Jump to content
 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread


Recommended Posts

Watch the scene in THE PARADINE CASE where Greg walks into Valli's bedroom, and sees a pillow embroidered with her initial. Even the music is similiar to REBECCA!

 

Louis Jourdan is very good.

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Jul 30, 2011 2:43 AM

Link to post
Share on other sites

I love *ROPE*! It's a favorite of mine, just not as high up on the list as the others I mentioned.

 

As for *Saboteur*, I really liked what you wrote about the light and dark side of this country - Our Town, Hitch style. I'd love to have seen Hitch direct Our Town, actually. I guess he really did already, in *Shadow of a Doubt*. Even worked with Thornton Wilder on it.

 

 

I am completely with you on *North by Northwest.* I've never really liked it. Certain scenes yes. It's too long by a half an hour, and waaay too slick as you say. That makes it less suspenseful for me than any of the others. You know Cary will be OK in the end, so why keep it going for so long?

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Jul 30, 2011 10:31 AM

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Wow, I remember this thread when it was just a baby! It's a whopping 142 pages of Frank Grimes Tortureness.

That's. Awesome.

 

 

Where'd the Coop group go? It's been forever since I've wandered around through these TCM halls so I kinda have to get used to it all over again. :P

 

By the way, GREER IS THE BEST! COOP, COOP, COOP! ...What other actors can I torture you with chanting the names of?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the playfully experimental aspect of ROPE, even if Jimmy looks as though he was going to throw up before dare flubbing a line.

 

Thanks re; SABOTEUR. It's interesting to note that Norman's "we all go a little mad sometimes" harkens back to.MacDonald Carey in SHADOW OF A DOUBT telling Theresa Wright the very same thing.

 

Yeah, there are no "surprises" in NORTH BY NORTHWEST. Now, I don't remember my reaction the first time I saw the cornfield scene, but, if it wasn't an outright yawn, I know I wasn't shocked for some reason. I must have been like,"Okay, Grant's incongruously dapper in his suit out in the sticks, and an airplane is trying to kill him, I get the terror-in-the-sunlight intention, but...."

 

Stylistically and thematically I think PSYCHO and VERTIGO are in my opinion Hitchcock masterpieces. I "warm" more to PSYCHO however, lol.

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Jul 30, 2011 4:38 PM

Link to post
Share on other sites

*Rope *is a film that I rarely see women liking

 

I l-o-v-e love Rope. (and I am NOT even trying to be funny here because I could say that EVEN before I ever saw Ox-bow and started my "frozen rope" collection.. ha)

 

I would maybe have to rate it somwhere in the middle of my top ten fave Hitch films ever (if I were a "rating" kinda gal)

 

Oooo.... get out your litmus paper.. ha. I would even say I like Rope MORE than Vertigo... (hmmm what is THAT all about??)

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Jul 30, 2011 4:47 PM

Link to post
Share on other sites

"I love this! So the litmus test is a litmus of the litmus test maker. Awesome!"

 

Yes. It's sort of like how much wood can a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could Google a lumberjack and get him to chuck the wood the woodchuck was supposed to chuck.

 

 

(Re: "VERTIGO" "To me, it speaks to the inability for anyone to really change, to stop themselves from going over the edge, so to speak (sorry) into unreality... And that longing and torture of the heart should not be an excuse to destroy someone or yourself. Living in a fantasy of perfect love that can't possibly exist outside of the movies can be downright dangerous to yourself and to others. I find that a bitter, bitter tea to drink.... I can't enjoy it for these reasons, because I don't believe it. I don't believe that people can't change... or that fantasy isn't good for the soul. Perhaps it hits too close to home for me. I don't want to see this, I'd rather be in denial."

 

Antony spent a lot of time chasing Cleopatra on denial too. (Ugh!)

 

No, seriously, I agree with all that you say. Longing and torture of the heart is no excuse for anyone's destruction. No one should want the fantasy over the reality because where does that get you? So I'm feeling you. But I didn't see "VERTIGO" as being about the inability to change. I thought it was about the loss of control. Scottie actually became a control freak. Ironically, the more Scottie tried to be incontrol, the more he was out of control. The film allowed me to safely and vicariously feel the loss of control. I've experienced it but not to the nth degree that Scottie has.

 

"BTW, I LOVE 'Mr. Sardonicus'."

 

Hola! Mi hermana!!! ("When my master says to do the thing, I do the thing. Whatever it may be!")

 

"Just for comparison..."

 

I see we share five Hitchcock films but in different orders: "VERTIGO" "PSYCHO" "SHADOW OF A DOUBT" "STRANGERS ON A TRAIN" and "SABOTEUR." So we can still have interesting conversations. And if you won't mind too much, I'm going to wax on about "VERTIGO" in a bit.

 

"The one that actually gave me the most fright recently was 'Rich and Strange' (1931), which I just saw . It starts off SO lightly, with a rather callow, charming couple complaining of boredom in their married lives because they can't afford anything fun. Then they receive an inheritance, and oh, golly, it takes such turns.... it completely creeped me out watching those two babies thrown into a big bad world. An object lesson in being happy with what you've got."

 

Reading the little that you and Miss Goddess have said has piqued my interest about this "RICH AND STRANGE" even though I'm not such an early Hitchcock fan. Shame on me! I should see how he sowed the seeds of his genius.

 

"I am completely with you on 'North by Northwest.' I've never really liked it. Certain scenes yes. It's too long by a half an hour, and waaay too slick as you say. That makes it less suspenseful for me than any of the others. You know Cary will be OK in the end, so why keep it going for so long?"

 

I see that you're with Bronxgirl on that and fair enough. "NORTH BY NORTHWEST" does make me think of a big PAINT BY NUMBERS movie. But listen, who are we to begrudge Eva Marie Saint the pleasure of being with Cary Grant??

 

"VERTIGO" should have been called "OBSESSION" (but that was a few years in the future and done by that Hitchcock devotee, Brian DePalma). Scottie lived in a waking dream. The same way we watch "Vertigo" is the same way Scottie watches Madeleine. Watching Madeleine is as though he's watching a movie, until the movie comes alive and draws him in. Now the movie is interactive. Now he is IN the movie of Madeleine Elster. Vertigo: fear of heights, fear of falling from heights...fear of falling...in love?

 

Scottie even took the job from Gavin Elster (Madeleine's husband) with a large dose of skepticism. So he didn't start off this adventure with goo-goo ga-ga eyes. And then just one look was all it took. Was Scottie able to change? Welllllll...I guess not. He was stuck. He got stuck in a moment in time and couldn't get unstuck. He tries to unstick himself when he sees the brunette Kim Novak (Judy). Ohhhhkay wait...he doesn't try to unstick himself, he tries to CONTINUE where he left off. How trippy is it, that the Madeleine he was watching was not even the REAL Mrs. Elster and when he makes over Judy into the false Madeleine he was following, he really has the Madeleine he was following all along.

 

Elster got away with murder. Scottie could have had the girl of his "dreams" but he was hellbent on being mad for being awakened from that dream. Geez, he didn't even say thank you for curing me of my vertigo. Now I can stand on the top step of the ladder.

 

How does that old song go: "Falling in love with love is falling for make believe. Falling in love is playing the fool." He was in love with a dream.

 

"Why did you have to pick on me?!! Why me?"

 

Devastating. Hitchcock as Rubik's Cube.

Link to post
Share on other sites

BRONXGIRL'S PICKS*:*

 

*REBECCA*

*UNDER CAPRICORN*

*REAR WINDOW*

*PSYCHO*

*SUSPICION*

*THE 39 STEPS*

*THE LADY VANISHES*

*JAMAICA INN*

*FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT*

*SHADOW OF A DOUBT*

 

WHEW!!! Your picks Bronxie are a pretty hard group for me. They seem like tough Hitches to me, ("Egghead Hitch"), particularly "The Thirty-Nine Steps" "The Lady Vanishes" "Jamaica Inn" and "Under Capricorn." Do you like okra, brussel sprouts and beets too?

 

*"Yes, I guess I lean toward the 'female' Hitches, the more 'traditionally romantic', as opposed to the complicated and dare I say, perverse attractions of 'NOTORIOUS' (Cary Grant's character really bothers me) and 'VERTIGO', both superior films but they leave me emotionally chilled."*

 

B-r-r-r-r. I find it interesting these two films leave you chilled. I had a hard hard time with *"NOTORIOUS"* for many years, but after a discusssion with Dr. Litmus Grimes a while ago, I have really come to embrace "NOTORIOUS." With *"MR. AND MRS. SMITH"* it makes me think of a Hitchcock movie that's not really a Hitchcock movie. It's like having the great Shirley Bassey sing a theme song for a James Bond movie, without it starring Sean Connery.

 

*"I'm eating a tuna fish sandwich and watching Ken Maynard. I also polished off three chocolate-covered bananas. 'FRENZY' is rancidly compelling."*

 

Now see man, you're as bad as little Shirley Temple!!! And funny, your two sentences seem strangely connected.

 

*"I'm always amazed by Hitchcock's intuitive and sophisticated ability to plumb the depths of human relationships -- male/female, parent/child."*

 

Yes yes yes. Yes! I love Hitchcock's mind. I absolutely love the way he took the courtroom drama *("THE PARADINE CASE“)*, nature *("THE BIRDS“)*, psychology *("SPELLBOUND" "MARNIE")*, the wrong man *("SABOTEUR" "THE THIRTY-NINE STEPS” “THE WRONG MAN" "NORTH BY NORTHWEST")*, murder *("ROPE" "FRENZY" "STRANGERS ON A TRAIN")*, family *("SHADOW OF A DOUBT")* love *("NOTORIOUS")* and twisted, pretzeled and filtered them through his brain processes. He put a spin...a bent...a twist...to so many topics. What, you think this is a spy story? Ha! This is a story about a boy who hates his mother.

 

*"Not a Tippi fan. I would have preferred Grace Kelly in 'MARNIE', and anybody else in 'THE BIRDS'."*

 

You're turning my litmus paper from blue to brown Bronxie. I love Tippi. I think Hitch would have agreed with you though; he so wanted Grace Kelly, especially for "MARNIE." But for my money (which the United States might be running out of by Wednesday), Grace is too pretty sissy girlie perfect for both roles as Marnie and Melanie. I find Tippi has an edge to her, especially for the uptight, sexually repressed, kleptomaniacal persona she portrayed in "MARNIE." But you eat your okra and asparagus, and I'll eat my Raisinettes and tangerines.

 

*"I love the playfully experimental aspect of ROPE, even if Jimmy looks as though he was going to throw up before dare flubbing a line."*

 

OMG! You got me!!! < ( Spit Take Dammmmit! ) >

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh...my...gosh, Maven, you took the words right out of my mouth about NORTH BY NORTHWEST being "Paint By Numbers".

 

 

P.S. You do know, of course, that MR. SARDONICUS is on my list as one of the most frightening movies ever made. And I'm not referring to Oscar Homolka, lol.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm fond of brussel sprouts and borscht. Everybody tells me okra is slimy, like Steve Cochran.

 

VERTIGO is a tough Hitch for me. I just don't understand Scottie's obsession, although, perhaps that's the point. I hear you about Tippi, and, she's certainly better in MARNIE than THE BIRDS, but for me what seems to be her "edge" is just, well, wooden-ness, lol. Hedren has a natural aloofness that does work in her favor as the rigid Marnie.

 

From the little I know about Hitchcock, it seems a lot of his work is about cycles of entrapment (emotional/psychological/societal), flight, and pursuit. Also, the wearing of masks and "doubling" -- the so-called pillars of society are in reality hypocrites and worse.

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Jul 31, 2011 12:01 AM

Link to post
Share on other sites

"Oh...my...gosh, Maven, you took the words right out of my mouth about 'NORTH BY NORTHWEST' being 'Paint By Numbers'."

 

(Your mouth wasn't full of chocolate covered bananas at the time, were they?)

 

And I'm not putting down a film, if I feel a movie is "paint-by-numbers." They are the "this-is-how-to-make-a-movie" movies for a filmmaking junkie like me. Here's something to jog an old ex-New Yorker's memory: Movies I saw at the Loews Tower East on 71st Street & Third Avenue were "BIG" grownup, "paint-by-numbers" movies like that. It made me feel good and smart if I came away understanding them. I wish I knew how to explain this better.

 

"P.S. You do know, of course, that 'MR. SARDONICUS' is on my list as one of the most frightening movies ever made. And I'm not referring to Oscar Homolka, lol."

 

Yo! I did not know that. That's good to know. It almost makes up for you calling Tippi wooden. And on that score we'll just have to agree to disagree. (Yes, admittedly, the woodenness serves the portrayal of repression well).

 

" 'VERTIGO' is a tough Hitch for me. I just don't understand Scottie's obsession, although, perhaps that's the point."

 

And you like "UNDER CAPRICORN"?? It's okay. I hear ya. I kind of don't want everybody liking "VERTIGO."

 

"From the little I know about Hitchcock, it seems a lot of his work is about cycles of entrapment (emotional/psychological/societal), flight, and pursuit. Also, the wearing of masks and -- the so-called pillars of society are in reality hypocrites and worse."

 

The little you know? Wow, this is so well-put. Madam Bronxie, your knowledge and reasons and explanations astound, astonish and amaze me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"Oooo.... get out your litmus paper.. ha. I would even say I like Rope MORE than Vertigo... (hmmm what is THAT all about??)"

 

Well that says...that says...Grimesy what does that say? (I'd say welcome to the club Ro!) I like that you like "ROPE." It adds another dimension to you, in my eyes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Grimesy. I come to --torture you--...I mean to pepper you with questions.

 

"Wow, I'm impressed! Most everyone chooses 'Rear Window' over 'Vertigo.' But I do like the emotion of 'Rear Window'; It flips the sexes. Typically, it's a man who goes out of his way to prove his love for a woman. It's the opposite in 'Rear Window.' The man is in a wheelchair, so the woman has to do the physical work. She's the one who places herself in danger for the man."

 

Yes, you're so right about the mechanics of "REAR WINDOW" and its plot and subtext...and of its emotion. Wish MY emotion were in there more. Not sure why I don't like it more b'cuz I like when movies flip the usual societal roles of the sexes. I do appreciate its masterfulness. I want to be sure to get that across.

 

" 'VERTIGO' signifies a seriousness with the viewer, be it intellectual, psychological, or artistic. Basically, 'ear Window' is more for the masses. I expect most to prefer it. If someone doesn't prefer it, it means they are a little different. Anything that makes a person different than the majority, for whatever the reason, is gonna pique my interest."

 

Well it'll be hard not for me to be swell-headed since your litmus of "VERTIGO" has me turning out to be a brainiac. I don't know if I'm any of those things but I'll take it. I'll take it! I do understand that those are things you get out of someone liking one film over another.

 

"Remember, I said 'Vertigo' is a litmus test film for me . It's my litmus, so it's completely biased to how I learn about people. My litmus test would be completely different than yours and most everyone else's. Still, I can discern about people through the litmus. So, yes, whoever the author of the litmus is gonna have a bias that they use to discern."

 

Yes yes, I understand this completely. And I'm happy to read that you enjoy "THE AWFUL TRUTH."

 

"So you're more of a 50/60s Hitch lass and Jackie is more of a 30/40s Hitch lass. That makes sense to me because I believe it matches you both."

 

Jackie is one of my sisters-under-the-mink and I hope to always find some kind of common ground with her. I didn't include all the films I have seen of Alfred Hitchcock's. If I did, you would see the bulk of my affection for his work is from the 1940's. I won't bore you with the break down of my choices of his films from each decade. I wanted to torture you not bore you.

 

"My Hitch list..."

 

Your Hitch list is amazing Frank. Fifty-one films. Are they in order of your affection for them, or were you just listing the Hitchcock films you've seen?

 

In your analysis of Bronxgirl's list of the Hitchcock films she preferred you said: "But the biggest thing I see with your favorites is that they lean 'female' for Hitch." What, in your opinion, makes an Alfred Hitchcock film "female" and what makes it "male"? Is it "romance" for girls and "murder" for boys? No, I know it's not that simplistic, so would you give me a couple of examples of each? And if a man likes a "female" Hitchcock film (and vice-versa) what do you believe that says about the man or the woman? Does it mean they have the sensibility of the opposite sex?

 

You say to the Boca Queen of the Bronx: "You seem to have the same reaction to 'Notorious' as CinemAva, although she seems to have warmed to the film... a lot. I suppose you are reacting to Devlin's (Cary Grant) cruelty towards Alicia (Ingrid Bergman). Ahhhh, yes, we men handle jealousy and female rejection so very well. :DWhat's great about the film is that each jumps to the wrong conclusions about the other. It's great."

 

I specifically have cited YOU and given you credit in my private life for me being able to now embrace and appreciate "NOTORIOUS." (I do still wish Dev had met Alicia half-way though. Boy, he sure tested her...into the arms of another man. And into the clutches of an evil mother-in-law. Hmmmm....I wonder how Hitch got along with Alma's mother).

 

"...'Marnie' is one of the heaviest of Hitch's films. I think it's a very tough watch. But I have come to like it more with repeat viewings. It's another Hitch film that prominently features the male sex drive and the fear it can strike in woman. The mother/daughter relationship is fascinating. I like 'The Birds' for the mother/'daughter-in-law' story."

 

Funny I never found "MARNIE" tough or heavy. I've been watching that film since I was in the tenth grade. My understanding of it has changed since I was a teenager, of course, but I used to always breeze through it. Now as an adult I have a more deeper of understanding of it. I ought to really challenge myself and give "TOPAZ" "TORN CURTAIN" and some of Hitchcock's earlier work more of a chance. I Confess, I love my favorites and visit them often like old friends.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We all know "The Hitchcock Blonde"; those delicate, feminine, graceful, heroic and tragic blondes of male imaginings: Madeleine Carroll, Doris Day, Kim Novak, Priscilla Lane, Tippi Hedren, Janet Leigh and the Ultimate Supreme Blonde: Grace Kelly who got to work with the Master three times.

 

But what of Hitchcock's heroes...those wronged and tortured men? We all have our favorites but I want to speak of two of Hitchcock's greatest heroes:

 

CARY GRANT and JAMES STEWART

 

CARYJIMMY.jpg

 

Here they both are in 1940 with the great Kate Hepburn in "THE PHILADELPHIA STORY." Grant and Stewart are together for the first and only time. At that point in her career, Hepburn needed the box office fire power of both these leading men. Little did they know as they appear in this photo, that their paths would cross and be inextricably linked to Alfred Hitchcock.

 

YOUNGJAMESSTEWART.jpgJAMESINVERTIGO.jpg

 

JAMES STEWART appeared in "ROPE" (1948) "REAR WINDOW" (1954) "THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH" (1956) and "VERTIGO" (1958)

 

YOUNGCARYGRANT.jpgCARYGRANTOLDER.jpg

 

CARY GRANT appeared in "SUSPICION" (1941) "NOTORIOUS" (1946) "TO CATCH A THIEF" (1955) and "NORTH BY NORTHWEST" (1959)

 

Both these leading men brought different qualities to their collaboration with Hitchcock. In turn glib, playful, desperate, longing, sarcastic, romantic and dangerous. I'm sure you can think of many more. In thinking of both of these men, I don't find them to be easily interchangeable either. I don't see Cary doing "ROPE" and I can't quite see Jimmy climbing the rooftops of the Rivera in "TO CATCH A THIEF." My question to you...my litmus test for you is can you tell me which actor you prefer in the Hitchcock oeuvre: James Stewart or Cary Grant.

 

Now you may have other films of Hitch's that you prefer. Fine, I understand that. You may have other favorite actors in Hitch's film. Cool...it's a free country. But I just want to know, which actor do you prefer between Cary Grant and James Stewart. And tell me why.

 

Thanx so much.

Link to post
Share on other sites

WHoa, M'Ava! There is a lot to chew on here! I am loving your questions, answers and descriptions, and also how you break down the films by person - Jimmy or Cary. I hope it's OK if I barge in and take a shot at that question, while you are waiting for Frank to answer.

 

I'll say I lean more toward Jimmy, but that does NOT mean I am not a huge fan of Cary, and Cary in Hitch films. I think Jimmy got the better pictures to be in, so to say I picked him means I picked those Hitch films he was in. But I love both of them, and for completely different reasons. Jimmy is warmer than Cary, except in Vertigo, which I want to discuss later. (I have to ponder your post a bit. I do agree with most of what you write about Vertigo, I see it the same way you do, but my feelings about it are different.) But Jimmy is also more real to me than Cary. He is an everyman. Cary is like no one else, he's sophisticated, debonair.....it might be worth being killed by Cary, just to be near him for a few seconds. He's romance.

 

Cary is simply fun to watch, he's like being addicted to Raisinets, only less fattening. He's where I want to go to escape from reality. He's as good to watch as the Riviera, and the two together are iconic and the stuff that dreams are made of. Jimmy is where I go when I want to see emotion and fear.

 

*To Catch a Thief* and *Rope* are the two movies I can compare because they are similar - each must outsmart their opponent, each is in control of the situation at all times, and yet, look how different these two movies are! Granted, there is no love interest in Rope, or action beyond the four walls of the set. It's brain against brawn. Both Jimmy and Cary are smart as a whip. It's the one touch point for me in both of them, and I think Hitch is too. They all three intersect at the brain. I think though, we want to watch Cary move, and we want Jimmy to stand still and let us in on what he is thinking. Somehow, Cary thinks better on the run.

 

As for *Rear Window* - it's stagey. Now, I like stagey... but it puts you at a remove from the action. It also is there for a purpose - it says something about voyeurism, putting all that action over there, in the proscenium arch of an apartment building and it's surroundings. But for me, it's always been Hitch lite. I do like it, as I enjoy all of Hitch's "experiments" simply for what they are - it's damn fun to watch him play with his set, his little dollhouse. It also has a great deal of charm and humor. It's Hitch's popcorn movie, I find myself smiling when I watch it, almost all the way through, but lately I find there is more to it.

 

It's a filmed play, and I think this is kind of exciting to see, because Hitch is intersecting two things - a play and a film, or more accurately a play and "real life". He's connecting them, turning the play into something we can walk into, but can't get out of so easily. That's very interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw ABOUT LAST NIGHT and HAUNTED HONEYMOON at the Loew's Tower East back in 1986. (love Demi Moore in ALN, probably her last performance as a normal human being before she morphed into some muscled-up super freaky bionic woman)

 

Can't add a thing to Jackie's brilliant assessment of Grant/Stewart in the Hitch films -- she said it all for me -- romantic escapism (Cary) vs. the reality of emotion (Jimmy) Bravo, Jackie!

 

Litmus, schmitmus, lol. VERTIGO is some kind of a masterpiece, but I haven't figured it all out yet. So I'll hang back with the masses and REAR WINDOW.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hiya, Lethal Lady -- *Hello Grimesy. I come to torture you...I mean to pepper you with questions.*

 

All right!

 

*Yes, you're so right about the mechanics of "REAR WINDOW" and its plot and subtext...and of its emotion. Wish MY emotion were in there more. Not sure why I don't like it more b'cuz I like when movies flip the usual societal roles of the sexes. I do appreciate its masterfulness. I want to be sure to get that across.*

 

 

So what's your emotion?

 

 

*Well it'll be hard not for me to be swell-headed since your litmus of* *"VERTIGO" has me turning out to be a brainiac. I don't know if I'm any of those things but I'll take it. I'll take it! I do understand that those are things you get out of someone liking one film over another.*

 

 

I definitely see you as an intellectual film watcher. All the time? No. You've got your soft spots, too. And, for the record, I don't like the constant intellectual film watcher. It's too much for me. I like seeing some variety. But I also find the mass-appeal film watcher as being rather "empty."

 

 

*Yes yes, I understand this completely. And I'm happy to read that you enjoy "THE AWFUL TRUTH."*

 

 

I really like the "battle of the sexes" comedies from that era. *The Awful Truth* is one of the best of those films. A jealous Cary Grant is thoroughly entertaining.

 

 

*I didn't include all the films I have seen of Alfred Hitchcock's. If I did, you would see the bulk of my affection for his work is from the 1940's. I won't bore you with the break down of my choices of his films from each decade. I wanted to torture you not bore you.*

 

 

But your very favorites are from the 50s/60. Those do something for you a little more than those of the 40s. I tend to like Hitch in the 50s the very most.

 

 

*Your Hitch list is amazing Frank.*

 

 

Thank you!

 

 

*Fifty-one films. Are they in order of your affection for them, or were you just listing the Hitchcock films you've seen?*

 

 

Now you know better with me. It's always in order of preference.

 

 

*In your analysis of Bronxgirl's list of the Hitchcock films she preferred you said:* *"But the biggest thing I see with your favorites is that they lean 'female' for Hitch." What, in your opinion, makes an Alfred Hitchcock film "female" and what makes it "male"? Is it "romance" for girls and "murder" for boys? No, I know it's not that simplistic, so would you give me a couple of examples of each?*

 

 

For me, it's simply about who the main focus of a story is about. The story focus of *Rebecca* is a young woman who is struggling with issues women struggle with. That makes it very "female." A woman is going to identify more with such a film than a man is. *Suspicion* has a woman in the lead who is struggling with a female issue. *Shadow of a Doubt* ? Young girl. *Stage Fright* ? Girl. *The Lady Vanishes* ? Girl. It's truly amazing how many films Hitchcock made that place the woman in the spotlight.

 

 

If the focus is shared between characters, then I turn my eye to what's behind the story. I find romance films to be "female." "Action" is male. *To Catch a Thief* is more of a "female" Hitchcock because its primary focus is romance. Tone is another tip-off for me. I consider "light" to be female and "dark" to be male.

 

 

"Male" Hitch? *North by Northwest* would be an example of this. We are following a wronged male character. *The 39 Steps* is "male" because it features a guy chained to a disagreeable woman. *Strangers on a Train* is "male." *The Wrong Man* is "male." *Saboteur* is "male." *Frenzy* is very "male."

 

 

*And if a man likes a "female" Hitchcock film (and vice-versa) what do you believe that says about the man or the woman? Does it mean they have the sensibility of the opposite sex?*

 

 

It can mean a few things. There are definitely some women who have male sensibilities with certain things, like movies, and there are definitely men who have female sensibilities. Sometimes it's as you say, the person has the ability to possess both a male and female sensibility. I definitely like it when a person has the ability to carry both sensibilities. Still, we have our leanings.

 

 

For example, Quiet Gal possesses male sensibility. She tends to like westerns and action flicks and is more inclined to roll her eyes at the mushy stuff.

 

 

*I specifically have cited YOU and given you credit in my private life for me being able to now embrace and appreciate "NOTORIOUS." (I do still wish Dev had met Alicia half-way though. Boy, he sure tested her...into the arms of another man. And into the clutches of an evil mother-in-law. Hmmmm....I wonder how Hitch got along with Alma's mother).*

 

 

That's great! Thank you! If a guy is jealous, it's rarely "half-way." We tend to be possessive.

 

 

And I do agree with you with Hitch and Alma's mom. I bet there was something there. But that can be tricky since Alma was so hands on. She probably had problems with Hitch's mom, too, though. :D

 

 

*Funny I never found "MARNIE" tough or heavy. I've been watching that film since I was in the tenth grade. My understanding of it has changed since I was a teenager, of course, but I used to always breeze through it. Now as an adult I have a more deeper of understanding of it.*

 

 

I always find the humorless Hitch films to be on the heavy side, but just the topic matter of *Marnie* is extremely heavy for Hitch. Most Hitchcock films are relaxed, especially when it comes to sexuality. *Marnie* is the exact opposite. Sex is an anchor in *Marnie*.

 

 

*I ought to really challenge myself and give "TOPAZ" "TORN CURTAIN" and some of Hitchcock's earlier work more of a chance. I Confess, I love my favorites and visit them often like old friends.*

 

 

I typically look to expand my film universe. I want to know more. I'm also a completist.

 

 

I can't see you liking *Topaz* and *Torn Curtain*. Actually, you may like Karin Dor in *Topaz*. I'm completely drawn to her. The early Hitch films would be a major test for you because I see you liking more of a polished product with Hitch and his British work is mostly unpolished.

 

 

*But I just want to know, which actor do you prefer between Cary Grant and James Stewart. And tell me why.*

 

 

 

It's close for me since Jimmy Stewart is my second favorite actor and Cary Grant is my third favorite. With Hitch? I have to go with Cary Grant as being my favorite in terms of characters with Hitch. But when it comes to acting? I'd go with Jimmy.

 

 

The reason why I prefer Cary's characters is because I find them to be much more enjoyable. I'm a big fan of the "quiet" Cat. Cary is usually a "loud" performer, but he's very "quiet" in *To Catch a Thief*. Grace Kelly is the "loud" one.

 

 

I certainly enjoy "Johnnie" in *Suspicion*. It's a very "Cary" kind of character. He's nothing but charming. But then Hitch tosses in the dark side of Johnnie. What kind of man is he, really? Love those doubts.

 

 

I think Cary is at his funniest in *North by Northwest*. I find "Roger Thornhill" to be hilarious. I also find Devlin's jealous digs at Alicia in *Notorious* to be hilarious. Plus, I don't think I've seen Cary more "in love" than in *Notorious*. I really like Dev.

 

 

The reason why I prefer Jimmy's performances with Hitch is the kind of characters he played. "Rupert Cadell" is an arrogant jerk in *Rope*. When is Jimmy ever an arrogant jerk? I guess *The Philadelphia Story* would be one that comes close. Then he plays a weak, non-committal man in *Rear Window*. He neuters himself in that film. It's great. Then we get Jimmy as a married man and a father. In Hitchcock?! What?!

 

 

But the biggie is definitely *Vertigo*. We've seen Jimmy Stewart obsessed over something like revenge and hate in Anthony Mann's westerns but when have we seen Jimmy obsessed over sex? He turns really ugly because of it, too. Fascinating.

 

 

So when it comes to Hitch characters, I enjoy Cary more. But in terms of acting, it's easily Jimmy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it hard to choose between them...or their movies. Though *Vertigo* is to me the best of the best, I guess I prefer Cary Grant overall as a Hitchcock lead. He possesses an ambivalence that I think is perfectly "in tune, shall we say" with the master. I will add that Grant "got" Hitch's humor and knew how to put it across perfectly as no other.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: *North by Northwest*, I feel it's definitely a "movie movie", and very nearly perfect in that regard. It's been broadcast a lot on TCM so I don't seek it out much right now. I think it would be fun to see at a theater with friends, though. One thing I can never tire of: I think it contains just about the most exciting music score of any movie.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hiya, Mrs. Cooper -- Is this really you?! It can't be!

 

*Where'd the Coop group go? It's been forever since I've wandered around through these TCM halls so I kinda have to get used to it all over again. :P*

 

Oh, no! I must run to the Coop bomb shelter! Sanctuary!

 

 

 

*By the way, GREER IS THE BEST! COOP, COOP, COOP! ...What other actors can I torture you with chanting the names of?*

 

 

Wait a minute! I knew it! Butterscotch offed the real Mrs. Cooper!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hola, Bronxilla -- *FRENZY is rancidly compelling.*

 

:D It's yet another Hitch film that I find very funny. I also love the direction and the ending.

 

*I'm always amazed by Hitchcock's intuitive and sophisticated ability to plumb the depths of human relationships -- male/female, parent/child.*

 

I'm always amazed by your writing ability! You have a terrific vocabulary and use it exceptionally well.

 

You're very right about the psychology of Hitch. There's some real depth to be found in his movies, including his "popcorn."

 

 

*Not a Tippi fan. I would have preferred Grace Kelly in MARNIE, and anybody else in THE BIRDS.*

 

 

I like Tippi. I can see where she can get on one's nerves, though.

 

 

I can't see Grace Kelly as "Marnie." I see her as being too soft and delicate. There's a harshness to Tippi. When she tells you "no," it comes across strongly.

 

 

*It's not Marlene -- the problem with STAGE FRIGHT for me is Jane Wyman. I just can't believe she's Alastair Sim's daughter, lol. And I'm all too aware it's Jane Wyman-doing-Hitchcock, if you know what I mean.*

 

 

Oh, I see. I basically view the film as Hitch's "Nancy Drew."

 

 

*Yeah, I enjoy ROPE, except for Jimmy Stewart's performance. He's just so serious, and makes me nervous, lol.*

 

 

That's funny! It really is a different kind of Jimmy.

 

 

*Valli's performance is what keeps me coming back to THE PARADINE CASE. Gregory Peck is hopeless, lol. His character's obsession with her reminds me more of REBECCA than VERTIGO. Peck is "The Girl" (Joan Fontaine) fascinated with the glamorous, mysterious first wife.*

 

 

Now that's really interesting. So do you think Anthony Keane (Gregory Peck) is fascinated with the deceased Colonel? I think he's fascinated by Mrs. Paradine (Alida Valli). He's obsessed with her and his wife knows it. His playing "detective" at Hindley Hall was to find out about Latour (Louis Jordan) because he wanted to know if he was her lover. He's a "bedroom detective."

 

 

*Otto Keller in I CONFESS is one of Hitchcock's memorable human monsters but the film itself is ponderous and uninvolving, especially the relationship between Baxter and Clift.*

*I just didn't care. And I thought Karl Malden didn't belong in a Hitchcock story, lol.*

 

 

You're right, Karl Malden doesn't seem like "Hitchcock." I usually find anything that deals with clergy to be ponderous.

 

 

*TORN CURTAIN seems stale to me. Lila Kedrova also overacts, but, that's nothing new. Newman and Andrews are another "wholesome" couple caught up in sinister circumstances, like Stewart and Day in THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH, also Cummings and Lane in SABOTEUR.*

 

 

Great comparison! I think you are right, that Hitch was probably looking to make an offshoot of *The Man Who Knew Much*.

 

 

*As for NORTH BY NORTHWEST, it's not so much the overexposure, but the fact that it's...I don't know...too perfect? Too slick?*

 

 

It is definitely "slick." I like Miss G's calling it a "movie movie." But I do like it a lot.

 

 

*I can't watch SABOTEUR without snickering, because Bob's encounter with Priscilla's uncle reminds me so much of Boris Karloff and the hermit in THE BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN.*

 

 

It is! It really is! I like that scene, though.

 

 

*Like SHADOW OF A DOUBT, SABOTEUR is a "love letter" to our country, glorifying and exposing the light an dark aspects of the American dream within the political context of the times, and we can of course extrapolate on the universal human condition.*

 

 

You know, I never thought of that. That's an interesting love letter, since Hitch was basically saying we've got our heads in the sand because we are either happy or bored in our little world and this selfishness occupies our attention. Interesting.

 

 

*I'm loving TO CATCH A THIEF more and more. I don't care that much about Cary and Grace's relationship. I just soak up the French Riviera ambience.. And I enjoy the mystery element, too.*

 

 

And I'm the opposite! The entire reason why I like the film is the Cat and Francie. I absolutely love them as a couple.

 

*Did Hitch think UNDER CAPRICORN was just a "costume" drama? Its themes are quite modern.*

 

 

What are the modern themes?

Link to post
Share on other sites

KIMMY PINKINEATER!!!

 

By the way, GREER IS THE BEST! COOP, COOP, COOP! ...What other actors can I torture you with chanting the names of?

 

You go girlie!

 

Frank-a-Zoid,

 

Wait a minute! I knew it! Butterscotch offed the real Mrs. Cooper!

 

Do I really look that mean? :D :D :D

 

It's yet another Hitch film that I find very funny. I also love the direction and the ending.

 

Frenzy isn't funny! I just took that friend of mine, Sammy, to go see this on the big screen at the Paramount and he thought it was funny too....you're both weird!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Heya, Meanie Mint -- *Do I really look that mean? :D :D :D*

 

Yes!

 

*Frenzy isn't funny!*

 

Yes, it is! Not the entire film, but it has some hilarious scenes. The final line is very funny.

 

*I just took that friend of mine, Sammy, to go see this on the big screen at the Paramount and he thought it was funny too....you're both weird!*

 

I know I'm weird! It's good to hear Sammy has a Hitchcockian sense of humor.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes!

 

you know, i actually had devil's food cake cookies at my grandmama's house the day before yesterday and i am going to rub it in your face just for that comment. heehee!

 

Yes, it is! Not the entire film, but it has some hilarious scenes. The final line is very funny

 

Okay there are maybe one or two lines in the whole movie that made me laugh...and i laugh at everything. you can ask anyone! I dunno, the plot of Frenzy made me question Hitchcock's filmmaking abilities toward his later years. I mean it just wasn't as classy as his other stuff. However, that may just be me and my silliness speaking. :D

 

I know I'm weird!

 

vast understatement of the year, ladies and gentlemen. :P:P

 

It's good to hear Sammy has a Hitchcockian sense of humor.

 

Sammy loves hitchcock and always thinks he can stump me with questions regarding his movies. And he used to think this way simply because i'm a girl and he didn't think i would even like hitch movies...well i showed him. :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
© 2021 Turner Classic Movies Inc. A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...