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The huge problem with the CC is that you’re missing so much other action and camera work and nuances, or you think you might be.  But it’s absolutely no good if you can’t make out the dialogue and keep up with the plot .  I will watch this one again if given the chance.  William Holden next week.  My bartender friend says he’s one of her favourite actors.  Maybe she will invite me over and we can watch it twice.

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50 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Yes,  the novel is almost as replete with Catholic guilt and meditations on God and sin and good and evil and hell, etc. as Joyce's work.  Sex, too, as I recall.

Most of this is left out of the movie.  It's sort of too bad,  because all the Catholic philosophizing and angsting is part of what makes the book interesting.  But the film is still very good,  and a relatively faithful rendition of the novel -- which, given Greene's participation,  is to be expected.

 

I should read the novel again as I haven't done so in a long time and  I've forgotten a lot of the details. I don't know if Greene's Catholicism  was 

orthodox or idiosyncratic, but all the talk about sin,  guilt, hell, etc. is something I've  never  really understood and maybe that's just  as well. It

certainly was important to  him, but I just don't get it. The  guy is a killer and a very  cruel one at that.  Who  cares about debates on  sin and guilt.

I think Joyce had a somewhat more critical view  of  the  Catholic church. I  believe  he once called Ireland  a priest ridden country. Ouch.

On a  different note I wonder if  the prologue about how Brighton  is a  nice, family  friendly  place, and not the notorious den  of sin it was

between  the  wars is accurate or if it was just some local chamber of commerce puffery. 

I think Eddie  looks okay. He's  just getting  older and got a  bad haircut.

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7 hours ago, LsDoorMat said:

I had a terrible time understanding what was being said in the film. I don't know if the sound recording was bad or what it was. I am going to watch my Blu of the film with the closed caption turned on, because it was hard to decipher the plot without knowing what was being said. 

It's those Cockney accents !  I watch a lot of British films,  and even I have trouble understanding what they're saying half the time,  especially those thick East London dialects.   ( well, not London,  Brighton I guess, but close.)

There's a hilarious SNL sketch from a few years ago, featuring the brilliant Bill Hader.  It really nails that  incomprehensible working class accent:

 

 

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How can anybody understand James Joyce?  I think he’s a cool dude and all, Portrait was readable, but Ulysses?  Finnegan’s Wake?  Heck, you might as well try to read Sterling Hayden’s Voyage., Nobody can possibly know what those novels are about, the language is just too far out.  

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3 hours ago, Thompson said:

Same here.  The “subtitle c/c” was off too.  Have to watch/listen again.  I liked the girl, not sure why really, but I was happy the needle skipped, I couldn’t have watched her reaction if it hadn’t.

In the book,  as Eddie mentioned,  that is not the ending.  The girl returns to her flat anticipating listening to what she fondly believes will be a sweet declaration of love from Pinkie,  only to experience the "worst horror yet".  Her hearing Pinkie's true feelings for her on the record occurs   "off -screen" or, actually ,  "off-book",   but we know she will hear his message of hatred and contempt.

But in a way,  I think it would have been a good thing ,  or at least,  in the long run,  a helpful thing,  for Rose to have heard that recording.  She would have become a lot wiser, and perhaps moved on with her life in a way that, still self-deceived about Pinkie,  she will never be in the film version of the ending.

Of course,  in the film, Pinkie tries to break the record.  He doesn't succeed  ( what the h were those old records made of?)  but he manages to scratch it so that Rose does not hear the rest of his  "message" to her.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Gorman said:

C.S. LEWIS was a British convert -- but I don't remember if he was a Catholic or Protestant offhand.  

 

He never became a Catholic,  much to the disappointment of his friend J.R.R. Tolkien.  I think he was Anglican, but he regarded himself more as a Christian than as a member of any particular denomination of that faith.  He wrote a very personal book about his "conversion",  titled "Surprised by Joy".  I love his Narnia books with a deep and fervent affection,  must have read all of them at least three times.   Nothing even remotely noirish about them, though.

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40 minutes ago, Thompson said:

How can anybody understand James Joyce?  I think he’s a cool dude and all, Portrait was readable, but Ulysses?  Finnegan’s Wake?  Heck, you might as well try to read Sterling Hayden’s Voyage., Nobody can possibly know what those novels are about, the language is just too far out.  

In the interests of genuine honesty  ( as opposed to,  uh,  false honesty),  I must confess I have only read Portrait of the Artist and Dubliners.  I cannot pretend that I have read Finnegan's Wake - but come on, who has?  There are probably 10 people in the entire world at this moment who actually have.    I don't even intend to ever read it.  However,  I do hope someday to read Ulysses, but only for the naughty bits,  which I've heard are very salacious.  I'll probably skip everything else.

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Ulysses is relatively easy to read. It might take time to  get use to the structure of the book. Of course there are all kinds of various guides

that dig deeper into the book, including ones that tease out the equivalences between Joyce and Homer's original. But the basic story is

not too difficult. I see this fairly often, but there is no apostrophe in Finnegans  Wake. It's sort  of the  literary  equivalent to the Hitler

was elected mistake. No he  wasn't.  

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Rose, Carol Marsh, is going to stick with me, it’s something unexplainable, like The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock.  Normally I’m against all that, watching the women come and go talking of Michelangelo, but this actress Marsh was special.  The remake in 2010 kept that album skip too Eddie said.  Some things, even in noir, are too cruel, I’m really glad for the record skip at the end.  

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It wasn't that Eddie looked sick, but to me he seemed different - like maybe bored or irritated?   It was his comment about "still being the host" that got me worried.  Then his intro comments went missing this morning, which has never happened before.   No buffering problem or time jumps in 15 years..  All these things together seem like more than just a coincidence, but maybe I've watched too many detective movies.   🧐    I hope that's all it is.

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Just a few more thoughts re.  Brighton Rock:   I can't recall how old Pinkie is in the book,  I know he's young...but 17?  Really?  17 is really young.  It's odd to see this extremely young thug intimidating and bossing all these older men around.  I know it's partly Pinkie's toughness and strong will, and certainly I can see a much younger person being top dog in a gang of older guys.  But 17 is so young,  he'd have had so little experience.  But maybe that is the way Graham Greene wrote it,  I don't remember.

The Hermione Baddeley character:  How come Pinkie didn't decide to off her?  He had no hesitation killing others who were less of a threat than Ida was, yet he just allows her to carry on in her investigation.  I  mean,  I'm glad he doesn't,  I like the lady,  but I do wonder why he never even seems to consider that option.

I also really like the old disbarred  (?)  lawyer who keeps quoting Shakespeare.

 

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17 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Just a few more thoughts re.  Brighton Rock:   I can't recall how old Pinkie is in the book,  I know he's young...but 17? 

In the book, yes, he's seventeen. Rose is sixteen but she tells Pinkie she's seventeen.

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On 10/9/2021 at 2:28 PM, Vautrin said:

 

Brighton Rock a few times, though not lately and if I recall it correctly the movie is less focused on those religious themes than

the book. 

They know what they were doing leaving out the religious stuff. If you're not a Catholic it can get really tedious. I can't get through the religiously-based novels of Greene. The Heart of the Matter was fine for a long time but later the religious angst became unbearable. I got through it somehow but the book did get frayed on the edges for having been hurled against the wall so many times.

 

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13 hours ago, Thompson said:

it’s something unexplainable, like The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock

Given the whole of Eliot, this poem is lucid. (I may be off the track with your context) It is certainly one of the finest of all poems ever written. It has the ambience of Shakespeare. I'm glad you mentioned it.

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So far I have not been able to get through BR. The acting and general story-telling seems hyper and affected. Slapstick without the comedy. Phony and forced. Rambunctious. I don't know. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please elaborate. I'm not sure either. The movie is too in my face. Over the top. I feel smothered. Whatever the problem, it's not by accident, it is very much intentional. It's what they wanted. I'm sure it works for many ...

13 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

I also really like the old disbarred  (?)  lawyer who keeps quoting Shakespeare.

That sounds interesting. Maybe I'll skim the movie for quotes.

This is not a test, dear MissW, but can you remember one (or two).

(Remember Dixon Steele's friend, the old actor who was a little soused. He slung a few.)

 

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2 hours ago, laffite said:

Given the whole of Eliot, this poem is lucid. (I may be off the track with your context) It is certainly one of the finest of all poems ever written. It has the ambience of Shakespeare. I'm glad you mentioned it.

No not off track.  I had to study this poem in college.  And I studied it.  And I got it.  Lucid is the perfect word.  Art is a wonderful thing.  It has a life of its own.  It doesn’t depend on critics or anything else.  We are so lucky to have artists.  Where would we be without them?  That experience of “getting” Prufrock after hours of trying was that epiphany feeling.  Been chasing that high ever since.

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15 hours ago, Katie_G said:

It wasn't that Eddie looked sick, but to me he seemed different - like maybe bored or irritated?   It was his comment about "still being the host" that got me worried.  Then his intro comments went missing this morning, which has never happened before.   No buffering problem or time jumps in 15 years..  All these things together seem like more than just a coincidence, but maybe I've watched too many detective movies.   🧐    I hope that's all it is.

He joked he was hungover.

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Cool, people are talking about James Joyce books.  I've also only read The Dubliners and Portrait.  I'd like to read the rest someday but i but know Ulysses is a big undertaking.  I have a professor at Uni who was the biggest nerd and he was so happy with himself after he completed one of his goals of finishing Ulysses along with study books along the way to understand every reference in it.  With Finnegans Wake, i know very little about it other than the  experimental use of language.  I believe Joyce didn't even 'write' it but that he dictated it, which only confuses me as to how he could've experimented with words through dictation.

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5 minutes ago, Thompson said:

No not off tract.  I had to study this poem in college.  And I studied it.  And I got it.  Lucid is the perfect word.  Art is a wonderful thing.  It has a life of its own.  It doesn’t depend on critics or anything else.  We are so lucky to have artists.  Where would we be without them?  That experience of “getting” Prufrock after hours of trying was that epiphany feeling.  Been chasing that high ever since.

Well, the next time you have and are longing it, try this:

(Yeah, I know ; so sad, but so poignant.)

SHu6non.jpg

***

There is a willow grows aslant a brook,

That shows his hoar leaves in the glassy stream;

There with fantastic garlands did she come

Of crow-flowers, nettles, daisies, and long purples

That liberal shepherds give a grosser name,

But our cold maids do dead men's fingers call them:

There, on the pendent boughs her coronet weeds

Clambering to hang, an envious sliver broke;

When down her weedy trophies and herself

Fell in the weeping brook. Her clothes spread wide;

And, mermaid-like, awhile they bore her up:

Which time she chanted snatches of old tunes;

As one incapable of her own distress,

Or like a creature native and indued

Unto that element: but long it could not be

Till that her garments, heavy with their drink,

Pull'd the poor wretch from her melodious lay

To muddy death.

***

SHAKESPEARE ; Hamlet IV vii ; Gertrude

//

 

 

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How 'bout this poetic nugget?

the Clobber Groves be still

striking The Wind

at its present Assail

the Meadowbrook Folly

be it ever

with us

taking us to a Familiar Place

where Nothing Grows

Autumn Leaves  🍂🍁

Frozen  🥶

---------------

I dig reading short stuff dat makes no damn sense!   👍🤪

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6 minutes ago, Shank Asu said:

Cool, people are talking about James Joyce books

Dubliners has been mentioned and is somewhat more accessible (for some at least, and certainly me) than some of the "problem" novels mentioned. The short stories contained in the Dubliner collection gives us "The Dead," probably the most famous of the bunch (and what a bunch!). I read it long ago and didn't seem to do anything for me. More recently it was the subject of a Book Club meeting and this time I was enthralled.  I have read that it is considered by many critics perhaps the finest short story in the language. It is beautifully crafted and leaves a palpable ambience. An excellent movie was done in 1986. absolutely stellar. I like Angelica Huston generally, but she is now firmly etched into my personal hall of fame actors. She has an important and difficult scene near the end and on which the movie relies ... and she nails it.  If, by chance, you have not read or seen, i recommend the book first. The book will not spoil the movie but the movie will rob you of the reading experience ... IMHO.

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3 hours ago, laffite said:

So far I have not been able to get through BR. The acting and general story-telling seems hyper and affected. Slapstick without the comedy. Phony and forced. Rambunctious. I don't know. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please elaborate. I'm not sure either. The movie is too in my face. Over the top. I feel smothered. Whatever the problem, it's not by accident, it is very much intentional. It's what they wanted. I'm sure it works for many ...

That sounds interesting. Maybe I'll skim the movie for quotes.

This is not a test, dear MissW, but can you remember one (or two).

(Remember Dixon Steele's friend, the old actor who was a little soused. He slung a few.)

 

I believe it's Macbeth he quotes, it's when he first appears on the scene.  But he actually quotes lines from Shakespeare every time you see him  ( which isn't all that often,  I think the guy has 2 or 3 scenes altogether ?  )

I'm sorry you had such a negative response to Brighton Rock.  I disagree with everything you said about it,  I did not feel it was "hyper and affected",  or "phony,  forced,  or rambunctious"  at all.  Still,  full points for giving reasons why you didn't like it,  rather than just saying,  "I didn't like it".  I think the other person here who felt that way about the film was ElCid. 

I'm wondering if you and he just don't connect with English films,  or at least,  old English films.  There's definitely a different aesthetic and sensibility to them   from their American counterparts,  maybe that difference just doesn't connect with you and you find it artificial somehow -- I don't get the "feeling smothered"  thing,  but as we all know,  a person's response to any given film is very visceral and very personal,  and sometimes we just feel what we feel,  and that's it.   

(  Kind of like my visceral hatred for David Fincher films.)

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