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7 minutes ago, 37kitties said:

You didn't like that dramatization of the Scopes trial, huh?

Not sure how accurate a representation of the real trial it was, but it seemed fairly entertaining for the time in which it was made.

I wonder what they'd do with it if they made it now.

 

Inherit The Wind has been produced several times, I assume always the same. As drama it's okay. It's preachy as hell. As history it's distorted. 

I had a discussion with a guy on Twitter who said my criticism of it isn't fair, because neither the play nor the movies claim historical accuracy. But that's because they can't. What I find dishonest is that it lets people assume it is accurate, as your description of it as the "that dramatization of the Scopes trial" shows. 

And I hate seeing a talent like March portray a caricature. 

But A&C were big in their day. I mean with adults too, not just kids at the Saturday matinee. Comedy is always of it's time.  They are nostalgia now but they were fresh then. 

 

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4 minutes ago, 37kitties said:

From the standpoint of Bible belief, do you mean?

From the standpoint of simple history, but the playwrights probably misquoted scripture, too. I don't know. 

 

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12 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

I started watching FAREWELL MY LOVELY but couldn't get into it -- fell asleep about a half hour in, which was astounding to me because I'm a Mitchum fan and appreciate MURDER MY SWEET.   Bob frankly looked bored and tired.   Sylvia Miles was the only one in my limited viewing time who added any spark.

 

12 hours ago, Dargo said:

I've watched this one a couple of times myself and you're right, Bronxie. Mitchum looked not only "bored and tired" but by 1975 was too old to then play Marlowe at age 58, and of which he looked every bit of if not older.

And while watching it those two times, I also thought how lucky Dick Powell was that in 1944, Mitchum would still be a relatively unknown actor for a couple more years and so Powell, who I do believe is excellent in the '44 version, would get the part for which Mitchum was really born to play.

(...but once again, when he was 30 years younger...or heck, even say 15 years younger)

I used to feel the same way about Mitchum in Farewell My Lovely. He's too old, too bad he didn't play the role when he was younger.

But, upon seeing the film again, I changed my mind. I now see his performance for what it is, Mitchum as an older Marlowe. Sure he's slower. We all are as we get older but his very weariness is exactly what you would expect of a "knight of the mean streets" who has been around them all his life. Mitchum still seems a tough guy who's seen a lot, but with a streak of idealism still lurking beneath the surface. Having said that I'm, glad they cut back on the romantic scenes between him and Charlotte Rampling because too much of that, with the obvious age difference, would have come off as creepy.

But. along with Sylvia Miles' memorable turn, Jack O'Halloran, physically imposing as he may be, brings a surprising vulnerability to the Moose Malloy character. And, of course, David Shire's classy jazzy musical score adds immeasurably to the film's atmosphere. It speaks to all who have experienced lonely nights in the big city.

 

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14 minutes ago, 37kitties said:

Darwin's theory of evolution versus Bible theology was not the issue?

That was the topic but it wasn't the point. The ACLU wanted a test case for a Tennessee law, so they recruited Scopes, who no one had ever said "boo!" to about what he taught in his classroom. (Another very well-known case I really shouldn't name got a similar start.)

If you're interested in a scholarly look at the question of authenticity here is a 1997 piece from First Things that you might find interesting.  This is the thesis sentence. 

"While Inherit the Wind remains faithful to the broad outlines of the historical events it portrays, it flagrantly distorts the details, and neither the fictionalized names nor the cover of artistic license can excuse what amounts to an ideologically motivated hoax."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, LuckyDan said:

While Inherit the Wind remains faithful to the broad outlines of the historical events it portrays

Sounds pretty good to me - for a movie.

Would you expect a two-hour piece of screen entertainment to be a doctorate exploration of every specific point of contention?

'Cause Hollywood never did that - not then and probably not now.

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13 hours ago, Moe Howard said:

EXCELLANT! Season 2 Episode one. Frank Sinatra's "It Was a Very Good Year". 

Where are you in the series.

I'm about halfway through Season 3.  It is an excellent series,  exceptionally good production values,  acting,  camera-work,  character development,  stories.

But I am finding the extreme,  intense violence -- including sometimes sexual violence --hard to take.  I've never seen such graphic stuff,  and I've seen a lot of gangster movies and films that are generally regarded as "violent".  

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2 hours ago, LuckyDan said:

And infinitely more honest about what it is. 

 

2 hours ago, 37kitties said:

You didn't like that dramatization of the Scopes trial, huh?

Not sure how accurate a representation of the real trial it was, but it seemed fairly entertaining for the time in which it was made.

I wonder what they'd do with it if they made it now.

 

But why are these two posts here,  they're not even from this thread.  They're not even about noir.  Is it some kind of glitch in the system?

edit:  I think there is.   A glitch in the system.  Entire posts from some other thread have found their way into the Noir Alley thread. Weird.

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1 hour ago, misswonderly3 said:

I'm about halfway through Season 3.  It is an excellent series,  exceptionally good production values,  acting,  camera-work,  character development,  stories.

But I am finding the extreme,  intense violence -- including sometimes sexual violence --hard to take.  I've never seen such graphic stuff,  and I've seen a lot of gangster movies and films that are generally regarded as "violent".  

 

1 hour ago, misswonderly3 said:

But why are these two posts here,  they're not even from this thread.  They're not even about noir.  Is it some kind of glitch in the system?

edit:  I think there is.   A glitch in the system.  Entire posts from some other thread have found their way into the Noir Alley thread. Weird.

Yep. The noir alley thread has been invaded.

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37 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

 

 

But why are these two posts here,  they're not even from this thread.  They're not even about noir.  Is it some kind of glitch in the system?

edit:  I think there is.   A glitch in the system.  Entire posts from some other thread have found their way into the Noir Alley thread. Weird.

Yeah, I'm confused. For a brief, shining moment I thought ABBOTT AND COSTELLO had starred in a version of INHERIT THE WIND...

either way, any publicity is good publicity and the thread is right on the verge of reaching page 420.

 

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On 8/5/2021 at 12:34 PM, chaya bat woof woof said:

Did you see Chaz P. in the L&O Organized Crime Unit as the villains father?    He is also in The Usual Suspects (which I can't watch because of Kevin Spacey).  I saw A Bronx Tale and it was a pretty good movie.  A Stranger Among Us wasn't bad (but she had a good director).  I always confuse Mulholland Falls with Mulholland Drive (which put Naomi Watts on the path to stardom).  Mullholland drive made me squeamish and in need of a shower.  But then, when Twin Peaks was on TV, after several seasons, it seems to have lost its way.

Why would you not be able to watch  The Usual Suspects  "because of Kevin Spacey"  ?  The things Spacey is alleged to have done  ( and probably did)  in his personal life have nothing to do with the films he was in, nor his performances in them.   I just don't get this thing some people have where they can't watch a movie because one of the actors in it did something in their private life that was bad.   The work they did is a separate thing from their private actions.

Example from a long time ago:  Apparently Beethoven had a thing for one of his teenage female music students,  and would sometimes even give a piano lesson clad only in his bathrobe,  which must have made the young woman uncomfortable.  By today's standards this would mean that he would be reviled and "cancelled".   So,  given the inappropriateness of his behaviour,  should we no longer listen to any music by Beethoven?

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11 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Why would you not be able to watch  The Usual Suspects  "because of Kevin Spacey"  ?  The things Spacey is alleged to have done  ( and probably did)  in his personal life have nothing to do with the films he was in, nor his performances in them. 

Exactly. So what if he's homosexual - he's a darn good actor.

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22 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Why would you not be able to watch  The Usual Suspects  "because of Kevin Spacey"  ?  The things Spacey is alleged to have done  ( and probably did)  in his personal life have nothing to do with the films he was in, nor his performances in them.   I just don't get this thing some people have where they can't watch a movie because one of the actors in it did something in their private life that was bad.   The work they did is a separate thing from their private actions.

While I'm also able to view someone's work separate from their private actions,   I have seen people at this forum that do "boycott" a person that is alive and their reasoning is that they don't wish to enrich that person.      While I understand this reasoning,   I still believe it is over-the-top;   E.g.   How much money does an actor like Spacey receive when someone watches a movie made many-years ago that he was in?      I suspect not much,  if anything at all.   

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14 hours ago, Cigarjoe cellph said:

Another PS plus, Farewell My Lovely also has the great hard boiled author Jim Thompson in a cameo as Charlotte Rampling's judge husband. 😎

All of his books were out of print when he died I’m pretty sure.  He’s good, just like Eddie and his obsession with saving his films, if no book publisher publishes the book again then it’s lost.  I guess with everything on the internet now it’s a somewhat different world.

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1 hour ago, 37kitties said:

Exactly. So what if he's homosexual - he's a darn good actor.

As I suspect  ( no pun intended ) you know, the problems around Kevin Spacey's reputation were not about whether he was gay or not.   (  He did come out as gay shortly after the first allegations against him,  but that isn't the issue. Who cares? )

The problematic  nature of the allegations was basically the same as the whole "MeToo" movement's concerns,  it's just a moot point that in this case the alleged would-be molester was a gay man.   As far as I understand it,  the issues around Spacey involved accusations of his propositioning young male actors he was working with,  some of them underage.  His ruined career was not the result of his being a man hitting on other men,   it was a result of his "sexually inappropriate behaviour", whether with males or females is beside the point.

However, to get back to the original discussion about him,   whatever Kevin Spacey or any other actor or artist did or does in their personal life does not affect my decision whether to watch a film they were in, or listen to a recording they made,  or whatever it may be.

I probably have limits to this,  I'm just not sure what they'd be .  I know I am troubled when I listen to any of the Beach Boys songs that homicidal maniac Charles Mansen was involved in.   So I guess I'm inconsistent.

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Just now, chaya bat woof woof said:

I can stand a few minutes of Spacey in Working Girl, but I can't separate him from the rape accusations (I do not care about his homosexuality) and he plays such a key role in The Usual Suspects.

I do not know the details of the accusations against him.  If it was indeed rape, then that is serious.  I'd just heard that he sexually hit on young men whether his advances were wanted or not.

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Spacey didn't rape anyone. Nor did he attempt to rape anyone.

He did try to get with some teens of his gender, but that's what pretty nearly all homosexuals do. The homosexual culture understands this. And homosexuals of 16 are pretty happy about it, generally.

Well, what if the teen isn't homosexual and doesn't want to have a homosexual experience, you may ask.

Simple - they say "no, I don't swing that way". The end.

"Rape" - no, it's not.

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1 hour ago, misswonderly3 said:

So I guess I'm inconsistent.

Ralph Waldo Emerson says in his essay on self-reliance, "...to be misunderstood is to be great." Could it not then be true that to be inconsistent is to be great. Therefore misswonderly3, you are great!

Of course we knew that already. We don't need Ralph to know that.

🤗

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1 hour ago, misswonderly3 said:

He did come out as gay shortly after the first allegations against him...

It was fairly well known Spacey was gay back in the American Beauty, Pay it Forward days. Obviously that had little effect on his career. 

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1 hour ago, 37kitties said:

Spacey didn't rape anyone. Nor did he attempt to rape anyone.

He did try to get with some teens of his gender, but that's what pretty nearly all homosexuals do. The homosexual culture understands this. And homosexuals of 16 are pretty happy about it, generally.

Well, what if the teen isn't homosexual and doesn't want to have a homosexual experience, you may ask.

Simple - they say "no, I don't swing that way". The end.

"Rape" - no, it's not.

I never said it was.  I just said rape is a serious accusation,   regardless of the gender of the accuser.

I  did not intend to get into a big discussion about Kevin Spacey and the allegations against him.  I've actually always liked him as an actor, and all I was saying was,  regardless of his tarnished reputation   ( because it can happen that someone's reputation is permanently tarnished after such allegations, whether ever proven or not  ),  I would still watch any film he's in that I felt like watching.   Same goes for other actors too.  Unless it's something really, really  horrific that the artist is associated with,   I can and do generally separate the art from the artist.

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