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ROBERT RYAN - The Real Quiet Man


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>

> That's so weird - I actually loved Ralph Meeker in this movie! Yes, he's selfish and hateful, but he is too stupid to be really manipulative. I get the impression he is the type who never grows up - what they would have called a "peter pan" type in the eighties... everything is always about him, all the time. And yet, he is good natured in a way that Ben really isn't. He is callow youth. He has all the makings of someone worthwhile - looks, good disposition, a body that is fit, a mind that works reasonably well. And yet, he is a magnificent waste of a man. It's very sad, really, his story, because he never finds self-knowledge, not even at the very end.

>

 

You're more forgiving than I! :D I also saw him in The Detective and oh, he's just an older and fatter version of Roy so it really solidified my impression of him as a baaaaaaaaaaaaad boy. Now I can aprpeciate the things you wonderfully pointed out about him. I think he's hard to beat at playing that kind of "bad boy". He's almost modern in that way.

 

> >I hadn't thought of it that way but you're right! What Kemp doesn't realize, is he's practically negating all his previous sacrifice by this new course.

>

> What you say about Kemp is all very true, but why then does he hold back from killing Vandergroat, each time he is given the opportunity? The money is his, dead or alive. That is where the fascination comes from, for me anyway. That is what Lina sees. Ben would never hold back his vindictiveness that way.

>

 

You are right! It's never that simple with Mann. His heroes and villains are both usually complex. We can't bring ourselves to hate the bad ones (well, except in Man of the West) totally or to completely see the "heroes" as 100% admirable...but both are very, very human.

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I totally feel the opposite with that last remark. While I do find he's more entertaining at the man-woman thing, I have never, ever felt moved emotionally by any of his films. The closest I came was with one or two of his very early movies. I find his movies entertaining and often exciting but never would I associate "tears" with him. He eschews sentiment almost every time.

 

I cry at the end of Only Angels Have Wings and I'm moved in Rio Bravo, Red River, and Ball of Fire. Devil's Doorway is the Mann film that made me cry. I love the ending of The Naked Spur, but it's mostly a release by the character more so than with me.

 

Love the man-woman interraction of To Have or Have Not and even Bringing Up Baby. I've yet to see Hatari!, but I'm expecting that to be "man-woman." And any time there is man-woman, I usually find some sentiment.

 

The Man from Laramie has a nice subplot that features man-woman. And I like the unique triangle in Raw Deal.

 

Yes, but your lies certainly do!

 

That's besides the point!

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>

> I cry at the end of Only Angels Have Wings and I'm moved in Rio Bravo, Red River, and Ball of Fire. Devil's Doorway is the Mann film that made me cry. I love the ending of The Naked Spur, but it's mostly a release by the character more so than with me.

>

 

You're a softie compared to me, then. I find OAHW moving but not to tears, except maybe with Tommy Mitchell. He's the "heart" of the movie, to me. Devil's Doorway is an extremely emotional film to me, too. It may be the most emotional for me, in Anthony Mann's work. Even more than Man of the West, which is more cathartic (similar to what you say about The Naked Spur).

 

> Love the man-woman interraction of To Have or Have Not and even Bringing Up Baby. I've yet to see Hatari!, but I'm expecting that to be "man-woman." And any time there is man-woman, I usually find some sentiment.

>

 

I find those two wildly entertaining but are you telling me you find them emotionally moving? I mean at a deep level? Gosh you ARE a softie!

 

> The Man from Laramie has a nice subplot that features man-woman. And I like the unique triangle in Raw Deal.

>

 

Now Raw Deal and The Furies are to me, Mann's super best movies about male/female relationships. They are excellent and one big reason why Raw Deal is my favorite of Mann's films noir. I love the triangle in that film, even more than in The Furies.

 

> Yes, but your lies certainly do!

>

> That's besides the point!

 

:D

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Jul 26, 2010 11:10 AM

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You're a softie compared to me, then.

 

Of course! I'm the romantic and you're snippy! Everyone knows this!

 

I find OAHW moving but not to tears, except maybe with Tommy Mitchell. He's the "heart" of the movie, to me.

 

The end rips me up. It's Geoff (Cary Grant) and Bonnie (Jean Arthur) that get me.

 

Devil's Doorway is an extremely emotional film to me, too. It may be the most emotional for me, in Anthony Mann's work. Even more than Man of the West, which is more cathartic (similar to what you say about The Naked Spur).

 

And that's about civil rights. That can move me to tears.

 

I find those two wildly entertaining but are you telling me you find them emotionally moving? I mean at a deep level? Gosh you ARE a softie!

 

Yes, I believe there are some deep feelings to be found in To Have or Have Not and Bringing Up Baby, particularly the former. Keep in mind, the focus of these films are the relationships. In Man of the West, there is a deep feeling between Link (Gary Cooper) and Billie (Julie London), but the primary focus is on Link. Billie is along for the ride.

 

Now Raw Deal and The Furies are to me, Mann's super best movies about male/female relationships. They are excellent and one big reason why Raw Deal is my favorite of Mann's films noir. I love the triangle in that film, even more than in The Furies.

 

The Furies is the bad side of man-woman, at least to me. It doesn't move me one bit. I love Raw Deal, though. That one is complicated.

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> Of course! I'm the romantic and you're snippy! Everyone knows this!

>

 

Some romantic, you don't like The Quiet Man.

 

> The end rips me up. It's Geoff (Cary Grant) and Bonnie (Jean Arthur) that get me.

>

 

They don't move me much. They interest me, though.

 

> Yes, I believe there are some deep feelings to be found in To Have or Have Not and Bringing Up Baby, particularly the former. Keep in mind, the focus of these films are the relationships. In Man of the West, there is a deep feeling between Link (Gary Cooper) and Billie (Julie London), but the primary focus is on Link. Billie is along for the ride.

>

 

Characters exhibiting deep feelings isn't enough to move me. It's how they are presented that moves me. I rarely cry when I laugh. Only Chaplin and occasionally, Lubitsch, can do that with me.

 

>

> The Furies is the bad side of man-woman, at least to me. It doesn't move me one bit. I love Raw Deal, though. That one is complicated.

 

I agree about The Furies, I just mean it's complex and deep, but it is mostly unpleasant. Only the character of Juan has any real heart.

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Some romantic, you don't like The Quiet Man.

 

I rank that higher on my "Ford" list than you do!

 

The end rips me up. It's Geoff (Cary Grant) and Bonnie (Jean Arthur) that get me.

 

They don't move me much. They interest me, though.

 

I like how they come together. It's wonderful.

 

Characters exhibiting deep feelings isn't enough to move me. It's how they are presented that moves me. I rarely cry when I laugh. Only Chaplin and occasionally, Lubitsch, can do that with me.

 

It's not that I cry during To Have and Have Not and Bringing Up Baby. But I'm definitely moved by the relationships. There is great sentiment to be found.

 

I agree about The Furies, I just mean it's complex and deep, but it is mostly unpleasant. Only the character of Juan has any real heart.

 

It's arguably the most complex of Mann's films. Well, at least of the ones I have seen. There isn't much sentiment to be found, though. It's mostly about power and control. That's the darker side of the man-woman dynamic.

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Dear _FG_ & MissG: Did I tell you that I'm taking a class on Robert Ryan?

 

I'm taking a class on Robert Ryan.

 

(No class on Timothy Carey was being offered. But, hey, *The Outfit* is coming up on TCM!))

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I'm taking a class on Robert Ryan.

 

Sensational! Do you know the films to be shown?

 

(No class on Timothy Carey was being offered.

 

That's because it's waiting for its professor, Professor.

 

But, hey, The Outfit is coming up on TCM!))

 

I've got it marked down. TCM has been doing Ryan good.

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*Do you know the films to be shown?*

 

Yes, indeedy.

 

*Crossfire*

*The Set-Up*

*Act of Violence*

*On Dangerous Ground*

*Clash by Night*

*Odds Against Tomorrow*

 

The class I recently finished was on Max Ophuls and one of the offerings was Caught, a movie that gets better each time I watch it.

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wow, chio, a class on robbie, really? i can only imagine what fun that will be. i hope you'll keep us posted bout the curriculum.

 

robert ryan in Chicago, john ford in north carolina, doesn't anyone teach in new york anymore?

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Crossfire

The Set-Up

Act of Violence

On Dangerous Ground

Clash by Night

Odds Against Tomorrow

 

Those are the bangers, especially when it comes to his prime and his film noir period. I wish they would have showed some variance in his age and his characters. But his talents are certainly showcased in those films.

 

The class I recently finished was on Max Ophuls and one of the offerings was Caught, a movie that gets better each time I watch it.

 

Oh, sure, rub it in. Caught is one of the elusive titles I'm hoping TCM plays.

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*I wish they would have showed some variance in his age and his characters.*

 

My sentiments exactly. The moderator (a friend) ran the list past me before it was finalized and I commented that it was all noir (not that that's a bad thing) and nothing post-'50s (And Hope to Die would have been nice; unfortunately, *The Wild Bunch* and *The Professionals* are arguably too long for a class session). He agreed, but the powers that be wanted him to focus on the noir.

 

There are worse things in life.

 

P.S. I also commented that there was one too many Robert Wise movies and suggested *House of Bamboo* by the greatest of "F" directors. He, however, really wanted to show Odds Against Tomorrow.

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The moderator (a friend) ran the list past me before it was finalized and I commented that it was all noir (not that that's a bad thing) and nothing post-'50s (And Hope to Die would have been nice; unfortunately, The Wild Bunch and The Professionals are arguably too long for a class session). He agreed, but the powers that be wanted him to focus on the noir.

 

I don't mind the focus being film noir, but the entire focus? A film like God's Little Acre would have brought a different kind of Ryan to the table. Or even Lonelyhearts, which still gives you a darker Ryan. And I think the class would have benefited from seeing The Woman on the Beach. That's a fantastic Ryan character and performance. Great character name, too. :P

 

There are worse things in life.

 

:D

 

I also commented that there was one too many Robert Wise movies and suggested House of Bamboo by the greatest of "F" directors. He, however, really wanted to show Odds Against Tomorrow.

 

Crossfire and Odds Against Tomorrow feature similar Ryan characters. I'd remove Crossfire for House of Bamboo, which showcases Ryan's delicate evil. The Naked Spur would have been a good western to show, too.

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All of those possibilities would have been great. Actually, I pushed for *Bad Day at Black Rock* and *Day of the Outlaw* as pushing-the-envelope noirs.

 

I guess it only goes to show that Mr. Ryan was in a good movie or two.

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Laraine Day and Robert Ryan

womanonpier13.jpg

 

I just finished watching The Woman on Pier 13 and I loved Robbie in it. What was most impressive is that I honestly had no idea which way his character was going to swing on the "communist" issue until the very end. His always-in-control swagger and ego kept me at a distance from his emotions. Everyone around him wears their heart and motives on their sleeve but Ryan is tough to figure. Is he telling the truth because he's so good at telling you what you want to hear, up to a point---to the point that he pulls the rug from under you and tells you what a sucker you are, ha.

 

That ambivalence kept me glued, even if some of the last portion of the film involving Laraine Day was a bit of a stretch. She did pick up pluck by the end, though. Janis Carter had the meatier role of the two ladies, and she too was hard to read. it was a plumb role for her. CinemAva, if you haven't seen it, you should. And I still say Janis looks like Rita Hayworth---more than ever while sporting a Lady from Shanghai hairdo. :D

 

I have to say, of all the communist themed movies I've seen, this one was perhaps the one I enjoyed the most. Thomas Gomez made a terrific villain, as did "Warren Burger" (I don't remember his name, only that he played Perry Mason's prosecuting adversary) and even John Agar showed signs of life.

 

The only fly in the ointment may be that Robbie and Laraine have zero chemistry together and her wardrobe was quite silly.

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*as did "Warren Burger" (I don't remember his name, only that he played Perry Mason's prosecuting adversary)*

 

That's "Hamilton Burger" (Warren Burger was Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court) aka William Talman, who had some other fine noir turns in Armored Car Robbery, The Racket, *City That Never Sleeps* and -- most especially -- The Hitchhiker.

 

*The Woman on Pier 13* is much better than some of the commentary would lead one to believe.

 

Edited by: ChiO on Aug 4, 2010 7:55 PM

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HamBurger!! Haaa! Now I won't forget his name again, thanks, ChiO.

 

Yes, the movie is better than I expected and I'm surprised it doesn't

draw more enthusiasm. It's one of Ryan's most precariously balanced

tightrope walks.

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Being a fan of Laraine Day, I can't help but notice that her costumes are almost always awful. I wonder what she did to annoy the costume department? The woman was great looking but always ended up with the ugliest clothing.

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I'd love for you to see this movie, Jackie. Laraine is very good toward the end when she has more to do with her character. (It's available on DVD by Warner Archives...I bet Netflix has it; I rented it via ClassicFlix).

 

The costumes she wore in this one were just...inexplicable. You'll see what I mean. Janis, on the other hand, got the best of the wardrobe picks. :D

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Aug 4, 2010 8:39 PM

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I looked it up at Netflix, but they don't have it. I am sure I can find it somewhere.

 

I always wonder how you could possibly make Laraine Day look bad - and yet, she will have some kind of a growth sticking out of the shoulder of her dress poking her in the chin, or her evening gown appears to be made entirely out of tweed, or the gown is designed so that her sleeves cut into her arms like knives, or her waist is set in the wrong place making her look fat. I can never figure out WHY someone would OK her horrendous costumes! There are photos and movies where she looks great, so it's not her figure (I think she was a model so it can't be that).

 

No wonder she never made it to the higher echelons of movie stardom - there are only a couple of movies where she has really decent costumes!

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> I always wonder how you could possibly make Laraine Day look bad - and yet, she will have some kind of a growth sticking out of the shoulder of her dress....

 

There's some evidence of that in Woman on Pier 13. :D

 

Laraine was a beautiful woman and seemed to have a great figure, so I don't know why the funny costumes. I hadn't really noticed this before in her other films, but there's no missing it in this one.

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> {quote:title=Bronxgirl48 wrote:}{quote}

> I'm not familiar with THE WOMAN ON PIER 13. I'm guessing Laraine Day's role here is much more satisfying than in FINGERS AT THE WINDOW.

 

Is FINGERS AT THE WINDOW online or on dvd by chance?

 

Laraine's character is rather limited in the main part of the film, but at the end she gets in on the action. She sort of "snaps" from meek housewife into police undercover woman, lol.

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> Is FINGERS AT THE WINDOW online or on dvd by chance?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, no to both. It's a minor work, but probably should be better known for the good cast and creepy premise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Laraine's character is rather limited in the main part of the film, but at the end she gets in on the action. She sort of "snaps" from meek housewife into police undercover woman, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've always liked Laraine, but as you know, Robert scares me, that face and, in your own words, "gimlet eyes", lol. He's handsome and so talented but I'm frightened all the time just looking at him, truly!

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