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All About AVA


MissGoddess

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I think it's a wonderful blend of male and female desire.

 

How do you mean?

 

Can what man and woman want be the same thing but for different reasons?

 

pandoraandtheflyingdutchman7.jpg

 

I think it's man's desire to have a naked woman come to their boat. It's not just a sexual feeling that makes this desirable to man, but also the feeling of being needed and important and the feeling to keep and protect what is yours.

 

I think it's woman's desire for man to accept and love her for who she is. She wants to feel comfortable being naked in front of her man. She wants to know he will take care of her, do what's best for her.

 

Yes, I liked Pandora. I thought it was a nice representation of woman.

 

Gosh! She is? How so? I would rather say she's somewhat idealized.

 

Pandora challenges the men in her life but it's she who is looking to be challenged. The guys who fling themselves at Pandora's feet bore her, but the man who doesn't interests her. Pandora likes to push buttons to see how the guys will react to her. I think this is very feminine. I find so much of woman in Pandora.

 

I really don't care about the looks of Pandora, it's what she's up to that interests me.

 

She's very honest, too.

 

Uhhhhhh... not always. She's playing some games.

 

You're too busy pushing men over cliffs! Try being sweet for a change.

 

Please don't be personal about this.

 

You really shouldn't shove guys over cliffs, Pandora. :P

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>

> Can what man and woman want be the same thing but for different reasons?

>

 

Oh my, yes...that's a big chunk of the whole history of the world for the last 10,000 years. :D

 

>

> I think it's man's desire to have a naked woman come to their boat. It's not just a sexual feeling that makes this desirable to man, but also the feeling of being needed and important and the feeling to keep and protect what is yours.

>

> I think it's woman's desire for man to accept and love her for who she is. She wants to feel comfortable being naked in front of her man. She wants to know he will take care of her, do what's best for her.

>

 

That was really deep! Are you sure it's really you, FrankGrimes? :P I loved what you wrote,

and I never would have thought of it that way.

 

>

> Pandora challenges the men in her life but it's she who is looking to be challenged. The guys who fling themselves at Pandora's feet bore her, but the man who doesn't interests her. Pandora likes to push buttons to see how the guys will react to her. I think this is very feminine. I find so much of woman in Pandora.

>

 

That's all very true, very true. She is the one looking for someone who can inspire a really soul stirring love. She wants to feel love, full throttle. A race care going flat out is a good analogy to her because it's like she, too, is pushing herself to the limit to find what she's searching for: the prize being love like she's dreamed of.

 

>

> Uhhhhhh... not always. She's playing some games.

>

 

Like when?

 

>

> You really shouldn't shove guys over cliffs, Pandora. :P

 

I never! But you should take a drive up that way...soon.

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That was really deep! Are you sure it's really you, FrankGrimes?

 

No! I'm Guy Incognito.

 

I loved what you wrote, and I never would have thought of it that way.

 

:P Thank you.

 

Pandora's disrobing and swimming to Hendrik's boat at the beginning and end of the film are the two most powerful moments in the film, for me. Isn't that how love works? We have to remove our fears, dive into the water, climb aboard someone's boat and say, "here I am."

 

That's all very true, very true. She is the one looking for someone who can inspire a really soul stirring love. She wants to feel love, full throttle. A race care going flat out is a good analogy to her because it's like she, too, is pushing herself to the limit to find what she's searching for: the prize being love like she's dreamed of.

 

Hey, that's very good. I didn't even think of the race car as being akin to Pandora's love. You've got the setting of a record for speed and then you've got eternity. What's more important? The race car and bullfights are also representative of love's danger.

 

Uhhhhhh... not always. She's playing some games.

 

Like when?

 

One of my favorite Pandora moments is when she destroys Hendrik's painting of her. This is a game Pandora (woman) is playing. How will Hendrik (man) react to her destroying something he has labored over? Lots of tests.

 

I never! But you should take a drive up that way...soon.

 

So you can push me off the cliff!

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> That was really deep! Are you sure it's really you, FrankGrimes?

>

> No! I'm Guy Incognito.

>

 

Hi, Guy!

 

>

> Pandora's disrobing and swimming to Hendrik's boat at the beginning and end of the film are the two most powerful moments in the film, for me. Isn't that how love works? We have to remove our fears, dive into the water, climb aboard someone's boat and say, "here I am."

>

 

Yes, she sure had no problem with it, either, lol. I'm afraid I'd be a little more hesitant.

 

>

> Hey, that's very good. I didn't even think of the race car as being akin to Pandora's love. You've got the setting of a record for speed and then you've got eternity. What's more important? The race car and bullfights are also representative of love's danger.

>

 

That's true! So why do you think she lost interest in the racer and the bullfighter? Well, I understand the bullfighter, he was a bore and who wants a mother-in-law like that one!?

 

>

> One of my favorite Pandora moments is when she destroys Hendrik's painting of her. This is a game Pandora (woman) is playing. How will Hendrik (man) react to her destroying something he has labored over? Lots of tests.

>

 

Oh, okay. I guess that is game playing, you're right. We ladies do like to do that sometimes. :) But I think men want to respond, too. They like to show off.

 

>

> So you can push me off the cliff!

 

Never! :P

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Yes, she sure had no problem with it, either, lol. I'm afraid I'd be a little more hesitant.

 

I think most of us are much more hesitant. Although, I do think women tend to be more adventurous and curious when it comes to life and love.

 

So why do you think she lost interest in the racer and the bullfighter? Well, I understand the bullfighter, he was a bore and who wants a mother-in-law like that one!?

 

:D I think it's because Stephen (Nigel Patrick) and Juan (Mario Cabr?) are placing themselves above her. They say they are doing what they do for Pandora, but it's still all about them and their ego. Hendrik is painting HER. He's placing her first. Pandora (woman) tells us she wants to come first in her man's life. Her man must be willing to sacrifice all other things for her.

 

Stephen is the pleaser, Juan is the demander, and Reggie (Marius Goring) is a pleader. Hendrik really doesn't push himself on Pandora. He just presents himself. He's not going to jump through hoops for Pandora. But when given the opportunity, he will give her the kind of love and attention she seeks and desires. Again, this is very woman to me. There are men in this world who can provide many different things for a woman, but it's the kind of love and attention a man can give a woman that will mostly resonate with her. It's about bringing one to life.

 

Oh, okay. I guess that is game playing, you're right. We ladies do like to do that sometimes.

 

Sometimes? :P Little girls love to tell boys to do "this and that" for them. Y'all never grow out of that. :)

 

But I think men want to respond, too. They like to show off.

 

Yes. Man loves it when woman wants and need him... so long as they're not nagging. :D

 

So you can push me off the cliff!

 

Never!

 

Why don't I trust you?

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SPOILERS!!

 

>

> I think most of us are much more hesitant. Although, I do think women tend to be more adventurous and curious when it comes to life and love.

>

 

Ava really is ideal casting for this character. I honestly can't see any other actress. It's not about the beauty so much as, as you put it, the spirit of an adventuress. She has that quality. She acts like a woman who would (and did) dare almost anything.

 

>

> :D I think it's because Stephen (Nigel Patrick) and Juan (Mario Cabr?) are placing themselves above her. They say they are doing what they do for Pandora, but it's still all about them and their ego. Hendrik is painting HER. He's placing her first. Pandora (woman) tells us she wants to come first in her man's life. Her man must be willing to sacrifice all other things for her.

>

 

That's an interesting perspective. They are kind of like the South American millionaire in The Barefoot Contessa. They just want to possess her, or at least appear to, because she's such a prize. Both men are prize chasers, aren't they? And they act very competitive toward each other.

 

Let me ask this, what do you think was the purpose of having Juan (attempt to) kill Hendrik? To merely show Hendrik's supernatural quality? I felt that episode, though FANTASTICALLY photographed---it's one of the best staged and shot scenes EVER---didn't feel right some how. I know Juan was nuts but it seemed extreme for him to cold bloodedly set out to murder a man, literally by stabbing him in the back. It seemed so cowardly, too, and I thought he was at least a genuinely brave man, if annoying.

 

> Stephen is the pleaser, Juan is the demander, and Reggie (Marius Goring) is a pleader. Hendrik really doesn't push himself on Pandora. He just presents himself. He's not going to jump through hoops for Pandora. But when given the opportunity, he will give her the kind of love and attention she seeks and desires. Again, this is very woman to me. There are men in this world who can provide many different things for a woman, but it's the kind of love and attention a man can give a woman that will mostly resonate with her. It's about bringing one to life.

>

 

I like your descriptions: "demander", "pleaser" and "pleader". That's great!

 

It's true, Hendrik is the first that Pandora must go to, he doesn't come to her.

 

>

> Sometimes? :P Little girls love to tell boys to do "this and that" for them. Y'all never grow out of that. :)

>

 

Well, I guess, but I never experienced that as a child (no brothers or sisters around).

 

>

> Never![/b]

>

> Why don't I trust you?

 

I don't know! I didn't lie to you about going to the police!

 

I wish the DVD had subtitles. :(

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PANDORA AND THE SPOILING DUTCHMAN

 

Ava really is ideal casting for this character. I honestly can't see any other actress. It's not about the beauty so much as, as you put it, the spirit of an adventuress. She has that quality. She acts like a woman who would (and did) dare almost anything.

 

Now that's excellent. That is what I felt with Ava. You have captured it. Ava really is an adventuress and that is a great part of her beauty, with me. It wasn't her looks that captivated me in the film, it was her behavior. But it's easy for me to dismiss her looks when she is so very beautiful.

 

That's an interesting perspective. They are kind of like the South American millionaire in The Barefoot Contessa. They just want to possess her, or at least appear to, because she's such a prize. Both men are prize chasers, aren't they? And they act very competitive toward each other.

 

That's a very good comparison and you are right about them being "prize chasers." Pandora and the Flying Dutchman did remind me of The Barefoot Contessa. Ava plays a restless woman who is seeking peace in love in both films. A mythical woman, even. The ending to Pandora and the Flying Dutchman reminded me a lot of The Ghost and Mrs. Muir.

 

Let me ask this, what do you think was the purpose of having Juan (attempt to) kill Hendrik? To merely show Hendrik's supernatural quality? I felt that episode, though FANTASTICALLY photographed---it's one of the best staged and shot scenes EVER---didn't feel right some how. I know Juan was nuts but it seemed extreme for him to cold bloodedly set out to murder a man, literally by stabbing him in the back. It seemed so cowardly, too, and I thought he was at least a genuinely brave man, if annoying.

 

pandoraandtheflyingdutchman8.jpg

 

pandoraandtheflyingdutchman9.png

 

I like that Pandora calls him "Juanito," for Juan is a boy. He's very childish. If he can't get what he wants, he throws a "tantrum." He's used to everyone catering to him.

 

I thought the killing of Hendrik was important because even if Juan did kill him, he cannot kill Pandora's love for Hendrik. Hendrik is alive within Pandora's heart.

 

It's true, Hendrik is the first that Pandora must go to, he doesn't come to her.

 

And when he comes to her, he doesn't throw himself at her. He has great respect for Pandora, which includes his trust.

 

Well, I guess, but I never experienced that as a child (no brothers or sisters around).

 

I'm not talking siblings, Silly Goose. The playground!

 

I don't know! I didn't lie to you about going to the police!

 

But you like doing me harm!

 

I love shots like these:

 

pandoraandtheflyingdutchman1.jpg

 

pandoraandtheflyingdutchman3.jpg

 

Even though Pandora is with other men, her man isn't far from her.

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>

> That's a very good comparison and you are right about them being "prize chasers." Pandora and the Flying Dutchman did remind me of The Barefoot Contessa. Ava plays a restless woman who is seeking peace in love in both films. A mythical woman, even. The ending to Pandora and the Flying Dutchman reminded me a lot of The Ghost and Mrs. Muir.

>

 

That's true...both mortal women walk off with not so mortal men. Just goes to show what lengths we have to go to, to find a good man. :P

 

>

> I like that Pandora calls him "Juanito," for Juan is a boy. He's very childish. If he can't get what he wants, he throws a "tantrum." He's used to everyone catering to him.

>

 

But his killing didn't seem like a tantrum so much as cold blooded plotting. I can see him flaring up and stabbing Hendrik but this surprised me. Still, it yielded a terrific scene.

 

> I thought the killing of Hendrik was important because even if Juan did kill him, he cannot kill Pandora's love for Hendrik. Hendrik is alive within Pandora's heart.

>

 

Oh, I like that.

 

>

> And when he comes to her, he doesn't throw himself at her. He has great respect for Pandora, which includes his trust.

>

 

He's beyond all the petulances that drive Pandora's other lovers, all that is "spent" within him. He reaped the cost of a moment of anger and now all such weaknesses are behind him. I think this calmness within him attracts her.

 

>

> I'm not talking siblings, Silly Goose. The playground!

>

 

I played with other girls and our dollies! Boys in Texas played too rough. :P

 

>

> I love shots like these:

>

>

> Even though Pandora is with other men, her man isn't far from her.

 

Yes, they look like paintings, too. They remind me of Renoir or Diego Rivera.

 

Pandora121.jpg

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PANDORA AND THE SPOILING DUTCHMAN

 

That's true...both mortal women walk off with not so mortal men. Just goes to show what lengths we have to go to, to find a good man.

 

So I guess you'll end up on the Araner with Pappy. Is it docked outside your window?

 

But his killing didn't seem like a tantrum so much as cold blooded plotting. I can see him flaring up and stabbing Hendrik but this surprised me. Still, it yielded a terrific scene.

 

That's a good point. His murder wasn't one of passion but one of plotting. But, as Geoffrey said, he has a "violent soul."

 

He's beyond all the petulances that drive Pandora's other lovers, all that is "spent" within him. He reaped the cost of a moment of anger and now all such weaknesses are behind him. I think this calmness within him attracts her.

 

Very nicely said. His want of her is much different than the want of the other men.

 

I played with other girls and our dollies! Boys in Texas played too rough.

 

I thought you liked Dixon Steele!

 

Yes, they look like paintings, too. They remind me of Renoir or Diego Rivera.

 

Look who you're talking to!

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>

> So I guess you'll end up on the Araner with Pappy. Is it docked outside your window?

>

 

Ha, I'd last about two minutes before getting thrown overboard. I think I'll stay with someone on dry land, at least it's safer.

 

>

> Very nicely said. His want of her is much different than the want of the other men.

>

 

Do you think the reason Pandora looks like his wife is to show she is the one? Does this mean he never loved anyone like that in all those hundreds of years?

 

>

> I thought you liked Dixon Steele!

>

 

He's a grown man!

 

>

> Look who you're talking to!

 

They were very colorful, and sometimes crowded lots of colorful detail into their compositions. That's what prompted my comparison. Pandora's beautiful white mantilla reminded me of Rivera.

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Ha, I'd last about two minutes before getting thrown overboard.

 

Yeah, Pappy would make a snippy girl walk the plank.

 

I think I'll stay with someone on dry land, at least it's safer.

 

That's what you think!

 

Do you think the reason Pandora looks like his wife is to show she is the one? Does this mean he never loved anyone like that in all those hundreds of years?

 

I think she is his wife. I believe the film is about love being eternal. Hendrik wronged his wife and he never wishes to wrong her again. He's to be miserable until she forgives him. You women are awful. :P

 

I thought you liked Dixon Steele!

 

He's a grown man!

 

But all those Texan boys were little Dixon Steeles!

 

They were very colorful, and sometimes crowded lots of colorful detail into their compositions. That's what prompted my comparison. Pandora's beautiful white mantilla reminded me of Rivera.

 

What the hey is a mantilla?

 

pandoraandtheflyingdutchman2.jpg

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>

> Yeah, Pappy would make a snippy girl walk the plank.

>

 

:D

 

>

> I think she is his wife. I believe the film is about love being eternal. Hendrik wronged his wife and he never wishes to wrong her again. He's to be miserable until she forgives him. You women are awful. :P

>

 

What!? Literally his wife??? Are you saying it's reincarnation? I don't understand.

 

>

> But all those Texan boys were little Dixon Steeles!

>

 

That had me rolling! Oh my gosh, if only. Not one of them I knew had even 10% of Dix's brains. He'd strangle you for calling him a Texan! :P

 

>

> What the hey is a mantilla?

>

 

The white lace headdress:

 

Pandora76.jpg

 

 

> pandoraandtheflyingdutchman2.jpg

 

I love that shot, I love ALL the scenes on the beach. They are incredibly sensual.

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What!? Literally his wife??? Are you saying it's reincarnation? I don't understand.

 

I guess you could say it's reincarnation. I take the film as one of fantasy. I believe Hendrik and Pandora's love is eternal. That's why they are unafraid to die for each other. That's the commitment.

 

But all those Texan boys were little Dixon Steeles!

 

That had me rolling! Oh my gosh, if only. Not one of them I knew had even 10% of Dix's brains. He'd strangle you for calling him a Texan!

 

You're such a snob! Those poor Texan boys never had a chance. For which they are thankful. :P

 

I love that shot, I love ALL the scenes on the beach. They are incredibly sensual.

 

You just like the boozin' on the beach, Champoozy. :P

 

I just loved the boat that was just offshore. It's within reach.

 

I really liked Harold Warrender, who played "Geoffrey." He was sensational. He was basically playing a role similar to Bogie's in The Barefoot Contessa. He was the "father" of the film.

 

And I'm now curious to see James Mason in Age of Consent. I'm wondering if he plays a similar kind of man.

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>

> I guess you could say it's reincarnation. I take the film as one of fantasy. I believe Hendrik and Pandora's love is eternal. That's why they are unafraid to die for each other. That's the commitment.

>

 

Very intriguing...so, was pandora aware of this on some level? She doesn't seem to "recognize" Hendrik, though she does respond immediately to his strangeness. She seems to understand him without know why or how. They don't share many words between them.

 

>

> You're such a snob! Those poor Texan boys never had a chance. For which they are thankful. :P

>

 

We're both grateful.

 

>

> You just like the boozin' on the beach, Champoozy. :P

>

 

I do not!

 

> I just loved the boat that was just offshore. It's within reach.

>

 

Yes, it's also waiting, like Hendrik.

 

> I really liked Harold Warrender, who played "Geoffrey." He was sensational. He was basically playing a role similar to Bogie's in The Barefoot Contessa. He was the "father" of the film.

>

 

He grounds the movie; if he is a witness to what is happening, is it a fantasy?

 

> And I'm now curious to see James Mason in Age of Consent. I'm wondering if he plays a similar kind of man.

 

I've never seen it. Are you saying Mason plays a character like Geoffrey or like Hendrik?

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Very intriguing...so, was pandora aware of this on some level? She doesn't seem to "recognize" Hendrik, though she does respond immediately to his strangeness. She seems to understand him without know why or how. They don't share many words between them.

 

She wasn't aware of who Hendrik was, but she could hear and feel his call. Hendrik could only hope she did. He's at her mercy. As I said earlier, the film does paint a lovely picture of man and woman.

 

He grounds the movie; if he is a witness to what is happening, is it a fantasy?

 

I view him as our storyteller. I guess you could even call him an apostle.

 

I've never seen it. Are you saying Mason plays a character like Geoffrey or like Hendrik?

 

Like Hendrik. He's also a painter in that film.

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PANDORA'S SPOILERS

 

>

> She wasn't aware of who Hendrik was, but she could hear and feel his call. Hendrik could only hope she did. He's at her mercy. As I said earlier, the film does paint a lovely picture of man and woman.

>

 

Well, that is a fitting description of their relationship, I must say. I never thought about it, but it explains why his wife's picture looks just like Pandora.

 

>

> I view him as our storyteller. I guess you could even call him an apostle.

>

 

It's rather depressing, though, that these two had to die. I don't like that the movie seems to equate love with death, or saying that love can only be released upon death. Isn't that morbid?

 

>

> Like Hendrik. He's also a painter in that film.

 

Really? How interesting! Is it coming on TCM soon?

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PANDORA AND THE SPOILING DUTCHMAN

 

It's rather depressing, though, that these two had to die. I don't like that the movie seems to equate love with death, or saying that love can only be released upon death. Isn't that morbid?

 

I don't view the film like that. What I think the film is about is how we long for love so very much, that we feel like dying or killing for it. Reggie (Marius Goring) kills himself because he cannot have his love. Juan (Mario Cabr?) kills another because he cannot have his love. Stephen (Nigel Patrick) risks his life to prove his worth for his love.

 

Hendrik initially kills because of his love then he comes to understand he must be willing to die for his love for it to be true.

 

Eternal love isn't morbid, it's beautiful. Hendrik and Pandora may die, but their love lives.

 

Really? How interesting! Is it coming on TCM soon?

 

No, I'm afraid not. There's some nudity in it, so it would have to be shown late. It's a Michael Powell film.

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>

> I don't view the film like that. What I think the film is about is how we long for love so very much, that we feel like dying or killing for it. Reggie (Marius Goring) kills himself because he cannot have his love. Juan (Mario Cabr?) kills another because he cannot have his love. Stephen (Nigel Patrick) risks his life to prove his worth for his love.

>

> Hendrik initially kills because of his love then he comes to understand he must be willing to die for his love for it to be true.

>

 

But why not live and enjoy it! Love is life! It's renewing. This is so tragic.

 

> Eternal love isn't morbid, it's beautiful. Hendrik and Pandora may die, but their love lives.

>

 

Well, I'd rather be alive to enjoy my love..eternally. But I see that's what the movie is about. It's a fairy tale. It's The Ghost and Mrs Muir. It really is.

 

>

> No, I'm afraid not. There's some nudity in it, so it would have to be shown late. It's a Michael Powell film.

 

Oh, no. "Age of Consent"---don't tell me he plays a D.O.M.!

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But why not live and enjoy it! Love is life! It's renewing. This is so tragic.

 

Eternal love isn't tragic! It's beautiful, it's powerful. No matter what happens, the love will last.

 

Well, I'd rather be alive to enjoy my love..eternally. But I see that's what the movie is about. It's a fairy tale. It's The Ghost and Mrs Muir. It really is.

 

That's how I view the film. I think the endings to both films are very similar. And they do find their loves. Don't you think that's beautiful? Geez, I feel like Sweet T talking to me. I need her long black gloves! :D

 

Oh, no. "Age of Consent"---don't tell me he plays a D.O.M.!

 

Yes! Yes!

 

Edited by: FrankGrimes on Nov 18, 2009 9:22 PM

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PANDORA AND THE SPOILER

 

>

> Eternal love isn't tragic! It's beautiful, it's powerful. No matter what happens, the love will last.

>

 

"Love is as strong as death." Yes, I believe in that and I believe it's beautiful.

 

>

> That's how I view the film. I think the endings to both films are very similar. And they do find their loves. Don't you think that's beautiful? Geez, I feel like Sweet T talking to me. I need her long black gloves! :D

>

 

hahahahaha!

 

It is a haunting story and I like that Hendrik and Pandora find each other, it's just I want to see them sailing off together, not washing up like seaweed. :)

 

 

> Oh, no. "Age of Consent"---don't tell me he plays a D.O.M.!

>

> Yes! Yes!

>

 

Eeew! I don't think I'll watch it. :P

 

You have to see Mason in The Reckless Moment. He is sublime there.

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You have to see Mason in The Reckless Moment. He is sublime there.

 

I'd rather see him as a dirty old man. :P

 

It is a haunting story and I like that Hendrik and Pandora find each other, it's just I want to see them sailing off together, not washing up like seaweed.

 

But they're together! The key is to not get stuck with someone like me.

 

pandoraandtheflyingdutchman10.png

 

pandoraandtheflyingdutchman12.png

 

Do you remember which film we recently discussed on the board used part of this:

 

pandoraandtheflyingdutchman11.png

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> You have to see Mason in The Reckless Moment. He is sublime there.

>

> I'd rather see him as a dirty old man. :P

>

 

You always like to see yourself in movies.

 

>

> But they're together! The key is to not get stuck with someone like me.

>

 

Horrible!

 

> Do you remember which film we recently discussed on the board used part of this:

>

 

Hmmmm...was it a Gene Tierney movie?

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>

> That's right! Why do you think Cape Fear is my favorite?

>

 

Because you like to scramble eggs on your chest.

 

> Hmmmm...was it a Gene Tierney movie?

>

> Yes. Very good.

 

The Shanghai Gesture? By the way, what IS the "Shanghai gesture"?

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Because you like to scramble eggs on your chest.

 

Not my chest...

 

The Shanghai Gesture?

 

Yes! That's correct. Ohhhh, Doctor Omar.

 

By the way, what IS the "Shanghai gesture"?

 

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing it's on the vulgar side. :)

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