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Charles Manson is dead. At last.


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For anyone who was aware of things at the time of the horrific killings inspired and directed by this monster, an undeniable psychic burden, despite imprisonment and impossibility of parole, has been lifted.  But I post here not to bury him, or ruminate on times past, but to muse on the effect on movies.  Most directly it resulted in the TV movie Helter Skelter (1976), a generally admired dramatization of Vincent Bugliosi's (by himself) book of the trials he conducted.  I've never seen it.  There was another TV movie/series pilot, undoubtedly influenced by the events, that actually came out earlier, The Law, in 1974.  It starred Judd Hirsch, and I remember liking it.  Nothing else comes to mind.  I can't imagine something that so traumatized and preoccupied the public conscience not having a profound resonance in movies.  But I guess it's more indirect.  The unfortunate identification of Manson and his group with the counterculture movement of the Sixties has been cited as contributing to it's end.  The directors who came to prominence in the Seventies, a decade of experiment and innovation in American movies, couldn't have been immune from it's influence.  I'm wondering how to identify it.

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1 hour ago, slaytonf said:

For anyone who was aware of things at the time of the horrific killings inspired and directed by this monster, an undeniable psychic burden, despite imprisonment and impossibility of parole, has been lifted.  But I post here not to bury him, or ruminate on times past, but to muse on the effect on movies.  Most directly it resulted in the TV movie Helter Skelter (1976), a generally admired dramatization of Vincent Bugliosi's (by himself) book of the trials he conducted.  I've never seen it.  There was another TV movie/series pilot, undoubtedly influenced by the events, that actually came out earlier, The Law, in 1974.  It starred Judd Hirsch, and I remember liking it.  Nothing else comes to mind.  

Well, there were several "killer Hippie" movies, such as I Drink Your Blood, or Sweet Savior with Troy Donahue as a Manson-like cult leader. There have been a few other low-budget Manson flicks, like Jim Van Bebber's The Manson Family, and another TV version of Helter Skelter in 2004, with Jeremy Davies very good as Manson. NBC just had a TV series (2015-2016) titled Aquarius that featured Manson and his cohorts as characters. And Quentin Tarantino's next film will be set during the Manson time period. It was originally reported that the film would about Manson, but it's been clarified as being a background component of a separate story.

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2 hours ago, slaytonf said:

For anyone who was aware of things at the time of the horrific killings inspired and directed by this monster, an undeniable psychic burden, despite imprisonment and impossibility of parole, has been lifted.  But I post here not to bury him, or ruminate on times past, but to muse on the effect on movies.  Most directly it resulted in the TV movie Helter Skelter (1976), a generally admired dramatization of Vincent Bugliosi's (by himself) book of the trials he conducted.  I've never seen it.  There was another TV movie/series pilot, undoubtedly influenced by the events, that actually came out earlier, The Law, in 1974.  It starred Judd Hirsch, and I remember liking it.  Nothing else comes to mind.  I can't imagine something that so traumatized and preoccupied the public conscience not having a profound resonance in movies.  But I guess it's more indirect.  The unfortunate identification of Manson and his group with the counterculture movement of the Sixties has been cited as contributing to it's end.  The directors who came to prominence in the Seventies, a decade of experiment and innovation in American movies, couldn't have been immune from it's influence.  I'm wondering how to identify it.

slayton, after what appeared to be his star-making turn as Manson in this 1976 TV miniseries, and then some four years later co-starring with Peter O'Toole in the quirky but fascinating feature film The Stuntman (1980), I thought actor Steve Railsback would become a major star of the 1980s, but somehow his career never took off.

(...I remember being very impressed with his turn as Manson...he was especially able to believably mimic those crazy/scary eyes of Manson's, as I recall)

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Glad to find someone else that was impressed with Railsback and disappointed his career didn't take off big time after that outstanding performance.  And I too, thought him great in THE STUNT MAN and also thought the movie was fascinating.

I also liked THE LAW with Judd Hirsch but never felt it had any connection with the story surrounding Manson's madness.

 

Sepiatone

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2 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

Glad to find someone else that was impressed with Railsback and disappointed his career didn't take off big time after that outstanding performance.  And I too, thought him great in THE STUNT MAN and also thought the movie was fascinating.

I also liked THE LAW with Judd Hirsch but never felt it had any connection with the story surrounding Manson's madness.

 

Sepiatone

the closing narration to that 1976 mini-series with Railsback hopping around in his cell chanting some gibberish should be heard by all modern day liberals.

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9 hours ago, Dargo said:

slayton, after what appeared to be his star-making turn as Manson in this 1976 TV miniseries, and then some four years later co-starring with Peter O'Toole in the quirky but fascinating feature film The Stuntman (1980), I thought actor Steve Railsback would become a major star of the 1980s, but somehow his career never took off.

(...I remember being very impressed with his turn as Manson...he was especially able to believably mimic those crazy/scary eyes of Manson's, as I recall)

I like Railsback, as well. I think his slightly deranged appearance, even when playing normal people, may have held him back. While his career never went "A-list", he still did some more interesting work. He starred in the cult-favorite sci-fi freakout Lifeforce, had a memorable role on The X-Files, and was very good as notorious killer Ed Gein in the movie of the same name.

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manson could not have undergone any reformation in prison, he was already too far gone because he fried his cookies with hard drugs long before his arrest and conviction. by his own drug use he rendered himself the soulless human shell that he was.

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14 hours ago, LawrenceA said:

I like Railsback, as well. I think his slightly deranged appearance, even when playing normal people, may have held him back. While his career never went "A-list", he still did some more interesting work. He starred in the cult-favorite sci-fi freakout Lifeforce, had a memorable role on The X-Files, and was very good as notorious killer Ed Gein in the movie of the same name.

Yeah Lawrence, I noticed those credits listed for him while perusing his IMDb page last night and after I posted my reply to slayton.

(...still though, I always wondered if perhaps he, Michael Parks and Paul Le Mat ever got together and compared notes over a beer or two, if ya know what I mean?!) ;)

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1 hour ago, Mario500 said:

I wonder what the creator of this discussion meant by the words "at last"?

Well Mario, I doubt slayton had a certain 1960 Etta James hit recording in mind when he said that, dude!

(...or even the early-'40s Glenn Miller original recording, for that matter) ;)

 

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28 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

manson could not have undergone any reformation in prison, he was already too far gone because he fried his cookies with hard drugs long before his arrest and conviction. by his own drug use he rendered himself the soulless human shell that he was.

Coupled with that, at his last parole hearing in 2012, he was found to be manipulative, controlling, and suffering from schizophrenia and paranoid delusional.

From the replies I got from the OT forum regarding another topic, there are those here that thinks he should be forgiven and redeemed.

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3 minutes ago, hamradio said:

Coupled with that, at his last parole hearing in 2012, he was found to be manipulative, controlling, and suffering from schizophrenia and paranoid delusional.

From the replies I got from the OT forum regarding another topic, there are those here that thinks he should be forgiven and redeemed.

(...sorry folks, but I JUST can't resist posting the following here after reading this...)

Guess you haven't heard that just before he died, Charlie asked Jesus to forgive him for all his sins, ham.

And so NOW, at least according to what I've heard all of my life, Charlie has wormed his way into Heaven.

(...and so I ask...if JESUS can forgive the SOB, can WE do less than THAT, ham ol' boy???)

LOL

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

(...sorry folks, but I JUST can't resist posting the following here after reading this...)

Guess you haven't heard that just before he died, Charlie asked Jesus to forgive him for all his sins, ham.

And so NOW, at least according to what I've heard all of my life, Charlie has wormed his way into Heaven.

(...and so I ask...if JESUS can forgive the SOB, can WE do less than THAT, ham ol' boy???)

LOL

If so then that's wonderful but can we believe him, was he sincere (only God knows for sure)?  Yes even the WORST of sins can be forgiven by Christ.

By the way asking Jesus for forgiveness does not exempt one from punishment by the court of law which will not (regarding other people.)

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11 hours ago, hamradio said:

If so then that's wonderful but can we believe him, was he sincere (only God knows for sure)?  Yes even the WORST of sins can be forgiven by Christ.

By the way asking Jesus for forgiveness does not exempt one from punishment by the court of law which will not (regarding other people.)

Hmmmm...now THAT sounds suspiciously like a concept which has seemed under fire of late, ham.

But then again and because this thread isn't in that "other forum" around here, what say we steer clear from the subject of the separation of Church and State.

(...and 'cause I think by now you know how I feel about THAT subject, doncha?!)

;)

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11 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

manson could not have undergone any reformation in prison, he was already too far gone because he fried his cookies with hard drugs long before his arrest and conviction. by his own drug use he rendered himself the soulless human shell that he was.

 

11 hours ago, hamradio said:

Coupled with that, at his last parole hearing in 2012, he was found to be manipulative, controlling, and suffering from schizophrenia and paranoid delusional.

From the replies I got from the OT forum regarding another topic, there are those here that thinks he should be forgiven and redeemed.

Drugs aren't necessary to create a monster.  I hesitate to tread into psychoanalysis, but I will say it appears Manson was a person totally without a conscience.  One of the articles about him excerpts an interview of him.  In response to a question about wether he cared about what he was responsible for, he answered something like, "Care?  What's that?"

14 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

I also liked THE LAW with Judd Hirsch but never felt it had any connection with the story surrounding Manson's madness.

Well, it's a long time since I saw it.  I don't remember what made me make the association.  But I am glad I'm not the only one who remembers it, and thinks well of it.

13 hours ago, Mario500 said:

I wonder what the creator of this discussion meant by the words "at last"?

Pretty much what you might think.  He was a long time going about dying.  If my proposition about the psychic burden of his continued existence is true, then his death at long last would bring a welcome relief.  The only other notorious personage I can think of who went about taking so long to die is Francisco Franco, who as far as I know is still dead.  My wish is for him to stay dead a good long time.

11 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

the closing narration to that 1976 mini-series with Railsback hopping around in his cell chanting some gibberish should be heard by all modern day liberals.

Always predictably tiresome.

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1 hour ago, slaytonf said:

Yes, yes, yes.  Just the movies.

Okay then, and if you insist slayton, how about Inherit the Wind ???

LOL

(...sorry, couldn't resist...okay okay, and NOW back to movies about CHARLIE...and we AIN'T talkin' 'bout the one starring Cliff Robertson here, folks...and besides, THAT one is spelled differently) ;)

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I saw that well-made '76 tv movie (***-out of 4 stars) a few times over the years. & like I mentioned, Railsback was perfecto in the infamous role, but given his appearance,etc it's obvious why he has always had trouble getting top roles

 

He even played "Ed Gein" in a rarely known or seen film about what he did in the 1950's

 

BUT, WHOP ELSE SAW THE GREAT (4 styars!) 1980 "THE STUNTMAN?"

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39 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Okay then, and if you insist slayton, how about Inherit the Wind ???

LOL

(...sorry, couldn't resist...okay okay, and NOW back to movies about CHARLIE...and we AIN'T talkin' 'bout the one starring Cliff Robertson here, folks...and besides, THAT one is spelled differently) ;)

WHAT IN THE... IS THIS ABOUT THE MAGNIFICENT & ALL-TIMER COURTROOM DRAMA "INHERIT THE WIND" (UA_)-(though shot at Universal Studios)???

 

(TRIVIA: only a couple yrs back *Shirley MacLaine-(l934-) was a guest again on Larry King-(l933-) & I think-(didn't hear it all) she pointed to it, *"Lawrence of Arabia" & 1 or 2 more pictures as her ultimate motion pictures!!!

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8 hours ago, slaytonf said:

Pretty much what you might think.  He was a long time going about dying.  If my proposition about the psychic burden of his continued existence is true, then his death at long last would bring a welcome relief.  The only other notorious personage I can think of who went about taking so long to die is Francisco Franco, who as far as I know is still dead.  My wish is for him to stay dead a good long time.

Always predictably tiresome.

Could you explain what you had meant by your wish and your using of the phrase "welcome relief"?

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26 minutes ago, Mario500 said:

Could you explain what you had meant by your wish and your using of the phrase "welcome relief"?

I think he was saying death is preferable to 50 years of solitary confinement. 

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9 hours ago, slaytonf said:

 

Drugs aren't necessary to create a monster.  I hesitate to tread into psychoanalysis, but I will say it appears Manson was a person totally without a conscience.  One of the articles about him excerpts an interview of him.  In response to a question about wether he cared about what he was responsible for, he answered something like, "Care?  What's that?"

Well, it's a long time since I saw it.  I don't remember what made me make the association.  But I am glad I'm not the only one who remembers it, and thinks well of it.

Pretty much what you might think.  He was a long time going about dying.  If my proposition about the psychic burden of his continued existence is true, then his death at long last would bring a welcome relief.  The only other notorious personage I can think of who went about taking so long to die is Francisco Franco, who as far as I know is still dead.  My wish is for him to stay dead a good long time.

Always predictably tiresome.

Franco did take a while to die but other evil monsters like Kim Jong Un, Ed Kemper and the "Son of Sam" murderer are still alive so the world will probably never be fully clear of "notorious personages."

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On November 23, 2017 at 5:12 AM, Mario500 said:

Could you explain . . . . the phrase "welcome relief"?

His continued existence was a psychological burden.  Now it's gone.

On November 23, 2017 at 5:12 AM, Mario500 said:

Could you explain what you had meant by your wish. . .?

I guess you have to know about the running gag on Saturday Night Live:

 

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On November 23, 2017 at 5:43 AM, Gershwin fan said:

Franco did take a while to die but other evil monsters like Kim Jong Un, Ed Kemper and the "Son of Sam" murderer are still alive so the world will probably never be fully clear of "notorious personages."

Sad to say.  New ones keep springing up.

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