Jump to content
 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

All About AVA


MissGoddess

Recommended Posts

I just realized...no *Snows of Kilimanjaro* or *The Sun Also Rises* in this month's tribute....NOT the best of Hemingway-to-the-screen maybe...but Ava WAS the Hemingway woman all the way down to her toes. And never more touching than as the lovely, sweet Cynthia or the lost Lady Brett. And it's Peck and Tyrone Power she's longing for which doesn't hurt....

 

Tyrone Power, director Henry King and Ava on the set of *The Sun Also Rises*

sunalsorises.jpg

 

And who cares about the slipshod accents...Ava understood the women she played and played them just right.

 

As the quintessential Hemingway female, it's too bad that only *The Killers* was shown

as this film does not capture Ava's grasp of that kind of literary heroine...and it's such

a critical aspect of her filmography. You can't really appreciate her as an actress as fully

unless you include her work in the Hemingway films...which also tie her to Spain, by the way.

 

Papa, Mary and Ava

papamaryava.jpg

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Nov 13, 2010 12:30 AM

Link to post
Share on other sites

Of all the lovely Ava's being shown tonite, the ones I look forward to seeing most will be these:

 

10:00 PM On the Beach (1959)

After a nuclear war, U.S. sailors stationed in Australia deal with the end of civilization. Cast: Gregory Peck, Ava Gardner, Fred Astaire. Dir: Stanley Kramer. BW-134 mins, TV-PG, CC, Letterbox Format

 

5:00 AM Hucksters, The (1947)

A war veteran fights for honesty in the advertising game. Cast: Clark Gable, Deborah Kerr, Ava Gardner. Dir: Jack Conway. BW-116 mins, TV-PG, CC (Keenan Wynn's great in this).

 

19 Friday

7:00 AM She Went To The Races (1945)

A pretty scientist with a system for horse-race betting falls in love with a trainer. Cast: James Craig, Frances Gifford, Ava Gardner. Dir: Willis Goldbeck. BW-86 mins, TV-G

 

In two of the films, she'll star with two actors whom she'll work with again. She's never girlish... she's always a Woman for a grown-up man to work opposite...maybe slightly reducing him to a schoolboy. But I always thought she was a great partner for a Man. Really want to see how Frances Gifford stacks up opposite Ava. Gifford managed to pull my attention away from Lana last month. Will early Ava be a force to be reckoned with in this little comedy? I wonder...I'll find out soon enough.

 

I hadn't finished it yet (and thanxx to my cine-fairy godfathers I can watch it at my leisure on DVD) but I have been getting to "Pandora and the Flying Dutchman" slowly. Prolonging the experience, I guess. Aaaah, there she is: Ava as Circe asking men to prove their love for her with devastating results (which were probably worth it...ok, ohhhkkkkkkay, maybe they weren't). I enjoyed her in "Bhowani Junction" believing her struggle to find where she fits in in the world. I've never seen her look more beautiful in both those movies and...

 

Who am I kidding...I can't fool you all out there...I can't write intelligently/intellectually about Ava b'cuz she's such a visceral force. But suffice to say, her beauty is just one of her assets and might have even gotten in the way of people appreciating her talent. She was fierce, she was vulnerable, she didn't take her self seriously...she was AVA.

 

TCM, all I can humbly say is thank you for making Ava the star of the month. I am just one of her many, very happy fans. :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> Of all the lovely Ava's being shown tonite, the ones I look forward to seeing most will be these:

>

> 10:00 PM On the Beach (1959)

> After a nuclear war, U.S. sailors stationed in Australia deal with the end of civilization. Cast: Gregory Peck, Ava Gardner, Fred Astaire. Dir: Stanley Kramer. BW-134 mins, TV-PG, CC, Letterbox Format

>

 

Ava's character reminds me a little of Roslyn (Marilyn) in *the misfits*. she's lost as to how to deal with this impending tragedy. she desperately needs love to cling to, and in Greg she sees hope of that. But he loved his family, dearly, and he's duty bound to his job/mission as well. so...as she says, "I feel left out....I can sing and dance." everyone has "important" ways of dealing with the situation, but Ava is "just" about being herself, a woman who needs to be loved.

 

 

> 5:00 AM Hucksters, The (1947)

> A war veteran fights for honesty in the advertising game. Cast: Clark Gable, Deborah Kerr, Ava Gardner. Dir: Jack Conway. BW-116 mins, TV-PG, CC (Keenan Wynn's great in this).

>

 

HUCKSTERING SPOILER

 

i find it delightful that in both his films with Ava, Clark finds himself dancing to a phony tune for a woman, a "lady". Ava seems to represent the other kind of woman in his life, the honest, earthier kind. it's just a glimmer, but the "Honey Bear" to come is there inside "Jean Oglive". Am I wrong or was this first time Ava played the character she would come to do over and over again...the woman rejected by the man she loved? (I shouldn't say "rejected" but rather she is denied the happy ending with her loves).

 

>

> I hadn't finished it yet (and thanxx to my cine-fairy godfathers I can watch it at my leisure on DVD) but I have been getting to "Pandora and the Flying Dutchman" slowly. Prolonging the experience, I guess. Aaaah, there she is: Ava as Circe asking men to prove their love for her with devastating results (which were probably worth it...ok, ohhhkkkkkkay, maybe they weren't). I enjoyed her in "Bhowani Junction" believing her struggle to find where she fits in in the world. I've never seen her look more beautiful in both those movies and...

>

 

Pandora is a movie to drown yourself in.

 

I feel **** is a wonderful challenge for Ava and I think she acquits herself believably. the only problem is that i feel like she's really most torn over finding her place in terms of a woman, not as someone interested in the politics. she brings the epic struggle depicted in the film to a personal level, to how a woman feels being caught between two worlds. she can't help herself from loving the man who in many ways represent what she loathes, and she cannot force herself to love the man who treats her the best and who she admires.

 

> Who am I kidding...I can't fool you all out there...I can't write intelligently/intellectually about Ava b'cuz she's such a visceral force. But suffice to say, her beauty is just one of her assets and might have even gotten in the way of people appreciating her talent. She was fierce, she was vulnerable, she didn't take her self seriously...she was AVA.

>

 

she is someone alive, real and earthy, even if her beauty is staggeringly "goddess like". but it's not untouchable. her feet are always bare and in the dirt. and she's good at reminding her men they are no better.

 

i think she may have out-done Garbo as the queen of tragedy. Did any other actress die more onscreen or lose her lovers?

 

Yet no one ever mentions this in connection with her or her career. Not even her biographers, who seemed more about writing of the sordidness of her life, in a leering manner, than about what she ultimately brought to the screen.

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Nov 18, 2010 10:59 PM

Link to post
Share on other sites

did you ever notice that ava watching the car race in *on the beach* is rather similar to how she watched the men compete and destroy themselves in the bull ring in several earlier films, as well as the race on the beach (ha) in pandora and the flying dutchman? it's funny how many of her films make oblique references to her previous works, to repeating motifs or to places and incidents that she became associated with over the course of her career and private life. this only happens rather rarely among performers, mostly with those that conjur a specific type of person in the imagination of the public, and usually only among the really biggest stars. Another reason I think her career is of much more interest than as a mere 50s "sex symbol".

Link to post
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote}

> I think "On the Beach" is the saddest film I've ever seen.

 

Fred, i can see why. the last shot of ava, with "waltzing matilda" playing, is so heartbreaking. it reminded me of Garbo's famous shot on the departing ship in *Queen Christina*.

 

*on the beach* is heavy, heavy, heavy. this time i caught a lot of things i never noticed in previous viewings. it's interesting seeing how differently people go about facing the inevitable. it makes you think about how you would handle it.

 

Fred Astaire was terrific.

Link to post
Share on other sites

PUT THE BLAME ON MAME? NOT THIS TIME.

 

Good morning Mighty Aphrodite. You?ve laid out some wonderful buffet of thoughts re: Ava and her screen persona for her fans here on Ye Olde Message Board.

 

"i find it delightful that in both his films with Ava, Clark finds himself dancing to a phony tune for a woman, a ?lady?. Ava seems to represent the other kind of woman in his life, the honest, earthier kind. it's just a glimmer, but the ?Honey Bear? to come is there inside ?Jean Oglive?.?

 

Aaah yes. She has a light touch in "The Hucksters" and doesn't va-va-va-voom him with her sen-suality. She's sort of a good-time, even though we see she wants more.

 

What I marvel at, or forget, or wonder about is how she can dial it back. After all, the movie she did just before "The Hucksters" is "THE KILLERS." And she had 'It' exhuding from her pores.

 

Wanting what we can?t have. Actually, that?s wrong, I?m mis-stating that. It?s a sort of being blind to the thing that?s really for us. A lot of times Gable wanted ?the lady? when he was really better suited for the more down-to-earth gal, as you wrote, Miss G. He wanted something better for himself, better than himself. I also like seeing this movie because though they have no scenes together, I know that twenty-odd years later, she would work with Deborah Kerr again in "Night of the Iguana." Some how, I bet these gals were great pals on the set. Leave Richard & Elizabeth to the paparazzi in Mexico, while Ava and Deborah laughed and talked and drank and dished about the various leading men they shared like Gable or Lancaster or Sinatra (a mini-trivia brain teaser for you since you're such a good movie buff) Peck, Granger, Taylor and Niven. Mmmmm, would that I could, I'd give all my cine-fantasy kingdom for just one pairing between Ava and Mitchum. Yeah, maybe he could handle Jane Russell...but AVA? I love her easy-breezy entrance in "The Huck-

sters" when she greets Gable. When complimented by Menjou, she tells him she's wearing her hair differently. Now, that self-reference is something you talk about in your post, further down. In "The Killers" her hair was long and cascading. Here it's tight curls. I'm telling you, it's the hair that gets her in trouble.

 

"Now don't be like that. You know you're not going to pick up anything better between now and tonight."

 

I love when she says that. It's like she's got his number pegged already. She knows him.

 

"Am I wrong or was this first time Ava played the character she would come to do over and over again...the woman rejected by the man she loved? (I shouldn't say ?rejected? but rather she is denied the happy ending with her loves).?

 

I do believe you?re right, Miss G. I never noticed that. Why can?t she find happiness? I always had this thought...this hazy, unformed thought that it was a kind of punishment Movies meted out to its goddesses becuz of their beauty...("you think because you are beautiful you will have everything? Well, my pretty...you will have NOTHING!!!!!!") Perhaps some insecurity or anxiety on Man?s part /Moguls' part, or how vulnerable She makes Man feel that they wrote these tortured stories for our Ritas, Lanas...Avas, to over-compensate for some deep-seated anxiety. You know what I'm saying?? Aww man, I dunno what I'm saying. I'm no armchair psychiatrist. If I sound unclear it?s becuz I can?t put it into words. I?m hoping to get by with..."you know what I?m sayin??"

 

You know what I'm sayin'?

 

"I feel **** is a wonderful challenge for Ava and I think she acquits herself believably. the only problem is that i feel like she's really most torn over finding her place in terms of a woman, not as someone interested in the politics.?

 

Yes I agree. Politics? I didn?t think her character cared too much about that, other than the fact that she didn?t want to see her people treated unfairly...harshly. I think of Merle Oberon who was bi-racial, no? I think Ava did a good job in this. I guess I am guilty. I was impatient waiting to see her romanced, waiting for the clinches with handsome Stewart Granger. It was a long time into the picture before Granger warmed up. Yes, in "Bhowani Junction" Ava had a role to sink her teeth into; happiness, sadness, fear, uncertainty...she had a lot to show.

 

"she brings the epic struggle depicted in the film to a personal level, to how a woman feels being caught between two worlds. she can't help herself from loving the man who in many ways represent what she loathes, and she cannot force herself to love the man who treats her the best and who she admires.?

 

For me, it?s tough to swallow the whole elephant of an epic...Sometimes I need it broken down to the personal level. We want what we want, don?t we? G0 AVA!!! She?ll hold out for what she wants even if she has to go through hell. That marriage ceremony scene was torturous waiting for her to break outta there. When she ran out, I don't even think any of the men noticed. And check out this sick twisted development, why didn't that nice, noble guy in the office find a nice Indian girl to mar-ry. His mother put down Ava, and then wanted her son to marry Ava. Hmmm...somebody's not being honest here. (I'm glad Ava got away. The prospect of that freedom-fighting harridan as a mother-in- law is enough to make me shake in my boots!)

 

?she is someone alive, real and earthy, even if her beauty is staggeringly "goddess like". but it's not untouchable. her feet are always bare and in the dirt. and she's good at reminding her men they are no better.?

 

Excellent description, really. If you have any time or inclination, would you be able to tell me what you see as the difference between Ava and Rita? Why does Rita seems to be more in the con-sciousness of old movie buffs than Ava? I'm sure "Gilda" has something to do with it. I don't know if Ava is so hotly identified by one role. Or is there one definable Ava role?

 

"i think she may have out-done Garbo as the queen of tragedy. Did any other actress die more onscreen or lose her lovers??

 

Yikes! Paul Lukas just put a sheet over her head in "55 Days At Peking.? Yup, she?s a goner. How has this thought never crossed my mind with Ava. Again, you got something there, G.

 

"it's funny how many of her films make oblique references to her previous works, to repeating motifs or to places and incidents that she became associated with over the course of her career and private life. this only happens rather rarely among performers, mostly with those that conjur a specific type of person in the imagination of the public, and usually only among the really biggest stars."

 

Ava seems larger than life. I love the life imitates art imitates life imitates art aspect you bring up, one other thing I never thought of about her. What most amaaaaaaazes me, is how a little ol' gal from some hick town in North Cakalacky be sooooooooooo darned exotic?

 

I truly only think Angelina Jolie comes a close distant light years to the Ava mystique. Do you see Ava in anyone working in films today other than Diane Lane?

 

Edited by: CineMaven on Nov 19, 2010 5:27 AM...no no, just kidding. Wanted to see if you're paying attention.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i really enjoyed 'ava night' last night. i was not as familar with these films.

 

this is the first time that i've seen 'the naked maja' in widescreen-- it looked so much better. ava in color is so gorgeous. i love her with long hair. and i love the twist in the 'camille'-type ending... the way she hits the ground like that!

 

i watched maja, 'on the beach', and 'the angel wore red'.... all have the theme of ava bravely sacrificing her love for her man's greater good. there's that sweet vulnerability that ava is now famous for. i also enjoyed her different leading men in these films.

 

and of course there is that spanish backdrop in two of the films that has become so much a part of ava's persona.

 

 

robert osbourne mentioned that ava had left hollywood and worked exclusively in europe in the 'fifties. i hadn't thought about that before.

 

there is some truth to what cinemaven is saying about gardner not having a signature role. her european films don't have the 'high gloss' hollywood glamour that an actress like, say, kim novak was getting at the time in 'picnic', 'pal joey' or 'vertigo'.

 

i pulled out gardner's autobio as i watched these films.... she said that metro did not package her, did not buy film properties for her, constantly loaned her out. i believe that. there were many *beautiful* women at mgm in the late 'forties/ early 'fifties, but the mgm brass did not seem to know what to do with them. gardner, taylor, kerr, kelly.... all were doing better work when loaned out to other studios.

 

i would have liked to have seen a gardner film where all the concentration, the focus, is on her alone. single name above the title stuff. or at least legendary cinematic sequence like the clift-taylor love scenes from 'a place in the sun'.

 

ava has a potency that shines thru all her films, that us fans still see and are attracted to. yet it seems to me no director made a whole film around her exclusively. she is spread out thru a film, sharing the film with her co-stars. i sit thru many ava films just waiting for ava's scenes ('show boat', 'sun also rises', 'snows').... when she's off the screen, sheer boredom!

 

dietrich, garbo, (early) lamarr, hayworth....all got those wondrous, lingering, extreme STAR closeups where audiences could just drown in their beauty. 3-4 haunting closeup per film. i wanted more of that for ava....i want to be dazzled by her beauty, yet those moments in her films are so fleeting.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"I am SOOO doomed. Jeepers... SHE WENT TO THE RACES (1945). Frances Gifford AND Ava? Where's John Hodiak when I might need him? I'm not sure James Craig gets outta this one. And I certainly don't know why he'd want to..."

 

I watched it. It's an innocuous little comedy; predictable but cute. Frances Gifford's the scientist. They've got her duded up rather matronly...as any good scientist would be. But she's pretty and very charming.

 

And then there's Ava. She had a couple of "WOW!" outfits in this early film of hers. You can see the dimple in her chin and hear that husky, raspy voice, and she's doing light comedy. She has

a nice touch. They have her dressed up very very stylishly. And when Ava and Gifford square

off for some girltalk to bet over the affections of Gable-wannabe James Craig, I think they're very evenly matched. There's no dramatic stretch required for either of them in "She Went to the Races", but they're both pleasant enough. I still wonder why Frances Gifford wasn't a bigger star. But I can sort of see from here (1944) why Ava was.

 

Oooh, now to go from the dark to the light. Gloria DeHaven's a cute little package in "Two Girls and A Sailor." And so is boyishly handsome Van Johnson.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Breathtaking post Marco. I think you've really hit the nail on the head about Ava Gardner:

 

Her screen persona: ("all have the theme of ava bravely sacrificing her love for her man's greater good").

 

Her marketing: ("she said that metro did not package her, did not buy film properties for her, constantly loaned her out").

 

Her effect on fans: ("ava has a potency that shines thru all her films, that us fans still see and are attracted to...i sit thru many ava films just waiting for ava's scenes 'show boat', 'sun also rises', 'snows'....when she's off the screen, sheer boredom!")

 

But Marco, don't you think this was served in "Pandora and the Flying Dutchman"? She is the Pandora of the title and she's got some glorious moments with only James Mason in the way.

 

Moguls! HA! Whaddya gonna do about 'em? "i believe that. there were many beautiful women at mgm in the late 'forties/ early 'fifties, but the mgm brass did not seem to know what to do with them." They could run a monopoly though.

 

As one Ava fan to another, would you also weigh in on what you think is the difference between Ava and Rita? Please this is open to all of you Ava fans.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No matter how bad Rita acts, there is something inherently good about her. Sympathetic. No wait, girl next door. Yes. that's it. The girl next door who you can't have, but still want. Messed up, tangled. That's all.

 

Ava - she'll sink you and herself as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's nothing compared to your wonderful post on Ava earlier. I totally agree about how the powers that be were taking out a subtle revenge on those too beautiful women - and showing lesser looking women across the country that they were better off just being a housewife. :)

 

Ava's passions were larger than life, so strong that they end badly... At the very least, they were misdirected - toward money in *The Killers*, or many times toward death..... or the other unmentionable....

 

h5. sex

 

Beauty = Death? or maybe Love= Death? I can't put my finger on why this is her equation. But I do know why like her - she breaks away from those silly rules and regulations made for society or by men for women..... even if she has to pay the price ultimately for it. She wouldn't care if she had to die, just let her be free to sink those toes into the dirt....

 

Rita, I think was not fully in control of her beauty and her destiny, whereas I think Ava was supremely in control.

 

Just rambling on the very nice question posed. I love your questions. They really make you dig.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Rita, I think was not fully in control of her beauty and her destiny, whereas I think Ava was supremely in control.

 

I actually believe the opposite with Ava. I believe she mostly felt helpless in her pursuit of the man she loved. I've only seen twelve of her films, though. Still, in almost all of those films, I felt she was seemingly powerless against her emotions. She liked to appear strong and in control but it was all a disguise.

 

I see her as one of the most damaged and fragile of women on screen... which is why I adore Ava and feel she is one of the most underrated actresses of all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> Rita, I think was not fully in control of her beauty and her destiny, whereas I think Ava was supremely in control.

>

> I actually believe the opposite with Ava.

 

Of course you do! :D

 

> I believe she mostly felt helpless in her pursuit of the man she loved. I've only seen twelve of her films, though. Still, in almost all of those films, I felt she was seemingly powerless against her emotions.

 

Ah, but beauty, destiny and emotion are NOT the same thing.

 

I agree with you, I think she was powerless against her emotions.

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Nov 19, 2010 12:44 PM

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, but beauty, destiny and emotion are NOT the same thing.

 

But I think she's driven by her emotions and that drives her destiny. I'm not sure how beauty equates.

 

Are you saying she was comfortable with her beauty? I'd definitely agree with that. I always see Ava as being very relaxed and comfortable with who she is. She rarely looks "glammed up" on screen. She's not "overproduced." Rita seems more luxurious.

 

The difference I have found between the two is that Rita seems more girlish to me whereas Ava is all woman. Ava always feels like she's been "around the block." Rita sometimes comes off as if she's just blown into town. I also think Ava gets angry when she's sad but Rita just gets sad.

 

But, I've seen far less of Rita than Ava.

Link to post
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> Ah, but beauty, destiny and emotion are NOT the same thing.

>

> But I think she's driven by her emotions and that drives her destiny. I'm not sure how beauty equates.

>

> Are you saying she was comfortable with her beauty? I'd definitely agree with that. I always see Ava as being very relaxed and comfortable with who she is. She rarely looks "glammed up" on screen. She's not "overproduced." Rita seems more luxurious.

>

> The difference I have found between the two is that Rita seems more girlish to me whereas Ava is all woman. Ava always feels like she's been "around the block." Rita sometimes comes off as if she's just blown into town. I also think Ava gets angry when she's sad but Rita just gets sad.

>

> But, I've seen far less of Rita than Ava.

 

Now your talking! I agree with you .

 

and I like that - I hadn't noticed that Ava gets mad when she 's sad, but I like that you did. She doesn't want to be that way. She fights against it. She's a fighter.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"Rita seems more luxurious."

 

Hmmmm...luxurious. What a megaliciously delicious description.

 

You should have seen the greeting she gave James Craig this morning in her beautifully tailored riding habit. She sounded so...l dunno...like a real down home girl. But in her riding gear she truly looked to the manor born. The thought came to me (as I wrote earlier) that this girl from a little town in North Carolina, could become so European-like in her movies. (Though if I were to be totally truthful, her Spanish accent in "The Barefoot Contessa" was a little tough to take. But listen, I forgive her anything).

 

What films have you seen of Ava's and what films have you seen of Rita's?

 

Do you think Ava could have played the mighty "GILDA?" Could she be love-sick over Glenn Ford? Desperate? Tortured? Vulnerable? Masochistic??? Could you see her as Gilda?

 

WHEN GODDESSES COME TO EARTH

 

Ava and Rita are two, maybe the only two who made movies in the forties where they played goddesses who came down to Earth:

 

"Down to Earth" (1947)

"One Touch of Venus" (1948)

 

Not even the great Hedy Lamarr did that.

 

Edited by: CineMaven on Nov 19, 2010 1:14 PM

Link to post
Share on other sites

Now your talking! I agree with you.

 

I feel dirty like Ava's toes!

 

and I like that - I hadn't noticed that Ava gets mad when she 's sad, but I like that you did. She doesn't want to be that way. She fights against it. She's a fighter.

 

Many of Ava's characters are childish. She throws tantrums when she's hurting. And I love women who throw tantrums when they are emotionally hurting, hence my strong attraction to Ava.

 

Ava will often bury herself in men and booze when the one man she cares about upsets her. She's looking to wash the pain away, yet she's really downing herself in it. She's at the mercy of her emotions.

 

Rita has played similar characters to Ava, but she usually responds differently. Gilda does exactly as Ava would do, she tries to forget her man via other men. Gilda even shows anger in doing so. But, with Rita, I just feel the "softness" behind her hurt. You just feel her weeping. Ava hides her tears much better. As you say, she's much more of a fighter. She's "harder." That's why I love it when Ava tears up. To see her get to that point is very moving.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ciao, CinemAva -- You have an excellent way with words. It's not just your grasp, it's how you grab.

 

The thought came to me (as I wrote earlier) that this girl from a little town in North Carolina, could become so European-like in her movies. (Though if I were to be totally truthful, her Spanish accent in "The Barefoot Contessa" was a little tough to take. But listen, I forgive her anything).

 

Now that is exceptional and wonderfully astute of you. I think you've got it. Ava does feel European, at least Italian/Spanish. She's uninhibited and full of fire. She's an emotional volcano. She will definitely erupt on you. For an American woman, she seems very much at home in European settings, such as Spain. The "dance" scene in The Barefoot Contessa is a very good example of this. Okay, so she dances "Anglo." :D

 

What films have you seen of Ava's and what films have you seen of Rita's?

 

Ava (in order of my liking the film, of course :P ):

 

1. The Night of the Iguana

2. The Killers

3. Mogambo

4. Pandora and the Flying Dutchman

5. Seven Days in May

6. The Barefoot Contessa

7. Whistle Stop

8. East Side, West Side

9. The Snows of Kilimanjaro

10. Bhowani Junction

11. On the Beach

12. The Sun Also Rises

 

Rita:

 

1. Only Angels Have Wings

2. The Lady from Shanghai

3. Gilda

4. Separate Tables

5. They Came to Cordura

6. Blood and Sand

 

I'm looking forward to getting Rita's box set in December... hopefully.

 

Do you think Ava could have played the mighty "GILDA?" Could she be love-sick over Glenn Ford? Desperate? Tortured? Vulnerable? Masochistic??? Could you see her as Gilda?

 

Yes, I think so. But the feeling of hurt would be different with Ava. Ava also has more of an edge to her than Rita. Rita can play "innocent" whereas I don't think Ava can.

 

Rita can start out tough but she ends up like Grace Kelly, putting her head down, feeling sorry, even pouting. Ava doesn't get to this point. I rarely see Ava "put her head down."

 

By the way, I've really come to like Rita, too. The roles I have seen of hers tell me she's a very good actress with great depth. She's exceptional in They Came to Cordura and Separate Tables. Those are real good roles and performances by her.

 

Ava is #9 on my favorite actress list and Rita is #12. And it's not because of their looks. In terms of looks, I'm more attracted to Rita.

 

WHEN GODDESSES COME TO EARTH

 

Ava and Rita are two, maybe the only two who made movies in the forties where they played goddesses who came down to Earth:

 

Very good!

Link to post
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> PUT THE BLAME ON MAME? NOT THIS TIME.

>

> Good morning Mighty Aphrodite. You?ve laid out some wonderful buffet of thoughts re: Ava and her screen persona for her fans here on Ye Olde Message Board.

>

 

ooooh, that's too much but thank you Maven. I just love Ava and can babble on about her Babylon. :)

 

>

> Aaah yes. She has a light touch in "The Hucksters" and doesn't va-va-va-voom him with her sen-suality. She's sort of a good-time, even though we see she wants more.

>

 

this is part of what i respond to in Ava...and why I say she is one of the "warmest" actresses in her day. I don't mean "hot" like a screen goddess, which she was, but "warm" like the little grab town gal she was. she never really lost that entirely, and sometimes i think she should have stayed closer to her roots...it would have stablized her more. hollywood catered to her recklessness and i think had a bad influence on her...as it did so many. no consequences when the studio is always protecting their assets from any accountability for raucous partying, fights and public bad behavior. I think the grab town girl would have been a little shocked by that behavior. but what she never lost was wanted just to be loved for herself, what any woman wants. that's what she brings to the screen too, and hollywood can't teach that.

 

> Wanting what we can?t have. Actually, that?s wrong, I?m mis-stating that. It?s a sort of being blind to the thing that?s really for us. A lot of times Gable wanted ?the lady? when he was really better suited for the more down-to-earth gal, as you wrote, Miss G. He wanted something better for himself, better than himself. I also like seeing this movie because though they have no scenes together, I know that twenty-odd years later, she would work with Deborah Kerr again in "Night of the Iguana." Some how, I bet these gals were great pals on the set. Leave Richard & Elizabeth to the paparazzi in Mexico, while Ava and Deborah laughed and talked and drank and dished about the various leading men they shared like Gable or Lancaster or Sinatra

 

I believe it. I think Ava could get along with Deborah as she got along with Grace. I wonder about Elizabeth. At least Elizabeth was SMART enough to be there on set....just in case.... :D

 

 

 

> (a mini-trivia brain teaser for you since you're such a good movie buff) Peck, Granger, Taylor and Niven. Mmmmm, would that I could, I'd give all my cine-fantasy kingdom for just one pairing between Ava and Mitchum. Yeah, maybe he could handle Jane Russell...but AVA?

 

No need to give your kindgom away for that:

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043828/

 

It's actually not a great movie and not the best setting, either, for these two. A modern day story would have allowed them to act more natural, I think. In a way, Mitchum was as much of a hollywood misfit as Ava was.

 

 

> I love her easy-breezy entrance in "The Huck-sters" when she greets Gable. When complimented by Menjou, she tells him she's wearing her hair differently. Now, that self-reference is something you talk about in your post, further down. In "The Killers" her hair was long and cascading. Here it's tight curls. I'm telling you, it's the hair that gets her in trouble.

>

 

And next to her figure and eyes, I want her hair, too! All those gorgeous brunettes and their stunning hair. Ava, Joan B., Hedy, and Gene...and I wanted to DIE when they cut it short in the fifties...I love when Ava let her hair grow back, so that it was gorgeously tousled and in her face in the 60s...so sensual.

 

 

> "Now don't be like that. You know you're not going to pick up anything better between now and tonight."

>

> I love when she says that. It's like she's got his number pegged already. She knows him.

>

 

Oh yes, Ava is veeeery relaxed around Clark, and he is with her. They feel comfortable on screen together. I laugh when I think of what Ava said about him "He's a sweet guy but the type who's stuck for an answer when you tell him 'good morning'" ahahahahaaaa... dang she had a tongue like an adder but it makes me laugh! my poor clark...he didn't have to be a phi beta kappa to make me happy. :D

 

> I do believe you?re right, Miss G. I never noticed that. Why can?t she find happiness? I always had this thought...this hazy, unformed thought that it was a kind of punishment Movies meted out to its goddesses becuz of their beauty...("you think because you are beautiful you will have everything? Well, my pretty...you will have NOTHING!!!!!!") Perhaps some insecurity or anxiety on Man?s part /Moguls' part, or how vulnerable She makes Man feel that they wrote these tortured stories for our Ritas, Lanas...Avas, to over-compensate for some deep-seated anxiety. You know what I'm saying?? Aww man, I dunno what I'm saying. I'm no armchair psychiatrist. If I sound unclear it?s becuz I can?t put it into words. I?m hoping to get by with..."you know what I?m sayin??"

>

 

you said it well... i think Ava, vivien and Garbo were the great screen tragediennes. It's just that few people have yet to find this in Ava. they need to step back from her beauty status and look objectively at what her characters go through in the majority of her films.

 

 

> Yes I agree. Politics? I didn?t think her character cared too much about that, other than the fact that she didn?t want to see her people treated unfairly...harshly. I think of Merle Oberon who was bi-racial, no? I think Ava did a good job in this. I guess I am guilty. I was impatient waiting to see her romanced, waiting for the clinches with handsome Stewart Granger. It was a long time into the picture before Granger warmed up. Yes, in "Bhowani Junction" Ava had a role to sink her teeth into; happiness, sadness, fear, uncertainty...she had a lot to show.

>

 

Oberon would have been perfect, but like you say, she brings it all down to every day reality...to what a woman has to contend with in a split world like that. I was impatient for them to really get together, too. the movie was "butchered" by the studio according to Cukor, so maybe he had things play differently before they edited it. I don't know. it seems too long as it was. I was only interested in Ava's scenes.

 

> For me, it?s tough to swallow the whole elephant of an epic...Sometimes I need it broken down to the personal level. We want what we want, don?t we? G0 AVA!!! She?ll hold out for what she wants even if she has to go through hell. That marriage ceremony scene was torturous waiting for her to break outta there. When she ran out, I don't even think any of the men noticed. And check out this sick twisted development, why didn't that nice, noble guy in the office find a nice Indian girl to mar-ry. His mother put down Ava, and then wanted her son to marry Ava. Hmmm...somebody's not being honest here. (I'm glad Ava got away. The prospect of that freedom-fighting harridan as a mother-in- law is enough to make me shake in my boots!)

>

 

oooooh, that was sensational! I didn't even think about how they were using HER, especially the old woman. and she had just been raped by the Anglo soldier and here the old woman is hoping to parley this into something for their "cause". Oh wow. To give him credit, I do think the young man was sincerely in love with her. He was kind of mooning over her from afar and he did seem to stand up to his mother at one point.

 

> Excellent description, really. If you have any time or inclination, would you be able to tell me what you see as the difference between Ava and Rita? Why does Rita seems to be more in the con-sciousness of old movie buffs than Ava? I'm sure "Gilda" has something to do with it. I don't know if Ava is so hotly identified by one role. Or is there one definable Ava role?

>

 

Wow, the difference between Ava and Rita. Both show vulnerability and hurt really well. But I do think Ava had serious claws, she could hurt a man and take a good deal of pleasure as well as pain from it. I think Rita was for the most part, clawless. She could tease, as in Gilda, but it was all an act. Ava didn't act, she really did go off with men and even asked her true love (Jake, Sun also Rises) to babysit her conquests. Yikes!

 

Ava is more truly dangerous, a full grown woman. Rita always had a child like aspect. Rita does not remind me of Ava as much as Marilyn Monroe reminds me of Rita. Both had child like vulnerability that suggested they needed protection.

 

>

> Yikes! Paul Lukas just put a sheet over her head in "55 Days At Peking.? Yup, she?s a goner. How has this thought never crossed my mind with Ava. Again, you got something there, G.

>

 

She was hurt by men and hurt HERSELF more than just about any other actress on the talking side of Garbo. Vivien would have that status if she'd made more movies.

 

>

> Ava seems larger than life. I love the life imitates art imitates life imitates art aspect you bring up, one other thing I never thought of about her. What most amaaaaaaazes me, is how a little ol' gal from some hick town in North Cakalacky be sooooooooooo darned exotic?

>

 

The power of movies. :) her eyes. They are so worldly. The suggest EXPERIENCE. Yes, nothing's quite as "experienced" as a small town girl can be, but this suggested a broader experience, a real woman of the world of men.

 

> I truly only think Angelina Jolie comes a close distant light years to the Ava mystique. Do you see Ava in anyone working in films today other than Diane Lane?

>

> Edited by: CineMaven on Nov 19, 2010 5:27 AM...no no, just kidding. Wanted to see if you're paying attention.

 

 

ha haaaa! you got me. I'm not a big Jolie fan (i don't like her mouth). But she does have beautiful eyes. I saw her in person and found her too skinny, too. Almost anorexic. But she comes closest to that glamour. The Toursit seems to have her well dressed too, which you don't see much in movies anymore.

 

it's not the women though, it's the crummy roles. nothing glamorous or womanly anymore. joan collins was right.

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Nov 19, 2010 1:47 PM

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

© 2020 Turner Classic Movies Inc. A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...