Gloria Grahame a complete package

[FrankGrimes]

I'm stunned. I don't know if I can answer your questions. I feel this movie on an emotional level.

 

I understand.

 

Lord help the girl who slips with you.

 

You're right. I'm a very violent man. The worst.

[CineMaven]

I'm stunned. I don't know if I can answer your questions. I feel this movie on an emotional level.

 

I understand.

 

Lord help the girl who slips with you.

 

You're right. I'm a very violent man. The worst.

 

Her neck is safe, but her heart will be broken to a million pieces. Let me see the movie again and re-group. Right now I'm going on fumes.

[FrankGrimes]

Her neck is safe, but her heart will be broken to a million pieces.

 

No need to worry. I won't be around anyone's heart to break it into a million pieces. But there is great irony with what you say. I'm smiling.

 

Let me see the movie again and re-group. Right now I'm going on fumes.

 

Since I'm the nut, here it is in a nutshell, to me:

 

Dix and Laurel fall in love.

 

Laurel listens to others.

 

Laurel is unfaithful to Dix.

 

Dix validates Laurel's fears with the "Joe College" beating.

 

Laurel lies more than ever out of fear.

 

Dix flips out over Laurel's constant lying.

 

If you watch the film from Dix's point of view, what you'll see is him being happy in love then his feeling betrayed by the one he loves. He forgives her and moves on. He asks her to marry him, she accepts, and this makes him the happiest man in the world. He then learns that's she's lying to him about everything. He flips out. Dix is in the dark. He's out in the open with who he is, but Laurel isn't. She's hiding everything.

 

At the end of the film, I completely understand Laurel's need to lie for fear of her life. But Dix doesn't know this is why she is lying. All he knows is she's lying to him. I would feel different if Dix was aware of why she was acting as she was.

 

Basically, Dix is always left in the dark. I wouldn't feel for him if I saw him smack someone around for telling him the truth. Then I'd have no sympathy for him. But all of his angry reactions are provoked by people challenging him or disrespecting his friend or going behind his back.

 

I certainly don't condone Dix's violence as the answer to his anger. But I understand his anger. He was stabbed in the back by the one he loves. Can it get any worse than that?

[JackFavell]

> *Come on, the last line was a joke! Now Jackaaaaay, hit me with a brunette picture of Margaret Lindsay for my Margaret Lindsay thread in "Your Favorites." Thanx!*

 

Done! And there are more to come....

 

 

> *Edited by: CineMaven on Nov 11, 2009 2:42 PM b'cuz I want to add a reminder to see Robert Ryan today at 4:45pm in "Act of Violence" and at 6:30pm at "Bad Day of Black Rock."*

 

I "Set-Up" the recorder already. Now pray it records everything! I have already seen Bad Day and loved it, but haven't watched from a Ryan viewpoint.... Thanks for the reminder.

[CineMaven]

Hold on ... hold on... I'm supposed to see the movie from THAT viewpoint. Why you're almost as bad as Brub's wife. You'd get Laurel killed in her sleep.

 

I certainly don't condone Dix's violence as the answer to his anger. But I understand his anger. He was stabbed in the back by the one he loves. Can it get any worse than that?

 

Heck, it almost did. Can't Dix just calm down. Calm down. If he bases full-blown betrayal by her not mentioning Laurel was summoned by the cops and she didn't tell him...I dunno dude. I dunno.

 

But look, why not let your lady friends check out the movie and see what THEY say.

 

Don't cry if they head for the hills... :-(

[butterscotchgreer]

*Hold on ... hold on... I'm supposed to see the movie from THAT viewpoint. Why you're almost as bad as Brub's wife. You'd get Laurel killed in her sleep.*

 

Heehee! that made me laugh, Cinie-T!!! thats tellin' him! Frankie WOULD get Laurel killed in her sleep!

[FrankGrimes]

Hold on ... hold on... I'm supposed to see the movie from THAT viewpoint. Why you're almost as bad as Brub's wife. You'd get Laurel killed in her sleep.

 

Why? Dix loved her.

 

But look, why not let your lady friends check out the movie and see what THEY say.

 

You mean like Snippy?

 

Don't cry if they head for the hills...

 

Ohhh, that's right, she wants to shove me off a cliff.

 

Heck, it almost did. Can't Dix just calm down. Calm down. If he bases full-blown betrayal by her not mentioning Laurel was summoned by the cops and she didn't tell him...I dunno dude. I dunno.

 

His life is at stake. That's pretty darn important. She needs to be honest with him. Being dishonest about issues that are very important to the person you love is a serious betrayal.

 

Speaking of betrayal:

 

 

 

Are we to feel for Leslie?

[laffite]

*Lafitte, ya had me until you mentioned Dix & Effie could have been an item.*

 

That was a spoof, Cinemaven. But maybe you know that and are spoofing back, yes?

 

*"Battle-axes" like Martha often get maligned in movies. They're not the pretty petite cutesy size 4's. Not crazy about the term (battle-axe) either.*

 

Sorry, bad term. No harm intended. I give the impression that I like to make up words for people and that?s not good. I meant that Ray might have thought it was visually interesting to have a heavyset (better?) tough talking woman as a confidant (friend, whatever) and to capitalize with those scenes as presented, which were entertaining in themselves besides serving their function in he movie.

 

Cinemaven, I like the manner in which you put your points across. You and I are fundamentally in agreement in defending Laural and I like the way you informally and breezily couch the issues in a recognizably realistic way that is very effective. You say the same or very similar things than I do but with a lot less words than I and with probably a lot more punch.

 

///

[CineMaven]

Lafitte, ya had me until you mentioned Dix & Effie could have been an item.

 

That was a spoof, Cinemaven. But maybe you know that and are spoofing back, yes?

 

Actually, I really thought you were serious. Sorry. Guess I lost my sense of humor while reading. Your writing was so persuasive. How'd I miss the joke in that one.

 

"Battle-axes" like Martha often get maligned in movies. They're not the pretty petite cutesy size 4's. Not crazy about the term (battle-axe) either.

 

?Sorry, bad term. No harm intended. I give the impression that I like to make up words for people and that?s not good. I meant that Ray might have thought it was visually interesting to have a heavyset (better?) tough talking woman as a confidant (friend, whatever) and to capitalize with those scenes as presented, which were entertaining in themselves besides serving their function in (the) movie.?

 

Ohhhkay. There was an interesting counterpoint in the two ladies? appearance. And like I said, I liked this idea better than meeting at a beauty parlor or manicure to dish. But the deeper and more serious meaning is not lost to me that Martha was ?whispering? doubtful thoughts to Laurel.

 

?Cinemaven, I like the manner in which you put your points across. You and I are fundamentally in agreement in defending Laural and I like the way you informally and breezily couch the issues in a recognizably realistic way that is very effective. You say the same or very similar things than I do but with a lot less words than I and with probably a lot more punch.?

 

I say fresh things in a long and winding manner. But I do try to be entertaining, informative, personable, non-intrusive, non-hoity toity and show my love for movies. Thank you so much for the compliment. Glad you?re on Laurel?s side. I?m probably not the best second for you in the duel for Laurel?s honor (too emotional for my own good)...

[CineMaven]

Hold on ... hold on... I'm supposed to see the movie from THAT viewpoint. Why you're almost as bad as Brub's wife. You'd get Laurel killed in her sleep.

 

Why? Dix loved her.

 

Oy!

 

--

 

But look, why not let your lady friends check out the movie and see what THEY say.

 

You mean like Snippy?

 

No no...I meant your lady friends in your real life. You do have lady friends in your real life, right?

 

--

 

Don't cry if they head for the hills...

 

Ohhh, that's right, she wants to shove me off a cliff.

 

I?m shocked that she hasn?t done that already. But you?re friends now...on the same side. You know, the ol?...the enemy of my enemy is my friend....

 

--

 

Heck, it almost did. Can't Dix just calm down. Calm down. If he bases full-blown betrayal by her not mentioning Laurel was summoned by the cops and she didn't tell him...I dunno dude. I dunno.

 

?His life is at stake. That's pretty darn important. She needs to be honest with him. Being dishonest about issues that are very important to the person you love is a serious betrayal.?

 

Maybe I?m just objecting to the word ?betrayal'. It?s too loaded. But I understand this act is the lynchpin of your argument.

--

 

?Speaking of betrayal:?

 

Wait a minute. NO FAIR!! You?re bringing up Leslie Crosbie and comparing her to Laurel??? You're using the screencaps for evil purposes, why you...

 

<Sigh[/b]>[/b]

 

Noooooo, we?re NOT to feel sorry for Leslie. She was unfaithful to her husband; physically unfaithful to her husband. She didn?t tell a little white lie; she blew apart her marriage vows. She committed murder...in cold blood. And then at the very end...she tells her husband to his face that she still loves the man she killed; in effect kills her husband. Don?t cry for her Argentina. Leslie Crosbie deserved what she got.

[FrankGrimes]

Why? Dix loved her.

 

Oy!

 

So what did Dix do to Laurel prior to the very end? I'm confused. Did she do anything to him?

 

No no...I meant your lady friends in your real life. You do have lady friends in your real life, right?

 

No. I don't have any lady friends. I wouldn't know what to do with a lady.

 

I?m shocked that she hasn?t done that already. But you?re friends now...on the same side. You know, the ol?...the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

Don't worry, we're a Dodsworth or Donovan's Reef ramble away from becoming enemies.

 

Maybe I?m just objecting to the word ?betrayal'. It?s too loaded. But I understand this act is the lynchpin of your argument.

 

From "The Free Dictionary":

 

Betrayal: To deliver into the hands of an enemy in violation of a trust or allegiance.

 

Wait a minute. NO FAIR!! You?re bringing up Leslie Crosbie and comparing her to Laurel???

 

Leslie would be Dix, not Laurel. Leslie felt betrayed. What do you think of Irena (Simone Simon in Cat People)? She's another who feels betrayed. How about Scottie (James Stewart in Vertigo)? He's another who feels betrayed.

 

You're using the screencaps for evil purposes, why you...

 

That's because I AM evil! Boo!

 

Noooooo, we?re NOT to feel sorry for Leslie. She was unfaithful to her husband; physically unfaithful to her husband. She didn?t tell a little white lie; she blew apart her marriage vows. She committed murder...in cold blood. And then at the very end...she tells her husband to his face that she still loves the man she killed; in effect kills her husband. Don?t cry for her Argentina. Leslie Crosbie deserved what she got.

 

Uh-oh! I actually feel sympathy for Leslie. I understand why she loses it. I don't condone what she does, but I understand it. She's been hurt.

[rohanaka]

Being dishonest about issues that are very important to the person you love is a serious betrayal.

 

Ok.... I agree with your statement in general, Mr. Grey... but I don't agree (as you already know) that Laurel was "betraying" Dix so much as she let him down. I really DO think she was more or less of a mindset that she THOUGHT she was doing him a favor (by NOT bringing it up all over again) but it all backfired on her because not only did it cause him to feel she was being "untrue" but it also allowed her to become susceptable to all the suggestion and inuendo that was going on all around her. It was a BIG mistake. But I do not see it as a betrayal. To me that implies a willfull act of purposely working against someone. And I DON'T see her doing that

 

I think (from all I am seeing you write about Laurel) that you seem to be placing a LOT of heavy blame on this mixed up mess of a gal. (YOU of all people... the GREYest of the GREY... how very black and white of you..ha)

 

And while she WAS wrong in so many ways, I don't think she had any sort of sinister intent to mislead or misrepresent herself to Dix. And I really don't think she set out to BETRAY him. I think she got in over her head and I think she just was NOT a strong enough person to handle all the "issues" that came along with Dix and his life. She had too many of her own.

 

I think her failure to tell Dix about her inteview w/ the police was an error in judgement. I think she SHOULD have told him the truth. And obviously in HINDSIGHT she learned that lesson too late. But I don't think she withheld the truth from him out of some sense of "I'm going to betray this man and mislead him"

 

But the troubles at the beach and the fight w/ Joe College were the end result of her mistake, and from that point on, her other attempts to withhold her true feelings from him (about the doubts she was having) were borne out of her fears (based on what she was seeing from DIX's own behavior) and from piecing together the things she had heard others say. So again, I don't see her as being sinister and betraying him so much as I see her as a weak and flawed person who made some honest mistakes.

 

Was she wrong not to 'clear the air" and really talk it all out with him? Of course she was. But another thing to consider is that he obvioulsy had big issues dealing with the truth (when he did not want to hear it) so he may not have listened to her anyway. He could STILL have reacted in anger and the end result would have been the same.

 

I think (if I am reading you right) you see Dix as the victim in all of this, and I just can't see him that way. Let's face it. Laurel was NOT the only one making mistakes. And Dix had a LOT of issues. He was not just some poor innocent guy. He had a LOT of "baggage".

 

I think in the end, they BOTH let each other down.

 

But hey, I also know that at the end of the day, I am not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me. But the best part is, we don't HAVE to. I enjoy getting to see a glimpse of all the varying ideas and opinions that one film can create. That is what makes all these chats so much fun.

 

Hey.. Let's ride over to the FURIES and visit Rip and Vance...ha THEY were EASY to figure out compared to THESE two. ha.

[FrankGrimes]

Good evening, Quiet Gal -- but I don't agree (as you already know) that Laurel was "betraying" Dix so much as she let him down. I really DO think she was more or less of a mindset that she THOUGHT she was doing him a favor (by NOT bringing it up all over again) but it all backfired on her because not only did it cause him to feel she was being "untrue" but it also allowed her to become susceptable to all the suggestion and inuendo that was going on all around her. It was a BIG mistake. But I do not see it as a betrayal. To me that implies a willfull act of purposely working against someone. And I DON'T see her doing that.

 

I agree, I don't think Laurel wanted to viciously stick a knife in Dix's back. But that's what she ended up doing. That was the end result. And she knew what she was doing was wrong because she starts to lie to cover up her mistake, including the hope that the Nicolai's will also lie for her. One lie leads to another to another...

 

I think (from all I am seeing you write about Laurel) that you seem to be placing a LOT of heavy blame on this mixed up mess of a gal. (YOU of all people... the GREYest of the GREY... how very black and white of you..ha)

 

Ohhh, but I LOVE the character, "Laurel Gray." It's a great film noir character. She's a different kind of femme fatale. Like many others, she deceives and wrongs a man. What makes her so different than the rest is that she loves the man she wronged. She's in pain over the loss of her love. And it was her doing. It's such a tragic character and film. It's why it's one of the best films noir that I have seen, and easily one of my very favorites.

 

I think she got in over her head and I think she just was NOT a strong enough person to handle all the "issues" that came along with Dix and his life. She had too many of her own.

 

I agree with you, again. Laurel starts off as a strong woman but she soon turns weak. I love weak male characters in film noir and I also like the weak female ones, too.

 

But the troubles at the beach and the fight w/ Joe College were the end result of her mistake, and from that point on, her other attempts to withhold her true feelings from him (about the doubts she was having) were borne out of her fears (based on what she was seeing from DIX's own behavior) and from piecing together the things she had heard others say. So again, I don't see her as being sinister and betraying him so much as I see her as a weak and flawed person who made some honest mistakes.

 

More agreement! I don't think Laurel is an evil woman. It's exactly as you say, she is flawed just as Dix is flawed. Dix's (male) menace is external. Laurel's (female) menace is internal. Dix is too doggone honest. When he gets angry, he lets loose. There's no hiding with him. His chips are on the table, especially those on his shoulder. Laurel is the opposite. She's very dishonest. She hides, runs, and avoids. She's constantly looking to evade the truth versus facing it.

 

Was she wrong not to 'clear the air" and really talk it all out with him? Of course she was. But another thing to consider is that he obvioulsy had big issues dealing with the truth (when he did not want to hear it) so he may not have listened to her anyway. He could STILL have reacted in anger and the end result would have been the same.

 

What truth did Dix have a difficult time dealing with?

 

I think (if I am reading you right) you see Dix as the victim in all of this, and I just can't see him that way. Let's face it. Laurel was NOT the only one making mistakes. And Dix had a LOT of issues. He was not just some poor innocent guy. He had a LOT of "baggage".

 

Dix is a victim, but so is Laurel. Dix's violent temper cost him. Laurel's inability to think for herself cost her. Dix doesn't change, which is a problem. Laurel changes, which is a problem. They are very much alike yet they are polar opposites.

 

I think in the end, they BOTH let each other down.

 

We agree! But I really feel for Dix. The poor guy is kept in the dark the entire way. He has no idea what is going on with Laurel. No idea. I would absolutely flip out if my girl was constantly deceiving me when I had done nothing wrong to her.

 

But hey, I also know that at the end of the day, I am not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me. But the best part is, we don't HAVE to. I enjoy getting to see a glimpse of all the varying ideas and opinions that one film can create. That is what makes all these chats so much fun.

 

I really enjoy these discussions. I have loved the fact that In a Lonely Place and Night and the City have resulted in such a difference in opinions. I think that's wonderful. Although, I'm taking quite a beating.

 

I'm still stunned to find out Martha is viewed as a positive influence. That's like Mrs. Danvers (Judith Anderson in Rebecca) being good for the second Mrs. DeWinter (Joan Fontaine).

 

Hey.. Let's ride over to the FURIES and visit Rip and Vance...ha THEY were EASY to figure out compared to THESE two. ha.

 

That's good! Rip and Vance are selfish snakes! But you are the Queen of the Furies.

 

I still believe these words from Dix are very important:

 

 

 

 

 

You could say Dix was to blame for being so wrong about a dame. He'd probably agree with you, too.

[CineMaven]

THE PLOT ACCORDING TO FRANK GRIMES:

 

"Poor poor Dixon Steele. He is our victim. He was given an alibi for murder by a beautiful enigmatic blonde next door. Her name is Laurel Gray. They have the requisite witty repartee as boy-meet-girl in movies oft do. A ?meet cute? as it were. They smart-aleck their way out of the police station. Dix can?t be just grateful. Laurel is too beautiful, mesmerizing, cunning, evil. Oh nooo. Dix falls head over heels for her...hopelessly...desperately. She was his LAST CHANCE for HAPPINESS. Laurel KNEW she?d be Dix?s last chance for happiness, so she toyed with him. Oh yeah, he might?ve roughed up some other women, but no matter. He?s a man, a screenwriter; a Hollywood-type. That?s how they roll.

 

And what does that sphinxlike bombshell do? Why, she sticks a knife in Dix?s back. Never mind she cooked for him...typed for him and looked like a trophy for him. She kept her body toned for him by having her masseuse come by the house. (Can?t a girl have a friend?) But Laurel makes a tragic mistake. She stupidly, willfully, purposefully withheld one minor piece of information from Dix in order to give him some peace of mind. And what does Dix do? Dix was off to the races...he goes helter skelter...hitting college boys, hypnotizing friends to choke their wives...picking up hatcheck girls and not even being gentlemanly enough to take them home or physically PUT them in a cab. If Laurel loved him she?d tell the truth and nothing but the truth. If Laurel loved him she?d be forthright and honest and marry him. No time to talk. Put up or shut up, marry him OR ELSE!!!!

 

Oh the pressure our evil Lorelei puts on Dix. He?s unwell...she should have known this. Honesty would be the key to Dix?s salvation.

 

But it was not to be."

 

Folks, this is an excerpt of the 1950 film by Nicholas Ray called: ?IN A GRIMESY PLACE.? This plot was written by our Message Board?s very own: S.Frank Grimes. How he got Bogie and LaGrahame and the greenlight to get this movie produced is beyond me...but it?s a lesson for me to learn as a filmmaker and as a woman.

 

Stay tuned folks. Let?s see what other great iconic classic films Mr. Grimes can pull the wings off from and remove that hazy rose-coloured veil from our eyes.

[FrankGrimes]

Hey, that was really good! Very creative.

 

I like the part where Dix is given peace of mind by Laurel. Quite loving. I also like the part where Dix knew where he stood with Laurel. A guy always appreciates being in the dark. It gives him peace of mind. Laurel had his back.

[rohanaka]

What truth did Dix have a difficult time dealing with?

 

Oh there you go again, Mr Screencaps... ha. Holding me accountable with my every little word...ha. It's been a couple of weeks now since I watched the youtube of this movie... and I have not had a chance to go over it with the finetooth comb that you have (Ha) Maybe "truth" was the wrong choice of words. I probalby could have worded that better. I SHOULD have said he had issues with dealing with STRESS and a track record of buckling under pressure. He flew off the handle WAY too easily and THAT certainly COULD have been something that would have kept him from listening to her had she told him about her police visit. I am not saying SHE knew that yet, but I am saying that it might not have made much difference to them both in the end.

 

If she had said "this is what happened to me today, and this is what the police are still saying about you" blah blah blah.... it would have been the HONEST thing to do. But I think it was only a matter of time before Dix's personality flaws were going to come out... and she was going to get an EYEFULL of his "temper". And I think also HE too might have eventually found out HER issues as well.

 

And again, (I mentioned this earlier) they COULD have been married to one another before they both realized what a MISTAKE they were as a couple. So (no I am not saying the end always justifies the means) but I am saying that their real troubles were GOING to come out sooner or later.. and that pointing to THAT incident (her withholding the visit to the police) to me only gives it a "date". To me it does not lay the blame at her feet (the way you seem to see it)

 

It could JUST have easily been SOMETHING ELSE some other day, that set him off and made her run scared, because I think it was inevitable. His anger control problems (and her problems too) were GOING to come out SOMEHOW.

 

That's good! Rip and Vance are selfish snakes!

 

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah... HA!!

 

But you are the Queen of the Furies.

 

WHERE have I put my ROYAL Scissors??????????????????

 

PS: Miss Maven:

 

?IN A GRIMESY PLACE

 

HAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (and HA)

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 12, 2009 12:10 PM

[JackFavell]

> What truth did Dix have a difficult time dealing with?

 

The truth that he is a knuckle-headed squirrel.

[rohanaka]

The truth that he is a knuckle-headed squirrel

 

We HAVE a winner!! ha.

[MissGoddess]

You put up a great fight, Dix---I mean Mr. Squirrel, and I like the questions---largely unanswered---that you raised about an already thought provoking film. At the end of the day, I think Nicholas Ray would have given you a "Gold Star" for your efforts, too.

 

Now can we move on to Dodsworth so we can go back to mutual disagreement? This just hasn't felt natural!

[laffite]

I am now only aware that the discussion is apparently over and the thread is moving on, but I have already prepared this and I want to post it?after which I will be happy to be done with it. I've been trying to get the basher story straight and I have this comment. I know I have already posted several times and at some length but you have made me feel my way through this film and I want to weigh in on two points the Laural bashers like so much the Lochner visit as a betrayal and this notion that Laural is "listening to people." I don't buy either of these takes. Laural is not the culprit. If no one reads this, at least it's a part of the record

 

First, the Lochner visit and what follows:

 

Laural's visit to Lochner is a minor point. There is no importance to it at all. There is certainly no betrayal. The visit to the doctor is a MacGuffin. It only serves to move the story along. Here?s why:

 

After Brub?s wife spills the beans Dix turns to Laural and she says that she didn?t want to worry him (or whatever it was, I no longer have the DVD). Dix turns from her and looks a Brub who says that it was just routine. This indicates to Dix that Laural was called to the police station and he understands immediately that she did not go there willingly. There is nothing to indicate that he is angry at Laural at all. He instinctively knows she wouldn?t betray him. Instead he turns to Brub and says, ?So you still think I did it, huh!? He is angry at Brub and the police, not Laural. This is indicated later in the story when he goes to the police station and says to Brug, ?The next time you want information, talk to me.? He did not go to Laural and say, ?Why did you talk to the police?? He is not mad at Laural at all going talking to the police. If he had any thought she had and certainly any idea at all that she was engaged in any act of betrayal, there would have been dire consequences, given Dix?s anger and insecurity.

 

When Laural lights a cigarette for him in the car he looks at her with a sort of sigh that suggests, ?Oh, not now, for Heaven?s sake.? He doesn?t look at her with fury as if he thinks she has betrayed him or even that he mad at her. And he allows her to intervene when he about to bash the kid. Would he respond to her like that if he was furious and thought he had been betrayed. In the car she says, ?Was that so bad that he called you that? (paraphrase) and he says nothing to her. There is an opportunity for him to say something to her about the police visit, but he doesn?t say anything about that. Instead he talks about the screenplay and those lines of poetry. He is not mad at her and the police visit is forgotten. It Is a MacGuffin. Up to that point the movie had reached an equilibrium. They were in love and happy and something had to happen to get the story along. It never comes up again. So much for betrayal.

 

(The notion that he was mad at her and forgave he so quickly is almost silly. That?s not an accurate assumption of a man like Dix.)

 

If we can see, as we did, that she was forced to go to the police station and if even Dix does not make hay of it, then it is not accurate to make any assumptions that Laural betrayed Dix. Dix doesn?t believe it so should we?

 

And this:

 

*Betrayal: To deliver into the hands of an enemy in violation of a trust or allegiance.*

 

Honestly, it is preposterous to attribute this to Laural, in fact, ridiculous.

 

Laural is accused of ?listening to people? and thereby somehow betraying him. But she didn?t listen to them. She loved Dix and did not believe what they were saying to her about Dix. Can we give her some credit for that before we impose this sweeping generality that she started ?listening to people,? and then characterizing that as a betrayal of some sort?

 

After she became afraid of Dix she was forced to reflect and from then on she was not listening to them so much as being haunted by them. And even then she resisted mightily. She did not want any part of this talk about Dix being a bad man, a violent man. Her desire to rid herself of these notions is motivated by her undying love for Dix. Does this sound like betrayal?

 

We get the scene with Brub?s wife. Laural wants desperately to be told that there is nothing to worry about. She airs her feelings to her friend in a way she is deathly afraid to do with Dix and she says so? ?How can I marry you if I think you killed Mildred?, etc. (paraphrase) She wants to be laughed and told there is nothing to worry about. But Brub?s wife doesn?t laugh. End of scene. Does this sound like betrayal?

 

Yes, her behaviour is being influenced by these people but these influences are subordinate to importance of the extent that fear has taken conrol of her. She is fear driven and her fear came from Dix. If you want to pin this ?listening to people? charge on her and interpret in some negative light, then you have to ignore the story, and the story is that by this time laural is gripped with fear and that is why she is acting the way she is, not because she is betraying or acting against Dix in any way. Her motivation for all this is her love for Dix. If you can? believe that, the God help you!

 

The marriage proposal scene becomes his worst moment to date, even worse than bashing JoeC, the latter a mere loss of temper. Here we see Dix began to unravel. We see his insecurity, his possessiveness, and his desire for control. He is so self obsessed that he is incapable of seeing Laural correctly. It is hard to believe that he even loves her here, although we know he does, at least the best he knows how. But his insecurity does not allow him to see why she is resisting his rush to the altar. His insecurity does not allow him to ask her ?Why? when she suggests waiting. He is too afraid of losing her. So much so that he forces a yes from her. He is at a point here when he will not take no for an answer, ??a simple yes or no, will do.? She understands only to well that she must say yes because quite simply she is terrified to say no. Can you blame her? Look at the way the scene ends, he is holding her chin with some God awful look on his face, a sort of perverse triumph. He as gotten his way. He doesn?t really love her here, he simply wants her to fill this emptiness that he feels inside and has always felt. And she knows it. She can feel it. She is much more aware than he is of what?s actually happening here.

 

She is the one who is aware. Dix is the one who?s hiding. Hiding within himself.

 

We see her on the phone trying to get a hold of Martha. She is clearly terrified. We get it all in the scene with Mel. She is so upfront. She doesn?t hide anything. It?s Dix that is doing all the hiding. He is hiding himself, from Laural, from everybody, and he always has. After all the clues he might have picked up from Laural he can only say at the bar, ?She is acting strangely lately,? indicating that he can see she is different but not wanting to know why. He does not want to why because he is afraid. He is motivated by his own inward fear, not by anyone else.

 

There is a moment in Laural?s room in the end where something might have happened. Dix is sorry for his behaviour at the restaurant and he sits in the chair like a child and apologizes. Despite all her fear, despite the fact that she is planning to leave him, despite the fact that the letter is on bureau, despite the fact that she has spent a considerable amount of time with a parlysing fear, despite all this she still has enough in her to soften up and approach him and offer him a cigarette. Look at her as she approaches him. She might have forgiven him everything.

 

Does this sound like a woman who has spent the whole movie betraying him?

 

But it instead of responding to this wonderful gesture, he notices the ring isn?t on her finger. He goes off again and even wonders if Laural has somebody in the room. There never has been an issue of Laural seeing someone else so Dix, in his insecurity and possessiveness, begins to make stuff up. The look he has on his face when he almost lights the cigarette suggests madness and we know what happens next.

 

Laural has not betrayed anybody. She loved Dix the whole way and she did it through fear. To say she torpedoes the relationship is actually quite silly.

 

If you maintain that Dix is justified by how he felt and that he was driven by others to do what he did and is therefore blameless and it?s everybody else?s fault, then you are saying that he should not take responsibility for himself. He does not take responsibility but wants to blame everybody else. This is why he acts the way he does. He is doing it to himself. No one is doing it to him.

 

Dix is being virtually in world of his own. He does what he wants and he happy so long as he getting his way. During these good times he can show a tenderness towards Laural and appear to love her very much. But early in the living room scene he grabs Laural?s chin and says, ?You?ll do what I say and nothing but? (paraphrase) so even at these good times he is asserting control. Laural is not worried about this at the time because they are happy and in love.

 

But when things go wrong he blames others. He is insecure and must blame others. He cannot take responsibility. He blames the college boy without realizing that he was driving recklessly. He almost kills Mel when he suggest professional help. He is unable to see the effect that he is having on Laural and by doing so he can?t do anything to keep her from shying away from him. Laural is not doing anything to him so much as he is doing it to himself. And he is responsible for his eventual breakdown---and that?s what it was---a breakdown. In his mind he thinks everybody is against him but he has to take responsibility for that. It?s not anyone else?s fault, and especially not Laural?s.

 

I sincerely don?t believe that Nicholas Ray made a movie here with the intent to show that a man has been taken down by a woman, especially a man who seems so disturbed and as flawed Dix is represented to be. And he had not made a movie about a woman who takes a man down. Laural is not a femme fatale! There are those here who are really fond of noir and should know that.

 

////

[FrankGrimes]

That was a phenomenal reply, Laffite. It's the best I've ever seen written on In a Lonely Place. Very nicely done.

 

And I do mean that. You're not going to see me use words like "silly" and "ridiculous" or tell you don't have an idea about anything. That's not me.

 

When I get some time tonight, I'd like to reply to your wonderful, very thoughtful post.

 

 

 

[laffite]

*You're not going to see me use words like "silly" and "ridiculous" or tell you don't have an idea about anything. That's not me.*

 

I apologize for that. It was uncalled for. It's not me either...normally. But I goofed. A little overzealous in the language. I'll probably eat those words.

 

And an apology to all as well. I know we don't do that here. One thing I like about here is the level of civility and as we know this isn't always the case with online forums. I have violated the etiquette and I apologize, it won't happen again.

 

And I hope that in the last few days I have been okay. I have found the IALP experience invigorating and I hope have not come across brusque or contentious. I fear I may have. If so, sorry. I would feel really bad if I were to alienate any of you because of anything of this nature. It would be a loss and I would feel it.

 

And Frank, I was going to PM on you on this but I'll just mention briefly that it's particularly galling to me to speak to you like that because of all the folks here you are one that really helped me in the early going of my time here. Back then I used to hop around and post here and there without really knowing anyone and one day I "interrupted" a discussion over in the "torture" thread and you were so welcoming and encouraged me to interrupt any time I pleased and it was through your kindness that I met some of the others here who I know, say, a bit better than many of the others here. That little experience sprung me out a bit and helped open me up and I've never forgotten it. I've wanted to tell you that for some time and thought I would some day and here it is, not under the best circumstances perhaps but I am able to say it nonetheless, thank you.

 

You have already punctured a hole in my scheme things with that screen cap. I am sans DVD now but you have point there, I didn't remember Dix saying that. (sigh)

 

//

[FrankGrimes]

Hey, Super Charger -- but you have made me feel my way through this film

 

Fantastic! That's what I like hearing. I have appreciated your words on the film, for you have written the most and the most eloquent. You have taken great time to share with us your take. That's something that is important to me. I really enjoy deep discussions.

 

You can ask Jackie (High Noon) or Rohanaka (The Furies) or Miss G (The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance) about my disagreements with them over films. We've had our little ones and our big ones and... they are fun. The reason they are fun is because I love hearing the opinions of others, ESPECIALLY if they are different than mine. I really like that. And I may disagree with them on one movie, and the next movie, we may be on the exact same page. It's the randomness of it all that is wonderful. But what's really the most wonderful part of it all is the people you are conversing with. That's the special part.

 

And I believe it's important to speak your honest feelings versus being vanilla or argumentative for argument's sake. All of the words I have written about In a Lonely Place have been my own and they are my honest feelings. As I said, many a moon ago, I saw the film differently. Well, it was you who finally got it out of me.

 

If no one reads this, at least it's a part of the record

 

I've read it, a few times. How am I to learn if I don't read what others are writing?

 

Laural's visit to Lochner is a minor point. There is no importance to it at all. There is certainly no betrayal. The visit to the doctor is a MacGuffin. It only serves to move the story along.

 

I respectfully disagree, for it's Lochner's words that first plant the seed of doubt in Laurel's mind. Her nightmare features Lochner's voice. Lochner's "warning" is the turning point in the film when it comes to Laurel going from a strong woman to a weak one. It also immediately follows her telling Dix she wouldn't trade her place with kings. She has never been happier in her life than when she was with Dix. It's when she leaves him, all heck breaks loose. Together, they are strong. Apart, they are weak.

 

After Brub?s wife spills the beans Dix turns to Laural and she says that she didn?t want to worry him (or whatever it was, I no longer have the DVD). Dix turns from her and looks a Brub who says that it was just routine. This indicates to Dix that Laural was called to the police station and he understands immediately that she did not go there willingly.

 

Dix isn't upset at Laurel's going to the station. He knows she has no say in that. He had to go to the station, too. What Dix is upset over is her NOT TELLING HIM.

 

There is nothing to indicate that he is angry at Laural at all. He instinctively knows she wouldn?t betray him.

 

 

 

 

Okay, I had some pointed questions in regards to this but I just saw your recent post, and I think you do acknowledge that Dix was angry and upset at Laurel.

 

Instead he turns to Brub and says, ?So you still think I did it, huh!? He is angry at Brub and the police, not Laural.

 

I respectfully disagree. I believe he's angry at them all, but mostly angry at Laurel.

 

If he had any thought she had and certainly any idea at all that she was engaged in any act of betrayal, there would have been dire consequences, given Dix?s anger and insecurity.

 

Again, I respectfully disagree. If you listen to Lochner and Martha, you would believe it would be dire consequences. But that's not the truth.

 

When Laural lights a cigarette for him in the car he looks at her with a sort of sigh that suggests, ?Oh, not now, for Heaven?s sake.? He doesn?t look at her with fury as if he thinks she has betrayed him or even that he mad at her. And he allows her to intervene when he about to bash the kid. Would he respond to her like that if he was furious and thought he had been betrayed.

 

Dix responds as how I think he would respond. He's very upset at Laurel because his driving fast is basically his blood pressure level. He's definitely angry. But he's dealing with his anger. He's not going to beat up Laurel. He loves her. Her's not a maniac. He's just a guy who is upset with his woman. While I don't know this feeling, I'm sure many others know what it feels like to be upset with the one you love.

 

In the car she says, ?Was that so bad that he called you that? (paraphrase) and he says nothing to her. There is an opportunity for him to say something to her about the police visit, but he doesn?t say anything about that. Instead he talks about the screenplay and those lines of poetry. He is not mad at her and the police visit is forgotten. It Is a MacGuffin. Up to that point the movie had reached an equilibrium. They were in love and happy and something had to happen to get the story along. It never comes up again. So much for betrayal.

 

Dix isn't going to use this one event to forever define his woman. He felt betrayed by Laurel, so he took off... with her, and now he's working through his anger. He eventually calms down. He loves the gal.

 

(The notion that he was mad at her and forgave he so quickly is almost silly. That?s not an accurate assumption of a man like Dix.)

 

If you believe Lochner and Martha, yes, I agree with you. Do you think Dix lets his anger linger? He's ALL about the release. Once released, he moves on. He doesn't bog himself down, like Laurel does. They are very much opposites with how they handle situations.

 

And this:

 

Betrayal: To deliver into the hands of an enemy in violation of a trust or allegiance.

 

Honestly, it is preposterous to attribute this to Laural, in fact, ridiculous.

 

Dix is a murder suspect and the Captain is attempting to pin a murder on him. From Dix's point of view, the Captain is the enemy. Laurel's not telling him the enemy asked her in for more questioning and told her horrible things about him is a violation of his trust and her allegiance to him. You see, I feel it's important to look at this from Dix's point of view. Can you place yourself in Dix's shoes? How would you feel if the woman you love and trust doesn't tell you something that is very important to you, whatever that may be?

 

Laural is accused of ?listening to people? and thereby somehow betraying him. But she didn?t listen to them. She loved Dix and did not believe what they were saying to her about Dix. Can we give her some credit for that before we impose this sweeping generality that she started ?listening to people,? and then characterizing that as a betrayal of some sort?

 

But I completely disagree with this. What did Laurel think of Dix BEFORE she listened to Lochner and Martha? What did Laurel think of Dix AFTER this? Why would Nicholas Ray have Lochner and Martha say these words to Laurel? What's his purpose?

 

After she became afraid of Dix she was forced to reflect and from then on she was not listening to them so much as being haunted by them. And even then she resisted mightily. She did not want any part of this talk about Dix being a bad man, a violent man. Her desire to rid herself of these notions is motivated by her undying love for Dix. Does this sound like betrayal?

 

I agree with this. And I love your usage of the word "haunted." That's terrific. Laurel was fighting her true desire to trust herself (strong) and her fear of the malicious words of others (weak). She was having a war inside of her. Would she be the strong woman we see at the start or the weak one she was starting to become? Which is to win out?

 

We get the scene with Brub?s wife. Laural wants desperately to be told that there is nothing to worry about. She airs her feelings to her friend in a way she is deathly afraid to do with Dix and she says so? ?How can I marry you if I think you killed Mildred?, etc. (paraphrase) She wants to be laughed and told there is nothing to worry about. But Brub?s wife doesn?t laugh. End of scene. Does this sound like betrayal?

 

The murder of Mildred is what is looming over her. Lochner and Martha both planted the seeds of Dix being the killer in her mind when she knows he wasn't. As Sylvia says...

 

 

The Laurel we first see speaks confidently. This Laurel is no longer confident. What changed? She knows Dix didn't kill Mildred. That's what she always said. What are we to believe with Laurel? When does she speak the truth about what she feels? She stops being Laurel and a mix of everyone else. Where did the "good guy" go?

 

He is not mad at her and the police visit is forgotten. It Is a MacGuffin. Up to that point the movie had reached an equilibrium. They were in love and happy and something had to happen to get the story along. It never comes up again. So much for betrayal.

 

Yes, her behaviour is being influenced by these people but these influences are subordinate to importance of the extent that fear has taken conrol of her. She is fear driven and her fear came from Dix. If you want to pin this ?listening to people? charge on her and interpret in some negative light, then you have to ignore the story, and the story is that by this time laural is gripped with fear and that is why she is acting the way she is, not because she is betraying or acting against Dix in any way. Her motivation for all this is her love for Dix. If you can? believe that, the God help you!

 

 

 

Is the police visit forgotten? What is Lochner doing to them? Is he locking them in a room and beating them with a stick? I'd really like an answer to this question: what is it that Lochner is doing to them? And this is another very important question that needs to be answered: what has Dix done to Laurel at this point?

 

The marriage proposal scene becomes his worst moment to date, even worse than bashing JoeC, the latter a mere loss of temper. Here we see Dix began to unravel. We see his insecurity, his possessiveness, and his desire for control. He is so self obsessed that he is incapable of seeing Laural correctly.

 

How can he see her when she is nothing but deceptive? The guy is always kept in the dark. He absolutely loves her and he believes she loves him.

 

It is hard to believe that he even loves her here, although we know he does, at least the best he knows how.

 

He ADORES her! He's sacrificing all over the place for her. He doesn't want Effie to wake her, he helps turn off her alarm, he's concerned she is taking pills, he goes and makes breakfast for her. My goodness, he's completely committed to this woman. When he says that "anyone looking at us could tell we were in love," he means that. You see, Dix is very honest. He's not hiding his feelings. He loves Laurel and he believes she loves him. We, the audience, know different because we know Laurel is deceiving him. She's not telling him her true feelings. But Dix doesn't know this. Again, this isn't about us or Laurel, it's about Dix. Take Dix's point of view. He's in the dark.

 

But his insecurity does not allow him to see why she is resisting his rush to the altar. His insecurity does not allow him to ask her ?Why? when she suggests waiting. He is too afraid of losing her. So much so that he forces a yes from her. He is at a point here when he will not take no for an answer, ??a simple yes or no, will do.?

 

I believe that's because Dix is a straight-shooter. He's nothing but honest. He's black and white. "Yes or no." Laurel is gray. She's the "maybe" girl. Is Dix insecure? Yes, I'd say he is. He's certainly full of anxiety. Laurel has power over him.

 

She understands only to well that she must say yes because quite simply she is terrified to say no. Can you blame her?

 

No. I don't blame Laurel for lying out of fear. She let the outsiders win out, so she's now dealing with the consequences. Dix remains in the dark. He has no idea what is going on, nor should he. He hasn't done a thing but love Laurel since he's been with her.

 

Look at the way the scene ends, he is holding her chin with some God awful look on his face, a sort of perverse triumph. He as gotten his way. He doesn?t really love her here, he simply wants her to fill this emptiness that he feels inside and has always felt. And she knows it. She can feel it. She is much more aware than he is of what?s actually happening here.

 

I believe the kiss is more telling...

 

 

Dix kisses with his eyes closed while Laurel does so with them open. Dix's kiss is serious, heartfelt, and trusting. Laurel's kiss is unsure, deceptive, and distrusting. Dix remains in the dark. Blind trust.

 

She is the one who is aware. Dix is the one who?s hiding. Hiding within himself.

 

I respectfully disagree. I believe Dix is straightforward and honest from start to finish. He never changes. He doesn't hide his feelings and emotions. They all come bubbling to the surface. He's an open book. Laurel is the opposite.

 

But it instead of responding to this wonderful gesture, he notices the ring isn?t on her finger.

 

This is a very, very important moment. When a woman removes the ring of her man, it is a serious betrayal. The ring is a symbol of their binding love. To discard the ring is to discard the man and your love for each other. This is your knife to the back.

 

He goes off again and even wonders if Laural has somebody in the room. There never has been an issue of Laural seeing someone else so Dix, in his insecurity and possessiveness, begins to make stuff up.

 

And this is what lies do to a relationship. "If she is lying to me about this and lying to me about that, who's to say she isn't lying about everything?" Dix's wondering if a man is in the locked room is his speaking one of his greatest fears. Laurel never saw anyone else nor did Dix ever hurt her, to that point. Yet she's scared that he will. That's her fear.

 

Laural has not betrayed anybody. She loved Dix the whole way and she did it through fear.

 

I truly believe Laurel loves Dix and that's why it hurts her deeply when Lochner tells her Dix wasn't the killer. For...

 

To say she torpedoes the relationship is actually quite silly.

 

... she torpedoed their relationship. She should have trusted her own feelings and not listened to others. But she was a weak woman... and I don't blame her for being that. That's just who she is. Dix is "dynamite." That's who he is.

 

If you maintain that Dix is justified by how he felt and that he was driven by others to do what he did and is therefore blameless and it?s everybody else?s fault, then you are saying that he should not take responsibility for himself. He does not take responsibility but wants to blame everybody else. This is why he acts the way he does. He is doing it to himself. No one is doing it to him.

 

Dix's violent reactions are too much and are his fault. He needs to be tougher. His reasons for being angry are legit. Dix is no sweet little angel. I never said he was. And he tells you he isn't this, either. Again, he's very honest and easy to figure out. You just have to listen to what he says.

 

But when things go wrong he blames others. He is insecure and must blame others. He cannot take responsibility. He blames the college boy without realizing that he was driving recklessly. He almost kills Mel when he suggest professional help. He is unable to see the effect that he is having on Laural and by doing so he can?t do anything to keep her from shying away from him. Laural is not doing anything to him so much as he is doing it to himself. And he is responsible for his eventual breakdown---and that?s what it was---a breakdown. In his mind he thinks everybody is against him but he has to take responsibility for that. It?s not anyone else?s fault, and especially not Laural?s.

 

Dix does struggle with taking responsibility for his actions... sometimes. He also makes remorseful gestures, thus acknowledging guilt. So how many people are being honest to and about Dix? Lochner? Martha? Mel? Brub? Sylvia? Laurel? Two of them intimate he was the killer and four of them took part in concealing the truth from Dix. Did Dix lie to any of those people?

 

I sincerely don?t believe that Nicholas Ray made a movie here with the intent to show that a man has been taken down by a woman,

 

That sounds like a film noir with a femme fatale.

 

especially a man who seems so disturbed and as flawed Dix is represented to be.

 

Sounds like the perfect guy to sucker. It would make for a tragic story if he fell in love only to see his love and happiness undermined.

 

Laural is not a femme fatale! There are those here who are really fond of noir and should know that.

 

I'm fond of film noir and I believe she's a femme fatale.

 

I believe everything starts with DIX'S WORDS ABOUT LAUREL. This is what Dix thinks of Laurel:

 

"There she is, the one that's different. She's not coy, or cute, or corny. She's a good guy. I'm glad she's on my side. She speaks her mind. She knows what she wants."

 

What Dix is telling us is what he wants in a woman. He doesn't want a woman who plays games. He wants a woman who is loyal. He wants a woman who is willing to speak up. He wants a woman who is confident, unafraid, and willing to think for herself. He believes Laurel is all of these things. Laurel IS all of these things, at first. But she changes. Dix had Laurel pegged wrong. He made a mistake.

 

Laurel listens to the lies of others and then she lies to Dix. Lies are devastating blows (punches).

[FrankGrimes]

Hi, again, Laffite -- I apologize for that. It was uncalled for. It's not me either...normally. But I goofed. A little overzealous in the language. I'll probably eat those words.

 

You just did. There was no need to apologize to me, but I appreciate it, all the same. You just proved your being a man and a kind human being.

 

One of the things I always look for in a person is their ability to say they were wrong. That tells me a lot.

 

I've had to make my share of apologies here. One of my first apologies was to Bronxie. I was a bit too fresh for her with my "hands" and she let me know about it. She knows a louse when she sees one.

 

I'm still awaiting my apology from Miss G. She knows Doniphon was the condescending jerk, NOT ME!

 

And I hope that in the last few days I have been okay. I have found the IALP experience invigorating and I hope have not come across brusque or contentious. I fear I may have. If so, sorry. I would feel really bad if I were to alienate any of you because of anything of this nature. It would be a loss and I would feel it.

 

I have greatly enjoyed the discussion. It has been one of the best I have taken part in; arguably the best. You have led the way. You have easily written the most and you have presented your side of the story with great vigor and intelligence. I have great respect for anyone who is willing to discuss a film, to this great depth, with me or anyone. I love the mix of passion and thoughtfulness. You have really thought it through. As you say, wisely, it's been invigorating.

 

And Frank, I was going to PM on you on this but I'll just mention briefly that it's particularly galling to me to speak to you like that because of all the folks here you are one that really helped me in the early going of my time here. Back then I used to hop around and post here and there without really knowing anyone and one day I "interrupted" a discussion over in the "torture" thread and you were so welcoming and encouraged me to interrupt any time I pleased and it was through your kindness that I met some of the others here who I know, say, a bit better than many of the others here. That little experience sprung me out a bit and helped open me up and I've never forgotten it. I've wanted to tell you that for some time and thought I would some day and here it is, not under the best circumstances perhaps but I am able to say it nonetheless, thank you.

 

Now that was wonderful. I thank you for doing that for me. That was very kind and generous of you. You're a great addition to any discussion, be it serious or silly. Just watch out for the Greer Garson girl. She'll bury your heart in an ocean.

 

I think we've all had members on this board help welcome us in. Miss G(ray) is one who helped me feel comfortable here... at first. Then she CHANGED and now she makes me feel miserable. But she wasn't the only one. Kyle, Lynn, Dobbsy, and Bronxie also helped me feel welcome. Now they all hate me. As you probably know, I'm comfortable wearing the black hat. Someone has to play the bad guy, you know. I'm to walk the plank. Actually, that would be too noble for me. Just dice me up for the fishies.

 

I believe we can learn more through disagreement than agreement, for it causes us to think more.

 

You have already punctured a hole in my scheme things with that screen cap. I am sans DVD now but you have point there, I didn't remember Dix saying that. (sigh)

 

Ohhhhh, how do I know this feeling. On a couple occasions, I attempted to discuss a film with someone here, only to be caught "winging it." One of the most recent moments of this was with Miss G. We were discussing Shadow of a Doubt and I was thinking to myself, "I know Hitch, I'll go off my memory." Well, about two posts in, she was giving me the, "I thought this is what happened... " She was right. Ooops! I had to rewatch the film them. Heaven forbid if Miss G ever be right again with me.

 

Thanks again for the kind words. Now don't be shy about slashing me to bits now. I'm used to being slapped, jabbed, stabbed, strangled, scorched, run over, and hanged. I could use some slashes.

 

And thanks for the helpful win, Sandy. How about another this week?

[CineMaven]

Ladies. Gentlemen. You ALL have shown us what this Message Board can be and is all about with your wonderfully epic difference of opinion for the 1950 motion picture: "IN A LONELY PLACE."