Ford at Fox... and RKO, and MGM, and WB, and Columbia...

[Film_Fatale]

Did I hear someone say *chocolate cake* ?!?!?

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> the credits roll on to say "Red River Valley" sung by Lindsay Anderson and accompanied on guitar by........Frank Grimes! lol

>

> So now we know all that talk about "Crappy Pappy" is obviously a bunch of hooey.

>

> That's an impostor! I wouldn't be caught dead around anything Ford. A true gentleman must always keep the highest of standards.

 

 

Don't try to CRAWL out of it---you are EXPOSED for the true Pappy Sap that you are.

[MissGoddess]

Thank you ladies! And make that double fudge, please....

[rohanaka]

make that double fudge

 

I like the way you think!! :-) I will end my day with this post so I can go to sleep with visions of double fudge chocolate cake dancing in my brain!! (In the morning I am sure I will be at least 2 pounds heavier--all I have to do is THINK of food and it finds its way to my waistline!) 'Night all!! :-)

[MissGoddess]

Nitey night, Kathy and everyone!

 

And *Never Apologize* (for loving chocolate among other things)!

[Film_Fatale]

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> Nitey night, Kathy and everyone!

>

> And *Never Apologize* (for loving chocolate among other things)!

 

Goes double for me. I hope I can dream of not just double fudge but also a few extra brownies.

[rohanaka]

Hey Miss G...The Searchers was just on (on (AMC) (Oh-I hated the commercial interruptions! Someday I hope I will get this one on tape or find the DVD)

 

I missed the first half of it...but caught the ending....my poor husband's been trying to get me ready to go to Walmart for the last 45 minutes!! I kept saying...it'll be over soon--just a few more minutes :-) He finally gave up and ran to the gas station first just to get that chore out of the way....he will be back soon and then we'll have to go shopping. He's a very patient man--he has to be to put up with me! :-) But I just had to make it to the end of the movie so I could hear Ethan say...."Let's go home Debbie". Oh -sob- I had my tissue all ready!!!

 

Now I gotta go buy some laundry soap, toilet paper, and dog food. Seems a little anti-climactic compared to watching the end of that movie...And it will put me way behind on getting my Saturday chores all wrapped up I guess...but I never mind finding an excuse to do that! :-)

[movieman1957]

Walmart might likely will have "The Searchers" along with the detergent. BTW, don't forget the M&Ms.

[rohanaka]

I try to keep a look out for all my old movie favorites when I go there--but haven' t seen that one yet. However, one time I did get a DVD set with 20 of the Duke's films---mostly little 50-60 minute early films--some I've never heard of--I haven't had time to watch them yet--It's kind of poor quality but it came w/ Angel and the Badman and McClintock--two of his that I really like--so it was worth the $5 just to get those two--and someday when I have more time I will watch all the other stuff on there-- I think there is even a Ford documentary on there as well....I haven't had it too long so I need to sit down some time and check it all out.

 

don't forget the M&Ms.

 

HA! We already bought the M&M's on sale yesterday at the grocery store--have you tried the new cherry ones??? They taste like chocolate covered cherries--without the goo!! :-)

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=rohanaka wrote:}{quote}

> Hey Miss G...The Searchers was just on (on (AMC) (Oh-I hated the commercial interruptions! Someday I hope I will get this one on tape or find the DVD)

>

> I missed the first half of it...but caught the ending....my poor husband's been trying to get me ready to go to Walmart for the last 45 minutes!! I kept saying...it'll be over soon--just a few more minutes :-) He finally gave up and ran to the gas station first just to get that chore out of the way....he will be back soon and then we'll have to go shopping. He's a very patient man--he has to be to put up with me! :-) But I just had to make it to the end of the movie so I could hear Ethan say...."Let's go home Debbie". Oh -sob- I had my tissue all ready!!!

>

> Now I gotta go buy some laundry soap, toilet paper, and dog food. Seems a little anti-climactic compared to watching the end of that movie...And it will put me way behind on getting my Saturday chores all wrapped up I guess...but I never mind finding an excuse to do that! :-)

 

 

Hello, dahlink Kathy! I was watching (most of) The Searchers with you! And I watched another favorite, The Far Country, before that (with commercial interruption---Oh, that AMC!0. I couldn't resist. I had to leave, though, just as Ethan and the Reverend were shooting Comanche across

the river. Sigh. BIG sigh. I just melted into a puddle of goo each time the "Martha" music

came on.

 

Anyone notice how Ol' Mose stays behind with Ethan in the early part while the others go off

to the Jorengsen's? No explanation is given as to why he stays....I think we are led to assume

it's because Mose is smart enough to know that Ethan knows what he knows...that the trouble

will be at Martha and Aaron's and that they have to ease the horses first. SOME people around

here think that MARTY is just as smart as Ethan and knew what he was doing. I say this is one

scene that shows how Ethan was an experienced MAN and Marty was still a BOY.

[rohanaka]

Ethan was an experienced MAN and Marty was still a BOY.

 

I agree--to borrow from a favorite line in Raiders of the Lost Ark--it's not the years--it's the mileage--:-) and in terms of "miles" (and years too) Ethan was way ahead....Marty had a long way to go to catch up--but I think by the end of the story, he was finally getting there.

 

I ended up watching that documentary on Ford that I mentioned earlier tonight that is on that DVD set I bought recently. After talking about it earlier this evening, I decided I wanted to see it for myself...( I kind of put if off because I just haven't made the time to sit down and watch it.) I am sure that for all the more experienced folk on here--this is only one of many Ford documentaries you've already seen, but it was a treat for me---Duke, Jimmy Stewart, and Henry Fonda all sitting around talking with (and about) Ford.

 

One of the things that caught my attention was how Duke explained the closing scene of The Searchers--he said that Ford never really explained why he shuts Ethan outside.( I remember talking with someone on one of these threads a while back and I said that I've always wondered what Ethan was going to do the next day after all those years of "searching" had finally come to an end. He's the only one you really have to wonder about--everyone else had a future pretty much laid out except for him) I still did not get an answer to that question, but one thing that Duke did say was that he decided to cross his arm at the very end as a sort of tribute to Harry Carey--who's widow (Olive) was on the other side of that door-and also because Carey had been such an influence on Ford. I thought that was kinda nice.

[MissGoddess]

hi Kathy! I think that documentary sounds like the one Peter Bogdanovich did? That's the

best one I think. I love the interveiws with Fonda, Stewart and Wayne, they add so much

to the proceedings.

 

I adore Harry Carey so I always tear up at that closing scene of *The Searchers*.

[Film_Fatale]

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> hi Kathy! I think that documentary sounds like the one Peter Bogdanovich did? That's the

> best one I think. I love the interveiws with Fonda, Stewart and Wayne, they add so much

> to the proceedings.

>

> I adore Harry Carey so I always tear up at that closing scene of *The Searchers*.

 

The Bogdanovich documentary is called *Directed by John Ford* and I don't think it has yet been released on DVD. The documentary she was referring to might be the one that is a part of the Fox Home Video *Ford at Fox* box set.

[rohanaka]

What I have is called "The American West of John Ford" (at least on this DVD anyway) it was part of a very inexpensive 20 film set called "John Wayne, Amercian Hero" that I bought recently at Walmart. (I'm a bargain shopper) :-)

 

What I have been able to watch of it is so far has been rather poor quality(film condition wise) but I figured to get even a bad copy of Angel and the Bad Man and McClintock was worth 5 bucks to me. And I also got a bunch of Duke's early westerns--most are only an hour or less in length--so someday I will sit down and see what they are like.

 

As far as the documentary is concerned--I don't remember who directed it--but will try to find out--it's not listed on the box and my husband is using the DVD player right now--so will have to put it back in another time to see what it said.--but it is a very old documentary---probably from the late 60's or early 70's as Wayne, Fonda, Stewart, and Ford were all still alive--and I'm only judging by the way the three actors look in age. And it is a mixture of the 3 of them taking turns "hosting" different segments where they comment on Ford and how is was to work for him and the different memories that they shared with him. And then Ford talks with them about different things he did and remembered about filming. It was really fun to see them interact with each other.

 

Another part that I really liked was when Henry Fonda started talking to him about My Darling Clementine. He and Ford both told how Wyatt Earp actually told Ford how the whole OK Corral thing went down and that the way it was shot in this film was supposedly somewhat close to the way it really happened. Which seemed unusual to me since I know Ford relied so heavily on "legend" in his storytelling. But evidently Earp even said that he waited for the passing stagecoach or wagon ( I can't remember) to go by to create a "smokescreen" of dust for him. It was a big surprise to me to hear it all.

 

Oh- and April--something the Duke said made me think of one of your posts...he said something like "Ford didn't just tell a story, he wrote a poem; and he didn't just use a camera to film, he painted a picture." That's not an exact quote, but it's close to what he said.

 

After I watched it I was sorry I'd waited to see it. Should have watched it ahead of the movies, but I just kept putting it off. It may be one you've seen already, but it was all new to me. Well worth the inexpensive price to get all of that together in one box--even if the film quality is not up to standard. :-)

 

PS--I just went into the TCM movie database and found this documentary--it was done in '71 and directed by someone name Denis Sanders--I also saw the one you mentioned done by Peter Bogdonovitch (sp?) and it sounds as if it may have some similar aspects to this one--but the one I saw is strictly the 4 men mentioned with no other interviewers or narrators. It's sounds like it was more "personal" because Duke and the other men sort of sit around and "joke" with Ford while they are talking. And it's one on one because they each take turns--I don't think there are any sequences when it is the four of them together--might be wrong--but that's what I'm remembering anyway.

 

Message was edited by: rohanaka

[MissGoddess]

Hello, Kathy! Beleive it or not I have never seen "The American West of John Ford" though

I have read about it. It's great to know it's out there---I will look online for that set of JW films

just to get that documentary.

 

SPOILERS AHEAD

 

I just got home from seeing *My Darling Clementine* at Lincoln Center (my second time

seeing it on the big screen). This time I tried not to get all weepy and involved in the story

and just pay attention to how it's shot. And this time I also paid attention to the shootout

scene more closely than I have in the past and yes, it's very much more interesting in its

execution than I had previously credited it. It is over fairly quickly so I never observed many

details, there are quite a different number of camera set ups and this time I noticed that

Earp (or someone) apparently strategized the whole approach in great detail. I mean, I never

noticed before that all the men wore dark suits and covered any parts of their throat where

white might show and that two of the men (Russell Simpson and the Mayor) walked down

the street halfway with Wyatt so as to appear to the Clantons to be Doc Holliday and Morg

Earp, who in fact were creeping around the rear or side, I think, of the corral where the

Clantons were positioned. I also noticed that initially Simpson and the Mayor's shotguns

were loaded but before leaving Wyatt emptied their shells. I didn't understand why but I

guess it was so the two men would not be tempted to shoot it out with the others and

possbily get killed or get the Earps killed. All that strategizing, and then taking advantage

of that coach roaring through was so well planned I can believe Earp would have made

quite a field marshall.

 

Where the "legendary" aspects of the shootout come to play are in the results, I think. Doc

was not killed at that time, he died a few months later. So while the manner of the shootout

may have been according to Earp, the results were dramatized.

 

Ford said Wyatt Earp was a rather solemn man in demeanor. I could see some of that in Fonda's portrayal, though he is warm and has a great sense of humor. I just love him in this role. In fact,

most of my favorite Fonda characters are in John Ford movies.

 

It's so cute that this man who was so unafraid of the meanest outlaw looks about ready to

turn green at the effort of asking Clementine to dance.

 

What else did I notice this time? Oh yes! I thought this was touching, when the men come

back to camp and find James dead on the ground in the rain, Wyatt, while kneeling over

the boy, shields his face from the rain with his hand. I thought that small gesture was so

poignant.

 

I'm liking Cathy Downs' character of Clementine more and more each time.

 

The cinematography is just so awesome on the big screen. I never realized how many rather

close shots there are in it for a Ford film.

[rohanaka]

I really need to see this movie again...it has been a VERY long time for me. I can't even remember HOW long. I would like to see it now in the light of all the new info and many conversations I've had here and read on this topic since I came back on this site this summer.

 

Wow...My Darling Clementine at Lincoln Center.... What a treat! I think that would be one aspect of New York life that would be very much to my liking. (I never really considered those kind of pluses when I think of big city life) :-)

 

If you do get a copy of the documentary--hope it is a better one than I have--the sound and the picture were both very "bargain bin" but still the content was great. :-)

[Film_Fatale]

Approximately how big is that auditorium, Miss G?

[rohanaka]

stick-insect

 

Well--at least this way no one will ever think we disappeared if we turn sideways. :-)

[JackFavell]

I was watching *The Fugitive* but I fell asleep- luckily I taped it, but I discovered this morning that my husband reset the clock on the DVR and I missed about one minute on the end of *Saratoga Trunk*... I am wondering if this happened to "The Fugitive" as well....I would hate to miss the very end.

 

I, too, was noticing the lovely clippity clop sound, and Armendariz's charisma. I don't think I was quite in the right frame of mind to enjoy this movie last night, though. Delores Del Rio's perfectly penciled eyebrows set me off first.... then the musical score that seemed to harangue me at every turn,. I kept having to turn the sound down, then back up to hear the dialogue.....so I willed myself to fall sleep. I will wait till school starts to watch when I am completely alone. Maybe I can appreciate the movie better when I don't have to turn the sound down so far because family is sleeping....

 

I am also taping *Rage in Heaven* today so I can see Uncle Neddy as a good guy. It's funny, because, reading the description at the TCM database, I would have thought the role of Philip was tailor made for Sanders.... of course I'm sure Robert Montgomery will be wonderful, anyway.... I wouldn't mind being fought over by those two.

[MissGoddess]

You missed the last minute of Saratoga Trunk!!!!? That's criminal! I just love that movie,

it's one of my favorite with Gary. It's very sexy.

 

I am also taping Rage in Heaven today so I can see Uncle Neddy as a good guy. It's funny, because, reading the description at the TCM database, I would have thought the role of Philip was tailor made for Sanders.... of course I'm sure Robert Montgomery will be wonderful, anyway.... I wouldn't mind being fought over by those two.

 

Uncle Neddy SHOULD have played that role because Montgomery was asleep at his post. He

was PO'd at the time with MGM and "punished" them and himself by not putting much effort

into his performance, according to some accounts. He's not bad but his work lacks his customary

energy and it tells. Also, there is no chemistry between him and Ingrid. I'll be interested in

hearing what you think of it (and The Fugitive).

[JackFavell]

Luckily, I watched Saratoga Trunk at the same time I was taping it- My daughter was playing in the dining room, so I got to watch. My tape cut out just as Gary opened one eye from under the bandages, so it was really not so bad. I was more worried for Cupidon anyway.

 

I saw this movie years ago, but I read the book first. I loved the book so much that I went on a Ferber binge and read everything by her (except Cimarron, I think). None of the books came close to the enjoyment I got out of Saratoga Trunk. So Big was the last I read, and the book just stops.... leaves you hanging high and dry. I actually thought my book had been tampered with, so I got another copy to see, and that is just how the story ends. I got mad and didn't read any more Ferber.

[MissGoddess]

I finished reading a book of Howard Hawks interviews, a different collection than the one I had

from long ago and which had been my introduction to his personality (I subsequently read a

couple more, including The Grey Fox of Hollywood and a book by one of his ex-wives). I

thought I would share this account, funny and touching, of his last time with his good friend and

colleague (take note, CoopfanDan):

 

Well, Ford and I I guess were the only people that worked with Wayne that he didn't want to

know what the story was or he didn't want to see the script---he just said, "When do we

start?"...And of course he adored Ford. As a matter of fact, Ford came down here (Palm

Springs area) to die. And I used to stop in at his house and have a drink on the way to playing

golf. One day I went in and he was laughing like hell, and I said "What are ya laughing about?"

and he said "I was just remembering all of the things I've stolen from you." I said, "I'll make ya any

kind of a bet that I've stolen more. Hell, you'd be dead before you'd even find out." And one day---

he was reallly laughing---he said, "I just thought of the best thing I ever stole from you. I had just

a fair-to-middling picture up for an Academy Award (How Green Was My Valley) and you had

a real good one (Sergeant York) and I beat ya out of it!" And when I went over to see him and he

said goodbye to me about six times, I knew that something was happening and I phoned Wayne

and I said, "You better get down here and see Pappy. If I were you, I'd fly down." he came

down and he saw him just two or three hours before he died.

 

My opinion was that he was the best director in the picture business. It was strange because we

were both very pelased that the other one would steal from him. We didn't have any feeling of

jealousy or anything like that.

 

...Every time I made a picture with Wayne, Ford used to come down and stay with us on location,

watching. And I'd say, "Can't you wait to see it to steal something from it?" Howard

Hawks: Interviews, University Press of Mississippi)

 

[rohanaka]

Wow, what a touching account of his relationship with Ford...I think you can tell alot about someone by the way they are spoken of after they are gone. Everybody wants to speak well of the dead...and even if you don't like somebody, you can usually find something polite to say. But when you hear so many of these personal accounts of moments between friends as I have seen and read about Ford on this site (and I am sure I've only seen a few of the whole of what is out there) that really says something for who he must have been as an individual.

[MissGoddess]

Hi Kathy,

 

I love reading the accounts of people who knew him personally and/or worked with him

because they are almost always amusing. Quite a number of them are about how, umm,

shall we say naughty he could be and about his notorious cantankerousness but it's

amazing to me how few people who felt the brunt of his wrath seemed to be deterred from

working with him or even to resent it. A few most certainly did resent him (Walter

Brennan is a notable example, he refused ever to work for him again after Clementine,

more's the pity) but by and large he managed to draw a great deal not only of loyalty towards

himself but downright affection. I think it has to do with the sort of person you are deep down,

what you're really made of. Henry Fonda is probably the most extraordinary example in this

regard because they were very close, almost as close as Wayne would be to the old man,

and had such a dramatic rupture during filming of *Mister Roberts* (they came to blows). Despite

this, within a decade, maybe much less, they reconciled and Fonda visited Ford before he died.

 

I recommend reading the Hawks interviews just for fun because he's a good storyteller and

he has a strong, humorous personality just as you'd imagine from his characters in his

movies.

 

I find reading about directors so much more interesting than actors. Yes I know that's

heresy coming from ME but it's true, and it's very simple, really, the reason WHY: these

men were STORY TELLERS. That makes them entertaining within themselves. Unless

you get an actor whose a good story teller, and they're rare, it can be less satisfying reading.

The exceptions to me are David Niven and Errol Flynn who were excellent raconteurs. Or

John Barrymore, who was such an entertaining subject whether he'd been an actor or not.

[rohanaka]

find reading about directors so much more interesting than actors. Yes I know that's

heresy coming from ME but it's true

 

Actually not so surprising...and it shows by how well you know your subject--from what I've read of your thoughts and comments. If someone were to ask me--which do you think April would rather read about....I would likely have guessed the same as your answer.... :-)