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Gloria Grahame a complete package


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*In the above cap, Laurel tells Sylvia that she doesn't realize what he, Lochner, is doing to us, her and Dix. What does Laurel mean by this?*

 

Laurel sees Lochner as an obstacle. He's putting Dix on edge and she doesn't like that. She may even be blaming Lochner for putting her in a difficult position. Blaming him for Dix getting angry at the beach. If Lochner hadn't called her in than she and Brub wouldn't have had any information to withhold from Dix in the first place.

 

*Rohanaka wrote: As to what Laurel means... I likely should go back and rewatch this to make sure, but I am thinking that she is sort of feeling guilty that she is having doubts now about Dix.Between the things she's seen, and the things she's heard, she is rattled and having a hard time balancing her love for Dix and her fear of him. And she is laying the blame at Lochner's feet. It is a way for her to justify the frustration and the fear she is feeling without blaming DIX. (or herself) by saying LOCHNER is the one causing all the trouble.*

 

I agree with what Kathy is saying here. I think Laurel might have just as well have said what he is doing to me but for the fact that Lochner's investigation has a negative effect on Dix as well.

 

Lochner has been investigating Dix the whole time that Laurel and Dix have been together. Laurel is definitely feeling uncertainty about the way things are going between them. Her feelings are becoming conflicted. Things are getting messy now. Laurel is having trouble dealing with it. If Lochner calls off the hounds maybe things we'll settle down She's looking for someone to blame besides herself or Dix.

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> {quote:title=sineast wrote:}{quote}

> I don't know the particulars about this specific contract, but it sounds like something that Ray may have asked for, or demanded, before the picture started. That's just a guess. And besides, would a sensitive gent like Harry Cohn make such demands? :D

>

 

Ah, I see, I think I catch your drift now. ;)

 

> Gloria%20Grahame%201.jpg

>

> Before Sue Ellen Mischke was even a faraway gleam in anybody's eye, Gloria was sporting the bra as outerwear look. Sexy and prophetic. What a dame.

 

Sue Ellen who? :P

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*Sue Ellen who?*

 

Not trying to take this thread off-topic, but if you read the Entertainment section of the Huffington Post, you will discover who sineast is talking about.

 

Returning now to our previous at length discussion of Dix and Laurel.

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*Ah, thanks for the explanation, Lynn! I feel so out of it whenever not talking about Gloria Grahame and the other actors of their time*.

 

No problem. I like to keep up on current affairs, not only political but celebrity as well. Helps me craft some of my longer pieces about the cult of celebrity here.

 

I've got to take Mother Molo her drink (rum and coke). She's on a winning streak the likes of which Jack Entratter and Jakie Freedman haven't seen in quite awhile.

 

Now, for the last time, back to Dix and Laurel.

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How do, Quiet Gal -- Thank you so much for that brilliantly funny congratulations. That was sensational!

 

Well first off, Mr. Grey... I just want to say again how NICE a job you have done making your case. I gotta give credit where credit is due. You truly have outdone yourself, sir.

 

Thank you.

 

As to what Laurel means... I likely should go back and rewatch this to make sure, but I am thinking that she is sort of feeling guilty that she is having doubts now about Dix.Between the things she's seen, and the things she's heard, she is rattled and having a hard time balancing her love for Dix and her fear of him. And she is laying the blame at Lochner's feet. It is a way for her to justify the frustration and the fear she is feeling without blaming DIX. (or herself) by saying LOCHNER is the one causing all the trouble.

 

That is just my take on it.

 

And that's a wonderful take. I like it. I happen to agree with you. I also believe she is using Lochner as a scapegoat. Where we may disagree is that I think she's doing it because she's the goat.

 

Hi, CinemAva -- Thank you for the congrats. I appreciate that.

 

Grimesy me boy, you would make an excellent Henry Fonda in "Twelve Angry Men."

 

What a wonderful compliment! Thanks. "Juror #8" is my favorite classic film character.

 

Hey there, Movieman -- Congratulations on 8000 posts. Educational, fun and interesting all the time. Thanks for being so dedicated to sharing your great wealth of knowledge and humor with us and me in particular.

 

You've been poisoned! Who fed you those words?!

 

Thank you. That was beyond kind.

 

Hiya, Meanie Mint -- Thank you for your Gloria congrats. That was very sweet of you.

 

couldnt you just see Frankie's face if he actually saw Gloria in real life kissing someone like Robbie Ryan or Bogie? now thats priceless!

 

I'd strangle her! :P

 

What's up, Grahame's Guy -- That's one heckuva an "outfit"! Poor, Lamby! She sticks by her man! Thanks for the recognition.

 

Howdy, Lynn -- Talk about a creative "congrats." Thank you.

 

All the card sharks here are a lot like you, come to think of it. Dapper and falling all over themselves to get on Mother's good side in hopes she'll share her winnings.

 

Me, dapper? You've had ten too many!

 

Bonjour, Miss G(ray) -- I agree with lafitte, you really ought to be a filmaker, you'd be a darn good one judging by how well you understand the flow of events and how one scene, one action, can and should tie in with another. Your pictures would be harmonious. That's tough to do. Ray managed

it remarkably well with this film.

 

That's very kind of you and Laffite to say that, but I lack the eye of a director. My brother is the director in my family.

 

As to your question, "What is Lochner doing to them?" I think it illustrates the conflict

Laurel is having with her inner convictions. She now thinks she may be involved with a killer, not

because she saw her lover fly off the handle at a snotty kid, but because she thinks she saw a man

who others have told her is a killer fly off the handle at a snotty kid.

 

I certainly agree with that. Without the words of others, I don't believe she would be as affected by Dix's beating of "Joe College."

 

If no one had ever said anything damning against his character to her, I think she might have

handled the Joe College debacle quite well...she showed she knew how to calm him down and

he showed that he listened to her. She is not strong enough to base her conclusions about Dix on

her own experience of him, without listening to what others say. What happened to her previous

conviction within that he didn't do it? "You don't know what Lochner is doing to us." she tells

Sylvia. Notice she doesn't say "You don't know what Dix is doing to us". She says it's

Lochner and that means his words have swayed her from her loyal belief Dix is innocent. All Dix's

actions now take on a sinister aspect because of the accusation. Ray wants the audience to see

through that filter, too, because he shows us up at the same time as Laurel realizes her mistake.

Unless, of course, you watch the movie from Dix's perspective as well.

 

And that's pretty much how I see it. Lochner isn't doing anything to them. Laurel is allowing Lochner to do it. If you would ask Dix if he thought Lochner was doing something to Laurel and he would probably say, "What does he have to do with me and Laurel?" And Dix would be right. Lochner should have no effect on them. Should.

 

Ciao, Little Red Buick -- Thank you for the glorious Gloria congrats! She doesn't look to be happy with me. :D

 

Gosh, this is terrible. I've already gone back and started watching the movie again...but I didn't get to that point yet. I guess I only remember what I want to remember....

 

That made me laugh! If I had to go off of what I remember with a movie, I'd never get a thing right. :D My recall is horrible. I can remember big moments, but there is no way I'd know how the dialogue goes.

 

However, I do think that Dix has made his judgment of her already at this early point. He does think it's bad. I think Laurel sees it as good. The implication in his line is that she is selfish. Do you think it is possible that Dix's "bad" view of her as a quitter or a runner or selfish (rather than a sensible girl who gets out when there is no future) creates a self-fulfilling prophecy? That he actually helps to destroy their relationship by characterizing her in such a way? He can't help it. He has characterized her at this early point as someone who is out for herself. That does not sound to me like a "good guy" or different. Which way does he see her? As a good guy, or as a quitter?

 

I think Dix's calling Laurel a "quitter" is his quick, gut instinct with her. All he knows is that she left Baker. That's it. His calling her a "good guy" is based on how she responded to Lochner's interrogation and then her strong, definitive answers to Dix. Dix's gut instinct was right but what he saw and heard with his own eyes and ears was wrong. So, I guess, you could say, he was just like Laurel with this. Laurel's gut instinct about Dix was right but what she later saw and heard was wrong. They're an interesting couple because they are so very different, yet their failings make them similar.

 

In the long run, he sees her as the same as all the rest. He doubts too. This is what ultimately kills their relationship.

 

Dix does kill their relationship by leaving Laurel at the end. It's not Laurel who leaves, but Dix.

 

She also says at the beginning of the film that she is not hiding, simply avoiding. So when you call her a hider, that actually IS Dix's perspective, and anyway you look at it, he sees that as bad or weak. If you see your partner as bad or weak, you will never get over it and you can never have a loving and meaningful relationship with that person because you will never trust them.

 

I agree. Dix knows Laurel is a "quitter," so he does get what he deserves.

 

Maybe Laurel does the same. She pushes Dix into the role of possessor, by seeing him like that. "I though he was different, but suddenly he is scary....." Little things that he does out of love, she sees as something controlling or evil. Are they? When does your perception of someone become their actual behavior?

 

I really like your final question there. That's terrific. If you think someone is something, you start to see them as that, even if they're not. And I think the director is manipulating us to feel that Dix is a threat when he's not. It's all to make us think, "oh, no, he's the killer!"

 

I think you are right here, they are a team, both working together. He needs her. She needs him. Except that Dix changes. Laurel changes. Instead of needing her, Dix needs to control her every thought and action. He becomes mistrustful and possessive. He becomes someone that she doesn't know. He seems after all to have control issues, possession issues just the same as Baker. Why does he become like this? Because of Laurel's actual betrayal? Or because he sees her act as a betrayal? Or did she make him change by being afraid of him?

 

I really don't view Dix as being distrustful and possessive of Laurel and think that's where there is a disconnect with me and others. I do think he becomes this at the very end when she removes her ring and locks doors on him. That would make me distrustful of my woman. I can see the possessiveness more, though. He does say to Laurel, during the strangulation:

 

inalonelyplace134.jpg

 

That scene with the proposal can be seen from Laurel's perspective. She told him at their second meeting that she did not like to be rushed.

 

And that's a great point. Laurel DID tell him she didn't like to be rushed. She should have reminded him of this.

 

Now, she tells him she wants to wait to marry, and he tells her she has 10 seconds.

 

See, I always thought he was being cute with that. He's very nervous when he's asking her to marry him.

 

That is forcing her to do something against her will, thus controlling her. Dix wants what HE wants WHEN he wants it, and to hell with anyone else's feelings. Just as he persuaded Mildred to break her date so he didn't have to read the book, he now wants Laurel to make her decision at his convenience. If she had done everything he wanted, like Mildred, would he still want her? I'm not so sure.

 

Laurel and Mildred are not being forced to do anything. They are the ones in power. We men can only ask, you women make the decision. Mildred could have said no to Dix and he would have been powerless to do anything about that. It's the same with Laurel. Dix said he was going to have dinner with Laurel and she told him that they weren't. End of story. Laurel always had the power over Dix. Does Dix have a forceful manner? Yes. He's very straightforward because he's very honest.

 

I can attempt to persuade you with something, but it's still you who decides. You are the one in control, not me.

 

So it works both ways - the thing that fascinates each about the other, is also the thing that breaks their relationship. She starts to see him as a user, just exactly as Baker was. But she thought he was different, a good guy. He did not listen to her. He bulldozed and trampled right over her to get what he wanted. To Laurel, it looks like Dix wants to OWN her, to possess her like a piece of property. That relaxed breakfast is a thing of the past. Her experience with men is just that - they all end up wanting to own her, to make her theirs, not to really KNOW her. And she realizes that again, she is trying to tell someone her feelings, and they just don't care. But this time, she has fallen in love with Dix. What's a girl to do?

 

I respectfully disagree with all of that. The reason Laurel starts to deceive Dix is because she fears for her life. She thinks Dix is going to kill her just as he killed Mildred Atkinson. She's not telling Mel, "he's controlling me, possessing me." It's all about her thinking he's going to kill her.

 

inalonelyplace136.jpg

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Hey, Laffite -- Thank you for your kind congrats. I appreciate that.

 

I've run out of time, so I'll have to get to your posts tomorrow night. But I would like to give you and everyone else something to think over. I'd be curious as to what your take would be.

 

Laurel says to Sylvia, "What can I say to him... I want to marry you, but first convince me that Lochner is wrong, that you didn't kill Mildred Atkinson?"

 

Dix has to convince Laurel he didn't kill Mildred? I thought she was on his side. And we see the name "Lochner," once again. Don't you think Lochner is the one who needs to convince Laurel that Dix killed Mildred, not the other way around? Why is she on Lochner's side?

 

I think there are four possibilities with Laurel, two in the constant column and two in the change column.

 

The constants:

 

A) Laurel believed Dix didn't kill Mildred, from start to finish.

B) Laurel believed Dix killed Mildred, from start to finish.

 

The changes:

 

A) Laurel initially believed Dix killed Mildred but then she believed he was innocent.

B) Laurel initially believed Dix didn't kill Mildred but then she believed he was guilty.

 

Of those four possibilities, which do you (and everyone else) believe is Laurel?

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B) Laurel initially believed Dix didn't kill Mildred but then she believed he was guilty.

 

This is what I believe happened.

 

and BTW, I think you are right in your last paragraph:

 

>So it works both ways - the thing that fascinates each about the other, is also the thing that breaks their relationship. She starts to see him as a user, just exactly as Baker was. But she thought he was different, a good guy. He did not listen to her. He bulldozed and trampled right over her to get what he wanted. To Laurel, it looks like Dix wants to OWN her, to possess her like a piece of property. That relaxed breakfast is a thing of the past. Her experience with men is just that - they all end up wanting to own her, to make her theirs, not to really KNOW her. And she realizes that again, she is trying to tell someone her feelings, and they just don't care. But this time, she has fallen in love with Dix. What's a girl to do?

 

>*I respectfully disagree with all of that. The reason Laurel starts to deceive Dix is because she fears for her life. She thinks Dix is going to kill her just as he killed Mildred Atkinson. She's not telling Mel, "he's controlling me, possessing me." It's all about her thinking he's going to kill her.*

 

I think I was wrong about his controlling, but he does want to possess her, and that is not a comfortable situation for a girl who thinks he might have killed someone. Do you think it's possible for Laurel to waffle back and forth, after a certain point, thinking Dix did kill Mildred, and then the next minute thinking he didn't? I think she goes back and forth, I don't think she is ever convinced, one way or another, until the very end, when her fear just takes over.

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Nov 17, 2009 8:41 AM

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?IN A LONELY PLACE? (1950) - A good solid film by Nicholas Ray (with a very lively publishable conversation currently taking place on this thread). Great performances are given by Humphrey Bogart and Gloria Grahame. They play Dix Steele and Laurel Gray and they both walk a razor sharp tightrope of love, fear and desperation. My observations will not change anyone?s mind. And to some, I will be preaching to the choir.

 

CINEMAVEN?S OBSERVATIONS: (For whatever they're worth) ;-)

 

* Brub picks up Dix for questionning. ?I guess you were asleep at that.?

 

* Brub says: ?I don?t think he killed Mildred Atkinson.?

 

* Laurel and Dix meet formally at the police station. Witty repartee ensues. She serves as an alibi for Dix. At this point, Laurel believes Dix did not commit murder.

 

* I loved the cross-cutting scenes between Dix/Mel with Captain Lochner/Detective in talking about Dix?s record and Dix ribbing Mel about his guilt. Brub is not present here when Lochner brings up Dix?s record.

 

Feb 1946: Beer parlor brawl in Santa Monica

 

March 1947: Fractured producer?s jaw in a fist fight

 

June 22nd - 11:00PM: [/i]Frances Randolph charges Dix with beating her, she rescinds the charge and says she broke her nose on a door.[/i]

 

Laurel is not there for this. She knows nothing of Dix?s record at this point.

 

Laurel visits Dix after their police visit. She asks if her name and address could be kept out of the paper. Mel is there:

 

DIX: ?He believes I killed Mildred Atkinson.?

 

MEL: ?Stop it, will ya.?

 

Laurel smiles and understands the ribbing Dix gives Mel. Mel pointedly asks Laurel:

 

MEL: ?Miss Gray, did you really see him after that girl left??

 

LAUREL: ?Of course I did."

 

Funny, Dix is not angry at Mel for believing he is guilty. And Mel really does believe it. Gonna get him to Mexico.

 

* Now it?s Laurel?s turn to rib Dix:

 

?I only told the police what I saw. I had no idea what you did after you closed your venetian blinds.?

 

They both know Laurel is kidding. At this point, Laurel believes Dix did not commit murder.

 

* Laurel does not really make snap decisions. Cut and run is a cute pithy way of characterizing her not staying any place she doesn?t want to be. I believe men want to possess Laurel instead of having her at her free will.

 

LAUREL: ?I think twice before I get into something.?

 

DIXON: ?You?re getting into something right now.?

 

* When Dix gives her the big build-up...you know: (?not corny, cute...good guy...knows what she wants?) Laurel doesn?t blush with pride that he?s complimenting her. Those are his assessments of her. Continuing in the vein of his characterization, she?s a bit haughty when she says:

 

?I also know what I don?t want. And I don?t want to be rushed.?

 

<Sigh!> If only Dix had heeded her comment. He can?t say he wasn?t warned. These two lines show me that she thinks before she leaps into the arms of any man. She doesn?t need instant gratification to be with a man. I have a feeling many men pressure Laurel; they want to ?seal the deal? with her.

 

She?s interested in Dix, but good-naturedly rebuffs his advances: no kiss and no dinner. Well...not yet anyway. She?ll let him know when she gives him ?permission.?

 

* Brub invites Dix to his house for dinner. Uh-oh...looks like the invitation was prompted by Captain Lochner. And Brub doesn?t look happy about inviting Dix under somewhat false pretenses.

 

I concede and always knew that Dix is being ?handled.?

 

* Dix pulls a bone-headed stunt that doesn?t help cement his protestations of innocence. He gets Brub to choke his wife. I also get the impression, that Brub?s wife Sylvia was told to assess Dix?s behavior at dinner as well. (You know how couples will talk about things afterward).

 

DIX: ?No Sylvia, I didn?t do it. I assure you I could never throw a lovely body from a moving car. My artistic temperament wouldn?t permit it.?

 

She?s a gracious hostess and tells Dix he?d be welcomed in their home in the future. Is Sylvia a bold-faced liar? Would you call that a LIE or just being polite and tactful?? (There?s the letter of the law and the spirit of the law) and not understanding that difference gets people into trouble. As Dix leaves Brub & Sylvia?s place:

 

BRUB: ?Sorry we got on that murder kick. Next time I?ll skip it.?

 

DIX: ?Can I depend on that??

 

BRUB: ?Sure. Bring a girl. Give us another chance.?

 

I do see here that Brub will fail that ?another chance.?

 

* This is the first time Mrs. ?Brub? is meeting Dix. Her assessment:

 

SYLVIA: ?I?m glad you?re not a genius. He?s a sick man, Brub.?

 

( Uh-oh... )

 

BRUB: ?Naaah he isn?t.?

 

SYLVIA: ?There?s something wrong with him.?

 

BRUB: ?He?s always been like that. He?s an exciting guy.?

 

SYLVIA: ?Well, he?s exciting because he isn?t quite normal.?

 

Laurel is not there. She does not witness the chokehold. At this point, Laurel believes Dix did not commit murder.

 

Dix visits Laurel after hanging out at Brub?s and doing his little ?show and tell? He comes unannounced. He couldn?t wait until morning?? It?s after ten p.m. Yes, he knocks on the door in school boy anxiousness. Then he uses the door?s knocker to knock on Laurel?s door.

 

Laurel opens the door ?I heard you the first time,? she says. (I love the fact that Laurel is in control and holds the power of the relationship in her hands.

 

Yup, she?s making him wait. But also Dix must learn some patience and not seem so desperate. The girl said she was interested. Take it easy, Dixie.

 

DIX: ?You annoy me.?

 

LAUREL: ?If I do, it isn?t intentional.?

 

Laurel's disquieting to Dix. She?s on the phone finishing up with her appointment with Martha and Dix questions her with ?Whose Martha?? As she explains who Martha is, he cuts her off and wants to know if she decided if she wants to be with him.

 

I bring this up b?cuz it speaks to Dix?s desperation about her. Sylvia knows something Laurel doesn?t know about Dix. And we know something Laurel doesn?t know about Dix. This causes us to be slightly anxious...for Laurel. She has made her decision about wanting to take up with Dix (yesterday at 3:00pm).

 

?I wanted you to think about it twice, too,? says Laurel.

 

They seal their union with a kiss. She?s not afraid. At this point in time Laurel does not believe Dix committed murder.

 

* PLAYING HOUSE: Dix writes while Laurel straightens up and prepares him for bed. Mel visits:

 

LAUREL: ?He hasn?t stopped working all night. He hasn?t left the house in days. Won?t even take me for a drive.?

 

MEL: ?Incredible. You know, Dix hasn?t been able to work like this since before the war. What did you use, witchcraft??

 

LAUREL: ?Only as a last resort. He?s kind of dopey this morning. I love him that way.?

 

Laurel?s still in love, unafraid.

 

Laurel tries to get Dix to stop and rest:

 

DIX: ?If you don?t let me alone, I?m going to kick you right out of here.?

 

LAUREL: ?If you do I?ll go back to Chicago and be a Fuller Brush Girl. They were crazy about my work on the near Northside.

 

DIX: ?You?ll go when I tell you to go and not before. Remember that.?

 

LAUREL ?I?ll try.?

 

Still joking--with just a hint of...

 

* Laurel puts Dix to bed and doesn?t want to trade places with Kings. Brub comes by and tells Laurel that Captain Lochner wants to see her. Laurel?s a bit defiant but she goes. At the Captain?s office:

 

?For the record I?m in love with Mr. Steele,? says Laurel confidently and defiantly.

 

She?s shown pictures of normal men. Captain Lochner tells her, ?Each one has committed a horrible murder. Each one is a ruthless maniac.?

 

It?s here when Laurel?s resolve starts to waiver a bit. But she speaks up for Dix again:

 

LAUREL: ?I recognize your position Captain Lochner. But you must also recognize mine. I love Dix. It uspsets me terribly that you suspect him. Even for a second.?

 

CAPT. LOCHNER: ?Not for a second, for the last three weeks. He?s our most logical suspect.?

 

When Laurel says these charges (the three beatdowns we learned about earlier) happened years ago, Capt. Lochner tells Laurel to ask Brub what happened at his house a few nights ago. We see later that Brub hadn?t wanted the Captain to reveal that. Brub feels loyal to his al Dix.

 

When Laurel leaves the Captain?s office, she still protests Dix?s innocence but I think a little of that was to save face in front of Lochner. I think this is the beginning of the doubt Laurel has of Dix. I don?t believe Laurel thinks he murdered Mildred...but that he?s capable of very violent behavior.

 

* SWEET NOTHINGS: The piano bar. Love, electricity, whispering sweet nothings...I believe Laurel has pushed Lochner?s words out of her mind. They?re out having a good time. I believe she?s squashing her feeling of doubt b?cuz after all, Dix really has done nothing to her to give her pause at this point.

 

When Laurel sees the detective and his date at the bar, it reminds her that Lochner still suspects Dix; possibly tailing him. (To me, the cop showing up was pure happenstance).

 

* THE MARTHA MOMENT: She does not dissuade Laurel from getting married. Martha?s all for marriage. Yes this scene has been partially screen capped, but not in its entirety. Their conversation goes actually like this:

 

MARTHA: ?Six hours sleep. Typing all day. No wonder your nerves are tied up in knots. You can?t be a nursemaid and a sweetheart, a cook and a secretary. You?ve got to think of yourself.?

 

LAUREL: ?I?ve never been happier in my life.?

 

MARTHA: ?Come on Angel relax.?

 

LAUREL: ?Ouch Martha, you?re hurting me.?

 

MARTHA: ?We should be up on Miller Drive beside that lovely pool Mr. Baker built for you.?

 

LAUREL: "Not for me. He built it to increaqse the value of his property. I was waiting for him to raise the rent.?

 

MARTHA: "So he?s a good businessman who wants to get married. What?s wrong with that? A girl like you should think about security. And remember Angel. First came the land. Motion pictures came later.?

 

(I love Martha's last line and her delivery throughout. This actress does a lot in her short screen time).

 

Martha?s pushing for Laurel?s security. Marriage to a rich man represents security; not working her fingers to the bone for this hack. Martha is FOR marriage. apparently marriage to a rich man back then meant easy street for the girl. Hey, maybe today too, huh.

 

* Dix invites Laurel to a beach party with the Nicholais. Laurel is reluctant. She?s reluctant b?cuz Brub represents the police still suspecting Dix. She thinks Brub suspects Dix based on whatever it was that hapened at his house the other night. The police?s suspicions will ruin her life with Dix.

 

* THE BEACH SCENE:[/b] (Check this out if you like):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Ef_ostl_0&NR=1

 

Everything is okay. Lovey dovey, kibbitzing until blabber mouth Sylvia spills the beans: ?...You promised Lochner you?d invite him to the wedding.?

 

UH-OH! All hell breaks loose:

 

DIX: ?When did you see him??

 

LAUREL: ?The other day.?

 

DIX:?It was just a routine deal.?

 

LAUREL: ?Why didn?t you tell me?? Dix says to Laurel.

 

LAUREL: ?We didn?t want to tell you ?cuz it?d have only upset you.?

 

DIX: ?You?re lying to me.?

 

LAUREL: ?I?m not lying. I just didn?t tell you. I?m sorry Dix. I?m sorry.?

 

DIX (TO BRUB): ?Still checking on me. Still trying to pin a murder on me.?

 

It?s important for you to see he is talking to BRUB. Dix runs up the beach...

 

SYLVIA: ?I don?t know why I said it. Brub especially asked me not to.?

 

LAUREL: ?Maybe it?s better this way. I should have told him in the first place.?

 

Folks, I believe Dix?s is anger is really focused on Brub. He faces Brub with his line ?still checking on me. Still trying to pin a murder on me.? It?s not so much his anger at Laurel. Watch them drive in the car. He?s mad, blowing off steam, but not really at Laurel. Watch him with her in the car. Please.

 

And Sylvia, student of abnormal psychology in college. I don?t think her ?spilling the beans? was an accident. (Sorry I was harsh calling her a blabbermouth). And as suggested, Dix DOES go to Nicholai to confront him about talking behind his back.

 

* GIRL TALK: Laurel visits Sylvia for some affirmation of her fears. Lochner shows her pictures, Martha tries to warn her. In fact, Sylvia doesn?t quite come clean with Laurel. She tries to play off Dix?s strangeness:

 

LAUREL: ?There was no excuse for his behavior.?

 

SYLVIA: ?Well he?s a writer. People like him can afford to be temperamental.?[/i]

 

She parrots what Brub told her after dinner. It might?ve been helpful to Laurel for Sylvia to tell her what she saw of Dix. Listening to others, Frank. Hmmm. I don?t think so.

 

LAUREL: ?But Lochner has a different idea. He believes Dix could have done it. I left his office feeling as though he were trying to warn me.?

 

SYLVIA: ?Oh don?t pay any attention to Lochner.?

 

LAUREL: ?You don?t realize what he?s doing to us. I suppose it isn?t just Lochner. There is something strange about Dix isn?t there? I keep worrying about it, I stay awake nights trying to find out what it is. And then he shows up for breakfast with an armload of packages and he?s so sweet and so kind he makes me feel--?

 

SYLVIA: ?Ashamed of what you?ve been thinking??

 

When Sylvia tells Laurel to talk to Dix and tell him how she feels, Laurel anticipates just how that conversation would go:

 

?What can I say to him? I love you but I?m afraid of you? I want to marry you but first convince me that Lochner?s wrong, that you didn?t kill Mildred Atkinson.?

 

SYLVIA (quickly): ?You should go away for a while, I really think you should. {PAUSE} I mean, give yourself a little time. Figure things out quietly. You?re too anxious.?

 

Sylvia tries to play it off, but she IS trying warning Laurel. Sylvia couldn?t be forthright with Laurel without probably feeling she?d be being disloyal to her husband Brub.

 

When Laurel says:

 

?You don?t know what he?s doing to us,?

 

I believe Laurel means that Lochner?s suspicions...the photos... the reports on Dix?s past beavior, have begun to weigh on her mind. Then also finally seeing first-hand (as Sylvia did at dinner) Dix in all his violent glory, (almost bashing Joe College on the noggin with that rock) really solidified in her mind that Dix could possibly have murdered Mildred. Or at the very least is a very violent man. When she goes to Sylvia to get her doubts quelled, Sylvia is not laughing.

 

The rest of the movie you know. Laurel may have difficulty trusting again. She's not looking for another Dix. As for Dix, poor man, I can only hope he realizes he needs help.

 

There will always be pro-Laural camps and pro-Dixon camps. I can only hope that both of our camps like this great movie. Thanx for reading. If you have the time or inclination, the below YouTube clip is a lovely encapsulation of "In A Lonely Place."

 

 

Edited by: CineMaven on Nov 17, 2009 10:04 AM..Cleaned up some plain text issues.

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Well, a guy whose reply to his agent saying Be there at ten is Make it eleven, can't

be all bad. Old Dixie, with his cynical take and constant wisecracks, is a somewhat

older, plainer-looking version of good buddy Joe Gillis, who was much more even

tempered, and Joe had to put up with a truly strange kind of woman. Unfortunately,

that mostly charming personality is undermined by his obvious anger management issues,

aka his over the top temper temper problem. Ran a stop sign and sideswiped Joseph

University. Punching Joe out is one thing, picking up a rock to bash his skull in is

a whole other matter. In the last twenty minutes of the movie, Dixie is up and down like a

psychotic yo-yo, all over the place. For a moment at the restaurant table, he definitely

channels the crazed eyes paranoia of Fred C. Dobbs. You better go, girl. It would only

be a matter of time after their marriage that he started giving Laurel the third degree every

time she was late or he didn't know where she was. The old where were you really routine.

Laurel made the right move. The life you save may be your own.

 

Martha's in the closet with her massage table. Must be pretty crowded in there. Survey says

she's a lesbian, but not the lipstick kind.

 

Officer Lochner: Suspenders, suits beyond baggy, policeman, three strikes, yer out copper.

 

 

Holly, even a show about nothing has supporting characters, such as Sue Ellen, the O'Henry

candy bar heiress, or the bra less wonder. You've never heard of her? Get outttt. ;)

Pop culture is so widely disseminated and interpenetrative it's hard to ignore. But since so

much of it is junk, it's fairly easy to be selective.

 

Compared to Roy Cohn, Harry was probably a day at the beach.

 

 

 

 

Gloria%20Grahame%201.jpg

 

Yes Ma'am, selling bras door to door is rather unusual, but the CEO

wanted to give it a try, and the sales force was behind it to a man.

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*oh but you see, Laurel, is the kind of gal who would just hand you abottle of rum and expect you to give her a kiss for it!*

 

You mean I get the rum _and_ the kiss? I may have to ponder this :D Maybe femme fatales are not so bad after all. (Don't ask Walter Neff, though...or Chris Cross)

 

*thats a word too! honest! maybe thats the one i spelled wrong. you know me...i cant spell anything right. :)*

 

Just as I suspected, we're gonna have to get you a spell checker...an International one, since you speak so many languages ;)

 

*Dix never had this kind of torture...*

 

Depends who you ask :D

 

:)

//

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*Jackie wrote: I think I was wrong about his controlling, but he does want to possess her, and that is not a comfortable situation for a girl who thinks he might have killed someone. Do you think it's possible for Laurel to waffle back and forth, after a certain point, thinking Dix did kill Mildred, and then the next minute thinking he didn't? I think she goes back and forth, I don't think she is ever convinced, one way or another, until the very end, when her fear just takes over.*

 

In other words, she?s conflicted and doesn?t know, I agree and therefore to Frank?s query:

 

*A) Laurel believed Dix didn't kill Mildred, from start to finish.*

*B) Laurel believed Dix killed Mildred, from start to finish.*

 

*The changes:*

 

*A) Laurel initially believed Dix killed Mildred but then she believed he was innocent.*

*B) Laurel initially believed Dix didn't kill Mildred but then she believed he was guilty.*

 

*Of those four possibilities, which do you (and everyone else) believe is Laurel?*

 

None of the above. Laural initially believed Dix didn?t kill Mildred but then wasn?t sure. She was conflicted. If she were certain either way, her course would be clear. If she believed Dix killed Mildred she would have left him. If She believed that Dix did not kill Mildred she wouldn?t have had to visit Sylvia at all and who knows, they might be living happily ever after right now and we wouldn?t be hear talking about all this.

 

_Frank said to Miss Goddess_: *Without the words of others, I don't believe she would be as affected by Dix's beating of "Joe College*

 

I think it?s the opposite. Without the JoeC I don?t she would have been affected by the words of others. It?s where you want to put the emphasis. I think Joec takes precedence because she saw that with her own eyes and it is a part of her experience. That is bound to have more of an effect on her than mere hearsay. The Lochner and Martha information came first and she handled it pretty well. Those incidences did not shake her conficence in Dix. We have the beach scene she is happy with him there, there is no evidence that she is not afraid here. It?s the JoeC incident that scared her that is more important than hearsay and therefore?

 

_Miss Goddess said to Frank_: *All Dix's actions now take on a sinister aspect because of the accusation ((by Lochner))*

 

?it's the opposite, it?s the accusations that take a sinister aspect because of the JoeC bashing.

 

_Frank said to Miss Goddess:_ *Lochner isn't doing anything to them. Laurel is allowing Lochner to do it.*

 

Laural can?t ignore that an investigation is going on. And it?s affecting her, especially given that she is in conflict.

 

_Jackie said_: *However, I do think that Dix has made his judgment of her already at this early point. He does think it's bad. I think Laurel sees it as good. The implication in his line is that she is selfish. Do you think it is possible that Dix's "bad" view of her as a quitter or a runner or selfish (rather than a sensible girl who gets out when there is no future) creates a self-fulfilling prophecy? That he actually helps to destroy their relationship by characterizing her in such a way? He can't help it. He has characterized her at this early point as someone who is out for herself. That does not sound to me like a "good guy" or different. Which way does he see her? As a good guy, or as a quitter?*

 

Jackie, good point. The fact that Dix sees her as ?quitter? so early on without even knowing her tells more about Dix than it does about Laural. Maybe this attitude was lurking in Dix the whole duration in story. At the end he says something like, ?You?ll leave me just like to did Baker.? If you?re right about the self-fullfilling phrophecy idea, this tells us that this lurking suspicion in Dix might have really prevented him from ever trusting Laural completely. That seems to favor the pro-Laural stance but I want to be careful how much importance to attach to it, it?s worthy of consideration though.

 

 

_Frank said to Jackie_: *I think Dix's calling Laurel a "quitter" is his quick, gut instinct with her. All he knows is that she left Baker. That's it.*

 

Gut instinct can get Dix in trouble. ;)

 

_Frank said to Jackie_: *His calling her a "good guy" is based on how she responded to Lochner's interrogation and then her strong, definitive answers to Dix.*

 

He?s saying thank you for being his alibi (without the implication that she may have fabricated anything? they both know he?s innocent.)

 

_Frank said to Jackie_: *Dix does kill their relationship by leaving Laurel at the end. It's not Laurel who leaves, but Dix.*

 

He left because he is convinced she is no good and she?s not worth it. Okay, maybe. This is his tragedy because even after everything he still doesn?t get it, he doesn?t he get that she really loves him. A few minutes earlier she approached him with that cigarette after he apologized for the scene in the restaurant. Would she have done that if she had been deceiving him the whole time and that she didn't love him.? I think we are supposed to make something of what she did there. Couldn?t he see that as a conciliatory gesture? He doesn?t, because he sees what he wants. He sees the ring is gone. Might he have tried to ask her why she took the ring off. No, he reacts violently.

 

Laural loved him to the end but she could not control her fear of him and her pulling away was seen by him as betrayal. And so he acts out. They are both trapped in their own stuff, their own baggage.

 

Laural?s fear is based on reality, on what she Dix do and yes, to an extent on what other said but to a lesser extent?Dix?s fear was self centered, inveterate psychological problems, inner demons, whatever you call it that served as filter to his perceptions?and then reacted out of personal insecurity...angrily.

 

Dix?s volatile reactions cannot be dismissed by simply saying that he had provocations that were real and that he acted justifiably but that his reactions were excessive. His excessive behavior, his long past that we know, the central incident with JoeC, and here at the end is of great importance. It affected both of them. It?s a large part of the story.

 

If his normal reactions were more solicitous and less violent he may have tried to talk to her. He may have a reason to approach her anew by doing what he has always done and done quite sympathetically too, namely, apologize and say it won?t happen again, and now with this new information about his innocence.

 

My thought is that she ended it. When she said, ?Yesterday, it would have meant something?? she is saying she can?t go on and he leaves (Whatever one believes it still seems unlikely to me that he would not just leave, but they needed an ending and they chose that one.)

 

Can we take a poll on that one. What do people think of Dix walking off like that at the end.

 

a) Dix left Laura

B) Laural left Dix

c) Not sure

 

_Frank says to Jackie_: *Dix knows Laurel is a "quitter," so he does get what he deserves.*

 

When does he knows this? From the beginning? Why would he ever trust her then?

 

_Frank said to Jackie:_ *And that's a great point. Laurel DID tell him she didn't like to be rushed. She should have reminded him of this.*

 

She did, when she did not want to rush into marriage.

 

_Jackie to Frank:_ *Now, she tells him she wants to wait to marry, and he tells her she has 10 seconds.*

 

_Frank to Jackie_: *See, I always thought he was being cute with that. He's very nervous when he's asking her to marry him.*

 

Not a good time to be cute, Frank. If he spent more time trying to find out why she wanted to wait and less time being cute, we may have had a happier ending. ;)

 

_Frank to Jackie_: *Laurel and Mildred are not being forced to do anything. They are the ones in power. We men can only ask, you women make the decision. Mildred could have said no to Dix and he would have been powerless to do anything about that. It's the same with Laurel. Dix said he was going to have dinner with Laurel and she told him that they weren't. End of story.*

 

But to say simply that Laural could have simply said ?no? (to marriage proposal) is not paying attention to what?s happening there. She is in conflict.

 

And ouch! Are you equating being asked to dinner is the same as being asked to marry. The gravity of the two situations should be enough to make this comparison invalid?not to mention that the dinner request was made early when they didn?t know each other and the marriage proposal was much later when things were at a boiling point.

 

_Frank to Jackie:_ *?The reason Laurel starts to deceive Dix is because she fears for her life. She thinks Dix is going to kill her just as he killed Mildred Atkinson. She's not telling Mel, "he's controlling me, possessing me." It's all about her thinking he's going to kill her.*

 

That sounds like a pretty good reason to me. And because of that, I cannot call that deception, per se. When you fear for your life, the motive is self-preservation, not to deceive others. Not in that sense that you appear to mean it. This is why I don?t believe she qualifies for femme fatale status. She is not ?deceiving? him out of malice, or because she want something from him, do expressly do him harm, or because she is doing something that someone else wants her to for reason of some gain to be hand (money, etc.) to do, there is no willfully malicious or conscious intent from Laural to harm to him. She is in conflict and she is acting the way she does because she is fearing for her life (as you say above), not because she is a deceitful woman.

 

Frank, I don?t think you understand Laural ;)

 

///

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> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}

> Thank you so much Jackaaay. Please take a look at that last YouTube clip I cited. It was a really good job.

>

> I feel there's a stalemate of the two camps. I've asked the WebAdmins to look at this thread and to break the tie.

 

 

HA! That got a belly laugh out of me!

 

BTW, that clip was beautiful.

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Nov 18, 2009 11:23 AM

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Can we take a poll on that one. What do people think of Dix walking off like that at the end.

 

a) Dix left Laura

B) Laural left Dix

c) Not sure

 

Can there be a D? ha. (as in: They both left each other)

 

I think he left because a) he KNEW he'd gone too far and it was over. And B) because she was leaving him (and he realized she was right.. in terms of her needing to go) and it was over.

 

PS, Miss Maven... nice work kid. (and wow... what a great youtube. It really does piece together the entire story so well)

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Nov 18, 2009 11:35 AM

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*I am firmly in the a) camp. Dix left Laurel, but they both know it's over. It almost doesn't matter anymore who left whom.*

 

Hi Jackie, I know we're analyzing this thing to death but let me ask this question (and to all) :

 

Dix left Laural because:

 

a) he felt betrayed by her and he no longer loved her. He left on his own terms.

 

B) he left because he felt that she had had enough and though he still loves her he realizes he's blown it and leaves heartbroken and disappointed.

 

I'm almost ready say that I've had enough of IALP for awhile. It's a stalemate but I don't think it's been a question of one side trying to persuade the other. That almost never happens although we can be made to realize something new and change on our own. That can be a sort of persuasion, I guess. But the interesting question is to see why there is a disagreement.

 

This movie can be enjoyed again and again. I'll have another look in a few months, or maybe sooner, and see where I am.

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> {quote:title=sineast wrote:}{quote}

> Well, a guy whose reply to his agent saying Be there at ten is Make it eleven, can't be all bad. Old Dixie, with his cynical take and constant wisecracks, is a somewhat older, plainer-looking version of good buddy Joe Gillis, who was much more even tempered, and Joe had to put up with a truly strange kind of woman. Unfortunately, that mostly charming personality is undermined by his obvious anger management issues, aka his over the top temper temper problem. Ran a stop sign and sideswiped Joseph University. Punching Joe out is one thing, picking up a rock to bash his skull in is a whole other matter. In the last twenty minutes of the movie, Dixie is up and down like a psychotic yo-yo, all over the place. For a moment at the restaurant table, he definitely channels the crazed eyes paranoia of Fred C. Dobbs. You better go, girl. It would only be a matter of time after their marriage that he started giving Laurel the third degree every time she was late or he didn't know where she was. The old where were you really routine.

> Laurel made the right move. The life you save may be your own.

 

Yeah, I'd almost forgotten Dix had already given road rage a bad name before there was even an interstate system in America.

 

> Holly, even a show about nothing has supporting characters, such as Sue Ellen, the O'Henry candy bar heiress, or the bra less wonder. You've never heard of her? Get outttt. ;)

> Pop culture is so widely disseminated and interpenetrative it's hard to ignore. But since so much of it is junk, it's fairly easy to be selective.

 

Ohhhh... how could I forget? :P

 

Silly me. I shouldn't really forget that kind of thing, for I am still master of my domain, queen of the castle... yadda yadda yadda. ;)

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> {quote:title=HollywoodGolightly wrote:}{quote}

 

> Yeah, I'd almost forgotten Dix had already given road rage a bad name before there was even an interstate system in America.

 

> Ohhhh... how could I forget? :P

>

> Silly me. I shouldn't really forget that kind of thing, for I am still master of my domain, queen of the castle... yadda yadda yadda. ;)

 

 

 

Thought I might have to pull out the old 'you been living in a cave?' line.

Hard to miss that show. Good to know you're remote-control worthy.

NTTAWWT. :D

 

Just imagine old Dixie let loose on the Interstate in the middle of a temper

tantrum. Look out. Or maybe Dix was a USC alumnus out to get a UCLA

man. Either way, Gloria made the right decision, because sooner or later,

this guy is going to crack, and it's better to be nowhere near him when it

happens. (Noir folks always seem to have problems with cars: Double Indemnity ,

The Postman Always Rings Twice, D.O.A., etc., etc.)

 

One thing I forgot about was the curious bond between Humphrey Bogart

and Gloria Grahame. They both had immobile lips. There are a lot of stories

about how Bogie got his famous stiff lip, and we know Gloria had some hangup

about how her's looked. She even had plastic surgery to try to correct the

"problem." It ended up giving her an immobile lip too. Apparently both their

voices were affected to some degree. So when these two kissed on screen,

maybe they didn't feel much of anything. That's show biz.

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> {quote:title=sineast wrote:}{quote}

> (Noir folks always seem to have problems with cars: Double Indemnity, The Postman Always Rings Twice, D.O.A., etc., etc.)

 

Well, in a good noir, even a slow-moving train can become an important plot point. ;)

 

But I see that it is definitely an important plot device, and also perhaps a comment on the way post-war America was slowly but steadily growing increasingly dependent on the automobile.

 

> So when these two kissed on screen, maybe they didn't feel much of anything. That's show biz.

 

Feel it or not, it was all just part of the job, I'm sure. ;)

 

To all Gloria Grahame fans, don't forget that TCM is showing The Greatest Show on Earth at 11am ET today. :D

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a) Dix left Laurel because he felt betrayed and he couldn't understand her actions. I think he understood that things got too far out of control, but I don't think he ever understood his own actions. Laurel realizes that her actions also added to the couples problems.

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