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15 hours ago, CinemaInternational said:

Mulholland Falls was actually pretty good...Melanie Griffith (who got an undeserved Razzie for it) was deeply touching

I wouldn’t say it’s pretty good, but I agree with you about Griffith’s Razzie award. She’s the only person in the film who seems to be invested in giving a real performance, It’s insulting that she was singled out as a weakness when  her scenes are just about the only good parts in the film....and Especially when Chaz Palminteri is as bad as he is in it. 

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1 hour ago, Thompson said:

The Man With the Golden Arm just aired.  I’ve tried to like this movie because the subject matter is right up my alley.  This movie stinks.  Frank Sinatra stinks, like he does in most movies.  Now we have Picnic, with another lame actor William Holden, who has no sense of rhythm.  Never understood his appeal.

The idea of "sense of rhythm" as it pertains to acting is interesting. Is that synonymous with "sense of timing."???? Or do you mean something perhaps a little different. This is not a jab or a joke, just curious.

 

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I watched Mulholland Drive about 15 or so years ago and didn't really understand it. I usually cover my arse by saying that well it was a long time ago. I am old enough now to realize that it most probably would not make any difference, although it might (to be absolutely fair to myself). I don't particularly like cryptic movies, which might serve to sabotage the understanding of them. Or perhaps I just lack the perspicacity. Ah, that's it, no doubt. :lol:

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1 hour ago, laffite said:

I watched Mulholland Drive about 15 or so years ago and didn't really understand it. I usually cover my arse by saying that well it was a long time ago. I am old enough now to realize that it most probably would not make any difference, although it might (to be absolutely fair to myself). I don't particularly like cryptic movies, which might serve to sabotage the understanding of them. Or perhaps I just lack the perspicacity. Ah, that's it, no doubt. :lol:

Well laffite, like I said earlier:

"It helps if you think of Mulholland Drive as Lynch's take on Carnival of Souls."

And I'll now add that this film "mesmerized"* (I guess might be the best word for it here) me.

(...and not just 'cause of the hot as hell Laura Hassing bein' in it either)

*mesmerized-past tense of mesmerize..defhold the attention of (someone) to the exclusion of all else or so as to transfix them.

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4 hours ago, Thompson said:

The Man With the Golden Arm just aired.  I’ve tried to like this movie because the subject matter is right up my alley.  This movie stinks.  Frank Sinatra stinks, like he does in most movies.  Now we have Picnic, with another lame actor William Holden, who has no sense of rhythm.  Never understood his appeal.

Wow,  you don't mince words, do you, Thompson?  While giving an unequivocal straight-shooting opinion is something everyone should feel free to do here,  I do think you might consider holding back a little on the  "this stinks"  declaration until maybe giving a film another chance.  I can't tell you how many times I've initially disliked a movie, only to change my mind about it upon a second or even a third viewing.

Both those films you cite,  and both those actors,  deserve respect.   The Man with the Golden Arm is a good movie, and all the actors in it, including Sinatra,  give fine performances.  Come on,  it does not "stink".  

Same with Picnic.   It may seem a little dated now,  and you can tell it's based on a play, but it's still a very well-done movie,  good production, interesting characters,  good acting.  And  William Holden is a talented actor.  I don't know what you mean by "no sense of rhythm". 

Frank Sinatra was fortunate to have had two major talents,  acting and singing.  I've always thought he was a fine actor,  although,  "that said",  of course his greatest gift was singing.  You shirley can't say he "had no sense of rhythm".

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I remember a movie I gave a second chance to and liked it more the second viewing:

DELIRIUM (1979)  Filmed in and around St. Louis, MO.  The first time I saw it I hated it; I did give it another try and enjoyed it more the 2nd time 'round.  The film was banned in the UK as a 'Video Nastie' for a while, but was passed in 1987 after approx. 15-17 seconds worth of footage was cut out.  → It seems the BBFC didn't like the topless woman being impaled by the spear . . . so that had to go for DELIRIUM to receive a classification from the almighty BBFC.   What a picky bunch!  BLOOD!  🩸

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6 hours ago, Thompson said:

Picnic, with another lame actor William Holden, who has no sense of rhythm.  Never understood his appeal.

Bill Holden was a fine actor, but he hated dancing,i think he danced in only 2 or 3 movies,he always ask for extra $ to dance as 'a stunt man',It was a real phobia for him If i remember well the Picnic dance routine was so  horrible for him,they had to move the camera around him to give the illusion of movement,i think they even had a rotating stage.I have seen  all of his films minus 4 or 5 early ones,Personnally I feel he looks too old for the part in Picnic,He looks much older than Robertson,Holden was only 35 at the time.

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just posted a review of MULHOLLAND FALLS in the I JUST WATCHED thread in case anyone is interested.

And if anyone wants to try and explain to me why a film that is 25 years old film has so many scratches and dust marks on the print, feel free! [certain scenes looked like the film it was shot on was 40 years old)

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17 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

FYI, MULHOLLAND FALLS is available, with commercials, on PLUTO TV

Still waiting for an answer about the fountain and Catholic Churches in Wilmington.

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18 hours ago, Hibi said:

No Catholic churches? (I know they are sparse in the south).

sorry, i got carried away watching MULHOLLAND FALLS and forgot...

we do have at least three Catholic churches, one just four blocks down the road from the fountain:

ST. MARYS (which also has an excellent private school)

it's also appeared in a few films:

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22 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

I wouldn’t say it’s pretty good, but I agree with you about Griffith’s Razzie award. She’s the only person in the film who seems to be invested in giving a real performance, It’s insulting that she was singled out as a weakness when  her scenes are just about the only good parts in the film....and Especially when Chaz Palminteri is as bad as he is in it. 

It was a very good performance, and I for one was deeply insulted that they gave her the Razzie because it was far too good for such treatment.

For the record, the others the Razzies had in Supporting Actress that year were Jami Gertz in Twister, Faye Dunaway in both The Chamber (a John Grisham adaptation where she played an alcoholic whose father was a killer on Death Row) and Dunston Checks In (a kid film involving an orangutan), Daryl Hannah in Too Much (a film where Antonio Banderes pretends to be two different men so he can try to woo Hannah and Melanie Griffith), and Teri Hatcher in two neo-noirs, Heaven's Prisoners and 2 Days in the Valley (where her violent catfight/assault scene with Charlize Theron culminating in one of them getting shot has become a kind of cult film legend)

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20 hours ago, Dargo said:

And I'll now add that this film "mesmerized"* (I guess might be the best word for it here) me.

Yeah, well, i guess I was sort of mesmerized myself. Or perhaps just numbed.

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22 hours ago, laffite said:

The idea of "sense of rhythm" as it pertains to acting is interesting. Is that synonymous with "sense of timing."???? Or do you mean something perhaps a little different. This is not a jab or a joke, just curious.

 

I've owned this DVD for over a decade and have never watched it- it just seems to come as an added-on bonus disc for nearly every sinatra concert or biography DVD i ever see in the stores.  It does seem to get mentioned quite often as a strong performance by Sinatra after winning his Oscar for acting.  Guess i'll need to finally watch it and make my own decision.

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1 minute ago, laffite said:

Yeah, well, i guess I was sort of mesmerized myself. Or perhaps just numbed.

Yeah, I get what you're sayin' here laffite, but in the case of this Lynch film, I wasn't so much "numbed" while watching it, but felt more "pulled into it" you might say.

(...btw, I do have to admit that after my first viewing of it years ago, I was immediately compelled to do an internet search of what others thought the meaning of the film might be, and because like yourself, I too was a bit perplexed by it...but then after reading someone's idea that it would make a great double feature with Carnival of Souls, it suddenly all came together for me)

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22 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

Chaz Palminteri

Unfair! Chaz is playing a dimwit. He did a great job!

And maybe the Razzies got confused like everyone else and thought it was Mulholland Drive. REALLY confused since Griffith wasn't in it!

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23 hours ago, laffite said:

I watched Mulholland Drive about 15 or so years ago and didn't really understand it. I usually cover my arse by saying that well it was a long time ago. I am old enough now to realize that it most probably would not make any difference, although it might (to be absolutely fair to myself). I don't particularly like cryptic movies, which might serve to sabotage the understanding of them. Or perhaps I just lack the perspicacity. Ah, that's it, no doubt. :lol:

Don't worry,  laffite,  I've never thought we're really supposed to understand them.  In fact,  when people try to explain David Lynch's works, I think it takes something away from them.  At the risk of sounding pretentious,  I don't think his films are meant to be figured out with a neat tidy explanation,  I think they're just meant to be experienced.

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19 hours ago, nakano said:

Bill Holden was a fine actor, but he hated dancing,i think he danced in only 2 or 3 movies,he always ask for extra $ to dance as 'a stunt man',It was a real phobia for him If i remember well the Picnic dance routine was so  horrible for him,they had to move the camera around him to give the illusion of movement,i think they even had a rotating stage.I have seen  all of his films minus 4 or 5 early ones,Personnally I feel he looks too old for the part in Picnic,He looks much older than Robertson,Holden was only 35 at the time.

As you  probably know, William Holden was a serious alcoholic.  I don't know when he started, but it must have been young,  because yes, by the time he was in his 30s  (  still relatively young),  he was very rough looking,  The hard drinking really took a toll on his looks.

It's too bad,  he was a very good-looking man,  and in his early films,  you can see he's an outright baby face !

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I think William Holden was a good actor, but due to his heavy drinking, he always had this 'tired' look to his face in a lot of his films.  He even said he wasn't crazy about playing the role of the drifter in "Picnic", because he thought he was too old for the part, but if you get a chance to work with the likes of Kim Novak and Rosalind Russell, it's probably tough to turn down a part, even if you don't think you're right for it.

Growing up, I never thought much of Frank Sinatra.  I could recognize his voice when he'd sing, but I didn't know how immersed he was in acting until TCM came along.  He's one of those people who are surprisingly good thespians who can carry a tune (like Jeannette MacDonald, Judy Garland, Dennis Morgan, and Howard Keel).  Sure, there are parts of "The Man With The Golden Arm" that I don't particularly care for, but the whole movie itself doesn't rate as an out-and-out stinker.   Even in movies we love to watch, there are probably scenes that make us cringe or have us saying, "If I were directing this flick, I would have shot it from this angle or had the man or woman say their lines this way.".

Now, having said all that....when TCM releases its October schedule, I sure hope "Scream of Fear" is on it!

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On 8/3/2021 at 6:06 PM, Dargo said:

"It helps if you think of Mulholland Drive as Lynch's take on Carnival of Souls."

Carnival of Souls in on youtube. It was also picked up by Criterion and is included in their line up on the Criterion Channel. Along with the complete movie are a number, about 10 or so, of outtakes. I watched a bit and was a little wary. But i won't reject it unseen, though I tell you true I am not a horror film fan. It's not long so maybe I could take it. You have to hand it to the filmmaker, he accomplished much with this film on a threadbare budget. Not to say necessarily that it is a great movie, it probably isn't, but it's popularity among fans and critic is remarkable, as well as cultists.

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1 hour ago, midwestan said:

He's one of those people who are surprisingly good thespians who can carry a tune (like Jeannette MacDonald, Judy Garland, Dennis Morgan, and Howard Keel). 

I have to chide you here. As you surely know he was a singer before he was a thespian. In fact, he is not by rights a thespian. He is a singer who crossed over into movies. To say that Frank Sinatra could carry a tune is the understatement of the century. I don't know how old you are but Frank Sinatra is considered King of Pop in the middle of the last century.

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3 hours ago, midwestan said:

 

Growing up, I never thought much of Frank Sinatra.  I could recognize his voice when he'd sing, but I didn't know how immersed he was in acting until TCM came along.  He's one of those people who are surprisingly good thespians who can carry a tune (like Jeannette MacDonald, Judy Garland, Dennis Morgan, and Howard Keel).  Sure, there are parts of "The Man With The Golden Arm" that I don't particularly care for, but the whole movie itself doesn't rate as an out-and-out stinker.   Even in movies we love to watch, there are probably scenes that make us cringe or have us saying, "If I were directing this flick, I would have shot it from this angle or had the man or woman say their lines this way.".

Now, having said all that....when TCM releases its October schedule, I sure hope "Scream of Fear" is on it!

I like your comments here.  However, not to be argumentative,  but Frank Sinatra was so much more than "a thespian who could carry a tune". That's an understatement !  Sinatra is often regarded as the best singer of the 20th century,  certainly a contender for best popular singer  ( as opposed to opera and other classical style singing....)   He is on a level far removed from actors like Dennis Morgan  ( and even Howard Keel.)

And his acting skills played into his recordings.  He does so much more than "carry a tune",  he sounds as though he lives the songs he sings, maybe that's where the acting comes in,  he makes every song a little drama    ( or comedy, or love story, whatever the lyrics require.)  Plus, not only did he have a great voice ,  and not only did he use it to powerful dramatic effect in his music,   but many other singers and musicians have commented on his phrasing,  which was inventive and unique.   In fact,  Miles Davis admired Frank Sinatra's phrasing so much, he imitated it in his own playing.

Sorry,  I didn't mean to jump on you like that,  I'm sure you were just observing that Sinatra was a good actor who was also a singer.  I guess I was just saying,  it's more the other way around,  he was a great singer who was also a good actor.

EDIT:   I posted the above before I saw Laffite's post,  which basically says the same thing but is less verbose.

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13 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

 

It's too bad,  he was a very good-looking man,  and in his early films,  you can see he's an outright baby face !

The drinking started early.He lacked confidence.He was a beautiful man but you can see the difference in less than 2 years between Sabrina and Picnic.I know one was in B &Wand the other in color but it is very apparent even with shadows etc in Sabrina he looks 10 years younger than in Picnic. When he died at 63 he looked 20 years older unfortunately.

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15 hours ago, Moe Howard said:

Unfair! Chaz is playing a dimwit. He did a great job!

And maybe the Razzies got confused like everyone else and thought it was Mulholland Drive. REALLY confused since Griffith wasn't in it!

actually, I think Chaz Palminteri was playing his trademark "gentle/artistic/possibly even autistic** hoodlum"  very much in the spirit of DAMON RUNYON's plays and Palminteri's Oscar Nominated performance in BULLETS OVER BROADWAY.

(full disclosure, I hate Damon Runyon and BULLETS OVER BROADWAY.)

I did feel like I could see the seeds for the later hit ANALYZE THIS being sprouted within CHAZZ'S character in MULHOLLAND FALLS, although DeNiro got the lead in that movie and Palminteri was relegated to support.

THE RAZZIES really, REALLY had it in for MELANIE GRIFFITH, who by the time she did MULHOLLAND FALLS in 1996, was coming off a string of bombs that made DRESDEN, 1945 look minor in comparison (SHINING THROUGH, A STRANGER AMONG US, the BORN YESTERDAY remake...) after this movie she did a couple straight to video titles, which had to have hurt her ego.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, by 1996, NICK NOLTE had also had a string of huge bombs as well- casting him and GRIFFITH in a film together at that moment was a risk

**no offense at all intended by that remark, I just see traits in his characters that strike me that way.

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