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Gloria Grahame a complete package


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I liked that moment. In a very interesting, strange way it connected those who were evading capture by military forces with criminals. Peter has lived the life of a "criminal." He was forced to.

 

 

Exactly. Survival. And it also struck me as being not so literal, as in

be prepared to swallow your pride and do whatever you have to in

order to survive. Notice how Gloria hesitates? Most Americans weren't

faced with the need to literally get on their bellies and crawl to survive.

Many in other countries do know the need of it and so does Peter.

 

Of course, if a strange guy dragged me into the bushes in Central

Park and told me to get down on my belly I think I'd probably take

my chances with the cops. :D

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Exactly. Survival. And it also struck me as being not so literal, as in

be prepared to swallow your pride and do whatever you have to in

order to survive. Notice how Gloria hesitates? Most Americans weren't

faced with the need to literally get on their bellies and crawl to survive.

Many in other countries do know the need of it and so does Peter.

 

That's a sensational point. What did average American citizens know about survival

compared to our European brethren? I never thought of that, but you are exactly

right. You think you've had it tough, well...

 

Again, I love how such a small film is full of such great social commentary. Amazing.

 

Of course, if a strange guy dragged me into the bushes in Central

Park and told me to get down on my belly I think I'd probably take

my chances with the cops.

 

Oh, I'm not that bad. Well, maybe just a little. :P

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> That's a sensational point. What did average American citizens know about survival

> compared to our European brethren? I never thought of that, but you are exactly

> right. You think you've had it tough, well...

>

 

Someone always has it tougher.

 

> Again, I love how such a small film is full of such great social commentary. Amazing.

>

 

I never really thought about it until this discussion. I just thought it showed

some grim realities. I kind of thought as CineMave said, that Gloria's situation

was very much in tune with a lot of 50s and 60s "gritty reality" scenarios. But

so well done and believable. I could identify with her.

 

> Oh, I'm not that bad. Well, maybe just a little. :P

 

Our boys in blue never looked so good to me.

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I never really thought about it until this discussion. I just thought it showed

some grim realities. I kind of thought as CineMave said, that Gloria's situation

was very much in tune with a lot of 50s and 60s "gritty reality" scenarios. But

so well done and believable. I could identify with her.

 

I definitely took the film as "in another person's shoes." And then there is the heavy

social messages attached to the film. This is something I find in film noir more than

any other "genre." I'm completely drawn to it.

 

Our boys in blue never looked so good to me.

 

That's my greatest strength! EVERY guy looks good when compared to me!

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> I definitely took the film as "in another person's shoes." And then there is the heavy

> social messages attached to the film. This is something I find in film noir more than

> any other "genre." I'm completely drawn to it.

>

 

I like that: "in another person's shoes".

 

I also thought it a good touch, that scene in the arcade when he wakes up

to those moronic tourists teasing him. Oh dear, that really made an unflattering

picture. He was terrified! Ha!!

 

> Our boys in blue never looked so good to me.

>

> That's my greatest strength! EVERY guy looks good when compared to me!

 

At least you keep trying to. :P

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I also thought it a good touch, that scene in the arcade when he wakes up

to those moronic tourists teasing him. Oh dear, that really made an unflattering

picture. He was terrified! Ha!!

 

I completely forgot about that scene. That's yet another wonderful moment in the film, although

it seems like a "throw-away." Those two couples were out having a good time and here's a guy

who is completely frightened by this world he's found himself in. They have a laugh at his

expense. He's caught in a nightmare, an urban nightmare.

 

At least you keep trying to.

 

Trying to what?! Get in those bushes! :P

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> I completely forgot about that scene. That's yet another wonderful moment in the film, although

> it seems like a "throw-away." Those two couples were out having a good time and here's a guy

> who is completely frightened by this world he's found himself in. They have a laugh at his

> expense. He's caught in a nightmare, an urban nightmare.

>

 

The irony is that they might very well have been on their first visit to New York, as well.

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AHHHHH!

 

I saw The Glass Wall a year or two ago on TCM. I really liked Tanya the best, and the way that whole scene with her kids played out. But I have to admit, having the kids in the same bed freaked me OUT!

 

I was really drawn to the movie, though I thought Peter's speech at the UN was a little forced. It was over the top as far as writing was concerned, but Vittorio really pulled it off. He was great in this movie, and I liked the suspense of it. I thought Gloria was very good.

 

I've discovered this morning that I really like suspense, especially if there is a good buildup - watching The Big Clock, which is another flawed "maybe noir" made me realize that I will forgive a lot if the characters are interesting and the movie has a lot of suspense.

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> I've discovered this morning that I really like suspense, especially if there is a good buildup - watching The Big Clock, which is another flawed "maybe noir" made me realize that I will forgive a lot if the characters are interesting and the movie has a lot of suspense.

 

Oh my goodness...you and I were on the same brainwave. I watched it thinking exactly

the same thing (and even asking myself if this was really a film noir). The suspense

was great and it was kind of neat how many red herrings Ray Milland kept trying to

throw out there while buying for time. And how often do you see George MacCready

and Charles Laughton in the same film.

 

Sorry to interrupt!

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AHHHHH!

 

What does that mean?!

 

I really liked Tanya the best, and the way that whole scene with her kids played out.

 

I also enjoyed that scene. Very nice moments. But you're still not a fine lady. :P

 

But I have to admit, having the kids in the same bed freaked me OUT!

 

I guess that's her way of saying she trusts Peter. It probably also signifies how tough she has it, herself. Not much space for her and her family.

 

I was really drawn to the movie, though I thought Peter's speech at the UN was a little forced. It was over the top as far as writing was concerned, but Vittorio really pulled it off.

 

Yes, the speech was very heavy-handed. But I thought it fit his desperation. He was basically begging for mercy at the feet of the court... which there was none. No one of power would listen to him. Only those who were displaced cared to listen to him. Zero subtlety... and I liked that.

 

He was great in this movie, and I liked the suspense of it. I thought Gloria was very good.

 

I was on edge at the end. Since it's film noir, I really wasn't sure he would make it or not.

 

I've discovered this morning that I really like suspense, especially if there is a good buildup - watching The Big Clock, which is another flawed "maybe noir" made me realize that I will forgive a lot if the characters are interesting and the movie has a lot of suspense.

 

I'm with you with that. Most of the films that I like from the classic era are suspenseful. I like film noir, westerns, and horror flicks the very most. Most of them are suspenseful, in their own ways. Lots of tension.

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

 

> What does that mean?!

 

It means that big face is SCARY! Kind of like the disgusting patrons at the fight in The Set Up.

 

 

>

> I also enjoyed that scene. Very nice moments. But you're still not a fine lady. :P

 

I never said I was. And you are no gentleman. :D

 

> I guess that's her way of saying she trusts Peter. It probably also signifies how tough she has it, herself. Not much space for her and her family.

 

I ge the point, but this is one scene where my 2010 sensibilities kicked in - it gave me the creeps that people were that trusting back then. Today, you would never see a scene like that, even if nothing happened!

 

> Yes, the speech was very heavy-handed. But I thought it fit his desperation. He was basically begging for mercy at the feet of the court... which there was none. No one of power would listen to him. Only those who were displaced cared to listen to him. *Zero subtlety... and I liked that.*

 

That's you all over!

 

> I was on edge at the end. Since it's film noir, I really wasn't sure he would make it or not.

 

Me either - that's what kept me watching through the whole thing - just as I kept watching The Biig Clock this morning. I HAD to know what would happen.

 

Andrew watched with me - he kept cracking up, especially at Harry Morgan - the way he was framed in each shot - _no subtlety_ there either. I think he really liked it! He asked me if Elsa Lanchester did any movies when she got old, so I think he remembered her from Disney stuff - she definitely made an impression! He usually doesn't remember that stuff from childhood. He liked the twisty way Ray Milland was going after himself. And he noticed Charles Laughton's twitch.

 

> I'm with you with that. Most of the films that I like from the classic era are suspenseful. I like film noir, westerns, and horror flicks the very most. Most of them are suspenseful, in their own ways. Lots of tension.

 

Isn't it funny, though, how little we know ourselves? I never thought I was the type for all that suspense - it turns out I really love it. In fact, it's a huge part of why I like movies. Will they make it?

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?Yeah, but the same can be said of the laws in ?Devil's Doorway? and many other laws and former laws. The law is the law, right? We're to always accept them and never challenge them, right??

 

No, you?re right. (Can?t sit at the lunch counter...Jean Valjean in ?Les Miserables?). Just b?cuz it?s

a law, doesn?t make it right.

 

?Remember, I'm not ?black and white.? I believe life is grey. I feel that if we view everything as ?black and white,? we lose our humanity.?

 

Yes, you?re right again, Grimesy. Ofttimes there are mitigating circumstances that warrant a bending and easing of the rules.

 

> ?Sometimes Peter's exploits struck me as little far-fetched, ?convenient? and that took me out of the pix in spurts.? - < ( C.M?Ava ) >[/b]

 

Such as...

 

* How he winds up looking out of the wings while the Stripper?s onstage (no Stage Manager saw this?)

 

* How he happens to be practically thrown into the Stripper (Tanya?s) cab.

 

* To be put in bed with the kids? (Yikes! Unseemly and plot convenient b?cuz you couldn?t let Tanya?s brother find him immediately.

 

* When Peter finally gets to Oz, Uhmmm...I mean the United Nations, the schmaltzy music got to me.

 

* No security at the U.N. (What the...) Even for that year, the one cop at the door couldn?t stop a man whose bleeding with broken ribs?

 

"Ironically, I just finished watching John Ford's 'The Hurricane', last night, and this entire dilemma was the film's focus. There are laws and then there are laws, if you will. And it was fascinating to see the law of man trumped by the law of nature. Do we ever bend or give?

Are we to be nothing but book-followers?"

 

I love...LOVE Nature trumping ManKind; show us who?s The Boss. We shouldn?t be book-follo-

wers. We should fight against unjust laws...I?m just not in favor of breaking laws and rules and

Codes of Conduct just for the mere sake of breaking laws, rules and Codes of Conduct. And

for those circumnavigators... I say tighten the laws around their necks. (I am NOT talking of

our Hungarian Italian Peter Kuban).

 

"When is a burlesque dancer ever called a 'fine lady'? That would be like a guy calling Miss G 'sweet.' :P

 

Uhmmmm...you do love to live cyber-dangerously, don?cha big guy.

 

Great screen cap you chose for Tanya. Doesn?t it say it all?

 

"Yet another important character, despite a very small amount of screen time. Does he think of anyone but himself? I sometimes wonder about the rest of us. Lots of 'don't tread on me's' in our country. Such humility. It's as if we own everything."

 

I agree. I just wished the actor had played it a little more subtle.

 

"So why doesn't it classify as a film noir?"

 

Why do you think it does?

 

Those two couples were out having a good time and here's a guy who is completely frightened by this world he's found himself in. They have a laugh at his expense. He's caught in a night-

mare, an urban nightmare."

 

"The irony is that they might very well have been on their first visit to New York, as well. -

< ( Miss Goddess ) >

 

Tourists often look and act like that. Haven?t you noticed?

 

Grimesy, the Bilko screencap you posted of that tourist was as frightening as ?The Bad Seed? cap I?ve seen around the board.

 

"Of course, if a strange guy dragged me into the bushes in Central Park and told me to get down on my belly I think I'd probably take my chances with the cops.? - < ( Miss Goddess ) >

 

Ha!! :-) LOL!!!

 

Grahame?s hesitancy was interesting. It was like she thought she was too good to do that, when we just saw her filch half-eaten food and a coat three sizes too big. With Kathleen Freeman screeching at her heels, I say...crawl, girl...crawwwwwwwl!

 

Hi there Jackaaaay -"I was really drawn to the movie, though I thought Peter's speech at the UN was a little forced. It was over the top as far as writing was concerned, but Vittorio really pulled it off...?

 

I liked Vittorio throughout the movie, but his speech and acting in that scene made me cringe. I think I might?ve liked it better if he were speaking Italian.

 

"I've discovered this morning that I really like suspense, especially if there is a good buildup - watching 'The Big Clock' which is another flawed 'maybe noir' made me realize that I will forgive a lot if the characters are interesting and the movie has a lot of suspense."

 

Please check out Steve Hayes? review of ?THE BIG CLOCK? here:

 

 

 

"George MacReady can really sweat. He's so subtle, the twitch of a nostril can mean everything!"

 

MacReady can do more with his little finger or the inflection in his voice, than many of today?s actors can do with their entire screen persona. (?Gilda? ?Paths of Glory? etc for Macready examples).

 

"And how often do you see George MacCready and Charles Laughton in the same film." -

< ( Miss Goddess ) >

 

Separated at birth??

 

MacReady, Laughton, Georgie Sanders, Claude Rains...so many good second bananas who are great. Why, there oughta be a thread...

 

Now...calling or Moloes. Calling all Glo-lo MadHatted Moloes!

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Hey there, Suspensefool :P -- I never said I was. And you are no gentleman. :D

 

I am so a gentleman! It's quite obvious by the white hat that I wear!

 

I ge the point, but this is one scene where my 2010 sensibilities kicked in - it gave me the creeps that people were that trusting back then. Today, you would never see a scene like that, even if nothing happened!

 

:D I don't think anyone would have had a strange man jump in bed with their wee ones in the 50s, either.

 

That's you all over!

 

Yes! I like my sledgehammers!

 

Actually, It all depends. Sometimes I love it, sometimes I gag on it.

 

Andrew watched with me - he kept cracking up, especially at Harry Morgan - the way he was framed in each shot - no subtlety there either. I think he really liked it! He asked me if Elsa Lanchester did any movies when she got old, so I think he remembered her from Disney stuff - she definitely made an impression! He usually doesn't remember that stuff from childhood. He liked the twisty way Ray Milland was going after himself. And he noticed Charles Laughton's twitch.

 

It sounds like the mister may like film noir, then. I do believe it's the "genre" for guys who aren't sure about classic film. See if he likes a film such as The Killing.

 

Isn't it funny, though, how little we know ourselves? I never thought I was the type for all that suspense - it turns out I really love it. In fact, it's a huge part of why I like movies. Will they make it?

 

I prefer unpredictability and I usually find that in film noir. Most every other genre tends to be predictable. That's not to say I don't like my predictable. Hitchcock's heroes almost always win out in the end.

 

Hola, CinemAva -- No, you?re right. (Can?t sit at the lunch counter...Jean Valjean in ?Les Miserables?). Just b?cuz it?s law, doesn?t make it right

 

Rosa Parks was a "stowaway"... thank goodness.

 

How he winds up looking out of the wings while the Stripper?s onstage (no Stage Manager saw this?)

 

Very convenient.

 

How he happens to be practically thrown into the Stripper (Tanya?s) cab.

 

That didn't bother me. Although, her not noticing he's there until they are moving is film convenience.

 

To be put in bed with the kids? (Yikes! Unseemly and plot convenient b?cuz you couldn?t let Tanya?s brother find him immediately.

 

Yes, you are right. It's also to show us she has young children and is a single mother... which I like.

 

When Peter finally gets to Oz, Uhmmm...I mean the United Nations, the schmaltzy music got to me.

 

That is rare in film noir. I usually find it in other films. I thought you liked schmaltzy music! Classic film is loaded with it!

 

No security at the U.N. (What the...) Even for that year, the one cop at the door couldn?t stop a man whose bleeding with broken ribs?

 

:D Kuban did have his run of the U.N. You mean I can't do that now? :P

 

I love...LOVE Nature trumping ManKind; show us who?s The Boss. We shouldn?t be book-follo-

wers. We should fight against unjust laws...I?m just not in favor of breaking laws and rules and

Codes of Conduct just for the mere sake of breaking laws, rules and Codes of Conduct. And

for those circumnavigators... I say tighten the laws around their necks. (I am NOT talking of

our Hungarian Italian Peter Kuban).

 

Well, I'm definitely with you. As I always say, I'm liberal with my thinking and conservative with my being. I'm a rebel in my mind but a goody-two-shoes in actuality. I have hardly ever broken any laws in my life. Even moral "laws." I'm quite pure... and boring. But, geez, nothing gets me going more than those who think selfishly, who don't think of our fellow man.

 

Uhmmmm...you do love to live cyber-dangerously, don?cha big guy.

 

I'm used to getting slapped and kicked. And for being loving, too!

 

Great screen cap you chose for Tanya. Doesn?t it say it all?

 

She's lovely. You could feel her loneliness. She's surrounded by men who only think of her in one way and then she goes home to be herself, a daughter, a sister, a mother. And now she meets up with a guy who calls her a "fine lady." He doesn't even care about the other stuff.

 

So when are you doing to dance for us? :P:P:P

 

I agree. I just wished the actor had played it a little more subtle.

 

He wasn't a good actor. Low-budget films.

 

"So why doesn't it classify as a film noir?"

 

Why do you think it does?

 

Our hero is a "criminal" in an urban nightmare. The law and daylight are his enemies. His "friends" are a female grifter and a female burlesque dancer. The man he needs to seek out is a returning "Joe" who is struggling to make it. The entire vibe of desperation permeates. The setting of NYC nightlife seals the deal. Love the social commentary, too. Film noir was fueled by many emigrates and this story is very much theirs.

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"So when are you doing to dance for us?" :P:P:P

 

Haha, you Grimesy devil, you!!! I'll send you a PM with my showtimes. I'll have fans, snakes, be in a bubble bath, and have five veils. The economy is rough right now, so I can't afford the whole seven.

 

More later...I'm going to head out into life, see if I can't pick up a hunky Hungarian/Italian to help me while away my time at the Apple SoHo store.

 

Salo'Maven.

 

:-)

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*_CineMaven Wrote:_* *Now...calling or Moloes. Calling all Glo-lo MadHatted Moloes!*

 

Sorry I'm late guys. I've really enjoyed everybody's thoughts here. I liked *The Glass Wall*. I had a few nitpicks with it but overall it was pretty good.

 

_*Frank wrote:*_ *I really enjoyed the "man on the run" aspect of The Glass Wall. This is nothing new in film noir, but the entire NYC vibe of it made it fascinating to me.*

 

_*CineMaven wrote:*_ *It was great seeing the Times Square I remember as a kid. Teeming, vibrant, dangerous. Now it?s teeming...with tourists, and pretty antiseptic. Meh! As an indie filmmaker, to find out that they filmed this movie guerilla style was GREAT!!!!*

 

When Peter (Gassman) comes up out of the subway into Times Square you really get the view of the city from his perspective. I really liked the "vibe' of it too. The shots of the city at night, the crowds, the commotion. Oh for the glory days of neon!

 

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You are seeing the city through Peter's eyes. Those dark urban shots really give you the sense of the crowded anonymity of New York. I know it's not a new idea but it is so interesting to watch. You can get lost there. You can get stalked there. It doesn't help if you manage to get your picture splashed across the front of a tabloid, not once, but twice! I couldn't think off a way the story could have worked without that plot device, and I tried.

 

Peter is looking for Tom. The authorities are looking for Peter. It's interesting too that there are no real bad guys, amongst the main characters.

 

_*CineMaven wrote*:_ *?The Glass Wall? is Vittorio Gassman's picture all the way*

 

_*Frank wrote:*_ *Definitely. And I really enjoyed his performance.*

 

Well I agree too. I liked his performance very much. I notice you both were reminded of other films. Well,you know, if you two would step out of the darkness once in a while you might have been reminded of the startling similar *Romance in Manhattan* from 1936. (Yes! Fluff finally pays off for Molo!) :) Francis Lederer gives a very good performance in a very similar role. The film actually has a lot of story points in common with this one. It is a completely different type of film and, of course, set before the war. It really differs only in tone in a lot of ways though. What is does demonstrate is how sympathetic this type of role is too play.

 

Who doesn't like the fish out water immigrant who just wants to be in America and be free? Well, maybe that story has lost some of it's luster these days, but both Gassman, and Lederer before him, feed on this sentiment.

 

 

_*Frank wrote:*_ *I really liked Vittorio. You won't find too many leads in film noir to be as compassionate as he*

 

That is very true.

 

*_Miss G wrote:_* *He's a victim and the "enemy" is a law.*

 

_*CineMaven wrote:*_ *But something just kept gnawing in the back of my mind about the fact that he stowed away, that he was trying to circumvent the law. The U.S. is welcoming, if you come in the front door. The back door is another story.*

 

Peter's "respect" for authority is certainly colored by his experiences in the war and what happened afterward. He's had a full life trying to survive authority. First the Nazis, then his native Hungary and it's collusion, then Nazi occupation outright, Soviet invasion and the installation of a communist government. As Peter says, "he has no country, it is no more.

 

(((Off topic but noteworthy, it is interesting that he is from Hungary, that country's story of collusion, occupation and last minute deportations is yet another grand tragedy buried amidst so many unimaginable tragedies of the war. The only extensive photographic documentation of Jews arriving at Auschwitz-Birkenau are from the, literally, last minute Hungarian deportations: http://www1.yadvashem.org/exhibitions/album_auschwitz/intro.html ))))

 

So maybe stowing away to get to America seemed like small potatoes to him. He's read the law and knows he has an "in" due to helping Tom. He tells them: you have to take me He understands basic right from wrong, Don't steal coats! Stealing from children isn't a nice thing to do. Yet he helps out Maggie because he understands desperation and he distrusts authority. He takes her help for those same reasons. I'm not justifying all his actions but just trying to gain insight into his character. Peter has no doubt had to deal with moral compromises his whole life.

 

*_Miss G wrote:_* *But how is he fighting and what system? He's in New York, not Europe.*

 

*_Miss G wrote_:* *I thought it interesting that when Gloria was in the same predicament*

*Peter's adivce to her was "Crawl!....get on your belly and crawl."*

 

*_Frank wrote:_* *I liked that moment. In a very interesting, strange way it connected those who were evading capture by military forces with criminals. Peter has lived the life of a "criminal." He was forced to.*

 

*Miss G wrote:* *Exactly. Survival. And it also struck me as being not so literal, as in*

*be prepared to swallow your pride and do whatever you have to in*

*order to survive. Notice how Gloria hesitates? Most Americans weren't*

*faced with the need to literally get on their bellies and crawl to survive.*

*Many in other countries do know the need of it and so does Peter.*

 

 

I thought that was interesting too Miss G. and I agree with you both about that scene.

 

Are we in Central Park or occupied Europe here:

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I love the way Gloria's Maggie is introduced in the film. The way Peter looks at her. He just sits and watches her, she's a minor curiosity to him. Maggie is hard luck incarnate.

 

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Why does he help her? What is this idea he has? How does going to her place help him with his mission?

 

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_*Frank wrote:*_ *Gloria Grahame is wonderful in the film. Her "Maggie Summers" is now one of my favorite characters of hers and one of my favorites of all-time. She's a mix of both bad and good, so it's a nice mix for Gloria. This is actually one of the few times I have seen Gloria not exhibit "sexuality." Very interesting.*

 

*_CineMaven Wrote:_* *It was a wonderful vehicle for our glorious Double G., though. She tamped down her sexuality big-time allowing the audience to see that she?s more than just what we know she can be. It killed me to see her being in such a furtive survival mode... living in that squalid little rooming house...stealing coats and money from kids.*

 

I agree with you both about this. It's so interesting to see Gloria in these desperate circumstances. She is a gal with a lot of issues. Definitely, there is backstory to this character that might make another movie. Her sexuality seems to be an obstacle in her mind. She's been through the ringer here and Peter can sense he's among the damaged. Yet she finally connects to him as a fellow traveler struggling to stay afloat.

 

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It's not that they are so much a like. Peter still believes in life's promise, always moving, hopefully forward, Maggie is on the verge of stalling out.

 

 

_*Frank wrote*_: . *If you're a Gloria fan, and I know you are, it's a good "Gloria" role and an entertaining, thoughtful film. It's as if her "Ginny" character in Crossfire has been given more screen time.*

 

I really liked the comparison to Ginny. Maybe even Ginny about seven years later. I can definitely see that. Ironically though my biggest beef with this film, and I'm such a Gloriaphile that I can't be unbiased about it, is that they are not given more time together. Gloria is essentially removed from the story halfway through. Peter has other journeys, other meetings ahead, but I would have shucked all that, to see these two characters given more back and forth time while on the run.

 

It may not have worked, or worked as well. Typical Grahame role. A lot of unfinished business. Always leave them wanting more.

 

_*Miss G wrote:*_ *I was desperate that "Jerry" was going to flake out on Peter and I can't tell you how I found myself hating his girlfriend! She was sooooo typical. He has to save someone's life and she's mad because he can't stay at the party.*

 

*_Frank wrote:_* *But, to be fair to her, she wanted Tom to try out for the clarinet job in a band that was big-time for the area. If he gets the job, they can get married. She's been waiting for him for five years. And she worked hard to get him that tryout. I can understand her feeling of desperation.*

 

Tom turned out to be a stand up guy. He's very likable. I understood his girlfriend's viewpoint. She was a little desperate herself. Five years is a long time and she was on the verge of finally realizing her own dream. She could have reacted differently. I think she was lashing out at Tom because of the timing and it was blinding her to what Tom was saying. I think she finally came to understand what was at stake and why Tom was so intent on helping but damn that blasted timing!

 

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_*CineMaven wrote:*_ *We finally face the glass wall of the United Nations and Peter?s plea for understanding. I winced a bit at his speech, but the message was clear and poignant.*

 

I winced a little too. It was a bit overblown, very "get the message". What Peter is expressing so poignantly we should get from following the action and story of the film.

 

_*Frank wrote:*_ *Loved the social commentary of the film. I liked the connections of all the characters struggling to achieve. Two of them are single women. One is a returning vet. The other is our lead, Peter (Vittorio Gassman), who is a concentration camp survivor.*

 

Like I said earlier, there were no real bad guys in this film. It was an interesting mix of characters.

 

Because to each man he is the world

 

I like that sentiment. The rest of the speech is an idealism that...well...let's just say we have a long way to go. Considering what he has been through, it speaks well of him to cry out for dreams.

 

I'll finish up for now but I'll be back. I have a few more points I would like to touch on. Great discussion guys.

 

I'll leave you with this shot of Gloria Grahame as Maggie Summers.

 

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Edited by: molo14 on Sep 18, 2010 7:17 PM

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I love it when you guys illustrate your points with the screen caps. Sigh! In my next life...

 

Hi Molo! - ?...Ironically though my biggest beef with this film, and I'm such a Gloriaphile that I can't be unbiased about it, is that they are not given more time together. Gloria is essentially removed from the story halfway through. Peter has other journeys, other meetings ahead, but I would have shucked all that, to see these two characters given more back and forth time while on the run.?

 

I fear that. I fear it for two reasons:

 

1. It would change the trajectory of the story from an immigrant's tale to lovers-on-the-run. (And not that there's anything wrong with that).

 

2. Who knows WHAT Gloria might have to resort, to get money to keep them on the run. It?d be more than stealing coats and dimes. And if I know men...(at least men in the movies), he?d be upset at ?how? she got the money. But you know Molo, hey, anythng for more screen time for Gloria.

 

That?s a great screen cap you chose of Nancy...her eyes all dewy. I liked how the camera dollied into her in the movie. She reminded me slightly of Jean Peters. Not in the screen cap, but when the scene actually played out in the film. Timing is everything, isn?t it.

 

?Well,you know, if you two would step out of the darkness once in a while you might have been reminded of the startling similar 'Romance in Manhattan' from 1936. (Yes! Fluff finally pays off for Molo!)? :-)

 

Hey no fair Molo. I step out...I just rode the range with that handsome tall drink o? water Randolph Scott. I was as far west of the Pecos (film noir) as I could be. I even wrote about "The Profes-sionals" and "Sergeant Rutledge." I tell ya, with Woody as an incentive...sigh!) Fluff? I?ll show you fluff...let?s ramble about an out-and-out comedy sometime. I can fluff with the best of ?em.

 

And now, I must pick up some feather boas for my dance for Grimesy. Oh...you?re welcome to sit in the audience as well.

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Hi CineMaven,

 

 

*I fear that. I fear it for two reasons:*

 

*1. It would change the trajectory of the story from an immigrant's tale to lovers-on-the-run. (And not that there's anything wrong with that).*

 

I didn't think that far ahead. I'm impulsive.

 

*2. Who knows WHAT Gloria might have to resort, to get money to keep them on the run. It?d be more than stealing coats and dimes. And if I know men...(at least men in the movies), he?d be upset at ?how? she got the money. But you know Molo, hey, anythng for more screen time for Gloria.*

 

Well they only had a few hours before the deadline. Who knows. It's all about Gloria to me! :D

 

*Hey no fair Molo. I step out...I just rode the range with that handsome tall drink o? water Randolph Scott. I was as far west of the Pecos (film noir) as I could be. I even wrote about "The Profes-sionals" and "Sergeant Rutledge." I tell ya, with Woody as an incentive...sigh!) Fluff? I?ll show you fluff...let?s ramble about an out-and-out comedy sometime. I can fluff with the best of ?em.*

 

Okay you're on! Just let me know when you are ready. Now I consider *The Professionals* and *Sergeant Rutledge* (hey, two I've actually seen) pretty dark, but at least you are out there on the trail. I watched Scott drive Cary Grant to hallucinogenic fits of jealousy last night in *My Favorite Wife*.

 

Fluff isn't always a cakewalk you know, you have to be dedicated! Call me when you've sat through *Mama Steps Out*. Twice! :D

 

*Oh...you?re welcome to sit in the audience as well.*

 

Hey, I'll be there!

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_*CineMaven wrote:*_ *Robin Raymond made me think of Constance Bennett. And her whole appearance in the film was quite a lesson in acceptance and assimilation. She is the daughter of immigrants. And though she does the bump-and-grind, she has two adorable little blonde haired kids that she has to feed, and allows a stranger to share their bed. (HUH?!) Her mom who I thought at first was going to play your typical movie immigrant mother ("The Public Enemy"), wound up being a very strong matriarch.*

 

*_Frank wrote:_* *It's the same with Tanya (Robin Raymond). When you see what she's all about, it really humanizes her. And I loved her emotions in her scene.*

 

_*Jackie wrote:*_ *I really liked Tanya the best, and the way that whole scene with her kids played out. But I have to admit, having the kids in the same bed freaked me OUT!*

 

Constance Bennett. Hmmm. I liked this little piece of the story. I was wondering why she was going to that police station, so it was nice the way her character turned out. The kids in the bed thing was weird. Robin Raymond was good. Was this her best role? I liked her character because I wasn't sure what to make of her at first and then she surprised me a little. She's a warm character. Love the way the mother backs her up too.

 

_*CineMaven wrote:*_ *Her son comes bustin? home all tough guy actor-y. (His performance had my head shaking). He is unequivocally American and wants nothing to do with the old language and culture. Mom puts him in his place when she tells him "Don?t forget, your dead father was a lousy foreigner.? I loved the smack in the face she gave him.*

 

"All tough guy actor-y" makes me think along the lines of Joseph Wiseman in *Detective Story*, but I see your point. I liked the smacks too. They seemed to have put him in his place. Once again Peter feels that he is causing too much trouble and skips out.

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She's not very good at it. I thought it was a telling comment. She'd never make it if she had to live by stealing. She'd have more than likely been pinched if she hadn't had Peter's help. What's a poor, down on her luck gal to do? This was another reason why this role was an interesting change for Gloria. She doesn't manipulate events here, she has no control in her life. We know she got canned from her job, a job that was making her crazy, because she was sick. I guess she is still bouncing back.

 

She doesn't steal the coat because she needs it. She says she was just fed up, I guess. As has been said, the sexuality has been tamped down. She's a hardened character, at least externally. She just seems so beaten down by life, but she's not particularly tough either. Still, she can be resourceful, she can doctor up broken ribs in a pinch. Even score a couple of must have dimes.

 

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She's not very good at it. I thought it was a telling comment. She'd never make it if she had to live by stealing. She'd have more than likely been pinched if she hadn't had Peter's help.

 

Wasn?t that one reason why she hated the shoelace factory job. Wasn?t she getting pinched there too?

 

?All tough guy actor-y? makes me think along the lines of Joseph Wiseman in ?Detective Story?, but I see your point. I liked the smacks too. They seemed to have put him in his place. Once again Peter feels that he is causing too much trouble and skips out.

 

You know, I LOVED Joseph Wiseman?s loose-y goose-y hopped up character in that movie.

 

She doesn't steal the coat because she needs it. She says she was just fed up, I guess. As has been said, the sexuality has been tamped down. She's a hardened character, at least externally. She just seems so beaten down by life, but she's not particularly tough either.

 

Didn?t you think she made a very fetching Florence Nightingale as she sat on the bed with Peter, doctoring up his ribs... Methinks our Gloria can?t help but be sexy. Awwwww, she's not so tough.

 

I liked your screen cap of Double G with those two ?dead-end? kids. She looked bemused by their toughness. But then her demeanor getting those two dimes...all the while knowing Peter is watching her...(Gloria?s a heartbreaker when she?s vulnerable).

 

Okay you're on! Just let me know when you are ready. Now I consider ?The Professionals? and ?Sergeant Rutledge? (hey, two I've actually seen) pretty dark, but at least you are out there on the trail. I watched Scott drive Cary Grant to hallucinogenic fits of jealousy last night in ?My Favorite Wife.?

 

Dude, I?m ready. You just name the time, the place, the thread. Oh, and the film too. (But nothing silent, please). I'm already going out on the limb laying claim to being the Fluff Queen.

 

Oooh, Scott had a beautiful body, didn?t he? But my favorite pairing with Cary & Irene remains: ?THE AWFUL TRUTH.?

 

Hey, I'll be there!

 

Great, Molo. Now...where did I put those darned tassels?

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