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29 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Oh,  is that what those tiny little symbols were supposed to look like?  I'm afraid I'm not very learned on internet emojis and all the symbols etc.  Thanks for the explanation.  B)   (  note the suitably friendly emoji I posted--even I can figure out those ones,  the faces.)

Emojis that are listed under category can be enlarged by clicking on them and going to SIZE (which in generally used for text). The man with his hands up was resized to the maximum, i. e., 72. Exception is that category which are most often used, such as you COOL guy up there. Emojis in that category, which can be found by scrolling all the way down, cannot be enlarged.

Tip: On those that are enlargeable, it is best to type your entire post first, then enlarge the emoji. Once you enlarge an emoji then NORMALLY the software will not allow to type anything after that. But sometimes it does.

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4 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

I hope this doesn't sound insensitive, but five minutes into LA BESTIA DEBE MORIR I was already exhausted.

Wish Noir Alley had run the Chabrol version instead.

Too much white-over-white captioning. I kept having to freeze-frame to read it. Then gave up, too.

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Yes, the plot would have been clearer if  the first twenty or so minutes were placed  closer to  the end  of  the film. It  has  to  be

much  easier to  understand  on a second viewing. I thought whether Felix or the little tyke was  the killer was ambiguous. I

went  with Felix  because whatever  mental problems he had I just don't see him committing suicide by  sea just to throw 

suspicion away  from  the kid. It was certainly a well done movie with an atypical plot, though all the  scenarios  he came

up  with for  knocking off  the bad  guy  started  to  remind  me of  Kind Hearts and  Coronets.  All that money spent on

restoration  and you'd think they would  have used yellow subtitles. But in general it was an interesting change  of  pace.

 

I tuned  into Unforgiven at 11:15, which  was  the start time in the schedule. Ben  comes on for a moment and  then  they

run a promo for Clint's new movie Cry Something. That went  on  for  twenty dull minutes with  people saying what  a

great  director Clint is, blah blah. Waste  of time. Finally they  actually ran the film. Hooray.

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3 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Two things I noticed about La Bestia Debe Morir that seemed like plot flaws:  If "Linda"  ( the beautiful actress who Felix befriends)  had such a hatred for the horrible  Rattinger  ( is that the name?), if she consistently repelled his advances and had no interest in him whatsoever,  what was she doing in the car with him in the first place?  The night they were at Cape Gold,  where Felix's young son was hit,  why were they there ?  Linda says she was always struggling with Rattinger to keep his hands off her.  Ok, but then,  why was she with him on a car trip some distance from Rattinger's home?

Second plot flaw  :   Why did Felix leave his diary and open for anyone to read?  Yes,  I know he wanted everyone to believe he was plotting Rattinger's murder,  but Rattinger himself found the diary and read it.  So it's hard to believe Felix did it deliberately;  he planned to drown Rattinger when they were in the boat,  and Rattinger read of this plan in the diary.  Felix couldn't have at that point done it  ( left his diary open and available like that) to clear the kid,  because at that point in the story,  Ronnie  ( the boy) had not yet done anything  ( ie,  had not poisoned the drink).  Shirley if Felix had truly meant to drown the horrible man,  hit-and-run killer of his son,  he would not have left his diary open and accessible like that.  It doesn't make any sense.

 

 

It does because it’s implied he left the diary to be read on purpose .  It’s always under lock and key and then it isn’t. When the two are on the boat all that double crossing chess game stuff comes out and Felix the cat admits he left it out to be read.  He just hadn’t finished it yet.

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18 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Two things I noticed about La Bestia Debe Morir that seemed like plot flaws:  If "Linda"  ( the beautiful actress who Felix befriends)  had such a hatred for the horrible  Rattinger  ( is that the name?), if she consistently repelled his advances and had no interest in him whatsoever,  what was she doing in the car with him in the first place?  The night they were at Cape Gold,  where Felix's young son was hit,  why were they there ?  Linda says she was always struggling with Rattinger to keep his hands off her.  Ok, but then,  why was she with him on a car trip some distance from Rattinger's home?

Second plot flaw  :   Why did Felix leave his diary and open for anyone to read?  Yes,  I know he wanted everyone to believe he was plotting Rattinger's murder,  but Rattinger himself found the diary and read it.  So it's hard to believe Felix did it deliberately;  he planned to drown Rattinger when they were in the boat,  and Rattinger read of this plan in the diary.  Felix couldn't have at that point done it  ( left his diary open and available like that) to clear the kid,  because at that point in the story,  Ronnie  ( the boy) had not yet done anything  ( ie,  had not poisoned the drink).  Shirley if Felix had truly meant to drown the horrible man,  hit-and-run killer of his son,  he would not have left his diary open and accessible like that.  It doesn't make any sense.

 

 

As to who did kill Rattinger - Yes I find it hard to believe that Felix would not anticipate somebody like Rattinger  reading his diary. But maybe he did make that goof. Because there really was no reason to take him out on the boat not knowing exactly how and when Rattinger would react if he knew. It was a very risky move on the part of Felix.  And when Felix goes out to retrieve Ronnie after Rattinger is poisoned, the first thing he says to him is "Why did you do it?". Ronnie seems like a sensitive intelligent boy for his age, but I doubt he'd be so wily as to think - "What is this guy talking about... HE did it. I saw him do it.  Oh, he's delusional and I'll play along." So I think Felix's murder attempt really did fail, Ronnie really did poison Rattinger for pretty good reasons since a child is helpless in his situation especially when dealing with a brute beast like Rattinger who besides being violent is rich and powerful, and Felix, seeing Ronnie as something very close to the son he lost, really did set things up in the end to make it look like he did it so Ronnie would not be implicated.  But you've got some good theories there and you could be right. 

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@Mr6666

And what is it that confuses you?

Why not tell me all about it.

Seriously, that's the way it seems to work on my computer.

Re : my emoji post above

:) 

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I agree with Vautrin absolutely that the “killer” of the beast is a plot ambiguity.  Is that on purpose? Certainly Carpax (the business partner) had reason and motive and means and supply.  If somebody so blatantly is pawing my wife in public rubbing it in like that you better believe I’d plot to kill him.  Everybody had motive.  Maybe not Mom, but maybe so.  I fell for the revenge thing with Felix.  I felt he was going to find and kill the beast.  He went about it cerebrally.  I read some plot thing on the internet where it says he falls in love with Linda.  No he doesn’t, he uses her to get close Rattery.  To kill him.  I find it more satisfying to believe he actually did.  Vautrin is right though, it’s ambiguous.

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8 hours ago, laffite said:

@Mr6666

And what is it that confuses you?

Why not tell me all about it.

Seriously, that's the way it seems to work on my computer.

Re : my emoji post above

:) 

just sounds like WAY too much work just to enlarge an emoji...... :unsure:

Sorry for confusion ;)

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On 10/24/2021 at 8:08 PM, Thompson said:

It does because it’s implied he left the diary to be read on purpose .  It’s always under lock and key and then it isn’t. When the two are on the boat all that double crossing chess game stuff comes out and Felix the cat admits he left it out to be read.  He just hadn’t finished it yet.

Ok,  but as I tried to say  ( albeit not very coherently )  Felix planned to drown Rattinger when they went out in the boat.  He did write of this plan in his diary,  agreed.  However,  who was it he hoped would find the diary,  open and accessible as it was?  It may be that he wanted someone to find and read it,  but it doesn't make sense that he'd want that someone to be Rattinger himself,  his intended victim.  I think he really was planning to drown Rattinger when they went out in the boat;  therefore,  why would he leave his diary available for anyone,  including Rattinger,  to read?

I don't know, maybe I missed something....it certainly was a complicated story.   I'm not even sure why Felix wanted the police to read his diary anyway--at least,  before he realized it was the kid who'd poisoned Rattinger,  at which point,  he wanted the police to believe he,  Felix,  had committed the murder.  He wanted to save the boy from being caught,  very noble and all that.   But the point in the film where he leaves his diary lying around occurred before the kid had poisoned the drink,  and obviously, before Rattinger had been murdered.

But I'm maybe spending too much time trying to figure this stuff out.   Maybe one day I'll get to see the other version of the story  ( Chabrol ?)  and it will be interesting to see if it's any easier to follow.

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On 10/24/2021 at 4:43 PM, laffite said:

Emojis that are listed under category can be enlarged by clicking on them and going to SIZE (which in generally used for text). The man with his hands up was resized to the maximum, i. e., 72. Exception is that category which are most often used, such as you COOL guy up there. Emojis in that category, which can be found by scrolling all the way down, cannot be enlarged.

Tip: On those that are enlargeable, it is best to type your entire post first, then enlarge the emoji. Once you enlarge an emoji then NORMALLY the software will not allow to type anything after that. But sometimes it does.

Um,  thanks for that explanation about emoticons,  lafitte. While I admire your knowledge about them and how to use them,  I tend to use them sparingly myself,  and don't really plan to make use of the information you posted about them.  I know that sounds ungracious,  sorry,  and your 'splaining about them like that was interesting,  but I think I'll just stick to a "cool" face now and then, that type of thing.  But I'm impressed that you know so much about them.

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On 10/24/2021 at 4:26 PM, Thompson said:

MissW, I really think Felix was the killer.  He got his revenge just like he set out to do.  Ronnie was really trying to protect his only friend, he saw Felix put the poison in the bottle.  And the ending is not a case of The Unreliable Narrator.  Now why Felix had to bust up poor Ronnie’s treasured boat seemed a bit selfish.

Hmm.  Interesting.  There was something in the film that made me think it was the kid who did it,  but now I'm not so sure.  I'd have to see the movie again,  and given that it was a difficult film to view--eg,  all the sub-titles to read and the convoluted structure -- I probably wouldn't feel like re-watching it anytime soon.

As Eddie M.  and also poster Bronxgirl mentioned,  there is another version of the story.  Maybe it's easier to figure out. It's a French film, directed by Claude Chabrol,  1969,  titled  "Que la Bete Meure".  I wonder if Eddie could get hold of it?  

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6 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Um,  thanks for that explanation about emoticons,  lafitte. While I admire your knowledge about them and how to use them,  I tend to use them sparingly myself,  and don't really plan to make use of the information you posted about them.  I know that sounds ungracious,  sorry,  and your 'splaining about them like that was interesting,  but I think I'll just stick to a "cool" face now and then, that type of thing.  But I'm impressed that you know so much about them.

Um, to tell you the truth I don't used them that much either. It's quite rare actually. But I'm glad I know enough about them to 'splain them even though to people who don't really plan to use them. No, it didn't sound ungracious at all, after all I wasn't actually trying to persuade you to use them. I think a lot can be accomplished with the "cool' face now and then, that type of thing. Thank you for being impressed that I know so much about them and admiring my knowledge about them. Especially when you could have simply used a 'thanks' emoji.

🙄

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15 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Ok,  but as I tried to say  ( albeit not very coherently )  Felix planned to drown Rattinger when they went out in the boat.  He did write of this plan in his diary,  agreed.  However,  who was it he hoped would find the diary,  open and accessible as it was?  It may be that he wanted someone to find and read it,  but it doesn't make sense that he'd want that someone to be Rattinger himself,  his intended victim.  I think he really was planning to drown Rattinger when they went out in the boat;  therefore,  why would he leave his diary available for anyone,  including Rattinger,  to read?

I don't know, maybe I missed something....it certainly was a complicated story.   I'm not even sure why Felix wanted the police to read his diary anyway--at least,  before he realized it was the kid who'd poisoned Rattinger,  at which point,  he wanted the police to believe he,  Felix,  had committed the murder.  He wanted to save the boy from being caught,  very noble and all that.   But the point in the film where he leaves his diary lying around occurred before the kid had poisoned the drink,  and obviously, before Rattinger had been murdered.

But I'm maybe spending too much time trying to figure this stuff out.   Maybe one day I'll get to see the other version of the story  ( Chabrol ?)  and it will be interesting to see if it's any easier to follow.

YES!  That’s it, he wanted someone to find the diary, but not the Rat.  MissW, your plot breakdown and insight has just completely changed my original opinion.  Yes, the kid did the deed (unless Mom did it and he saw her).  It also fits that he left the diary out to take credit for the murder at sea.  Does he plan on going into hiding after he pushes Rat in the water?  Yes probably because why not just capsize the boat and risk drowning too, if his intention was suicide after the fact.  The diary though is still is an enigma.  Maybe he really did leave it open by mistake?  I assumed he did not. Maybe though, and it’s possible, the plot line is deliberately ambiguous.

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I haven't commented on La Bestia Debe Morir yet because I only managed to catch the last half of it on Saturday night early Sunday morn. I figured I could see it On Demand but it hasn't showed up there yet.

I agree with those complaining about Noir Alley not having a  12 midnight dedicated start time. It sucks when its  a longer wait.  I usually try and see the Sunday morning showing if I don't stay up, but I couldn't this go round. 

Oh Well, you'd think that Noir Alleys films would be natural for On Demand offerings.

There is a streaming version online all in Spanish without subs

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5 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

I haven't commented on La Bestia Debe Morir yet because I only managed to catch the last half of it on Saturday night early Sunday morn. I figured I could see it On Demand but it hasn't showed up there yet.

I agree with those complaining about Noir Alley not having a  12 midnight dedicated start time. It sucks when its  a longer wait.  I usually try and see the Sunday morning showing if I don't stay up, but I couldn't this go round. 

Oh Well, you'd think that Noir Alleys films would be natural for On Demand offerings.

There is a streaming version online all in Spanish without subs

Well forget it La Bestia Debe Morir just showed up on demand. Will watch in a few.

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On 10/24/2021 at 1:45 PM, misswonderly3 said:

I know what you mean,  Bronxie.  A large part of the problem was reading all those subtitles, since the film is very dialogue -heavy.  And I'm used to sub-titles,  I like foreign films , but I found it a lot of work to read all those sub-titles and still keep up with everything that was going on.  The first 20 minutes or so of the film was quite dense,  dense with action, dialogue,  characters,  just a lot of stuff going on and to keep track of.  

I found it did get more comprehensible once the flashback,  which is most of the film,  started.   

SPOILER :    as Eddie noted,  it's very unusual to have a child murderer in a film,  especially back then.  And it never would have been allowed in an American version.     But then again, there's always "The Bad Seed",  isn't there?   However,  the guilty kid in La Bestia Debe Morir   is quite sympathetic,  and not at all like the psycho-killer kid in that film  ( TBS ).   And in a way,  it was poetic justice,  and made the whole structure of the story quite symmetrical,  since the boy who poisoned  the horrible hit-and -run killer was about the same age and seemed similar in personality to the boy who was killed.

One of the benefits of streaming On Demand you can pause the film and read the subs. Or record it and pause when you need too

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On 10/24/2021 at 3:25 PM, Katie_G said:

I watch films with subtitles all the time, but these were in such rapid succession that there was no time to digest what I was reading.  After 30 minutes I decided to watch it some other time.  Just wasn't in the mood.

Again the bennies of recording or streaming foreign language films.

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Ok the kid Ronnie did it for sure. He's read all of Felix's mysteries so he's probably got a plethora of ideas on how to do it. He grabs the poisoned bottle as soon as Rattery croaks (his mother or was it Linda that sees him too as he does so when she is on the phone to the cops). Then Felix spots him on the balcony above the stairway listening to the police inspector and looking guilty when he slinks away. During the flashback Carpax tells Ronnie about the strychnine when they are shooting rats. Ronnie also destroys the bottle when the cop asks him for it. Then later Ronnie writes the note saying he did it and not Felix. 

As for the diary Felix was either planning on drowning Rattery and probably killing himself or he figured that Rattery would try to attack and kill him and then die at sea since he could neither sail the boat or swim. The diary, either way accused Rattery of the hit and run death of his son, in which Linda may be implicated as a witness. 

Oh and Ronnie tells Linda that Felix told him to tell Linda that he really did love her.

The only way to get the original intention would  be to probably read the Cecil Day-Lewis novel. 

 

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We've probably discussed this film enough,  but I just want to bring up a point I made earlier and see if anyone has any insight into it  ( my earlier post).

"Linda",  the beautiful actress whom Felix befriends   (in hopes of finding out more about the hit-and-run killer,  but then he does actually fall in love with her  ),  anyway,  Linda is constantly claiming that she loathes Rattinger,  that she hates him for many reasons:  his brutal treatment of her sister, his cruelty to the kid, his overall  obnoxious arrogance,  and not least,  his constant attempts to convince her to let him become sexually involved with her. She's always complaining that she's always having to fight him off,  that "his hands are all over her" and she can't stand it.

So then,  what was she doing in the car with him the night Felix's son was hit?  She was beside him in the car,  they appeared to be going somewhere together.   It seems to me that regardless of what she said,  Linda was either having an affair with Rattinger,  or contemplating it.  Maybe after the hit and run she changed her mind about him,  she saw how brutal and selfish and terrible he was.   

Any thoughts?

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7 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

So then,  what was she doing in the car with him the night Felix's son was hit?  She was beside him in the car,  they appeared to be going somewhere together.   It seems to me that regardless of what she said,  Linda was either having an affair with Rattinger,  or contemplating it.  Maybe after the hit and run she changed her mind about him,  she saw how brutal and selfish and terrible he was.   

Any thoughts?

Yea looks like character in the book is an airhead -  synopsis.  Tipping My Fedora

"The diary shows how Frank is, through dogged persistence and sheer luck, able to track down the driver – the utterly odious and contemptible George Rattery, quite one of the most repellent characters one could hope to find in the genre. He is married to the sister of young movie starlet Lena Lawson who was in the car on the day of the accident, and who initially comes across as a complete airhead, prone to gushing non sequiturs and making appalling anti-semitic statements like ‘We could do with a of Hitler here’.

Frank, now sporting a beard and using his pen-name ‘Felix Lane’, starts a desperate course of action and dedicates himself to seeking revenge – he cold-bloodedly starts an affair with Lena so as to find a way into the Rattery home, which is ruled with an iron rod by George’s monstrous mother. She crushes the spirit of George’s son Phil and Lena’s sister Violet (who proves to be a real ‘shrinking violet’) with antiquated notions of Victorian propriety. Although Frank becomes quickly attached to the young Phil, who is close to the age of his dead son, he none the less sets about creating a full proof plan to kill George and get away with it. The diary ends just as Frank/Felix is about to set out on a dinghy on a trip during which he plans to kill George.

The book then shifts to the third person as the diary’s plan goes awry and Frank and Lena have to leave the Rattery home. But when later on George does die, Frank’s secret identity is exposed and he calls on sleuth Nigel Strangways to save him from the hangman. This begins the third section of the book and is the most conventional part of the story, in which a subtle murder plan is eventually uncovered as are a variety of subplots and red herrings as it predictably emerges that nearly everyone involved had a good reason to hate George.

The conclusion to the story is clever and logical and if not a complete surprise is however extremely satisfying. The integration of more mature elements into the story, with a fairly realistic handling of characters and motivation, can jar with the basic mechanics of what is outwardly a fairly standard country-house mystery – indeed, one could easily excise the diary and still have a medium-length detective story that would be no worse than so many others published in the 1930s – but it would lose not only its unique flavour but would clearly deflate the noble intention to bring the literary novel and the detective story together, which it does with considerably success even if it can’t quite overcome the breach in style from around the halfway mark once the murder has been committed.

This is a fine detective novel, one that succeeds well in its modest aspiration to broaden the horizons of the genre.

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48 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

We've probably discussed this film enough,  but I just want to bring up a point I made earlier and see if anyone has any insight into it  ( my earlier post).

"Linda",  the beautiful actress whom Felix befriends   (in hopes of finding out more about the hit-and-run killer,  but then he does actually fall in love with her  ),  anyway,  Linda is constantly claiming that she loathes Rattinger,  that she hates him for many reasons:  his brutal treatment of her sister, his cruelty to the kid, his overall  obnoxious arrogance,  and not least,  his constant attempts to convince her to let him become sexually involved with her. She's always complaining that she's always having to fight him off,  that "his hands are all over her" and she can't stand it.

So then,  what was she doing in the car with him the night Felix's son was hit?  She was beside him in the car,  they appeared to be going somewhere together.   It seems to me that regardless of what she said,  Linda was either having an affair with Rattinger,  or contemplating it.  Maybe after the hit and run she changed her mind about him,  she saw how brutal and selfish and terrible he was.   

Any thoughts?

Yes, that might be a flaw in the movie.  To think that the Rat could have all this influence and sway over the dames is over the top.  He seems to have had it though.  Linda was in the car because she fell under Rat’s spell, some sort of sexual thing, although that’s hard to figure but it might be true.  Who knows when you venture into that area.  I still maintain Felix was never in love with Linda,  she was just a tool for his revenge.

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The villain is often the most interesting character and that was the case in Bestia. Guillermo Battaglia was terrific as Jorge, stealing and chewing every scene he's in. He seems to have his way with any woman married or not so Linda's involvement with him was not a surprise. 

Felix's character is too detached in every way for someone who should be boiling with rage 24/7. He has no interest in Linda who has to use pressure during a date to make him take her to his apartment. She's only a link to his discovering who drove the car. He does nothing to stop Jorge from pawing Linda in the garden and she yells at him later for doing nothing. On his way to commit suicide, he doesn't bother to even look at her let alone say goodbye so despite what the kid tells her at the end, his message to her doesn't ring true.

My take is Felix is the poisoner and the boy is trying to protect him, something Felix can't accept.

The cinematography is excellent and the night time studio sets passing for outdoors had a great noirish feel. Los Tallos Amargos was a more compelling  noir, stronger, more shocking and intense. It took me 3 days to finish Bestias. Amargos in one sitting.

According to IMDB, Laura Hidalgo was married to Narcisco Menta, second of his 3 wives, but I have doubts about the site's accuracy.  

In Eddie's outro he mentioned the Noir Alley Facebook group but not the TCM message board. Anyone catch that?

 

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JamesE.  I’m sorta new at Noir Alley, but I thought Eddie always says join us on our Facebook and Twitter feed.  Don’t remember him saying anything  about the message boards.  But I might have a wet brain, how do you know?  You look in the mirror and you look like you did yesterday.  Still alive, so you leave it at that. 

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