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ROBERT RYAN - The Real Quiet Man


MissGoddess

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>

> YIKES!! No home training, ey? I got smacked for not saying "No thank you" one Thanksgiving long ago. I believe you. I'll take your word.

>

 

They give them Ritalin instead. :P

 

>

> Im glad you smiled. I treaded lightly cuz Robbies your baby.

>

 

No need to tread lightly, CM. :D

 

> Youre so right here, Miss G. I found Bel Geddes did play Leonora rather girlie, girlish. She can be kind of "youngish." Maybe thats what I was picking up when I wrote comfortably sexy earlier. And sis liked chinchilla. Mink is so everyday, she says to Leonora.

>

 

Thank you for the clarification. And for taking the time to watch the movie twice! I watched *Shock Proof* twice last week, and I haven't done that with a movie in probably a year. And no, I don't really think it's that great a movie, I just found it an easy watch for some reason. But don't ask me to watch *The Naked Kiss* again anytime soon...now THERE were some scenes that were painful for me to see. Yike!

 

> Uhmmmm...color me pea green, sometimes. But if thats the price of admission Scarlett (belittlement, demeaning...) Ill wear my nice thick wool pea coat, pick up my marble and go home thankyouverymuch.

>

 

Smart lady.

 

> Good advice. Now here is what I do. I formulate my thoughts and type up my posts in a Word document. I format my bold and my underlined and my italicized words there (, ,). Once I get the post the way I want, I cut and paste it into this wankered Message Board. If I'm giving a short and sweet answer, I can just type in the Message Board space. I fear, I am long-winded though. (My apologies folks). What I AM noticing with this new re-design debacle is that the apostrophes and quotation marks I type elsewhere dont translate here. So it looks like I dont know the proper format and punctuation...when I really really do.

>

 

It's amazing how many flaws an upgrade can introduce...

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CAUGHT has been floating disturbingly through my brain for quite some time, since I first saw it years ago as a very young girl back in the Bronx. I had retained nightmarish images of Bel Geddes and Ryan in some horrible danse macabre within that gloomy Gothic mansion. Sends shivers down my spine just thinking about it. Catching it on TCM, after many decades brings it all creeply back to me.

 

Is there any actor other than Robert Ryan who could project what I can only describe as a Satanic lonliness in a role such as this? (no wonder he's so great as the evil Claggert in BILLY BUDD) There's nothing Byronically romantic about Ryan as a fallen angel; he's all lean, terse, neurotic, black turtle-necked modernism, always on the brink of exploding, half in love with death and morbidly fascinated by his own obsessions. With his stony, impassive Kabuki-mask face, black-coal glinty gimlet eyes, smirky, twisted mouth. he's an alienated monster in a world he doesn't understand. As Smith Ohlrig, he's scary as hell, let's face it, lol. But I do feel some pity, hoisted by his own petard through the tantrumy insistance on marrying a shallow Dorothy Dale "charm" school alumni who immediately made me despise her when she changed her name from lovely Laura to pretentious Leonora. Who the heck is called Leonora except some 19th century heroine? I like Barbara Bel Geddes. she's an intelligent, thoughtful actress, but I couldn't connect in any empathetic way with this immature, social-climbing simp who, as Curt Bois tells the now-hitched once former car-hop: "You're too greedy, darling. You have all this but want him to pick up your hankerchief". She's like Morris in THE HEIRESS. The money's not enough, she needs his love too? Yeah, I know, Smith courted her as "Prince Charming" and then, after getting what he "wanted", proceded to treat her as just another possession. And, instead of flying off to the French Riviera as frustrated-wife "compensation", she decides to assert her independence by returning to the work force? But of course if she were soaking in the sun on the Cote d'Azur, she wouldn't have met idealistic, good, non-greedy Dr. Quinada, played by a somewhat miscast James Mason, who gives her a respectable, (non-Republican) cloth coat to symbolize the shift in Leonora's world view through these two men in her life, away from what the status mink represents.

Quinada doesn't believe in hiding moles with beauty marks. Real subtlety there, lol. Ophuls reminds me somewhat of Douglas Sirk, with the ironical social observations, but Ophuls keeps more of a jaded, incisive, realistic distance. There's a lot of "camp" I find in those headlines. When Smith keeps deriding Leonora with brittle put-downs, you'd think the hapless girl was some sort of hardened,, experienced hussy. Leonora slapping Franzi is also rather over-the-top as well.

 

That ending, eh. Dr. Hoffman sounded positively cheerful about the baby's fate.

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Mar 26, 2011 11:21 PM

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"I CALL MYSELF PHOEBE..."

 

CAUGHT has been floating disturbingly through my brain for quite some time, since I first saw it years ago as a very young girl back in the Bronx...Catching it on TCM, after many decades brings it all creeply back to me.

 

Funny how movies do that...how strong our memories are for things. I have never seen this film before, and I'm glad I did b'cuz it introduced me to an actress I thought I knew.

 

There's nothing Byronically romantic about Ryan as a fallen angel; he's all lean, terse, neurotic, black turtle-necked modernism, always on the brink of exploding, half in love with death and morbidly fascinated by his own obsessions. With his stony, impassive Kabuki-mask face, black-coal glinty gimlet eyes, smirky, twisted mouth. he's an alienated monster in a world he doesn't understand.

 

My God Bronxie! Your adjectives are sheer poetry and quite accurately describes Robert Ryan's screen persona in many of his roles; intractable, unyielding, relentless. Breathtakingly written. Robert Ryan in "THE SET UP" is the reason I can (kind of) forgive him all the mean guys he's por- trayed. I rather have him on my side than agin me, that's for sure. And his change of heart in "ON DANGEROUS GROUND" is eye-opening espe- cially from where his character started. ("Why do you punks make me do this!!!!" THWACK!!!)

 

But I do feel some pity, hoisted by his own petard through the tantrumy insistence on marrying a shallow Dorothy Dale "charm" school alumni who immediately made me despise her when she changed her name from lovely Laura to pretentious Leonora. Who the heck is called Leonora except some 19th century heroine?

 

HA!!! You still make me laugh when you make me take my medicine. But I didn't think Leonora bad at all. She just had foolish girly notions. (Now see: "How To Marry A Millionaire" or "Where The Boys Are" for some man-hunting gold diggers. Or come to NYC on a Friday nite).

 

I like Barbara Bel Geddes. she's an intelligent, thoughtful actress, but I couldn't connect in any empathetic way with this immature, social-climbing simp...

 

We've seen gold diggers before in movies and we know how they act. I didn't get the sense of her wanting money for money's sake. (See 'Kitty' in "Scarlet Street" and what she does for love).

 

The money's not enough, she needs his love too? Yeah, I know, Smith courted her as "Prince Charming" and then, after getting what he "wanted", proceeded to treat her as just another possession. And, instead of flying off to the French Riviera as frustrated-wife "compensa- tion", she decides to assert her independence by returning to the work force?

 

Ha! Posting in "Cosmo" Helen Gurley Brown? I say let the poor girl work. She needed income. I'm not quite sure why she didn't go back to modeling unless she didn?t want the world to know she was a "failure" as a wife. (After all, she WAS in all the papers, though how you could even read a paper with it spinning around and around is a technique I never mastered). To have her even choose to work sounds kind of radical (Rosie the Riveter notwithstan-

ding). The Riviera jaunt sounds good though, Bronxie. And probably having affairs with some young very handsome and 'accomodating' gigolos sounds even better.

 

But of course if she were soaking in the sun on the Cote d'Azur, she wouldn't have met idealistic, good, non-greedy Dr. Quinada, played by a somewhat miscast James Mason, who gives her a respectable, (non-Republican) cloth coat to symbolize the shift in Leonora's world view through these two men in her life, away from what the status mink represents.

 

Not a big loss. I think of Thelma Ritter checking the coats in "ALL ABOUT EVE." Again, I love your astute observations delivered in a funny withering way; you're killing me. But if Leonora's really a gold-digging vixen, she'll get pregnant almost immediately (to hold the man) and then she?ll vex Dr. Q into getting a practice ?Uptown? where the elite, meet. She?ll be be in furs and diapers in no time. But seriously, I didn't get the impression from her that she was out for just the money. I didn't see Morris in Leonora.

 

Quinada doesn't believe in hiding moles with beauty marks. Real subtlety there, lol...

 

Guess the doc was trying to tell her to keep it real...and not what she "thinks" is the proper way.

 

There's a lot of "camp" I find in those headlines. When Smith keeps deriding Leonora with brittle put-downs, you'd think the hapless girl was some sort of hardened,, experienced hussy. Leonora slapping Franzi is also rather over-the-top as well.

 

I loved the dizzying headlines montage and its shorthand way of moving the story forward. Her slapping Franzi was shocking to me...and just moments before when she was begging him to stop was torturous and tense to me.

 

That ending, eh. Dr. Hoffman sounded positively cheerful about the baby's fate.

 

Yeah, it was. It did kind of have an off note, but I was just happy she escaped Smithy. Imagine the guilt Hollywood convention would have made her endure if Smith died on the floor. That would have appealed to my noirish heart...but Leonora's no Morris.

 

And Leonora's no Regina Giddens either.

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Well, let me throw some of my thoughts in here too .

 

Ryan is very good as a man who is as strange as his name. A man so fixed on himself being successful that he has transcended his power from ridiculously rich tycoon to king. He orders everyone around. He goes to Leonora only once and that is purely selfish. Otherwise anytime he demands she come to him and when she won't he demands his man go and get her. It is all about how he can have his way - in any fashion. Ryan plays him well that I can't imagine anyone else in the part. What does surprise me is how Smith would have settled for such a "simple" woman. Could it have been anymore than the conquest and to defy his doctor? He does because he can.

 

Barbara grows into the part so that by the time she has decided to marry Mason she is much more complicated. Her reaction when Mason gives her the coat may be her best scene in the picture. I think more of her by the end. Mason is as genial as he has ever been.

 

Some things struck me about the filming of several scenes. One involved the doctors both standing in their doors divided by the empty desk. The scene starts on the desk and goes back and forth until the camera swoops back around to the desk where it carries the same shot as it began.

 

The garage scene is racked with imagery. As soon as Leonora mentions the baby it cuts to a shot of her framed by the ladder. Framed or jailed may be the word for it. Even the ladder is between her and Larry. When Smith comes in they are spaced in a triangle and Leonora paces between them. This would seem to reflect her state as she paces between them in her heart if not her mind. And then a shot of Larry on the left and Leonora on the right with Smith very large and between them. He is the thing that will separate them.

 

Smith is all about winning. It is not the baby he cares about but only being ruining Leonora's life. He gives no thought to anyone else and, as shown in the projector room, has no regard for anything contradictory to his own thoughts.

 

An odd film. It certainly walks the narrow border of rules for the day. No powerhouse name to it but it is interestingly cast with a most unusual story.

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What a great review, MM. I really enjoyed your thoughts and your characterization of 'Smithy.' I, too, was struck by the scene of the doctors talking over Leonora's empty desk. Dr. Hoffman seemed very very wise.

 

And so do you.

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Hello, Duchess!

 

Oh boy, "Satanic loneliness"! Well, he is pretty menacing. I just find there's something human behind most of Ryan's worst characters, something of a childish nature. His "Smithy" is really obtuse when it comes to human emotions, people in general. In a way, he's as ignorant as a spoiled 7 year old. What makes him potentially dangerous is he is smart. Yet the danger never fulfilled itself. I kept expecting him to kill her, really, and it didn't happen.

 

Was it the character Leonora you disliked, or Bel Geddes' manner of playing her? Barbara can have a very plaintive aspect to her. I see her Leonora as a true ignorant child. She talks and acts and makes decisions as a kid would, a kid that's easily influenced and easily led. I couldn't really say either one of them provoked very strong emotions beyond my feeling Leonora was playing with fire. What I liked was seeing a kind of mockery of the way society idolizes the lifestyles of the rich and famous, and forgets how screwed up a lot of those lives are. To me, it was the story of Emma Bovary, with the events reversed: instead of meeting and marrying the steady doctor first, and then falling for the dashing, wealthy "prince", she meets the "prince" first, marries him, and finds herself falling for the steady doctor, afterward. This should in a way make us more sympathetic to the girl, because she is supposedly growing up, showing more depth in her choices.

 

The movie also reminds me a little of another movie, *I Take This Woman* with Spencer Tracy and Hedy Lamarr.

 

Reading back over this, I remember another movie that *Caught* resembles, to me: *Dragonwyck*. In fact, it is VERY similar.

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Mar 27, 2011 11:17 PM

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7:30AM On Dangerous Ground (1951)

 

A tough cop sent to help in a mountain manhunt falls for the quarry's blind sister. Cast: Ida Lupino, Robert Ryan, Ward Bond. Dir: Nicholas Ray.

 

This film will air Saturday morning. Watch it if you can.

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> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> "I CALL MYSELF PHOEBE..."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HA! And also played by another Barbara.

>

> CAUGHT has been floating disturbingly through my brain for quite some time, since I first saw it years ago as a very young girl back in the Bronx...Catching it on TCM, after many decades brings it all creeply back to me.

>

> Funny how movies do that...how strong our memories are for things. I have never seen this film before, and I'm glad I did b'cuz it introduced me to an actress I thought I knew.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seeing CAUGHT again made me realize it wasn't exactly a "danse macabre" between Smith and Lee -- what prententious rot I can spew.

Ryan would probably seem macabre to me even in a comedy.

>

> There's nothing Byronically romantic about Ryan as a fallen angel; he's all lean, terse, neurotic, black turtle-necked modernism, always on the brink of exploding, half in love with death and morbidly fascinated by his own obsessions. With his stony, impassive Kabuki-mask face, black-coal glinty gimlet eyes, smirky, twisted mouth. he's an alienated monster in a world he doesn't understand.

>

> My God Bronxie! Your adjectives are sheer poetry and quite accurately describes Robert Ryan's screen persona in many of his roles; intractable, unyielding, relentless. Breathtakingly written. Robert Ryan in "THE SET UP" is the reason I can (kind of) forgive him all the mean guys he's por- trayed. I rather have him on my side than agin me, that's for sure. And his change of heart in "ON DANGEROUS GROUND" is eye-opening espe- cially from where his character started. ("Why do you punks make me do this!!!!" THWACK!!!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can't wait to see ON DANGEROUS GROUND. I understand it's coming up again. I get this title confused with another one he did with Ida where he's a mysterious tenant with questionable emotional stability?

>

> But I do feel some pity, hoisted by his own petard through the tantrumy insistence on marrying a shallow Dorothy Dale "charm" school alumni who immediately made me despise her when she changed her name from lovely Laura to pretentious Leonora. Who the heck is called Leonora except some 19th century heroine?

>

> HA!!! You still make me laugh when you make me take my medicine. But I didn't think Leonora bad at all. She just had foolish girly notions. (Now see: "How To Marry A Millionaire" or "Where The Boys Are" for some man-hunting gold diggers. Or come to NYC on a Friday nite).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But those gold diggers are likeable. Leonora has no personality, she's a simp and a drip and I hate her. LOL. Why does she even deserve the love of Dr. Mason? I guess she "proves" her worth by going back to work and becoming "independent".

>

> I like Barbara Bel Geddes. she's an intelligent, thoughtful actress, but I couldn't connect in any empathetic way with this immature, social-climbing simp...

>

> We've seen gold diggers before in movies and we know how they act. I didn't get the sense of her wanting money for money's sake. (See 'Kitty' in "Scarlet Street" and what she does for love).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kitty in SS is a real masochistic piece of work. Unscrupulous and sleazy. But you know what? I "like" her better than Leonora, don't ask me why.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

> The money's not enough, she needs his love too? Yeah, I know, Smith courted her as "Prince Charming" and then, after getting what he "wanted", proceeded to treat her as just another possession. And, instead of flying off to the French Riviera as frustrated-wife "compensa- tion", she decides to assert her independence by returning to the work force?

>

> Ha! Posting in "Cosmo" Helen Gurley Brown? I say let the poor girl work. She needed income. I'm not quite sure why she didn't go back to modeling unless she didn?t want the world to know she was a "failure" as a wife. (After all, she WAS in all the papers, though how you could even read a paper with it spinning around and around is a technique I never mastered). To have her even choose to work sounds kind of radical (Rosie the Riveter notwithstan-

> ding). The Riviera jaunt sounds good though, Bronxie. And probably having affairs with some young very handsome and 'accomodating' gigolos sounds even better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All I can say is, I would have opted for the Riviera, at least at first. Get something OUT of your marriage, for goodness sake. Meet David Niven and spend a winter or two or three, at the Bonjour Tristesse villa.

Then stay in Europe and if you feel you must work, become a real estate agent.

>

> But of course if she were soaking in the sun on the Cote d'Azur, she wouldn't have met idealistic, good, non-greedy Dr. Quinada, played by a somewhat miscast James Mason, who gives her a respectable, (non-Republican) cloth coat to symbolize the shift in Leonora's world view through these two men in her life, away from what the status mink represents.

>

> Not a big loss. I think of Thelma Ritter checking the coats in "ALL ABOUT EVE." Again, I love your astute observations delivered in a funny withering way; you're killing me. But if Leonora's really a gold-digging vixen, she'll get pregnant almost immediately (to hold the man) and then she?ll vex Dr. Q into getting a practice ?Uptown? where the elite, meet. She?ll be be in furs and diapers in no time. But seriously, I didn't get the impression from her that she was out for just the money. I didn't see Morris in Leonora.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm superficial with the Morris comparison. Leonora at the outset wanted the whole package, the Cinderella fantasy, love and money all neatly wrapped up, followed by happily ever after, whereas inintially Morris "just" wanted Catherine's wealth, but later on (for reasons I still don't understand), "needed" her love too.

>

> Quinada doesn't believe in hiding moles with beauty marks. Real subtlety there, lol...

>

> Guess the doc was trying to tell her to keep it real...and not what she "thinks" is the proper way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't teach real charm in charm school. Only good manners. Leonora is one of the least charming characters ever, lol.

>

> There's a lot of "camp" I find in those headlines. When Smith keeps deriding Leonora with brittle put-downs, you'd think the hapless girl was some sort of hardened,, experienced hussy. Leonora slapping Franzi is also rather over-the-top as well.

>

> I loved the dizzying headlines montage and its shorthand way of moving the story forward. Her slapping Franzi was shocking to me...and just moments before when she was begging him to stop was torturous and tense to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never thought Lee would strike Franzi, but I guess he's just the type you WOULD hit.

>

> That ending, eh. Dr. Hoffman sounded positively cheerful about the baby's fate.

>

> Yeah, it was. It did kind of have an off note, but I was just happy she escaped Smithy. Imagine the guilt Hollywood convention would have made her endure if Smith died on the floor. That would have appealed to my noirish heart...but Leonora's no Morris.

>

> And Leonora's no Regina Giddens either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're right, of course. Leonora wouldn't hurt a fly.

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Apr 3, 2011 8:23 PM

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> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> Hello, Duchess!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, Mrs.R!

 

>

> Oh boy, "Satanic loneliness"! Well, he is pretty menacing. I just find there's something human behind most of Ryan's worst characters, something of a childish nature. His "Smithy" is really obtuse when it comes to human emotions, people in general. In a way, he's as ignorant as a spoiled 7 year old. What makes him potentially dangerous is he is smart. Yet the danger never fulfilled itself. I kept expecting him to kill her, really, and it didn't happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I always eee the wheels turning in any Ryan character, his calculations "rationalizing" the dark instincts.

>

> Was it the character Leonora you disliked, or Bel Geddes' manner of playing her? Barbara can have a very plaintive aspect to her. I see her Leonora as a true ignorant child. She talks and acts and makes decisions as a kid would, a kid that's easily influenced and easily led. I couldn't really say either one of them provoked very strong emotions beyond my feeling Leonora was playing with fire. What I liked was seeing a kind of mockery of the way society idolizes the lifestyles of the rich and famous, and forgets how screwed up a lot of those lives are. To me, it was the story of Emma Bovary, with the events reversed: instead of meeting and marrying the steady doctor first, and then falling for the dashing, wealthy "prince", she meets the "prince" first, marries him, and finds herself falling for the steady doctor, afterward. This should in a way make us more sympathetic to the girl, because she is supposedly growing up, showing more depth in her choices.

>

> The movie also reminds me a little of another movie, *I Take This Woman* with Spencer Tracy and Hedy Lamarr.

>

> Reading back over this, I remember another movie that *Caught* resembles, to me: *Dragonwyck*. In fact, it is VERY similar.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, Goddess, the perceptive connections you make -- if I had a brain in my head I would have thought of DRAGONWYCK. Both cautionary tales about women who get the reality of what they dreamily wish for. And Emma Bovary, in reverse. You are brilliant.

 

Oh, I meant Leonora, not Bel Geddes in the role. I love Barbara as Midge in VERTIGO, and Katrin in I REMEMBER MAMA, where those two characters have so much warmth and humanity. So obviously Ophuls must have told her to be as obnoxious as possible, lol. Frankly I felt she and Smith deserved each other.

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Apr 3, 2011 6:20 PM

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I finally caught *Caught* !

 

I enjoyed the movie, it was good, though I too expected a little more of a jolt from Smith Ohlrig - there was a lot of buildup - but no real payoff. He scared me, but then never really followed through, which makes me think that he wasn't as bad as everyone said he was.... he was scarred by his money. He never really believed that anyone could love him for anything else, and so he sabotaged his own relationships, closing off from anyone who really cared for him. I think there was a very small window of opportunity for Smith and Leonora to have found happiness, but he blew it. If he had treated her as a princess just a little, using all his wealth and personality to make her happy at the beginning, that would have gotten her through anything - she would have really fallen for him and done anything for him and he might have been a very happy man. But he was so insecure, he didn't even think enough of himself or anyone else to give it a try.

 

I thought the whole surrogate thing was by far the most fascinating part of the plot. Curt Bois as Franzi was just superb... oily, always present, hanging around to do Smith's bidding, and maybe pick up a little something, whether it might be the wife's affections, or a pair of diamond cufflinks... brilliant! I loved to hate him, and yet I felt sorry for him too. Having to pick up the leftovers is quite degrading.

 

I have never seen James Mason as NICE as he is in this movie - it makes me appreciate him more as an actor - I really LIKED him, with no reservations, which I can't say I ever have before. In spite of his having the most ridiculous lines, and the silly sanctimonious job of telling Barbara Bel Geddes that she only imagined she was in love with Robert Ryan.... I still liked him.

 

As for Barbara - I too felt that she had girlish dreams that were basically unrealistic, maybe based on the movies she saw and magazine articles she read. I thought she was kind of idealistic compared to some of her friends. She was swayed by those "friends" into believing that life among the rich would be a piece of cake. Even more to the point, she didn't think past the point of being married. Achieving the marriage was as far as her thoughts took her. She believed that the money was the man. Smith's mistake was in thinking she was "a dime a dozen" or just like all the others.

 

Goddess, I loved the way you compared this to Madame Bovary, only in reverse...it's an excellent point, and I think Ophuls might have even had it in mind. Ophuls direction was as always, really interesting without being obtrusive - the guest programmer mentioned the scene in the bar where the camera swings around 180 behind the couple as they get jostled and bumped in the crowd... at first, Mason looks so uncomfortable, almost as if he's made a mistake in his lines, but Ophuls keeps cranking and they continue the scene, it becomes surprisingly intimate after, and Mason is more likable and real than in anything else I've seen him in.

 

Movieman, I love some of the shots you talked about - the desk part, and the ladder part - I love how fluid Ophuls direction is....he is like the ocean, or water lapping around finding an inlet into the lives of his characters. The sum of the cast and the director is greater than the script here, unfortunately, but it was still a good movie. I could even recommend it as a decent noir.

 

The only other Ophuls film I've seen, where the script was as dazzling as the direction and cast, was *The Earrings of Madame de*.... it was outstanding. I am definitely hooked on Ophuls now, and am really looking forward to seeing more of his movies. It feels like they should be savored, and appreciated for what they are. He reminds me of Lang a little, like he is getting at something more in the script sometimes than is actually there - but when he hits it, oh, brother, it's like nothing else.

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The one with Ryan as an emotionally disturbed handyman (not tenant) with Ida Lupino has the Raymond Chandler-ish title *Beware, My Lovely*....and I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE it....

 

but I think I may be the only one. Talk about a danse macabre.

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Ah, thank you. You know, I've seen BEWARE, MY LOVELY but the plot has now gone entirely out of my head.

 

I think I'll watch CAUGHT again, this time on YouTube. Maybe there is something in Leonora I can appreciate, though I doubt it.

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  • 3 months later...

Yoo-hoo. OH YOOO-HOOO!! NYC's Film Forum is going to honor The Real Quiet Man for two weeks. Between August 12 -25 they will be featuring the films of ROBERT RYAN. The program says:

 

"In movies, I've pretty much played everything I'm dedicated to fighting against."

 

In life an anti-McCarthy, anti-nukes, civil rights crusading liberal, Robert Ryan (1909-1973) was one of the screen's greatest heavies, unforgettably investing bigots, psychos and gangland kingpins with his 6'4" boxing authority, and seemingly rarer good guy parts with his own real-life integrity.

 

This is the Schedule...

 

****************

 

AUGUST 12-13

* CROSSFIRE

* THE SET-UP

 

AUGUST 14

* THE NAKED SPUR

* BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK

 

AUGUST 15

* BERLIN EXPRESS

* BEWARE, MY LOVELY

 

AUGUST 16

* HORIZONS WEST

* CITY BENEATH THE SEA

 

AUGUST 17

* ODDS AGAINST TOMORROW

* LONELY HEARTS

 

AUGUST 18

* INFERNO

 

AUGUST 19

* CAUGHT

* CLASH BY NIGHT

 

AUGUST 20

* ON DANGEROUS GROUND

* ACT OF VIOLENCE

 

AUGUST 21

* THE WILD BUNCH

* BORN TO BE BAD

 

AUGUST 22

* THE RACKET

* I MARRIED A COMMUNIST(aka THE WOMAN ON PIER 13)

 

AUGUST 23

* BILLY BUDD

 

AUGUST 24

* THE PROFESSIONALS

* GOD'S LITTLE ACRE

 

AUGUST 25

* THE ICEMAN COMETH

 

AUGUST 26

* HOUSE OF BAMBOO

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Oh my goodness, how did I miss this???? I didn't even check my Film Forum calendar closely...there are so many I would love to see on the big screen. I really want to see *On Dangerous Ground* though I think I have seen it in a theater...and it's being shown again later in the year as part of a Bernard Herrmann tribute so I may wait on that one. I've seen *The Wild Bunch* in the theater, too...that you have to see on the big screen to really appreciate it. *The Naked Spur*, *Bad Day at Black Rock*, *The Set-Up* and *Clash by Night* are the ones I'm most interested in.

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> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}"The Naked Spur" with that glorious scenery on the big screen would be a treat. I'd go to "Bad Day" also. I hope you can go for me.

Since those two are on a weekend, I will do my very best, sir. I'm sure they'll be super on the big screen. Besides, I need to see some real men like Lee Marvin and Robert Ryan and Jimmy Stewart!

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Aug 7, 2011 9:53 PM

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To me Robert Ryan is one of the all-time great actors, both on and off the screen. For anyone who might be interested, Franklin Jarlett wrote a first rate critical biography of him that was published by McFarland in 1997. The title is Robert Ryan: A Biography and Critical Filmography, and it's as solid as its subject.

 

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To me Robert Ryan is one of the all-time great actors, both on and off the screen. For anyone who might be interested, Franklin Jarlett wrote a first rate critical biography of him that was published by McFarland in 1997. The title is Robert Ryan: A Biography and Critical Filmography, and it's as solid as its subject.

 

EDIT: Sorry about the double post, but the site froze on me and I didn't think that the first one got through.

 

Edited by: AndyM108 on Aug 9, 2011 10:47 AM

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Hi Andy, I've had my eye on that biography for some time. I keep hoping it will drop in price at the online retailers, as it's a bit pricey for me. I'm sure it's a good read on an actor who seems such a contradiction to most of his roles.

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Bad news, Miss Goddess. That Ryan bio is published by McFarland, which is virtually a print-on-demand outfit that almost never remainders anything. I used to own a used book shop in the DC area and would get new books sold to me by reviewers many times a year, and in 23 years I doubt if more than half a dozen McFarland titles showed up, either as review copies or as part of private collections. I now buy on Amazon and Abebooks and I'm extremely price conscious, but in the case of the Ryan book I knew it'd never show up for much less than 90% of the list price, and so I broke down and paid $31.50 and at least got free shipping. Those folks at McFarland know what they're doing, but I have to say that even at that price the Ryan book was well worth it. And of course a supreme consolation is that his movies show up so often on TCM that assembling a sizable collection of them is both easy and cheap.

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