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Trump and North Korea


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Just now, NipkowDisc said:

well, whatta we supposed to do? just hope that NK can't load anything on to their NYC and DC reaching ICBMs?

 

just live with a nuclear armed NK? that is suicidal defeatism.

If NK can live with a nuclear armed US we can live with a nuclear armed NK. NK was willing to sign an anti-nuclear pact but the US didn't want to sign.

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NK have been chronic liars since the 1950s and when you put them on par with us you demean us and legitimize them.

 

we should accept them because they accept us??? that's the kinda HS that scares the apolitical into becoming conservatives.

you're talking about a tyranny that lets it's own get eaten on from inside by foot long tapeworms.

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Just now, Gershwin fan said:

I agree with all that except taking the troops out of SK. While I think an aggressive policy from the US and SK is a bad idea, NK would absolutely invade and destroy SK without American protection.

Before the US leaves we would supply SK with a few nukes.   NOW,  I know that sounds like of nuts but something similar has worked (with regards to preventing war),  between India and Pakistan.   

Having US troops in SK is viewed as an aggressive policy by both NK and China.    IF US troops remain NK can use this to draw the US into war and then send a nuke towards the US mainland. 

But a sound plan would be to leave them there until China, NK, SK and the USA agree on a treaty where NK agrees to NOT invade SK and  SK and the USA agree to NOT invade \ attack NK as well as dropping all plans related to unification (which is what China fears most).    

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6 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

NK have been chronic liars since the 1950s and when you put them on par with us you demean us and legitimize them.

 

we should accept them because they accept us??? that's the kinda HS that scares the apolitical into becoming conservatives.

you're talking about a tyranny that lets it's own get eaten on from inside by foot long tapeworms.

Conservatives are much more likely to be isolationist than Liberals.    Trump is much more of an isolationist (that is the basis for America First BTW).    What you want is the Bush\Clinton doctrine.     Getting involved in conflicts that don't directly threaten the USA.  

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13 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

NK have been chronic liars since the 1950s and when you put them on par with us you demean us and legitimize them.

 

we should accept them because they accept us??? that's the kinda HS that scares the apolitical into becoming conservatives.

you're talking about a tyranny that lets it's own get eaten on from inside by foot long tapeworms.

NK may lie but so has the RoK. The RoK used to be a dictatorship and implemented the Gwangju uprising massacre against peaceful democratic people. The RoK is absolutely no better than Nk and resolutions have to be sought peacefully. I think the US is a good nation which is why I think we shouldn't be occupying other nations or giving them ultimatums on nukes. It's unlikely NK will ever give up their nukes because they legitimately see the US as an occupying nation similar to Imperial Japan. An aggressive policy towards them will just lead to more death and carnage on the peninsula. 

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15 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Before the US leaves we would supply SK with a few nukes.   NOW,  I know that sounds like of nuts but something similar has worked (with regards to preventing war),  between India and Pakistan.   

Having US troops in SK is viewed as an aggressive policy by both NK and China.    IF US troops remain NK can use this to draw the US into war and then send a nuke towards the US mainland. 

But a sound plan would be to leave them there until China, NK, SK and the USA agree on a treaty where NK agrees to NOT invade SK and  SK and the USA agree to NOT invade \ attack NK as well as dropping all plans related to unification (which is what China fears most).    

The thing is that one of the main ideas behind Juche is the uniting of all the Korean peninsula under the Kims and I think it is very unlikely NK would agree to that solution. 

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19 minutes ago, Gershwin fan said:

NK may lie but so has the RoK. The RoK used to be a dictatorship and implemented the Gwangju uprising massacre against peaceful democratic people. The RoK is absolutely no better than Nk and resolutions have to be sought peacefully. I think the US is a good nation which is why I think we shouldn't be occupying other nations or giving them ultimatums on nukes. It's unlikely NK will ever give up their nukes because they legitimately see the US as an occupying nation similar to Imperial Japan. An aggressive policy towards them will just lead to more death and carnage on the peninsula. 

I see you understand how history still defines relationships.  My mom is Japaneses and came over with my American dad in the 50s (he was stationed in Japan).     I often tease her (and she doesn't like it), that at the root of the conflict with NK is what Japan did to the Korean people back in the 30s and 40s.     

This is why I call for the US to be very clear that we do NOT support unification.   These are now two separate counties and that is how it should remain.        

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6 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I see you understand how history still defines relationship.  My is Japaneses and came over with my American dad in the 50s (he was stationed in Japan).     I often tease her (and she doesn't like it), that at the root of the conflict with NK is what Japan did to the Korean people back in the 30s and 40s.     

This is why I call for the US to be very clear that we do NOT support unification.   These are now two separate counties and that is how it should remain.        

I am actually hopeful to see the North and South get over differences and for the Koreans to unite. I just realize that it's extremely unlikely for anything to be solved peacefully at this point in time with both nations so aggressive to each other. Neither nation should be forced to capitulate though. They need to seek their own national paths at this point.

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52 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

I got one...scare the **** outta the SKs. either they do what we tellem or we remove all our troops and they can fend against short, fat and ugly all be their lonesomes.:D

Scare the South Koreans? Why, what did they do? When did they not do "what we tellem"?

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1 hour ago, NipkowDisc said:

before it was just the west coast now they can hit NYC and DC and all egg sucking liberal appeasers can do is suggest more wasting of time with more useless diplomacy...

 

And they won't stop until they have the capability of a direct hit on Nipkowdisc's apartment.

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All Donny has done for the last eleven months is run his mouth.

Just accept the fact that NK will have nukes able to reach the U.S.

and the fact that KJU is weird and has a strange hair cut but is not

suicidal. 

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NK with nukes is an existential threat to SK and ourselves. how can we let this stand?

NK must be neutralized. allowing for a nuclear NK is like handing hitler equipment to conduct heavy water experiments.

could we really expect the NK regime to behave in a civilized manner with nukes like india or pakistan?

reality says no but liberal pie in the sky imbecilics say yes.

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15 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

NK with nukes is an existential threat to SK and ourselves. how can we let this stand?

NK must be neutralized. allowing for a nuclear NK is like handing hitler equipment to conduct heavy water experiments.

could we really expect the NK regime to behave in a civilized manner with nukes like india or pakistan?

reality says no but liberal pie in the sky imbecilics say yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies) is an Internet adage that asserts that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler [grows]"; that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds. Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990, Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions. It is now applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric where reductio ad Hitlerum occurs.

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37 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

NK with nukes is an existential threat to SK and ourselves. how can we let this stand?

NK must be neutralized. allowing for a nuclear NK is like handing hitler equipment to conduct heavy water experiments.

could we really expect the NK regime to behave in a civilized manner with nukes like india or pakistan?

reality says no but liberal pie in the sky imbecilics say yes.

Nipkow, NK only wants nukes because the US has them. During the Cold War they didn't need nukes because they had the Soviet Union protecting them. Nowadays they have to have their own protection. If the US and NK ever manage to deescalate hostilities both could have nukes. NK has talked about denuclearizing before but only if the US also did and the US wanted nothing to do with it.

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13 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

well, what does he want nuclear ICBMs for? prestege?

Come on you really can't be that clueless NIP.   All countries the USA dislikes need nukes to protect themselves from US aggression.    The USA has a history of regime change.   Of sticking our necks into other countries business telling them how to live and leaders how to treat their own people.    

This history is well documented and you know it (unless you're really clueless).    

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14 hours ago, Gershwin fan said:

Nipkow, NK only wants nukes because the US has them. During the Cold War they didn't need nukes because they had the Soviet Union protecting them. Nowadays they have to have their own protection. If the US and NK ever manage to deescalate hostilities both could have nukes. NK has talked about denuclearizing before but only if the US also did and the US wanted nothing to do with it.

I think part of it is Kim's mental state and fear of regime change.  NK could depend on the Chinese for nuclear protection, but that does not fit into Kim's thinking.  He also probably does not trust them either.

The basic problem is that no one trusts the US to not invade or take other actions to cause regime change.  We have done it too many times.  We constantly interfere in the internal matters of foreign countries.  Dictatorships are more fearful than other countries.

More importantly the US has the Eighth US Army headquartered in South Korea.  This makes it very easy to add divisions, brigades and other large forces quickly.  There are also all the other Navy, Air Force, Marine and various special operations forces there.  Not to mention the US forces in Guam, Japan and the Philippines and the entire US Pacific Command.

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37 minutes ago, TheCid said:

I think part of it is Kim's mental state and fear of regime change.  NK could depend on the Chinese for nuclear protection, but that does not fit into Kim's thinking.  He also probably does not trust them either.

The basic problem is that no one trusts the US to not invade or take other actions to cause regime change.  We have done it too many times.  We constantly interfere in the internal matters of foreign countries.  Dictatorships are more fearful than other countries.

More importantly the US has the Eighth US Army headquartered in South Korea.  This makes it very easy to add divisions, brigades and other large forces quickly.  There are also all the other Navy, Air Force, Marine and various special operations forces there.  Not to mention the US forces in Guam, Japan and the Philippines and the entire US Pacific Command.

That's very true. NK also tries to practice Juche or "self reliance" so that they don't have to depend on other nations for their well being or safety (this includes using their own nukes and making their own guns). They try to show themselves as the true self reliant Korea while they show the South as a US and Japan puppet state. 

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1 minute ago, mr6666 said:

NPRVerified account @NPR 3h3 hours ago

 
 

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said tonight the U.S. would be willing to enter negotiations with North Korea without requiring that it agree beforehand to give up its nuclear weapons program.

 

-FINALLY! :huh:

Yes,   Finally it appears the Trump admin understands that the mission has failed and is now moving on to a policy stance that might succeed.    But I do wonder what South Korean and Japanese leaders think about this.   Yea, they don't want war,  but at the same time they want the USA to protect them.   

 

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Yes,   Finally it appears the Trump admin understands that the mission has failed and is now moving on to a policy stance that might succeed.    But I do wonder what South Korean and Japanese leaders think about this.   Yea, they don't want war,  but at the same time they want the USA to protect them.   

 

Even Trump isn't dumb enough to pull the US troops out of those places.

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12 hours ago, Gershwin fan said:

Even Trump isn't dumb enough to pull the US troops out of those places.

Not right away but a long term solution would be removing US troops with China providing a guarantee that they would defend S.K.  and Japan against an N.K. attack.   This is just one of the long term ideas being kicked around.    

 

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