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ROBERT RYAN - The Real Quiet Man


MissGoddess

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> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}

> I caught just enough of it, while I made sure it was recording, to see Billingsley.

>

 

I hope you can watch it all soon and tell us your opinion.

 

> Did you catch the employee intro? There is a job that would suit me fine but I'm too old and not smart enough for law school.

 

I only got part of it because I was frantically trying to make space on my DVR hard drive, not realizing until it was almost too late that the reason it wasn't recording anything was because it was full.

 

I guess he was in the legal department, right? Boy, we could definitely use you there...anyone...to be the advocate for this board. :D

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I saw the beginning but drifted off to sleep after I knew it was recording, about the time when Ryan sees his psychiatrist who somehow convinces him to marry Babs. :D

 

I woke up in time to see that it was over. Why is it that I always do that? Not only do I sleep through the movie I most wanted to see, but I wake up JUST in time for the closing credits. It happens to me every time! Luckily I got a copy - but it's also available on Netflix for streaming.

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Well I hope you get to it, too, Jackie. It was a fun ride. Robbie is never dull, it's just not in his genes. :D

 

Poor Al Smith, he played the shrink. Literally "shrunk" next to Ryan. And they cast that little guy from *Casablanca* to play Ryan's assistant. It's as if they wanted to emphasize Howard Hughes' extreme height. Ryan was already a tall man to begin with but he looks like a giant next to those two actors.

 

I kept thinking of little Al dealing with a similar loose cannon, Dixon Steele, in *In a Lonely Place* and then there was crabby Robert Montgomery in *Ride the Pink Horse*. He was always stuck with the crazies. :D

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Mar 22, 2011 10:31 AM

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> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

> Something about him screams "psychiatrist"

 

:D Maybe because he's so tolerant, like someone who suffers fools and lets them run on at the mouth while he just listens. Hey! I need a guy like that!

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He was in the legal dept and he gets to research films to make sure they are okay to play. He was directly responsible for TCM getting the Lost RKO Films a few years ago.

 

I got all the movie so I hope to get to it this week.

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"Without a social education, you're never going to meet a real man."

 

Well.

 

Between this morning (with TCM's airing of "COME FLY WITH ME") and yesterday

(w/ "CAUGHT") I have learned how to catch a man, lose a man and catch another

man again. The only thing I might lose along the way is my dignity, self-esteem,

peace/(piece) of mind and my baby.

 

A tout a l'heure... and it will be spoiled.

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CAUGHT SPOILERS

 

Caught Caught last night and I did enjoy it.

 

I just finished watching Caught. It's quite interesting. I don't think I've seen a film like it, really. Do you know of any other classic film that views the loss of an unborn child as a positive? Amazing. The film seems like an inspiration for A Place in the Sun, too. It just happens to be the reverse and with the woman being the central character.

 

Ryan was great as always

 

He was terrific. But I was surprised to see how inconsequential he became.

 

and it was interesting seeing "Howard Hughes" on display. I may be the only one, but I felt sorry for the guy. He was clearly messed up.

 

As horrible a husband and person as he was, he was in the right more than Leanora (Barbara Bel Geddes). But it's hard for me to feel sorry for him.

 

Anyway, it was Barbara Bel Geddes' character that I could hang my emotions on to.

 

She was good. I like Barbara. I place her in the Shelley Winters and Anne Baxter class.

 

It's a story that unfortunately still goes on today.

 

Very much so... on a couple levels.

 

I like that they did not make it so neatly Smith Ohrig's (Robert Ryan) meanness at fault, but just as much her own inability to make up her mind what was more important to her: money and security (with a crazy husband), or love and no money (with a nice guy).

 

I think she was always one kind of girl. But she listened to you! And then she got herself "caught."

 

The ending was wrapped up a little suddenly, but I thought it was a good movie, one I'll surely watch again.

 

It was a very strange ending. It reminded me of Baby Face.

 

However, good as it was, I can't put it in the same class as The Reckless Moment.

 

I like that one a little better, too. Primarily because of Joanie. But I'd say Caught is very unique and terribly risque.

 

Did you catch Robert Osborne's comment on Arch of Triumph being a failure? That shocked me. I like that film!

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> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> "Without a social education, you're never going to meet a real man."

>

 

I'd say it's the first thing a woman better forget if she wants to keep a real man. :P

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CAUGHT SPOILERS

 

> I just finished watching Caught. It's quite interesting. I don't think I've seen a film like it, really. Do you know of any other classic film that views the loss of an unborn child as a positive?

 

I would have to think hard about specific titles, but I've seen it quite a few times in classic films. The convenient way to get rid of a troublesome situation for the heroine. The minute she woke up in that rumpled bed I knew a baby was on the way, and would be on its way out, too.

 

> Amazing. The film seems like an inspiration for A Place in the Sun, too. It just happens to be the reverse and with the woman being the central character.

>

 

You'll have to explain that one, it's too early for me to get the connection.

 

> He was terrific. But I was surprised to see how inconsequential he became.

>

 

This is one of the reasons that it really is in some ways a familiar "woman's story" picture, like so many---with a better director and script.

 

Everyone (Osborne, the guest host) kept saying how "bad" Ryan's Smith Ohrig was, but I guess it is a testament to Ryan's personality that I just found him unlikeable, not totally despicable. After all, he pretty much left her alone when she left him, only coming once for her, and it was her decision to be with him in the first place. I didn't like his character, but he wasn't a "villain" to me. I kept expecting him to kill her or someone, but he was more of a child.

 

>

> As horrible a husband and person as he was, he was in the right more than Leanora (Barbara Bel Geddes). But it's hard for me to feel sorry for him.

>

 

I felt sorry for him in the sense that he was an example of how brilliance, opportunity and almost unlimited wealth couldn't make a human happy who's soul was so empty.

 

>

> She was good. I like Barbara. I place her in the Shelley Winters and Anne Baxter class.

>

 

I might have liked the movie better with another actress, but I guess they wanted to make it clear that this is not the kind of girl who can be a part of Ohrig's world. She was a simple girl but almost like Emma Bovary, she bought into the 'dreams' that the world tantalizes us with. "You can have it all!"

 

> I think she was always one kind of girl. But she listened to you! And then she got herself "caught."

>

 

Then why did she say she wanted a millionaire husband? She was tempted and this is the conflict. She could not make up her mind. Quinada called her on that a couple of times. I think Ohrig did, too and so did the little man. She wanted it all. So do many of us, it's soooo seductive, that dream.

 

> It was a very strange ending. It reminded me of Baby Face.

>

 

I think for some reason they didn't know what else to do or could not film what they may have inteneded. It was too rushed.

 

> I like that one a little better, too. Primarily because of Joanie. But I'd say Caught is very unique and terribly risque.

>

 

I don't think it's very unique, but a little daring perhaps. You haven't seen as many women's pictures so the story line isn't as routine to you.

 

> Did you catch Robert Osborne's comment on Arch of Triumph being a failure? That shocked me. I like that film!

 

I was surprised. I like it too, but it is a real downer. The public doesn't always go for that.

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CAUGHT AND A PLACE IN THE SUN SPOILERS

 

I would have to think hard about specific titles, but I've seen it quite a few times in classic films. The convenient way to get rid of a troublesome situation for the heroine.

 

Really? I cannot believe such a thing would get past the Code. You'll have to think up a title or two for me.

 

The minute she woke up in that rumpled bed I knew a baby was on the way, and would be on its way out, too.

 

I was surprised, actually. I missed the shorthand. What Leanora did is something that is still very common today: women sleeping with guys they don't love. Crazy.

 

You'll have to explain that one, it's too early for me to get the connection.

 

In A Place in the Sun, it's a man who is "caught." In A Place in the Sun, the man settles for the "run-of-the-mill" girl because he doesn't think too highly of himself. He likes her attention and he's afraid to be alone since he's a mama's boy. In a way, it's a common "female" situation. Then he meets a beautiful, rich girl who he finds far more alluring. She ends up liking him. Meanwhile, the "run-of-the-mill" girl tells him she's pregnant. Now he's "caught." What to do? That's pretty much Caught.

 

This is one of the reasons that it really is in some ways a familiar "woman's story" picture, like so many---with a better director and script.

 

I guess I need to watch more woman pics.

 

Everyone (Osborne, the guest host) kept saying how "bad" Ryan's Smith Ohrig was, but I guess it is a testament to Ryan's personality that I just found him unlikeable, not totally despicable. After all, he pretty much left her alone when she left him, only coming once for her, and it was her decision to be with him in the first place. I didn't like his character, but he wasn't a "villain" to me. I kept expecting him to kill her or someone, but he was more of a child.

 

I thought he was cruel, but he wasn't on screen long enough for me to hate him. I was surprised to see him get pushed to the background.

 

I felt sorry for him in the sense that he was an example of how brilliance, opportunity and almost unlimited wealth couldn't make a human happy who's soul was so empty.

 

Nicely said. All he cared about was money and power.

 

I might have liked the movie better with another actress, but I guess they wanted to make it clear that this is not the kind of girl who can be a part of Ohrig's world. She was a simple girl but almost like Emma Bovary, she bought into the 'dreams' that the world tantalizes us with. "You can have it all!"

 

I believe you hit on it. Barbara Bel Geddes is more of a "regular" girl so she's easier for girls to identify with than someone like Lana Turner.

 

Then why did she say she wanted a millionaire husband? She was tempted and this is the conflict. She could not make up her mind. Quinada called her on that a couple of times. I think Ohrig did, too and so did the little man. She wanted it all. So do many of us, it's soooo seductive, that dream.

 

Did Leanora (Barbara Bel Geddes) want a millionaire husband? Wasn't she pushed into that by her sister? Her sister got on her about wanting "prince charming." She didn't want to go to the rich man's party on the yacht. She was pushed into that. The ideas of being a "proper girl" were from her sister. She's absolutely miserable in Long Island. Her sister is drooling over it all but she hates it all. Leanora was basically living out her sister's dream, not her own. She wants a guy to love her more than being rich. I just love that she wears Larry's (James Mason) coat. Before, she would mention wanting a mink coat but only because that's what all girls are expected to say. It's still done today, of course.

 

I think for some reason they didn't know what else to do or could not film what they may have inteneded. It was too rushed.

 

They ran out of money because of Arch of Triumph. That's what the guest programmer mentioned. He was excellent, by the way.

 

I don't think it's very unique, but a little daring perhaps. You haven't seen as many women's pictures so the story line isn't as routine to you.

 

I can't believe there are other films that make losing an unborn baby a happy moment!

 

I was surprised. I like it too, but it is a real downer. The public doesn't always go for that.

 

What do they know?! :D

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CAUGHT stars Barbara Bel Geddes, Robert Ryan and James Mason. Now knowing what James Mason's career was to become, I know he could have easily played the psychopathically domineering husband who could not take NO for an answer. But in this instance, Robert Ryan ably plays the unhinged but wealthy Rich Ohlrig. I wonder what went through Robert Ryan's mind when he read the script and accepted the role of such a distasteful man; did he find something in the man that HE wanted to explore? I kept waiting for some redeeming quality to be revealed; kept hoping b'cuz Ryan is so physically imposing and Alpha I am drawn to him in so many...uncinematic ways. But the only thing I culled was that any challenge to his character?s dominance manifested itself in him having a debilitating attack. (But to be honest girls, really...I kept hoping he'd see the error of his ways, from the safe confines of my bedroom).

 

What I did firmly get out of "CAUGHT" was a real and new appreciation of Barbara Bel Geddes. (I love her name). I haven't seen her in many films...just the same few movies over and over again (incl."VERTIGO", "I REMEMBER MAMA", TV?S DALLAS) which makes me feel like I know her work. When the film starts I thought she was awful pretty, pert, perky, spunky and (surprising to me) lazily comfortably sexy. Yeah. And smart, let me not leave out smart.

 

It was interesting to see the raison d'etre of all these girls was to get a husband. Look at the opening credits. It had the turning pages of a fashion magazine...just what all us girls read. (?) Hey, they got classes for catching a husband. Walk like this. Talk like that and VOILA!! You?ve got Him...hook, line and sinker. One 6'4" 190-lb American male. Yummy, when do we eat! You just have to cook him. I'm sure the charm school gave culinary lessons too.

 

I loved seeing our ol' pal (Art Smith) from "IN A LONELY PLACE" as Ohlrig's therapist. He's got it bad, but we don?t realize how bad until pretty quickly into his relationship with Bel Geddes (as Leonora). I think his domination of her is equal to his own self-hatred. Ultimately he doesn?t believe he?s worth anything without his money; that no one could possibly like him. And ultimately, that is very sad for him. He speaks contemptuously to her. (Ugh!) When he has this anxiety attack or whatever you might call it, it reminds of Cagney's Cody in "WHITE HEAT." Re: Leonora, I know she?s looking for a husband, a rich husband (is there any other kind worth looking for...in the movies)? But I never get the sense that she?s a cold-hearted gold digger. She's newly coiffed, well-tended, big pool, fancy schmancy...but the girl?s not happy. Even her visit with her ol' roommate doesn?t look too happy. I think they both unspokenly see that being married to a Rich Man is not all it?s cracked up to be. I like that Leonora does not cave in, she talks back. When Ohlrig tries to belittle her in front of all his colleagues, she answers him and walks out on him; in front of HIS colleagues. (Ha! Score One for the gold digger). That's the spunkiness I was referring to. But apparently marriage is just another means to control her.

 

All I care about is winning.

 

I hate blackmail plots in films. But psychological torture is the worst for me. I'll take ten Freddy Kreugers or Jason Voorhees exploding-headed horror films than view Ingrid Bergman tortured by Boyer. Leonora's presence is almost negligible in her husband's life. When his right-hand man, man-servant (played wonderfully by Curt Bois) plays the piano, he ignores her protestations to stop. She has to smack him in the face to get him to stop playing. The scene was tense, her asking...then begging him to stop. And he would not stop. Gr-r-r-r that is galling to me!! She was not listened to. What she wanted didn't matter. She almost did not exist. I thought that was very telling.

 

I like when Leonora gets steel in her spine. She leaves Ohlrig. Looks like she leaves with less than she had than when she met him. She's starting from scratch and gets a job as receptionist in a doctors office played by dreamy James Mason. He's so young and attractive...and that voice. His voice could melt icebergs...polar caps. He calls her on bringing her uptown hoity toity attitude to his downtown office and not improving her skills. (Now again in an effort to be honest, I didn?t quite buy James Mason as a doctor in a Lower East Side neighborhood. That accent is just too too. But hey...). He wants her to push herself to be better at her job. Here's a man who wants her to be more than an ornament to him.

 

After Ohlrig goes back to her with hat in hand (well...after he's had her followed and then goes to her), I have to admit I let my guard down and believed his sincerity.

 

I was wrong I admit it. It won?t be that way anymore Leonora. It won't. Well make a fresh start. We?ll make everything just the way it ought to have been. I'm so used to having my own way that it was hard for me to come here but I missed you and wanted you so much...

 

(I personally wished he would have sealed that with a kiss). Girls, he's just so darned big and strong. He looks like a mountain. If he would just let himself go, give himself half a chance, that little petite thing could wrap that big ol? bear around her little finger, you know she could. He does seem tender here, wanting to get her out of the "shabby" little apartment. I liked that he couldn't find the bathroom light switch. It's a little thing but I was looking for something human from him. She does have one night with him, but he doesn?t really give himself a snowball's chance in hell. To love, to be in love one must give up some control. Ohlrig and Leonora do have the one nite together, but his true motive is revealed shortly after and she's "outta" there.

 

If it was just a mere matter of rich (stability) vs. happiness (love), I don?t think they?d make Ohlrig such a prig. I suspect the convention would be to make him super busy and detached. But he?s putting her down in front of company. And she knows it, and calls him on it.

 

Leonora's back with Dr. Quinada and flourishes in her job and in her relationship with him. She can breathe and laugh and dance. I liked the scene at the bar. What was up with that lady interrupting??? Twice. I liked how Leonora didn?t give her single glance.

 

Some moments I enjoyed in the film:

 

* Did you notice Agnes from "The Big Sleep" played the charm skool receptionist?

* I liked the Mom in the clinic chastising her son who was blowing that dangfangled whistle.

* I enjoyed watching Frank Ferguson as the doctor hurrying into the office, running out of the office and loved his quiet conversations with Leonora and then with Dr. Q., Medecine Man.

* A scene I found equally as tense as the smack-the-piano player scene was when the man-servant, right-hand man, flunky pleaded with her to come down stairs to Ohlrig...and she would not. His desperation was palpable. It looked like his very life (livelihood) was dependent upon her coming downstairs. (Score Two for Leonora!)

* I thought it was a triumph for Leonora AND for this synchophantic little manny when he told Ohlrig he was a big man, but not big enough to destroy Leonora. I really felt happy. And then he quit. Bravo, Franzi.

* Did you notice the venetian blind shadows slashed across Leonora?s face...and how in the garage when Dr. Q. was grilling her, she was boxed in (or rather) her face was framed by the rung of a ladder.

* There's going to be a baby??? What the...

 

Yes, Leonora did go back to Ohlrig. I say she went back for the sake of the baby and its financial future. But what a low blow by Ohlrig to use Custody against her.

 

What is it about human nature? When I saw Ohlrig writhing on the floor asking for water, I did feel kind of bad for him. But when she walked OUT of the room, that really made me beam.

 

Why hasn't Barbara Bel Geddes really been on my radar before in a meaningful way? She didn?t get the big buildup of the glamor girls or the Actresses. But I see (now) she has what it takes. Her delivery is natural, conversational. She?s easy, unfussy and there?s strength in her common sense. I think I now see why Hitchcock used her in ?VERTIGO? and tamped her down. Nawwww, don?t be a silly goose. She?s no competition for Kim Novak who?s a whole ?nother galaxy and wattage completely. But from viewing CAUGHT I can see what ?Scottie? saw in ?Midge? in the first place, and not just maternal. I never saw that before ?CAUGHT/?

 

O? Hollywood. You spring little jewels on me. Thanx for suggesting this movie, Miss. G. I enjoyed it and Barbara Bel Geddes.

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That was wonderful, Lively Gal. I'm glad you came away liking Barbara Bel Geddes. She really is perky and spunky. She's a cute little fighter.

 

What's odd is that I just looked at her filmography and I've seen all of her films through Vertigo with the exception of I Remember Mama. I thought she appeared in more pics than she did. She mostly plays "supportive girls." And I like her as such. But I really liked her in Blood on the Moon. She's fiery in that one.

 

You know what I think attracts me to her? She seems to imitate Grace Kelly's speech. I think she did go to Dorothy Dale for some social acting lessons. :)

 

She's wonderful in Alfred Hitchcock Presents.

 

http://www.imdb.com/video/hulu/vi679740185/

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Why Grimesy, me boy. Thank you. - I just finished watching "Caught." It's quite interesting. I don't think I've seen a film like it, really. Do you know of any other classic film that views the loss of an unborn child as a positive? Amazing.

 

I have to admit, I have not quite seen a plot device like this. It felt wild, and very contemporary. It would have been worse if we had seen the child. But it was so true...Ohlrig would have never let her go if their child had been born.

 

The film seems like an inspiration for A Place in the Sun, too. It just happens to be the reverse and with the woman being the central character.

 

Hmmmm...tell us more. You always seem to have a different angle in your movie viewing. Interesting.

 

As horrible a husband and person as he was, he was in the right more than Leanora (Barbara Bel Geddes). But it's hard for me to feel sorry for him.

 

He was in the right MORE?? Do you think that it's right that if...no wait. Let me not jump the gun. Why do you say that?

 

She was good. I like Barbara. I place her in the Shelley Winters and Anne Baxter class.

 

...And I'd put her in the class with an Eva Marie Saint, though not as classically attractive. I've really come away saying, "hey wait a minute...come back here, Babs. I want to talk to you about your movies."

 

I like that one a little better, too. Primarily because of Joanie. But I'd say Caught is very unique and terribly risque.

 

If I had to choose between the two, I found "CAUGHT's" plot a little more streamlined and accessible than "The Reckless Moment." (The housewife, spectacle-wearing, boxy-looking Joan put me off just a teeny tad). But I did enjoy the movie and James Mason's performance in it.

 

I was surprised, actually. I missed the shorthand. What Leanora did is something that is still very common today: women sleeping with guys they don't love. Crazy.

 

Grimesy, do men sleep with women they don't love?

 

The ?shorthand? in movies amazes, stupefies and makes me laugh at times. I?ll be watching a movie and then all of a sudden, I see the plot take a leap over the Grand Canyon, and all of a sudden someone is pregnant or a couple falls in love and all he?s done is say ?Good Morning? to the leading lady. When I saw Leonora in bed with her nightgown slightly disheveled, I knew they exercised their conjugal duties, but I never leaped to "having a baby." Yikes!

 

In A Place in the Sun, it's a man who is "caught." In A Place in the Sun, the man settles for the "run-of-the-mill" girl because he doesn't think too highly of himself. He likes her attention and he's afraid to be alone since he's a mama's boy. In a way, it's a common "female" situation. Then he meets a beautiful, rich girl who he finds far more alluring. She ends up liking him. Meanwhile, the "run-of-the-mill" girl tells him she's pregnant. Now he's "caught." What to do? That's pretty much "Caught."

 

Aaaaahhh...I see what you're saying. But I'd say no man is ever as "caught" out there getting that phone call, as a woman is being told "the rabbit died."

 

I thought he was cruel, but he wasn't on screen long enough for me to hate him. I was surprised to see him get pushed to the background.

 

I found him hateful. His psychological torture of Leonora was far reaching even if he wasn?t onscreen as much. A little bit of Robbie the Menace goes a long way. Not that there's anything wrong with that. As for him being pushed to the background...Robert Ryan rarely got the girl. He was a very gorgeous hunk o' Ralph Bellamy/Melvyn Douglas.

 

Thank you much for the Hitchcock link. I'll check it out.

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MAJOR CAUGHT SPOILAGE

 

Hola, Lively Gal -- I have to admit, I have not quite seen a plot device like this. It felt wild, and very contemporary. It would have been worse if we had seen the child. But it was so true...Ohlrig would have never let her go if their child had been born.

 

I was thinking the other way, actually. I was thinking how Dr. Quin, Medicine Man (I loved that) and Leonora could end up marrying each other without the divisiveness of a child fathered by Ohlrig. It would be just them, not them and the child of another. Dr. Quin seemed jubilant about it all, as he looked to pep up Leonora about it, too. It felt like an abortion film. I have never seen such a film like it. Usually such films have the pregnant woman getting killed. That's the "abortion."

 

He was in the right MORE?? Do you think that it's right that if...no wait. Let me not jump the gun. Why do you say that?

 

Because she was basically cheating on him. She was in love with another man... while married AND pregnant with their child. We never see Ohlrig cheating on her. All he's doing is having an elicit affair with his money and himself. That's who he is. It's not as if he changed after marriage. If he did, then she'd have a valid gripe. But he is who he is, before and after.

 

"I'm marrying a vampire!" Then after the marriage... "How dare you be a vampire!"

 

And I'd put her in the class with an Eva Marie Saint, though not as classically attractive. I've really come away saying, "hey wait a minute...come back here, Babs. I want to talk to you about your movies/"

 

Oh, yeah? I've only seen Eva in North by Northwest and she came across as a porcelain doll to me. She seems "high class." Barbara seems like a regular girl. That's how I typically feel about Anne Baxter and Shelley Winters.

 

If I had to choose between the two, I found "CAUGHT's" plot a little more streamlined and accessible than "The Reckless Moment." (The housewife, spectacle-wearing, boxy-looking Joan put me off just a teeny tad). But I did enjoy the movie and James Mason's performance in it.

 

Well, when you put it that way, I agree with you.

 

Do men sleep with women they don?t love?

 

Are you kidding?! Most of the time! But I view women as being smarter when it comes to sex. Women are the ones who ultimately end up paying the price if something goes wrong... which happens a lot more than ever. Women usually raise the children while men leave the scene. I'm always surprised to hear of a woman just sleeping around. Men will always be dumb when it comes to sex. It's up to women to be smart... for their own good.

 

The ?shorthand? in movies amazes, stupefies and makes me laugh at times. I?ll be watching a movie and then all of a sudden, I see the plot take a leap over the Grand Canyon, and all of a sudden someone is pregnant or a couple falls in love and all he?s done is say ?Good Morning? to the leading lady. When I saw Leonora in bed with her nightgown slightly disheveled, I knew they exercised their conjugal duties, but I never leaped to "having a baby." Yikes!

 

Well, that little revelation comes via Leonora buttoning up her top at the doctor's office. That's the shorthand for that. I just wasn't prepared for it.

 

Aaaaahhh...I see what you're saying. But I'd say no man is ever as "caught" out there getting that phone call, as a woman is being told "the rabbit died."

 

That's my entire point from above. My comparison of the two films isn't about the two being exactly alike. It's just I found them to be very similar.

 

I found him hateful. His psychological torture of Leonora was far reaching even if he wasn?t onscreen as much. A little bit of Robbie the Menace goes a long way. Not that there?s anything wrong with that. As for him being pushed to the background...Robert Ryan rarely got the girl. He was a ver gorgeous hunk o' Ralph Bellamy/Melvyn Douglas.

 

I never felt his threat until his mention of custody. Even Dr. Quin challenged him to his face. He hung over Leonora, to be sure, but I just didn't fear him. He was caught up in himself and his money, mainly.

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Evening Miss G. - The minute she woke up in that rumpled bed I knew a baby was on the way, and would be on its way out, too.

 

Whew!! You're good, Miss G. I didn't see that coming at all.

 

This is one of the reasons that it really is in some ways a familiar "woman's story" picture, like so many---with a better director and script.

 

She certainly was a damsel in distress. But if you say the words "woman's story" won't guys high tail it to the hills and run away...run away?

 

Everyone (Osborne, the guest host) kept saying how "bad" Ryan's Smith Ohrig was, but I guess it is a testament to Ryan's personality that I just found him unlikeable, not totally despicable.

 

Despicable? Well...he was really not a good guy. I didn't care for the way he put her down...and then wanted her to stay there and just take it.

 

After all, he pretty much left her alone when she left him, only coming once for her, and it was her decision to be with him in the first place.

 

You're right, he did leave her alone. (I kept expecting him to show up like crazy Louis Jourdan in "JULIE."). I was glad she walked out on him. And though she chose to be with him in the first place, did that give him carte blanche to be demeaning to her??

 

I didn't like his character, but he wasn't a "villain" to me. I kept expecting him to kill her or someone, but he was more of a child.

 

A big, angry, tantrum-ing child.

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:) Frank: You have made my day. When I hit the Hulu site, I was expecting to see the leg of lamb story which everybody remembers. Instead I get "The Foghorn" which is one of the shows I remember the most but never seem to catch in reruns. I'd forgotten Michael Rennie was the man which makes this a double whammy.

 

I feel the same way about William Shatner and The Twilight Zone; "Nick of Time" is much better than the airplane tale but nobody ever mentions it. Thank you! :)

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I wish it was that easy to make everyone's day, WouldBeStar! :) You're welcome. "The Foghorn" is my favorite episode from season three of Alfred Hitchcock Presents. I think it's very sad and quite profound. Those kind of episodes always stick with me in television and movies.

 

It's basically Alfred Hitchcock Presents: Now, Voyager.

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Hello, Dr. Quinada,

 

*CAUGHT* Spoilers

 

> I would have to think hard about specific titles, but I've seen it quite a few times in classic films. The convenient way to get rid of a troublesome situation for the heroine.

>

> Really? I cannot believe such a thing would get past the Code. You'll have to think up a title or two for me.

>

 

If I do that, it would spoil the movies for you.

 

> I was surprised, actually. I missed the shorthand. What Leanora did is something that is still very common today: women sleeping with guys they don't love. Crazy.

>

 

There was no "shorthand" about a baby, it's just a scenario I've seen so often I knew what was coming.

 

> In A Place in the Sun, it's a man who is "caught." In A Place in the Sun, the man settles for the "run-of-the-mill" girl because he doesn't think too highly of himself. He likes her attention and he's afraid to be alone since he's a mama's boy. In a way, it's a common "female" situation. Then he meets a beautiful, rich girl who he finds far more alluring. She ends up liking him. Meanwhile, the "run-of-the-mill" girl tells him she's pregnant. Now he's "caught." What to do? That's pretty much Caught.

>

 

I guess so. I guess *A Place in the Sun* was the male version of Madame Bovary and I view *Caught* as a reworking of MB.

 

> This is one of the reasons that it really is in some ways a familiar "woman's story" picture, like so many---with a better director and script.

>

> I guess I need to watch more woman pics.

>

 

I think you should, too, since you do respond to emotional films, even tragedy.

 

>

> I believe you hit on it. Barbara Bel Geddes is more of a "regular" girl so she's easier for girls to identify with than someone like Lana Turner.

>

 

Definitely.

 

>

> Did Leanora (Barbara Bel Geddes) want a millionaire husband? Wasn't she pushed into that by her sister? Her sister got on her about wanting "prince charming." She didn't want to go to the rich man's party on the yacht. She was pushed into that. The ideas of being a "proper girl" were from her sister. She's absolutely miserable in Long Island. Her sister is drooling over it all but she hates it all. Leanora was basically living out her sister's dream, not her own. She wants a guy to love her more than being rich. I just love that she wears Larry's (James Mason) coat. Before, she would mention wanting a mink coat but only because that's what all girls are expected to say. It's still done today, of course.

>

>

 

Leonora specifically outlined to her sister her dream, how she'd become a model and meet a millionaire and live happily ever after. and if I'm not mistaken, she told her sister that Chinchilla was better than mink, not as "common" or something like that. Now I could have it backward---it could have been the sister that said that about Chinchilla, I'd have to replay that section. Leonora was full of ideas, silly, vain, girlish ideas that many of us grow up with. Problem is, many women attain those things and it can make the rest of us pea-green. :D

 

I think her sister just wanted her to have a practical plan of getting that dream to become real, not just sit around talking about it.

 

> I can't believe there are other films that make losing an unborn baby a happy moment!

>

 

I didn't see it as a "happy" moment but a way out and that occurs in several movies of the past. Those convenient "accidents".

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Hello, Tall T,

 

>

> She certainly was a damsel in distress. But if you say the words "woman's story" won't guys high tail it to the hills and run away...run away?

>

 

Unfortunately, they do. I'll never understand why stories about some of the most important events in women's AND men's lives are considered second-rate. War, murder, greed...these are "lofty" material? :D But men are dreamers, and women like stories about reality, which includes the cornerstone of human life: the relationship between man and woman. Oh, but that's a soap opera people have been conditioned to think. I never have quite bought that.

 

> Despicable? Well...he was really not a good guy. I didn't care for the way he put her down...and then wanted her to stay there and just take it.

>

 

Unfortunately, powerful people are often this way. They may not be as over-the-top as Smithy, there, but just try them a little too far and you can lose a finger. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, someone wisely said. But does anyone ever learn? History tells us, "no".

 

>

> You're right, he did leave her alone. (I kept expecting him to show up like crazy Louis Jourdan in "JULIE."). I was glad she walked out on him. And though she chose to be with him in the first place, did that give him carte blanche to be demeaning to her??

>

 

In his world, yes. That's the price of admission. There are no rules of civility in a world where you don't have to pay any immediate consequences for your actions. Poor people can go after each other when they do wrong, you can't touch the Smithy's. You either take it and find a way to live with it, or get out.

 

> A big, angry, tantrum-ing child.

 

:D

 

P.S. I'd advise poeple to copy their work before hitting the "Post Message" button. I've noticed this place "times out" when you take more than a couple of minutes to write a post or PM and you might lose everything...it did this a while back and I thought they had the bug fixed. Fortunately my browser lets me go back and retains what I wrote but I'd be mad if I didn't take precautions.

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CAUGHT and SPOILED and CAUGHT and SPOILED AGAIN!!!

 

When I saw Leonora in bed with her nightgown slightly disheveled, I knew they exercised their conjugal duties, but I never leaped to "having a baby." Yikes!

 

Well, that little revelation comes via Leonora buttoning up her top at the doctor's office. That's the shorthand for that. I just wasn't prepared for it.

 

The shorthand that I mean was how they didn't give us an inkling that she thought she was pregnant, to prompt her to go into the other doctor's office. (I'm not very bright for a Maven, sometimes).

 

I was thinking the other way, actually. I was thinking how Dr. Quin, Medicine Man (I loved that) and Leonora could end up marrying each other without the divisiveness of a child fathered by Ohlrig. It would be just them, not them and the child of another. Dr. Quin seemed jubilant about it all, as he looked to pep up Leonora about it, too.

 

Oh I see. Well, that is the ending that they're going to have. Not so much "Hey you lost your baby. YIPPEEE!" But "Hey, you are free from that mad-man 'cuz he was never gonna let'cha go Leo!!!" No baby...no Ohlrig. Just Dr. Quin and Leonora with perhaps a baby in their future. Ha! You don't think she'll be able to work after she's married to the doc, d'ya?? That's not part of the social contract. (Oh, thanx for getting my tv reference with Dr. Quinn).

 

It felt like an abortion film. I have never seen such a film like it. Usually such films have the pregnant woman getting killed. That's the "abortion."

 

Abortion film? Whew! Well THAT's a pretty heavy statement, but I grant you, it was pretty unusual. One film does come to mind: "WRITTEN ON THE WIND." (I told you there'd be spoilage). While sensible dad Robert Keith goes tumbling down a flight of stairs head first, luscious Dorothy Malone mamboes in her room, and dutiful Lauren Bacall has a miscarriage of Robert Stack's baby. Now, no baby by her alcoholic husband can come between Rock Hudson and Bacall. And Rock and Lauren can ride off into the Texas oil-welled sunset.

 

Because she was basically cheating on him. She was in love with another man... while married AND pregnant with their child. We never see Ohlrig cheating on her. All he's doing is having an elicit affair with his money and himself. That's who he is. It's not as if he changed after marriage. If he did, then she'd have a valid gripe. But he is who he is, before and after.

 

"I'm marrying a vampire!" Then after the marriage... "How dare you be a vampire!"

 

HA! If Ohlrig would only cheat...

 

And if he is having an illicit affair, he was rich enough and handsome enough to have an affair with himself. Ohlrig was a good catch...for Ohlrig. Yes, he is who he is. If only he was truthful. The man didn't even want to accept who he is from his doctor. Hence he could not give Leonora his Whole Truth. Remember this psychiatric exchange:

 

Ohlrig: I took her home and we said goodnight. That happened three or four more times and then I dropped her.

 

The Doctor: Why?

 

Ohlrig: They come a dime a dozen.

 

The Doctor: I thought, from what you said before, she was sweeter than most of the girls?

 

Ohlrig: Psychiatrists and elephants. They never forget. Oh I think this is all pointless anyway.

 

The Doctor: But why did you come here?

 

Ohlrig: 'Cuz I don't like getting upset so easily and you're supposed to be able to calm me.

 

The Doctor: I can if you work with me and not against me. Let's go back to the girl.

 

Ohlrig: Well for your information she's after precisely what everyone's after...my money.

 

The Doctor: Well maybe the girl feels you just want to play around with her.

 

Ohlrig: She's right if she does. You don't think I want to marry her do you?

 

The Doctor: I certainly hope not.

 

They talk of his past business dealings that precipitates his heart attacks.

 

Ohlrig: Whenever I can't get what I want, I have an attack, is that your theory?

 

The Doctor: Yes. There's nothing organically wrong with your heart. So why the attacks? Well, lets consider whether it's just a way of saying 'I'm not all powerful. I'm weak. Take pity. Give me what I want.'

 

Ohlrig: I have these attacks because I have a bad heart. But that's too simple for you. You have to find some insane Freudian reason...what are some of your other little gems? I must destroy everyone I can't own? I'm afraid all anyone wants is my money. I'll never marry because I'd only be married for my money...Well you're wrong doctor. Dead wrong. I am going to get married. I'm not afraid of anyone. What's more, do you want to know something? I'm going to marry that girl.

 

He puts in a call to his manservant, Franzi, to "get a hold of uh, Leonora what's her name? Yes Eames."

 

Ohlrig to the Doctor: Sorry to cut off a major source of your income, Doctor, but you won't see me again. And I do as I please.

 

The Doctor: Yes. That's why you made your call. I said I didn't think you'd marry and so you've made arrangements to prove I'm wrong. You don't really want to marry this girl. You've only done this because youre angry at me. And to prove that no one has authority over you. A marriage like this will only ruin the girl and you.

 

Ohlrig: That's your opinion.

 

So it's a two-fold thing: KNOW your truth...and TELL your truth. I seriously doubt Ohlrig initially showed Leonora his vampire fangs until after the ring was on her finger and the ink dried on the iron-clad, binding, Draconian, marriage certificate.

 

When Ohlrig came to get her the first time, she wanted him back. She wanted him; not that she was missing the money:

 

Ohlrig: Truth is, I'm a little jealous of him.

 

Leonora: You don't have any reason to be...as much as I wish you did.

 

Ohlrig: Why?

 

Leonora: I'm glad to see you. And I wish I weren't.

 

More lovey-dovey small talk. Then:

 

Ohlrig: I can't see you in this dirty little room.

 

Leonora: It's not dirty Smith.

 

Ohlrig: It's shabby. It's awful. It's ragged. Let's get out of here Leonora...You really don't like living here.

 

Leonora: No one's poor by choice. It really isn't such a bad room.

 

Ohlrig: Not if you...haven't seen better.

 

I don't know what Leonora could infer from his actions b'cuz we were not really shown his actions during the courtship. We did see how he came a-courting to get her to come back to him. But we soon found out his ulterior motive for that move. So with that I infer that he knows how to lie and act lovingly. I don't mind the always ever-popular 'blaming the victim' if the victim has all the truthful information. I don't subscribe wholly to caveat emptor.

 

On my second viewing I paid more attention to the newspaper montage of the whirlwind courtship. Ohlrig's face is covered by his hat. The contrast between the carhop pix and model pix, her mom saying she always knew her daughter would be a success. (Ha! Marrying rich...nothing of her own merit and accomplishment. And personally, I was shocked to see a Black woman standing next to Leonora's mother in that photo). The last shot of the paper of the palatial space with the screaming headline: CAN LEONORA BE HAPPY HERE? WE COULD.

 

Oh, yeah? I've only seen Eva in North by Northwest and she came across as a porcelain doll to me. She seems "high class." Barbara seems like a regular girl. That's how I typically feel about Anne Baxter and Shelley Winters.

 

I hear ya about the porcelain doll. I was thinking about the acting...quiet, not showy or actress-y. Shelley and Annie always felt actress-y to me. I like 'em.

 

If I had to choose between the two, I found "CAUGHT's" plot a little more streamlined and accessible than "The Reckless Moment." (The housewife, spectacle-wearing, boxy-looking Joan put me off just a teeny tad). But I did enjoy the movie and James Mason's performance in it.

 

Well, when you put it that way, I agree with you.

 

I don?t mean to be mean with my shallow-ness. I s?pose it was good to show that the "houswife" type could have men attracted to her. She need not be The Vamp.

 

Do men sleep with women they don?t love?

 

Are you kidding?! Most of the time! But I view women as being smarter when it comes to sex. Women are the ones who ultimately end up paying the price if something goes wrong... which happens a lot more than ever. Women usually raise the children while men leave the scene. I'm always surprised to hear of a woman just sleeping around. Men will always be dumb when it comes to sex. It's up to women to be smart... for their own good.

 

Men use love to get sex. Women use sex to get love. In this day and age of beaucoup contraception, girls still think they can hook a man by getting pregnant. If not for purposefully wanting a child why is she getting caught? You're so very right in your statement here Frank. Women must be smart...for their own good. I lived it up during the 70's & 80's, with high, wide and handsome without once "getting caught."

 

I really enjoyed this film. Why haven't I heard of it before. Tsk! Tsk! Shame on me!

 

Edited by: CineMaven on Mar 24, 2011 1:56 PM - I've got to make sense, even if my mind is bludgeoned by the news of Elizabeth Taylor.

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Despicable? Well...he was really not a good guy. I didn't care for the way he put her down...and then wanted her to stay there and just take it.

 

Unfortunately, powerful people are often this way. They may not be as over-the-top as Smithy, there, but just try them a little too far and you can lose a finger. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, someone wisely said. But does anyone ever learn? History tells us, "no".

 

This does not speak well of the rich. By the by, Greer would love you calling him "Smithy." ( :-) )

 

*****

 

...And though she chose to be with him in the first place, did that give him carte blanche to be demeaning to her??

 

In his world, yes. That's the price of admission. There are no rules of civility in a world where you don't have to pay any immediate consequences for your actions. Poor people can go after each other when they do wrong, you can't touch the Smithy's. You either take it and find a way to live with it, or get out.

 

YIKES!! No home training, ey? I got smacked for not saying "No thank you" one Thanksgiving long ago. I believe you. I'll take your word.

 

****

 

A big, angry, tantrum-ing child.

 

:D

 

I?m glad you smiled. I treaded lightly ?cuz Robbie?s your baby.

 

****

 

Leonora specifically outlined to her sister her dream, how she'd become a model and meet a millionaire and live happily ever after. and if I'm not mistaken, she told her sister that Chinchilla was better than mink, not as "common" or something like that. Now I could have it backward---it could have been the sister that said that about Chinchilla, I'd have to replay that section. Leonora was full of ideas, silly, vain, girlish ideas that many of us grow up with. Problem is, many women attain those things and it can make the rest of us pea-green.

 

You?re so right here, Miss G. I found Bel Geddes did play Leonora rather girlie, girlish. She can be kind of "youngish." Maybe that?s what I was picking up when I wrote comfortably sexy earlier. And sis liked chinchilla. ?Mink is so everyday,? she says to Leonora.

 

Uhmmmm...color me pea green, sometimes. But if that?s the price of admission Scarlett (belittlement, demeaning...) I?ll wear my nice thick wool pea coat, pick up my marble and go home thankyouverymuch.

 

I think her sister just wanted her to have a practical plan of getting that dream to become real, not just sit around talking about it.

 

Yup, I?m with you thar, as well.

 

P.S. I'd advise poeple to copy their work before hitting the "Post Message" button. I've noticed this place "times out" when you take more than a couple of minutes to write a post or PM and you might lose everything...it did this a while back and I thought they had the bug fixed. Fortunately my browser lets me go back and retains what I wrote but I'd be mad if I didn't take precautions.

 

Good advice. Now here is what I do. I formulate my thoughts and type up my posts in a Word document. I format my bold and my underlined and my italicized words there (, ,). Once I get the post the way I want, I cut and paste it into this wankered Message Board. If I'm giving a short and sweet answer, I can just type in the Message Board space. I fear, I am long-winded though. (My apologies folks). What I AM noticing with this new re-design debacle is that the apostrophes and quotation marks I type elsewhere don?t translate here. So it looks like I don?t know the proper format and punctuation...when I really really do.

 

And I?ll go through this for interesting film discussion.

 

Unfortunately, powerful people are often this way. They may not be as over-the-top as Smithy, there, but just try them a little too far and you can lose a finger. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, someone wisely said. But does anyone ever learn? History tells us, "no".

 

If "PATHS OF GLORY" didn't stop War dead in its tracks, nothing ever will.

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