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Noir Alley

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You guys are stimulating my grey matter, what little exists....

(small voice) Shouldn't Eddie have at least referenced JOHNNY EAGER?

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11 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

You guys are stimulating my grey matter, what little exists....

(small voice) Shouldn't Eddie have at least referenced JOHNNY EAGER?

We "virtually" know each other.  Let's movie.

photo-thumb-4066.jpg

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IN RE: JOHNNY EAGER (1942)

This is probably no help, but on a personal level, I don't consider it a noir- it's a slick, relentlessly glib, ostensible crime PIC-CHUH- an excuse to package two of MGM's most glamorous cardboard cutouts (TAY-LUH AND TUR-NAH TOGETHAH!) that could just as easily be a cafe society romp or a story about a longshoreman's union...and while I really like VAN HEFLIN and am glad that he did what everyone thought John Garfield would do (win supporting then build a long lasting, durable leading man career of it), his work in JOHNNY EAGER is AWFUL!!!! Like, he almost deserved the Oscar for just being able to recite that dreadful, dreadful dialogue that was written by someone who is clearly deeply and madly in love with their own style.

so, it's in a class of its own (as maybe the most glib studio film of the forties), but that class isn't (for me at least) noir- you have to kinda make a statement to be a noir in my eyes, and while JOHNNY EAGER is sure as Hell a verbose film, in the end, it doesn't really have much to say worth listening to.

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10 hours ago, Arteesto said:

We "virtually" know each other.  Let's movie.

photo-thumb-4066.jpg

Yep!!  There we go!!  I've got my Windex at the ready!!

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9 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

IN RE: JOHNNY EAGER (1942)

This is probably no help, but on a personal level, I don't consider it a noir- it's a slick, relentlessly glib, ostensible crime PIC-CHUH- an excuse to package two of MGM's most glamorous cardboard cutouts (TAY-LUH AND TUR-NAH TOGETHAH!) that could just as easily be a cafe society romp or a story about a longshoreman's union...and while I really like VAN HEFLIN and am glad that he did what everyone thought John Garfield would do (win supporting then build a long lasting, durable leading man career of it), his work in JOHNNY EAGER is AWFUL!!!! Like, he almost deserved the Oscar for just being able to recite that dreadful, dreadful dialogue that was written by someone who is clearly deeply and madly in love with their own style.

so, it's in a class of its own (as maybe the most glib studio film of the forties), but that class isn't (for me at least) noir- you have to kinda make a statement to be a noir in my eyes, and while JOHNNY EAGER is sure as Hell a verbose film, in the end, it doesn't really have much to say worth listening to.

HA!!!  Lorna, I know exactly what you mean!  MGM in general has never been my favorite studio (well, except for The Thin Man series) because of all the gloss.  Haven't seen JOHNNY EAGER in some time but agree that Van Heflin's "poetic" cynicism is pretty cringe-worthy.  

Is JOHNNY APOLLO in this pseudo "early noir"/gangster mode, complete with the two beautiful who-do-you-look-at-first stars, in this case Ty Power and Dotty Lamour?

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12 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

Yep!!  There we go!!  I've got my Windex at the ready!!

download.jpg.e01e3596f936d336087d1bb87f66cbcd.jpg

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13 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

HA!!!  Lorna, I know exactly what you mean!  MGM in general has never been my favorite studio (well, except for The Thin Man series) because of all the gloss.  Haven't seen JOHNNY EAGER in some time but agree that Van Heflin's "poetic" cynicism is pretty cringe-worthy.  

Is JOHNNY APOLLO in this pseudo "early noir"/gangster mode, complete with the two beautiful who-do-you-look-at-first stars, in this case Ty Power and Dotty Lamour?

I have never seen JOHNNY APOLLO, honestly, I think this is the first I've ever heard of it!

I agree about MGM although I LOVE THE HUMAN COMEDY, Everything after that tho, they take the schmaltz too far.

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Ps- Van Heflin more or less reprises his JOHNNY EAGER part a couple more times, notably in POSSESSED, where I actually like him a lot. He was the last male costar of CRAWFORDS who matched her theatrics and didn't back down

And we know how that ends for him, the poor bastard. 

 

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THE HUMAN COMEDY is one of the very few Rooney movies I can stand, lol.  (I wonder what The Mickster is like in QUICKSAND, which is supposed to be noir) 

I agree about Heflin in POSSESSED.  

I never understood David Brian's appeal even though I think he always stood up to Joan, interminably barking his lines.  It seemed he and the skull-faced Barry Sullivan were interchangeable in those 50's Crawford films.

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Having a problem with my editing feature, so sorry for the aborted first reply re: THE HUMAN COMEDY.

I've only seen bits and pieces of JOHNNY APOLLO over the years but even those few glimpses didn't stand out in my memory.

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On 6/8/2018 at 9:25 AM, LornaHansonForbes said:

IN RE: JOHNNY EAGER (1942)

This is probably no help, but on a personal level, I don't consider it a noir- it's a slick, relentlessly glib, ostensible crime PIC-CHUH- an excuse to package two of MGM's most glamorous cardboard cutouts (TAY-LUH AND TUR-NAH TOGETHAH!) that could just as easily be a cafe society romp or a story about a longshoreman's union...and while I really like VAN HEFLIN and am glad that he did what everyone thought John Garfield would do (win supporting then build a long lasting, durable leading man career of it), his work in JOHNNY EAGER is AWFUL!!!! Like, he almost deserved the Oscar for just being able to recite that dreadful, dreadful dialogue that was written by someone who is clearly deeply and madly in love with their own style.

so, it's in a class of its own (as maybe the most glib studio film of the forties), but that class isn't (for me at least) noir- you have to kinda make a statement to be a noir in my eyes, and while JOHNNY EAGER is sure as Hell a verbose film, in the end, it doesn't really have much to say worth listening to.

Agreed, Lorna! It's not noir probably to most film buffs, but then the current noir "experts" aren't film buffs anyway.

But then, those making a profit off all these old films by repackaging them as noir masterpieces, would not be able to make a buck off them, so expect that soon even things like Edna May Oliver in the lovely black and white "Murder on the Blackboard" will show up in some compilation of noir classics, titled "Dastardly Schoolmarm Dames" and be heralded on Muller's noir time slot in exegesis form.

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3 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

 (I wonder what The Mickster is like in QUICKSAND, which is supposed to be noir) 

It's actually a pretty good noir, that and Drive A Crooked Road. I don't remember if I've ever seen The Human Comedy.

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Thanks for the QUICKSAND and DRIVE A CROOKED ROAD heads-up, @cigarjoe

Mickey is restrained and touching in THE HUMAN COMEDY.  If you like OUR TOWN I think you'll enjoy this film.

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On 6/9/2018 at 9:45 PM, Bronxgirl48 said:

Thanks for the QUICKSAND and DRIVE A CROOKED ROAD heads-up, @cigarjoe

Mickey is restrained and touching in THE HUMAN COMEDY.  If you like OUR TOWN I think you'll enjoy this film.

QUICKSAND is really good, plus you get to see a fight between Mickey and PETER LORRE. It's very Dostoyeskian, and Eddie described it as ANDY HARDY GOES TO HELL in his book DARK CITY. I would not be surprised to see it on NOIR ALLEY some day soon.

a quasi noir featuring Rooney is THE STRIP (1951)- although it's almost more of a early feature-length music video (or a collection of filmed performances) than a film, which is fine because the music is EXCELLENT

 

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No discussion about Conflict? I'd seen it before and didnt like it, but watched it again to see what Eddie would say about it........

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I thought it was OK. I hadn't seen it before Sunday. I actually thought Greenstreet was very good. I'm a huge Bogart fan, but prefer it when he's the good guy. Like Eddie said the plot was similar to The Two Mrs. Carrolls. Also, they didn't do much to develop Alexis Smith's character. Clearly it wasn't one of Bogart's best films, but still I found it entertaining.

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SPOILERS

 

It was obvious Greenstreet must have been behind it all, so there was no mystery to me. The wrap up was just not believable. But it was worth seeing (ONCE).

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11 minutes ago, Hibi said:

SPOILERS

 

It was obvious Greenstreet must have been behind it all, so there was no mystery to me. The wrap up was just not believable. But it was worth seeing (ONCE).

I would think It'd be pretty obvious whenever Sydney Greenstreet is behind anything, unless it's maybe an ocean liner.

not good at hide and seek that one...

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On 2/9/2017 at 1:49 PM, Winslow_Leach said:

 

This reminds me:

 

I've always been seized by the impulse to call him Czar of Noir, "Crazy Eddie" Muller.

 

He's just always had that kind of "Crazy Eddie" vibe for me. Not the frenetic, OTT, demonstrably nutters kind of "crazy". More a low key, quietly insane, subtly mad, killer-next-door sort.

Bet it's informed by his San Francisco roots.

Probably has that wild-eyed look due to using a false surname as his moniker. Those giant, rolling around eyes make Muller resemble a madhouse version of Alastair Sim, who sits home alone at the boarding house, having writer's block and getting out the thesaurus looking for different words than engorged or appendage to use in the romantic scenes of his next teen spirited potboiler about boxers in San Francisco who also double as detectives. When I watch Muller or Vukovich or whatever his real hame is, say how much easier it is for him to buy libation from the Wine Club because it is so difficult for him to pick his poison to drink with a movie, I think he should be called Slow Eddie.

By the way, "Conflict" is about as noir as "The Bobbsey Twins Visit the Mountains", but since it is in the canon of previous books written about noir, and all the usual "experts" just keep rehashing the usual dribble, it stays on the list. One would think anyone knowing film would see it for what it is, a boring programmer from the "Had I But Known School" which regardless of when it was released, is no true model of noir elements. Don't expect our current TCM "expert" to rock the boat though and go against the grain with any original thought though or with "conflicting" views.

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58 minutes ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

I would think It'd be pretty obvious whenever Sydney Greenstreet is behind anything, unless it's maybe an ocean liner.

not good at hide and seek that one...

LOL.

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To borrow a phrase from the wine club, Conflict is a modest little product. 

Entertaining but no great shakes. I don't know if it would have saved her

life or not, but Rose Hobart should have lost that skunk do and slapped on the

black shoe polish. PU. This is a minor point, but I wondered about the ethics

of a psychiatrist not helping a disturbed person, but conniving with the police

to catch him. Seems a bit on the shady side, not that Greenstreet wasn't used

to that sort of thing and usually on a much larger scale. And then one has to

wonder about all the resources expended just to make Bogie believe his wife

might still be alive. It sure took a lot of time and trouble to do it, not to mention

how unbelievable some of the ruses were. 

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9 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

QUICKSAND is really good, plus you get to see a fight between Mickey and PETER LORRE. It's very Dostoyeskian, and Eddie described it as ANDY HARDY GOES TO HELL in his book DARK CITY. I would not be surprised to see it on NOIR ALLEY some day soon.

a quasi noir featuring Rooney is THE STRIP (1951)- although it's almost more of a early feature-length music video (or a collection of filmed performances) than a film, which is fine because the music is EXCELLENT

 

Oh my!  Mickey and Peter Lorre?  That alone is worth it.  (and I love Dostoyevsky, lol)  ANDY HARDY GOES TO HELL, ha!!

I think I've seen THE STRIP but don't remember it too well except for Rooney making like Gene Krupa on the drums.

I prefer psycho Bogart more than anything else (THE RETURN OF DR. X, CONFLICT, THE TWO MRS. CARROLLS, IN A LONELY PLACE and THE CAINE MUTINY).  He really knows how to play them.    

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15 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

Oh my!  Mickey and Peter Lorre?  That alone is worth it.  (and I love Dostoyevsky, lol)  ANDY HARDY GOES TO HELL, ha!!

I think I've seen THE STRIP but don't remember it too well except for Rooney making like Gene Krupa on the drums.

I prefer psycho Bogart more than anything else (THE RETURN OF DR. X, CONFLICT, THE TWO MRS. CARROLLS, IN A LONELY PLACE and THE CAINE MUTINY).  He really knows how to play them.    

QUICKSAND is quite possibly available online.

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21 hours ago, Hoganman1 said:

I thought it was OK. I hadn't seen it before Sunday. I actually thought Greenstreet was very good. I'm a huge Bogart fan, but prefer it when he's the good guy. Like Eddie said the plot was similar to The Two Mrs. Carrolls. Also, they didn't do much to develop Alexis Smith's character. Clearly it wasn't one of Bogart's best films, but still I found it entertaining.

But then I'll wager, neither did Alexis Smith.

I'm sorry. She was just on in something on TCM yesterday with Jane Wyman and Eve Arden as Katherine Hepburn as Greta Garbo in NINOTCHKA and she was okay, but for the most part she leaves me cold.

**except i buy her completely as the possessive, jealous girlfriend in THE CONSTANT NYMPH.

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