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5 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

The other drawback was that while he appeared interested in anything in a skirt I don't recall him ever succeeding with one.      

I put that down to the show itself and not any lack of success with the opposite sex.

Paul Drake was a supporting character and the focus was on the murder and the

court dramatics around it, so there wasn't much time to delve into Drake's love life.

I imagine there were at least a few shows where Drake escorted a pretty thing on a

date during the finale. 

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22 hours ago, Vautrin said:

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I always enjoyed William Hopper as Paul Drake. A little

hip, cool threads, nonchalant manner, might be a

party animal when not working 24/6 for Perry. Only

drawback was he often had a cig in his mouth.

Paul Drake is my favorite character in the series and I think Hopper does it very well.  He did a couple of SciFy movies that are fairly good.  I believe he retired to Palm Springs after the series ended and died at about age 55.

As for the cigs, that was probably required by the advertiser.  Perry is sometimes seen smoking them or lighting them, etc.  We forget that many TV shows were sponsored by cigarette companies and they usually insisted their products be used by the actors.  Of course, smoking was common back then also.

My wife and I have observed that Drake probably had a very dull social life and almost starved.  Every time he got a date or was eating, Perry would call him and tell him to go do something immediately.

I recently read one of the original Perry Mason books by Erle Stanley Gardner.  Mason and Drake were not as straight arrow in the books as in the TV shows.  For example Mason had no problems telling Drake to go rough up a witness or someone else or to manipulate evidence.  Of course the books were written in the 1930's also.

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15 hours ago, Vautrin said:

I put that down to the show itself and not any lack of success with the opposite sex.

Paul Drake was a supporting character and the focus was on the murder and the

court dramatics around it, so there wasn't much time to delve into Drake's love life.

I imagine there were at least a few shows where Drake escorted a pretty thing on a

date during the finale. 

Only the client or someone who helped with the case.

You could wonder about Della even more as she is never seen dating other than accompanying Perry in "business" related activities.  Perry would take her out to dinner and lunch, but that seemed to as payment for working so hard.

In the movies, and I think in the books, there was a personal relationship between Perry and Della and he married her in one of the William Warren movies.
 

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15 hours ago, Vautrin said:

I put that down to the show itself and not any lack of success with the opposite sex.

Paul Drake was a supporting character and the focus was on the murder and the

court dramatics around it, so there wasn't much time to delve into Drake's love life.

I imagine there were at least a few shows where Drake escorted a pretty thing on a

date during the finale. 

Again,  I don't recall Drake escorting a pretty thing on a date during the finale.   Instead what I do recall is him wanting to do that AND being clearly blow off by the women.  

Even Maxwell Smart had better luck with the ladies.  

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10 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Again,  I don't recall Drake escorting a pretty thing on a date during the finale.   Instead what I do recall is him wanting to do that AND being clearly blow off by the women.  

Even Maxwell Smart had better luck with the ladies.  

Can't recall which ones, but he definitely did leave during the finale headed for a date in some.  In a couple he was even escorting his date out of Perry's office or leaving to meet her as part of the finale.  Perry and Della often joked about his social life as being fairly active, except when Perry needed him.

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3 hours ago, TheCid said:

Paul Drake is my favorite character in the series and I think Hopper does it very well.  He did a couple of SciFy movies that are fairly good.  I believe he retired to Palm Springs after the series ended and died at about age 55.

As for the cigs, that was probably required by the advertiser.  Perry is sometimes seen smoking them or lighting them, etc.  We forget that many TV shows were sponsored by cigarette companies and they usually insisted their products be used by the actors.  Of course, smoking was common back then also.

My wife and I have observed that Drake probably had a very dull social life and almost starved.  Every time he got a date or was eating, Perry would call him and tell him to go do something immediately.

I recently read one of the original Perry Mason books by Erle Stanley Gardner.  Mason and Drake were not as straight arrow in the books as in the TV shows.  For example Mason had no problems telling Drake to go rough up a witness or someone else or to manipulate evidence.  Of course the books were written in the 1930's also.

If I recall it correctly he also played Natalie Wood's dad in Rebel Without a Cause and the dad

of the lethal brat in The Bad Seed.  I had forgotten about the tobacco companies sponsoring

many TV show back then. Perry would light up occasionally too, but I don't remember Della smoking. 

Yeah, Perry really kept him on his toes. Paul, I'd like you to fly down to Antarctica and see if

you can get a footprint of big foot. Okay. From what I recall, in the first few seasons of the

TV program they were a little bit on the shady side if that was needed. After that they seemed to

be more strict in obeying the letter of the law. Perry and Della were even more hands off than

Matt Dillon and Miss Kitty.

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3 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Again,  I don't recall Drake escorting a pretty thing on a date during the finale.   Instead what I do recall is him wanting to do that AND being clearly blow off by the women.  

Even Maxwell Smart had better luck with the ladies.  

It didn't happen that often, but when they're all together at the finale, I seem to recall

Paul occasionally leaving with a pretty thing for dinner. Maybe the ladies felt sorry for

Maxwell Smart.

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* Spoilers for The Man Who Cheated Himself *

Do I have the sequence of events right?  Please correct me if not.

- Lois Frazer finds the gun her husband bought and later uses it to murder her husband
- Lt. Cullen takes the gun and throws it off the bridge
- Fisherman finds the gun and takes it home
- Fisherman’s wife puts the gun in the kitchen drawer
- Fisherman’s son uses the gun in a robbery
- Fisherman’s son puts the gun back in the drawer?
- Fisherman’s wife pawns the gun
- Police pick up the gun from the pawn shop
(There was some talk of two guns having the same ballistics but weren’t they the same gun?)
- Lt. Cullen was trying to pin both crimes on the same weapon (at first he thought there were two guns)
- Lt. Cullen’s brother figured out that the Fisherman’s son couldn’t do both crimes based on when the gun was found by the Fisherman.

P.S. - Who knew The Man Who Cheated Himself has visual effects? ?

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Once again the noxious spam has taken over the boards. The only way I was able to get to this thread was to click my own profile and find a post I'd written recently for "Noir Alley" and click on it. This "Noir Alley" thread is probably about 20 pages in...

I have to say, I HATE the spam thing. I know we all do. But what really gets me about it is, I cannot fathom what possible purpose it serves for whoever is doing it, whether it's a human being, or a "bot", or a human being programming the "bot".  All it does is make it extremely frustrating and off-putting for us board members who want to post here. 

Shirley the spammer doesn't profit from it in any way?? So why do they do it?

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Ok, "The ManWho Cheated Himself". Notes:

Yes, I have to agree with all who have observed that Jane Wyatt has no sex appeal, and that it's hard to imagine her seducing anyone into doing anything for her. It's interesting, it's hard to pin down what makes a woman in these movies seductive and attractive, certainly enough to persuade normally "decent" men to break the law for them. I mean, it's not technically "beauty", since Babs Stanwyck is not as "pretty" as Jane Wyatt. I love Miss Stanwyck, but she is not what is "traditionally" called "beautiful" or even "pretty". Same with Joan Crawford. What these woman do have is a kind of magnetism, appeal, that makes you think they're beautiful while you're watching them. It doesn't matter if they're actually beautiful or not, they come across as irresistibly attractive, you believe they are, and that's what makes them credible "femmes fatales".

Now back to Jane Wyatt:  While technically, she's "prettier" than either Joan or Barbara (and others), you just don't believe she has the kind of strength of personality which would give her power over men. She's lightweight.  (And I don't mean her figure, although she is certainly trim and slim. )

This "lightweight" quality may explain why we're not convinced that Lt. Ed would go to such lengths to cover up her murder. There's no chemistry between Wyatt and Cobb. I just don't believe that he's head over heels in love, or even in lust, with her.

Anyway, other than that small flaw with the film, I really enjoyed "The Man Who Cheated Himself". Funny thing is, I'd seen it before and been unimpressed with it. I have a collection of obscure noirs on a sketchy DVD set I picked up in the early 2000s. I suspect the set's just barely legal - maybe back then nobody was as concerned with "rights" as they seem to be now. Regardless, I saw quite a few rare and little-known noirs thanks to that dubious DVD set, including this one. But I remember not liking "The Man Who Cheated Himself" that much with that earlier viewing. This time around, I found it very engaging.

The best thing about the film is the final scene, rather a long one for a noir made in 1950. I absolutely love that setting, the abandoned courtyard / prison/ whatthehellisitanyway?  anyway that mysterious place where Cobb and Wyatt hide out in tower while John Dall, who's convinced they're there somewhere, searches for them. Eddie was right to give kudos to the cinematographer, Russell Harlan. That scene alone would justify the entire movie; it's deliciously atmospheric and, well, noirish. I gather it's the same place where Kim Novak's character meets her fate in Vertigo, eight years later. But I didn't really recognize it, the tower looks different to me. 

It's the long shots of Dall walking through the corridors of this mystery place, and the silence - no soundtrack music, all you hear is the wind - that's so memorable. It's what one of my noir books calls a "terrain vague" : a nowhereland, a strange unpopulated place where the protagonist  - or the "bad guy" - usually meets his end. They're just eerie empty spaces, often old factories or warehouses, but also railway junctions or even amusement parks  (as in the ferris wheel in "The Third Man" or the Hall of Mirrors in "The Lady from Shanghai".)  I love these mysterious obscure places, they're one of my favourite things about noir.

 

Related image

What is this place?

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22 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Ok, "The ManWho Cheated Himself". Notes:

Yes, I have to agree with all who have observed that Jane Wyatt has no sex appeal, and that it's hard to imagine her seducing anyone into doing anything for her. It's interesting, it's hard to pin down what makes a woman in these movies seductive and attractive, certainly enough to persuade normally "decent" men to break the law for them. I mean, it's not technically "beauty", since Babs Stanwyck is not as "pretty" as Jane Wyatt. I love Miss Stanwyck, but she is not what is "traditionally" called "beautiful" or even "pretty". Same with Joan Crawford. What these woman do have is a kind of magnetism, appeal, that makes you think they're beautiful while you're watching them. It doesn't matter if they're actually beautiful or not, they come across as irresistibly attractive, you believe they are, and that's what makes them credible "femmes fatales". 

Now back to Jane Wyatt:  While technically, she's "prettier" than either Joan or Barbara (and others), you just don't believe she has the kind of strength of personality which would give her power over men. She's lightweight.  (And I don't mean her figure, although she is certainly trim and slim. ) 

This "lightweight" quality may explain why we're not convinced that Lt. Ed would go to such lengths to cover up her murder. There's no chemistry between Wyatt and Cobb. I just don't believe that he's head over heels in love, or even in lust, with her.

 

It's odd that you would point this out, because I have always found it hard to believe Mary Astor had that same power over men, and they cast her as vampish bad girls quite a bit.  Ms. Astor always looked a bit frumpy even when she was 20 years old. However, she was a fine actress.  Sorry to offend your avatar.

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1 hour ago, misswonderly3 said:

Ok, "The ManWho Cheated Himself". Notes:

Yes, I have to agree with all who have observed that Jane Wyatt has no sex appeal, and that it's hard to imagine her seducing anyone into doing anything for her. It's interesting, it's hard to pin down what makes a woman in these movies seductive and attractive, certainly enough to persuade normally "decent" men to break the law for them. I mean, it's not technically "beauty". It doesn't matter if they're actually beautiful or not, they come across as irresistibly attractive, you believe they are, and that's what makes them credible "femmes fatales".

Jane Wyatt:  While technically, you just don't believe she has the kind of strength of personality which would give her power over men. She's lightweight.  

This "lightweight" quality may explain why we're not convinced that Lt. Ed would go to such lengths to cover up her murder. There's no chemistry between Wyatt and Cobb. I just don't believe that he's head over heels in love, or even in lust, with her.

Anyway, other than that small flaw with the film, I really enjoyed "The Man Who Cheated Himself". Funny thing is, I'd seen it before and been unimpressed with it. 

The best thing about the film is the final scene, rather a long one for a noir made in 1950. I absolutely love that setting, the abandoned courtyard / prison/ whatthehellisitanyway?  anyway that mysterious place where Cobb and Wyatt hide out in tower while John Dall, who's convinced they're there somewhere, searches for them. Eddie was right to give kudos to the cinematographer, Russell Harlan. That scene alone would justify the entire movie; it's deliciously atmospheric and, well, noirish. I gather it's the same place where Kim Novak's character meets her fate in Vertigo, eight years later. But I didn't really recognize it, the tower looks different to me. 

It's the long shots of Dall walking through the corridors of this mystery place, and the silence - no soundtrack music, all you hear is the wind - that's so memorable. It's what one of my noir books calls a "terrain vague" : a nowhereland, a strange unpopulated place where the protagonist  - or the "bad guy" - usually meets his end. They're just eerie empty spaces, often old factories or warehouses, but also railway junctions or even amusement parks  (as in the ferris wheel in "The Third Man" or the Hall of Mirrors in "The Lady from Shanghai".)  I love these mysterious obscure places, they're one of my favourite things about noir.

 

Related image

What is this place?

As they said in the movie, it is Ft. Point.  An abandoned 19th century Army fort at foot of Golden Gate bridge.

While I enjoyed the movie, I found Dall's abilities to be a little exaggerated.  He must be the most brilliant detective in the world - ever.  Also, it would have taken him days to go through each of the rooms in Ft. Point, yet he supposedly did it in less than an hour, if that.  Even though he never found them, he still knew they were there and called in all those other police that Cobb never saw coming down the only road in.

Of course, if Jane Wyatt's lawyer is any good, she gets off on self-defense and Cobb gets off on mishandling a body.  Then all three take off together.

The movie either did not allow time or the director failed to develop the relationship between Cobb and Wyatt.  The hints are there.  Then again, Cobb is not a romantic lead in anything I have ever seen him in.  In a better film, there would have been something on how Cobb and Wyatt got involved, but then again there were lots of hints about him being a womanizer.  So we do not know how he met Wyatt or how much her millions played into his attraction to her.

I liked the ending scene in the courthouse where Wyatt is promising her lawyer a share of her millions to get her off and then Cobb offers a cigarette.  She has that interesting smile which says - yeah I know I told you I loved you and you helped with the murder, but you know, a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do.  And Cobb just smiles back as in - ain't it the truth.

The Cars:  Cobb's was a Nash, which was very popular with police departments and movies about police.  Dall's wife's car was a Nash Rambler.  Essentially the beginning of the compact car in America though there were others that were not as successful.

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Lee J. Cobb is no Cary Grant, so I'm sure he would be happy that a woman like

Wyatt would go out with him. And then the old softie fell in love with her. I

never really minded Cobb's overacting. You soon realize it goes with the Cobb

territory and learn to accept it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I

wondered what would have happened at the trial. Cobb would be guilty of

accessory after the fact and obstruction of justice at the least. Of course he

would have been kicked out of the police department, but I don't think he

would have spent too many years in prison. But Wyatt might have said that

Cobb killed her hubby and she was an innocent bystander. I wouldn't put it

past her. I just happened to see John Dall on an episode of Perry Mason

last week where he played a shady art dealer.

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5 hours ago, calvinnme said:

It's odd that you would point this out, because I have always found it hard to believe Mary Astor had that same power over men, and they cast her as vampish bad girls quite a bit.  Ms. Astor always looked a bit frumpy even when she was 20 years old. However, she was a fine actress.  Sorry to offend your avatar.

Agree a bowser.

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Re: Dick Powell in his noir films.  I like Powell in his noir films, I don't find him dull as any type of water.  I like how he delivers his lines and I think he performs his parts very well.  I started watching Pitfall last week while I was on my business trip in California, but I fell asleep.  Not the fault of the film--I was tired.  I did manage to watch Cry Danger last week without falling asleep and I enjoyed it--especially Jean Porter.  

Re: Mary Astor.  Wow, I've never thought of her as homely or frumpy or any other type of negative adjective.  While she isn't an obvious type of beautiful, I like her look.  I thought she was glamorous in The Maltese Falcon and I also thought she was pretty in Meet Me in St. Louis, especially at the end when she dons her gorgeous white dress to go to the World's Fair.  Her dress was by far the best dress of any of the other women in the scene. 

When watching classic film, I find myself liking a lot of the less conventional beauties and thinking they were very pretty.  In addition to Astor, I think both Bette Davis and Barbara Stanwyck were also very pretty.  Nowadays, every movie stars a beautiful blonde starlet, and they are all completely interchangeable--nothing memorable.  It's a very generic type beauty. 

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5 hours ago, calvinnme said:

It's odd that you would point this out, because I have always found it hard to believe Mary Astor had that same power over men, and they cast her as vampish bad girls quite a bit.  Ms. Astor always looked a bit frumpy even when she was 20 years old. However, she was a fine actress.  Sorry to offend your avatar.

I'm not a bit offended. I don't agree that Mary Astor was "frumpy" or a "bowser", as cigarjoe says. (Hey, cigarjoe, I looked up "bowser", never having heard the term before, but couldn't find any definition relating to an unattractive woman. However, I figured you meant "bowser" as in "bow wow" as in, she's a dog.)

I don't think she was a jaw-droppingly beautiful babe, but nor do I see her as a "dog". However, I've noticed that here on the boards many men do seem to perceive her that way; she'd never be voted in the top 20 (or possibly even top 100) sexiest woman of the classic Hollywood era. I like her, I like her acting, her persona, her style, and most of the movies I've seen her in.  "That said", I'm not a hard-core devoted Mary Astor fan, so criticism of her looks (or anything else about her) doesn't bother me.

Actually, since we're talking about this, I'll just say that the reason I chose that avatar pic has nothing to do with Mary Astor herself; it's just that she played "Miss Wonderly", aka Brigid O'Shaughnessy, in "The Maltese Falcon"  ( as I'm sure everyone reading this knows.)  When I was deciding what "screen name" to use on these boards, way back years ago when I first joined the TCM message board community, I picked "Miss Wonderly" because I'd always thought it was a really funny name, so improbable, so obviously fake. I just liked the name, plus it was an obvious allusion to a great classic movie. I use that Mary Astor avatar because it's her as "Miss Wonderly", that's all.

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5 hours ago, TheCid said:

As they said in the movie, it is Ft. Point.  An abandoned 19th century Army fort at foot of Golden Gate bridge....

Well, I guess I missed that. I do listen pretty carefully to the dialogue in films, but of course there's always a moment sometimes when one doesn't hear a line or so, for whatever reason. For some reason I felt I was being gently reproved that I hadn't heard them say it was "Fort Point".

Anyway, it's a fantastic setting for that final scene. I hope it's still around, but wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't.

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Just a couple more comments about "The Man Who Cheated Himself":

John Dall is one of those actors who I like, even though he's not what you'd call a great actor. I find his screen presence likable  (well, maybe not so much in "Rope").He's extremely sympathetic in "Gun Crazy", for instance. I've heard that the director of "Gun Crazy", Joseph Lewis, wanted a gay actor to play the part of Bart Tare, not that the character is gay (he's definitely not), but because Lewis thought a gay actor like Dall would, perhaps even just unconsciously, project a kind of "differentness" and vulnerability the character is supposed to have. And I believe Dall does just that.

It's true, in "The Man Who Cheated Himself" Dall kind of smirks a lot, Eddie comments on that. But I don't mind a bit of smirking; anyway, he's supposed to be happy, at least for most of the movie, so why shouldn't he smile? He's got the promotion he wanted, he's working alongside his brother, and he's in love.

As for a plot point a couple of people here have mentioned, about the murder itself:  It is not at all clear what the husband, (Howard Frazer), intended to do when he returned home, more or less bursting in. Maybe he did mean to kill his wife, since he knew she was planning to change her will and quite likely wanted to stop her from doing this  (we can assume her will at the time of action left everything to her husband.) And he had left the gun there, hidden in his "den" (or whatever that room is). He did not notice the bill of sale that had dropped onto the floor before he burned all the other evidence of the gun purchase, so from his point of view, his wife was unaware that he had a gun there at all. Plus we saw him tamper with the balcony door, presumably with the intention of enabling him to enter Lois' home unexpectedly, possibly grab his newly purchased gun, and shoot her. His plane ticket could be his alibi.  

Oh, I dunno....I'm just saying, although Lois flipped out and killed the man without waiting to find out why he'd returned, it does look as though he might very well have been planning to murder her. So she could theoretically have pleaded self-defence.

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I definitely enjoyed The Man Who Cheated Himself, despite the script problems, the improbability of the gun's history, with the Cobb and Wyatt characters underwritten and John Dall being almost psychic in solving the crime. The location shots in San Francisco were great, and Russell Harlan's cinematography was outstanding. Seeing Cobb and Wyatt in atypical roles was a plus, even if they didn't completely work. Felix Feist is a very capable director.

The story of Lisa Howard, as related by Eddie Muller in the outro, was fascinating, as she went from aspiring actress to newscaster to backchannel to Cuba to Castro's mistress (or fling) to pariah status to suicide. That would indeed make an interesting movie.

 

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Lee J. Cobb was so much better as the heavy in JULES DASSIN'S THIEVES HIGHWAY 1949.  He  is so miscast in this one.  If anybody saw Thieves Highway you will know the difference.  In Thieves Highway, he menaces Richard Conte to the hilt by stealing his produce load.  He is extremely convincing there. I wish Eddie would show Thieves Highway on TCM.

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8 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

I'm not a bit offended. I don't agree that Mary Astor was "frumpy" or a "bowser", as cigarjoe says. (Hey, cigarjoe, I looked up "bowser", never having heard the term before, but couldn't find any definition relating to an unattractive woman. However, I figured you meant "bowser" as in "bow wow" as in, she's a dog.)

I don't think she was a jaw-droppingly beautiful babe, but nor do I see her as a "dog". However, I've noticed that here on the boards many men do seem to perceive her that way; she'd never be voted in the top 20 (or possibly even top 100) sexiest woman of the classic Hollywood era. I like her, I like her acting, her persona, her style, and most of the movies I've seen her in.  "That said", I'm not a hard-core devoted Mary Astor fan, so criticism of her looks (or anything else about her) doesn't bother me.

Actually, since we're talking about this, I'll just say that the reason I chose that avatar pic has nothing to do with Mary Astor herself; it's just that she played "Miss Wonderly", aka Brigid O'Shaughnessy, in "The Maltese Falcon"  ( as I'm sure everyone reading this knows.)  When I was deciding what "screen name" to use on these boards, way back years ago when I first joined the TCM message board community, I picked "Miss Wonderly" because I'd always thought it was a really funny name, so improbable, so obviously fake. I just liked the name, plus it was an obvious allusion to a great classic movie. I use that Mary Astor avatar because it's her as "Miss Wonderly", that's all.

"Bowser" was a word one of my little cousins made up years ago, lol, I prefer Bebe Daniels in the original Maltese Falcon to Mary Astor.

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This is off topic, but here is a clip from THE PRE CODE RED DUST 1932, WHERE MARY ASTOR SHOOTS CLARK GABLE. You will find her manipulating the men in her life. by playing sweet and innocent.  The shooting happens 2 minutes into the video. MS Astor was a great actress that never got her proper due.  Sorry about the poor video.

 

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Actually, I think possibly the person got "Bowser" confused with either(or both) "Blowsy"  or "Frowsy".  

And Joe, your "little cousin" must really be long in the tooth, as "Bowser" has long been a stereotypical canine name, like "Fido" for an equal amount of time.  And remember......

"Bowser" is the nickname of that goofy guy in SHA NA NA.(JON BAUMAN)  ;)

Then again, maybe your cousins are Australian as the word is also the name of a company there that made gasoline pumps and also became the slang term there for them.

Sepiatone

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