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Jim Crow Confederate Monuments Go Down in America


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what the hell does this hafta do with anything in 2017? 

 

Well, the attorney general (for now) IS Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, and he doesn't seem to realize it's 2017, either.

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will the nightly homicide rate in chicago magically drop when the last confederate monument is removed from public view???

 

of course not because there is no connection between confederate statues and the current mayhem in chicago...so why is the left pushing this?

 

You're the only one connecting that A to that B. They have nothing to do with each other, so why do you keep bringing them up together? That would be like me asking how is Trump's travel ban going to bring back coal jobs. 

 

You're making a BS false argument.

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Well, the attorney general (for now) IS Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, and he doesn't seem to realize it's 2017, either.

and sessions has said that as near as he can figure, it is believed of him that he is a racist because of his first and middle name.

 

I personally am indifferent to the removal of all this statuary. LawrenceA says as a southerner most of his fellow southerners could care less about these monuments.

 

I am willing to accept that.

 

And after these statues are all removed, the advocates of their removal will claim a great moral victory...for exactly what???

 

victory over racist confederate symbiology?

 

will that change one iota current social conditions in urban America?

 

the left will again claim that they have done someting which will amount to...nothing.

 

that is not even simply defeat...that is abdication of any possible usefulness in the face of defeat.

 

they have stopped trying. truly pathetic.

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and sessions has said that as near as he can figure, it is believed of him that he is a racist because of his first and middle name.

 

Well, he seems to be fighting the Civil War -- or trying to turn back the clock. It seems as if he's running out of time.  :ph34r:

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You're the only one connecting that A to that B. They have nothing to do with each, so why do you keep bringing them up together? That would be like me asking how is Trump's travel ban going to bring back coal jobs. 

 

You're making a BS false argument.

 

Hey, I'm not trying to be confrontational (and I really don't wish to agree with Nip),  but a connection could be that local liberal and\or African American politicians could be using 'get rid of these statues' to distract from the failure to improve conditions for the minorities in their communities.  

 

So while the two have nothing to do with each other from any practical basis,  there could be a political connection in that a politician up for re-election would push for removal of monuments to take focus on the crime rate or death-by-police rate in minority communities.   

 

Of course 'look over there,  not here' is used daily by conservative politicians.   

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is that all the left has left?

 

obsessing over old statues and monuments?

if MLK was alive today, I think he would be thoroughly disgusted.

 

he might say something like I will certainly not oppose the removal of these idols to an unjust cause but I must also ask how their exile will change a single man or woman's life in America today?

 

you see, martin luther king did something...he thought.

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I suppose this obsessing over confederate monuments has to do with sessions.

 

they are being removed. is sessions flipping out? not that I've heard.

 

He's got his own problems. He could become the latest administration head to be fired by The Political Apprentice.  :ph34r:

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Hey, I'm not trying to be confrontational (and I really don't wish to agree with Nip),  but a connection could be that local liberal and\or African American politicians could be using 'get rid of these statues' to distract from the failure to improve conditions for the minorities in their communities.  

 

So while the two have nothing to do with each other from any practical basis,  there could be a political connection in that a politician up for re-election would push for removal of monuments to take focus on the crime rate or death-by-police rate in minority communities.   

 

Of course 'look over there,  not here' is used daily by conservative politicians.   

 

Why can't African-American activists do both? It IS possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. The black community is not a single, monolithic entity capable of only looking at one issue at a time. Some people choose this issue, some choose that issue. And asking residents of New Orleans to spend their time dealing with Chicago's crime problems is absurd. Just as I don't think African-American leaders in Chicago spend a great deal of time fretting over Confederate statuary.

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Why can't African-American activists do both? It IS possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. The black community is not a single, monolithic entity capable of only looking at one issue at a time. Some people choose this issue, some choose that issue. And asking residents of New Orleans to spend their time dealing with Chicago's crime problems is absurd. Just as I don't think African-American leaders in Chicago spend a great deal of time fretting over Confederate statuary.

 

Did you read my post?   Yes,  activist can clearly do both but I was only referencing sitting local politicians (Mayor,  City Council members etc...) that have been in their position a number of years, and their 'numbers' are poor that may need a distraction to continue to get votes. 

 

So I can see Ron Emanuel,  the liberal Mayor of Chicago, getting on a soap box about removing monuments in the South,  as a way to distract from his failures as a Mayor to reduce police abuse of African-Americans as well as the number of murders in the south side of the city.

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Did you read my post?   Yes,  activist can clearly do both but I was only referencing sitting local politicians (Mayor,  City Council members etc...) that have been in their position a number of years, and their 'numbers' are poor that may need a distraction to continue to get votes. 

 

So I can see Ron Emanuel,  the liberal Mayor of Chicago, getting on a soap box about removing monuments in the South,  as a way to distract from his failures as a Mayor to reduce police abuse of African-Americans as well as the number of murders in the south side of the city.

 

It's Rahm Emanuel, but yeah, politicians will and can use distraction to hide shortcomings elsewhere.

 

But that has little to nothing to do with what was being discussed (black activists asking for Confederate statuary to be removed from public places having nothing to do with Chicago's murder rate), which is what I was speaking to.

 

I know I had your post quoted, but responding generally to a topic at hand while only tangentially connected to a quoted post is a trick I learned from you a while ago.  ;)

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My personal opinion on monuments, street names, memorials, statues, etc. for people.

 NONE!

No person or organization should ever be "memorialized" unless he/she paid for at least 50% of what is being meorialized.  And then with great caution.

When I was on city council, I managed to unofficially get this done.  The current mayor served on council with me and he has carried on that philosophy.

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My personal opinion on monuments, street names, memorials, statues, etc. for people.

 NONE!

No person or organization should ever be "memorialized" unless he/she paid for at least 50% of what is being meorialized.  And then with great caution.

When I was on city council, I managed to unofficially get this done.  The current mayor served on council with me and he has carried on that philosophy.

 

Why is that? To avert potential future controversy?

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Why is that? To avert potential future controversy?

No, just that we tend to be too quick to "honor" too many people.  Also, if you "honor" one person, you have failed to honor about a dozen others who feel they made similar contributions.

It also will avert future controversy such as this thread is absorbed with.

I think it was the Washington Post that asked readers what statues/memorials should come down.  Surprising number, including Grant, Sheridan and Sherman for their genocide against Native Americans.

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It's Rahm Emanuel, but yeah, politicians will and can use distraction to hide shortcomings elsewhere.

 

But that has little to nothing to do with what was being discussed (black activists asking for Confederate statuary to be removed from public places having nothing to do with Chicago's murder rate), which is what I was speaking to.

 

I know I had your post quoted, but responding generally to a topic at hand while only tangentially connected to a quoted post is a trick I learned from you a while ago.  ;)

 

No problem.   But I did see the Baltimore Mayor make comments about removing Confederate monuments and that city also have a high murder \ crime rate and police abuse.    Don't know if she is up for re-election but since the DA and her failed to get any convictions in that police van death case,  they both need all the distractions that can find. 

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No, just that we tend to be too quick to "honor" too many people.  Also, if you "honor" one person, you have failed to honor about a dozen others who feel they made similar contributions.

It also will avert future controversy such as this thread is absorbed with.

I think it was the Washington Post that asked readers what statues/memorials should come down.  Surprising number, including Grant, Sheridan and Sherman for their genocide against Native Americans.

 

Yes, there are numerous monuments to Andrew Jackson in this area, not the least of which is the city name of Jacksonville, and I've heard sporadic protests against them over the past 30 years or so, due to his genocidal tendencies.

 

My county went tribute crazy about a decade ago and renamed several streets and put up some statuary to honor townsfolk. It seems to have died down though, and I don't think there's been anything new added in the last few years.

 

We have Confederate stuff all over town, but since the biggest moneymaker of the year in this area is the annual Civil War battle re-enactment, that's not going anywhere.

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Yes, there are numerous monuments to Andrew Jackson in this area, not the least of which is the city name of Jacksonville, and I've heard sporadic protests against them over the past 30 years or so, due to his genocidal tendencies.

 

My county went tribute crazy about a decade ago and renamed several streets and put up some statuary to honor townsfolk. It seems to have died down though, and I don't think there's been anything new added in the last few years.

 

We have Confederate stuff all over town, but since the biggest moneymaker of the year in this area is the annual Civil War battle re-enactment, that's not going anywhere.

S.C. has gone crazy in "memoralizing" highways, overpasses and bridges.  Every one is named after somebody.  Drives the highway department and GPS people crazy.  Highways will have the route number designation, then the name such as Columbia Highway which 911, USPS, etc. recognize.  Then the legislature comes along and names it after some politician.  Signs go up calling it the Joe Blow Highway.  The highway department has to **** the signs and maintain a record of the names.  That information goes to companies that maintain GPS information, so a road may have different names depending on who programmed the GPS information.  There is one nearby that is either US Highway XX Bypass or (a city) Rd.  The GPS navigation in my car shows it as Joe Blow Highway.  Nobody remembers Joe Blow as he left office many years ago.  May even be deceased by now.  Also, the USPS does not recognize it as an address and you cannot input the correct address for a business because GPS says correct road name does not exist.

There are rooms in buildings, buildings, streets, etc. named for people and 95% of people never heard of the individual.  Most are either elected officials or athletic coaches.

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S.C. has gone crazy in "memoralizing" highways, overpasses and bridges.  Every one is named after somebody.  Drives the highway department and GPS people crazy.  Highways will have the route number designation, then the name such as Columbia Highway which 911, USPS, etc. recognize.  Then the legislature comes along and names it after some politician.  Signs go up calling it the Joe Blow Highway.  The highway department has to **** the signs and maintain a record of the names.  That information goes to companies that maintain GPS information, so a road may have different names depending on who programmed the GPS information.  There is one nearby that is either US Highway XX Bypass or (a city) Rd.  The GPS navigation in my car shows it as Joe Blow Highway.  Nobody remembers Joe Blow as he left office many years ago.  May even be deceased by now.  Also, the USPS does not recognize it as an address and you cannot input the correct address for a business because GPS says correct road name does not exist.

There are rooms in buildings, buildings, streets, etc. named for people and 95% of people never heard of the individual.  Most are either elected officials or athletic coaches.

 

Here is CA they are planning on naming streets after famous illegal immigrants.

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I get a kick out of the photo of Lee's statue being

removed. He has the defiant arms crossed pose of

Hey, I'm not moving. Then the crane comes along and

there he goes. Hey, wait a minute. Around here some

highways and bridges are named after police officers

or fire fighters who were killed in the line of duty.

 

While Chicago has the most murders, it ranks eighth

in murder rate, number of murders per 100,000 population.

Very cold comfort.

 

https://www.thetrace.org/2017/01/chicago-not-most-dangerous-city-america/

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I get a kick out of the photo of Lee's statue being

removed. He has the defiant arms crossed pose of

Hey, I'm not moving. Then the crane comes along and

there he goes. Hey, wait a minute. Around here some

highways and bridges are named after police officers

or fire fighters who were killed in the line of duty.

 

While Chicago has the most murders, it ranks eighth

in murder rate, number of murders per 100,000 population.

Very cold comfort.

 

https://www.thetrace.org/2017/01/chicago-not-most-dangerous-city-america/

 

It warms the heart to see Detroit near or at the top, depending on the chart. An American tradition.

 

I was surprised both NYC and Miami weren't on the lists.

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It warms the heart to see Detroit near or at the top, depending on the chart. An American tradition.

 

I was surprised both NYC and Miami weren't on the lists.

 

Hasn't New York City become Disneyfied?

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Hasn't New York City become Disneyfied?

 

Times Square has. But they must still have some murder-zones...right? That just wouldn't be NYC anymore if there wasn't some chance of being randomly murdered.

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