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16 hours ago, CinemaInternational said:

It was a very good performance, and I for one was deeply insulted that they gave her the Razzie because it was far too good for such treatment.

For the record, the others the Razzies had in Supporting Actress that year were Jami Gertz in Twister, Faye Dunaway in both The Chamber (a John Grisham adaptation where she played an alcoholic whose father was a killer on Death Row) and Dunston Checks In (a kid film involving an orangutan), Daryl Hannah in Too Much

OMG, I forgot all about DUNSTON CHECKS IN.

Also, if I may kindly offer a correction, the title is actually TWO MUCH, not TOO MUCH. (apparently the makers missed no chance to be stupid.)

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14 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

It's too bad,  he was a very good-looking man,  and in his early films,  you can see he's an outright baby face !

Being a baby face would start me drinking too.

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Did you see Chaz P. in the L&O Organized Crime Unit as the villains father?    He is also in The Usual Suspects (which I can't watch because of Kevin Spacey).  I saw A Bronx Tale and it was a pretty good movie.  A Stranger Among Us wasn't bad (but she had a good director).  I always confuse Mulholland Falls with Mulholland Drive (which put Naomi Watts on the path to stardom).  Mullholland drive made me squeamish and in need of a shower.  But then, when Twin Peaks was on TV, after several seasons, it seems to have lost its way.

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8 minutes ago, chaya bat woof woof said:

Did you see Chaz P. in the L&O Organized Crime Unit as the villains father?   

I did not, haven't seen any of the episodes (this is its first season of LAW AND ORDER: ORGANIZED CRIME, right?)

...I've really drifted away from Network TV.

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On 8/3/2021 at 7:38 PM, LornaHansonForbes said:


Also for a film from 1996, the print of MULHOLLAND FALLS has a surprising amount of marks and scratches on it! 

The print I saw of that film on HBO last year was a pristine new digital print, but its possible that the print on Pluto might have had a lot of scratches because of the fact that the film was released by MGM. MGM had a terrible time of it in the 90s; their only hits in the entire decade were the three James Bond films, Thelma and Louise, The Birdcage, The Thomas Crown Affair remake, The Cutting Edge, and Leaving Las Vegas. Finances were so bad there in the mid 90s that executives had to lay all their bills on the boardroom table and decide which ones they should pay first and which ones they would have to hold off until later because the tills were empty.

Mulholland was an expensive film that ended up at MGM to finish off a five film contract signed with Richard Zanuck's company, which had been signed early in the 90s because no other studio wanted to touch his wife's directorial debut (and only theatrical directorial effort): 1991's evils of drug addiction film Rush, starring Jennifer Jason Leigh and Jason Patric.  Rush got strong reviews, but died at the box office. it is probably best known today for being the source of Eric Clapton's megahit "Tears in Heaven" which won the Grammy for Recording of the year, even though the Oscars didn't nominate it for Best Original Song.

The other three films in the Zanuck package were the comedy Clean Slate with Dana Carvey, Valeria Golino, and James Earl Jones, the western Wild Bill with Jeff Bridges, Ellen Barkin, John Hurt, Diane Lane, Keith Carradite, Christina Applegate, David Arquette, and Bruce Dern, and the coming-of-age saga Rich in Love with Kathryn Erbe, Albert Finney, Kyle MacLachlan, Alfre Woodard, Piper Laurie, Ethan Hawke, Suzy Amis, and Jill Clayburgh.

On 8/3/2021 at 7:40 PM, LornaHansonForbes said:

DUNE has such a delightfully LIVELY bad guy that the film really suffers when he’s not on the screen, everyone else is so pious and sedate...

I assume you are referring to Kenneth McMillan as the oft-floating Baron with boils all over the side of his face. Definitely a very colorful performance and memorable. The whole film needed a bit more liveliness. I did like Francesca Annis in it , and having Kyle MacLachlan around is always good, but the film hustled some people on and offscreen so quickly (Brad Dourif, Virginia Madsen, Linda Hunt, Dean Stockwell, Richard Jordan, Patrick Stuart, Max Von Sydow) that it made little sense to hire big name character actor stars. So little moments of either goofs or quirkiness provided the only charm really in the film, such as the line of Sian Phillip's bald cap showing on screen, little Alicia Witt's headpiece slipping a little bit to show she wasn't really bald like her character was supposed to be, or Sting's emerging from a steam bath and stretching like a malignant feline.

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Incidentally, some  other neo-noirs, arranged chronologically, that might have been good picks for the Noir Alley series that just finished.....

Experiment in Terror (1962)

Lilith (1964)

Bunny Lake is Missing (1965)

Pretty Poison (1968)

Mississippi Mermaid (1969)

The Liberation of LB Jones (1970)

I Walk the Line (1970)

Play Misty for Me (1971)

Charley Varrick (1973)

The long Goodbye (1973)

Thieves Like Us (1974)

The Conversation (1974)

The Parallax View (1974)

Obsession (1976)

Last Embrace (1979)

Prince of the City (1981)

True Confessions (1981)

Hammett (1982)

Still of the night (1982)

Witness (1985)

Blue Velvet (1986)

The morning After (1986)

At Close Range (1986)

The Bedroom Window (1987)

Black Widow (1987)

House of Games (1987)

Stormy Monday (1988)

Sea of Love (1989)

The Grifters (1990)

Internal Affairs (1990)

Miller's Crossing (1990)

The Two Jakes (1990)

Dead Again (1991)

The Silence of the Lambs (1991)

Final Anaylsis (1992, a bit goofy toward the end but I like how it pulled the rug out from under the viewers feet)

Flesh and Bone (1993)

In the line of Fire (1993)

To Die For (1995, yes its a noir comedy, but Nicole Kidman's performance here is one of the best modern femme fatales)

Devil in a Blue Dress (1995)

Lone Star (1996)

Jackie Brown (1997)

LA Confidential (1997)

Gattaca (1997)

A Simple Plan (1998)

Twilight (1998)

out of Sight (1998)

The Man Who Wasn't There (2001)

Road to Perdition (2002)

Mystic River (2003)

Hollywoodland (2006)

Zodiac (2007)

Before the Devil Knows You're Dead (2007)

Gone Baby Gone (2007)

Bad Times at the El Royale (2018)

Motherless Brooklyn (2019)

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8 hours ago, ElCid said:

Apparently this thread is now about Noir in general and no longer about Noir Alley. 

I don't set the rules, but is not permissible to do that? Especially since Noir Alley, the program, is dark for this month?

I yield to any decree the OP might give out and/or whatever group conscience might indicate.

IMO I would hope that all things noir might open game.

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30 minutes ago, laffite said:

I don't set the rules, but is not permissible to do that? Especially since Noir Alley, the program, is dark for this month?

I yield to any decree the OP might give out and/or whatever group conscience might indicate.

IMO I would hope that all things noir might open game.

I look at thread titles and while many "branch out," it just seems that if people want to start a more general topic, one of them would create a thread.  Example:  Noir.  Also, there is already a forum for Noir on this site.

I go to this thread and think there is discussion re: Noir Alley as presented on TCM, but then discover many, many posts that have nothing to do with Noir Alley.

I created a thread to discuss the Neo-Noir specials on TCM, but then most people began discussing it here.

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44 minutes ago, CinemaInternational said:

Incidentally, some  other neo-noirs, arranged chronologically, that might have been good picks for the Noir Alley series that just finished.....

 

Actually, that was the Neo-Noir specials that TCM had last month, not Noir Alley.

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On 8/3/2021 at 10:02 PM, misswonderly3 said:

Wow,  you don't mince words, do you, Thompson?  While giving an unequivocal straight-shooting opinion is something everyone should feel free to do here,  I do think you might consider holding back a little on the  "this stinks"  declaration until maybe giving a film another chance.  I can't tell you how many times I've initially disliked a movie, only to change my mind about it upon a second or even a third viewing.

Both those films you cite,  and both those actors,  deserve respect.   The Man with the Golden Arm is a good movie, and all the actors in it, including Sinatra,  give fine performances.  Come on,  it does not "stink".  

Same with Picnic.   It may seem a little dated now,  and you can tell it's based on a play, but it's still a very well-done movie,  good production, interesting characters,  good acting.  And  William Holden is a talented actor.  I don't know what you mean by "no sense of rhythm". 

Frank Sinatra was fortunate to have had two major talents,  acting and singing.  I've always thought he was a fine actor,  although,  "that said",  of course his greatest gift was singing.  You shirley can't say he "had no sense of rhythm".

Sinatra boors me down to the bone.  Now I have to admit that one with Laurence Harvey and Angela Lansbury was good.  Sinatra playing these army guys is ridiculous because he’s so little, what a 28 inch waist?  Most of the time he looks like a cartoon to me. I think Tony Bennett is a good singer, Frank does nothing for me. And isn’t that what it’s all about?  You say tomato and I say something else.  Ray Milland was not a drinker but he portrayed probably the best true alcoholic in The Lost Weekend that exists on film.  He does this with a sense of rhythm.  Why do you like a particular song?  What sets it ahead of other songs?  It’s the rhythm, but it’s subtle, like singing or playing behind the beat, on beat, but behind it.  The Man With the Golden Arm has none of that magic going on.  It is dull.  Gene Hackman as Popeye Doyle knows how to play the junkie way way better.  He’s got a sense of rhythm about him.  Elvis Presley did too, but he couldn’t act his way out of a burlap bag.  Now I’m confused as to where I was going with this — oh yeah,  “we are all a prisoner of our own perspective.”

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11 hours ago, 37kitties said:

Being a baby face would start me drinking too.

Oh,  I don't know.  By  "baby face"  I just meant,  really young-looking.  Here he is  (William Holden) at the age of 21 in Invisible Stripes.  He looked even younger than 21 in that film,  and very cute.

image.jpeg.c1a233bad01c3d661f23133d0a0ee780.jpeg

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35 minutes ago, Thompson said:

Sinatra boors me down to the bone.  Now I have to admit that one with Laurence Harvey and Angela Lansbury was good.  Sinatra playing these army guys is ridiculous because he’s so little, what a 28 inch waist?  Most of the time he looks like a cartoon to me. I think Tony Bennett is a good singer, Frank does nothing for me. And isn’t that what it’s all about?  You say tomato and I say something else.  Ray Milland was not a drinker but he portrayed probably the best true alcoholic in The Lost Weekend that exists on film.  He does this with a sense of rhythm.  Why do you like a particular song?  What sets it ahead of other songs?  It’s the rhythm, but it’s subtle, like singing or playing behind the beat, on beat, but behind it.  The Man With the Golden Arm has none of that magic going on.  It is dull.  Gene Hackman as Popeye Doyle knows how to play the junkie way way better.  He’s got a sense of rhythm about him.  Elvis Presley did too, but he couldn’t act his way out of a burlap bag.  Now I’m confused as to where I was going with this — oh yeah,  “we are all a prisoner of our own perspective.”

Sorry,  my above post was a bit snarky...and clearly it was a typo,  not a spello   (  "boors". )    I hope.

You're right in that taste, whether in films,  music,  or anything else,  is personal and subjective,  so,  yeah,  "to-may-to,  to-mah-to".  

BUT  !  A person can acknowledge that something -  a film or song or in this case,  a singer -   is good, has quality,  even if they don't enjoy it personally. I get that Frank's singing  "does nothing for you",  but to dismiss him , as you seem to be doing,  as just indifferently talented ,  is just silly.  You don't have to like his style to acknowledge that he is talented,  just not for you.

Hmm...I can't stand  Motley Crue ,  metal is not for me,   but I would not dismiss them as untalented just because I personally don't enjoy their music.  (Just an example, I picked that band at random.)

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13 hours ago, ElCid said:

Apparently this thread is now about Noir in general and no longer about Noir Alley. 

But that's ok,    isn't it ?   It's a fun thread  where we can discuss all noir,   ya got a problem with that?  😜

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6 hours ago, CinemaInternational said:

Incidentally, some  other neo-noirs, arranged chronologically, that might have been good picks for the Noir Alley series that just finished.....

Twilight (1998)

 

"When can you live forever, what do you live for?"

Oh, wait, that's TWILIGHT (2008) . . . 

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15 hours ago, CinemaInternational said:

Incidentally, some  other neo-noirs, arranged chronologically, that might have been good picks for the Noir Alley series that just finished.....

Experiment in Terror (1962)

Lilith (1964)

Bunny Lake is Missing (1965)

Pretty Poison (1968)

Mississippi Mermaid (1969)

The Liberation of LB Jones (1970)

I Walk the Line (1970)

Play Misty for Me (1971)

Charley Varrick (1973)

The long Goodbye (1973)

Thieves Like Us (1974)

The Conversation (1974)

The Parallax View (1974)

Obsession (1976)

Last Embrace (1979)

Prince of the City (1981)

True Confessions (1981)

Hammett (1982)

Still of the night (1982)

Witness (1985)

Blue Velvet (1986)

The morning After (1986)

At Close Range (1986)

The Bedroom Window (1987)

Black Widow (1987)

House of Games (1987)

Stormy Monday (1988)

Sea of Love (1989)

The Grifters (1990)

Internal Affairs (1990)

Miller's Crossing (1990)

The Two Jakes (1990)

Dead Again (1991)

The Silence of the Lambs (1991)

Final Anaylsis (1992, a bit goofy toward the end but I like how it pulled the rug out from under the viewers feet)

Flesh and Bone (1993)

In the line of Fire (1993)

To Die For (1995, yes its a noir comedy, but Nicole Kidman's performance here is one of the best modern femme fatales)

Devil in a Blue Dress (1995)

Lone Star (1996)

Jackie Brown (1997)

LA Confidential (1997)

Gattaca (1997)

A Simple Plan (1998)

Twilight (1998)

out of Sight (1998)

The Man Who Wasn't There (2001)

Road to Perdition (2002)

Mystic River (2003)

Hollywoodland (2006)

Zodiac (2007)

Before the Devil Knows You're Dead (2007)

Gone Baby Gone (2007)

Bad Times at the El Royale (2018)

Motherless Brooklyn (2019)

Oh wow, THANKS FOR THIS LIST!

my remarks in re: some of your carefully curated soggetos:

Bunny Lake is Missing (1965)- the messageboards are a 80-20 split on this one, with me being in the minority that ACTUALLY LIKES IT (I also was surprised myself as I am not a CAROL LYNLEY fan.)

Pretty Poison (1968)- Recentlyish saw this on YOUTUBE (PRISTINE PRINT, GORGEOUS FILM), but I was overall let-down by it. In his book ALTERNATE OSCARS , DANNY PEARY argued that TUESDAY WELD should've won BEST ACTRESS over HEPBURN AND STREISAND IN 1968. I like the book, but for this entry, I make my skeptical Nigerian child meme face.

The Liberation of LB Jones (1970)- this was featured in the book BAD MOVIES WE LOVE. It is on amazon prime for free and I made it about 20 minutes in. it's like IN THE HEAT OF THE NIGHT has been re-imagined as a tacky, foul-mouthed drive-in movie directed by (checks note) HOLY S***, WILLIAM WYLER????????.

Thieves Like Us (1974)- I highly recommend the source novel for this movie, as for the movie, I have never seen it, and was searching for it yesterday. Unless it's on DVD, I think it is totally unavailable on any streaming service and I don't know if TCM has ever shown it.

Prince of the City (1981)- I have not seen it, but it is my understanding that TREAT WILLIAMS is good in this. (see: skeptical Nigerian child meme)

Hammett (1982)- also have not seen, but FREDERIC FORREST was cute.

The morning After (1986)- was recently posted on youtube in full.

Black Widow (1987)-I had forgotten this one! shot by CONRAD HALL, it is sposed to be STUNNING.

Internal Affairs (1990)- RICHARD GERE decides to act and HE SUCCEEDS!!!!!!!!!!!! (THIRTY YEARS LATER AND THIS [as yet one-time] FEAT STILL STUNS ME.)

Dead Again (1991)- IT'S TACKY, but I love it.

Final Anaylsis (1992, a bit goofy toward the end but I like how it pulled the rug out from under the viewers feet)- speaking of TACKY, yes, BUT I LOVE IT TO PIECES. ANY FILM WHERE HAIR EXTENSIONS BECOME A MAJOR PLOT POINT IS FOR ME.

Lone Star (1996)- I hated this movie, although I do like saying the title like RICK MORANIS in SPACEBALLS.

LA Confidential (1997)- love love looooove this one tho.

 

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10 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

But that's ok,    isn't it ?   It's a fun thread  where we can discuss all noir,   ya got a problem with that?  😜

Actually I do since I am interested in Noir Alley.  While I do like Noir movies,  this thread now discusses a very wide range of topics tangentially related to Noir.  I don't have time to scroll through all the posts to find than none of them are related to Noir Alley.

Why not start a thread called All Noir?

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On 8/4/2021 at 8:53 PM, laffite said:

I have to chide you here. As you surely know he was a singer before he was a thespian. In fact, he is not by rights a thespian. He is a singer who crossed over into movies. To say that Frank Sinatra could carry a tune is the understatement of the century. I don't know how old you are but Frank Sinatra is considered King of Pop in the middle of the last century.

Yeah, I probably should have said he was a popular singer who had surprisingly good chops when it came to acting!  Bing Crosby falls into that mold too.  There's something about people who made their marks as singers (or dancers too) who come off as sounding and acting very natural on screen.  It looks easy when somebody else does it right, but much more difficult  if we tried to imagine ourselves playing a  particular role.  And then, if we were in a scene on a set, could we take direction easily with dialog or movements to make the director happy, or would we get exasperated?

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2 hours ago, ElCid said:

Actually I do since I am interested in Noir Alley.  While I do like Noir movies,  this thread now discusses a very wide range of topics tangentially related to Noir.  I don't have time to scroll through all the posts to find than none of them are related to Noir Alley.

Why not start a thread called All Noir?

Well,   I  don't have time to check more than one thread about my favourite type of movie.  I like it that "all things noir"  can come up and be discussed on this thread.  I don't want to be scrolling around on the forums to read about different noir films,  just because some of them weren't aired on the specific program "Noir Alley".

But you're right in that stuff comes up on this thread that I'm not that interested in.  My solution is to just skim those posts,  or better yet,    if I think it's about something I don't care to read I just scan the first few words and then move on.  There's nothing that says you have to read each and every post on this thread, and if it's not about a film that interests you,  don't take the time to read it. Problem solved.

I just don't really see it as an issue that more than the actual "Noir Alley" movies are discussed here.  

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34 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

 ...There's nothing that says you have to read each and every post on this thread, and if it's not about a film that interests you...

Yes, actually there is, MissW.

It's right in Section-7 of the Rules of Conduct Bylaws, although of course, most people and such as yourself, don't seem to know this.

(...I had this added into it back around 2015, and when it seemed too many people were skimming over some of my postings around here, and EVEN the rare ones in which I wasn't trying to make some kind'a joke and was actually being serious and made a damn good point about something in it!)

;)

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Now now, don't be "sad" here, Cid. You can still skim through these threads around here if ya want.

(...Section-7 of the Rules of Conduct Bylaws is seldom if ever enforced, ya know)  ;)

LOL

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52 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Now now, don't be "sad" here, Cid. You can still skim through these threads around here if ya want.

(...Section-7 of the Rules of Conduct Bylaws is seldom if ever enforced, ya know)  ;)

LOL

What about “The Sanity Clause”?

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25 minutes ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

What about “The Sanity Clause”?

;)

Eeh! You no fool ME! There'a AIN'T no Sanity Clause!

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I think if we could only discuss Eddie's one film per week, and none this month, this thread would fall to the back pages.  I like having it as kind of a Noir Central that includes neo noir and also discusses Eddie's movie of the week when he gets back.

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