Gloria Grahame a complete package

[Arkadin]

I did.

[HollywoodGolightly]

Interesting. Most Lang fans, I think like Big Heat better. Then again, one could argue that Human Desire simply doesn't get as much exposure due to the fact that it isn't even on DVD.

 

I tend to always find something to like in any Lang film, and when they happen to star Gloria, so much the better. I'll certainly keep this in mind next time I watch Human Desire - which might be at the Roxie during the next noir festival.

[Arkadin]

*The Big Heat* is a great film, but there is a lot of dualist symbolism (mirrors, Debbie's face half burned/bandaged, lines repeated, etc.) which combined with the performances (notably Ford's), make the film seem a little bombastic and over the top to me. I find the shots and acting in *Human Desire* and *Naked Alibi* more subtle. While both films are not as explosive (figuratively and literally) as *The Big Heat*, they seem more atmospheric and cohesive.

[HollywoodGolightly]

You make some good points there, Arkadin. I also don't like my symbolism to be too much or too obvious.

 

In any event, you've definitely given us good reasons to watch both movies again (for those of us who've seen them before).

[CineMaven]

Oops! My apologies. This thread is so long, I sometimes start reading in the wrong place, or gloss over certain entries, thinking I've already read them. ?Naked Alibi? is somewhat similar to The Big Heat (1953), but I personally think it's a better film (as was Lang's followup, Human Desire (1954)). - ARKADIN.

 

To be honest I haven?t seen ?Naked Alibi? but once I do I?ll see which I like better. I have to say I preferred ?The Big Heat? waaay waaaaaay over ?Human Desire.? But it?s all good. It?s all Gloria Grahame, right?

 

?The Big Heat? is a great film, but there is a lot of dualist symbolism (mirrors, Debbie's face half burned/bandaged, lines repeated, etc.) which combined with the performances (notably Ford's), make the film seem a little bombastic and over the top to me. I find the shots and acting in Human Desire and Naked Alibi more subtle. While both films are not as explosive (figuratively and literally) as The Big Heat, they seem more atmospheric and cohesive.

 

Whoa you make some good points. I?ve gotta check out ?Naked Alibi? quick, soon and in a hurry.

[HollywoodGolightly]

I wouldn't mind watching Naked Alibi myself, but I doubt it's going to be showing up on TCM any time soon...

[Arkadin]

It used to play on the old AMC (before commercials), which is where I got my copy. Perhaps Mr. Dewey could include it in his next lineup.

[HollywoodGolightly]

Well, it's a Universal movie. Not sure if there are any 35mm prints of it available anywhere, but with any luck, TCM might get to play it eventually, as part of the new deal it signed with Universal.

[rohanaka]

WAY WAY BACK in the wee hours of Sept 3, 2009 Mad Hat Molo, the Sultan of Glo asked:

 

Now why haven't you watched In A Lonely Place yet?

 

To which Rohanaka replied:

 

Two Words....

 

Humphrey Bogart... ha. I am NOT his biggest fan.

 

Followed by THIS comment from Ms Cutter:

 

Though Bogie may be the star of Lonely Place, Gloria all but steals the movie from him with her performance as a woman who begins to doubt the man she loves.

 

She is really good in it and you won't be disappointed.

 

Well my "Glo Friends"....

 

I am happy to report that I FINALLY got to see this film.... and Ms Cutter.. you were 100% right.... little Gloria was quite the show stealer!! :-)

 

Now I have to be honest... I can't say this was the BEST movie I ever saw... ha... and it isn't even BOGIE''s fault.ha. There were just some "over acting" and "under" acting moments that I found a bit distracting.. and also some "stretches" for my imagnination too (in terms of some of the characters and their actions in a few scenes) but overall.. I have to say... I really enjoyed this film a lot.

 

And again.. that GLORIA.... watta gal. I can TOTALLY see why she has such a following here. My only other references for her were It's a Wonderful Life and Oklahoma.... and while I enjoyed those performances very much.. IALP is likely a much better representation of her ability as an actress. She was SO smooth and cool, especially in the early scenes (like when she is first called down to the police station) and then she is sensual... smart... vulnerable... and quite LOVELY to look at all at the same time. And then at the end when she starts to unravel... all very nicely done.

 

I thought she did a very nice job throughout the film, though I think sometimes her character was a bit TOO "underdone". I don't think it was her fault, though. I think she was just not as clearly "written" as she might have been. I had some trouble seeing her doing a few of the things she did... And near the end... though I DID like her performance overall, it felt like a few of the scenes between her and Bogart were somewhat "overplayed" (at least to me) but BOY.. I LOVED the strong ending.

 

*SPOILER ALERT*

 

Now even though the end was less than happy, I really LIKED how it ended. In fact... I almost wish it had been a bit stronger than him just losing it and choking her... and then HE knows it's over and she is left there talking on the phone to the detective, and just watching him walk away.

 

I WISH (while he was choking her) that she had reached into the drawer of the nightstand... and pulled out a gun... and defended herself. And of course her reason would be... because she BELIEVED he would kill her... (in no small part due to the doubt that had been placed in her mind by the police). And THEN when she gets the phone call saying... "OH sorry, we were wrong, he was NOT the murderer", then the line where she says... something like... "YESTERDAY that would have meant so much more than it does right now" (or something close to that) that would REALLY have packed even MORE of a punch.. but maybe I have been watching too many crime shows lately.. ha. Or maybe I just DISLIKED old DIx that much (that I wanted her to do him in!!!) ha.

 

Ok.. not really... maybe dislike" is too harsh a word. I was just so DISGUSTED with him though..ha. OH ME.. what a NUT JOB. ha. I THINK he was supposed to be "tragic" and "self destructive" maybe. And perhaps even "eccentric" in the way he treated everyone else around him. But to me he was just an arrogant "chump" with a bad temper (most of the time, anyway) ha. The way he pushed everyone away by pushing them around, and the way he played little "mind games" with "authority figures" and then acts all surprised when no one will believe he is innocent. Not to mention the way he flew off the handle on SEVERAL different occassions and roughed people up (people he knew... some people he loved... EVEN complete strangers... he was an "equal opportunity" rough-er upper!. ha) And don't even get me started on his driving...ha.. (did I mention he was self destructive?)

 

OK.. so I am starting to sound like I really hated him... the fact is... I was rooting for him right up to the very end...ha. I WANTED better for him. Gloria MADE me want better for him... because better for HIM meant better for HER too.. and I wanted them to finally overcome all their issues...

 

But alas...

 

Now as for Mr. Bogart... OK. I need to be more OPEN minded..ha. He DOES tend to get better for me each time I see a new film from him. I thought overall he did a VERY good job in this film even if I DID have some issues with the "why's" of some of his character's actions. But I am not ready YET to become a card carrying member of the "I love BOGIE" fanclub..ha. But I will KEEP trying... and who knows... People CAN change. (at least SOME of us can) so maybe there is hope for me, yet. ha.

 

Anyway.... THANKS so much for the tip on this one, all you "GLO-ites" ha. I will look forward to MORE fun discoveries of Ms Grahame in the near future, I hope. I have (I think) a couple of her films (that will be showing in the next several weeks on TCM) marked for a reminder. And in the meantime, I will keep my eye out for more titles for her as well.

 

And as for Gloria.. I am GLAD to finally be able to say that I KNOW now what all the "FUSS" has been about..ha.

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Oct 29, 2009 2:07 AM

[CineMaven]

As an official Glo-lite, I say "YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WILKOMMEN!"

 

I see you still have reservations about Bogart, but you got passed him to see Gloria...and THAT is a good thing!!

 

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rohanaka]

Hiya Miss Maven... (and thanks for the "WILKOMMEN!") :-)

 

I see you still have reservations about Bogart, but you got passed him to see Gloria...and THAT is a good thing

 

Ha... yes.. "reservations" about Bogart. Well... I AM trying. I will get there... eventually... maybe... ha. :-)

 

But boy... Gloria made it easy for me in this film... she really brought out some of his best moments in the story. I think for both their characters, I liked their "casual" moments the best(especially him). Like at the beach (at least BEFORE he got mad.ha.) I think that scene with him being so relaxed with her made him seem more "natural" to me (like a real person instead of this preconceived character of Humphrey Bogart that I had stuck in my head) I guess I am learning to break through my "Bogie" barriers one scene at a time..ha. :-)

[MissGoddess]

Howdy Miz Peacemaker!! You are really diving in the deep end of the noir pool these days...and you watched and discussed Once Upon a Time in the Slime....how are you holding up? Do we need to start another Dukey disucssion right quick? Yes? Yay!

 

...maybe dislike" is too harsh a word. I was just so DISGUSTED with him though..ha. OH ME.. what a NUT JOB. ha. I THINK he was supposed to be "tragic" and "self destructive" maybe. And perhaps even "eccentric" in the way he treated everyone else around him. But to me he was just an arrogant "chump" with a bad temper (most of the time, anyway) ha.

 

Fair enough. I'll give you one Dix Steele for one Ransome Stoddard. Deal?

 

Seriously, I'm hoping in time you'll like more Bogie in the future, but if not, that's a-ok. It's refreshing when people offer up their own unique opinions, rather than just let is lay with "I agree."

 

I like what you said about Gloria's "cool" in this character. That's an excellent adjective because it's a quality that is usually one which is put on, or not very deep rooted. And we eventually see that she's not cool to the core, but, like most people, prone to letting anxiety and fears affect her judgement and decisions.

[rohanaka]

Hey there, Miss G... or should I say.. MRS D!! ha.

 

You are really diving in the deep end of the noir pool these days...and you watched and discussed Once Upon a Time in the Slime....how are you holding up? Do we need to start another Dukey disucssion right quick? Yes? Yay

 

I think I need a LONG swim in the ocean.. you know.. a certain REEF??????????? ha. I HAVE been having a bit of an identity crisis lately.. ha. That "DUKE" day is drawing NEARER and NEARER..ha.

 

I'll give you one Dix Steele for one Ransome Stoddard. Deal

 

Done!! ha.

 

(And ps.. I DID like Dix.. SOME of the time..ha. But BOY.. it was really hard to TRULY feel sorry for him when he just kept making a MESS of things by being such a JERK the rest of the time..ha) :-)

 

like what you said about Gloria's "cool" in this character. That's an excellent adjective because it's a quality that is usually one which is put on, or not very deep rooted.

 

You know.. I kept thinking how could she be so "cool" and yet so "steamy" all at the same time..ha. But she was.. and she carried it off VERY well.

[molo14]

> {quote:title=rohanaka wrote:}{quote}

>

> Well my "Glo Friends"....

>

> I am happy to report that I FINALLY got to see this film.... and Ms Cutter.. you were 100% right.... little Gloria was quite the show stealer!! :-)

>

Hi there Rohanaka!

 

I'm so glad you watched it. Come join our cult now!

 

> Now I have to be honest... I can't say this was the BEST movie I ever saw... ha... and it isn't even BOGIE''s fault.ha. There were just some "over acting" and "under" acting moments that I found a bit distracting.. and also some "stretches" for my imagnination too (in terms of some of the characters and their actions in a few scenes) but overall.. I have to say... I really enjoyed this film a lot.

>

So you enjoyed it? Now go watch it again in a couple of months!

 

Seriously though. This film really does get better with each repeated viewing, my opinion anyway.

 

 

> And again.. that GLORIA.... watta gal. I can TOTALLY see why she has such a following here. My only other references for her were It's a Wonderful Life and Oklahoma.... and while I enjoyed those performances very much.. IALP is likely a much better representation of her ability as an actress. She was SO smooth and cool, especially in the early scenes (like when she is first called down to the police station) and then she is sensual... smart... vulnerable... and quite LOVELY to look at all at the same time. And then at the end when she starts to unravel... all very nicely done.

>

 

This is definitely a different Gloria, and a rare lead role for her. A lot of what makes up Gloria Grahame comes out in Laurel Gray.

 

 

 

> *SPOILER ALERT*

>

> Now even though the end was less than happy, I really LIKED how it ended. In fact... I almost wish it had been a bit stronger than him just losing it and choking her... and then HE knows it's over and she is left there talking on the phone to the detective, and just watching him walk away.

>

> I WISH (while he was choking her) that she had reached into the drawer of the nightstand... and pulled out a gun... and defended herself. And of course her reason would be... because she BELIEVED he would kill her... (in no small part due to the doubt that had been placed in her mind by the police). And THEN when she gets the phone call saying... "OH sorry, we were wrong, he was NOT the murderer", then the line where she says... something like... "YESTERDAY that would have meant so much more than it does right now" (or something close to that) that would REALLY have packed even MORE of a punch.. but maybe I have been watching too many crime shows lately.. ha. Or maybe I just DISLIKED old DIx that much (that I wanted her to do him in!!!) ha.

>

 

That ending might have been too much! How do you think Gloria handled Dix? Should she have been more upfront about her worries with him from the beginning? What motivated her interest in him in the first place? Does she bear some of the blame in the way things turned out?

 

These are questions we have tossed back and forth around here while we're waiting for Frank Grimes to come down form the mountain and enlighten us.

 

> Ok.. not really... maybe dislike" is too harsh a word. I was just so DISGUSTED with him though..ha. OH ME.. what a NUT JOB. ha. I THINK he was supposed to be "tragic" and "self destructive" maybe. And perhaps even "eccentric" in the way he treated everyone else around him. But to me he was just an arrogant "chump" with a bad temper (most of the time, anyway) ha. The way he pushed everyone away by pushing them around, and the way he played little "mind games" with "authority figures" and then acts all surprised when no one will believe he is innocent. Not to mention the way he flew off the handle on SEVERAL different occassions and roughed people up (people he knew... some people he loved... EVEN complete strangers... he was an "equal opportunity" rough-er upper!. ha) And don't even get me started on his driving...ha.. (did I mention he was self destructive?)

 

Remember also those morning after moments of guilt? The flowers for Mildred, the money for the boy. That doesn't have anything to do with justifying his actions, but it is a strange anonymous remorse. He's not telling anyone he's sorry but himself.

>

> OK.. so I am starting to sound like I really hated him... the fact is... I was rooting for him right up to the very end...ha. I WANTED better for him. Gloria MADE me want better for him... because better for HIM meant better for HER too.. and I wanted them to finally overcome all their issues...

>

 

It's interesting to me because I just finished writing about Harry Fabian in *Night and the City* and how irredeemable he is. Dix has some redeeming qualities. I like the struggle he goes through. He's not a happy man. He's not that confident in himself. He is loyal. He drinks. He is violent. Does that come from insecurity in himself? How did the war affect him? I like the way he comes alive at the sight of Laurel. She gives him hope.

 

The more I see the film the more I find in the character of Dixon Steele. It's not very pretty but it's interesting. Just DON'T call him a knuckle-headed squirrel! He hates that!

 

> But alas...

>

> Now as for Mr. Bogart... OK. I need to be more OPEN minded..ha. He DOES tend to get better for me each time I see a new film from him. I thought overall he did a VERY good job in this film even if I DID have some issues with the "why's" of some of his character's actions. But I am not ready YET to become a card carrying member of the "I love BOGIE" fanclub..ha. But I will KEEP trying... and who knows... People CAN change. (at least SOME of us can) so maybe there is hope for me, yet. ha.

>

 

Oh I like Bogie. My goodness I just think of all the great films he was in. You'll come around one day. Dixon Steele is not his most likable or sympathetic character but he is very good in that role and it's one of his best.

 

> Anyway.... THANKS so much for the tip on this one, all you "GLO-ites" ha. I will look forward to MORE fun discoveries of Ms Grahame in the near future, I hope. I have (I think) a couple of her films (that will be showing in the next several weeks on TCM) marked for a reminder. And in the meantime, I will keep my eye out for more titles for her as well.

>

 

Yes I remember. I have a reminder set just to remind you!

 

> And as for Gloria.. I am GLAD to finally be able to say that I KNOW now what all the "FUSS" has been about..ha.

>

 

Yep, she's a complete package!

 

[rohanaka]

Helloooooo O Great Sultan of Glo!! :-)

 

So you enjoyed it? Now go watch it again in a couple of months!

 

Ha.. I don't know WHEN I will fit that in.. I am already so far behind in my movie watching.. if I strapped myself down in a chair and only watched movies all day and night for the next two WEEKS I don't know if I could catch up..

 

Seriously though. This film really does get better with each repeated viewing, my opinion anyway.

 

I imagine you are right. Some films are like that... and I can see where this one might be one of them. There were things that I may well have overlooked that would stand out more in a second viewing. I will try to make a point of seeing this one again... SOME DAY! (ha)

 

A lot of what makes up Gloria Grahame comes out in Laurel Gray

 

You could take what I know about GG and put it in a thimble.. and STILL have enough room to drive a Semi tractor trailer around in there too..ha. But I can see what you are saying.. so much of Laurel seemed like a NATURAL part of Gloria's personality... or maybe it is the other way around.

 

How do you think Gloria handled Dix?

 

I think she had several "ways" that she did this... she motivated him.. encouraged him... tried to bring out the best in him... and when she saw he was getting too uptight or upset about stuff... she did her best to "talk him down" or sometimes even just show HIM how calm SHE was being.. in an effort to "bring him down".

 

One scene that I had a HARD time buying when I first saw it was when he was flying down the twisty mountain road at breakneck speed.. and she is sitting next to him in the car, all terrified and thinking they would be killed at any moment... and then suddenly she just reaches in her purse and grabs a cigarette.. and offers one to him... At FIRST I am thinking... OH good grief..ha. Like THAT'S gonna work. Well.... I was right.. it DIDN'T.. but I think that was not so DOPEY of a move for her as I first thought.. but rather another attempt by her to just help calm him down. And even though it failed.. I see that as her way of dealing with him... calm in the face of the storm. A lot of other people would have plowed into him and let him have it (at least verbally) and I think she saw that that would only be adding fuel to the fire.

 

Should she have been more upfront about her worries with him from the beginning?

 

Well... my first answer would be yes... but then again.. he DID NOT have much ability for taking constructive criticism and part of her worries were due to the way HE was behaving as much as the things the police had told her... so he likely would not have handled things very well. But still... I think it would have at least been easier for him to hear she had worries BEFORE he got all suspicious and figured it out for himself (too late).

 

Does she bear some of the blame in the way things turned out?

 

I think she does.. at least somewhat... and it goes back to what I just said. By the time she had gotten SO afraid of him that she wanted to leave.. it was too late to stop him from being so UPSET at finding it all out on his own. I think they BOTH had problems just assuming they really knew the other better than they really did... and it backfired on both of them... only at different times.

 

What motivated her interest in him in the first place?

 

Hmmmm.... well... I think to be honest... at first.. it was physical. But as time went by, I think she DID see more in him than just what was on the surface. He DID have many redeeming qualities (as you say) and I think she saw what talent he had... and she looked past many of his failings because as her attraction to him became more emotional, she could see the good and more complex sides of him and I believe she was drawn to THAT more and more.

 

like the struggle he goes through. He's not a happy man. He's not that confident in himself. He is loyal. He drinks. He is violent. Does that come from insecurity in himself? How did the war affect him? I like the way he comes alive at the sight of Laurel. She gives him hope.

 

I think so long as his life was going well... HE did well. But I think Dix is one of those "cracks under pressure" kinda guys. And yes.. he did have enough conscience to be sorry AFTERWARD... but he did not have enough self control to reign himself in BEFORE he lost it.

 

And I do think Laurel brought out the best in him, but don't you think though, (because he WAS who he was) that IF there had not been this whole "police investigation" going on... and if they had just gotten together anyway that it might have been WORSE for her in the end...

 

Even though she did seem to have a calming effect on his personality.. and even though she was a good motivator for him and seemed to make him want to "be a better man", it could still have been that the violence in him might have lay dormant a little longer... and then someday.. when it was too late and they were married and maybe even had kids.. she REALLY got her eyes opened to the darker side of him??? I think he was NOT going to change until he learned how to deal w/ his temper and whatever it was the made him "him". And evidently... loving her.. and having her love him HELPED for a while... but it did not really change him in the end.

 

These are questions we have tossed back and forth around here while we're waiting for Frank Grimes to come down form the mountain and enlighten us.

 

Oh good gravy.. ha. If you are waiting for HIM to show up... I may need to go get my rope AND my hatpin.. HA.

 

Oh I like Bogie. My goodness I just think of all the great films he was in. You'll come around one day. Dixon Steele is not his most likable or sympathetic character but he is very good in that role and it's one of his best.

 

I know.. ha I am SUCH a doofus.. ha. He has been in SO many films that end up on the "favorites list" of so many people... it is a LONG story as to WHY I somehow thought he was "not my cuppa tea" all these years.. but basically it just goes back to preconceived notions or perceptions of WHO I think he was (as an actor) vs who I am FINDING him to be (as time goes by) I am SURE I will get there... eventually.

 

I have a reminder set just to remind you

 

Woohoo!! I need all the help I can GET!! ha. (did I mention I was a DOOFUS??) ha.

[CineMaven]

Rohanaka writes:

 

?You know.. I kept thinking how could she be so "cool" and yet so "steamy" all at the same time..ha. But she was.. and she carried it off VERY well.?

 

Cool and steamy. Now THAT is the best description I have read about Gloria Grahame. Did anyone ELSE feel the electricity when she and Dix were at the piano bar, and she whispers into his ear?

 

Ro--- what did you make of the scene with Laurel getting a massage?

-------------------------

 

Molo writes:

 

*How do you think Gloria handled Dix?

 

She handled him well until he started freakin? out.

 

*Should she have been more upfront about her worries with him from the beginning?

 

Yes...from across the alley way. He couldn?t take criticism.

 

*What motivated her interest in him in the first place?

 

Murder suspects give off sexy pheromones. He wasn?t the boy-next-door. And he knew people.

 

*Does she bear some of the blame in the way things turned out?

 

Women are never to blame.

 

?These are questions we have tossed back and forth around here while we're waiting for Frank Grimes to come down from the mountain and enlighten us.?

 

G-Man is not on a mountaintop...he?s painting Kitty?s toes. Cruising for a bruising.

 

GLORIA GRAHAME ROCKS. I'm glad you watched "In A Lonely Place."

[rohanaka]

Hiya Ms Maven..

 

Ro--- what did you make of the scene with Laurel getting a massage?

 

Wow... that gal she had working for her really KNEW how to work her over!! ha.(I loved her voice by the way) ha

 

I think she DID care about Laurel.. but she knew the right "buttons" to push too. She certainly did a good job of watering those seeds of doubt in Laurel's mind (if not planting a few of her own)

 

And PS.. yes... the electricity from that piano bar scene could have provided enough energy to power an entire city for WEEKS. ha. We should phone the governement and ask for the the "Electricity Czar" to alert him as to how to solve the energy crisis.. ha.

 

GLORIA GRAHAME ROCKS. I'm glad you watched "In A Lonely Place

 

Me too, youngun. I'm really looking forward to my next Gloria "film watching extravaganza"!! :-)

[timothy17]

[HollywoodGolightly]

> {quote:title=timothy17 wrote:}{quote}

>

 

Absolutely awesome photo, timothy!

 

And you'd never believe this, but I actually caught a brief glimpse of Gloria today! There's a few clips from old 40s and 50s movies in the Michael Jackson documentary This is It, and she's in it, too!

[timothy17]

Thanks =)

 

ooh that's awesome, now i really wanna see it. Is it as good as people are making it sound?

[timothy17]

haha nevermind i just found and read your post explaining what you thought about it =)

[HollywoodGolightly]

Cool, I'm glad you found it, hope that makes more sense now. And looking at GG in the big screen is, as always, a lovely experience.

[laffite]

*SPOILERS THROUGHOUT*

 

I just watched In a Lonely Place, the second time for me, the first quite awhile back. This time I took in the 20-minute bonus feature that points out, interestingly, that in the novel Dix was a psychotic killer and did kill Laurel in the end. And also that Nicholas Ray shot an ending when Dix kills Laurel anyway. We see a still of her lying there. Ray is said to have rejected this ending because it didn?t feel right. More about that later.

 

(Question for the group and anyone who is a devotee of this film, would like you to see that ending and should it be included in the DVD as a bonus feature? Film buffs (and everybody here is) presumably would welcome that but there might be some who really like the present ending and wouldn?t want that preference besmirched by any images to the contrary. And who wants to see Laurel Grey in the lovely form of our own Miss Gloria Graham brutally murdered. It?s just possible that we may have to sacrifice the movie buff?s normal curiosity in favor of a little decency here. After all, we?re talking about Gloria )

 

*Rohanaka* I liked your ending very much. To paraphrase you, she manages to kill him to save her own life and then gets the phone call exonerating him and saying, ?Yesterday, that might have meant something? ((etc)). From there a fade out (and to add my bit) and then fade in to represent a brief passage of time and other people on the scene, photographing the body, policeman everywhere, Laurel standing there dazed and instead of answering the questions they are peppering her with, ie ?What happened!? looking straight ahead instead, stunned, saying those words, ?I lived a few weeks while you loved me?? fade out, The End. (In an earlier scene, while in the car, he asked her to repeat the three lines. She only repeats the first two. In the _the actual ending_ we finally get the third line from her). You?re right, Ro, that ending would have packed a wallop. There would be a poignancy in watching Dix ending up dead that way especially when we find out that he was innocent of murdering the girl. I believe Ray would have nixed that ending as well and for that reason too, Dix being innocent. General audiences might not have liked such an arty ending as that, arty because Dix would have died like a tragic hero, complete with tragic flaw. Ray might have thought that the audience might not accept what could be perceived as an ignominious death especially considering as it turns out he didn't even kill Mildred and rightly saw that audiences would have been more interested in simple justice than tragic flaws. But I think you have an interesting ending there.

 

*Rohanaka*, you seem to have mixed feelings about Dix, very understandable, especially coming from a woman (it seems to me). Violence against women is a particularly heinous thing and that probably colors your impressions (correct me if I have that wrong). It might be easier for a man to like him in some ways, though Dix does get pretty bad that might be difficult for anyone can swallow. In any case when Dix is not in the throes of his affliction he is clearly likable. It is therefore wrenching to see him go off and all the more at those times when he seems so genuinely sorry after. Following the telephone incident at the restaurant, later in Laurel?s apartment, watch him sitting in the chair, pouting almost like a naughty child, head in his hands, saying, ??I shouldn?t have picked up the telephone, it was none of my business?I don?t why, I?? Then just a few minutes later he nearly strangles her to death. The phone rings. He picks up the phone and then lingers quite a long time (perfect timing here) no doubt with this same sort of bewilderment, as in ?I don?t why, I?? though not saying it this time, before finally talking into the phone and learning that he is no longer a suspect. It?s moments like these, and so well done by Bogie, that humanizes him at least a little and makes him somewhat sympathetic in these, his worst moments. But the extent of his excesses gets pretty bad towards the end and is hard to overlook.

 

After my viewingf of this film a while back, I think I puzzled a little too much and too long on what is it that makes Dix tick and why does he go off the way he does. It is probably simply mental illness in the general sense though perhaps there are more specific reasons, still not sure. There seems to be touches of paranoia (at least my lay idea of what that means) as well as the garden variety flying off the handle when someone overtly offends him. It?s interesting to me that he can lose it so completely in these cases but is surprising calm and even humorously flippant at the idea by some, including the police, that he is being considered a suspect in the murder case. Why isn?t he upset (ie fly off the handle) about that? There was some talk in previous discussions here or at least point made about whether he has a PTSD thing with the war. I was watching carefully for this. Dix?s agent says while happy that Dix is working so diligently, ?Dix hasn?t been able to work like this since before the war,? and we get the police chief reading Dix?s past transgressions with the dates 1946 and 1947, dates that resonate in connection with the war theory as if Dix problems are all subsequent to it. But at another time we hear from his agent that he has known Dix a long time and that he (Dix) is just this way, ie temperamental, a propensity that, in listening to Dix's agent in this instance, would have predated the war.

 

And in previous discussions earlier here what was the verdict of this seeming crux regarding the bearing of gifts to both the murdered girl and the battered football player? Are we supposed to believe at the moment Dix's is sending money to the football player that because he was guilty of beating up the football player he must have been guilty of murdering the girl as well because he sent her flowers (after she was dead). I hope there is an explanation of that lest I feel that I have been cheaply misled that Dix murdered the girl when, as it turns out, he didn?t.

 

Is it noteworthy at all that, at the end, he could have gone to Laurel and said, look, I?m innocent, you have nothing to worry about with me. Probably not because he had indeed gone too far. I suspect that Ray and others may have puzzled over how to end this movie but the one they finally chose is wrenching enough and probably a little atypical for a Hollywood tendency that so often looks to find a way for a happy ending. That they didn?t try to force one on us is to their credit. They may have tried to work one out, I don?t know, but the ending we got is daring and maybe even a little shocking. Despite seeing Dix at his absolute worst it is still difficult to see him simply to walk out of her life forever. But a very good ending, IMO

 

Bogart and Dix seems an inexhaustible subject. In fact, the movie as a whole. I know this film has already been much discussed on this thread and what I've said here does not represent anything particularly new. Still, Bogie and Gloria are so good and it would be fun to go on. There is something interesting to say about so many scenes. I wanted to mention as well that for some reason I appreciated in Dix the kind regard he had for the old Thespian. I like the old guy myself. Some time ago I posted something on him and the poem he keeps reciting, a sonnet of Shakespeare.

 

But enough for now. I haven't even touched on Gloria, not a good thing since she is the main event on this thread...but (a warning!) I want to do a separate post on her later.

 

A short word and accolade for Martha Stewart who imbues Mildred Atkinson with a bubbly enthusiasm, some cute behavioral nuances, and a few charming lines. (Dix looks at her at times as if she were an idiot) Here is Mildred on what is an epic ?You know, a story that is real long and has lots of things going on.? She might not be a literary critic but she has a sweet demeanor and a genial simplicity and I think Martha Stewart, whoever she may be, did a pretty good job being Mildred Atkinson.

 

Edited by: laffite on Nov 4, 2009 5:03 AM

[HollywoodGolightly]

> {quote:title=laffite wrote:}{quote}

> (Question for the group and anyone who is a devotee of this film, would like you to see that ending and should it be included in the DVD as a bonus feature? Film buffs (and everybody here is) presumably would welcome that but there might be some who really like the present ending and wouldnt want that preference besmirched by any images to the contrary.

 

Personally, I would like to see that alternate ending, assuming it was shot and still survives. Those who didn't want their memories tarnished could always choose not to look at the "alternate ending".

[FrankGrimes]

Bonjour, Laffite! -- Damn you! Why must you write so? What you wrote has me wanting to reply, so I must rewatch In a Lonely Place and chime in. You have been brilliant in your writings, most especially with The Shanghai Gesture. It's great to have you back around.