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As I Watch A HARD DAY'S NIGHT, ...


Palmerin

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... I'm reminded of a comment in a previous showing, which said that this movie was made because its producers were sure that the Beatles were a flash in the pan who would soon be forgotten, so they made AHDN as a cynical ploy to extract extra money from their fans.

Is this true? I, for one, cannot believe such a preposterous DISPARATE=PILE OF NONSENSE.

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I dunno, Palmerin, but I'm sure glad they made it, whatever their (possibly erroneous) reasons for doing so.

Hard Day's Night is just a delight from start to finish; fun, joyful, light-hearted -oh yeah, and with absolutely fab music all the way through.

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... I'm reminded of a comment in a previous showing, which said that this movie was made because its producers were sure that the Beatles were a flash in the pan who would soon be forgotten, so they made AHDN as a cynical ploy to extract extra money from their fans.

Is this true? I, for one, cannot believe such a preposterous DISPARATE=PILE OF NONSENSE.

 

Ohh, yeah--In 1963, while Elvis-mania was still a teen punchline, nobody could understand why London teens were throwing screaming fits over four gawky teens with crazy haircuts who kept singing "yeah", so as far as anyone over 30 was concerned, they were the Justin Biebers and Conrad Birdies of their day.

It wasn't made "cynically", but the producers did worry that the fad clock might be ticking.

 

I showed the disk to my mom once a few years ago, when the Miramax disk came out, and she was still a product of the over-30 60's that couldn't understand what those Crazy Kids on Ed Sullivan saw in them.  And then, once the group started harmonizing on "If I Fell" in the TV studio and "I Should Have Known Better" in the train car, she started to appreciate that the group did have a particular harmony-and-guitars sound during their pre-Sgt. Pepper B/W days.  Better late than never.

(Although she'd already started to re-appreciate the Monkees' TV episodes when MTV was reviving them in the 80's, and thought that group was more likable and had better songs, so it was easy to try and show her how Richard Lester had done it first.)

 

Just off the subject, I remember cringing when Netflix first aired the trailer to "Beat Bugs", and within a few episodes, my cringing turned to bingeing.   ^_^

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A lot of the credit for how the film turned out goes to the British screenwriter Alun Owen, who was from Liverpool. He spent time with The Beatles in order to get a feel for them.

 

"Alun picked up lots of little things about us," Sir Paul McCartney once said. "Little jokes, the sarcasm, the humor, John’s wit, Ringo’s laconic manner, each of our different ways. The film manages to capture our characters quite well, because Alun was careful to try only to put words into our mouths that he might have heard us speak."
 
Owen received a 1964 Academy Award nomination for Best Original Screenplay for the movie.

 

Alun%2BOwen.jpg

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... I'm reminded of a comment in a previous showing, which said that this movie was made because its producers were sure that the Beatles were a flash in the pan who would soon be forgotten, so they made AHDN as a cynical ploy to extract extra money from their fans.

Is this true? I, for one, cannot believe such a preposterous DISPARATE=PILE OF NONSENSE.

Yes I read something similar. Remember, the Beatles ended up breaking the mold and establishing a new template for pop groups, throughout their career. Nobody thought they could last more than 2-3 years on top, if that. So yes, the powers that be thought they could squeeze out a bit more out of the mop tops and their fans with a movie rushed to exploit their current popularity.

 

Of course, AHDN was another example of their talent, and appealed to many beyond their hard-core fans. Had the lads been less talented songwriters, the odds are they would have had a more typical career trajectory, similar to The Dave Clark Five or Gerry and the Pacemakers, who after their run of hits, as well as their own pop film for fans while they were hot (HAVING A WILD WEEKEND/CATCH US IF YOU CAN and FERRY ACROSS THE MERSEY, respectively), had a downward career spiral.

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Yes I read something similar. Remember, the Beatles ended up breaking the mold and establishing a new template for pop groups, throughout their career. Nobody thought they could last more than 2-3 years on top, if that. So yes, the powers that be thought they could squeeze out a bit more out of the mop tops and their fans with a movie rushed to exploit their current popularity.

Of course, AHDN was another example of their talent, and appealed to many beyond their hard-core fans. Had the lads been less talented songwriters, the odds are they would have had a more typical career trajectory, similar to The Dave Clark Five or Gerry and the Pacemakers, who after their run of hits, as well as their own pop film for fans while they were hot (HAVING A WILD WEEKEND/CATCH US IF YOU CAN and FERRY ACROSS THE MERSEY, respectively), had a downward career spiral.

While the Dave Clark Five had a brief era of popularity in the US, they remain popular in the U.K. And Clark became a record producer and composer. I was on a cruise with a lot of people from the U.K. In 2014 and I was surprised how popular Cliff Richard was over there. I'm a baby boomer and while I know he had a couple of hits here I don't remember him being as well known here. And there's probably a lot of artists here that never really hit that big there.

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My first concert was The Beatles at The Coliseum in Memphis. A 13th birthday gift from my Grandfather. 13th birthday, 13th row center. I was in heaven.

 

I loved watching AHDN last night.

 

Wow what a great experience!    

 

My first concert was the Grateful Dead.  My older brother and his friends took me (I was 15).    They played at Royce Hall which is at the California university U.C.L.A.     We had front row seats in the 'second' section.   Well there was this really tall  guy standing in-between the sections that was talking to security and blocking my view.    My brother tells me to go tell the guy to move.      I do this and the guy couldn't of been nicer.   Well I get back to my seat and everyone is laughing.   The guy was basketball player Bill Walton and they all knew this.   Walton was playing for UCLA under John Wooden. 

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Has there ever been a lovelier pop ballad than "And I Love Her"?

 

Depends on who you ask.

 

 

MY first concert was JIMI HENDRIX in '68.  REAL full bill, with SOFT MACHINE, The Thyme and MC5 on the ticket! 

 

Never did get to see The Beatles in concert.  The best I could do was that when they came to Detroit in Oct. '64, was to go to a local theater and see A HARD DAY'S NIGHT that same weekend.

 

As for The Beatles being a "flash in the pan"------sure.   Remember----ROCK AND ROLL was only supposed to be a "fad", right?  :D

 

("Oh, six months from now, and you kids will forget all ABOUT all this rock and roll nonsense!")  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

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Depends on who you ask.

 

 

MY first concert was JIMI HENDRIX in '68.  REAL full bill, with SOFT MACHINE, The Thyme and MC5 on the ticket! 

 

Never did get to see The Beatles in concert.  The best I could do was that when they came to Detroit in Oct. '64, was to go to a local theater and see A HARD DAY'S NIGHT that same weekend.

 

As for The Beatles being a "flash in the pan"------sure.   Remember----ROCK AND ROLL was only supposed to be a "fad", right?  :D

 

("Oh, six months from now, and you kids will forget all ABOUT all this rock and roll nonsense!")  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

If Britain hadn't eliminated the mandatory two years of military service in 1960, the Beatles never would have had the opportunity to become big.

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... Remember, the Beatles ended up breaking the mold and establishing a new template for pop groups, throughout their career. Nobody thought they could last more than 2-3 years on top, if that. ...

 

Even the Beatles themselves had doubts about how long their career as pop stars would last.  If I remember correctly, when asked about the future, John and Paul speculated that they'd become full-time songwriters for other singers once their own stardom ended, and Ringo talked about opening his own business (a hair salon, I think).  I don't recall what George said he'd do.  (He may have wanted to be a race car driver, which was a longtime enthusiasm of his.)

 

There really was no precedent for the Beatles' collective stardom, now having lasted over half a century.  Sure, folks like Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, and Elvis (posthumously) hit the 50-year mark as stars, but they didn't write their own material and, obviously, were solo acts.  The closest thing to the Beatles' group phenomenon was probably the "name" big bands, like the Benny Goodman, Duke Ellington, and Glenn Miller orchestras, who are still moderately well known today.  But again, they wrote little of their own material and were also ever-changing organizations behind their stars (although the Duke kept more of his same musicians through the years than most other big bands).  And I would argue that unlike the Beatles, the big bands didn't have a multi-generational fan base to the same extent and certainly didn't continue to sell massive numbers of recordings like the Beatles have.

 

The Beatles seem to have been the first rock band to sustain lasting stardom.  Of course, a number of other bands have since done the same thing in their wake -- the Stones (way outlasting the Beatles as an active group) and the Grateful Dead come to mind as bands that continue to have huge followings decades after their founding.

 

To me, AHDN is the best rock movie ever made.  Although I'd been a Beatles fan since about 1967, I was first acquainted with the movie in the early 70s, when the "educational" TV station where we lived showed it over and over, until I knew the dialogue by heart (which I still do).  To a degree not achieved by other movies built around rock musicians, AHDN is genuinely funny, has an amusing if slight story, features strong supporting cast members, and has consistently great musical performances.  Even the Beatles' own HELP! doesn't reach the heights of AHDN, in my opinion.

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To me, AHDN is the best rock movie ever made.  Although I'd been a Beatles fan since about 1967, I was first acquainted with the movie in the early 70s, when the "educational" TV station where we lived showed it over and over, until I knew the dialogue by heart (which I still do).  To a degree not achieved by other movies built around rock musicians, AHDN is genuinely funny, has an amusing if slight story, features strong supporting cast members, and has consistently great musical performances.  Even the Beatles own HELP! doesn't reach the heights of AHDN, in my opinion.

 

Help! was amusing in a Richard Lester Goons-era pre-Python way, but it falls apart at the end from the lads' own now slightly fumigated taste for improvisation and doesn't capture the PURE essence of 60's Beatlemania like Alun Owen's AHDN script could.

 

The teens were going wild over the group's clean-cut and rebellious spirit, and both come off so instinctively, it's the closest the movie can come to a straight time-capsule of what caused the British Invasion.

The train-station chase and the soccer-field romp are iconic, but when Lester puts us in the audience and shows us the frenzy of the closing "She Loves You", that's not just a great musical number of the 60's, that's history.   B)

(The fact that most of the extras were real, also helps, although the "...George!" girl probably wasn't.)

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BingFan is correct. The Beatles themselves were keenly aware, perhaps unusually so among their contemporaries, that there was probably a shelf life to their teen-pop stardom. There's a quote early on from John Lennon that I'm paraphrasing where he says something like, "You can get a big head and say we'll last 10 years, but the truth is, we'll probably be lucky to make it six months." The idea that their work would be not just listened to but analyzed and scrutinized 50 years later was beyond anyone's imagining at the time, I think. John and Paul were keen on the idea of establishing themselves as songwriters for other acts, their own generation's version of Leiber and Stoller (or Rodgers and Hart, if you want to get more ambitious), because that's where they figured their long-term place in the industry probably lay, once the girls stopped screaming for them. From early on in their stardom, they were giving away songs like "Love of the Loved" and "A World without Love" to other acts.

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Surely the longevity of their popularity is probably more of a surprise to THEM( who's LEFT of them anyway) and not to any of the fans.

 

Certainly, many think AHDN is MUCH better than "Help!", and I'm no different.  I think I recall reading or hearing somewhere they didn't think the second movie was all that much good too.  Just that they had more FUN making it than they did the first one.

 

And the fact that even all these years later their music is still being analyzed  is proof they WERE more than the average "pop" group.  Now, there's some who'll claim that The Stones were the greatest ROCK group.  But in retrospect, and in comparison, I'd have to say that The Beatles were the better MUSIC group.

 

 

Sepiatone

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Depends on who you ask.

 

 

MY first concert was JIMI HENDRIX in '68.  REAL full bill, with SOFT MACHINE, The Thyme and MC5 on the ticket! 

 

Never did get to see The Beatles in concert.  The best I could do was that when they came to Detroit in Oct. '64, was to go to a local theater and see A HARD DAY'S NIGHT that same weekend.

 

As for The Beatles being a "flash in the pan"------sure.   Remember----ROCK AND ROLL was only supposed to be a "fad", right?  :D

 

("Oh, six months from now, and you kids will forget all ABOUT all this rock and roll nonsense!")  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

R&R took its time to make an impact in PR; I still cringe at the memory of what passed for pop music in the 1950s and the early 1960s. The Beatles were eventually noticed in Borinquen, and their example and that of their contemporaries eventually revitalized pop in my country--something deserving of much gratitude.

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If Britain hadn't eliminated the mandatory two years of military service in 1960, the Beatles never would have had the opportunity to become big.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah--

 

That and meeting Little Richard in Hamburg--

 

That and firing Pete Best and hiring Ringo Starr away from Rory Storm and The Hurricanes--

 

and most of all getting Brian Epstein to front for them--

 

Etc. we could go on and on ---yeah yeah yeah!

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R&R took its time to make an impact in PR; I still cringe at the memory of what passed for pop music in the 1950s and the early 1960s. The Beatles were eventually noticed in Borinquen, and their example and that of their contemporaries eventually revitalized pop in my country--something deserving of much gratitude.

 

Some people these days always repeat the cliche that when the plane crash that killed BUDDY HOLLY, RITCHIE VALENS and THE BIG BOPPER  happened, that was the day "The music died".

 

Really, it didn't die.  But shortly after, when sleazebag ALAN FREED got in trouble with all that "payola" crap, it went into a sort of coma.

 

Those kickin' rockers gave way to "teen idols" like Rydell, Anka and Fabian.  The music got soft around the edges and all was just homogenized fluff  with only The Beach Boys giving us something worth listening to.  And I suppose others gave it a good try, like The Ventures, Freddy Cannon and such, plus some novelty tunes contributing,

 

But when you consider the #1 tune in America in 1963 was "Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport"  before The Beatles' "I Want To Hold Your Hand" hit #1 in '64, you've every right to cringe!  :D

 

 

Sepiatone

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Some people these days always repeat the cliche that when the plane crash that killed BUDDY HOLLY, RITCHIE VALENS and THE BIG BOPPER  happened, that was the day "The music died".

 

Really, it didn't die.  But shortly after, when sleazebag ALAN FREED got in trouble with all that "payola" crap, it went into a sort of coma.

 

Those kickin' rockers gave way to "teen idols" like Rydell, Anka and Fabian.  The music got soft around the edges and all was just homogenized fluff  with only The Beach Boys giving us something worth listening to.  And I suppose others gave it a good try, like The Ventures, Freddy Cannon and such, plus some novelty tunes contributing,

 

Also, once the mainstream adopted that the Young Kids were into the Rock 'n Roll thing, it started being commercialized by folks who couldn't figure the "rebellion" aspect of it, and mainstreamed it into the ground.  (Like the movies Elvis was doing by the early 60's.)

 

In Britain, with the rebellious 50's just starting to catch on at the end after postwar troubles, there was a cottage industry for "starmaker" promoters to try and create the next overnight teen idols, much like our manufactured boy-band industry being churned out of a Florida assembly line in the 90's.

John Lennon wanted his own "rocker" group--like the line in AHDN, you were a "mod" if you liked modern trends at the discotheques and a "rocker" if you listened to Carl Perkins and Buddy Holly and wore a black leather jacket just like James Dean--but turned down a promoter who wanted to turn him into "Johnny & the Moondogs".  Richard Starkey becoming "Ringo Starr" had just come off of another image-manufactured group.

Brian Epstein wanted to try his new hand at this "promoting" thing, took the rocker group from the Cavern and turned them into more mainstream-crossover...Mockers.   :)

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Some people these days always repeat the cliche that when the plane crash that killed BUDDY HOLLY, RITCHIE VALENS and THE BIG BOPPER  happened, that was the day "The music died".

 

Really, it didn't die.  But shortly after, when sleazebag ALAN FREED got in trouble with all that "payola" crap, it went into a sort of coma.

 

Those kickin' rockers gave way to "teen idols" like Rydell, Anka and Fabian.  The music got soft around the edges and all was just homogenized fluff  with only The Beach Boys giving us something worth listening to.  And I suppose others gave it a good try, like The Ventures, Freddy Cannon and such, plus some novelty tunes contributing,

 

But when you consider the #1 tune in America in 1963 was "Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport"  before The Beatles' "I Want To Hold Your Hand" hit #1 in '64, you've every right to cringe!  :D

 

 

Sepiatone

 

The first two 45s my dad got for me were Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport and Hello Muddah,  Hello Fadduh.    

 

My younger brother and I use to try my older brother nuts by playing Tie Me over and over again and running around the house singing the song.

 

As for the change in musical styles in the early 60s the Grammy for Record of the Year in 65 still went to The Girl from Ipanema,  with Sinatra winning the award in 66 and 67.   It wasn't until 1968 that The Beatles won for Sgt. Peppers. 

 

Song of the Year was even more dominated by traditional non-rock artist during the 60s,  with John and Paul winning for Michelle in 1967. 

 

(of course these two awards always favored 'pop' acts and still do).

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While the Dave Clark Five had a brief era of popularity in the US, they remain popular in the U.K. And Clark became a record producer and composer. I was on a cruise with a lot of people from the U.K. In 2014 and I was surprised how popular Cliff Richard was over there. I'm a baby boomer and while I know he had a couple of hits here I don't remember him being as well known here. And there's probably a lot of artists here that never really hit that big there.

We met Dave Clark about a year ago out at the Ann Arbor Comcast office.  Dave was picking up or returning something.  He was talking about George Martin and John Lennon and the movies that the Beatles were in. 

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We met Dave Clark about a year ago out at the Ann Arbor Comcast office.  Dave was picking up or returning something.  He was talking about George Martin and John Lennon and the movies that the Beatles were in. 

:o

 

That sounds as if it means Dave Clark is LIVING in Ann Arbor!

 

Now, I know there are different towns with the same names and located in different states and such, so are you referring to Ann Arbor, MI?  Or another one somewhere else?

 

 

Sepiatone

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:o

 

That sounds as if it means Dave Clark is LIVING in Ann Arbor!

 

Now, I know there are different towns with the same names and located in different states and such, so are you referring to Ann Arbor, MI?  Or another one somewhere else?

 

 

Apparently, Clark is considerably wealthy, thanks to shrewd investments and management of his music and publishing. He reportedly lived in America for a year to escape the UK's burdensome taxes. But he's back in London now. 

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My sister and I didn't know who Dave Clark was.  Barb was talking about music when Dave Clark introduced himself.  He knew a lot about music so I looked him up on the internet.  I think he was a Professor at the University of Michigan for one year.  I looked at Dave's pictures now and it was him.  I know a whole slew of his songs but didn't connect the two.

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