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The Honeymooners (Ralph & Norton) even funnier then Stan & 0llie?


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st of all I am positive I will get a huge backlash on this topic, but I've studied both comedic giants ever since I was about 18 & at one time Laurel and Hardy's fan club-(don't know about now though?) "Sons of the Desert" was the largest in terms on membership on this planet, no foolin'  This was in the '80's. & I joined a fairly, no, good fan club titled RALPH-("Royal Association & Preservation of the Honeymooners") they sent neat stuff & still have a bit of it, including a racoon cap! But & typically that club closed-(from NY) just as soon as "The Great  0ne: Jackie Gleason" (l9l6-87) died? Online it's hgard to find "The Lost Episode's" though? I have most buried in boxes though & all but 3 of "The Classic 39" Plus, lots of Stan & Ollie shoirts, also still buried & on VHS  L. Maltin used to show them on "Nick at Night" as for his fellow Irishmen *Art (Ed Norton) Carney-(l9l8-2003) he's as all know also an *Oscar winner 1974's "Harry & Tonto"  They weren't close pals after the show though? I know it musata hurt Jackie that he never won 1 EMMY though  Auydrey won 1 & *Carney about 3 or more in a row. My fav. "Classic 39" "Unconventional Behavior" & of Stan & Ollie "The Music Box"-(which won an *AMPAS Award for Best Comedy Short) & my fav. Laurel & Hardy feature  "Way 0ut West"-(that dance scene is just amazing, huh) 

OVERVIEW:

Jackie Gleason (John Herbert Gleason) (l9l6-l987)-(did at least garner 1 single s. actor nom as Minnesota Fats in "The Hustler" But go locate 1986's "Nothing in Common" opposite a young Hanks) & (golderby.com's main founder Tom 0'Neil was furious when they installed a lifesize statue of him & in frt of EMMY Headquarters!!!)-(his hero/idol: Oliver Hardy & Jack 0akie)-=(Jackie has one of thee biggest graves & monuments to himself-(CHECK IT OUT!) near Miami, FL. It simply says "AND AWAY WE GO"

Art Carney-(l9l8-2003)-(also deserved a 2nd *Oscar shot for '77's "The Late Show")-(*Cagney was his great friend & hero!)

Audrey Meadows-(l926-2006) Pert Kelton was the first Alice9chgose "Holy Cross, park)

& now 93yr old Joyce Randolph, who is everywhere thesedays

 

Look up their fmr fictional address online at 328 Chauncey street in Brooklyn

 

VS.

Laurel and Hardy-(*Hal Roach-(l892-2002) made them of course & think I did a pc on Culver City Studious yesterday-(PLEASE CHECK IT OUT) & Roach & The Boys also filmed a ton on it's street just outside, as did H. Lloyd)

Oliver (Norvell) Hardy-(l892-l957) For those that truly watch RALPH, one can easily see he steals much from his hero  Don't really know as much about Ollie though? He did pass away at his mother in laws home of either a massive stroke or heart attack? (Interred "Valhalla, cem.) A very southern gentlemen

Stan Laurel-(Arthur Stanley Jefferson)-(l890-l965) (obviously a "Limey" & in some very old footage you can see him in a group with *CHAPLIN!) He was first, obviously Kramden's  Ed Norton to Hardy's Stanley. A very pvt man & even had large fences installed around his residence to keep process servers out. But he caught Dick Van Dyke impersonating him on tyv & invited him over. He finally was award a special lifetime Academy award for both of them though.

 

 

(OVERVIEW) I barely cast my vote for Ralph & Norton, but make no mistake, I easily rank Stan & Ollie as cinema history's A #! all-time greatest movie duo)

 

THANK YOU

 

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I grew up watching both pairs on TV from time to time.  MeTV shows old "Honeymooners" episodes on Sundays at 11:00 pm EST.  And I try not to miss it.

Love both "duos", and it would be hard for me to choose a "better" of the two.  I've no doubt of the possibility that L&H was the impetus of the Kramden/Norton friendship, and a comic vehicle carried over to THE FLINTSTONES as well.(Fred/ as Ralph, Barney/as ED.  Even Betty and Wilma SOUNDED a bit like Alice and Trixie. ;)  )

It was the TIMES both existed in that made their comedy work.  I don't think L&H's comedy would work in Ralph and Ed's time, nor would it be possible in modern times, as the whole country's situation is vastly different then it was in the '20's and '30's.  And even Ralph and Ed's early '50's world was that different. 

Sepiatone

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Jackie Gleasaon used to say to go on vacation and get some rest he would rent out somehow or pay to  get a room at a local hospital and just got there to relax for a couple weeks. Sure he probably had his own meals shipped in since he would not have liked hopital food.

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If you're looking for TV comparisons to LAUREL ans HARDY,  DECADES recently showed episodes of an obscure syndicated TV show called "MACK AND MYER FOR HIRE"('63-'64) starring MICKY DEEMS and JOEY FAYE.  Same L&H premise, two guys always looking for some kind of work, one supposedly dumb, the other, well, not really smarter but tries to give that impression.  And in some shots, both seem to be wearing DERBY HATS, but not in every episode.  And yeah, they too, seem to muck up every job.

Sepiatone

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I'm a huge fan of both teams.  Taking a look at both - 

1)  While Jackie Gleason was a brilliant actor as Ralph Kramden, fleshing out the character as his own, he was no match for Stan Laurel, who (in addition to acting) also thought up gags, helped construct scripts, and was very much the force behind what made L&H work as a team.  You may not appreciate the L&H style of comedy, but you have to respect all that Stan did to make their stuff come alive.

2) Again, I could probably recite scripts from the Honeymooners' "Classic 39" from memory, but their repertoire was more limited.  The themes revolved around Ralph's crazy harebrained schemes, sewer jokes, the Raccoon Lodge, etc. etc.  Even the supporting players were the same, changing roles from week to week.  L&H had set "personalities", but their shorts were a lot broader in terms of range of topics.  Also, sometimes you were able to see some musical interludes, like Oliver Hardy singing (in "Pardon Us"), which didn't exist in The Honeymooners (though a much later format of this show had singing and dancing)

3) I like what Sepiatone said in his post:  "It was the TIMES both existed in that made their comedy work.  I don't think L&H's comedy would work in Ralph and Ed's time, nor would it be possible in modern times, as the whole country's situation is vastly different then it was in the '20's and '30's.  And even Ralph and Ed's early '50's world was that different." 

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Spence should be used to backlashes EVERY time he posts about his momentary brain synapses, for no reasons known to the functional outside world...  :lol:

And if YouTube had the appropriate clip from Honeymooners: the Lost Episodes, I'd be posting the specific clip here.  But as it is, you'll just have to look up 23:33 yourself, and assume it was that that set him off this time.

Now, as to whether Ralph & Ed were more directly funnier than Fred Flintstone & Barney Rubble...

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On 1/25/2018 at 8:40 AM, Sepiatone said:

Love both "duos", and it would be hard for me to choose a "better" of the two.  I've no doubt of the possibility that L&H was the impetus of the Kramden/Norton friendship, and a comic vehicle carried over to THE FLINTSTONES as well.(Fred/ as Ralph, Barney/as ED.  Even Betty and Wilma SOUNDED a bit like Alice and Trixie. ;)  )

The Flintstones was pretty unapologetic in its love for the original Honeymooners, even remaking classic episodes:

Although the Flint's "Love Letters on the Rocks" episode did a much sillier spin on the H'mooner's episode where Alice/Wilma finds one of Ralph/Fred's old love letters, and Ralph/Fred thinks Ed/Barney is the other man.  (Ralph never hired a parodic "detective Peter Gunnite" to track down the other man.  :lol: )

In one episode, Fred loses a game of Scrabble to wiseguy-newsboy Arnold:
"He kept coming up with words like 'Esoteric', and 'Polopponies'"
"That's 'Polo ponies'!"

(And then, of course, there's the Top Cat/Sgt. Bilko connection, and the Jetsons/Blondie connection, but that's for another discussion.)

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And what seemed dumb to me is I recall a lot of TV writers(critics and "experts") kept claiming there was a connection to THE FLINTSTONES and ALL IN THE FAMILY!  :o  I never saw it or thought so and always wondered how THEY found any connection.

THE JESTSONS and BLONDIE?  That's two I  never connected, but yeah.  I can see that. :)

Sepiatone

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One vote for The Honeymooners. I like Laurel and Hardy too, but the same

old tie twiddling and head scratching get old after a while. Not that Ralph

and Norton didn't have similar set pieces, but I find them funnier. Since

humor, like most other things, is a very individual taste, I can understand

people liking either one. I watched the classic 39 on YT a number of years

ago, mostly because I hadn't seen them in so many years. The visual quality

was quite good too. Maybe they're no longer on YT.

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1 hour ago, Sepiatone said:

And what seemed dumb to me is I recall a lot of TV writers(critics and "experts") kept claiming there was a connection to THE FLINTSTONES and ALL IN THE FAMILY!  :o  I never saw it or thought so and always wondered how THEY found any connection.

THE JESTSONS and BLONDIE?  That's two I  never connected, but yeah.  I can see that. :)

Sepiatone

hanna-barbera did copy All in the Family as Wait till your Father Gets Home.

 

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I wouldn't really compare The Honeymooners to Laurel and Hardy. Laurel and Hardy seem more like Abbott and Costello to me. 

I'm a big fan of The Honeymooners. Favorite episode: "A Woman's Work Is Never Done," which features Betty Garde as Thelma the Maid. Betty Garde, who stabbed Hope Emerson with a fork in Caged, is an excellent foil for Ralph. She stabs him with her barbs: Referring to Ralph and Ed, she says: "Some guest and some employer: The simp and the blimp!"

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caged-04.jpg?w=652

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

THE JESTSONS and BLONDIE?  That's two I  never connected, but yeah.  I can see that. :)

Well, you've got George running to the office, and trying not to be fired by his boss, Mr. Dithers Spacely.

That, and Penny Singleton from the original Blondie series voicing Jane.

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