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Let's confront this issue-reverse ageism on this board


Nicki82
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I don't know about you, but I feel there is a fair deal of reverse ageism on this message board. There are quiet a few posters on this board that seem to have real problems with young people in general. They tend label all young people as the same. They talk down to them, blame them for everything, and say that the young are ignorant. As a younger person I want to make it clear to them that all young people aren't the same. Just because your kids, or grandkids, or whatever don't like classic movies, or anything you like, doesn't mean that all young people are just like them, if you get to know them, you will discover that of many us younger folks have similar interests. And remember you were once young like us, so please give us some respect, if you respect us ,we (or aleast I) will respect you. And if you don't like a subject that is being disscussed, don't click on the thread, ok, do we have a deal??

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I'm curious as to what prompted this topic. Not saying it isn't justified, but as a guy who tends to visit here once a day or so, open six or ten threads and then leave, I haven't encountered much of what you obviously feel strongly about. Without asking you to name names or even threads, can you be more specific about the kinds of attitudes and statements that push your buttons as a younger person? Thank you.

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I never for once ever tried to make you younger folks or anyone out as idiots. I never deliberately called anyone anything. As for young people lack of interest in old movies; I can only go by what I see in the younger folks that I see in my world. AS a point of interest; I just got a email from a friend of mine who had read my blog and she told the story of working with a lady whose last name was Robards , She was the only one who asked if she was related to Jason Robards, and I quote from her email to me,: " Are you related to Jason Robards, the actor? Yes, she?s a daughter in law. One of his marriages was to LAUREN BACALL!!! The age group I work with?late 30?s?doesn?t remember either, not just teens who never heard of Bogie!!!! "

So don't feel put upon as only young folks under 20s don't know, theres are a great many people as old as late 30's into 40's who don't know their film history..

 

http://kenenthlawson.blogspot.com/

 

So don't feel put upon as only young folks under 20s don't know, theres are a great many people as old as late 30's into 40's who don't know their film history..

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As long as I've been coming to this forum, there have been posters complaining about how TCM is trying to get younger viewers, that they don't like it, which leads to these posters labeling all younger folks as the same, and that we don't know anything. You know what, this might give a lot of you older folks a shock but I LOVE classic movies, and the older they are the better, I also love the subject of History, and there are many other young folks just like me, and just because you don't know any, doesn't mean that they don't exist. They think all young people are the same, in that we are stupid, Now how many of you went through that stuff when you were young, I bet a whole bunch of you did, so why do you do it the younger folks now, because I'm sure you didn't enjoy it when it happen to you.

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And if you don't like a subject that is being disscussed, don't click on the thread, ok, do we have a deal??

 

I said nothing about age, just the downhill slide that this board has taken the last few months. It's hard to avoid the threads, since nearly all of them are started by a small handful (or maybe just one) of posters. Nearly all are devoid of content about movies, or are simply rehashed old threads, mostly negative. The Ignore button is useless when nearly all the threads end up blocked.

 

I wasn't kidding about TCM personnel posting here. Until a few months ago, you could count on them to post nearly every day, answering questions and even listening to suggestions. I wouldn't blame them for avoiding us. Since the great majority of old posters abandoned this place for happier climes, it's just not the same.

 

So if you're satisfied with the atmosphere, great. Many of us are not. And though I feel old as the hills, I'm in my mid-40's.

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I suddenly feel like Ludie negotiating a truce between Mother Watts and Jessie Mae in the film I just finished watching.

 

I hate to think that the youth and their elders on these Boards can't get along around here but I fear that may be happening. I am not going to try to tell anyone how to comport themselves but I will say this -

 

- if you engage in "adolescent" humor in these Forums understanding that most posters use TCM and these Forums as a refuge from such types of entertainemnt, then you were asking to be called out on it.

 

- if you make disparaging remarks about a Board Member's youth, text-style typing or - in that rare case - appearance, then you asked to be called out on it.

 

- if you extrapolate anyone's post to be repesentative of their age group, you are asking to be called out on it.

 

- if you take personal offense to a member's comments about your age group when you weren't personally mentioned, then you are asking to be called out on it.

 

- if you wouldn't make certain comments in front of your children, your parents or your grandparents then it might not be appropriate for discussion here and you are asking to be called out on it.

 

- it is likely there are members here that have fogotten more about the movies than you probably know today.

 

- it is likely there are members here because their peers "don't get it" while the other members here do.

 

Age is only a number. It is silly to dismiss all movies that were created after the Studio era and it is just as silly to "dismiss" board members created after that era too.

 

I nvever thought a generational divide would develop on these Forums but I guess it has happened. Hopefully it won't erode into a chasm as wide as the Grand Canyon - because while the Grand Canyon is a beautiful sight, I fear this could get ugly.

 

A word to the wise - TCM won't tolerate personal attacks against anyone. Choose your words wisely.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

 

Message was edited by: hlywdkjk

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"I'm curious as to what prompted this topic." - Erebus

 

I used the term "reverse ageism" recently to describe the disappointment some members expressed upon learning that Rose McGowan was named as the new co-host of "The Essentials" series. Most of the negative comments were of the knee-jerk variety using her age as the sole reason for their dissatisfaction in the choice.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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There are a few fundamental flaws to your argument involving both content and presentation.

 

Firstly, when making such accusations it is advisable to offer some examples or cite some sources that support your contention.

 

Secondly, NEVER NEVER NEVER counter a ?Grand Generalization? (about young people in this case) with a ?Grand Generalization? (about the posters on the TCM message boards).

 

In a public forum such as this, there will always be extremes of opinion, and doubtlessly there are a few posters who do display these tendencies. However, I have been a regular visitor and contributor to the TCM message boards for many years, and have found in ?General? that the regular posters here have been very welcoming and encouraging to young people. If you are upset about a lack of response to your posts, I must say that not all of my posts get responded to, but some do.

 

As for the matter of respect, I take the Will Rogers point-of-view, I will give you my respect and trust until you do something to blow it.

 

So grow a thick skin, stop pouting, ignore the fools, and start posting.

 

Good luck and Regards

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"Old **** suck" - dsclassic

 

Then why hang around a forum that is likely to attract a great number of them? And then insult them to boot?

 

Personally, I like the bumper sticker on a neighbor's car much better - "Mean People Suck".

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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There's been a snafu somewhere. I've been getting tons of e-mails that have nothing to do with my reply. I was expressing my hope that Richard Widmark would be honored with a Lifetime Achievement Award for his considtently solid performances throughout a long, admired career, He turned 93 on Dec. 26th. There are also many others who deserve the honor (Angela Lansbury, for one) So far I have received over 30 e-mails that make no sense to me. So I delete and occasionally write lines like these. I was so hoping to join fellow vintage film fans in exchanging views. I'll keep trying. I became hooked in 1930, or 1929, seeing Marilyn Miller (Ziegfeld star) in two films with music by Jerome Kern; Walter Huston as Abraham Lincoln and a mystery that gave me nightmares for weeks afterwards, THE CAT CREEPS (renamed later as THE CAT AND THE CANARY), the old chestnut of assorted family members gathered together on a "dark and stormy night" in a creepy old mansion to hear the reading of a will; and the beneficiary is menaced throughout the film by sliding panels, etc. Reputable cast of Helen Twelvetrees, Neil Hamilton, Lilyn Tashman, possibly David Manners (DRACULA).

 

Madeleine 2322

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I would like to address one aspect mentioned in this discussion - the surprise expressed by some of you that younger people do not recognize past film stars like Bogart. Well, this has always occurred. Past stars, music and film, fade from memory after their time. I'm a boomer and see a lot of head shaking when teenagers don't know who the Beatles were. You may not know that Schubert and Beethoven were virtually forgotten until Schnabel revived them in the '20s and '30s, the same wtih Bach until Stokowski came along. So why should past film or film stars be any different? The best thing that ever happened to old movies is that TCM has come along and bring these movies before the public again. Not to mention that a lot of these films are clearly superior to most anything made today.

 

--

Terry Wallace

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Patful - good point. I know I haven't been posting as much lately, but it's just a matter of being busy and the holidays and a bunch of other excuses. But I will try to be more active on the boards. I definitely try to look at them at least a couple of times a day and I always want to steal ideas from the programming challenges.

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Over the course of the last several years members of this board have participated in a contest called "The Programming Challenge." The most recently completed was number 8 and ended around Thanksgiving.

 

This is a self serving contest where the participants schedule a week of "programming" on TCM. Other board members then vote on the schedule they like best. The winner gets to host the next contest. Kyle in Hollywood was the recent host and this contest was won by "lzcutter."

 

"tcmprogrammr" has, on occasion, and to our delight, used ideas submitted in the challenges by the participants. It has also been fun for us who played to look at future schedules to see if we have been a source of inspiration.

 

I think that one or two of mine have been used. Kyle certainly has a better idea as to what has been used but we are thrilled when they have been.

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Quite true... I remember 40 years ago I was just out of the service and had a conversation with my estranged father reguarding "beautiful women in the movies". Many of the names he brought up, I had NO idea of who he was talking about. Veronica Lake ??? Norma Shearer ?? And I had no inkling of Ann Harding untill I watched "Double Harness" on TCM. I did get the attention of my son and stepsons (ages 30 to late 40s) when I played "Hell's Angels" and they saw Jean Harlow. (Eyes glazed and drool running down their chins is reasonably accurate ) for the first time.....

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I?ve only posted to these boards since June of ?06, and not very frequently, so I?m really not a part of the regular posting community. For me, these boards have been a learning experience. I just turned 76 and have loved movies as long as I can remember. On reading the fascinating insights that have been posted by the veterans of these boards, I realize there are so many aspects of film I am not aware of, and there are so many knowledgeable posters out there.

 

However, lately I?ve noticed a difference. So I was pleased to see this thread, which indicates that I am not alone in recognizing that there has been a change. I find that in surfing the threads, many of them have to do with topics that don?t get into the content and nature of movies. In fact many of them seem to border on the juvenile. And it seems to me that I find fewer of those veteran posters, like yourself, who would take the time to really expound in depth on the nature and character of the films and the actors.

 

And that doesn?t necessarily mean these lesser posts are submitted by younger people. Please understand, I think it?s great that younger people post on these boards. In fact I?m surprised that so many of them are into classic movies. I try to foster this by introducing my grandchildren to them, and so far, very successfully. I have to chuckle when my grandchildren say to their friends, ?Have you ever seen the real Robin Hood??

 

I?ll keep searching threads as I?m sure there will always be those of substance; it just takes a little longer to find them.

 

--Gus Cerini

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Hello again, Kyle,

 

I've been spending the last few days deleting the messages that are still coming nonstop. I finally found the webpage. I clicked on the Control Panel link and clicked on the Watches, but I have no idea if that removed them. I relayed your instructions to a mentor friend, who will try them tonight at her home. I would love to re-post my message as a new thread, but I'm hazy as to its contents. I wrote several different messages in different places. After I mentioned my choice of Richard Widmark (hard choice between him and Angela Lansbury, and others), did I launch, irrelevantly, into Wyler's THE LETTER? Henry Hathaway? Gloria Stuart, favorite film score composers? I could never run out of things to say on any number of film-related topics. Do I enter my messages under "General Discussion"? I imagine I'll find plenty of messages to provoke replies. When I first enrolled months back, I was outraged by one fellow's diatribe on THE FOUNTAINHEAD. Not because he hated it but because he ranted about a scenario that bore little resemblance to the movie. He seemed not to understand anything he saw and took off on a tear like some spoiled kid who didn't get the kind of pricey gift he wanted. (I didn't send the message. Waste of time.) I found Ayn Rand's philosophy laid on with too heavy a hand, too preachy for my sensibilities and for the artistic quality of the film.. Can't you see John Ford running his blue or red pencil through pages of that script, which he was alleged to have done frequently. And Wyler as well.

 

To repoeat, I'm constantly amazed, while glancing at e-mails I'm deleting, at the members' knowledge of obscure, little known film facts and history. Intimidating, and my friends think I'm a walking repository of film history!

 

Madeleine 2322

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When we wuz growin up they said "Never trust anybody over 30"

 

Now its "Never trust anybody under 30"

 

Back then we had to pay our dues. No easy way of gettin movies. No vhs/dvd....... no video taping at all! You had to watch a movie when THEY said if you wanted to see it. You had to tailor your schedule around THEIR schedule. & you had to remember everything. Your memory is a great treasure. Everybody had to remember everything they thought was important. Its called payin yer dues. talk is cheap. get in line, baby.

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I would like to thank everyone for their opinions, but can some one please explain to me how TCM's Guest Programmer Contest was "dumbed down" for younger folks because some of those interviewed were young?? I mean this is an example of what I was talking about. I watched some of those interviews,not all of them, but some, and I found those who I watched , knew what they were talking about. All of you just said its great that younger folks are into classic movies but you turn around and say that our opinion is not needed, well at least that is how it came off as in my opinion, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted, would you please explain??

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"... can some one please explain to me how TCM's Guest Programmer Contest was "dumbed down" for younger folks because some of those interviewed were young??" - Nicki82

 

I hope I am not out of bounds trying to speak for MGMMayer but what the heck. I am already in this topic pretty deep.

 

MGMMayer wrote that the promo for the Guest Programmer Contest last spring/summer was "annoying" and "MTV-like". And many people would agree with that description. (I believe he is speaking of the promo announcing the contest. And that is what I refer to myself.) It was loud, hyper-edited and populated with young faces - along with what some described as an awkward looking Robert Osborne, though I don't think that was the case myself.

 

Then there was the method of participation that some felt was skewed toward younger, more computer savvy viewers. One couldn't just send in a video tape - I don't think so anyway - and had to convert the recording to a digital format (a DVD disc) and then send it in or, as was recommended, upload it to a special AOL site. Many folks thought that was "less than fair" and gave an advantage to younger participants. And it left many "older" viewers feeling like TCM wasn't interested in their participation.

 

But I do take exception to the assertion that many of the Guest Programmers - this past November or otherwise - are recruited because they are young and attractive - unless one thinks anyone under the age for AARP is "young". I will accept the description of Rose McGowan as "young". She is definitely younger than myself. But I can't name another Guest Programmer last November of her age or distinctly younger than me. And that includes the eventual winner of the Guest Programmer Contest, Paul Aguirre. He and I are probably very close in age.

 

But I can name Gore Vidal, Jack Klugman and Jerry Stiller as Guest Programmers last November that are definitely older than I. (I am too chivalrous to guess about the age of some of November's women Guest Programmers.) So, as a whole, the event was not full of young faces. And that goes for all the Guest Programmers seen throughout the year. David Mamet, Chevy Chase and Elaine Strich aren't representative of "Young Holywood".

 

As for other TCM promos, people of all ages were taken with the monthly promos that TCM featured in 2006. And I have only seen the new "31 Days..." promo once but I was really impressed with the style and presentation. It shouln't be off-putting to any viewer of a certain age. I hope it's not anyway.

 

That's my take on one of the observations made earlier.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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