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9 minutes ago, 37kitties said:

Many movies aren't - but few that take themselves as seriously as this one seems to are this reachy.

Whatever. You have your opinion. I have mine!

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13 minutes ago, Katie_G said:

After reading the comments here I may give Hollow Triumph another go.  I could have been just really tired.

It’s in the public domain, so you can find it online, but the prints vary in quality. (I would think that the print they showed on Noir Alley would be the best one out there there is.)

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3 hours ago, Hibi said:

I've always wondered why its always raining torrentially in films (even in LA!) I read recently it's because rain doesn't show up well on film so the rain machines are turned on full blast.

I was in a torrential rain one time in Los Angeles, and I was driving down Beverly Glen Boulevard which is one of those serpentine mountain roads. It was absolutely terrifying.

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I lived in Los Angeles for about five years and to this day I still have kind of a hard time driving in the rain.

*The single most terrifying fact about rain in Los Angeles is that over the many dry months tons of oil  and various chemicals accrue on the asphalt and the rain loosens them up and makes them  slick as owl s***.

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On 7/31/2021 at 1:42 PM, Moe Howard said:

I'm trying to recall if they agreed on any of the films being all that good. Body Heat ? I think they both liked that one, and I'd have to say it was probably best over all.

I with they'd shown Mulholland Falls. Although I'm not sure its Neo-Noir. It's more like Post Dated Noir.

 

17 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

It's more like Bizarro-noir.  Emphasis on the Bizarro.

 

9 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

in re: MULLHOLLAND FALLS

i remember this barely playing and BOMBING HARD in 1996, it never made it to my town and I have not seen the trailer (I don't think) til now.

I can see why it bombed- and that's not necessarily a diss on the film, which I (like almost everyone else on earth) have not seen. i just don't see it clicking with audiences then or now:   

 

Oh,  I was confused.  But maybe understandably.  See,  I got Mulholland Falls  mixed up  with  Mullholland Drive.  Hence my comment about "Bizarro Noir".  I don't think I've seen Mulholland Falls  ( but after seeing that trailer,  I wouldn't mind ),  but I've definitely seen Mulholland Drive,  and believe me,  it's bizarro world all r ight.  ( But I really like it.   I think. )

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14 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Mulholland Drive

Mulholland Drive is David Lynch, of course it's Bizarro. Eddie say's Mulholland Drive is "pretty damn noir if you ask me." No comment of the obviously noir Mulholland Falls.

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4 minutes ago, Moe Howard said:

Mulholland Drive is David Lynch, of course it's Bizarro. Eddie say's Mulholland Drive is "pretty damn noir if you ask me." No comment of the obviously noir Mulholland Falls.

Yeah,  I know it's David Lynch,  and I've seen quite a few of Lynch's films,  not to mention Twin Peaks  (the original series.)  So, yup,  agreed,  of course just about anything made by him is Bizarro   (one word for it.)   Although, come to think of it,  Mulholland Drive is probably the strangest thing David Lynch ever made.  Which is really saying something,  when we're talking about David Lynch.  And I kind of like the idea of that category,  Bizarro  Noiro (plus it rhymes.)

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On 8/1/2021 at 6:26 PM, laffite said:

Hollow Triumph is a hollow triumph in itself, if it be a triumph at all. For Noir fans only, who are so wedded to their taste that anything can be counted as good. The cast is a strong asset, if there be any. If Paul Henried is not a saving grace, then Joan Bennett surely must be. The ending reminded me of Algiers. That John Muller (no relation, I knew he would say that) is not recognized straightaway by anyone is perfectly ridiculous. But wait, this is noir, it's okay.  I slogged my way through it, only because it was Noir Alley. Eddie (that other Muller) was excruciatingly boring, for movie historians only.  Don't blink, you might miss the murder.

 

On 8/1/2021 at 7:44 PM, Katie_G said:

Hollow Triumph was so boring that I fell asleep. 

 

20 hours ago, Moe Howard said:

Well I liked it. So I salute all the disgruntled with a super gulp size Bronx cheer.

From Eddie's pre bumper I mistakenly assumed it was the brother that was the real shrink. THAT would have worked a little better with the look alike angle. Twins rather than some random doppelgänger. 

Whatever though. I like Joan Bennet, she gets extra credit for The Woman in the Window, which is excellent. And Hollow Triumph gets points for the Fotomat screw-up. Nice touch!

 

9 hours ago, Hibi said:

I've seen Hollow Triumph several times and I LOVE IT! So there! Yes, there are holes and implausibilities like any noir. Great performances from Joan Bennett and Henreid! Great photography from Alton, too.

Hey,  it's kind of fun doing all these multi-quotes,  a function I don't use very often.  I just included them all because it shows the differing opinions on this movie.

Now, moi,  I've seen Hollow Triumph  three times now.  The first time I tended to agree with lafitte and Katie,  , although I didn't dislike it so much as was just "meh"   about it.  The second time -- which, by the way,  was when Eddie first aired it on Noir  Alley,  I'm pretty sure this is the second time he's shown it there --  I liked it a little better,  but still thought it was just ok.

But this time !   I decided I really liked it,  and that it's very good.  I think I just missed some things about it on those other viewings.

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I'm doing a Lorna here, which is to say I'm writing two different posts about the same thing rather than one looong one.  Easier on the eyes, the brain,  and the attention  span that way.

Ok, first:  I have no problem with the "unbelievable"  phenomenon of two men looking exactly alike  -- in the same city, to boot !   I don't care,  I "go with" the implausibility of it because the story is entertaining and fits in other ways,  so I can exercise my well-used suspension of disbelief.  Plus,  as Hibi points out,  there are many noirs which are unrealistic,  and in fact,  there are many movies, period, that are  ( unrealistic.)  If everything else in the film is well-done,  acting, writing,  cinematography,  etc.,  I don't mind a little implausibility thing along the way.

Lots to like in Hollow Triumph: The performances,  especially Joan Bennett's.  Hibi's right,  it's about time TCM made her Star of the Month.  She's so good,  I enjoy her in every thing I've seen her in.  And she's especially good in this film.  That's partly because she's given such interesting  lines to say, and because she's a three-dimensional character.  Smart,  cynical,  quick,   yet somehow also sweet.   That final scene where she's looking for Henreid from the ship, hoping against hope that he'll turn up,  is heart-breaking.   You really want her to find  out that the man she thinks has let her down was killed, that he was in fact on his way to join her.  But of course we don't know if she ever does.

Henreid's good in this too, although once or twice he's just a leetle over-the-top, especially in his speech to Joan about how crummy life can be, or something.  But still,  I like this actor.  I enjoy his blond good looks and his Austrian accent.

I don't know how hard-core noir fans wouldn't  appreciate  some of the lines in this film,  especially Joan's  "It's a bitter little world" speech.  And the scene in which the brother talks to Henreid about how he always wanted to come out on top, no matter what he had to do to get there, all about how hard and self-centred he is,   also felt very noir to me.  

And ya gotta love John Alton's beautiful black and white cinematography,  so full of shadows and back streets and lamp light.   Plus the on location settings.  Like that Angel's Flight funicula   (sp?),  which , as others here have noted,  has appeared in quite a few other noirs. 

As for the "scar on the wrong side of the face" thing,  it's just a distraction,  you realize it doesn't really matter.  When we find out Henreid's character had a backwards negative,  we go,  "oh no, this is going to be bad" !  But nope,  nobody notices,    Except the cleaning lady.  It's nice the way John Muller is moved by the fact that she noticed,  she's the only one who did,   and he almost tenderly tells her so.

But it's true,  people don't notice those kinds of details in others, possibly because most people are too busy thinking about their own appearance to pay much attention to others'.   I didn't think it was corny that the film made a point of that,  that nobody noticed the scar was on the wrong cheek.  I kind of liked that nobody noticed -- not even Joan.  (although Joan definitely notices something's amiss with the good doctor...)

One more thing:  I'm disappointed that the two Paul Henreids never meet.   Ok,  the doctor gets into the car that John Muller's providing for him,  but he never even looks at Muller  (obnoxious snob,  you don't feel too sorry for him when he's offed.)    I wanted a scene where Muller's poking around in Bartok's office and the doctor walks in and encounters his doppelganger face-to-face.  That would have been fun.

I also think it's a little odd that nobody who knows about these two "twins",  unrelated as they are,  ever talks about how very strange this is,  and how could two people look so exactly alike when they're not twins,  etc, etc.  Joan and Muller himself just seem to accept it.  But then again, one thing I like about classic noirs is that they get in,  tell their story,   and get out,  usually in under 90 minutes.  A screenplay that included   philosophical speculations  on the strangeness of such an occurance  would serve no purpose to the story, and make it longer.  And we don't want that.

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3 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Yeah,  I know it's David Lynch,  and I've seen quite a few of Lynch's films,  not to mention Twin Peaks  (the original series.)  So, yup,  agreed,  of course just about anything made by him is Bizarro   (one word for it.)   Although, come to think of it,  Mulholland Drive is probably the strangest thing David Lynch ever made.  Which is really saying something,  when we're talking about David Lynch.  And I kind of like the idea of that category,  Bizarro  Noiro (plus it rhymes.)

Lost Highway is probably my favorite Lynch Noir. It's Noir from the Twilight Zone.

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4 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Yeah,  I know it's David Lynch,  and I've seen quite a few of Lynch's films,  not to mention Twin Peaks  (the original series.)  So, yup,  agreed,  of course just about anything made by him is Bizarro   (one word for it.)   Although, come to think of it,  Mulholland Drive is probably the strangest thing David Lynch ever made.  Which is really saying something,  when we're talking about David Lynch.  And I kind of like the idea of that category,  Bizarro  Noiro (plus it rhymes.)

It helps if you think of Mulholland Drive as Lynch's take on Carnival of Souls.

(...reportedly, Lynch has even cited the earlier film as his inspiration for his film and which is considered a "surrealist neo-noir")

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4 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

But still,  I like this actor.  I enjoy his blond good looks and his Austrian accent.

For some reason. several times through the film (like 4 or 5 times) looking at him brought to mind Kevin Spacey to me. Something about the way he looks out of his eyes or sets his mouth.

Or something.

I'm probably nuts - but I did feel this sensation.

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12 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

 

 

Oh,  I was confused.  But maybe understandably.  See,  I got Mulholland Falls  mixed up  with  Mullholland Drive.  Hence my comment about "Bizarro Noir".  I don't think I've seen Mulholland Falls  ( but after seeing that trailer,  I wouldn't mind ),  but I've definitely seen Mulholland Drive,  and believe me,  it's bizarro world all r ight.  ( But I really like it.   I think. )

Don't feel bad, I mix the two all the time.

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2 minutes ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

I used to think it was pronounced "MULL-HA-LOND", like three seperate words. 

That's how people in southern California pronounce it.

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14 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

I was in a torrential rain one time in Los Angeles, and I was driving down Beverly Glen Boulevard which is one of those serpentine mountain roads. It was absolutely terrifying.

I can imagine!

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28 minutes ago, Hibi said:

I can imagine!

it was veryverymuch like a waterslide. i don't think any of those roads through the hills have gutters or storm drains.

edit: like a waterslide that had been coated in motor oil.

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11 minutes ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

it was veryverymuch like a waterslide. i don't think any of those roads through the hills have gutters or storm drains.

Wow.

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36 minutes ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

it was veryverymuch like a waterslide. i don't think any of those roads through the hills have gutters or storm drains.

edit: like a waterslide that had been coated in motor oil.

Yuck.

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33 minutes ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

i don't think any of those roads through the hills have gutters or storm drains.

 

I think you're right. S Cal, usually gets some seasonal rain. Every once in a while it's biblical Noah's ark type rain. One year it was flash flood all the way down Laurel Canyon.  Mountains of brush from the hills was washed down and in huge piles in the tighter corners, cars were washed down. It was AWESOME!

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3 minutes ago, Moe Howard said:

One year it was flash flood all the way down Laurel Canyon.  Mountains of brush from the hills was washed down and in huge piles in the tighter corners, cars were washed down. It was AWESOME!

LITTLE RICHARD came floating by on the roof a Pink Mercedes-Benz screaming "GOODLAWD, SOMEBODY HELP ME! A-WOOOOOOOO!!!!! SHUT UP!!!"....

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