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Noir Alley

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2 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

Thanks for the info, and good God I hope Barbara Hale wasn't also there.

But was Raymond Burr?

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Stop whining about your dead partner, McGraw. Instead of ducking for cover,

he just stood here and practically said Shoot me. Someone that stupid almost

deserves to get wasted. You see it all the time in TV westerns. Some dope is

hiding behind a rock and then, for no good reason, just steps out into the open

so Marshall Dillon can shoot him. Get a clue, will ya?

I thought Talman was pretty good as the head cheese. He was mean but not psychotic.

Compared to most of these heist jokers, he did fairly well. Of course we know that in the

end he won't get away with it, but I was still rooting for him. One of those a job well done

salutes. I remember reading about Talman's legal trouble before, but I always forget the

details. Nude party? The thought of Hamilton Burger in the nude is a pretty disturbing

thought picture, though not as disturbing as Lt. Arthur Tragg in his birthday suit.

If I paid money to see Adele Jergens "act," I'd immediately go to the management to get my

money back. I know it's 1950, but this thing is about as sexy as a dental appointment.

And comparing her to Virginia Mayo? Are you out of yr freaking mind?

 

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3 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Virginia Mayo !  Yes !  She actually looks more like Virgina Mayo than like Rhonda Fleming. Maybe that's who I was thinking of all along.  Thanks, cmovieview !

Adele Jergens:

Image result for adele jergens

 

Virginia Mayo:

Image result for virginia mayo

 

 

Rhonda Fleming:

Image result for rhonda fleming

When I saw Adele in ACR, I thought she looked almost exactly like Virginia Mayo.  I'm glad others saw the resemblance, too.

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I cannot understand why many of you think CHARLES MCGRAW IS A GOOD ACTOR.  HE ISN'T. he stinks as an actor. Eddie is wrong about this and the so-called talent of Marie Windsor.  If you want to see terrific acting, you need to re-check RICHARD BASEHART'S  chilling performance in "HE WALKED BY NIGHT". Basehart is one of the best AND more versatile, who never got his due.  Also, check what he does in TENSION, WHERE HE PLAYS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the character in HE WALKED BY NIGHT. I would recommend that instead of the ARMORED CAR ROBBERY.

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1 hour ago, Vautrin said:

 

And comparing her to Virginia Mayo? Are you out of yr freaking mind?

 

Now, now, Vautrin. See how many people (well, 3 anyway)think Adele bears a striking resemblance to Virginia. I know you've always liked the Mayo, and so do I. And nobody's saying Adele Jergens (wonder if she was related to that skin cream company? ) is in the same league as Virginia when it comes to acting (not that V.M. was Ethel Barrymore or anything, but she could act, and she had a lot of screen presence.  I mean, I like her too...)

We're just saying, they look alike. And they do. Did you take a look at the pics I posted?

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24 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Now, now, Vautrin. See how many people (well, 3 anyway)think Adele bears a striking resemblance to Virginia. I know you've always liked the Mayo, and so do I. And nobody's saying Adele Jergens (wonder if she was related to that skin cream company? ) is in the same league as Virginia when it comes to acting (not that V.M. was Ethel Barrymore or anything, but she could act, and she had a lot of screen presence.  I mean, I like her too...)

We're just saying, they look alike. And they do. Did you take a look at the pics I posted?

Count me in on that MissW. I was going to post that this morning watching Armed Car Robbery, although as Dargo wrote I've also always thought there was a striking resemblance

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SPOILER RE ARMORED CAR ROBBERY:

Can anyone explain to me the bit in the final scene of the movie? Where Charles McGraw is reading from a detective magazine to his young partner in the hospital, and then they both start laughing and McGraw humorously tosses the magazine away?

 It seemed like a reference to something earlier in the film that I must've missed when I looked away for a minute.

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9 minutes ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

SPOILER RE ARMORED CAR ROBBERY:

Can anyone explain to me the bit in the final scene of the movie? Where Charles McGraw is reading from a detective magazine to his young partner in the hospital, and then they both start laughing and McGraw humorously tosses the magazine away?

 It seemed like a reference to something earlier in the film that I must've missed when I looked away for a minute.

It's easy to miss a minute or even a few seconds of dialogue in these movies, and then it can be confusing.

Not a magazine, it's a newspaper story. So, the young partner is recovering in the hospital. McGraw (who now respects this guy) walks in and tells him something like "Hey, you're a hero, did you see you were in the paper?"  Not those words, but something like that. The young partner expresses interest, and the two of them scan over the article together. And while the article is about the capture of the heist leader, and presumably a story about the whole incident, it does not mention either McGraw's character nor the partner's until the very end, where it just names them. They're laughing because there's no fame or glory at all for them in this article,  just business as usual being good cops.

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mayovirginia.jpg

Adele who?

 

I do see a slight resemblance, but I'm sticking with VM.

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Richard Fleicher did not want to stay directing B Pictures . ......

.....I forgot to mention 10 Rillington Place (1971) that FLEICHER DIRECTED WITH A YOUNG RICHARD ATTENBOROUGH. I suppose that would be calLED NEO-NOIR TODAY.

  On 6/29/2018 at 7:07 AM, arpirose said:

 

I kind of don't want to get into this, but I can't seem to stop myself:  I would not call "10 Rillington Place" a noir of any kind, "neo" or otherwise. I don't regard movies about psychotic sex killers as "noirs" - some of them might be good movies, and they're certainly dark, but they are in a different category from noir. 

You are wrong about this one.

Excuse me, but 10 Rillington place was based on a true story.  The murders really happened.  It was not from the imagination of a fiction writer. That is why it is chilling. You have to give Fleicher credit for making the story come to life.  There are noir elements in the story.  First of all, the police arrested the wrong man, Evans, who was eventually convicted and executed. The police used bad investigative techniques to get a false conviction from Evans, who was a poor, working class stiff while the real killer Christie walked.  He evaded police scrutiny until the mid 1960s, when the police realized that Evans was not the killer, but Christie was. This story is in a nutshell.  So do not call this  film, which accuritly presents the case and homicide a non Noir. A little digging about the case goes a long way.

It is a nightmare that occurs more frequently in today's world.  If anybody watches DISCOVERY ID,You will see these stories told in vivid detail.

 

That thread about who looks like Virginia Mayo happens to be  so stupid for people who have intelligence to be carrying on about.

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Can anyone explain to me the bit in the final scene of the movie? Where Charles McGraw is reading from a detective magazine to his young partner in the hospital, and then they both start laughing and McGraw humorously tosses the magazine away?

 It seemed like a reference to something earlier in the film that I must've missed when I looked away for a minute.

 

Pardon me, but what a lame FINAL SCENE. It is attributed to poor writing.

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18 hours ago, TheCid said:

But was Raymond Burr?

LOL!!!

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I was mistaken in that it was a magazine, not a newspaper. But other than that, I think I more or less explained that seemingly problematic ending.  (Not that it needed much explaining.)

airprose said:

."Pardon me, but what a lame FINAL SCENE. It is attributed to poor writing."

Well, I don't know about that. I was thinking a lot of the writing in ACR was pretty darn good. Eddie M. seemed to think so, too, he gave us a little bio about the screen writer.

However, I'm aware that in several people's opinion, Eddie Muller is a fake, a fraud, and a foney. I'm not one of them, I enjoy his Noir Alley presentations.

 

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Why is NOIR ALLEY EMPHAS

IS is on third rate films and third rate actors.  Last year, Eddie showcased quality noir. This year he is featuring stinkers such as ARMORED CAR ROBBERY,  

THIS FOR EDDIE TO SEE, Why not show THIS GUN FOR HIRE, BLUE DAHLIA, I WAKE UP SCREAMING, THIEVES HIGHWAY , THE KILLERS AND OTHER WORTHY NOIR FILMS.

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15 hours ago, arpirose said:

I cannot understand why many of you think CHARLES MCGRAW IS A GOOD ACTOR.  HE ISN'T. he stinks as an actor. Eddie is wrong about this and the so-called talent of Marie Windsor.  If you want to see terrific acting, you need to re-check RICHARD BASEHART'S  chilling performance in "HE WALKED BY NIGHT". Basehart is one of the best AND more versatile, who never got his due.  Also, check what he does in TENSION, WHERE HE PLAYS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the character in HE WALKED BY NIGHT. I would recommend that instead of the ARMORED CAR ROBBERY.

You know, airprose, it doesn't have to be a case of "either" /"or".  I love all three of these noirs, ie, "Armoured Car Robbery,", "He Walked by Night", and "Tension". I agree that the latter two are probably  better movies and better stories, but that doesn't mean we have to diss "Armoured Car Robbery".  Noir apples and oranges.

I also agree with you about Richard Basehart, a truly great actor and one who's never really been given his due. Have you seen his touching performance in "La Strada"? But again, I'm not sure I see any reason to compare his acting to people like Charles McGraw or Marie Windsor.

It's as if you kind of resent any credit being given to actors or movies you don't like, as though you think it takes away from the ones you do like.  Not so.

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2 hours ago, arpirose said:

Richard Fleicher did not want to stay directing B Pictures . ......

.....I forgot to mention 10 Rillington Place (1971) that FLEICHER DIRECTED WITH A YOUNG RICHARD ATTENBOROUGH. I suppose that would be calLED NEO-NOIR TODAY.

  On 6/29/2018 at 7:07 AM, arpirose said:

 

I kind of don't want to get into this, but I can't seem to stop myself:  I would not call "10 Rillington Place" a noir of any kind, "neo" or otherwise. I don't regard movies about psychotic sex killers as "noirs" - some of them might be good movies, and they're certainly dark, but they are in a different category from noir. 

You are wrong about this one.

Excuse me, but 10 Rillington place was based on a true story.  The murders really happened.  It was not from the imagination of a fiction writer. That is why it is chilling. You have to give Fleicher credit for making the story come to life.  There are noir elements in the story.  First of all, the police arrested the wrong man, Evans, who was eventually convicted and executed. The police used bad investigative techniques to get a false conviction from Evans, who was a poor, working class stiff while the real killer Christie walked.  He evaded police scrutiny until the mid 1960s, when the police realized that Evans was not the killer, but Christie was. This story is in a nutshell.  So do not call this  film, which accuritly presents the case and homicide a non Noir. A little digging about the case goes a long way.

It is a nightmare that occurs more frequently in today's world.  If anybody watches DISCOVERY ID,You will see these stories told in vivid detail.

 

 

airprose, your posts are extremely confusing because you don't use the quote functon, so it's difficult to decipher just what in your posts is what you're saying, and what someone else has said, to which you are responding.

If the quote function is too difficult to navigate ( and sometimes I too have trouble with this stuff), then please at least  put quotation marks around what the other person has said, or use italics, or something.

Glad we got that out of the way.

So, I actually managed to figure out that you were quoting part of a comment I'd made about how I define noir, made a couple of pages back. I'm glad you responded to it, nobody else did.

You don't have to say "Excuse me", everytime you disagree with someone. And I am fully aware that "10 Rillington Place" is based on a true story. I already knew that when I posted about it. I don't remember saying anything about it being from "the imagination of a noir writer". However, I stand by my earlier post - which said nothing about whether noir has to be pure fiction or not, that's a whole other topic.

So what if the police arrested the wrong man and used bad investigative techniques? I already knew all that, please don't condescend to me. Just because the original actual event and the ensuing film made about it includes these features doesn't make it noir to me.  And try to be a little more good-natured, we like to have fun on this thread.

 

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Charles McGraw and Marie Windsor are very good actors.  As good as Richard Basehart for sure.  I have always found both He Walked By Night and Richard Basehart kind of boring.  Although he did OK in Tension.

As for the final scene, it is very appropriate for this type movie.  Well directed, well acted, well written, well photographed.  What more can you say.

And no movie, book or TV show related to this genre is true to the facts.  All of them are written based on the writer's viewpoints.

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I cannot understand why many of you think CHARLES MCGRAW IS A GOOD ACTOR.  HE ISN'T. he stinks as an actor. Eddie is wrong about this and the so-called talent of Marie Windsor.  If you want to see terrific acting, you need to re-check RICHARD BASEHART'S  chilling performance in "HE WALKED BY NIGHT". Basehart is one of the best AND more versatile, who never got his due.  Also, check what he does in TENSION, WHERE HE PLAYS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE of the character in HE WALKED BY NIGHT. I would recommend that instead of the ARMORED CAR ROBBERY.

You know, airprose, it doesn't have to be a case of "either" /"or".  I love all three of these noirs, ie, "Armoured Car Robbery,", "He Walked by Night", and "Tension". I agree that the latter two are probably  better movies and better stories, but that doesn't mean we have to diss "Armoured Car Robbery".  Noir apples and oranges.

I also agree with you about Richard Basehart, a truly great actor and one who's never really been given his due. Have you seen his touching performance in "La Strada"? But again, I'm not sure I see any reason to compare his acting to people like Charles McGraw or Marie Windsor.

I stand by my statement.  A good actor is a good actor. Bad one is a bad actor, You cannot change things.  We can agree to disagree.  Please, do not get personal. You do not know me to make judgements.

 

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23 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

I kind of don't want to get into this, but I can't seem to stop myself:  I would not call "10 Rillington Place" a noir of any kind, "neo" or otherwise. I don't regard movies about psychotic sex killers as "noirs" - some of them might be good movies, and they're certainly dark, but they are in a different category from noir.

Noir, for me anyway, is never about compulsive serial sex murderers. It's a particularly nasty topic which doesn't belong in the noir world.

I've noticed that a lot of people seem to think that anything with nastiness, with murder and weird sex in it, is a film noir. That is not my idea of noir at all, and if you read any of the original writings about the idea of film noir (you know, those French guys in the late 1950s,  Cahiers du Cinema and all that), they don't say much about that stuff. Just because it's dark and there's a killing (or several) in a film, doesn't necessarily make it a "noir".

I know cigarjoe has a theory about this, how different people have different responses to "dark" films, depending on their own personal history, personality, and sensitivities. He says each individual's response to a film (or I suppose, any work of fiction for that matter) is like a "tuning fork", and they will "pick up" different aspects of the film according to their own personal set of emotions and ideas.  This is an extremely interesting theory that I do kind of subscribe to, and I appreciate cigarjoe's telling us about it  (which he has, a few times.)

Still, horrid sex murders and characters like the Richard Attenborough one in "10 Rillington Place" will never hold a place in my tuning fork noir world.

"That said",  "10 Rillington Place" is a good movie. I just can't watch it, it's too horrible. (and it's not a noir.)

I'm going to do something that's kind of in bad form (because it looks egotistical). I'm going to  quote one of my own posts, one I wrote here a couple of pages back. I was surprised nobody except airbrush responded to it, since it's about my idea of what noir is and what it is not. 

But maybe everyone's sick of that topic, I can understand that. Anyway, here's what I said. Any thoughts?

(I can't seem to reverse this - I wanted my little explanatory post to come before my quote, not after. But I couldn't get it to do that.)

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I realized a while back that the definition of Noir is similar to the definition of ‘Classic’ or topics in politics where everyone is free to have their own view of what their opinions are and there can be no end to the discussion.  So I basically surrender and the distinctions aren’t that important to me.  I must also admit that I have not taken the time to read any academic discussions that try to define it (my own loss, I’m sure - maybe eventually.)

In my mind, though, I do have a concept of a Noir film that I use for reference, and I would say that I agree with you that it does not have to contain extremely nasty crimes to qualify and that in and of itself does not make it Noir.  There obviously does need to be some type of crime at the center of the story.  But for me the quality that these films have in common is that they include some commentary on the darker aspects of life (thus the literal French definition of noir) where people are coming up against some difficulty in the human condition.  Either through their own actions or the actions of others that force them to react to situations that most would say are against the commonly accepted behavior as defined by laws or civility.

What I don’t see in your post (and maybe it’s there in a previous message) is the way a Noir film looks.  For me it has to be in black & white, since I love how the great cinematographers are such a big part of the origins of Film Noir.  This also relates to the literal definition of Noir, in that the use of blacks and shadows in the image is quite distinctive and to me plays up the use of imagination to set both the physical look and mood of the scene in your mind.  Sorry for films made in color which certainly can have all the story elements and can have their own great cinematography, to me this isn’t really Film Noir.

And with my limited sophistication that’s about it.  Hope this doesn’t bore everyone to tears.

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21 hours ago, cmovieviewer said:

For me, the ecdysiast (let's keep it classy) reminded me of Virginia Mayo, but perhaps that's just a fantasy on my part.

If you want to call that pathetic act a striptease................

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He Walked by Night", and "Tension". I agree that the latter two are probably  better movies and better stories, but that doesn't mean we have to diss "Armoured Car Robbery".  Noir apples and oranges.

 

Sorry, I still say that Charles Mc Graw and Marie Wind are bad actors . SO SUE ME. You cannot be so arrogant While dissing someone else's opinion.  

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