Jump to content
 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Gloria Grahame a complete package


Recommended Posts

*...but she never really trusted Baker or her feelings for him, nor does she now with Dix.*

 

Bonjour MissGoddess

 

I don't have the DVD (if this discussion persists I'll try to get it from the library again) so forgive me for that. If I had the DVD I would review some of the early scenes, especially about Baker, and then try to answer my own queston here.

 

I don't recall that many references to him and I was wondering what there is the film that suggests that she did not trust Baker. I realize that the film cannot tell us everything but there might be an inference to this effect that I am simply not remembering. I am open to considering anything there is to suggest that. This is not meant as a challenge to you, Miss Goddess, I am actually seeking information.

 

I will admit I may have a blind spot with regard to Laural. I suspect I may be perceiving her as bit too squeaky clean. I don't seem to think she has all that much of her sleeve but am perfectly willing to see differently if I can find the evidence for it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe Ray was sly in giving the key to most, if not all, that occurs in the movie

in the very name of Bogart's character, Dixon Steele. He is a repressed homosexual,

living in a time and place where he cannot allow his true sexual identity to be discovered.

Paranoia often goes with the repressed personality, and this no doubt accounts for many

of his temper tantrums and outbursts. He must keep his secret at all costs, and this means

he is continually on guard, even when the situation does not logically call for it. Take the

example of Joseph University and his remark about Dix's car as an old landing barge. Dix is

not upset at the fact that Joseph is insulting him to his face in front of his girl, but that he is

using a gay slang term of the era often used as a pick-up line. Of course, it is doubtful that

Laurel realized the significance of the term, but Dixon, paranoia to the fore, can only react

with violence to the perceived outing. It should also be presumed that Ray's own

bisexuality and the fact of his contentious marriage to Grahame both play a role as

factors that affected his perception of the material he was filming.

 

After a while, Laurel intuits that there is something odd about Mr. Steele, even if she doesn't

know exactly what it is. As Dix and Laurel's relationship grows more intimate over time, it

is only natural that Dix will feel increasing confusion about his true sexual identity, and grow

more and more frustrated as he has to find a way to hide his real nature from Laurel. His

reaction to this is to become more edgy and nervous, more liable to outbursts of temper.

Laurel now knows, in the words of Sam Spade, that she can't play the sap for Dix, or she

might, one day, be sapped by him. She makes the wise decision to leave this man whose

violence will only escalate with his anger and confusion in regard to his true sexual desires.

As Ray knew through his own life experience, being in the closet is a lonely place indeed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

bonjour, Monsieur le pirate,

 

I apologize for not being clear.

 

What I mean to say is Laurel doesn't deny to Dix that she ran out on Baker and that she's "avoiding" him. She even asks if Dix can keep her name out of the papers. She tells him that she and Baker were thinking of getting married, "It wouldn't have worked", she said. He later tells her she's "a get out quick before you get hurt type" and she doesn't deny this either. I used the words she "didn't trust Baker or her feelings about him" in the sense that something certainly spooked her from wanting to marry him, while Baker evidently is still wanting her and looking for her if she's laying low in the Patio Apartments. Why? Why does the director even bring up her past with Baker at all, and in such terms that she left him? One can speculate endlessly on the details, but it boils down to she either didn't love the guy or didn't trust the relationship. I should have said something didn't feel right to her, not that she didn't trust him out of fear of him. It sounds like fear of commitment was in back of it.

 

I don't think she's a promiscuous woman, so it's not that she left him for another guy or for some lame reason like she just lost interest in him. That doesn't serve the story or her character. Her past is mentioned for a reason, and the dialogue about her quitting before she gets hurt, to me, is significant.

 

That is how I look at it, for what it's worth. I hope I was a little clearer this time. :)

 

Carry on, folks. It's been a fascinating read.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the course of sixty years, mores change, and things that were

once considered sub rosa can now be examined without their

original stigma. This allows us to now see what formerly

was considered beyond the ken of proper subject matter for

consideration in 1950.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, I agree completely. Things were quite different when our dear Gloria's career was in her prime. And a lot of things have changed, but at least the way it was done at the time remains endlessly entertaining, because sometimes you just have to know how to read between the lines. ;)

 

And speaking of Miss Grahame, I saw another clip of her in another recent release, called My One and Only, which is based on George Hamilton's childhood. She appears during a scene where the young kids are out at the drive-in, watching The Big Heat.

 

Funny how there's at least two movies released in 2009 where Gloria appears on-screen. :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

*What I mean to say is Laurel doesn't deny to Dix that she ran out on Baker and that she's "avoiding" him. She even asks if Dix can keep her name out of the papers*

 

It?s natural for her to not want a powerful man like Baker to know her whereabouts. It?s her only weapon against him. If he were upset about her leaving he might try to find her and naturally she wouldn?t want that. She?s through with him.

 

*She tells him that she and Baker were thinking of getting married, "It wouldn't have worked", she said.*

 

She seemed self assured and confident when she said that and it makes me feel that there may have been something equally confident in her leaving him, as if she didn?t like what was going on and left on her own accord.

 

*He later tells her she's "a get out quick before you get hurt type" and she doesn't deny this either.*

 

This conversation was in the early going before she and Dix decided to give it a go and she was perhaps guarded in what she wanted to say to him. She may not have wanted to affirm or deny anything at that point. In keeping with that she coolly refused to let him kiss her and even refused a dinner invitation. The fact that she did not respond defensively to that remark indicates a certain poise on her part.

 

*I used the words she "didn't trust Baker or her feelings about him" in the sense that something certainly spooked her from wanting to marry him, while Baker evidently is still wanting her and looking for her if she's laying low in the Patio Apartments. Why?*

 

We don?t know. She may have had a good reason. It?s hard to speculate because we aren?t given information on that. I?m going to try and get the DVD again, hopefully by the beginning of next week and watch these early scenes again.

 

*Why does the director even bring up her past with Baker at all, and in such terms that she left him? One can speculate endlessly on the details, but it boils down to she either didn't love the guy or didn't trust the relationship. I should have said something didn't feel right to her, not that she didn't trust him out of fear of him. It sounds like fear of commitment was in back of it.*

 

Well, you know me :) The back story on Laural might be to show that she was a strong person. She appears cool at this early juncture in the story and it?s possible that she emerged relatively unscathed from the relationship with Baker. If she was really fed up with him she and left on her own accord she might not be experiencing the usual trauma that result from breakups. I know that fear of commitment is something that you have brought up before but I just don?t know whether there is evidence for that. She looks the type of person that would not be afraid of commitment. She tells Dix directly that she is interested in a relationship with him and for the way they seem to glom on to each other in that long apartment scene seems to suggest that both of them are open to commitment.

 

*That is how I look at it, for what it's worth. I hope I was a little clearer this time. :)*

 

Miss Goddess, thank you for your reply. As I said above, I need to get the DVD but I appreciate very much thoughtfulness and the detail in what you said.

 

*Now can we move on to Dodsworth so we can go back to mutual disagreement? This just hasn't felt natural! :P*

 

Miss Goddess, I?m curious about this you wrote on Thursday last. When I saw this I took the conversation about IALP to be over and a new discussion to begin. I was referring to this in recent posts where I have sort of semi-apologized for continuing to talk about IALP etc etc?and then it recently occurred that this was the Gloria Grahame thread and not Movie Rambles and wondered why we would be talking about Dodsworth here. So I?m asking now, is it the idea to talk about Dodsworth here on the Gloria thread?

 

If not, then is there no special hurry with IALP? I sometimes think I have to respond hurriedly and it would be nice to feel that we might be a little bit more leisurely talking about IALP, that is if it is to continue. It would help due to some time constraints. Unless there is a plan to discuss another Gloria movie and we need to wrap it up with IALP.

 

So I guess I'm asking, what's the plan here? Is there a hurry to wrap up IALP? Or is there something waiting in the wings that needs to start soon?

Link to post
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> bonjour, Monsieur le pirate,

>

> I apologize for not being clear.

>

> What I mean to say is Laurel doesn't deny to Dix that she ran out on Baker and that she's "avoiding" him. She even asks if Dix can keep her name out of the papers. She tells him that she and Baker were thinking of getting married, "It wouldn't have worked", she said. He later tells her she's "a get out quick before you get hurt type" and she doesn't deny this either. I used the words she "didn't trust Baker or her feelings about him" in the sense that something certainly spooked her from wanting to marry him, while Baker evidently is still wanting her and looking for her if she's laying low in the Patio Apartments. Why? Why does the director even bring up her past with Baker at all, and in such terms that she left him? One can speculate endlessly on the details, but it boils down to she either didn't love the guy or didn't trust the relationship. I should have said something didn't feel right to her, not that she didn't trust him out of fear of him. It sounds like fear of commitment was in back of it.

>

> I don't think she's a promiscuous woman, so it's not that she left him for another guy or for some lame reason like she just lost interest in him. That doesn't serve the story or her character. Her past is mentioned for a reason, and the dialogue about her quitting before she gets hurt, to me, is significant.

 

Laurel says her relationship with Baker "wouldn't have worked." Dix is the one who says "You're a get out quick girl..." so what we see of Laurel is filtered through his perspective already. It seems to me that his judgment of her could be based on his own fears and paranoia, not necessarily to be taken as fact. One could even look at his statement as fishing.... trying to see what Laurel will say in response to his judgment of her, how she will react to this unflattering portrait. She does not become defensive, in fact, she says nothing at all, so I wonder just how true it is that she is a "cut and run" type.

 

Perhaps there are other clues about her relationship with Baker, I just can't remember them.

 

Perhaps Laurel is drawn to powerful controlling men, but when they attempt to transfer their business control into control of her she sees that this is not what she wants. I don't think it is necessarily a fear of commitment, though it could be. I think what Laurel wants is someone to LOVE her, without the control issues.

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Nov 15, 2009 10:43 AM

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bonjour Monsieur Lafitte. I might be able to clear this up. Miss Goddess wrote:

 

"Now can we move on to "Dodsworth" so we can go back to mutual disagreement? This just hasn't felt natural!"

 

If I'm not mistaken, this was included in her missive to FrankGrimes b'cuz though she & FrankieG are on the same page with their thoughts of Laurel in "In A Lonely Place" it is not really comfor-

table for Ms. G. to be in agreement with Mr. G. becuz he is perceived to be the Message Board's shiftless varmint.

 

I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth, but please (gently) correct me if I have the history wrong.

 

;-) ;-) ;-)

 

Hope this clears it up for you Monsieur Extraordinaire.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I think the mention of Dodsworth was simply because she and Frank disagree about that film. She was commenting on an uncomfortable state of affairs - trying to restore the status quo, not attempting to change the direction of the discussion in any way. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

CineMaven and Jackie,

 

Thank you for clearing that up. Yes, when I read that remark that Miss Goddess wrote to Frank I thought the discussion was over and I nearly did not send that one long post and felt I had to be apologetic in doing so.

 

So maybe there is no particular hurry and we can keep going. At least Gloria will always be in the news around here if we do :) . Yes, I think it's possible talk something to death but I don't think the discussion of this great film has been exhausted as yet.

 

Meantime ole Laffite is busy trying to tackle all the homework that FrankGrimes has assigned. Frank, if you ever become a college professor, don't let me take your class. It's way too much work ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Laffite wrote: *Laural's visit to Lochner is a minor point. There is no importance to it at all. There is certainly no betrayal. The visit to the doctor is a MacGuffin. It only serves to move the story along.*

 

You disagree with this and for good reason. I am still having trouble understanding where I was coming from. I believe I was thinking that the subject of the visit coming up as it did when they were all so happy on the beach sort of jump started the action from there and that there is a relative unimportance to the scene itself. But it seems _silly_ :( now. (This time I tried eating my words with a little little turmeric...not bad) And of course the scene with Lochner is important as we know by now and as we will be reminded later I don't feel the scene is as important as others.

 

*Dix isn't upset at Laurel's going to the station. He knows she has no say in that. He had to go to the station, too. What Dix is upset over is her NOT TELLING HIM.*

 

Okay, good point. Is it curious at all that he would turn to her and say, "You're lying," when she says that she did not tell him because she did not want to worry him? Does he think she is betraying him? Already? This was the golden age of their relationship, they were happy at that point. And if it were something so serious as that how was he able to forgive her so fast? And why did he not bring it up later? The ensuing scene, nearly bashing the kid, changed the story for us, for Laural, but not for Dix, he calms down and started talking screenplay with her. Why didn't he follow up on this if he thought he was being betrayed? That's really serious, not something that Dix would overlook. But he seems to forget about it. I know you say, Frank, that he forgave her quickly but that's a powerful heavy thing forgive in such a short space of time. Whatever the reason he said that ot her, my thought was that he didn't think much of it because he turned immediately to Brub and seemed concerned about the police investigation and that was what really triggered his anger at that point. I'm a little murky on this issue so maybe you can clear it up but I am suspecting that whatever the answer, it might not be as important as what happens next. :)

 

*If you listen to Lochner and Martha, you would believe it would be dire consequences. But that's not the truth.*

 

I'm a little unclear as to the context of this statement you made relative to our conversation, I admit I am too lazy to go back and read what you were responding to but at least clear this up for me, Frank. It seems what Lochner and Martha said turned out to be the truth, didn't it? He finally did act out on her. I know you will say, well, it was Laural's fault (we can't get into that right now because that's complicated) but even if you want to believe that (and I don't, at least not directly) the fact remains that he did act violently towards her. We will argue whether it is Laural's fault or not but we hopefully we can agree that with his issues, it is at least arguable that his acting out might have occurred with any relationship that he may have had with anybody. And God knows what we are expected to think what he might be capable of when Dix walks out of the patio at the end of the film. It's hard to speculate like this but it's at least arguable that Dix was just not fit for a true relationship. Lochner had police reports and Martha knew about the other girl so they were not just making things up and it seems to me that what they saw actually transpired again with Dix. They both serve as foreshadowing devices.

 

But the fact remains that despite all that and what they said to her, that Laural Grey is her own woman and she _chose not to believe either one of them_. She _loved_ Dix too much for that.

 

*Lochner's "warning" is the turning point in the film when it comes to Laurel going from a strong woman to a weak one.*

 

But I disagree with that. As I said in a subsequent post, she did not listen to Lochner, she rejected what Lochner said to her about Dix's violence. She entered his office a strong woman and she left his office a strong woman, not a weak one. Yes, she eventually gave some creedence to the Lochner visit but only because she saw Dix nearly bash the kid's head in. That's what changed her, not the Lochner visit. And even that didn't make her a weak woman. Here's what I wrote in a subsequent post, Frank, which at this writing, I don't think you've seen yet:

 

"Laural is not a weak woman who lets people poison her mind. She is a strong person who was shattered because she saw something with her own two believing eyes."

 

Even a strong woman can be justifiably fearful. She saw Dix nearly kill the kid in a way that for the time was probably quite graphic at the time this movie was made. The image of holding a rock in the air like that and what that rock would do to that boy's face. Nicholas Ray gave us that scene because he wanted to show the extent of what Dix was capable of and he want to show how that scene affected Laural. It changed her, this was the change, Frank, not Lochner, not Martha. Something like that could change anybody, you, me, anyone alive, the strong or the weak. Again, as I suggested in the subsequent post, go look at the close up they give Laural as Dix puts the rock down and returns to the car. She has been stunned and what has happened to her here explains her behavior from here on out. I don't believe this because I like Laural and I want to defend her, I believe this because Nicholas Ray wants me to believe this. He put it up right there on the screen for me to see. He wanted me to see that a fear has taken root in Laural---a fear that anyone, even the strongest of the strong would cave to---and it will give her cause to take a second look at the Lochner and Martha meetings (which she had earlier roundly rejected let's remember), a fear that she will courageously do battle with from now until the end of the story because of her constant, undying love for Dixon Steele.

 

==

 

Okay, again, a little dramatic, my apologies. But no wonder I don't like these line-by-line queries. But the fault is mine, I just talk too much :)

 

(more to come)

 

Laffite

Link to post
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=HollywoodGolightly wrote:}{quote}

> Oh, I agree completely. Things were quite different when our dear Gloria's career was in her prime. And a lot of things have changed, but at least the way it was done at the time remains endlessly entertaining, because sometimes you just have to know how to read between the lines. ;)

>

> And speaking of Miss Grahame, I saw another clip of her in another recent release, called My One and Only, which is based on George Hamilton's childhood. She appears during a scene where the young kids are out at the drive-in, watching The Big Heat.

>

> Funny how there's at least two movies released in 2009 where Gloria appears on-screen. :D

 

 

Well, you just can't keep these old movie stars down, though there are a few

you'd like to, not a hard-luck dame like Gloria of course.

 

One of the pleasures of watching these old noirs is the old-school clothes,

cars, slang, and social attitudes. Some are like small, unintended time capsules of how

life used to be lived all those years ago, and it has been quite a while. So much

of the noir style seems to be identified with the 1940s, they almost seem inseparable.

I get a kick out of that stuff.

 

Even if old Dix didn't explode into a tantrum on a regular basis, he likely would have

been an everyday pain in the neck, like having a hornet's nest in the house. Oh, there's

not enough cream in my coffee. %^*@#$. Who needs that?

 

George Hamilton? Can't sing, can't dance, can tan a little. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=sineast wrote:}{quote}

> One of the pleasures of watching these old noirs is the old-school clothes, cars, slang, and social attitudes. Some are like small, unintended time capsules of how life used to be lived all those years ago, and it has been quite a while. So much of the noir style seems to be identified with the 1940s, they almost seem inseparable. I get a kick out of that stuff.

 

I love that, although I can't imagine I would have been so comfortable wearing heels and formal wear most of the time. I'm much more into causal wear, obviously. :)

 

> Even if old Dix didn't explode into a tantrum on a regular basis, he likely would have been an everyday pain in the neck, like having a hornet's nest in the house. Oh, there'snot enough cream in my coffee. %^*@#$. Who needs that?

 

I can't even think about coffee and Gloria Grahame and not wince a little bit, and we're not even talking about that movie right now. ;)

 

> George Hamilton? Can't sing, can't dance, can tan a little. ;)

 

You know, what's funny is I had no idea it had anything to do with Hamilton when I rented that movie. It seemed like just another coming-of-age story set in the 50s. The little kid goes by his father's stage name for most of the movie, so I didn't realize until the very end that the little kid in the movie grew up to be George Hamilton.

 

It actually makes for a fairly entertaining movie, even if you forget all about it being mostly the story of Hamilton's mother.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I forgot about the Big Heat beverage burn. Those caffe lattes can really sting.

I'll go with casual too, Brando over Menjou, though some of those 1940s

suits are pretty sharp, as long as you leave out the wild paisley ties (and

suspenders). And thank goodness mens' hats have long been out of style.

Who wants to wear headgear with a big old sweatband?

 

George Hamilton to star in new autobiographical picture, Brown Like Me.

But seriously, Gorgeous George is a lot easier to take since he went the

self-depreciation route.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What's up, Super Charger? -- Thanks for the help. We needed it.

 

I will be honest I find the line-by-line method exhausting and time-consuming and it's not fun for me (unless it is reasonably short) but I know you like to do that so I will do my best to answer. But please don't be disappointed if I don't answer to your satisfaction and I say that because I know it takes a long time and hard work to prepare responses like that and I don't want you do all that work for nothing.

 

You do what you wish. All I can do is explain and ask. If my questions go unanswered, they do. But I still must ask them, for I wish to know what others think.

 

I was trying to be at least mildly entertaining by the way that last post was presented and maybe a bit too cutesy in some places but I wanted point out that at least to me the bashing scene is the turning point of the story because it changed Laural, but not from a strong woman to a weak woman and a woman who listened to others. Rather this: The bashing leaves me open to consider that she was able to see for herself what others were saying and by doing so was able to think for herself. She is able to act on her own behalf and therefore come across as all the stronger for it. She showed us that she does not listen to others because she rejected outright what Lochner and Martha were saying and I think I am meant to feel that the those scenes were intended to show me that. That's partly what those scene s were for. She roundly rejected what they said and reconsidered only in light of what she witnessed herself when she saw Dix pick up the rock. She wasn't listening to others, she was listening to herself.

 

And this brings me to the question I have been wishing an answer for. I'd love for you, CineMaven, Rohanaka, Molo, Jackie, and Miss G to ALL share your opinion with me. That's all I'm asking. I'm not going to beat you. All I seek is an answer. If you wish not to answer, that's your choice.

 

inalonelyplace109.jpg

 

In the above cap, Laurel tells Sylvia that she doesn't realize what he, Lochner, is doing to us, her and Dix. What does Laurel mean by this?

 

Too bad Dix couldn't have said to her, "Hey, babe, I love you and I want you to be my wife, why wait, honey."

 

Would Laurel tell him? How is Dix to know anything when all Laurel does is lie to him? What's a guy to do?

 

Is it curious at all that he would turn to her and say, "You're lying," when she says that she did not tell him because she did not want to worry him? Does he think she is betraying him? Already? This was the golden age of their relationship, they were happy at that point.

 

Yes, he feels betrayed. He feels that a knife has been stuck in his back by the woman he loves. Dix is a murder suspect and he needs to know his woman is on his side; that she believes in him. He needs to confide in her trust. Without that, there's no strength in their relationship. And since they are so happy together, the betrayal hurts all the more. He was blindsided, just as he blindsides the car of "Joe College."

 

And if it were something so serious as that how was he able to forgive her so fast?

 

Because he loves Laurel and he TRUSTS Laurel. She made a mistake, he got upset with her, and then he blew off some steam. He's all right now.

 

I can get very upset with my love, but it doesn't mean I'm going to end it all or be upset for weeks on end. Some of us just need to get it out of our system and then we're all right. Dix is all about releasing his anger, not storing it up for weeks on end, placing Laurel in the "doghouse." Dix is the honest character in the film. Most everyone else is dishonest, most especially, Laurel. She didn't start out this way, or so we are to believe.

 

Dix believes Laurel when she tells him she loves him and that she wants to marry him. He TRUSTS her. Was he wrong to do this? Yes. But since he's an honest man and he felt Laurel was a "good guy" who was on his side, her last betrayal comes as a huge shock to his system. He's devastated.

 

And why did he not bring it up later?

 

Because he forgave her. He got his anger out of his system. He freed himself. Dix is not one to dwell and punish for days and weeks on end. He's all about the moment.

 

Dix and Laurel are opposites. Dix isn't going to let things consume him. He deals with them, right then and there. His blinds are open. Laurel lets things consume her, such as the words of others and her fears. Her blinds are closed. We can see through open blinds, but not closed ones.

 

It seems what Lochner and Martha said turned out to be the truth, didn't it? He finally did act out on her.

 

Lochner asks Lauren if it "frightens her that a killer is at large," intimating that Dix is the killer. Martha tells Lauren that "they still don't know who killed that checkroom girl," intimating that Dix is the killer. They are proved wrong. In fact, Lochner has to apologize for being wrong. Martha would never apologize for her being wrong.

 

Either Laurel believes Dix killed Mildred or she doesn't. There's no "of course," "maybe," or "but." What does she believe? Does she even know what she believes? Sylvia tells her, "you know Dix didn't do it." Laurel says, "I know." Does she know? I never know where Laurel stands on anything. She's all over the place.

 

inalonelyplace118.jpg

 

inalonelyplace119.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hola, Spunky -- Laurel says her relationship with Baker "wouldn't have worked." Dix is the one who says "You're a get out quick girl..." so what we see of Laurel is filtered through his perspective already. It seems to me that his judgment of her could be based on his own fears and paranoia, not necessarily to be taken as fact. One could even look at his statement as fishing.... trying to see what Laurel will say in response to his judgment of her, how she will react to this unflattering portrait. She does not become defensive, in fact, she says nothing at all, so I wonder just how true it is that she is a "cut and run" type.

 

Laurel's reply to Dix's calling her a quitter and runner is, "is that bad?" And Dix doesn't say it's a bad thing, saying, "I suppose you save yourself a lot of trouble that way." She then replies, "I do." Her saying "I do," makes me believe she does see herself as a quitter and a runner. I don't think this is just Dix's perspective. I think he's onto her. So he should have known who he was getting involved with, making him just as culpable as Laurel in terms of knowing who you are getting involved with.

 

Perhaps there are other clues about her relationship with Baker, I just can't remember them.

 

inalonelyplace125.jpg

 

I believe Laurel didn't feel Baker truly loved her or cared about her or needed her. She was a piece of property. She was just an object to possess. Baker was the possessive man. I also feel Martha is a possessive woman.

 

Perhaps Laurel is drawn to powerful controlling men, but when they attempt to transfer their business control into control of her she sees that this is not what she wants. I don't think it is necessarily a fear of commitment, though it could be. I think what Laurel wants is someone to LOVE her, without the control issues.

 

I do agree, I think Laurel wants someone to love HER. And that's definitely Dix. She's right about that. I don't think she's worried about the control. She LOVED taking care of her Dix. They were a team. When Dix asks for orange juice, eggs over easy, bacon, toasted muffin with strawberry jam, and lots of coffee, Laurel replies with, "you'll get breakfast in ten minutes!" She likes how Dix wants her.

 

And when Martha says to Laurel, "you can't be a nursemaid, and a sweetheart, a cook, and a secretary," implying she shouldn't be all things for the man she loves. Laurel tells her:

 

inalonelyplace37.jpg

 

Martha really has disdain for a woman wanting and liking to please her man.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey there, Grahame's Guy -- Well I think you have gotten your answer. The "Joe College beating" versus the "Lochner meeting". Those who are more sympathetic to Laurel place more emphasis on the one, while those more sympathetic to Dix place more emphasis on the other.

 

This is what I have discerned.... Those who feel Laurel is the victim believe when Dix almost beat "Joe College" to death she lost her faith in him. She started to fear for her own safety and this led to her lying to Dix and wanting to leave him. And I agree with all of that... except for one thing. And this is where the point of contention is. I believe Laurel listened to others versus listening to herself. She started off a "good guy" who was on Dix's side and who knew what she wanted. Then she started to let others influence her feelings about Dix and this destroyed the world she didn't want to swap with kings. I believe she changed on Dix.

 

Those who see Laurel as a victim believe she was in control of her feelings and thoughts and that when she saw Dix beat up "Joe College," she thought, for herself, that she couldn't be with this man anymore. The reason she was torn wasn't doubts about his being a maniac, but her still loving him. She really didn't want to leave him, but his violent act against "Joe College" forced her to leave him.

 

Those who don't see Dix as a victim believe he created his own problems by having a violent temper. He created his own fate. And I agree... to a degree. I do believe Dix's violent anger helped doom him, and will probably continue to do so. He's partly to blame. Where I disagree is that I feel Dix's anger is always warranted. His actions are wrong, but his reasons are right.

 

Those who see Dix as a victim do so because he was nothing but truthful and honest with his love with Laurel. Dix thought Laurel loved him like he loved her, which is honestly. When the lies start to mount, and the truth finally comes out, so does Dix's honest anger. I would flip out if I found out the woman I loved was lying to me about her love for me. Dix is always kept in the dark. It's as if everyone else is on the secret but him. He's in a lonely place.

 

One of the keys to this for me is coming around to the idea that Laurel's not telling Dix was a betrayal rather than an "innocent" withholding of information she thought might do more harm than good. I have to agree that she should of told Dix. She didn't have any reason to fear his reaction to it at this point. It might have changed the way events unfolded, or at least postponed them.

 

How you can tell if a lie is a big deal or not is by how the person who is being lied to reacts to it. They will tell you if it's a big deal or not. And what really makes a lie really bad is if you KNOW it's going to upset the person you are lying to. If Laurel, Brub, and Sylvia all reacted in stunned amazement that Dix was upset over Laurel not telling him about the station visit, then I'd be on Laurel's side of this lie. That would tell me she didn't know it was a big deal. But her reaction tells us differently. Boy, does it hurt when you know the person you love knows something is going to upset you yet they still do it. Ouch.

 

He certain thinks Laurel is different. She could be the girl who changes everything, but Laurel's track record is to cut and run. These are two people who enter into a relationship with all the hope and good intentions that requires, but they both have key flaws that will work to destroy their love.

 

And I completely agree with that! Woohoo!

 

I think your "spanking of Laurel" with those wonderfully selected screencaps was absolutely masterful.

 

Thank you, Molo. I appreciate the kind words. I know I'm on the wrong side of the law, but it's my true feelings and thoughts that I'm sharing with you. I did mention I had a different take.

 

I concede Laurel should have told Dix about the visit to Lochner's office, although I don't think she understood the gravity of that decision and I still think that Dix should have taken a stand with her about that. We part company when you say she allows others to do her thinking for her. I think that was a natural reaction to events. She is more forceful with those dissenting voices up until she witness Dix's temper.

 

And this is where the divide really is. I believe Laurel speaks defiantly because those are her honest feelings. She wants to be strong, to stand up to those who are telling her Dix is a maniac killer. That's the one side of Laurel. The weak side of Laurel listens to others and they influence her own feelings. Which person will win out with Laurel, the strong or weak? This is where the divide is.

 

You did a great job of illustrating that in your words and your screencaps.

 

Thank you. :)

 

I think Dix misjudged Laurel. He put all his hopes onto her. She is only human, and if she in inclined to run anyway, (and I think she is) then her relationship with Dix tested her more than anything else could. I think she went into the relationship honestly and it was a tragedy all around. It could have been worse. For both of them.

 

We agree! I think Dix was right about her being a quitter but he was wrong about her being a woman who knows what she wants. Runners rarely know what they want.

 

I do agree with you about this movie having to do with being faithful to the one you love. You have done a great job presenting that case. I just think this movie is about other things as well.

 

The film is very complex, so I do agree with you, the film isn't just about being faithful to the one you love. That's just the biggest theme I take from it. But fearing the one we love and the destruction it causes is another theme.

 

Laurel's fear is presented so well. I can't go along with Laurel being the one to blame. Maybe this film is really about perspective!

 

Hey! I really like that. I do think the film is about persepective. There is Laurel's perspective and then there's Dix's perspective. Do we look at both or just one?

 

I think this discussion proves how we see what we want or understand up on the screen. We all interpret things through our own experience and our own ideas of how things should be.

 

For me, I'm just sharing want I see in the film. It's not that I want Dix to be angry or violent or that I want Laurel to be scared or to lie or to be led.

 

I really do like Dix. I like his cynical humor. I like his loyalty and respect to those who he feels have earned it. I really hate it when he turns on those he cares about. Whether he is provoked in those cases is really not the point is it? I find him a fascinating character. I want him to find his happiness. I can't dislike him and I do find him tragic. I think Laurel is swept up in his world. I like her too, and in the end, I understand her actions. I'm still in her court.

 

And I like Laurel... when she's strong. She's a sweetheart! A "good guy."

 

Do I approve of Dix's violent reactions to his anger? No. They are awful. Although, I do enjoy seeing "Junior" get shoved and "Joe College" getting cracked.

 

She and Dix would not have made it regardless, something else would have changed things eventually.

 

I definitely agree. They're a deadly mix. Their fatal flaws clash (brutal honesty and dishonesty).

 

Maybe Dix can never truly be happy in a long term relationship. There are people like that. He has too many demons swirling inside. As bad as he might want it and wish for it, it can never be.

 

I think Dix was extremely happy in his relationship with Laurel, but he flipped out when Laurel took his ring off. I'd do the same, if in his shoes. The rejection is painful enough, but to lie about it makes it a deeper pain.

 

I can't see Dix trusting a woman again. His misreading Laurel is going to really mess him up. Laurel will probably continue to bounce between one man and another, looking for Dix. That's the guy she wants.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ciao, Lively Gal -- If I'm not mistaken, this was included in her missive to FrankGrimes b'cuz though she & FrankieG are on the same page with their thoughts of Laurel in "In A Lonely Place" it is not really comfor-table for Ms. G. to be in agreement with Mr. G. becuz he is perceived to be the Message Board's shiftless varmint.

 

You've got it, CinemAva. It's rare Snippy and I agree on anything, let alone a movie. She really likes Dodsworth and I found it to be disappointing.

 

Howdy, Quiet Gal -- Maybe "truth" was the wrong choice of words. I probalby could have worded that better. I SHOULD have said he had issues with dealing with STRESS and a track record of buckling under pressure. He flew off the handle WAY too easily and THAT certainly COULD have been something that would have kept him from listening to her had she told him about her police visit. I am not saying SHE knew that yet, but I am saying that it might not have made much difference to them both in the end.

 

Dix has anger problems. Serious anger problems. He turns violent when provoked to anger. There's no excusing that. If Laurel had told Dix about the police asking her down to the station, he would not have been upset at her. He would have been angry about the cops still considering him a suspect, but at least Laurel would have been on his side.

 

If she had said "this is what happened to me today, and this is what the police are still saying about you" blah blah blah.... it would have been the HONEST thing to do. But I think it was only a matter of time before Dix's personality flaws were going to come out... and she was going to get an EYEFULL of his "temper". And I think also HE too might have eventually found out HER issues as well.

 

I agree with you. :P

 

And again, (I mentioned this earlier) they COULD have been married to one another before they both realized what a MISTAKE they were as a couple. So (no I am not saying the end always justifies the means) but I am saying that their real troubles were GOING to come out sooner or later.. and that pointing to THAT incident (her withholding the visit to the police) to me only gives it a "date".

 

I certainly don't have a problem with Laurel not wanting to marry Dix... if that's what SHE wants. But I don't think that's what she truly wanted. I believe she lost her way.

 

To me it does not lay the blame at her feet (the way you seem to see it)

 

My blame with Laurel has to do with her changing on Dix.

 

It could JUST have easily been SOMETHING ELSE some other day, that set him off and made her run scared, because I think it was inevitable. His anger control problems (and her problems too) were GOING to come out SOMEHOW.

 

I think it's the murder of Mildred that is weighing on Laurel. Once Dix is cleared of that, Laurel would feel a whole lot better about Dix. That's why the line of "yesterday this would have meant so much to us" is very important and quite powerful.

 

That's good! Rip and Vance are selfish snakes!

 

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah... HA!!

 

:D:P

Link to post
Share on other sites

inalonelyplace12-1.jpg

 

*Dix kisses with his eyes closed while Laurel does so with them open. Dix's kiss is serious, heartfelt, and trusting. Laurel's kiss is unsure, deceptive, and distrusting. Dix remains in the dark. Blind trust.*

 

Her eyes are open because she is afraid. She was afraid of what he might do to her if she had said no. You have said all along that Dix loved her and he does but from this scene on he starts to unravel. This does not mean he doesn't love her but he is so insecure about losing her he does not come across as if he does and she can feel it.I believe *Rohanaka* referred to this as the "domino" effect. I think it's actually called "aversive behavior." You are afraid of being rejected so you clutch at what you want which results only in pushing the desired object away. That's what Dix was doing to Laural in this scene and it had the effect of exacerbating her already existing fear. She felt forced to say yes and then he kissed her. Nicholas Ray gave us this shot to show us how this is affecting Laural and it is a telling one. Yes, Dix looks like he got what he wanted and is shown kissing her like that but he seems totally unaware of what is going on with her. When you kiss someone you normally cab tell if the one you are kissing is responding the way you want but this doesn't register with Dix. He is so insecure at this point with his possessiveness and control that he cares only that he has gotten a yes answer from her, not so much as a happily married man but as a man who has filled up hole in this gut for lack of the woman he always wanted. I don't mean to make sound mean, he simply has issues.

 

I said earlier and you cited: ...*he is not seeing her correctly* and just above I wrote: "...he seems totally unaware of what is going on with her." You answered the former citation with:

 

*How can he see her when she is nothing but deceptive?*

 

I have to but disagree. Yes she was fearful but it is not fair, in my view, to characterize her as deceptive. True, she is afraid to tell her what's on her mind and we know why but there is evidence in that scene that she might be willing to . She says to him, "I love you" while they were on the couch perhaps to get him to say it back to he, looking for a bit of softness in him to give her courage...and when she said that she wanted to wait before getting married, surely a reasonable request in view of the fact that he wanted an answer in 20 seconds about getting married that very night, she might have hoped he would ask her, "why" in a way that would have allowed her to actually air her feelings. That's what she wanted in that scene. She was looking for a rapprochement with him. She wasn't trying to deceive him.

 

*Betrayal: To deliver into the hands of an enemy in violation of a trust or allegiance.*

 

*Dix is a murder suspect and the Captain is attempting to pin a murder on him.*

 

Is he trying to pin a murder on him...or is he simply conducting an investigation? I think the latter.

 

*From Dix's point of view, the Captain is the enemy.*

 

The metaphor is overwrought. This isn't a battlefield. I only mention this in view of the definition above that you have cited, as if we are talking about a war.

 

*Laurel's not telling him the enemy asked her in for more questioning and told her horrible things about him is a violation of his trust and her allegiance to him.*

 

Yes, she should have told him. But she didn't because she didn't want to worry him. That's what she actually said and she comes as if she was telling the truth. To see her on the screen as seeming to tell the truth is what is important to me because that's the story. So I believe her. At worst she made a mistake. I think accusing her of betrayal with respect to the above definition is to harsh. To do that she would have to be willfully malicious with a real intent to harm and she obviously is not that. You are being to harsh on her in that regard. But, yes, from Dix's point of view, and even mine if it were me, I would have wanted her to tell me.

 

*Dix responds as how I think he would respond. He's very upset at Laurel because his driving fast is basically his blood pressure level. He's definitely angry. But he's dealing with his anger. He's not going to beat up Laurel. He loves her. Her's not a maniac. He's just a guy who is upset with his woman. While I don't know this feeling, I'm sure many others know what it feels like to be upset with the one you love.*

 

Okay.

 

*What is Lochner doing to them? Is he locking them in a room and beating them with a stick? I'd really like an answer to this question: what is it that Lochner is doing to them?*

 

I confess i don't know what this means either. It doesn't seem to mean anything. Unless she means that in the sense of how Lochner is affecting _her_ and therefore _them_, i.e., Laural and Dix.

 

Now before you jump all over that :) as being listening to others, please remember she has her own experience of Dix's violence from the JoeC inicident, in fact she goes on to say to Sylvia:

 

"There is something strange about Dix, isn't there? I keep worrying about it. I stay awake nights worrying about it. Then he shows up for breakfast with an armload of packages, and he is so sweet and so kind that he makes me feel...," and then Sylvia finishes the sentence ..."ashamed how you feel." Laural never would have said that had she not had the experience of witnessing Dix's anger. And I believe that this is what's driving Laural, not "listening to others," and there is a distinction there. A legitimate fear does not a weak woman make. At least the way the JoeC scene was filmed and the impression I had on what it meant. And BTW, do those words sound like a deceitful woman? Not to me anyway, I think she is sincere and truly worried and loves Dix and in the ensuing conversation reveals how difficult it is to tell Dix her feelings. To me, she comes across honestly as someone who is truely conflicted and I sympathize with her. That kind of fear is tough to deal with but she is doing it because she loves him.

 

*And this is another very important question that needs to be answered: what has Dix done to Laurel at this point?*

 

*He ADORES her! He's sacrificing all over the place for her. He doesn't want Effie to wake her, he helps turn off her alarm, he's concerned she is taking pills, he goes and makes breakfast for her. My goodness, he's completely committed to this woman. When he says that "anyone looking at us could tell we were in love," he means that. You see, Dix is very honest. He's not hiding his feelings. He loves Laurel and he believes she loves him. We, the audience, know different because we know Laurel is deceiving him. She's not telling him her true feelings. But Dix doesn't know this. Again, this isn't about us or Laurel, it's about Dix. Take Dix's point of view. He's in the dark.*

 

I agree with all of this except the sentence, ..."We, the audience, know different because we know Laurel is deceiving him." This was the scene when Dix was still able to treat her in a loving manner. He lost this later and yes it was because of Laural. He was not understanding that she was fearful of him and she in turn could not talk to him about her fears. *Molo* was right when he said that they "...never had the conversation they needed." They were in worlds of their own. They were like two circles that moved around and close to each other but never overlapped and had common ground. In a way, that's the story of the whole movie. But she was not deceiving him. You don't take pills to deceive someone, you take them, at least in her case, because she riddled with a fear that she could not rid herself of.

 

Laffite: *She is the one who is aware. Dix is the one who?s hiding. Hiding within himself.*

 

*I respectfully disagree.*

 

I disavow what I said there. I don't think that any more. I am more inclined to believe what I just said about never being synced with one another. And you're right, hiding is not the right word. I would say Dix is trapped...and of course Laural is too. They are both fearful, Laural of Dix's possible violence, Dix of self-centerd---I don't mean that disparagingly, I mean it clinically---fear, but more specifically as the movie progressed, of losing Laural.

 

I renounce all that psychological mumbo-jumbo about Dix I wrote in this post you are answering, Frank, that doesn't ring true to me now. I'm more inclined to drop the blame game. They are both suffering.

 

//

 

Edited by: laffite on Nov 16, 2009 2:24 AM to remove some reduncies

Link to post
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=sineast wrote:}{quote}

> I forgot about the Big Heat beverage burn. Those caffe lattes can really sting.

> I'll go with casual too, Brando over Menjou, though some of those 1940s suits are pretty sharp, as long as you leave out the wild paisley ties (and suspenders). And thank goodness mens' hats have long been out of style.

 

Well, the good old-fashioned suit at least has never gone out of fashion. :)

 

Overall, I still like the looks of the 40s a lot better when it's all in a movie, but I'm kind of glad it is easier to dress casual nowadays. ;)

 

Gloria, of course, always looks smashing no matter what she wears. :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> Ciao, Lively Gal -- If I'm not mistaken, this was included in her missive to FrankGrimes b'cuz though she & FrankieG are on the same page with their thoughts of Laurel in "In A Lonely Place" it is not really comfor-table for Ms. G. to be in agreement with Mr. G. becuz he is perceived to be the Message Board's shiftless varmint.

>

> You've got it, CinemAva. It's rare Snippy and I agree on anything, let alone a movie. She really likes Dodsworth and I found it to be disappointing.

>

 

Lafitte,

 

I don't know who this "Snippy" is but Mr. Grimes, Jackie and CinemAva are correct. I was

just being my typicaly smart aleck self about having for once to agree completely with mine

enemy about a film. :)

 

I just read all the recent replies, and they were wonderful.

 

Jackie - I think FrankGrimes' reply regarding Laurel's backstory just about

sums up what I think. She does not ever deny Dix's words about her being a quitter.

And I also think she is happy and contented taking care of Dix, after all, she really has

found the real thing for probably the only time in her life. She should have trusted, not

her first impulsive feeling about Dix and liking his face, but her experience with him, which

had been always loving until he saw she really wasn't on his side.

 

Laurel will not likely ever find another honest man like him, at least not in Tinseltown. Not

hardly. Dix isn't Hollywood. He's in a lonely place, more than ever now, because he too

is now badly burned and---once again---justifiably cynical about women.

 

Frank - I agree with lafitte, you really ought to be a filmaker, you'd be a darn good one

judging by how well you understand the flow of events and how one scene, one action, can and

should tie in with another. Your pictures would be harmonious. That's tough to do. Ray managed

it remarkably well with this film.

 

As to your question, "What is Lochner doing to them?" I think it illustrates the conflict

Laurel is having with her inner convictions. She now thinks she may be involved with a killer, not

because she saw her lover fly off the handle at a snotty kid, but because she thinks she saw a man

who others have told her is a killer fly off the handle at a snotty kid.

 

If no one had ever said anything damning against his character to her, I think she might have

handled the Joe College debacle quite well...she showed she knew how to calm him down and

he showed that he listened to her. She is not strong enough to base her conclusions about Dix on

her own experience of him, without listening to what others say. What happened to her previous

conviction within that he didn't do it? "You don't know what Lochner is doing to us." she tells

Sylvia. Notice she doesn't say "You don't know what Dix is doing to us". She says it's

Lochner and that means his words have swayed her from her loyal belief Dix is innocent. All Dix's

actions now take on a sinister aspect because of the accusation. Ray wants the audience to see

through that filter, too, because he shows us up at the same time as Laurel realizes her mistake.

Unless, of course, you watch the movie from Dix's perspective as well. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the above cap, Laurel tells Sylvia that she doesn't realize what he, Lochner, is doing to us, her and Dix. What does Laurel mean by this?

 

Well first off, Mr. Grey... I just want to say again how NICE a job you have done making your case. I gotta give credit where credit is due. You truly have outdone yourself, sir.

 

As to what Laurel means... I likely should go back and rewatch this to make sure, but I am thinking that she is sort of feeling guilty that she is having doubts now about Dix.Between the things she's seen, and the things she's heard, she is rattled and having a hard time balancing her love for Dix and her fear of him. And she is laying the blame at Lochner's feet. It is a way for her to justify the frustration and the fear she is feeling without blaming DIX. (or herself) by saying LOCHNER is the one causing all the trouble.

 

That is just my take on it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

 

> I believe Laurel didn't feel Baker truly loved her or cared about her or needed her. She was a piece of property. She was just an object to possess. Baker was the possessive man.

 

I agree completely.

 

> Laurel's reply to Dix's calling her a quitter and runner is, "is that bad?" And Dix doesn't say it's a bad thing, saying, "I suppose you save yourself a lot of trouble that way." She then replies, "I do." Her saying "I do," makes me believe she does see herself as a quitter and a runner. I don't think this is just Dix's perspective. I think he's onto her. So he should have known who he was getting involved with, making him just as culpable as Laurel in terms of knowing who you are getting involved with.

 

Fair enough. I didn't remember the rest of the scene. That'll teach me to wing it!

 

However, I do think that Dix has made his judgment of her already at this early point. He does think it's bad. I think Laurel sees it as good. The implication in his line is that she is selfish. Do you think it is possible that Dix's "bad" view of her as a _quitter_ or a _runner_ or _selfish_ (rather than a sensible girl who gets out when there is no future) creates a self-fulfilling prophecy? That he actually helps to destroy their relationship by characterizing her in such a way? He can't help it. He has characterized her at this early point as someone who is out for herself. That does not sound to me like a "good guy" or different. Which way does he see her? As a good guy, or as a quitter? In the long run, he sees her as the same as all the rest. *He doubts too.* This is what ultimately kills their relationship. Perhaps his viewpoint pushes her into that role in real life? She also says at the beginning of the film that she is not hiding, simply avoiding. So when you call her a hider, that actually IS Dix's perspective, and anyway you look at it, he sees that as bad or weak. If you see your partner as bad or weak, you will never get over it and you can never have a loving and meaningful relationship with that person because you will never trust them.

 

Maybe Laurel does the same. She pushes Dix into the role of possessor, by seeing him like that. "I though he was different, but suddenly he is scary....." Little things that he does out of love, she sees as something controlling or evil. Are they? *When does your perception of someone become their actual behavior?*

 

> I do agree, I think Laurel wants someone to love HER. And that's definitely Dix. She's right about that. I don't think she's worried about the control. She LOVED taking care of her Dix. They were a team. When Dix asks for orange juice, eggs over easy, bacon, toasted muffin with strawberry jam, and lots of coffee, Laurel replies with, "you'll get breakfast in ten minutes!" She likes how Dix wants her.

 

I think you are right here, they are a team, both working together. He needs her. She needs him. Except that Dix changes. Laurel changes. Instead of needing her, Dix needs to control her every thought and action. He becomes mistrustful and possessive. He becomes someone that she doesn't know. He seems after all to have control issues, possession issues just the same as Baker. Why does he become like this? Because of Laurel's actual betrayal? Or because he sees her act as a betrayal? Or did she make him change by being afraid of him?

 

These questions are a lot like "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" :)

 

That scene with the proposal can be seen from Laurel's perspective. She told him at their second meeting that she did not like to be rushed. Now, she tells him she wants to wait to marry, and he tells her she has 10 seconds. That is forcing her to do something against her will, thus controlling her. Dix wants what HE wants WHEN he wants it, and to hell with anyone else's feelings. Just as he persuaded Mildred to break her date so he didn't have to read the book, he now wants Laurel to make her decision at his convenience. If she had done everything he wanted, like Mildred, would he still want her? I'm not so sure.

 

So it works both ways - the thing that fascinates each about the other, is also the thing that breaks their relationship. She starts to see him as a user, just exactly as Baker was. But she thought he was different, a good guy. He did not listen to her. He bulldozed and trampled right over her to get what he wanted. To Laurel, it looks like Dix wants to OWN her, to possess her like a piece of property. That relaxed breakfast is a thing of the past. Her experience with men is just that - they all end up wanting to own her, to make her theirs, not to really KNOW her. And she realizes that again, she is trying to tell someone her feelings, and they just don't care. But this time, she has fallen in love with Dix. What's a girl to do?

 

Dix sees all just as you say, but you are discounting how Laurel sees things. I don't believe that we have to side with one or the other, black or white.

 

Both their past relationships are coloring their perspectives. Their views of love are getting in their way, just as much as any outside influences from other people. The truth is, both of them are different, good guys. They ARE special, more so than their other loves, but both are the same as those old loves too. They love, but both are doomed to keep repeating the same mistakes that they made in past relationships, because of the way they view love itself. Their perspectives, gained through hard life experiences, are wrong - both of them.

 

Please answer me one question, though - If Laurel is the cut and run type, *why doesn't she cut and run?*

 

Each one gains new ground - they go further in this relationship than they ever had before - they both try harder... maybe the hardest they can, but it still doesn't work, because these two are simply broken people, who cannot be "fixed".

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Nov 16, 2009 12:11 PM

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
© 2020 Turner Classic Movies Inc. A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...