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Dr. Rich Edwards

Daily Dose #3: Fighting For Her (Scene from The Ring)

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1. How does Hitchcock use montage or expressive editing to add vitality and rhythm to this scene? To start this appears to be a tense scene were there are 2 rooms, one with a party and the other where men are talkin. The women dancing gets more frantic as the tension grows. 

 

2. As is the case with a lot of German Expressionist films, in this scene, there are many shots that are very subjective and put us into the psychological mind of a main character. Please note the various techniques Hitchcock uses to create that feeling of subjectivity. The use of the dancers mimicking the anger of the boxer, along with the use of instruments overlapping continues to show the fast pace of the boxers anger which culminates with the record player spinning as the boxer starts to loose it.

 

3. How does Hitchcock stage the action, use set design, and editing techniques to increase the stakes in the rivalry between the two gentlemen?  As stated above the different techniques as the frantic dancers and the use of the instruments to show the growing anger of the boxer and the mirror and overlaps to show his delusional state.

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  • Being in the movie industry myself producing and writing mostly indie films, the topic of the director being an auteur (or author) of a film has come up a few times in my circle. I've always thought directors like Hitchcock , John Carpenter, Fincher and Spielberg were true auteur's. Those directors are known for their "touch" and have their hands in a lot of aspects of the films. Even though there are thousands of people who contribute to making these films great, there's still that central part of the nexus that stands out.

     

    However, I also think that a producer can be the auteur. I've known directors who just show up on set and don't really seem to bring that auteur quality. A lot of times that shows in the final product as well. So, I do think that there are certainly auteur directors but not all directors are auteur's.

 

Speaking of "The Touch", I read or heard a story about some Hollywood writers who felt their contribution to the success of a film, in particular working for Frank Capra, who at the time was at the top of his game for putting the "Capra Touch" to a film project, and were not giving the writers their due. As the story goes, one of the lead writers presented Capra with a bound script full of blank, white pages, and saying, "Here, put the Capra Touch on this!"  Could be a true story.  Sounded good!   : - )

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A side note. If there is a piano player, and people on instruments, then why is a record player playing? Are they playing to the record? Just sayin'

 

Good observation. Why didn't I notice that?

 

The piano is the live music, because there is one and the LP gives more orchestration than just the piano would, you know the party is very loud and very wild.  I would say that in the montage it is showing the new fighter's world beginning to spin out of control.

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Why did people get so dressed up in the "olden Days?" This continued through the 60's as my father wore a tie at our dinner table every night. People dressed up to go to parties and even air travel. You rarely would see someone on an airplane who was not in their best clothes. I love the casual environment we live in but in some ways I admire the respect shown for daily events in those "olden days"

I agree, interesting at a symphony you can see someone dressed up, and sitting next to them someone in t-shirt and torn jeans.  If we dresses as they did back then would our society be a little more civil?

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Sorry...posted to wrong daily dose, reposted in 4.

It will be fun the watch the progression of the "star" aspect of the course.  Hitchcock often blamed stars for forcing his films to go the way they went, because they had to come out all right in the end.  This can be seen in The Lodger where Navarro's character in the end wins the girl and is set free.  The 1944 remake by John Brahm with George Sanders as the policeman and Laird Cregar as the lodger (losing weight for the part led to his death in 1931).  In 1944 Cregar is the killer, and in the end is killed.  

 

It holds nowhere near the suspense of Hitchcock's.   Also, The Man Who Knew Too Much had to be changed from it's 1934 version by Hitchcock to accommodate a "star" Jimmy Stewart in 1956, because he needed more screen time and a more active roll than in 1934.  

 

Hitchcock's dislike of "method" actors is an area we will hopefully get into, like Montgomery Clift in I Confess.  I am really looking forward to this section of our weekly lectures/daily doses.

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1.    How does Hitchcock use montage or expressive editing to add vitality and rhythm to this scene? 

a.    Hitchcock has been cited as noting that montage is the lynchpin of cinema.  That the smashing together two dissimilar shots to a greater effect than just the shots alone.  Notice how his quick cuts during the party scene heightens the overall effect to a party that is quickly getting out of control.  The cuts are quick and the shot length shortens moving the action faster and faster.  By the end of the clip reality is completely distorted till even the piano keys melt from the hysteria going on in the boxer’s jealous mind and he must remove himself.  Hitchcock has taken the lessons learned from the soviet montage theory (Eisenstein, Kuleshov, Vertov, Pudovkin, et.al.) and incorporated it into his own style.  A style he will master and refine his entire career.

2.    As is the case with a lot of German Expressionist films, in this scene, there are many shots that are very subjective and put us into the psychological mind of a main character. Please note the various techniques Hitchcock uses to create that feeling of subjectivity. 

a.    Note shortly after the opening shot the boxer is being told how quickly he’s rising up the fight card and that his training starts the next day.  He turns to look off camera and his expression turns from delight to concern, but we don’t know why he’s concerned.  Thru the door to the next room Hitchcock shows us his wife and another man reflected in a mirror.  He use of a mirror image of the couple might suggest that what we are about to see is not real, but the boxer’s interpretation of what he sees.  What he beings to imagine in his jealous thoughts are the man and his wife beginning a flirtatious romance which can only end one way.  When there is a cut to what’s really happening at the party, the man and his wife have not changed positions and they are just enjoying the dancing girls and drinking boys, no flirtation.  When we cut back to the boxer his psychological state is near hysteria as he imagines them in a passionate kissing romance, he is fairly beside himself with jealous rage and does not want to go into training and leave his wife.  Then using another set of cuts in montage, he’s brought back to reality and admits that what he saw was all in his mind.  His manager sets him straight by telling him via intertitle card that she’s the real champion.  Using quick rapidly accelerating cuts, visual effects and a bit of Kuleshov effect he has taken us into the subjective mind of the boxer and his heightening jealousy.  In this early film he is already gaining mastery in the subjective technique and taking us into the mind of our protagonist. 

3.    How does Hitchcock stage the action, use set design, and editing techniques to increase the stakes in the rivalry between the two gentlemen? 

a.    Notice how the stage for the party and the one the boxer is in are two distinctly different sets.  The room the boxer is in is small and narrow with only a doorway to look through.  Does not this narrow view to a mirror tell us something about the narrowness of the boxer’s perspective?

The party scene is staged in a much larger set, open, free and wild.  The revilers have plenty of room to dance, drink and cavort.  This allows Hitchcock to ramp up the action and wind up the party into a near riot.  Then he shows up the couple (boxer’s wife and companion)  seated on a chair and arm of the chair.  Via intertitle card he wants to take her to see the dancer in here show she knows that this is not quite right and we see her expression turn quickly as her looks off at her boxer husband in the next room.  Amidst all the drinking (and there’s a lot of that) and dancing she might be tempted, so maybe its not all in the boxer’s mind.  Through his masterful use of setting, action and editing he has thrust us right into the party, the boxer’s mind and the mind of his wife.  All in this short clip.  Now that’s cinema!

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1. i think because so much is going on at the party, it would slow things down to go into detail about the things we see in the montage. it's a quick delivery system that allows him to get the information out there without detracting from other things. it also creates tension between the two events, what the main character is really thinking, and what's going on right in front of him at the party.

 

2. the main character being disconnected from what's going on around him gives the viewer a lot to digest, drawing you into his mind, while having to "keep up with everything that's going on". the mirror scenes were pretty cool too, kind of a voyeuristic feeling about them.

 

3. the first long shot immediately made me think of Rope (and i think there were one or two more), it's a broad room shot where we have to rewind to see what everyone is doing at the party, after all, we don't want to miss anything...once again, he draws us in.

 

i also caught the part about the "musicians, then what's the phonograph for", accompaniment i guess.

 

i couldn't tell for sure, but it seemed like he was trying to morph the dancing girls into the piano keys, probably just for fun, either way the elongated keys were interesting.

 

i have this movie in one of my Hitchcock collections, but have never watched it, it's on my list now.

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As such a visual storyteller (silent film director to the end) and one who is willing to break the bounds of realism for experimentation and expressionism, Hitchcock transcends not only the need for sound and dialogue, but for the narrated interiority of his characters. In this opening scene of The Ring, the fighter about to begin training is conflicted. He can't keep his mind off of his wife and the other man, and his thoughts are a whirl, unable to focus. A lesser director would have simply had him confess this to the other men in the room through a title card, or dialogue if made as a "talkie." But Hitchcock uses his medium to express what the fighter is going through, so that we are not only informed of it, but we are made to feel it ourselves. By superimposing the fighter's wife with the other man over the walls and panning to the man speaking in front of the poster, Hitchcock shows that not matter where the fighter looks and no matter what he tries to give his attention to, he sees only his wife with the other man. We understand this is how the fighter feels, but we feel it too, since for that sequence, we see his wife with the other man everywhere we look. Likewise, the montage of piano and stringed instruments expresses the jumble and inability to focus within the fighter's mind. We see distorted keys and superimposed ukuleles and banjo, and then the fighters head, positioned so that the body of the banjo strums across his forehead. Through the distortion and superimposition, the images are running together. We can't focus on any one, and neither can the fighter. Then a spinning record is added over the banjo on his forehead to show the constant cycle of his turmoil. Hitchcock's mastery of visuals allows us greater empathy with the protagonist which is a hallmark of great storytelling.

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1. How does Hitchcock use montage or expressive editing to add vitality and rhythm to this scene? -- This montage scene is far smoother than the others presented. It is used to provide a thread of the character's inner thoughts and the jumble of sounds which indicate the clamor within him. It is interesting to consider that the woman never actually kissed her companion - only that it was seen in the mind of her husband.


2. As is the case with a lot of German Expressionist films, in this scene, there are many shots that are very subjective and put us into the psychological mind of a main character. Please note the various techniques Hitchcock uses to create that feeling of subjectivity. -- Hitchcock used montage (to create sound and inner dialogue where there is none), mirrors (concerns reflected), doorways (paths to be taken and one eventually closed).


3. How does Hitchcock stage the action, use set design, and editing techniques to increase the stakes in the rivalry between the two gentlemen? -- by the use of mirror, implied loud sounds and doors he creates a wall - they may only be a room apart, but this distance becomes the start of a crack within the marriage.


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Oh, Hitch.....you continue to show your maturity with each passing film.  The scene from "The Ring" uses some strong editing features to add to intensity and emotion of the scene.  The piano keys, the spinning record, the close embrace....the all meld together to create a very tumultuous and highly stressful moment for the husband.  This editing technique pulls together all of the emotions the husband is feeling without a single word spoken.  Genius!  With the wife staged on the lap of the other gentleman and the extremely close proximity as she is speaking to him while the husband looks on (imagines everything), Hitchcock is able to capture the rivalry felt between these two men.

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I first watched this film last year, and really enjoyed it. I think what is the most striking to me in this clip is the use of the mirror, not only to deliver information to the audience, but metaphorically to reveal a reflection to Jack of things to come. He sees the "better boxer" with his wife, a reflection of what he would most like to be.

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1. How does Hitchcock use montage or expressive editing to add vitality and rhythm to this scene?


The montage technique is even more pronounced in "The Ring".  This technique generates tension and some excitement especially the musical instrument montage.  You can almost feel the rivalry between the two characters even though there is no spoken dialogue.    


2. As is the case with a lot of German Expressionist films, in this scene, there are many shots that are very subjective and put us into the psychological mind of a main character. Please note the various techniques Hitchcock uses to create that feeling of subjectivity.  


I love the use of the mirror as well as multiple montages to lead us into the mind of the main character.


3. How does Hitchcock stage the action, use set design, and editing techniques to increase the stakes in the rivalry between the two gentlemen?  


There is much action throughout which heightens the tension.  Great use of the mirror and I love the long shots on individual characters including close ups with eyes moving back and forth to give the viewer a sense of inner life for each of the characters.  


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It is interesting to see Jack looking indirectly at his wife as she flirts with the champ because they are being observed without their knowledge. Then later, she observes Jack in the same way. This is a technique used in other films by Hitchcock.

 

Also, I believe the audience could get caught up in the whirlwind tone of the scenes with the combination of joviality and drinking.  Its almost like we are there at the party and can empahtizes with Jack's feeling of losing control and questioning his next life move.  Does he stay and not advance his career or leave and risk losing his wife?

 

The superimposing of a larger image of his wife flirting while Jack's eyes stare, mouth twitches, and yet he listens to his promoter's voice is helpful to the audience.  It also contributes further information about Jack's state of mind--psychological mind of the character as seen in the Germanic experimental style.  Everything is happening so dizzingly fast as well as the keys are being drummed and the record is spinning.  This all has an affect on Jack's crazed look.  All at once this is all too much to a good guy. While at the same time, his business friends try to assure him that he must go ahead and try to advance his career in order to become a champion like the one his wife so admirers.  Fast-paced and powerful story scene happening to an average guy who is trying to make it in the world. 

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Interesting - I just watched the film "The Ring" and the soundtrack was quite different from the scene shown. Although I could make out piano in the scene, it was a background instrument and the scene contained the orchestral feel that began and ended in the film. 

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1) Vitality and rhythm are created by the quick piano music and when the dancers blend in the piano keys. That's a cool technique that very Hitchcock. Loved that scene! Also the quick dancing by the ladies helps create vitality and rhythm.

2) You can subjectivity in the young man's eyes as he stares out and his eyes glare. You can really feel the tension then between the two.

3) Set design- The men are seen in a business setting, but the young woman is seen in a party atmosphere, suggesting their personalities, perhaps. The long shot looking into the mirror helps create tension, as well. The manager is standing while the fighter remains seated. The manager puts his hands on the fighter's shoulder or chair, suggesting dominance.

Great clip. Another movie I'm looking forward to viewing.

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1. Time's passing quickly in regards to the party. Hitchcock uses a sort of "fun house mirror" image to montage the music, the dancing, and the joviality , all while the main characters are in turmoil. 


2. When the images start to overlay reality for the MC (seeing his wife and the other boxer, imagining them getting closer and closer to the point of kissing), it's a look into the inside of the MC's mind. His thoughts speed up, get ahead of what's happening, and we see his turmoil.


3. The constant back and forth with the mirror sets up the rivalry from the start of the clip, and then follows throughout as we watch the MC start to "fall apart." It cuts from the fun of the dancers to the closeness of the wife and the champ, then back to our MC, watching it all as his world unravels.


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By moving from the solemnity of the fighter and his trainers to the abandon of the dancing, you feel the importance of this fight to the boxer. This is emphasized by the poster indicating the upcoming bout and the serious attitude of his retinue.  The man will fight for his wife in the ring, which makes the partying seem superfluous and the champ a peacock resting on the glory of his title, even flaunting it to his opponent to undercut his confidence.  Has he arranged to sit there with the contender's wife, knowing the mirror will cast their images into the inner sanctum of his opponent's mind to enrage his foe to throw him off kilter?   The man will fight for his wife in the ring until he notices her and the champion getting rather intimate, and the fight then moves from the ring to his mind.  The use of the ghostly images of this pairing of his wife with the complacent champ indicates the mindset of the boxer.  Then I wonder if what he's seeing in the mirror actually reflects what's going on with his wife and the champ, or is he really inflating the situation in his mind, allowing his jealousy to grow in intensity, reading into the situation more than it actually is?  He is now consumed with a new fight - one based in jealousy.  A fight with no rules or boundaries.  You can see by his facial expressions that all self control is beginning to give way to the need to reclaim his territory.  His wife also catches his reflection in the mirror, and her expression seems to indicate a crisis of conscience. Is she enamored of the importance which a title would afford her, or is it just a desire to show her husband that he doesn't pay her the attention he should.  She must be aware that her husband can see her, so does she taunt him with her attentions to the champ to goad his fight instinct, or is she denigrating him for not being the champ?

 

Again the boxer's eyes grow larger and they seem to be lit up, much like those of Bela Lugosi as Dracula.  You see his jealously become tangible, and he erupts into verbally expressing his rage and jealousy, startling the party goers.  But even this will not diminish the ever growing bacchanal  in which they are engaged, which is a way of fighting the everyday humdrum of life.  

 

The party grows into a crescendo of drunken revelry, and booze freely flows to lower the inhibitions of all.  The music spins round and round on the record player, while the dancing and drinking grow in intensity.  And as the party goers imbibe, they actually turn into the music as expressed by the exaggerated piano keys, appearing to be drunk in themselves.  This is a new fight to ply the women with liquor to lower their resistance and win the  prize they've sought all night.

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1 & 2)  Wow, there is a whole lot of emotion packed into one short scene.  The scene starts out at what I would consider a normal pace but as the party goes on and Frank sees his wife with Bob through the mirror (awesome touch), the party increases to a frantic level.  Eventually, various frantic images are superimposed and morphed to the point that we clearly feel how upset frank is and how he feels like his life is spiraling out of control and his only focus, be it distorted or not, is his wife's feelings for Bob.  I also like the use of the mirror in that it makes one wonder, is Frank seeing what is really happening or is his view distorted symbolized by the mirror. 

 

3)  I think the best example of the set design increasing the rivalry is Frank being in one room with Bob and Frank's wife in the other, yet they can see each other through the mirror that ironically is framed by a doorway.  Frank is visibly upset by seeing Bob and his wife enjoying the party and lashes out at them yet shuts the door so that he can no longer see them.  Is it a decision to "close the door" on the issue of Bob and his wife and focus on his career or?  I actually did get to see the movie in it's entirety so I will not spoil it. 

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I found the montage and editing really convey the sense of the frantic imaginings of the husband. His mind appears to be spinning: everything is sped up and distorted just like his thinking. With this sense of distortion and confusion, like drunken party guests, you aren't sure what really happened. You are left to sort what is factual from fabrication. Later when Jack shouts at the guests, you see their bewilderment at his behavior. You can surmise that Jack is not in a rational state of mind.

 

Placing the characters in different rooms, compartmentalizing them in different environments, gives the sense of separation between the couple in a very physical way. With the both of them viewing the other through the reflection of the mirror, you see the couple visualizing the other not only through the lens of their perception, but everything is also physically flipped.

 

The sense of rivalry between Bob and Jack is shown by the attention of Mabel. Mabel is relaxed and jovial in the presence of Bob. His attention is on her and pulls her close. Jack is tense and isolated in another room, and Mabel looks unhappy when she is thinking of him. When she glances into the mirror, he is turned away from her.

 

 

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1. How does Hitchcock use montage or expressive editing to add vitality and rhythm to this scene? 


It's a case of using the frenzy of dancing, music, drinking and a distortion of those images that puts the audience inside the boxer's mind, i.e. you know he's worried about the state of his marriage, and that the possibility of his wife's infidelity (with his opponent/reigning champ, no less!) will be the impetus for him in the boxing ring (he's fighting for her).


2. As is the case with a lot of German Expressionist films, in this scene, there are many shots that are very subjective and put us into the psychological mind of a main character. Please note the various techniques Hitchcock uses to create that feeling of subjectivity.


As mentioned previously, the montage of music (shot of the spinning phonograph record), frenetic dancing (first by the two women, who are later joined by others) and drunkenness becomes the portal to the main character's state of mind. The accelerated pace and movement, the distortion of the visuals, plus the musical accompaniment that we DO hear all contribute to what could be a mental breakdown (I have never seen The Ring, so I do not know if that is the outcome). The main character is consumed by these images.


3. How does Hitchcock stage the action, use set design, and editing techniques to increase the stakes in the rivalry between the two gentlemen?  


What appears to be mounting action of the dancing, music, etc., punctuated by closeup shots (that seem to get closer and closer) of the wife sitting on his opponent's lap and kissing him - all undercut by shots through a mirror of the conversation by the main character with his manager/boxing official - which eventually leads to an outburst by the boxer (surprising the party guests) were elements that really painted a picture of the rivalry that would play out in the boxing ring. Then juxtaposed to everything is his calm, sheepish apology (that's what it appeared to be) and his subsequent retreat to the conversation with his manager about training and finally, the closing door, all shot as a mirror image (which reminded me of the closing scene of The Godfather). After viewing this emotion and action-packed clip, I can't wait to see the full feature!


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The scene concentrates on the thoughts of the husband.  From the reflection in a mirror, he can see his wife, in the adjacent room, sitting next to the other man; this image disturbs him. The partygoers are having a good time, and the images alter between the dancers, musicians, guests and the wife sitting with the other man. The gaiety in the party room and thoughts of his wife kissing the other man overwhelm the husband's mind. His distorted thoughts are seen as transparent images floating through the room, superimposed over the actual objects in his sight.  The limbs of  the dancers and the piano keys are stretched into abstract shapes, also reflecting the distortion of his thoughts. 

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I noticed how editing was used to switch back and forth between the girls dancing and the wife and boxing champ. Though it's almost like two different scenes taking place, they're still in the same room and with the use of montage, it makes it seem continuous, as well as balances out the action.

 

I really liked the scene of the husband, where he sees his wife in the next room and begins to imagine what he believes will take place unless he does something to stop it. This gives us insight into his character and the stress he feels (especially when he walks into the room after imagining them kissing) about whether or not to box at this event. Yet, he's convinced it's the way to win her back. The set design was also done very well, with the wife seeing her husband in the other room and vice versa. To me, this says that they're still thinking about each other, even though they are almost living two separate lives. I'll be very interested to watch this movie on TCM and see what happens.

 

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The Ring was a very lively and engaging clip. The more tense the situation was, the faster the girls dance. There was a lot of tension and pure excitement, especially in the musical instrument montage. Also, the rivalry between the two male characters, was so intense even though no words were spoken. The use of the carnival fun house mirror was truly a work of genius. The montage scenes led us inside the characters raw emotions, and a reoccurring theme in Hitch's movies is the ever present  voyeuristic element.

I also love the way Hitch blended the dancing girls into the piano keys, very unique and mesmerizing touch.

 

 

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1. How does Hitchcock use montage or expressive editing to add vitality and rhythm to this scene? Montages were used later in the scene to heighten the frenzy and suspense of the party vs the boxer's meeting. One gets a sense that the entire situation is out of control and is headed for a showdown between the champ and the contender. 

 

2. As is the case with a lot of German Expressionist films, in this scene, there are many shots that are very subjective and put us into the psychological mind of a main character. Please note the various techniques Hitchcock uses to create that feeling of subjectivity.

The 2 main shots utilized in this clip was the boxer observing his wife as she cavorts with the champ. It distracts him from the meeting at hand. The wife is also shown watching her husband in the other room and that gives her pause and for a moment her mind is taken out of the party at hand.

 

3. How does Hitchcock stage the action, use set design, and editing techniques to increase the stakes in the rivalry between the two gentlemen? The frenzy created by the rapid cuts and the distorted quality of the party coincides with the superimposition of the boxer's fantasy of his wife kissing the champ. He jumps up and goes to the other room, only to find nothing awry. Then he goes back in and decides to "fight for her". The competition is set.

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1. How does Hitchcock use montage or expressive editing to add vitality and rhythm to this scene?

 

I thought the montage conveyed a passage of time in the minds eye of the fighter by showing accelerated jealousy. At first it's. Not bad but as the music gets faster and faster the jealousy grows until he is almost mad with it.

 

2. As is the case with a lot of German Expressionist films, in this scene, there are many shots that are very subjective and put us into the psychological mind of a main character. Please note the various techniques Hitchcock uses to create that feeling of subjectivity.

 

I loved the shots in the mirror. You feel almost like a voyeur to the other room. She sees him he sees her. It adds a different element to the story.

 

3. How does Hitchcock stage the action, use set design, and editing techniques to increase the stakes in the rivalry between the two gentlemen?

 

The mirror provides a look into the other room but also possibly a look into the future of the boxer. If he goes to fight, his wife will find comfort in the Champ. It's a good opportunity for him but he doesn't want to leave her because he fears divorce.

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