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9 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

I guess they want to protect the millions of ten year olds who are on the site who

already know what it stands for. 

You cant argue with computer censor programs.......

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6 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Cid, I'm guessing that Hibi just meant she thought Desperate wasn't that good; maybe not even of "B" calibre, so she called it "C". I don't think she meant that there's literally a "C" rating.

Although, "that said", I liked the film. But I also like Hibi, and she's welcome to deem it a "C" film if that's how she feels about it.

If C meant a Condemned film by the Vatican in their Index, I would deem it a film definitely worth watching, Miss Wonderly!

I watched "Desperate" too, and can see why Hibi found it below B-grade. A lot of these films are being touted since some people probably are making money on them being recapitulated in boxed sets and sold again in the dvd market. It's a lot like when "Antique Roadshow" had the guy expert on who evaluated guns and rifles and was overestimating the worth of many of them, since he was friends with some people who were selling the items in a new market, and they were making money based on his overinflated values. I like Steve Brodie a lot, but "Desperate" was pretty typical B-fare for the time.

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1 hour ago, misswonderly3 said:

Ok, I will do my very best to be diplomatic about this.

Whenever people express concern about the amount of smoking  - and drinking, for that matter - depicted in old movies, I get frustrated. This is for two reasons:

1. It shows a lack of recognition, of understanding, that back then  people smoked and drank a lot more than they do now. Yes, I know, I'm aware that much of that cigarette smoking was because the tobacco companies back then openly lobbied the film industry to promote their products. But it doesn't matter to me; whatever the reason, be it a  heinous ulteriour motive to get ordinary people to smoke more, or just a reflection of the times, or a bit of both, I don't care. I actually kind of enjoy seeing them lighting up; often it's used as a bit of business, or to show a character is stressed; sometimes it's actually used as a romantic gesture, as in Paul Henreid lighting two cigarettes in "Now Voyager".  And then there's Sterling Hayden's police detective in "Crime Wave", who's actually trying to quit and chews on toothpicks to soothe his craving.

Whatever the reason - and sometimes there's none at all, it's just there as part of the mise-en-scene - I don't mind one bit. That was then, this is now. There are a great many things that have changed in our culture since the days those old noirs were made, recognizing how bad smoking is for us is one of them. Just "go with it".

2. At the risk of offending not only you but possibly other readers here, I would say there's a lot of self-righteous indignation going on these days about all kinds of things in movies. We have to recognize that films were not made then, nor are they now, to delineate morality or proper, healthier ways of  living (whatever that might be). I love it when the characters walk into someone's apartment and immediately light up and pour out some whiskey ! ( It always seems to be whiskey, for some reason. Either that, or champagne cocktails, if it's in a nightclub...) It's kind of fun. Plus, I can enjoy those "vices" vicariously, without inhaling nicotine or imbibing alcohol myself.

Honestly, why should we care if movies back then showed people drinking, smoking, or doing anything else for that matter that's not acceptable today ?  (Ok, I won't touch racism or sexism, that's a whole different dog biscuit. But even then I can see that stuff in old films and just recognize that these movies are decades old, people were unenlightened then. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the movie.)

Well said, Miss Wonderly!

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15 minutes ago, Hepburn Fan said:

My point had nothing to do with the movies. They are what they are. I grew up lighting cigarettes for ladies. I use to smoke. I simply don't favor the Noir Alley website being filled with smoke. It is part of the Noir theme I suppose. Not sure what makes Noir, Noir.

In Auntie Mame, it was Gin. I enjoy my hooch, by coincidence, Canadian Whisky.

Read about the debate Jack Warner had with John Huston about smoking while making the film The Maltese Falcon after Jack saw 'rushes'.     The Peter Lorre comments are funny (but not PC).

Smoking,  like neon lights,  shadowed alleys,  etc.. are part of the noir ambiance.   

E.g. Eddie's suit is 'dated' but matches what was hip at the time.

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1 hour ago, Hibi said:

You cant argue with computer censor programs.......

That's for sure, yet it seems that bastard is okay, which was a surprise to me the first time

I used it and it went though unscathed. 

 

Smoke on the Walter, a whisky in the Skye. 

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9 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Ok, I will do my very best to be diplomatic about this.

Whenever people express concern about the amount of smoking  - and drinking, for that matter - depicted in old movies, I get frustrated. This is for two reasons:

1. It shows a lack of recognition, of understanding, that back then  people smoked and drank a lot more than they do now. Yes, I know, I'm aware that much of that cigarette smoking was because the tobacco companies back then openly lobbied the film industry to promote their products. But it doesn't matter to me; whatever the reason, be it a  heinous ulteriour motive to get ordinary people to smoke more, or just a reflection of the times, or a bit of both, I don't care. I actually kind of enjoy seeing them lighting up; often it's used as a bit of business, or to show a character is stressed; sometimes it's actually used as a romantic gesture, as in Paul Henreid lighting two cigarettes in "Now Voyager".  And then there's Sterling Hayden's police detective in "Crime Wave", who's actually trying to quit and chews on toothpicks to soothe his craving.

Whatever the reason - and sometimes there's none at all, it's just there as part of the mise-en-scene - I don't mind one bit. That was then, this is now. There are a great many things that have changed in our culture since the days those old noirs were made, recognizing how bad smoking is for us is one of them. Just "go with it".

2. At the risk of offending not only you but possibly other readers here, I would say there's a lot of self-righteous indignation going on these days about all kinds of things in movies. We have to recognize that films were not made then, nor are they now, to delineate morality or proper, healthier ways of  living (whatever that might be). I love it when the characters walk into someone's apartment and immediately light up and pour out some whiskey ! ( It always seems to be whiskey, for some reason. Either that, or champagne cocktails, if it's in a nightclub...) It's kind of fun. Plus, I can enjoy those "vices" vicariously, without inhaling nicotine or imbibing alcohol myself.

Honestly, why should we care if movies back then showed people drinking, smoking, or doing anything else for that matter that's not acceptable today ?  (Ok, I won't touch racism or sexism, that's a whole different dog biscuit. But even then I can see that stuff in old films and just recognize that these movies are decades old, people were unenlightened then. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the movie.)

Well said! 

While I think smoking is disgusting in real life, for whatever reason, I like it in old movies. It’s just part of the time and as much as I hate to admit it, they make smoking look cool! At 34, I won’t be swayed to take up smoking “to look cool,” but I can’t help but think that it looks cool. I like that the characters offer cigarettes to others like one might do with appetizers. Even Bette Davis and Paul Henreid’s cigsrette scene in “Now, Voyager” looks romantic even though in real life, I’d be like “blech! No!” I also like that the characters just smoke nonchalantly. Not like in real life when many of the smokers I know have to make a big deal about how they need to smoke. I just think, “ugh just do it, away from me, and shut up about it already!” 

I’m always fascinated by how characters seemingly put away highballs of straight booze so easily. I’m not a fan of drinking straight booze. I too like how the characters help themselves to someone else’s alcohol. The nightclubs always look so elegant and what I’d give to sit in one of those swanky nightclubs sipping a champagne cocktail. Sometimes the drinking looks sexy. Can’t help it. Sometimes I’ll make the same type of drink the characters are drinking if I happen to have the ingredients on hand. 

I don’t mind alcohol and smoking in films. I don’t need my media censored for me. I am a self sufficient person who can make her own decisions. 

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14 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

Hmm, don't agree with that  - " it seems foolish /silly to have Film Noir on twice".  Actually, I love it that they give you two chances to watch these films; and sometimes they're pretty rare, so more than one airing is a good thing. I don't always have the chance to watch Noir Alley on Saturday night. I agree, it's the best time for it, Sunday morning does not seem very noir-ish. Still, as I said, it's nice to have two opportunities to see whatever Eddie's showing that week.

Also, I do not record movies ( for boring reasons I won't go into here), so "real time" is the only time I can watch this stuff. Watching something on tv as it's actually being aired, as opposed to recording it, seems to be becoming more and more uncommon these days. I hope I'll always be able to do it.

By the way, what did you mean, "Way too much smoke on the Film Noir site."  ???

I sometimes watch Noir Alley live too, but only at 9pm Saturdays. I usually always DVR it too, in case I fall asleep or need to rewind because my bird distracted me, or even if I just want to see it again. I like that TCM airs it twice. If I forget to record Saturday’s offering, then I have another chance. 

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I don't have a problem with the smoking and drinking in these old movies. Back in the 40s and 50s a lot of people lived that way. One of the things I like most about that era is how people dressed. Suits and dresses were the norm. Today it's tee shirts, cargo shorts and flip flops. 

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9 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

I sometimes watch Noir Alley live too, but only at 9pm Saturdays. I usually always DVR it too, in case I fall asleep or need to rewind because my bird distracted me, or even if I just want to see it again. I like that TCM airs it twice. If I forget to record Saturday’s offering, then I have another chance. 

One of these days I'll have to get my act together and figure out how to DVR; my husband and I don't actually have that set up yet  ( what an embarrassing admittance, especially on a site for classic movie fans ! ). As I said, the reasons for this are too lame to go into.

But it's great that these days ( well, for many many days now), people have had the option to record something  on television they want to see but can't view in "real time".  I used to record lots of TCM movies - on videotape ! !  And in fact I still have loads of old VCR tapes with rare old movies I recorded from TCM. A whole library, almost. And on the one hand, I'm happy to have access to these unusual old films in any format  ( 'cause guess what, I still have a functioning VCR player !  )  on the other hand, I don't actually watch them very often, and they are a bit of a clutter problem  (like, several huge stacks of old videotapes with titles like "Tatooed Stranger" sitting on a shelf in my already cluttered closet...)

Hey, that bird, speedy !  I think it's both sweet and hilarious that he wants to distract your attention from whatever movie you're watching to him !

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17 hours ago, Hepburn Fan said:

My point had nothing to do with the movies. They are what they are. I grew up lighting cigarettes for ladies. I use to smoke. I simply don't favor the Noir Alley website being filled with smoke. It is part of the Noir theme I suppose. Not sure what makes Noir, Noir.

In Auntie Mame, it was Gin. I enjoy my hooch, by coincidence, Canadian Whisky.

Well, as the quote on the Noir Alley site says,

"If you want fresh air, don't look for it in this town."   

If we were talking about a site dedicated to current movies  ( or other "filmed entertainment" of any kind), I suppose I could see your point. In today's culture, it's not ok in any way to celebrate or even show cigarette smoking, in any context.  (This hard core morally rigid POV is something I don't actually agree with, but at least I understand and accept it.) But since, as many posters here have noted, smoking was a part of that shadowy noir world as much as drinking, rain, and dark alleys were ( hence the title of the series?) , I think it's entirely appropriate to fill the Noir Alley site with floating smoke...it lights up my day !   (sorry, couldn't resist.)

Edit: By the way, I don't smoke and never did.  I once, when I was young and silly, actually kind of tried to start smoking, ( hey this was a long time ago), because, as speedy says, I thought it looked cool. But I just didn't like it; I'd buy a pack of cigs and they'd just go stale, because I couldn't be bothered to smoke them ! The only time I'd smoke was at parties or maybe on a date with a guy who smoked, and even then, I just fiddled around holding the cigarette in my hand, never really inhaled much.

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17 hours ago, CaveGirl said:

If C meant a Condemned film by the Vatican in their Index, I would deem it a film definitely worth watching, Miss Wonderly!

I watched "Desperate" too, and can see why Hibi found it below B-grade. A lot of these films are being touted since some people probably are making money on them being recapitulated in boxed sets and sold again in the dvd market. It's a lot like when "Antique Roadshow" had the guy expert on who evaluated guns and rifles and was overestimating the worth of many of them, since he was friends with some people who were selling the items in a new market, and they were making money based on his overinflated values. I like Steve Brodie a lot, but "Desperate" was pretty typical B-fare for the time.

Maybe Steve Brodie was desperate to get a good role.  (sorry.)

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By the way, I can't resist...One thing I loved about Seinfeld was the allusions the show made now and then to film noir. Clearly the writers were noir fans, who were familiar with the tropes of the genre. There are several hilarious scenes where the characters behave very noirishly. One episode in particular involved Elaine and Jerry plotting to cover up the fact that a couch has been stolen from the lobby of Mr.Pitt's apartment  (I think...)

Elaine is worried that she and Jerry will get the blame. She paces back and forth, trying to invent a plausible story for the couch's disappearance. Just like in an old noir movie, she tells Jerry, "shut up, shut up !" She talks fast, and she just happens to be wearing an outfit with big shoulder pads, like something out of the '40s.  The way I remembered it, I thought she asked for a cigarette. But it's a drink, which is almost as good.

Tried to find the clip on youtube, but the best I could come up with was this "Seinfeld Noir" cartoon. Still, it's pretty funny.

My point is, it's a direct reference to film noir, and Elaine demands a drink at the end of the scene.

 

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46 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Maybe Steve Brodie was desperate to get a good role.  (sorry.)

Good one, Miss W! I always have liked Brodie since he just seems to play an Everyman so well in films.

As a teen film fan, I used to always get Scott Brady and Steve Brodie mixed up, till my grandma said "Scott is Lawrence Tierney's brother. Don't you know who Lawrence Tierney is?" Then she started telling me stories about the brawling Tierney and how she was amazed he was still alive after so many fights, and that he was always in the gossip columns back in the day. Since then I don't get Steve and Scott mixed up anymore.

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28 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

By the way, I can't resist...One thing I loved about Seinfeld was the allusions the show made now and then to film noir. Clearly the writers were noir fans, who were familiar with the tropes of the genre. There are several hilarious scenes where the characters behave very noirishly. One episode in particular involved Elaine and Jerry plotting to cover up the fact that a couch has been stolen from the lobby of Mr.Pitt's apartment  (I think...)

Elaine is worried that she and Jerry will get the blame. She paces back and forth, trying to invent a plausible story for the couch's disappearance. Just like in an old noir movie, she tells Jerry, "shut up, shut up !" She talks fast, and she just happens to be wearing an outfit with big shoulder pads, like something out of the '40s.  The way I remembered it, I thought she asked for a cigarette. But it's a drink, which is almost as good.

Tried to find the clip on youtube, but the best I could come up with was this "Seinfeld Noir" cartoon. Still, it's pretty funny.

My point is, it's a direct reference to film noir, and Elaine demands a drink at the end of the scene.

 

Brilliant connection to noir, Miss Wonderly and the fact they had Lawrence Tierney playing Elaine's dad would seem to prove the veracity of your implication of their noirish tendencies.

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1 hour ago, misswonderly3 said:

One of these days I'll have to get my act together and figure out how to DVR; my husband and I don't actually have that set up yet  ( what an embarrassing admittance, especially on a site for classic movie fans ! ). As I said, the reasons for this are too lame to go into.

But it's great that these days ( well, for many many days now), people have had the option to record something  on television they want to see but can't view in "real time".  I used to record lots of TCM movies - on videotape ! !  And in fact I still have loads of old VCR tapes with rare old movies I recorded from TCM. A whole library, almost. And on the one hand, I'm happy to have access to these unusual old films in any format  ( 'cause guess what, I still have a functioning VCR player !  )  on the other hand, I don't actually watch them very often, and they are a bit of a clutter problem  (like, several huge stacks of old videotapes with titles like "Tatooed Stranger" sitting on a shelf in my already cluttered closet...)

Hey, that bird, speedy !  I think it's both sweet and hilarious that he wants to distract your attention from whatever movie you're watching to him !

Join the club, Miss Wonderly, I have many boxes of old videotapes of movies from TCM in my hall closet, and they are all numbered to conform to a list of movies taped I have listed in a binder! I also have a still functioning VCR.

I know...I need to go on the show, "Hoarders".

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18 hours ago, Hepburn Fan said:

All I really know about Noir, is Guy Noir, from A Prairie Home Companion. Reminds me of Jerry Orbach as Harry McGraw, in Murder, She Wrote.

Guy Noir, eh?

The only character I know of that is truly noir, is No-ah Cross*, as played by John Huston in "Chinatown".

* That should be pronounced as No-Wah Cross, to be accurately intoned.

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1 hour ago, CaveGirl said:

Good one, Miss W! I always have liked Brodie since he just seems to play an Everyman so well in films.

As a teen film fan, I used to always get Scott Brady and Steve Brodie mixed up, till my grandma said "Scott is Lawrence Tierney's brother. Don't you know who Lawrence Tierney is?" Then she started telling me stories about the brawling Tierney and how she was amazed he was still alive after so many fights, and that he was always in the gossip columns back in the day. Since then I don't get Steve and Scott mixed up anymore.

And here I'd fondly believed that Scott was one of the boys in The Brady Bunch.

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2 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

One of these days I'll have to get my act together and figure out how to DVR; my husband and I don't actually have that set up yet  ( what an embarrassing admittance, especially on a site for classic movie fans ! ). As I said, the reasons for this are too lame to go into.

It may spoil you. I've got so used to its wonderfulness that I won't have cable without it. Wouldn't even consider it. The idea that anyone has to stay up for a movie or to make free time for some other movie is quaint. Now getting up at 2am for a movie is not at all quaint. It is sheer horror.

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16 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

And here I'd fondly believed that Scott was one of the boys in The Brady Bunch.

I think you are thinking of Tom Brady, who as a child actor portrayed Oliver's friend, Mikey in the show.

It was only mentioned once that he was the illegitimate son of Mike Brady, and had been adopted out from the nearby Redondo Beach Orphan Asylum, Miss Wonderly.

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22 minutes ago, laffite said:

It may spoil you. I've got so used to its wonderfulness that I won't have cable without it. Wouldn't even consider it. The idea that anyone has to stay up for a movie or to make free time for some other movie is quaint. Now getting up at 2am for a movie is not at all quaint. It is sheer horror.

Tell me about it; I got up way after midnight, the other evening to watch the over three-hour long Fassbinder movie!

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20 hours ago, Hibi said:

You cant argue with computer censor programs.......

Our local paper used to have a comment feature for its online version. It would not let you type in Dick Cheney.  At one time this site would not either, so we will see what happens hear.  Who ever heard of Richard Cheney?

20 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Read about the debate Jack Warner had with John Huston about smoking while making the film The Maltese Falcon after Jack saw 'rushes'.     The Peter Lorre comments are funny (but not PC).

Smoking,  like neon lights,  shadowed alleys,  etc.. are part of the noir ambiance.   

E.g. Eddie's suit is 'dated' but matches what was hip at the time.

Not to mention his ties.  I have one like ones he wears that my father wore when he was a young sport in the 30's.

3 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

One of these days I'll have to get my act together and figure out how to DVR; my husband and I don't actually have that set up yet  ( what an embarrassing admittance, especially on a site for classic movie fans ! ). As I said, the reasons for this are too lame to go into.

But it's great that these days ( well, for many many days now), people have had the option to record something  on television they want to see but can't view in "real time".  I used to record lots of TCM movies - on videotape ! !  And in fact I still have loads of old VCR tapes with rare old movies I recorded from TCM. A whole library, almost. And on the one hand, I'm happy to have access to these unusual old films in any format  ( 'cause guess what, I still have a functioning VCR player !  )  on the other hand, I don't actually watch them very often, and they are a bit of a clutter problem  (like, several huge stacks of old videotapes with titles like "Tatooed Stranger" sitting on a shelf in my already cluttered closet...)

Hey, that bird, speedy !  I think it's both sweet and hilarious that he wants to distract your attention from whatever movie you're watching to him !

All of my VCR tapes eventually deteriorated.  Also, even a good video tape pales in comparison to a DVD.  I have a DVD/VCR recorder and the tapes I used for recording have deteriorated.

Since I can record DVD-RW discs I do not DVR.  If gets to point where I can't or DVD recorder dies, guess I'll have to learn to DVR-and pay Spectrum for the privilege.

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