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America's Gun Culture...


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1 hour ago, hamradio said:

Criminals will ALWAYS have guns.  No amount of gun control will stop it.

But it will limit the number of innocent people they kill with them.  

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1 hour ago, hamradio said:

Criminals will ALWAYS have guns.  No amount of gun control will stop it.

True, with one minor change to your post.

In America, criminals will ALWAYS have guns.  No amount of gun control will stop it.

It's not true in most other so-called civilized countries on the planet.

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3 hours ago, ElCid said:

But it will limit the number of innocent people they kill with them.  

What's confusing.  Fewer guns, less deadly guns, fewer people carrying guns, fewer places that guns are allowed and there would be fewer deaths.

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3 hours ago, txfilmfan said:

True, with one minor change to your post.

In America, criminals will ALWAYS have guns.  No amount of gun control will stop it.

It's not true in most other so-called civilized countries on the planet.

Criminals have guns in ALL nations of the world.  Just that fewer of them do and the guns they have are usually less deadly.

And appears you are saying that gun control (restrictions) is more successful in civilized countries of the world?

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1 hour ago, ElCid said:

Criminals have guns in ALL nations of the world.  Just that fewer of them do and the guns they have are usually less deadly.

And appears you are saying that gun control (restrictions) is more successful in civilized countries of the world?

I'm saying that we are third-world status when it comes to gun violence.  Why people are allowed to buy and operate a lethal weapon with no training is beyond my understanding.

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13 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:

I'm saying that we are third-world status when it comes to gun violence.  Why people are allowed to buy and operate a lethal weapon with no training is beyond my understanding.

While I agree with the first sentence,  the second sentences appears to imply that there would be a lot less gun violence in the USA if gun training was mandatory.

Is that what you meant to imply?     I don't think that would help much since the main issue is just too many guns in too many homes.      E.g. if I'm a criminal and I need a gun all I have to do is break into 5 or so homes before I find one  (depending on the state).    In Britain or Japan etc...  I might have to break into 150 homes before I found a gun.

 

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1 minute ago, JamesJazGuitar said:

While I agree with the first sentence,  the second sentences appears to imply that there would be a lot less gun violence in the USA if gun training was mandatory.

Is that what you meant to imply?     I don't think that would help much since the main issue is just too many guns in too many homes.      E.g. if I'm a criminal and I need a gun all I have to do is break into 5 or so homes before I find one  (depending on the state).    In Britain or Japan etc...  I might have to break into 150 homes before I found a gun.

 

No, that wasn't my intent.   We're past the point of trying to curb the number of guns available.   The intent was that even common-sense measures, like training and licensing seems to escape many of our state legislators.

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50 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:

No, that wasn't my intent.   We're past the point of trying to curb the number of guns available.   The intent was that even common-sense measures, like training and licensing seems to escape many of our state legislators.

If gun training  wouldn't have much of  an impact why should state legislators push such measures.   Wouldn't doing so be lacking common-sense?

Hey,  I'm not a gun owner and I live in CA which has the strongest gun laws in the nation,  so I'm not opposed to them.      But if such measures don't reduce gun violence enough to make them worthwhile I don't see what is gained by others states pushing such measures.      (so to me the debate is if there are measures that can make enough of an impact).

 

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1 hour ago, JamesJazGuitar said:

If gun training  wouldn't have much of  an impact why should state legislators push such measures.   Wouldn't doing so be lacking common-sense?

Hey,  I'm not a gun owner and I live in CA which has the strongest gun laws in the nation,  so I'm not opposed to them.      But if such measures don't reduce gun violence enough to make them worthwhile I don't see what is gained by others states pushing such measures.      (so to me the debate is if there are measures that can make enough of an impact).

 

sounds like some folks reaction to climate change........

'it's always been that way.......there's nothing we can do to effectively change things.........

so why bother doing ANYthing at all? '

:unsure:

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33 minutes ago, mr6666 said:

sounds like some folks reaction to climate change........

'it's always been that way.......there's nothing we can do to effectively change things.........

so why bother doing ANYthing at all? '

:unsure:

BS.   Climate change can be addressed and there are many changes that could be made to reduce potential future harm  but with gun violence in the USA with the sheer amount of guns already out there:    Sorry,  I just don't see where more gun-control laws (like the ones CA already has) will make much of a difference. 

But hey,  if you know of some, I'm open to them (expect CA already has the strongest gun laws in the nations so it would not apply to my state anyhow).      One has to be open enough to understand little beyond the government taking guns away and outlawing the sales of bullets will likely have much of an impact.    But again,  if you have any actual measures that you believe would have an impact (say reduce gun violence by 10% or more),   tell us what they are.

 

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always seem to be going over the same ground............

 

The 3 Gun-Control Laws That Work Best in the U.S.

States with stricter gun-control laws have fewer homicides, especially when they’re used in combination,

 

"......The study tracks the effects of the 10 gun laws below on gun deaths between 1991 and 2016, while controlling for factors like gun ownership, the overall violent-crime rate (excluding homicide), alcohol use, unemployment, poverty rate, and density (at the state level), all of which affect the rate of gun deaths.

State firearm laws (based on Siegel et al.)

 

 

 

Law Description
Universal background checks

Background checks conducted through permit requirement for all firearm sales or through required background checks for all sales.

Violent misdemeanor prohibiting for handgun possession

Handgun possession is not allowed for people who have committed a violent misdemeanor.

Age 21 limit for handgun possession

No possession of handguns allowed until age 21.

Law provides no discretion to law enforcement in deciding whether to grant a concealed-carry permit. In other words, a permit must be issued unless the applicant meets pre-established disqualifying criteria.

Trafficking prohibited

No one is allowed to purchase a firearm with the intent of reselling to another person who is prohibited from buying or possessing one.

Junk-gun ban

Law prohibits the sale of handguns that fail to meet certain safety requirements. In other words, a ban on guns sometimes called “Saturday night specials.”

Stand-your-ground law

Use of deadly force is allowed to be a first resort if you’re threatened in a public space in which you have the right to be present.

Assault-weapons ban Ban on sale of assault weapons beyond just assault pistols.

 

Large-capacity ammunition magazine ban

Ban on sale of large-capacity magazines beyond just ammunition for pistols.
*May-issue law (included in study’s supplemental policy brief) Police have discretion in issuing concealed-carry permits (as opposed to “shall-issue” laws)
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It’s not just that gun control works—and it does, according to the study—it’s that particular kinds of gun-control measures are significantly more effective than others.

In fact, three types of restrictions are most effective, individually and in combination, in reducing the overall homicide rate.

They are: universal background checks, bans on violent offenders purchasing guns, and “may-issue” laws (which give police discretion in issuing concealed-carry permits)......."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-05/the-3-gun-control-laws-that-work-best-in-the-u-s

:unsure:

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15 hours ago, txfilmfan said:

I'm saying that we are third-world status when it comes to gun violence.  Why people are allowed to buy and operate a lethal weapon with no training is beyond my understanding.

I read your responses to James on this, but wanted to comment that I do not believe training will accomplish very much.  S.C. just passed an open carry law and barely included a minimal requirement for training.  Within the next couple of sessions, that requirement will probably be eliminated.  Concealed Weapons Permit also requires training.

Personally I agree that training and licensing should be required for everyone who carries a gun outside their own home.  Wouldn't hurt for everybody to have training, but that may be too much of a stretch.

The laws cited above appear to be good and reasonable, but still the types of weapons and ammunition being allowed should be far more restrictive.  

It is the easy availability of weapons and highly lethal weapons and ammunition that is the major problem.

 

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Another problem with gun control. The street next to mine. A woman was missing. Her handyman had a criminal record. There was a gun in his house but it was belonged to the girlfriend, who didn't have a record.Another problem is when the owner of the gun dies, it usually is given to someone else. There's no law tracking it.

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