Jump to content
 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Is the truly a more magnificent film then THE GODFATHER?


Recommended Posts

The critics in PR--a very snobbish lot--made a very big deal about what a grand accomplishment it was for Coppola to depict these subhuman miscreants as ,,human beings''. After watching these ,,human beings'' butcher a poor innocent horse, I thought that I would be better off in the jungle, living with the jackals, the wolves and the hyennas.

 

Some would say many of the same things about Birth of a Nation (1915), and that's also considered a great movie.

 

I have never subscribed to the view that there is one film that is superior to all others. Be it Godfather, Casablanca or any other film. Film is art and art can be emotional. And emotions change with the weather. Whatever mood I'm in can determine what film I think is best. I'd rather discuss/debate a film's good and bad points. But, I don't rate them other than to say  "these are what I like...today".

 

Godfather is a fine film. Any film that portrays reality will have some unsettling moments because real life has those. There are films I will never watch because of scenes that would bother me. I think its really up to the individual.    

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, there's nothing to say to that, except that of course you're entitled to your opinion.

 

Oh, hell, actually I do have something to say to it.

While I dislike watching some of the violence depicted in The Godfather, I have to say, I've seen a lot worse. I don't watch violent movies for their violence; but often, the film has something further to offer. If that's the case, then I  accept the fact that there's going to be some difficult scenes - sometimes I avert my eyes. But if the film is good, I don't let the violence in it stop me from wanting to see it.

 

Also:  I'll say it again ( already said in a previous post), that in fact the characters in The Godfather - at least those whose point-of-view is presented to the audience - (the Corleone family and their loyal supporters and henchmen) - are presented somewhat sympathetically. I kind of like quite a few of them. Coppola ( and writer Mario Puzo) make a point of showing us these people up close, not just when they're carrying out their terrible actions, but also when they're attending a family wedding, making spaghetti, discussing family matters. They make jokes, they kiss their wives and children, they revere their elders. 

 

I'm not justifying what they do, I'm just saying, one of the strengths of this movie is the way it gets you inside the main characters' heads and elicits at least a little sympathy for them. At least, I kind of like and sympathize with them. A bit. Not when they're dumping someone in the Hudson river, of course.

 

Palmerin, if you're upset and revulsed by the Corleones and their people, I imagine you don't watch many crime films, or maybe any films with violence.

BUTCHER A POOR INNOCENT HORSE--not like the Lufthansa heist crooks in GOODFELLAS, who should have known better than to live a life that was likely to get them killed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You're oversimplifying. If The Godfather were merely a straightforward study of gangsters in the 1940s, with a black and white  "these characters are good, these others are bad" sensibility, it would not be the great film that it is.

 

Part of what makes it such an interesting and thought-provoking story is the way the audience is allowed to get inside these characters' heads, to see the way they justify and rationalize what they do - and also, to see that many of them actually do have a "good" - or at least, less evil - side to them. One of the many things The Godfather is, is an examination of how otherwise seemingly "normal" people can develop a code of ethics that justifies doing evil things - and to them, it's perfectly normal. 

 

There are few characters in film  who change as much as Michael Corleone does. Watching this young man go from a decent person who deplores what the rest of his family does, to someone who begins to understand and support what they do, to a ruthless gangster who feels justified standing godfather to his sister's baby while he knows that baby's father is being murdered upon his orders is a profoundly disturbing and thought-provoking cinematic experience.

 

Spot on.  Michael is the crux of it all.  War hero. Sweet guy.  "That' my family Kay, that's not me"  >>>  to a truly evil guy.  It happens gradually, but somehow, we knew it was always there.  You don't grow up around that kind of violence and not be affected by it.

 

And while the violence is truly disturbing, it is at least in service to the story.  And I will vote for the gruesomeness of it over far too many movies today that sanitize violence;  because you come away bothered by it, not jazzed up and thrilled by it....

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, here is the violence that really galls me: the abusive usage of the noble term FAMILY to describe subhuman sewage like the Gambinos and the Luccheses. As an aficionado of history and genealogy, I prefer to restrict FAMILY to refer to aristocratic dynasties like the Bourbons, and republican dynasties like the Roosevelts of New York state. People like that give honor to the term FAMILY, not opprobrium like the Corleones.

From CRACKED's parody of THE ODDFATHER:

Kay: Michael, are you in trouble with the law?

M: No, the law is in trouble with us.

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, here is the violence that really galls me: the abusive usage of the noble term FAMILY to describe subhuman sewage like the Gambinos and the Luccheses. As an aficionado of history and genealogy, I prefer to restrict FAMILY to refer to aristocratic dynasties like the Bourbons, and republican dynasties like the Roosevelts of New York state. People like that give honor to the term FAMILY, not opprobrium like the Corleones.

From CRACKED's parody of THE ODDFATHER:

Kay: Michael, are you in trouble with the law?

M: No, the law is in trouble with us.

 

I assume you also don't like the Jarrett family.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

I assume you also don't like the Jarrett family.   

People like the Kims of N Korea, the Assads of Syria, the Gandhis of India, the Duvaliers of Haiti, the Trujillos of the Dominican Republic, and the Somozas of Nicaragua are proof that not all political dynasties are worthy of admiration.

Link to post
Share on other sites

People like the Kims of N Korea, the Assads of Syria, the Gandhis of India, the Duvaliers of Haiti, the Trujillos of the Dominican Republic, and the Somozas of Nicaragua are proof that not all political dynasties are worthy of admiration.

 

Like the Audrey thread,  you go off in the most irrelevant directions.     Cody Jarrett is the character from the film White Heat.   He is a gangster \ criminal and his mom is part of his gang.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, there's nothing to say to that, except that of course you're entitled to your opinion.

 

Oh, hell, actually I do have something to say to it.

While I dislike watching some of the violence depicted in The Godfather, I have to say, I've seen a lot worse. I don't watch violent movies for their violence; but often, the film has something further to offer. If that's the case, then I  accept the fact that there's going to be some difficult scenes - sometimes I avert my eyes. But if the film is good, I don't let the violence in it stop me from wanting to see it.

 

Also:  I'll say it again ( already said in a previous post), that in fact the characters in The Godfather - at least those whose point-of-view is presented to the audience - (the Corleone family and their loyal supporters and henchmen) - are presented somewhat sympathetically. I kind of like quite a few of them. Coppola ( and writer Mario Puzo) make a point of showing us these people up close, not just when they're carrying out their terrible actions, but also when they're attending a family wedding, making spaghetti, discussing family matters. They make jokes, they kiss their wives and children, they revere their elders. 

 

I'm not justifying what they do, I'm just saying, one of the strengths of this movie is the way it gets you inside the main characters' heads and elicits at least a little sympathy for them. At least, I kind of like and sympathize with them. A bit. Not when they're dumping someone in the Hudson river, of course.

 

Palmerin, if you're upset and revulsed by the Corleones and their people, I imagine you don't watch many crime films, or maybe any films with violence.

Well said, misswonderly3, I agree with all you said. There is quite a contrast between their 'business' and their personal relationships which can be very warm and loving and their family bonds/loyalty (or lack thereof, in the case of Freddo).

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

We attended the big screen showing today and these Fathom Events bringing back classics (and some ‘not so classic’ oldies) in theatres is fantastic!  Ben Mankiewicz was great as always as host and offered some neat tid-bits of trivia. It is really something seeing the youthful Pacino, Duvall, Caan and Keaton on screen.  Hard to believe it’s the 45th Anniversary!

 

With regards to the film, The Godfather, the acting was superb.  The scene when Duvall has to tell Don Corleone that they killed Sonny, his deep sorrow and pain is palpable through his subtle facial expressions – and then the single tear! Outstanding!  The film is loaded with equally compelling acting from all the stars. It is also one of the more authentic ‘mob’ stories.

 

I partly disagree with whoever thought that Freddo was a sympathetic character. His misdirected loyalty makes him more like pathetic. However, he is rather the oddball of the family and for that it does invoke some sympathy. Also, someone mentioned Troy Donahue???  He is definitely not in The Godfather. As for the horse butcher scene -- I surely could have done without *that*. The point of it was that they will get you where it hurts, i.e. 'an offer you can't refuse'. I only wish they would have used a different demonstration of that.

 

Overall, the great directing, acting, character development, story cohesion and the ability to draw you in and evoke emotional reactions (of all sorts) makes this truly a magnificent film and one of my favorites.  If you happen to be a NYC Italian you can’t help but connect to some of the familiar expressions, family gatherings, ‘gravy’ making, and singing and that’s a plus.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

"Are there more magnificent films?

 

Yes.  

 

I found The Godfather incredibly boring.  I have no desire to watch it again.  Don't understand the appeal.

 

Goodfellas was way more entertaining and interesting. 

 

The only film (so far) that I've found more boring than The Godfather is Apocalypse Now

I can't understand someone describing The Godfather as 'boring'.  However, comparing it to Goodfellas is a little like apples and oranges.  The Godfather is more of an epic story and is more about the old 'moustache' mafia and drills down into the characters more.  I think the acting is of a higher caliber as well.

 

Goodfellas is actually based of real events and characters and takes place in more modern times.  It has a great soundtrack and is probably more fast-paced and 'action packed' than The Godfather.

 

I like both.

 

Another great film of the genre is Mobsters - which is also based on real characters and loosely based on true events - but takes place probably between the above two.  Not as old timey as The Godfather, but not as modern as Goodfellas.

 

The first film of this genre I ever watched as a kid was "The Black Hand" (1950).  It nearly terrorized me, or at least disturbed me.  It was an old black and white but left a definite impression.

 

However, in the end it's all a matter of taste.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Another great film of the genre is Mobsters - which is also based on real characters and loosely based on true events - but takes place probably between the above two.  Not as old timey as The Godfather, but not as modern as Goodfellas.

 

Mobsters was envisioned as Young Guns with gangsters: let's make a multi-character historical action flick and cast it with hot young actors. So you had Christian Slater as Lucky Luciano, Patrick Dempsey as Meyer Lansky, Costas Mandylor as Frank Costello, and Richard Greico as Bugsy Seigel. It has its moments, but it's also rather dopey in places, and it definitely romanticizes and white-washes gangsters even more than The Godfather. The time period was late 1910's through 1930ish, so it would have been parallel with the De Niro bits in The Godfather Part II, and well before the events in the first film.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Like the Audrey thread,  you go off in the most irrelevant directions.     Cody Jarrett is the character from the film White Heat.   He is a gangster \ criminal and his mom is part of his gang.

I thought you referred to VALERIE JARRETT and her kin.

Is it true that Ma Jarrett is based on Ma Barker?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought you referred to VALERIE JARRETT and her kin.

Is it true that Ma Jarrett is based on Ma Barker?

 

This is what Wiki has to say:  Another inspiration (for the film) may have been Fred Barker and Arthur Barker, notorious gangsters of the 1930s famously devoted to their domineering mother, Ma Barker.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what Wiki has to say:  Another inspiration (for the film) may have been Fred Barker and Arthur Barker, notorious gangsters of the 1930s famously devoted to their domineering mother, Ma Barker.

Family love gone all twisted is a really tragic thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Family love gone all twisted is a really tragic thing.

 

Yeah, but without it, where would Shakespeare be today, dude?

 

(...forgotten, that's where)

 

;)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

By now virtually all have seen Coppola's 1972 masterpiece The Godfather.

t goes without saying that it's the stuff of legend of course

All know it won the BP Oscar for 1972 & many may also be aware that AFI=-(American Film Institute) voted it the 3rd greatest American motion picture of all-time in it's 1st 1998 special survey. (NOTE: Most don't even seem to be aware of the revised 2007 AFI poll where it ranked only 2nd to Kane)

 

& according to him, he was never interested in telling another mob story, it was the family that got his juices flowing

 

But, who thinks it's overrated?

 

I for one pick it as my A #1 all-time favorite movie, but most be honest & cite Citizen Kane as the finest yet.

 

So much has been written, said-(too much) about it though, that it gets tiresome.

 

Leonard Maltin is among the chosen few that thinks the 1974 sequel is even greater.

 

I've spoken to so many folks that aren't even huge movie fans like us, that insist if it's on the tv, they are gravitated to it, no matter what else is going on

 

(TRIVIA: Do most of you also know-(probably by now) that Olivier & even Edward G. Robinson was 1st thought of to portray Don Vito Corleone. Mostly Olivier though?)

 

Ironically, TCM has never aired the film to date though. Legal rights obviously, or have they?

 

THANK YOU

I must be in a minority, I've watched the whole saga maybe at most once or twice, and its never really resonated with me. Growing up in an Italian neighborhood in the city I never met any Italians remotely like those depicted in the film.

 

It was only later in the early 70's that I knew some "wizeguys" (these guys weren't the brightest bulbs BTW) and saw an incident where someone was thrown out a window.  :o

Link to post
Share on other sites

I must be in a minority, I've watched the whole saga maybe at most once or twice, and its never really resonated with me. Growing up in an Italian neighborhood in the city I never met any Italians remotely like those depicted in the film.

 

It was only later in the early 70's that I knew some "wizeguys" (these guys weren't the brightest bulbs BTW) and saw an incident where someone was thrown out a window.  :o

I have.  Well, lemme 'splane.......

 

Our Italian next door neighbors were pretty much like many seen in the film.  Not the MOBSTER characters mind you, but more or less like the "civilian" family members seen in the opening WEDDING scenes. 

 

The movie is a film adaptation of a best selling novel.  Any issues with how Italians are depicted should be taken up with the novel's ITALIAN author MARIO PUZO.  It's a fictional movie based on a fictitious novel about a fictitional family and it's fictional activities. 

 

I NEVER go to see ANY movie expecting to see any historically or scientifically accurate DISSERTATION on ANY subject.   Unless it's specified  as being a documentary.  THEN it makes sense to endlessly quibble about it's content.

 

THE GODFATHER does a fine job of getting at least in an historical aspect, the SET DESIGNS, clothing, cars and ambient heard music "spot on".  And anything pertaining to the STORY is icing on the cake.  Excellently acted, superbly cast, impeccably filmed and flawlessly directed.  Even people who HAVEN'T taken any film classes LOVED this movie.  and for all the right reasons.  ;)

 

 

Sepiatone

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I must be in a minority, I've watched the whole saga maybe at most once or twice, and its never really resonated with me. Growing up in an Italian neighborhood in the city I never met any Italians remotely like those depicted in the film.

 

It was only later in the early 70's that I knew some "wizeguys" (these guys weren't the brightest bulbs BTW) and saw an incident where someone was thrown out a window.  :o

 

You haven't seen the latest Subway commercial?    Those type of Italians are still in that neighborhood according to Subway.

 

My wife is Italian and she felt that commercial was offensive;   Yea,  Frankly did good,  because he was able to find a great sub sandwich.     Yea,  those Italians really have aspirations!    :lol:  

Link to post
Share on other sites

What makes THE GODFATHER so interesting is also reading the BOOK.

the book was really based on the screenplay, but it fills in lots of great stories that we need to know.

In some corners of this world, we need all the help we can get!

 

Some super "mob" movies that came along in the 1950's were ripped off for crucial events in GODFATHER 1 AND 2.

 

Strangely, enough they all starred Richard Conte, who played Barzini in GODFATHER 1.

 

among them:

NEW YORK CONFIDENTIAL

THE BROTHERS RICO

Link to post
Share on other sites

I should point out that THE GODFATHER novel by PUZO was published three years before the movie was released, so it's safe to say the movie was based on the BOOK.  Which I read LONG before the movie came out.

 

 

Sepiatone

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
© 2021 Turner Classic Movies Inc. A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...