Gloria Grahame a complete package

[MissGoddess]

Lafitte, what a wonderful write up on In A Lonely Place! I agree with you about Dix. I find him so compelling and sympathetic, so that I feel profound disappointment when he loses control of himself. I sometimes wonder if there isn't a certain degree of entitlement behind his lack of control...as though he thought of himself rather too highly, or that he was above certain rules of behavior. I speculate about that only because he seemed very contemptuous of his environment (Hollywood, I mean), and that's quite common enough, but he really flew off the handle at the thought of anyone "unworthy" reading his material. He was perhaps, partly messed up from the war, partly too isolated from others who would hold him accountable for his behavior (in the military he'd get in trouble for acting like that with other officers). Just goes to show you how much this character generates speculation!

[rohanaka]

Hello Monsieur Laffite...

 

WOW what a post. I really like your insight into the chaotic MESS that is Dix..ha. And thanks for going with me on my alternate ending. I liked your additions (And who KNEW there was a REAL alternate ending... thanks for that info, wow.)

 

The ending (just as it was) is a powerful way to wrap up everything. Watching him walk away like that is heartbreaking and I did have sympathy for BOTH of them at that moment. But I guess I just liked the thought of the irony if she HAD killed him because he got so out of control due to her doubts and suspicions about him. (which were brought on not only by all the innuendo, but by his own behavior as well) And then for her to find out only moments later that he was NOT the man she suspected him to be... wow. Now THAT would have been a shocker. ( Almost rather "Twilight Zone-ish... ha. I like a good twist like that now and then)

 

I imagine you are right that the director (at the time this film was made) may have been kept from that sort of ironic twist at the end due to the times and moviegoing ideals of the day. But I bet if this film had been made even a few years later than it was, perhaps it may have ended either more like the novel... or more like our own collaborative effort.

 

you seem to have mixed feelings about Dix, very understandable, especially coming from a woman (it seems to me). Violence against women is a particularly heinous thing and that probably colors your impressions (correct me if I have that wrong).

 

Well, in all honesty, while I agree that I do not like to see ANY thug being a bully and/ or brutalizing anyone (the way he did her) I think the issues I had for him (more than anything) had more to do with being FRUSTATED with his STUPIDITY. For such a smart guy.. he could be SO very dumb sometimes. I was just so aggravated at how little concern he showed about the way he allowed himself to appear before the police (and everyone else.. including Laurel.) Now I am one of the last people on the planet to worry over what I THINK others are thinking about me (believe me, I have WAY too many other things going on that I have to worry over) but I do believe that he only hurt himself by his own foolish behavior.

 

And then there is that whole flying off the handle at the drop of a hat thing. He had NO self control. Perhaps he WAS mentally ill. Perhaps he had social issues (and just did not handle criticism well) Whatever the reason... his violent tendencies were way out of hand.

 

I agree with what Miss G said about how maybe he felt "entitled" as if he were a bit above everyone. I think there WAS a certain mindset like that in him... but I also think he had a self destructive side that maybe was due to some insecurity he felt in his personal life (as in: People only want me for what they can get from me. I am not likeable or worth loving for myself) and so maybe he acted out of anger and pushed it people away to protect himself so he would not feel "used" by them.

 

Which is kind of sad when you think about it, because he was a very likeable guy... when he wasn't being a jerk. (And PS: I agree w/ what was said about the way he treated the thespian... It made him all the more endearing.) But wow... the way he beat up on his friends... and the people who were closest to him... not to mention the way he beat up on total strangers when he lost control of his temper... the fact that he felt remorse LATER was good... but it was not good enough. He KNEW he had problems (otherwise he would not have felt sorry) but he did not feel bad enough to try and STOP himself (or get help) so I think in the end... at the very least, he got what he deserved... and maybe he even got off easy. He COULD have found himself in jail... or gotten beat up by someone bigger than him someday.. (or he could even have found himself looking at the wrong end of Laurel's gun... if you and I had been writing the story...ha)

 

Anyway... I found him to be among the more FRUSTRATING protagonists of any movie I have seen lately. (One minute I am cheering him on... the next minute I wanted to throw a brick at him..ha)

 

I haven't even touched on Gloria, not a good thing since she is the main event on this thread...but (a warning!) I want to do a separate post on her later

 

Now that will be a good read, for sure. I will look forward to hearing your thoughts. And maybe (finally) YOU will be the one to drag the GREY GUY out of the shadows long enough to give me some of his comments too. (and I will practice putting my fingers in my ears and closing my eyes, and singing la la la la la when you two gents (and that Mad Hat gent as well) start getting all ga ga about Gloria..ha)

 

A short word and accolade for Martha Stewart who imbues Mildred Atkinson with a bubbly enthusiasm, some cute behavioral nuances, and a few charming lines.

 

I LOVED Mildred... she was everything you say... and very well played. And MAN what a shocker to find someone so innocent and so likeable (albeit a little annoying..ha) ... and someone you THINK is only going to be a marginal part of the story end up being MURDERED at the beginning of it all thereby becoming the whole framework that the rest of the story unfolds around... I totally did not see that coming.

[molo14]

Hi Laffite,

 

Great to see you here again! I think I'm due for another viewing. I'll try to watch it tonight or tomorrow. I'm not certain, but if look back in this thread to our past discussions; I am a lot harder on Dix whenever I watch the film. After I ponder it a while I tend to mellow. I just find him such an interesting character. He certainly has flaws that can't be glossed over.

 

I look forward to your thoughts on Gloria's Laurel Gray!

 

I also find the discussion of alternate endings, and the way the book actually ended interesting.

 

Kathy, I think I'm warming to your ending idea the more I think about it.

 

I'll be back!

[molo14]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> Bonjour, Laffite! -- Damn you! Why must you write so? What you wrote has me wanting to reply, so I must rewatch In a Lonely Place and chime in. You have been brilliant in your writings, most especially with The Shanghai Gesture. It's great to have you back around.

 

Somebody notify the Vatican! Laffite may have performed a miracle here!

 

Hmm...Saint Laffite ? That would be an odd turn for a pirate!

 

Oh, I'm just kiddin' with ya Frank!

[CineMaven]

?Bogart and Dix seems an inexhaustible subject. In fact, the movie as a whole. I know this film has already been much discussed on this thread and what I've said here does not represent anything particularly new.? - Lafitte.

 

Lafitte, frankly, you have said nothing new in regards to ?IN A LONELY PLACE.?

 

You have said something brilliant.

 

I think I shall call you (in my head) Lafitte de Bergerac. Why? Your command of language, of thought, of expression. It leaves me...leaves me..well...breathless. I can't explain it rationally, but I think folks reading your musings on cinema know what I mean. I can't wait to read what you write about Lady Ga-Ga...I mean Glo-lo. I may need smelling salts.

 

?I imagine you are right that the director (at the time this film was made) may have been kept from that sort of ironic twist at the end due to the times and moviegoing ideals of the day. But I bet if this film had been made even a few years later than it was, perhaps it may have ended either more like the novel... or more like our own collaborative effort.? - Rohanaka.

 

I thought it was you who was having trouble with Bogart and not just the character of Dix. Correct me please. Hell, I've been wrong before. Ha! So wrong.

 

I liked your ending Ro. As you say, it probably would've been too sophisticated for audiences at the time. I don't think I could bear to see Grahame laying on the floor all mangled, but I wouldn't have minded Dix done for even though he hadn't killed anyone. The way the ending is now...the way Dix has to walk away from the Glo-lo he loved, how much you want to bet that before Dix's life is over...he actually DOES kill.

 

"I LOVED Mildred... she was everything you say... and very well played. And MAN what a shocker to find someone so innocent and so likeable (albeit a little annoying..ha) ... and someone you THINK is only going to be a marginal part of the story end up being MURDERED at the beginning of it all thereby becoming the whole framework that the rest of the story unfolds around...I totally did not see that coming." - Rohanaka.

 

Watch Hitch do that later with Janet Leigh. Now THERE was a shocker.

 

And guyz, please go ga-ga for Glo-lo (again). ...I love watching grown men drool.

[FrankGrimes]

Bonjour, Super Charger -- I hope you win this week.

 

I just watched In a Lonely Place, the second time for me, the first quite awhile back. This time I took in the 20-minute bonus feature that points out, interestingly, that in the novel Dix was a psychotic killer and did kill Laurel in the end. And also that Nicholas Ray shot an ending when Dix kills Laurel anyway. We see a still of her lying there. Ray is said to have rejected this ending because it didn?t feel right. More about that later.

 

I haven't watched that featurette yet. Boy, if that were the ending, I would have a completely different feeling about Dix.

 

Rohanaka, you seem to have mixed feelings about Dix, very understandable, especially coming from a woman (it seems to me). Violence against women is a particularly heinous thing and that probably colors your impressions (correct me if I have that wrong). It might be easier for a man to like him in some ways, though Dix does get pretty bad that might be difficult for anyone can swallow.

 

That's a very interesting point, Laffite, and one with great validity. It's tough to pull for Dix because of his violent temper. Still... here I am.

 

In any case when Dix is not in the throes of his affliction he is clearly likable. It is therefore wrenching to see him go off and all the more at those times when he seems so genuinely sorry after. Following the telephone incident at the restaurant, later in Laurel?s apartment, watch him sitting in the chair, pouting almost like a naughty child, head in his hands, saying, ??I shouldn?t have picked up the telephone, it was none of my business?I don?t why, I?? Then just a few minutes later he nearly strangles her to death. The phone rings. He picks up the phone and then lingers quite a long time (perfect timing here) no doubt with this same sort of bewilderment, as in ?I don?t why, I?? though not saying it this time, before finally talking into the phone and learning that he is no longer a suspect. It?s moments like these, and so well done by Bogie, that humanizes him at least a little and makes him somewhat sympathetic in these, his worst moments. But the extent of his excesses gets pretty bad towards the end and is hard to overlook.

 

That was excellent. You are right, Bogie does a superb job of acting in the scenes you highlighted. He's one of the best, especially in films like this.

 

After my viewingf of this film a while back, I think I puzzled a little too much and too long on what is it that makes Dix tick and why does he go off the way he does. It is probably simply mental illness in the general sense though perhaps there are more specific reasons, still not sure. There seems to be touches of paranoia (at least my lay idea of what that means) as well as the garden variety flying off the handle when someone overtly offends him. It?s interesting to me that he can lose it so completely in these cases but is surprising calm and even humorously flippant at the idea by some, including the police, that he is being considered a suspect in the murder case. Why isn?t he upset (ie fly off the handle) about that?

 

I'd say Dix is supremely sure of himself which leads to his severe frustration as an artist. Since he is so sure of himself, he isn't fazed by the police questioning him. He's actually shocked they would even consider him for such a crime, which tells you how oblivious he is to his violent anger. He doesn't view it as a problem.

 

There was some talk in previous discussions here or at least point made about whether he has a PTSD thing with the war. I was watching carefully for this. Dix?s agent says while happy that Dix is working so diligently, ?Dix hasn?t been able to work like this since before the war,? and we get the police chief reading Dix?s past transgressions with the dates 1946 and 1947, dates that resonate in connection with the war theory as if Dix problems are all subsequent to it. But at another time we hear from his agent that he has known Dix a long time and that he (Dix) is just this way, ie temperamental, a propensity that, in listening to Dix's agent in this instance, would have predated the war.

 

It's my belief Dix is to represent the returning soldier and their adjustment troubles. You wisely denote Dix's reported altercations as starting in 1946 with World War II having come to an end in 1945. I also think it's important to note that two of the guys Dix smacked around were spoiled brats. One was a "junior" while the other was a "college star." And I believe it's vital to recognize that both of these "boys" disrespected Dix and did so with disdain and aggression. Two different kind of mentalities; the returning soldier meets the rich, college boy.

 

 

And in previous discussions earlier here what was the verdict of this seeming crux regarding the bearing of gifts to both the murdered girl and the battered football player? Are we supposed to believe at the moment Dix's is sending money to the football player that because he was guilty of beating up the football player he must have been guilty of murdering the girl as well because he sent her flowers (after she was dead). I hope there is an explanation of that lest I feel that I have been cheaply misled that Dix murdered the girl when, as it turns out, he didn?t.

 

I believe Dix struggles to show remorse... at first. He's the symbol of an abusive relationship. After a cooling off period, he feels guilt and remorse and then he apologizes... via "gifts." With Laurel, he straight up apologizes to her.

 

Is it noteworthy at all that, at the end, he could have gone to Laurel and said, look, I?m innocent, you have nothing to worry about with me. Probably not because he had indeed gone too far. I suspect that Ray and others may have puzzled over how to end this movie but the one they finally chose is wrenching enough and probably a little atypical for a Hollywood tendency that so often looks to find a way for a happy ending. That they didn?t try to force one on us is to their credit. They may have tried to work one out, I don?t know, but the ending we got is daring and maybe even a little shocking. Despite seeing Dix at his absolute worst it is still difficult to see him simply to walk out of her life forever. But a very good ending, IMO

 

I agree with you, I absolutely love the ending. It's Dix who walks out and it's Laurel who is terribly upset. Amazing.

 

I wanted to mention as well that for some reason I appreciated in Dix the kind regard he had for the old Thespian. I like the old guy myself. Some time ago I posted something on him and the poem he keeps reciting, a sonnet of Shakespeare.

 

I believe Charlie Waterman (Robert Warwick) -- what a perfect name -- is an important character when compared to Dix. They are similar. Dix is an honest man, as is the "thespian." As horrible as Dix's anger is, it's still honest. He's not hiding. Then there is...

 

 

A short word and accolade for Martha Stewart who imbues Mildred Atkinson with a bubbly enthusiasm, some cute behavioral nuances, and a few charming lines. (Dix looks at her at times as if she were an idiot) Here is Mildred on what is an epic ?You know, a story that is real long and has lots of things going on.? She might not be a literary critic but she has a sweet demeanor and a genial simplicity and I think Martha Stewart, whoever she may be, did a pretty good job being Mildred Atkinson.

 

I really enjoyed Martha Stewart's performance and character. I loved her "A-pole-o" and her "Uh-lay-thee-uh." Her and Dix's scene reminded me of Ginnie (Shirley MacLaine) telling Dave (Frank Sinatra) what she liked about his story in Some Came Running.

 

But enough for now. I haven't even touched on Gloria, not a good thing since she is the main event on this thread...but (a warning!) I want to do a separate post on her later.

 

Ahhhhh, yes, Laurel Gray. She needs a good spanking. She's gonna get one, too.

 

The word "trust" is going to play a critical role in future spanki... I mean, postings.

 

 

 

 

[laffite]

As usual, my good and dear *Cinemaven*, you have been too kind and though i certainly appreciate it, I truly believe your remark says a lot more about you then it does about me, and not only about you but all the rest of us who have just now and often responded, to me, to you, to others with kind enthusiasm. The tendency to be supportive of one another is really important and we have that in abundance here. And yet we know that it's really not about us but about them, the Humphrey's and the Glorias, and all the rest of them, and of course the movies...movies that are, sadly, ignored by an alarmingly large number of people. I know, I was one of them...and then came TCM...and then all of you and here we are.

 

*Cinemaven*, the only thing wrong with your Laffite de Bergerac analogy is that those beautiful love poems that Monsieur Cyrano wrote to his would-be and hoped-for paramour were actually written by someone else, another character in the play. What a clever way to deliver an underhanded swipe. I know you didn't mean it that way, I'm kidding...still I hope it wasn't a Freudian Slip (wink). So far as I know I don't have a ghostwriter although I have to admit things have been a little spooky lately...but may that was just Halloween just passed.

 

_*King Rambler Molo XIV*_

 

*Somebody notify the Vatican! Laffite may have performed a miracle here! *

 

I think I just have. Have you noticed the Grimes has just aired out on IALP? Maybe we should thank the Dallas Cowboys. They are on a big roll and are tied for first place. Grimes may just be in a good mood.

 

*Hmm...Saint Laffite ? That would be an odd turn for a pirate!*

 

We pirates are often underestimated. But Saint Laffite might be going too far. The Church would never be the same (and neither would Laffite).

 

_*Cowboy Fan Supreme de Grimes!*_

 

*I believe Dix struggles to show remorse... at first. He's the symbol of an abusive relationship. After a cooling off period, he feels guilt and remorse and then he apologizes... via "gifts." With Laurel, he straight up apologizes to her.*

 

I?ve read through all and will again more closely but this popped out at me. I think you have disabused me a false notion on my part, that is, trying see more in a situation than there really is. When I saw Dix send the money to the football player, I, of course, knew that he had really in fact beat up the guy. So I thought, well, maybe that means (or the story wants us to suspect) he?s guilty of Mildred?s murder because he sent flowers to her. In other words, he sends gift only when he?s guilty of something. But that?s where I goofed. As you indicate he sent the flowers because of a general sense of remorse, maybe he felt a little responsible for not having taken her home, or perhaps he was just sorry?or at least for reasons having nothing to do with the idea he might have murdered her. I never believed and I don?t think we were meant to believe that Dix was guilty of Mildred?s murder---I don?t think this movie was a mystery in the conventional sense---but I still think it interesting that they threw that gift giving idea in the mix.

 

_*Rohanaka:*_ *Perhaps he WAS mentally ill.*

 

_*Miss Goddess:*_ *He was perhaps, partly messed up from the war, partly too isolated from others who would hold him accountable for his behavior (in the military he'd get in trouble for acting like that with other officers). Just goes to show you how much this character generates speculation!*

 

I think this movie should be assigned as homework for advanced psychiatry seminars requiring each student to issue a diagnosis on Dixon Steele. Then maybe we can clear this up once and for all

[rohanaka]

Well, well, well.... look who finally joined the party.... if it isn't the GREY Squirrel himself. Ha.

 

I'd say Dix is supremely sure of himself which leads to his severe frustration as an artist. Since he is so sure of himself, he isn't fazed by the police questioning him. He's actually shocked they would even consider him for such a crime, which tells you how oblivious he is to his violent anger. He doesn't view it as a problem.

 

I think you are right that in some ways he was "oblivious" about his anger being a problem, at least to a degree. But I do think he knows at least on some level that it is an issue for him too. And I see him as "oblivious" in other ways too. (As in: I don't think it even entered his mind to care about how he came off to people at times.. the police, especially. HE knew he was innocent, why shouldn't THEY?) He was so "self" centered sometims (at least when it came to his opinions) that he just could not see anyone else's ideas as being relevant.

 

It's my belief Dix is to represent the returning soldier and their adjustment troubles.

 

Maybe to a degree. But I don't think the war made him the way he was. I think if anything it may have increased his level of anger and perhaps added fuel to the fire that was always there burning... even if only just below the surface. He was just a "short fuse" kinda guy.

 

I also think it's important to note that two of the guys Dix smacked around were spoiled brats. One was a "junior" while the other was a "college star." And I believe it's vital to recognize that both of these "boys" disrespected Dix and did so with disdain and aggression. Two different kind of mentalities; the returning soldier meets the rich, college boy.

 

I am leaning more to the "short fuse" angle on this one. First of all, (with the football player especially) I don't think he was thinking at all of his service to the country. He was a fairly successful man (at least in the past) in his own right. And I don't think he was mad at those guys for looking down on him as being "less than" they were. I think that he just went off on them for no other real reason than he was mad. He could not take any sort of confrontational tone in anyone even on a good day, but boy, when he was mad... he REALLY had issues with it.

 

In the scene where he gets into it over the cars, look at how he'd just been behaving. He almost killed himself and Laurel (and also the football player too) by his wreckless driving... and then when confronted with it (by a justifiably angry person) he just went over the edge. He needed something to hit.. .and that guy's face was the likeliest target at the moment.

 

Ahhhhh, yes, Laurel Gray. She needs a good spanking. She's gonna get one, too.

The word "trust" is going to play a critical role in future spanki... I mean, postings

 

Ha.. I will look forward to hearing more... even if it DOES mean I have to break out my "la la la" HA!

 

Molo says: Kathy, I think I'm warming to your ending idea the more I think about it.

 

Ha.... I have LOTS of alternate ending ideas for all sorts of movies... ha. But I am sure that I am likely just being a "back seat" movie watcher..ha. Who am I to go messing w/ the classics?? ha.

 

Miss Maven says:

 

I thought it was you who was having trouble with Bogart and not just the character of Dix. Correct me please. Hell, I've been wrong before. Ha! So wrong.

 

Ha... Miss Maven.... it's BOTH.. ha. Now to be truthful.... my issues w/ DIX are more character related than "Bogie" related.... but then there's that whole "I still have to get over my HB issues SOMEDAY" thing I've got going on too. So you had it right on both counts. ha

 

The way the ending is now...the way Dix has to walk away from the Glo-lo he loved, how much you want to bet that before Dix's life is over...he actually DOES kill.

 

At the very least... one day he is going to go too far... and get into some SERIOUS trouble with someone. I can see him letting loose ONE too many times... and not stopping himself. And that would be it. He is a ticking time bomb.

 

Watch Hitch do that later with Janet Leigh. Now THERE was a shocker

 

Ha... you are RIGHT... THAT made this little "shocker" with Mildred look like a walk in the park, didn't it? ha.

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 4, 2009 10:50 PM

[FrankGrimes]

Hey there, Laffite -- I?ve read through all and will again more closely but this popped out at me. I think you have disabused me a false notion on my part, that is, trying see more in a situation than there really is. When I saw Dix send the money to the football player, I, of course, knew that he had really in fact beat up the guy. So I thought, well, maybe that means (or the story wants us to suspect) he?s guilty of Mildred?s murder because he sent flowers to her. In other words, he sends gift only when he?s guilty of something. But that?s where I goofed. As you indicate he sent the flowers because of a general sense of remorse, maybe he felt a little responsible for not having taken her home, or perhaps he was just sorry?or at least for reasons having nothing to do with the idea he might have murdered her. I never believed and I don?t think we were meant to believe that Dix was guilty of Mildred?s murder---I don?t think this movie was a mystery in the conventional sense---but I still think it interesting that they threw that gift giving idea in the mix.

 

I liked what you were intimating in regards to Dix's guilty gifts. It felt like Nicholas Ray was attempting to keep us unsure of Dix, ala Johnny (Cary Grant) in Suspicion. I do think Dix felt bad for Mildred. I'm surprised he felt bad for the college football star, because I certainly didn't. So I'm guessing Dix's gifts are more for himself.

 

Hiya, Quiet Gal -- Well, well, well.... look who finally joined the party.... if it isn't the GREY Squirrel himself. Ha.

 

You're not going to run me over, are you?

 

I think you are right that in some ways he was "oblivious" about his anger being a problem, at least to a degree. But I do think he knows at least on some level that it is an issue for him too. And I see him as "oblivious" in other ways too. (As in: I don't think it even entered his mind to care about how he came off to people at times.. the police, especially. HE knew he was innocent, why shouldn't THEY?) He was so "self" centered sometims (at least when it came to his opinions) that he just could not see anyone else's ideas as being relevant.

 

I think Dix listens to others. I don't view him as a steel wall. But I'm not sure about his viewing his violent temper as a serious problem. I think he feels it's justified. And, for the most part, he's right. However, it's the violence behind his temper that is wrong. Throughout, I felt Dix was in the right most every time. It was how he was responding that was the problem.

 

Maybe to a degree. But I don't think the war made him the way he was. I think if anything it may have increased his level of anger and perhaps added fuel to the fire that was always there burning... even if only just below the surface. He was just a "short fuse" kinda guy.

 

I completely agree with you. The war affected him by heightening his violent temper. He's still fighting the war, the war inside.

 

I am leaning more to the "short fuse" angle on this one. First of all, (with the football player especially) I don't think he was thinking at all of his service to the country. He was a fairly successful man (at least in the past) in his own right. And I don't think he was mad at those guys for looking down on him as being "less than" they were. I think that he just went off on them for no other real reason than he was mad. He could not take any sort of confrontational tone in anyone even on a good day, but boy, when he was mad... he REALLY had issues with it.

 

I was speaking more figuratively than literally. It's the attitudes that are being presented to us. There is the son-in-law who married into wealth and prestige who is disrespectful of those who served before him and the selfish college football player who was concerned about his car more than anything else. Dix represents the soldier who made a great sacrifice. And for what? For the college boy's paint job?

 

 

 

[CineMaven]

Lafitte writes: "...And yet we know that it's really not about us but about them, the Humphrey's and the Glorias, and all the rest of them, and of course the movies...movies that are, sadly, ignored by an alarmingly large number of people. I know, I was one of them...and then came TCM...and then all of you and here we are."

 

You are so right Lafitte de Bergerac, when you say that all those great stars of classic cinema's silver screen inspire us to reach deep inside and write what we genuinely feel about these films. No doubt there are favorite favorite films that we want to keep close to our heart and not share here as well. And that, too, is a testimony to these great classics and how they touch us..

 

(But my comliment to your writing still stands).

 

Cinemaven, the only thing wrong with your Laffite de Bergerac analogy is that those beautiful love poems that Monsieur Cyrano wrote to his would-be and hoped-for paramour were actually written by someone else, another character in the play. What a clever way to deliver an underhanded swipe. I know you didn't mean it that way, I'm kidding...still I hope it wasn't a Freudian Slip (wink). So far as I know I don't have a ghostwriter although I have to admit things have been a little spooky lately...but may that was just Halloween just passed. ;-)

 

Au contraire, mon frere. Cyrano did indeed write those poems. He WAS the letter-writer. He wrote them TO Roxanne FOR Christian. No backhanded swipes or Freudian slips here. Just a plain ol? red petticoat of truth Cap?n Butler gave me.

 

I think this movie should be assigned as homework for advanced psychiatry seminars requiring each student to issue a diagnosis on Dixon Steele. Then maybe we can clear this up once and for all.

 

...And then the film can be shown in a class for abused women and how they shouldn?t stay in an abusive relationship.

 

Rohanaka writes: ?...Now to be truthful...my issues w/ DIX are more character related than "Bogie" related.... but then there's that whole ?I still have to get over my HB issues SOMEDAY,? thing I've got going on too. So you had it right on both counts.?

 

Whew! Okay. It?s good to see that inspite of your feelings for the actor, you do try to give the character a fair chance. Dix fails miserably. He definitely had a short fuse. I do like your ending. But maybe it?s worse for Dix to walk away from the love he fairly destroyed.

 

FrankGrimes writes: ?I think Dix listens to others. I don't view him as a steel wall. But I'm not sure about his viewing his violent temper as a serious problem. I think he feels it's justified. For the most part, he's right. However, it's the violence behind his temper that is wrong. Throughout, I felt Dix was in the right most every time. It was how he was responding that was the problem.?

 

Hi Mr. Bickerson. I think Dix felt sincere remorse for losing his temper:

 

* With college boy

* With his press agent

* And sorry that the hatcheck girl got (as he put it) ?mugged? since he was the last person to see her alive

 

(<Sigh!> I envy your screen-capping skills). I don?t think his remorse justified that fierce nasty temper he had. (Duck Bogie! incoming brick!!!! I didn?t see Rohanaka throw, uh, I mean...)

[laffite]

*I haven't watched that featurette yet. Boy, if that were the ending, I would have a completely different feeling about Dix.*

 

Frank, just curious, how would you feel about Dix had he killed the football player? Had it not been for Laural he would have. I think we are meant to believe that. He was going to bash his head with a rock and probably over and over again just like when he was punching him. That Dix does not actually kill anyone does not mean that he is not capable of it. Or is it only because he would kill Laural (in the alternate ending) that you would have a different idea of Dix? Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding something.

 

*It's my belief Dix is to represent the returning soldier and their adjustment troubles. You wisely denote Dix's reported altercations as starting in 1946 with World War II having come to an end in 1945.*

 

I would downplay the returning soldier idea. It wasn?t fully developed and it is persuasively offset by this conversation that Laural had with the agent during which the agent says, ??years ago I tried to make him go and see a psychiatrist. I though he?d kill me. Always violent. Why it?s as much a part of him as the color of his eyes, the shape of his head. He?s Dix Steele, and if you want him, you gotta take it all, the bad with the good. I?ve taken it for 20 years, and I?d do it again.? This speech reveals that Dix?s psychological and volatility problems predate the war by many years. But there were several references to the war so it may have a factor, but I don?t think it explains Dix.

 

*I also think it's important to note that two of the guys Dix smacked around were spoiled brats. One was a "junior" while the other was a "college star." And I believe it's vital to recognize that both of these "boys" disrespected Dix and did so with disdain and aggression. Two different kind of mentalities; the returning soldier meets the rich, college boy.*

 

The background of these fellows provide capsule back stories but are not developed at all. More important to me is what actually happens in the present moment. The ?junior? is a loudmouth and bully but what sets Dix off is not that he was being disrespected but because the junior put a cigarette ash in the thespian?s drink. We already know and learn more later how kind Dix is to the thespian and Dix didn?t like it. I think Dix was reacting specifically to that. Your screencap shows that too. And to whatever brat status the college star qualifies, I believe, Frank, that Dix was entirely in the wrong in every way. As *Rohanaka* points out Dix practically killed the kid and ruined his car. The kid should be angry. He was lucky to be alive and we know how much $200 was in his day. If he was acting disrespectful and disdainful towards Dix, he had every right to be. Dix deserved it. Or maybe just me. I think I tend to be a lot tougher on Dix than you do, Frank.

 

*I absolutely love the ending. It's Dix who walks out and it's Laurel who is terribly upset. Amazing.*

 

And yet it's not as if Dix is walking out in the way we normally think, as if he has made a conscious decision that he wants to move on, ho-hum, etc. He walks out in absolute ignominy. He has gone to far and even he knows it. And if poor Laural is terribly upset it?s because she has very nearly been murdered. And she is unhappy because she really loved him though even she knew in those final moments it would never work. Dix is just too sick.

 

I don?t think I really buy this idea but?maybe finding out that he was no longer a suspect changes everything for him. He no longer needs Laural, after all. She was originally an alibi and maybe she?s nothing to him now. The screenplay has been accepted and according to his agent success is more important to Dix than anything else. That?s why the agent wanted to get the screenplay to the boss, because if it was accepted, then Dix would be happy and not be so prone to violence. He says that to Laural in the conversation they had in her apartment.

 

*Ahhhhh, yes, Laurel Gray. She needs a good spanking. She's gonna get one, too.*

*The word "trust" is going to play a critical role in future spanki... I mean, postings.*

 

Frank, I?m totally lost. Why does Laural need a spanking? Maybe you are making a joke? I can be quite thick at times. I think you see something in Laural that I?m not even aware of. Uh-oh, Laffite?s missed something again. Dix behaves badly in those other instances already discussed but the way he comes to treat Laural is particularly disturbing to me. He becomes a downright bully. Coming up behind her in the kitchen and holding her in a vice-like grip and telling her a simple yes or no would do (with regard to whether she will marry him or not). I mean, honestly, what a bastard! The Reign of Terror against her in full swing. Uh-oh, I?ve done it now Am I missing something about Laural?

 

//

[laffite]

*Au contraire, mon frere. Cyrano did indeed write those poems. He WAS the letter-writer. He wrote them TO Roxanne FOR Christian. No backhanded swipes or Freudian slips here. Just a plain ol? red petticoat of truth Cap?n Butler gave me.*

 

O mon Dieu, Mademoiselle, did I get that wrong? I reversed the characters! Tiens, that's how much Laffite knows, que voila. Ouch!

 

Listen to you, "Roxanne," "Christian," you know all the characters and I don't even know who wrote the letters. I don't even know who Cap'n Butler is.

 

Sad.

 

Please excuse me now, I have a plank to walk...

 

//

[MissGoddess]

Lafitte,

 

I think I know where Grimes is going with his suppositions...and though it practically chokes me to write this, for once I am in agreement with him on all points...so far, anyway. I won't give away his case prematurely, but I do see where Laurel could have sowed some of the seeds of destruction in her relationship with Dix.

 

As to "junior" and "Joe College", I admit I always thought Dix's response was way out of proportion, and still feel that way, but I also agree with Frank that there is also Dix's legitimate side to the situation. I do believe Ray _was_ making some commentary about the changed world in the 1950s (including indifference to any sacrifices made by servicemen or others). Just look at another of Ray's movies where he makes a similar point about a character and his combative relationship with his world---Dix and Jim Wilson of On Dangerous Ground are not so very different. Dix is feeling the world is against him. He no doubt can see himself in Charlie Waterman, and sees the insults to Charlie as personal and reflecting on himself in a general sense of disrespect of anything that came before.

 

Like Grimes said, he's a man of honest reactions and emotions functioning in a world, particularly Hollywood but broader than that, where his kind are not valued, not respected. His fears about his screenplay being a success must be monumental in a town where you're only as good as your next project. I see Dix as constantly having to prove himself over and over to people. Yet he doesn't expect others to prove their worth to him---Waterman and Mel are accepted by him even though the world rejects them; he even credits Laurel with qualities she doesn't really have ("This one's different").

 

None of this justifies the violence, but, to me, it explains what provokes his resentment and anger. I also may be naive, but I think it's possible a loving, stable marriage might assuage his violent impulses. However, Laurel was not a stable woman, we're told that from the start. She's a get-out-quick when things get tough kind of girl. So is most of the world. Such people then have to live with the consequences for they contribute to the way things are and even to the way the Dix Steeles in the world react.

 

I think it's interesting that the only two people who really understand or put up with Dix are the two older men who have felt themselves tossed aside and disrespected by their world (and who Dix, conversely, does NOT reject). That is a very important and telling thing about this movie and the character of Dix Steele. When we encounter a woman from his past, one he may or may not have roughed up, we also learn she was using Dix for her career. THe only other person who formerly knew him, in the service, is Sgt. Nicolai (Frank Lovejoy). And his memory of the man doesn't coincide with the violent monster he's being presented with. He remembers a man who was well liked by his men, something not always the case with C.O.s. Dix doesn't seem to have had anger issues in the military, which given the pressures, surprises me. Maybe because he was needed and doing something important, he felt no anger or frustrations. Maybe it was the only time he felt that. I know men who have said their time serving in the military was the best time of their lives.

 

Anyway, I just think Dix is not being shown as a typical hot-head. He's complex. He's got a huge ego, definitely, and he's done things that give him a sense of entitlement. Some of that is justified, but entitlement is always a tricky feeling. If you feel people owe you something, you end up being frustrated because the world doesn't work that way. For Dix, being respected and accepted for what and who he is without reservation, by those he values, seems to be a big issue.

 

And one more word about his pattern of remorse. I think maybe it was a good way to keep the audience wondering, and yes, it is an "abuser pattern of behavior", but one thing about this whole story about Dix strikes me as most interesting: in other movies, Bogart practically became a star because of exactly the same behavior in other characters, it's just this time the spotlight is shown on how the character reacts after he cools down, and how his tough-guy behavior is viewed from a different and more critical standpoint. Dix isn't much different to me than Rick, Roy Earle, or a hundred other characters than made Bogart into a movie icon. It's amusing that the story can give us a twist on that character and turn an audience that always rooted for those qualities, into an audience that criticizes or becomes less comfortable with it.

 

Whew! Sorry, I didn't start out intending to write so much. Especially so much in agreement with FrankGrimes!

 

There must be an antidote! I know! Once Upon a Time in the West!

[FrankGrimes]

Awesome! I can't believe someone is on my side... for a change!

 

There's no way I'm going to write anything as perfect as that, Miss Gun for Hire. You pretty much captured many of my feelings about Dix, most especially about his being a soldier and the American boys whom he returns to. This aspect of the film is very subtle, but I believe it's present for a reason.

 

When I get home tonight, I'll share my thoughts on why I believe Laurel is the one who is messed up, maybe more so than Dix. You already mentioned the primary reason. It's all about trust. Should a woman be faithful to her man?

 

[CineMaven]

"None of this justifies the violence, but, to me, it explains what provokes his resentment and anger. I also may be naive, but I think it's possible a loving, stable marriage might assuage his violent impulses. However, Laurel was not a stable woman, we're told that from the start. She's a get-out-quick when things get tough kind of girl. So is most of the world. Such people then have to live with the consequences for they contribute to the way things are and even to the way the Dix Steeles in the world react."

 

Let me get this in before the "Bash :-( Laurel" fest ensues. I get the impression that Laurel is her own woman. She got away from the tycoon her masseuse wanted her to go back to, probably b'cuz that man became possessive. I get the impression that every man wanted Laurel...honored even that she would give them the time of day. And then as soon as they 'got' her, they wanted to possess her. (You know how some guys do). And when she saw the possessiveness, she left them.

 

I think her only fault was to stay with Dix too long; perhaps not face him immediately with her concerns that his temper needed to be, well...tempered. (Of course then we might not have a movie). No, she wasn't an innocent, but I don't think SHE caused Dix to behave the way he did.

 

Oh boy...it's only eleven in the morning, but I'd better get some liquid fortification in me now to steady my nerves for subsequent posts.

 

Lafitte:

 

Listen, there's no need to walk the plank (THIS TIME)!! Mr. G. and Ms. G. still want to talk with you about "IN A LONELY PLACE."

[rohanaka]

Hellooooooo Mr. Squirrel....

 

You're not going to run me over, are you?

 

No way... I'm not fallin' for THAT one, buster... I KNOW how you are.

 

 

 

And, for the most part, he's right. However, it's the violence behind his temper that is wrong.

 

Ha... Well... he is maybe justified in being angry.... some of the time. (like w/ "Junior") But the trouble is, he is not just angry... he's *ANGRY*. He is like a two year old.... on steroids or something. When someone or something upsets him, he just REACTS without thinking. And his reaction it is not anywhere close to appropriate for the "offense" that caused him to get mad.

 

And as for the run in w/ the football player... I'm sticking w/ my story and glad to have the pirate on my side... Dix was WAY out of line. That kid was an innocent bystander who just had the guts to speak up for himself. (And it cost him dearly) If it had not been for Laurel, I truly believe Dix would have killed him. There is no way you can justify that as any sort of righteous anger at being "disrespected". (but you are going to try.. aren't you???? ha)

 

PS: April.... I know you are more sympathetic to poor old Dix than I am... and I DO see some of what you both are saying. He was a "complex' hothead, as you say. And I kept hoping and hoping he'd get past it all. But he just never did. I think I mentioned this before... I WANTED him to overcome his issues and end up happy. And I was pulling for him right up to the bitter end. But alas...

 

As to Laurel... and her share of the "guilt" for the way things turned out... I agree. Some of it DID fall on her... but I think mostly her biggest mistake was in listening to the wrong people... and in NOT trying to be honest w/ Dix about the doubts she was having over his behavior. If she had talked with him BEFORE he got mad.. and not spent so much time deceiving him (even if she was only doing it because she was afraid) I think he may have been able to take what she had to say much more calmly (at least a LOT less violently) than he did. So I can see where what she did may have led him to be angry... but as you say, I do not think her behavior is in any way responsible for HIS reaction. He went too far.

 

There were other things too, that she did that may have played a factor in the way it all worked out, but I will wait to say more until others have a chance to weigh in. I am very interested in seeing how you and the others respond to the question that the grey dude asked about her. He raised an interesting point (about women being faithful to their men) I just need to see how much ROPE I need to give him before I let him hang himself! Ha.

 

And ps... don't worry about agreeing w/ the SHADOW SQUIRREL.... ha. It happens to the best of us now and then. You have the "cure" just right... and a little "dab" will do ya...ha. Take five seconds of "Once Upon A Time in the Blah Blah Blah" (w/ 22 extreme closeup head shots... all in that same 5 second shot..ha) and you will feel like yourself in NO time..ha.

[MissGoddess]

No "bashing" was intended by me, T-Mave. I think Ray presents her as a character with issues of her own, and how this makes her the kind of woman that is just going to be all wrong with a guy like Dix. They are not right for each other, I should say. Dix probably needs someone a lot tougher and at the same time, a lot more patient and less complex. Laurel, interestingly, I think maybe needed to be with someone similar: strong, but not too complicated. They both seem to get "set off" by the insecurities in the other. While they may be physically attracted to one another, I think it's a case of each needing something lacking in themselves. I'm not sure that I made myself any clearer, here, ha!

 

I _do_ like Laurel as a character, she's very attractive and cool, but she's a bit sphinxlike to me. I'm not sure what she wants. This makes me want to find out what makes her tick and it also appears, to me at least, that there is a reason such a character is put in the story to be with Dixon Steele. If it were all about Dix's ungovernable rage issues, then why not just give him a sweet, relatively simple girlfriend or a straighforward type like Bacall? Instead we're given a much deeper and more complex person called Laurel Gray. I'd forgotten her last name, by the way. "Gray", well, we've gone into that here quite a bit, ha! And "Steele"---it's hard, bright, clean and potentially deadly.

 

Laurel is a mystery to me. The only person in the movie that knows her is a person that I felt an instant antipathy toward. Why does Laurel keep that creepy masseuse around? Maybe that's what sent me on the the trail of her mixed emotions. She seems to allow that woman to influence her, regardless of her leaving the "tycoon" against her wishes---and the masseuse's wishes are clearly all about what profit she herself can get out of the relationship. Are we to credit the masseuse's critique of Dixon Steele? Was she telling Laurel the truth about him, as a warning, or was she planting gossip in her mind to get her back to the tycoon so she can sponge some more? Why does Laurel keep such a person in her life? I ask, because I was in Laurel's position when I was in L.A. I saw each type that is presented here in this movie with the exception of Dix Steele (no one possessed his character, or even Mel's). I saw plenty of people like that masseuse and the young actresses who, because of their ambition, let themselves be swayed by manipulative people. Actresses who seemed very sure of themselves and wouldn't listen to common sense. Women who thought they could negotiate the treacherous waters in Hollywood Babylon. If Dix Steele has a tough time there, how easy can it have been for Laurel?

 

I think the masseuse's presence in the story may be to illustrate Laurel isn't always a perfect judge of character. That's just a guess on my part.

 

If all this sounds like bashing, I don't mean it to---Laurel's character is just less defined to me than Dix's, she is not as upfront about things and so I question her, that's all. She's not responsible for Dix's violence, not at all, but she is part of that relationship, and part of what provoked his anger, however unwittingly. She's no longer just her own woman when she chooses to be with a man, just as the guy is no longer simply his own man. They are to be for each other now. Thankfully, they both found that out before they married that they are not right together, if not in time to avoid heartache.

[MissGoddess]

>

> PS: April.... I know you are more sympathetic to poor old Dix than I am... and I DO see some of what you both are saying. He was a "complex' hothead, as you say. And I kept hoping and hoping he'd get past it all. But he just never did. I think I mentioned this before... I WANTED him to overcome his issues and end up happy. And I was pulling for him right up to the bitter end. But alas...

>

 

I completely understand, because I find this movie is very complicated, very...ha...GREY/GRAY. I can't exactly say I am "pulling for" anyone except maybe poor old Art Smith's "Mel". I do find myself drawn to Dix because he does have a rare kind of character. I give people a lot of slack, perhaps too much, who possess certain qualities. I just think that he has basically the same qualities that other characters which made Bogie famous possessed, but they are not presented quite the same, perhaps not as deeply. We see the consequences and causes under a microscope here.

 

> As to Laurel... and her share of the "guilt" for the way things turned out... I agree. Some of it DID fall on her... but I think mostly her biggest mistake was in listening to the wrong people... and in NOT trying to be honest w/ Dix about the doubts she was having over his behavior. If she had talked with him BEFORE he got mad.. and not spent so much time deceiving him (even if she was only doing it because she was afraid) I think he may have been able to take what she had to say much more calmly (at least a LOT less violently) than he did. So I can see where what she did may have led him to be angry... but as you say, I do not think her behavior is in any way responsible for HIS reaction. He went too far.

>

 

I agree his reactions were totally unacceptable. I don't think of her as guilty so much as the wrong kind of girl to get mixed up with a loose cannon like Dix. And yes, I do think there is a right kind of woman for Dix---I think he might settle down with a good, stable marriage with a woman who wouldn't put up with physical abuse. I only say that he's reformable because he has long term friendships with two people who's opinions I tend to value: Charlie and Mel. Those who were down on Dix tended to be people who's judgement I did not trust, such as the masseuse and his former girlfriend.

 

> There were other things too, that she did that may have played a factor in the way it all worked out, but I will wait to say more until others have a chance to weigh in. I am very interested in seeing how you and the others respond to the question that the grey dude asked about her. He raised an interesting point (about women being faithful to their men) I just need to see how much ROPE I need to give him before I let him hang himself! Ha.

>

 

I think any two people who agree to marry have to be for each other before they are for themselves.

 

> And ps... don't worry about agreeing w/ the SHADOW SQUIRREL.... ha. It happens to the best of us now and then. You have the "cure" just right... and a little "dab" will do ya...ha. Take five seconds of "Once Upon A Time in the Blah Blah Blah" (w/ 22 extreme closeup head shots... all in that same 5 second shot..ha) and you will feel like yourself in NO time..ha.

 

I feel MUCH more sure of my ground with that one, ha!!

[CineMaven]

I'm almoth thuffithently sloshed to take on owlllllllllllll comers. I'm on my thecond Bacardi.

[MissGoddess]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtJLZ2zL2Os

[laffite]

*Listen, there's no need to walk the plank (THIS TIME)!! Mr. G. and Ms. G. still want to talk with you about "IN A LONELY PLACE."*

 

I know...or at least I hope so.

 

Which rum are you on? Can you read this?

 

Oh don't mind me, I know you can.

 

*MissGoddess*: Very nice, very nice. I may wait for Frank and Molo to weigh in (or others) before I respond. I'm off Mon, Tue, Wed and back to work today, so I have less time for this but I will reading and mulling. If Frank and Molo have not responded by the time I'm back from work (late this evening), I may respond to what you wrote this AM, otherwise probably better to wait till I can read it all. Cheers.

[CineMaven]

<hiccup!!>

[molo14]

I've written a lot about this film already. I'm keeping my mouth shut until I watch it again tonight. There are a few things I want to revisit. I'll be back with comments sometime tomorrow.

[FrankGrimes]

Good evening, Toastmaker -- Don't you burn my crust!

 

No way... I'm not fallin' for THAT one, buster... I KNOW how you are.

 

I actually had that commercial in mind, too.

 

When someone or something upsets him, he just REACTS without thinking. And his reaction it is not anywhere close to appropriate for the "offense" that caused him to get mad.

 

Dix is pretty much male anger in the flesh. Many guys feel how Dix feels but most of us would never act on our feelings. Dix is a very honest man... too honest.

 

And as for the run in w/ the football player... I'm sticking w/ my story and glad to have the pirate on my side... Dix was WAY out of line. That kid was an innocent bystander who just had the guts to speak up for himself. (And it cost him dearly) If it had not been for Laurel, I truly believe Dix would have killed him. There is no way you can justify that as any sort of righteous anger at being "disrespected". (but you are going to try.. aren't you???? ha)

 

Dix told "Joe College" to "take it easy." Then the guy throws the "$200 paint job" line at Dix. If Dix's anger is over the top, I believe "Joe College's" is also way over the top. And then "Joe College" shoves this in the face of Dix:

 

 

So tough boy likes to talk tough but he sure can't back it up. He challenged Dix and got his just desserts. I have no sympathy for "Joe College." He "ought to." Yeah, you ought to. And if he would have said, "you could have killed me," I would be for him. But he was worried about his precious paint job. The heck with that.

 

As to Laurel... and her share of the "guilt" for the way things turned out... I agree. Some of it DID fall on her... but I think mostly her biggest mistake was in listening to the wrong people... and in NOT trying to be honest w/ Dix about the doubts she was having over his behavior. If she had talked with him BEFORE he got mad.. and not spent so much time deceiving him (even if she was only doing it because she was afraid) I think he may have been able to take what she had to say much more calmly (at least a LOT less violently) than he did. So I can see where what she did may have led him to be angry.

 

Nicely done! That is precisely it. Trust. Who are you going to believe, the man you love or everyone else? If your answer is not your man, you and he are in trouble.

 

Good evening, Miss Gray -- I think I know where Grimes is going with his suppositions...and though it practically chokes me to write this, for once I am in agreement with him on all points...so far, anyway. I won't give away his case prematurely, but I do see where Laurel could have sowed some of the seeds of destruction in her relationship with Dix.

 

Uh-oh. Why is it that I feel a knife is about to be plunged into my back?

 

As to "junior" and "Joe College",

 

I love your "Joe College"! I had to steal that one. That's perfect.

 

I admit I always thought Dix's response was way out of proportion, and still feel that way, but I also agree with Frank that there is also Dix's legitimate side to the situation. I do believe Ray was making some commentary about the changed world in the 1950s (including indifference to any sacrifices made by servicemen or others). Just look at another of Ray's movies where he makes a similar point about a character and his combative relationship with his world---Dix and Jim Wilson of On Dangerous Ground are not so very different. Dix is feeling the world is against him. He no doubt can see himself in Charlie Waterman, and sees the insults to Charlie as personal and reflecting on himself in a general sense of disrespect of anything that came before.

 

That was wonderful. Dix is clearly different than "Junior" or "Joe College" or Lloyd (Morris Ankrum). He's coming from a different place, yes, what has come to be a lonely place. Charlie Waterman is most like Dix in that both are very honest but they are also very self-destructive. They are struggling with today.

 

Like Grimes said, he's a man of honest reactions and emotions functioning in a world, particularly Hollywood but broader than that, where his kind are not valued, not respected.

 

You got it, girl. In a lonely place.

 

None of this justifies the violence, but, to me, it explains what provokes his resentment and anger.

 

This is correct. There is no justification for his violent temper, but there is justification for his temper.

 

I also may be naive, but I think it's possible a loving, stable marriage might assuage his violent impulses.

 

Quite possibly. Dix stops when Laurel asks him to stop. She has power over him.

 

However, Laurel was not a stable woman, we're told that from the start. She's a get-out-quick when things get tough kind of girl. So is most of the world. Such people then have to live with the consequences for they contribute to the way things are and even to the way the Dix Steeles in the world react.

 

I agree with this. I hope to explain my view of Laurel.

 

Whew! Sorry, I didn't start out intending to write so much. Especially so much in agreement with FrankGrimes!

 

You're not going to deceive me now, are you?

 

I do like Laurel as a character, she's very attractive and cool, but she's a bit sphinxlike to me. I'm not sure what she wants. This makes me want to find out what makes her tick and it also appears, to me at least, that there is a reason such a character is put in the story to be with Dixon Steele. If it were all about Dix's ungovernable rage issues, then why not just give him a sweet, relatively simple girlfriend or a straighforward type like Bacall? Instead we're given a much deeper and more complex person called Laurel Gray. I'd forgotten her last name, by the way. "Gray", well, we've gone into that here quite a bit, ha! And "Steele"---it's hard, bright, clean and potentially deadly.

 

That was spectacular! It's one of the best comments I've read about In a Lonely Place. I believe you are quite correct. If we are to believe Laurel is pure and innocent, she should have been presented to us just as you say. But Laurel has her own issues and I believe she is the most guilty character in the film. Dix is reactive. He doesn't just lose his lid over nothing. Something has to set him off. Laurel lights his fuse.

 

Laurel is a mystery to me. The only person in the movie that knows her is a person that I felt an instant antipathy toward. Why does Laurel keep that creepy masseuse around? Maybe that's what sent me on the the trail of her mixed emotions. She seems to allow that woman to influence her, regardless of her leaving the "tycoon" against her wishes---and the masseuse's wishes are clearly all about what profit she herself can get out of the relationship. Are we to credit the masseuse's critique of Dixon Steele? Was she telling Laurel the truth about him, as a warning, or was she planting gossip in her mind to get her back to the tycoon so she can sponge some more? Why does Laurel keep such a person in her life?

 

Martha (Ruth Gillette) tells us why Laurel keeps her in her life:

 

 

Martha is no good. She is out for self and she hides this behind a mask of "caring."

 

If all this sounds like bashing, I don't mean it to---Laurel's character is just less defined to me than Dix's, she is not as upfront about things and so I question her, that's all.

 

 

[MissGoddess]

I'm so glad you posted that screencap!! I had forgotten to mention that when I saw In a Lonely Place recently on the big screen, that scene struck me differently because I noticed how the kid was actually a hot head himself, who provoked an actual fight, and that before that, Dix said "take it easy".

 

And good point about the paint job. I thought that was a neat little way of the director showing where "priorities" lay in the brave new world. Material things were becoming more important than human beings. One of the more interesting aspects of Ray's Rebel Without a Cause is how he uses automobiles almost as symbols of power and competitiveness among young males. Dix doesn't come from that world. His value lies within himself, and in his talent, not what he owns or anything outside of himself. Hearing this kid whine about a $200 paint job must have really made him flip.

 

There's a similar scene with Spencer Tracy in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner.

 

 

>

> I love your "Joe College"! I had to steal that one. That's perfect.

>

 

And I stole it from Bogart himself. In the movie Sabrina, his character refers to himself as "Joe College with a touch of arthritis."

 

>

> Dix is clearly different than "Junior" or "Joe College" or Lloyd (Morris Ankrum). He's coming from a different place, yes, what has come to be a lonely place. Charlie Waterman is most like Dix in that both are very honest but they are also very self-destructive. They are struggling with today.

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Beautifully said. Charlie's character has pathos, because he is resigned. Dix is harder to get your arms around because he's a little younger and a whole lot feistier about this situation...he's not ready to take things laying down. If they're going to take him out he's going to get in his punches first, is what I see. Both may end up at the bottom of the bottle.

 

 

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> Quite possibly. Dix stops when Laurel asks him to stop. She has power over him.

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Yes, until she breaks his trust, she reaches him. That's why I think a stronger girl than her could help Dix get to where he would have more consistent hold on his behavior.

 

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> You're not going to deceive me now, are you?

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The name is Lane, not Gray, MISTER GREY.

 

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> That was spectacular! It's one of the best comments I've read about In a Lonely Place. I believe you are quite correct. If we are to believe Laurel is pure and innocent, she should have been presented to us just as you say. But Laurel has her own issues and I believe she is the most guilty character in the film. Dix is reactive. He doesn't just lose his lid over nothing. Something has to set him off. Laurel lights his fuse.

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If she were more confrontational, or upfront, he wouldn't have flipped out I'm sure. The timing of their relationship is also part of the problem. He's under supsicion of murder and his entire career rests on whether he can produce a filmable screenplay. His whole world is doubting him and in walks a woman who restores his sense of balance, until....

 

If the other two factors were not currently in play, he probably would have been more relaxed and maybe then he and Laurel would have been okay.

 

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> Martha (Ruth Gillette) tells us why Laurel keeps her in her life:

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So Laurel is dependent on her in a way. She is the first person she calls when she plans to get away. Talk about from the frying pan into the fire...

 

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> Martha is no good. She is out for self and she hides this behind a mask of "caring."

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She's so gross to me. If she didn't do what she does, I see her as a "Madame".

 

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Wow! For the first time I actually understand what those lines mean...when I was watching it at the theater and every other time I've seen it, I felt those words had to mean something more. How stupid I didn't realize it's very simply about Laurel and Dix. Dix is transparent, Laurel is harder to read. And she does sort of "compile evidence" against Dix without his knowledge, just as she can watch what he's doing without his knowing.