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MissGoddess

By MissGoddess,
in Film Noir--Gangster

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MissGoddess

MissGoddess

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For what it's worth, my top FAVORITE 25 films noir. Not necessarily "best"

films noir (or I would have had Touch of Evil included) As you can see,

they are fairly predictable though the order has shifted since I last made a list:

 

1. *Laura*

2. *On Dangerous Ground*

3. *Out of the Past*

4. *Clash by Night*

5. *The Reckless Moment*

6. *Ride the Pink Horse*

7. *Force of Evil*

8. *Dark Passage*

9. *This Gun for Hire*

10. Johnny O'Clock

11. *Murder My Sweet*

12. *In a Lonely Place*

13. *His Kind of Woman*

14. *The Big Heat*

15. *Impact*

16. *Woman on the Beach*

17. *The Maltese Falcon*

18. *Raw Deal*

19. *He Walked By Night*

20. *Witness to Murder*

21. *The Blue Gardenia*

22. *The Blue Dahlia*

23. *Dead Reckoning*

24. *Macao*

25. *Too Late for Tears*

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MissGoddess

MissGoddess

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Hi Dewey & Arkadin! Thank you so much for the replies---you two really know your

stuff so I'm mighty flattered.

 

The Blue Gardenia, Impact and Witness to Murder are films that keep rising

in my estimation. As for Force of Evil, if I were listing "Best of.." it would rank much

higher, maybe number two or three. Fantastic film; incredible script and performances.

 

Ride the Pink Horse and Johnny O'Clock are two that I can just watch over and

over with such pleasure.

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NatchuraLee

NatchuraLee

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I want to chime in on an old discussion debating *"The Woman in the Window"* vs. *"Scarlet Street"*. I have a minority opinion here: I think "WITW" is the better film. The dilemma the Robinson character finds himself in seems more gripping. Here's the hook: How would you react if you got caught up in something nasty in all innocence? Robinson as Chris Cross in "Scarlett" is such a knucklehead, it's hard to relate to him. What a shlemiel. He has no idea that Kitty (Joan Bennett) is a bit ch?

Oh, come on.

_(spoiler alert!)_

Now, WITW gets alot of criticism for its ending but back then, the dream ending must have been somewhat unique and not as trite as it seems to us today. And, boy, did I want Robinson to live! I was practically screaming at the screen when he prepared to do himself in.

Last thought: Dan Duryea is my favorite bad guy and he is equally phenomenal in both roles.

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ElusivePimpernel

ElusivePimpernel

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> {quote:title=NatchuraLee wrote:}{quote}

> Does anyone know where I can get a DVD of Don Siegel's 1946 The Verdict? (not to be confused with the 1980's Paul Newman film).

 

Well, NatchuraLee, I think I have a lead. Amazon has it listed as one of their "video on demand" offerings - BUT there is a hitch: the movie is currently listed as unavailable:

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Verdict/dp/B001FPIOQQ

 

So it's possible they're working on getting the rights to offer it as a VOD title. Your best bet might be to check back every now and then. They might have it soon.

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FrankGrimes

FrankGrimes

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Hi, NatchuraLee -- Welcome to the board!

 

I want to chime in on an old discussion debating "The Woman in the Window" vs.

"Scarlet Street". I have a minority opinion here: I think "WITW" is the better film. The

dilemma the Robinson character finds himself in seems more gripping. Here's the

hook: How would you react if you got caught up in something nasty in all innocence?

 

Scarlet Street is my favorite film noir of all but I also like

The Woman in the Window for the reason you state. As a guy, I like the

hypothetical of an intelligent, faithful married man being curiously tempted by a vision

that comes to life. It's easy to say we are strong from a distance but how do we fare

when intimately confronted? How strong are we? As I've said before, I believe

The Woman in the Window is a mental exercise, a "what if"?

 

Robinson as Chris Cross in "Scarlett" is such a knucklehead, it's hard to relate to

him. What a shlemiel. He has no idea that Kitty (Joan Bennett) is a bit ch?

Oh, come on.

 

As a stupid guy, I can tell you that I would be one knucklehead who would easily fall

for a woman who I was attracted to and who was providing me with attention. Yes, some

of us guys are that foolish. Loneliness and unhappiness can make many of us do things

we wouldn't normally do. We are more apt to be taken advantage of, to be hurt in such a

scenario. This in turn leads to blindness. Kitty wasn't a "B" to Chris. She was his love.

 

(spoiler alert!) Now, WITW gets alot of criticism for its ending but back then, the dream

ending must have been somewhat unique and not as trite as it seems to us today. And,

boy, did I want Robinson to live! I was practically screaming at the screen when he

prepared to do himself in.

 

I actually knew of the ending before I watched the film for the first time about a year and a

half ago. I like the ending. DOUBLE SPOILER ALERT -- I consider The Woman

in the Window to be Fritz Lang's The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.

 

 

Last thought: Dan Duryea is my favorite bad guy and he is equally phenomenal in

both roles.

 

Duryea is one of my favorite actors BECAUSE of his villainy. I prefer his "Johnny" in

Scarlet Street. It's my favorite performance of his.

 

If you are interested, you can find more discussions about The Woman in the Window

here:

 

http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=112064&start=30&tstart=0

 

http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?messageID=7979579

 

And if you are just looking to get a copy of Don Siegel's The Verdict, TCM will be

showing it on May 5th at 3:00 A.M., EST. It's listed on the schedule as "May 4th," but

it's actually the very early morning of May 5th.

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Fordy_Guns

Fordy_Guns

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> And if you are just looking to get a copy of Don Siegel's The Verdict, TCM will be

> showing it on May 5th at 3:00 A.M., EST. It's listed on the schedule as "May 4th," but

> it's actually the very early morning of May 5th.

 

Hi, FrankGrimes

 

That's awesome news!! I never look at the schedule so far ahead in advance, I guess. But Don Siegel's one of my favorite directors, mostly because of the movies he did with Clint Eastwood. Do you like spaghetti westerns?

 

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to watching Siegel's THE VEREDICT and I'm sure it won't be a letdown, pardner!

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FrankGrimes

FrankGrimes

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Hola, Miss G! -- What a horrendous film noir list you came up with! :P Actually, how

can I criticize a list that features three Fritz Lang flicks? I can't. Nicely done!

 

I haven't seen nine of your favorites.

 

I didn't know you liked The Reckless Moment that much. I may have to reevaluate my

wanting to see it so badly now. :P It looks like I need to watch Dark Passage.

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ElusivePimpernel

ElusivePimpernel

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> I didn't know you liked The Reckless Moment that much. I may have to reevaluate my

> wanting to see it so badly now. :P It looks like I need to watch Dark Passage.

 

I hope you'll enjoy *Dark Passage* Frank. Maybe we'll ramble about it someday? ;)

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MissGoddess

MissGoddess

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> Hola, Miss G! -- What a horrendous film noir list you came up with! :P Actually, how

> can I criticize a list that features three Fritz Lang flicks? I can't. Nicely done!

>

> I haven't seen nine of your favorites.

>

> I didn't know you liked The Reckless Moment that much. I may have to reevaluate my

> wanting to see it so badly now. :P It looks like I need to watch Dark Passage.

 

Good day, Mr. Grimes (it is Mr. Grimes, isn't it? One cannot be too

sure in these back alleys. All cats look alike in the dark. :P )

 

Gee, what a lot of PUDDLES all over the place. Got to be careful

where you STEP in "noir city".

 

I listed 3 Lang flicks? I mean to list 3 Ford flicks. :P

 

I loved The Reckless Moment, to the point I think it's my favorite movie

that features James Mason (along with Pandora and the Flying Dutchman).

 

Thank you for sharing your GENUINE enthusiasm for film noir.

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FrankGrimes

FrankGrimes

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Good day, Mr. Grimes

 

"Good day" and "Mr. Grimes"? Ohhhh, noooo! You're drunk... AGAIN, Lazy Legs!

 

(it is Mr. Grimes, isn't it? One cannot be too sure in these back alleys. All cats look

alike in the dark. :P )

 

Yeah, I know. In the dark, skunks sometimes look like cats. Ahhh, but the smell.

 

Gee, what a lot of PUDDLES all over the place. Got to be careful where you STEP

in "noir city".

 

Yes, lots of droppings.

 

I listed 3 Lang flicks? I mean to list 3 Ford flicks.

 

:D ChiO and Dewey didn't list three Lang flicks. What the heck has happened to

them? And what's with Arkadin not ranking his favorites in order? Get him to change his

mind by singing him a song. He's not a total sap like me, but I think he'll give.

 

I loved The Reckless Moment, to the point I think it's my favorite movie that features

James Mason (along with Pandora and the Flying Dutchman).

 

I still have to watch Pandora. Heck, I still have to watch both Pandoras. Sigh.

 

Thank you for sharing your GENUINE enthusiasm for film noir.

 

Ohhh, come now. You know I'm a fake and a phony; a total fraud. I'm always wearing my

many disguises. Have I ever told you that I think you are the most brilliant person on this

board? I haven't? I wonder why... :P:P:P

 

I'm in a Bogie mood, so maybe I'll watch Dark Passage.

 

Frank, check your Private Messages for some really cool film noir news. I'd post

it here, but, things getting buried as they do, it would not do justice enough. Too bad!

 

Must I? Can't I just follow you all around the board instead? That seems to be a very

popular thing to do. I want to be like others!

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Fordy_Guns

Fordy_Guns

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I still have to watch Pandora. Heck, I still have to watch both Pandoras. Sigh.

 

I take it the other Pandora would be *Pandora's Box*. It's a really great silent! I'll be you'll enjoy it even more than *Pandora and the Flying Dutchman* (although Ava is also very good in that one).

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Rickspade

Rickspade

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> Hi, NatchuraLee -- Welcome to the board!

>

> I want to chime in on an old discussion debating "The Woman in the Window" vs.

> "Scarlet Street". I have a minority opinion here: I think "WITW" is the better film. The

> dilemma the Robinson character finds himself in seems more gripping. Here's the

> hook: How would you react if you got caught up in something nasty in all innocence?

>

> Scarlet Street is my favorite film noir of all but I also like

> The Woman in the Window for the reason you state. As a guy, I like the

> hypothetical of an intelligent, faithful married man being curiously tempted by a vision

> that comes to life. It's easy to say we are strong from a distance but how do we fare

> when intimately confronted? How strong are we? As I've said before, I believe

> The Woman in the Window is a mental exercise, a "what if"?

>

> >

Hi FrankG/NatchuraLee,

 

I wanted to briefly get in here on the Scarlet Street and The Woman in the Window mini-debate. While I also like Woman in the Window very much, I'm with you Frank (as you can tell once you keep reading the rest of my message), I think Scarlet Street is the superior noir. Two things make it so for me: (1) the totally uncompromising bleak ending of Street as opposed to the frankly disappointing waking from a "dream" of Window. (2) the plot of Window involves peripheral characters and developments that remind me more of an Agatha Christie story than a film noir...and I'm not a fan of Christie mysteries at all. Street is bare-to-the bone, grisly, and malevolent, and some of its peripheral characters are as venal and compromised as Kitty, Chris, and Johnny. As for the ending, it's almost as if Lang had second thoughts about his rather innocuous ending for Window (filmed the year before) and decided to make a variation of the story, with much of the same cast, only this time make it with perhaps the most definitively "cold" ending in the entire film noir canon.

 

FrankG,

 

Some time ago I said I was going to join several others here and post my Top 25 Favorite Films Noir. Here is that list. Two things I'd mention. (1) I've chosen my _favorite_ 25 films, not the 25 films that I would claim to be the _best_ 25; however, I've chosen 25 films that I'm prepared to defend as certainly being worthy enough of being included in anyone's best 25 films (does that make sense?) (2) One problem I didn't anticipate in doing this. What to do with a film that I would normally put very near the top of my all-time favorite films, in any category, but which I would not necessarily rank as high on this particular list. Example: The Maltese Falcon is in my top 10 All-Time favorite film list, all categories combined. It's in the top 5. However, when placing it within the film noir list, it doesn't rank as high, simply because it doesn't fit my own rather arbitrary criteria for the ultimate in noir stories. (I don't know if that makes sense, either.) So, I'm going to stop explaining things and just list the films. If you want to discuss, as you've said, "I'll be down at the end of the bar."

 

1. Double Indemnity

2. Out of the Past

3. Scarlet Street

4. Pickup on South Street

5. Sweet Smell of Success

6. Nightmare Alley

7. Night and the City (1950)

8. Fallen Angel

9. The Asphalt Jungle

10. The Maltese Falcon

11. Criss Cross

12. D.O.A.

13. The Woman in the Window

14. Touch of Evil

15. The Night of the Hunter

16. Angel Face

17. In a Lonely Place

18. On Dangerous Ground

19. Gun Crazy

20. Where the Sidewalk Ends

21. The Big Sleep

22. The Killing

23. No Way Out

24. Force of Evil

25. Laura

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MarianStarrett

MarianStarrett

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Rick, you have definitely put together a terrific noir list! You are to be congratulated on your good taste. ;)

 

Although I'd probably put "D.O.A." and "Laura" a little bit higher than you did, overall you have picked most of the movies that come to mind when I try to think of great noir.

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Rickspade

Rickspade

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> {quote:title=MarianStarrett wrote:}{quote}

> Rick, you have definitely put together a terrific noir list! You are to be congratulated on your good taste. ;)

>

> Although I'd probably put "D.O.A." and "Laura" a little bit higher than you did, overall you have picked most of the movies that come to mind when I try to think of great noir.

 

 

Thanks, Marian. When I first got into film noir many years ago, Laura and D.O.A. were fairly high up on my favorites list; in fact, D.O.A. was one of the very first noirs I remember seeing, when I was a very young guy. While I still hold them in admiration, over the years they've dropped somewhat in the "pecking order," although I still remember them fondly because they remind me of how excited I was to discover this whole new genre of films. . .and it's a genre that I keep discovering anew with additional films all the time.

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MarianStarrett

MarianStarrett

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> {quote:title=Rickspade wrote:}{quote}

> Thanks, Marian. When I first got into film noir many years ago, Laura and D.O.A. were fairly high up on my favorites list; in fact, D.O.A. was one of the very first noirs I remember seeing, when I was a very young guy. While I still hold them in admiration, over the years they've dropped somewhat in the "pecking order," although I still remember them fondly because they remind me of how excited I was to discover this whole new genre of films. . .and it's a genre that I keep discovering anew with additional films all the time.

 

You're probably right, they are usually some of the first noirs that many people will get a chance to watch if they're just getting into film noir. And some of these films might make a very big impression the first time you've seen them, but they don't all retain all their impact through repeat viewings.

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NatchuraLee

NatchuraLee

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RickSpade & FrankGrimes and the rest of us who have this wonderfully bizarre fascination.

First, thanks, Frank, for your generous welcome and the head?s up on *The Verdict*. And Rick, thanks for coming forth and putting up your Faves list. I would like to urge you to consider adding *Roadhouse* (1948), The dialogue is smart and the plot actually works. Lupino and Widmark are incredibly vibrant. (Not to knock Cornel Wilde but he just doesn?t generate the same on-screen intensity.) Instead of the mystery man who arrives and creates havoc, here it is Lupino who comes to town and sets the two men into a spiral. Lupino is phenomenal ? let?s face it: she?s no Joan Bennett beauty but she plays it like she is and she absolutely pulls it off. Widmark is terrific as the obsessed jilted lover. The director Jean Negulesco could have had Widmark go all PeterLorre on us but instead allows us to stay sympathetic almost to the end because Jefty?s obsession is played rationally ? he seethes but he holds himself together and that is even more menacing. I love this film.

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