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Immigration Policy?


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5 minutes ago, mr6666 said:

Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump

 

Friday’s tour showed vividly, to politicians and the media, how well run and clean the children’s detention centers are. Great reviews! Failing @nytimes story was FAKE! The adult single men areas were clean but crowded - also loaded up with a big percentage of criminals......

.....Sorry, can’t let them into our Country. If too crowded, tell them not to come to USA, and tell the Dems to fix the Loopholes - Problem Solved!

Tony PosnanskiVerified account @tonyposnanski 7h7 hours ago

 
 

No. It showed how much Mike Pence doesn’t give a **** about human beings. It’s on video. **** him and **** you.

-----------------------------------------------------

Dad Jokes Galore @ibdanil 6h6 hours ago

 

Notice a similar look?

D_cTj02WwAAsi7O.jpg
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1 hour ago, mr6666 said:

-----------------------------------------------------

Dad Jokes Galore @ibdanil 6h6 hours ago

 

Notice a similar look?

D_cTj02WwAAsi7O.jpg

NO.  While the conditions are deplorable and the Trump administration is responsible for the mismanagement that caused it, there is no similarity between this and ****'s concentration camps.  This is exactly the kind of overboard misinformation and commentary that offends so many independent and anti-Trump Republicans.  Ultimately it devalues the communications that the above people make.  Just like those of Trump and the right-wingnuts who support him.

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Trump’s “Remain in Mexico” Policy Exposes Migrants to Rape, Kidnapping, and Murder in Dangerous Border Cities

 

"....... They have been booted out of San Diego, Calexico, and El Paso and sent to nearby Mexican border cities to wait. Juárez, across from El Paso, has received the largest number: almost 8,000 people. The new program, commonly referred to as “Remain in Mexico,” is called MPP, short for the Migrant Protection Protocols.

 

To call that phrase Orwellian is a gross understatement.

The MPP, rather than protect migrants, puts them in grave danger.

It mandates that they remain in crime-ridden Mexican border cities for months, even years, waiting for U.S. courts to decide their asylum claims. Every few weeks, refugees enrolled in the MPP are brought into U.S. border cities such as El Paso to see an immigration judge. But after their hearings, they are sent back to Mexico, to cities so violent that the U.S. State Department recommends that Americans limit travel to them, or avoid travel entirely.......

Deported to Death” analyzes data he has been collecting for years about what happens to immigrants, mostly Mexicans, who have been expelled from the U.S. to Mexican cities like Juárez.

Because most migrants are transient, poor, and without local ties, few if any residents of the border cities will know, much less protest, if they are hurt or killed.

Slack says that Central Americans and other non-Mexicans may have it even worse. They are at severe risk of being robbed, kidnapped for ransom, beaten, raped, murdered — or at the very least, traumatized by violence.....

 

....Judge Herbert is always punctiliously pleasant and respectful to the refugees, calling them “sir” and “ma’am,” and asking after their children’s health before testimony begins. His politesse only underscores the Alice-in-Wonderland absurdity and cruelty of the MPP.

“Ma’am, since the last time we were together, did you use the Legal Aid list I gave you then to find a lawyer?” he asks one Central American after another as the hearing drones on.

He already knows the answer.

“I made 30 calls,” the woman says. “Half of them didn’t answer. The other half said they wouldn’t take my case.”...

 

The judge tells these people to ask the government lawyers in the courtroom about their loved ones’ whereabouts, or perhaps to inquire with a CBP officer. The judge in his black robe is unerringly kindhearted when he dispenses this counsel, but also unerringly chirpy. He might as well be a uniformed parking attendant, advising people about how to find their cars after they left them too long in the lot and were victims of the tow truck.

Nowhere, however, is the fracture between reality and rhetoric more chilling than when the migrants plead to be allowed to stay in the U.S. ,,,,,,,,,

...only about one in 100 migrants in the MPP receive non-refoulement interviews that get them out of Mexico. To pass the interview, according to the rules, one must show that it is “more likely than not” that they will be subjected to violence. For the government, the fact that a migrant has already been victimized in a third country does not mean they will be hurt in the future. ......

 

It seems that the only victimized migrants who are guaranteed under the MPP to achieve relief from future harm are those who no longer need relief from anything, because they are dead. .......

The government is now planning to vastly expand .........

Migrants will have their hearings in these tents, but judges will not be there. Instead, they will preside by video from hundreds or thousands of miles away. If a migrant manages to get a lawyer, the attorney might not be allowed in the tent, either, but instead will have to travel to the distant judge’s court. Rumors among immigrant rights activists are that community observers and reporters will also banned from the tents. The courts will run for 14 hours a day .......

https://theintercept.com/2019/07/14/trump-remain-in-mexico-policy/

 

 

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16 hours ago, mr6666 said:

Trump’s “Remain in Mexico” Policy Exposes Migrants to Rape, Kidnapping, and Murder in Dangerous Border Cities

 

"....... They have been booted out of San Diego, Calexico, and El Paso and sent to nearby Mexican border cities to wait. Juárez, across from El Paso, has received the largest number: almost 8,000 people. The new program, commonly referred to as “Remain in Mexico,” is called MPP, short for the Migrant Protection Protocols.

 

To call that phrase Orwellian is a gross understatement.

The MPP, rather than protect migrants, puts them in grave danger.

It mandates that they remain in crime-ridden Mexican border cities for months, even years, waiting for U.S. courts to decide their asylum claims. Every few weeks, refugees enrolled in the MPP are brought into U.S. border cities such as El Paso to see an immigration judge. But after their hearings, they are sent back to Mexico, to cities so violent that the U.S. State Department recommends that Americans limit travel to them, or avoid travel entirely.......

Deported to Death” analyzes data he has been collecting for years about what happens to immigrants, mostly Mexicans, who have been expelled from the U.S. to Mexican cities like Juárez.

Because most migrants are transient, poor, and without local ties, few if any residents of the border cities will know, much less protest, if they are hurt or killed.

Slack says that Central Americans and other non-Mexicans may have it even worse. They are at severe risk of being robbed, kidnapped for ransom, beaten, raped, murdered — or at the very least, traumatized by violence.....

 

....Judge Herbert is always punctiliously pleasant and respectful to the refugees, calling them “sir” and “ma’am,” and asking after their children’s health before testimony begins. His politesse only underscores the Alice-in-Wonderland absurdity and cruelty of the MPP.

“Ma’am, since the last time we were together, did you use the Legal Aid list I gave you then to find a lawyer?” he asks one Central American after another as the hearing drones on.

He already knows the answer.

“I made 30 calls,” the woman says. “Half of them didn’t answer. The other half said they wouldn’t take my case.”...

 

The judge tells these people to ask the government lawyers in the courtroom about their loved ones’ whereabouts, or perhaps to inquire with a CBP officer. The judge in his black robe is unerringly kindhearted when he dispenses this counsel, but also unerringly chirpy. He might as well be a uniformed parking attendant, advising people about how to find their cars after they left them too long in the lot and were victims of the tow truck.

Nowhere, however, is the fracture between reality and rhetoric more chilling than when the migrants plead to be allowed to stay in the U.S. ,,,,,,,,,

...only about one in 100 migrants in the MPP receive non-refoulement interviews that get them out of Mexico. To pass the interview, according to the rules, one must show that it is “more likely than not” that they will be subjected to violence. For the government, the fact that a migrant has already been victimized in a third country does not mean they will be hurt in the future. ......

 

It seems that the only victimized migrants who are guaranteed under the MPP to achieve relief from future harm are those who no longer need relief from anything, because they are dead. .......

The government is now planning to vastly expand .........

Migrants will have their hearings in these tents, but judges will not be there. Instead, they will preside by video from hundreds or thousands of miles away. If a migrant manages to get a lawyer, the attorney might not be allowed in the tent, either, but instead will have to travel to the distant judge’s court. Rumors among immigrant rights activists are that community observers and reporters will also banned from the tents. The courts will run for 14 hours a day .......

https://theintercept.com/2019/07/14/trump-remain-in-mexico-policy/

 

 

So, what is your recommendation that the US taxpayer do with all these people applying for asylum?

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51 minutes ago, TheCid said:

So, what is your recommendation that the US taxpayer do with all these people applying for asylum?

Give them due process and process their claims ASAP.  Do not remove children from their families while this is happening.  Assign more judges to do this, instead of removing them.  This crisis has been largely created/exacerbated by the Trump Administration to feed the narrative to the basest  of his base.

 

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49 minutes ago, Arturo said:

Give them due process and process their claims ASAP.  Do not remove children from their families while this is happening.  Assign more judges to do this, instead of removing them.  This crisis has been largely created/exacerbated by the Trump Administration to feed the narrative to the basest  of his base.

 

After they are given due process and the judge denies their request,   can they then be deported?   

Note that this is what happened to the 2,000 or so illegal immigrants related to the news of raids:  They had at least one hearing,  the request was denied,  and they were released to 'take care of business' and agreed to report back to ICE be removed.    They don't return;  shouldn't the home of their sponsor be raided to removed those that had due-process?

IF NOT,  what then??????

 

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1 hour ago, Arturo said:

Give them due process and process their claims ASAP.  Do not remove children from their families while this is happening.  Assign more judges to do this, instead of removing them.  This crisis has been largely created/exacerbated by the Trump Administration to feed the narrative to the basest  of his base.

 

 

11 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

After they are given due process and the judge denies their request,   can they then be deported?   

Note that this is what happened to the 2,000 or so illegal immigrants related to the news of raids:  They had at least one hearing,  the request was denied,  and they were released to 'take care of business' and agreed to report back to ICE be removed.    They don't return;  shouldn't the home of their sponsor be raided to removed those that had due-process?

IF NOT,  what then??????

 

I think James identified one problem area.  Some are told to leave, but don't.

But my question really involves housing, feeding and caring for them in the meantime. That is where the crisis appears to be right now.  Obviously DHS, DOEd., etc. do not have the ability to do it.  The bill that just authorized more money may not be enough.

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PBS NewsHourVerified account @NewsHour

 

The Trump administration has unveiled a sweeping new rule that would

effectively bar most Central American migrants, as well as migrants from dozens of other countries,

from seeking asylum in the United States.

Who is affected by Trump’s new rule for claiming asylum

".....The regulation would dramatically narrow who is eligible by specifically targeting immigrants who cross into the country from the southern border.

The interim rule, issued by the Departments of Justice and Homeland Security, reportedly goes into effect Tuesday when it’s scheduled to be published in the Federal Register.

Here’s what the change means for asylum-seekers in the U.S...........

Under the rule, an immigrant coming from, for example, El Salvador or Honduras would have to apply for asylum in Guatemala first before then seeking asylum in the U.S. ....

 

immigration advocates said forcing people to apply for asylum elsewhere is problematic because most of the other countries migrants travel through on their way to the U.S. are rife with violence and corruption.

“To ask people to apply for asylum in a country where the asylum system is limited and where they face persecution really flies in the face of protections we established in our own asylum system,”....

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/who-is-affected-by-trumps-new-rule-for-claiming-asylum

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“Do We Believe in Asylum?

If We Do, We Need to Stop This Rule”:

Trump Policy Upends Protections at U.S.-Mexico Border

"...... an unprecedented rule that would deny tens of thousands of asylum-seekers the chance to find refuge in the United States, imposing a bar to asylum for anybody who has passed through another country without applying for protection and being denied it there. The rule went into effect Tuesday ......

 

The so-called Migrant Protection Protocols endanger asylum-seekers by forcing them to await the processing of their claims in Mexican border towns, and generally restrict access to asylum. Nonetheless, Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the Immigrants’ Rights Project at the American Civil Liberties Union, promised, “This new rule is patently unlawful and we will sue swiftly.”

Legally speaking, the trouble with the latest ban is that it directly contradicts the very first asylum statute of the Immigration and Nationality Act,

which states, “Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum.”........

https://theintercept.com/2019/07/16/trump-new-rule-asylum-eligibility/

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43 minutes ago, mr6666 said:

Senator Dick DurbinVerified account @SenatorDurbin 55m55 minutes ago

 
 

The Trump Admin’s new rule blocking asylum claims at our southern border

will “endanger vulnerable people in need of international protection from violence or persecution,” including children and families, according to @Refugees.

 

America is better than this.

I believe this is a sound and necessary policy to counter what is an organized invasion with mostly bogus asylum claims.    

BUT I would be willing to grant asylum to a central American migrant for each illegal immigrant that shows up at the border and self-deports.      This is the policy the Dems should be pushing.    Same with Dreamers;   A dreamer is granted citizenship if the illegals that are responsible for the dreamer being here,  self-deport.

The Dem policy of amnesty for all of the 11 million illegal immigrants that are here,  allowing them to sponsor others after they are legalized,  granting asylum to million more each year and future amnesty to most incoming illegal immigrants is an insane policy.  

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Jewish, Immigrant Activists Block ICE Headquarters in Washington D.C. to Protest Immigration Policy

 

...... The Jewish and immigrant demonstrators invoked the treatment of Jews during the Holocaust, railing against the conditions of migrants detained at the border while calling for legislators to establish "permanent protection, dignity and respect for the 11 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S." .....

https://www.newsweek.com/protesters-block-ice-headquarters-washington-dc-1449592?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=NewsweekTwitter&

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2 hours ago, mr6666 said:

Jewish, Immigrant Activists Block ICE Headquarters in Washington D.C. to Protest Immigration Policy

 

...... The Jewish and immigrant demonstrators invoked the treatment of Jews during the Holocaust, railing against the conditions of migrants detained at the border while calling for legislators to establish "permanent protection, dignity and respect for the 11 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S." .....

https://www.newsweek.com/protesters-block-ice-headquarters-washington-dc-1449592?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=NewsweekTwitter&

Sounds like this Jewish wants to grant amnesty for all 11 million.     How is that not a defacto open-border policy;  get-here-any-way-you-can and there will be no negative consequences only government handouts.

 

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I have no problem with giving sanctuary  to people fleeing their country for ours in an attempt to escape possible slaughter and tyranny in their homeland.  But too, the time should be taken to REGISTER each person (or as many as possible) and insist that their stay is limited to when conditions improve in those countries, or they apply for legal citizenship.  

Sepiatone

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4 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

I have no problem with giving sanctuary  to people fleeing their country for ours in an attempt to escape possible slaughter and tyranny in their homeland.  But too, the time should be taken to REGISTER each person (or as many as possible) and insist that their stay is limited to when conditions improve in those countries, or they apply for legal citizenship.  

Sepiatone

This sounds like the TPS program that was started under Bush Jr.    Note that ALL of the areas (countries) where people were allowed to enter under TPS (t = temporary!),   have NOT been made to return.    

I.e.   the entire program was disingenuous in that temporary means forever!

Anyhow,  like I said believe the USA should take in migrants that can show they are fleeing possible slaughter and tyranny in their homeland,  but only after deportation of all (or at least a majority) the illegal immigrants that are here NOT for that reason.

 

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23 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

This sounds like the TPS program that was started under Bush Jr.    Note that ALL of the areas (countries) where people were allowed to enter under TPS (t = temporary!),   have been made to return.    

I.e.   the entire program was disingenuous in that temporary means forever!

Anyhow,  like I said believe the USA should take in migrants that can show they are fleeing possible slaughter and tyranny in their homeland,  but only after deportation of all (or at least a majority) the illegal immigrants that are here NOT for that reason.

 

Good luck in that one.  Removing millions of people, assuming it was even possible, will crash the economy and keep it stagnant for decades.  These people are not on welfare; they are an integral part of our economy.  They are taking jobs American citizens don’t want and won’t do.  

At least you have a racist  president committed to doing this, as his supporters cheer him on.

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22 minutes ago, Arturo said:

Good luck in that one.  Removing millions of people, assuming it was even possible, will crash the economy and keep it stagnant for decades.  These people are not on welfare; they are an integral part of our economy.  They are taking jobs American citizens don’t want and won’t do.  

At least you have a racist  president committed to doing this, as his supporters cheer him on.

I agree it is now impossible to remove all 11 million.   Instead I have been saying for years at this forum that around 40% should be allowed a visa and pathway to citizenship (e.g. Dreamers and select others,  like those that an employer would sponsor since they are doing a job legal residences won't do).  

The rest should be denied any and all services;  e.g. can't open a bank account,  can't rent an apartment,  etc...  This would hopefully force most to self-deport  (especially if the Dems agreed with such a plan and explained to the community the bargain here,  that some get granted legal rights but those that do NOT have to follow the law and go).

Anyhow,   at least you're honest;   no illegal immigrant should be deported.  

PS:  My wife cousin from Italy stayed with us trying to get a job in the L.A. Fashion industry (she has great Italian style).    She couldn't get a sponsor so she returned after 6 months (based on the working visa she got).    ARTURO:   Were we fools for advising her to follow the law?    She all the illegal immigrants continue to bypass the law and cut-in-line ahead  of her,  she will likely never get legal status.

You talk about fairness;   how are illegal immigrants being fair to people like this Italian women who wishes to live in So Cal,  but do so legally??????

 

 

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18 hours ago, Arturo said:

Good luck in that one.  Removing millions of people, assuming it was even possible, will crash the economy and keep it stagnant for decades.  These people are not on welfare; they are an integral part of our economy.  They are taking jobs American citizens don’t want and won’t do.  

At least you have a racist  president committed to doing this, as his supporters cheer him on.

See my post of 22 hours ago in the "Triumph of Donald Trump" thread.  They are NOT taking away jobs that "American citizens don't want and won't do."  It's just that Americans, knowledgeable of the law, WON'T do them for LESS than minimum wage.  And the "illegals" will do them for ONE DAY what they should get paid by the HOUR. 

AND it's the racist president and his wealthy 1% cronies who continually perpetuate that situation.  I mean, if ALL the non-white illegal aliens disappeared "rapture" like, those guys would wander around like zombies, trying to figure out how to mix their own drinks, draw their own baths and do their own laundry etc.  And their kids would go to school dressed shabbily, without breakfast and walking past lawns that are taller than them.  And spend languid summer days swimming in pools that are littered with fallen leaves and other debris. 

Sepiatone

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1 hour ago, Sepiatone said:

See my post of 22 hours ago in the "Triumph of Donald Trump" thread.  They are NOT taking away jobs that "American citizens don't want and won't do."  It's just that Americans, knowledgeable of the law, WON'T do them for LESS than minimum wage.  And the "illegals" will do them for ONE DAY what they should get paid by the HOUR. 

AND it's the racist president and his wealthy 1% cronies who continually perpetuate that situation.  I mean, if ALL the non-white illegal aliens disappeared "rapture" like, those guys would wander around like zombies, trying to figure out how to mix their own drinks, draw their own baths and do their own laundry etc.  And their kids would go to school dressed shabbily, without breakfast and walking past lawns that are taller than them.  And spend languid summer days swimming in pools that are littered with fallen leaves and other debris. 

Sepiatone

I am sure there are some cases of that, but not that many.  I have had small conractors doing all kinds of work on my home in the past 30 years.  A white guy shows up to do the estimate and then a crew of Hispanics shows up to do the work.  They are all licensed, regulated, insured, etc. so I am sure the contractor is paying minimum wage at least.  I have spoken to people who know what is being paid and it is at least minimum wage, if not more.

The difference is many Anglo or African-Americans want far more than minimum wage, to work 30 hours per week for full-pay and to be damn slow with the work.  The Hispanics hit the job running and work until it is done or after sundown, 40+ hours per week.  Recently had a Hispanic repairing my roof in the rain, in the dark, in the cold at 10:00 PM.  His white employer came by to collect the check.

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On 7/17/2019 at 12:36 PM, jamesjazzguitar said:

 My wife cousin from Italy stayed with us trying to get a job in the L.A. Fashion industry (she has great Italian style).    She couldn't get a sponsor so she returned after 6 months (based on the working visa she got).   

 

Too bad she didn't know the people Melania knew.

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Sure Cid.  The type of exploitation you mention goes on a lot too.  Nobody EVER said these guys do shabby work, but generally are WAY underpaid in most cases.  Pass and enforce laws that insist these guys get the same rate as anybody else does and they'll be hustling for jobs on the same level playing field  as the rest of us.  Plus, you can pay an illegal "under the table" for less an hour than a "whettoe"(white American,AKA "Gringo") and too, pocket any federal, state and **** that should have been deducted and sent to Uncle Sam with Sam and the illegal being none the wiser.  ;)

Sepiatone

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What constitutional rights do undocumented immigrants have?

On Sunday, President Donald Trump tweeted that undocumented immigrants should be immediately returned “from where they came” with “no Judges or Court Cases.”

This, along with the administration’s “zero-tolerance” immigration policy and the recent spike in family separations at the border — a practice President Donald Trump ended through executive order — has called attention to the legal rights of immigrants under U.S. law.

What rights do undocumented immigrants have to a court hearing, to an attorney or to free speech? What rights do their children have to education?......

 

does the U.S. Constitution apply to undocumented immigrants?

“Yes, without question,” said Cristina Rodriguez, a professor at Yale Law School. “Most of the provisions of the Constitution apply on the basis of personhood and jurisdiction in the United States.”

Many parts of the Constitution use the term “people” or “person” rather than “citizen.” Rodriguez said those laws apply to everyone physically on U.S. soil, whether or not they are a citizen.

As a result, many of the basic rights, such as the freedom of religion and speech, the right to due process and equal protection under the law apply to citizens and noncitizens..........

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-constitutional-rights-do-undocumented-immigrants-have

 

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50 minutes ago, mr6666 said:

What constitutional rights do undocumented immigrants have?

On Sunday, President Donald Trump tweeted that undocumented immigrants should be immediately returned “from where they came” with “no Judges or Court Cases.”

This, along with the administration’s “zero-tolerance” immigration policy and the recent spike in family separations at the border — a practice President Donald Trump ended through executive order — has called attention to the legal rights of immigrants under U.S. law.

What rights do undocumented immigrants have to a court hearing, to an attorney or to free speech? What rights do their children have to education?......

 

does the U.S. Constitution apply to undocumented immigrants?

“Yes, without question,” said Cristina Rodriguez, a professor at Yale Law School. “Most of the provisions of the Constitution apply on the basis of personhood and jurisdiction in the United States.”

Many parts of the Constitution use the term “people” or “person” rather than “citizen.” Rodriguez said those laws apply to everyone physically on U.S. soil, whether or not they are a citizen.

As a result, many of the basic rights, such as the freedom of religion and speech, the right to due process and equal protection under the law apply to citizens and noncitizens..........

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-constitutional-rights-do-undocumented-immigrants-have

 

With or without the Constitution, migrants or immigrants have rights under international law.

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  • 3 weeks later...

:wacko:

300 of 680 people detained in Mississippi ICE raids released: Report

.......Just less than half of those detained in raids on seven food processing plants in Bay Springs, Carthage, Canton, Morton, Pelahatchie and Sebastapol were released from custody Wednesday evening, ICE spokesperson Bryan Cox told the Mississippi Clarion-Ledger Thursday.

Cox said Wednesday afternoon that while everyone detained would be processed, “not everyone is going to be [permanently] detained,” according to the newspaper.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Mississippi called the raids, the biggest single-state immigration enforcement operation in history, “unnecessary and cruel.”..........

https://thehill.com/latino/456736-300-of-680-people-detained-in-mississippi-ice-raids-released-report

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