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The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread


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*Did I make it seem like I DO want to keep up with the Joneses? Or that I was trying to teach my daughter to do so? I certainly hope not.*

 

That's how I took it! I thought you were saying the Mister doesn't wish to play that game and it frustrates you. I was actually surprised to hear you would want to keep up with the Joneses. That doesn't seem like your style.

 

*I was trying (I guess not very well) to understand why a woman like Mrs. Adams would feel like her daughter did not have enough of the finer things in life, I was NOT condoning her behavior in any way. These are the kinds of things that I find fascinating in characters and relationships. How, over time, a woman and a man who are obviously nice people, who love one another, would end up doing things or feeling things that they might not realize are destructive to their whole family.*

 

 

That was really nicely said. I also like seeing such relationships. I think the pressures of Society start to creep into a marriage and home over time because we become settled in life. But we must allow it to do so. Mrs. Adams has allowed this to happen.

 

 

I would be all right if she wanted to make her house a little nicer or dress her daughter a little nicer but not for the reasons she does. That's where the problem lies.

 

 

*I just didn't want Mrs. Adams to be castigated as the only one who contributed to the Adams family (hee hee) problems.*

 

 

And you and the other gals have succeeded! You've helped me to understand the situation better, especially from a woman's point of view. Mrs. Adams just happens to represent the kind of woman that really bothers me. But I do believe she's still a good woman. She's just lost her way.

 

 

*I am sorry if my last comment came off sounding snippy.*

 

 

That's always good with me!

 

 

*I didn't mean it to, I meant it as a bit of a joke. Men are not the only ones who have a hard time dealing with issues like this. It comes up, and not just once, but over and over again, and we can't always run off to the study. We deal with it, and it doesn't always come at the time you want it to. You don't get the choice of when to deal and when not to. My last comment was not supposed to be a cut to you or to Mr. Favell.*

 

 

Oh, I'm glad to hear it. What's funny about me is that I'd rather spoil my wife and children than not. I just don't like those who expect it or demand it. You'll never make those types happy. It also removes the special feeling a person gets when they get nice things if they are always getting them.

 

 

*I guess the general fear that men have of "women's stuff" mystifies me.*

 

 

It's not really a fear. I think it's more about us finding it to be silly. The kind of things girls and women worry about and fuss over is sometimes remarkable. And we men get all upset over the dumbest stuff, such as our sports teams losing. It plays both ways.

 

 

*I hope I did not offend you?*

 

 

Offend me? No! That was sweet of you to worry about that.

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I don't disagree with anything you said, Fordy Guns. Mr. Adams did sit on his rear too much. So you've all helped me to see that. He should have taken more pride in himself and this would have helped him take more pride in his own home. You were all right to point out he needed to stand up to his wife more instead of looking to hide from her. I think he did that because he knew she was more right than wrong with her criticisms of him.

 

And you are right about his kissing his boss' rear too much. But I believe he was afraid to rock the boat. He was a meek man. There's no getting around that.

 

Alright. To be fair I admire that he was rather a pure soul, I do not believe he was aware of ANY of the effects of his choices and attitudes. And his meekness about life in general was one of his virtues, it's the blind adoration of the boss that was misplaced and the lack of interest in his home. The saddest moment to me in the whole movie sums up his relationship to reality and his relationship with his daughter:

 

"Alice, you don't care about going to parties and all that do you? Is it so important?"

 

And all Alice could do is run and cry. He probably saw Alice as still a little girl who didn't need finery and friends, and who looked up to him as her hero. But she was becoming a woman and it wasn't really fair to assume she was so unlike most other girls as to not want certain things to be a certain way. If he'd taken just a little more pride as you say, she might have felt more confident herself and less dependent on the idea of being popular. But her father was furtive and her mother was fretful...how do you get to be confident in an ambience like that (unless you're like her brother who just gets the heck out of the house as much he can and small blame to him).

 

So it's not about blaming Mr. Adams, I see it as Kathy said, they all had weaknesses and unfortunately they were the kind of weaknesses that society in small and big towns alike prey on. The snobs will look down their noses, the boss will patronize and exploit his employees, the mothers will nag and the fathers will hide. It's a darned heavy movie to depict all that, if you ask me. I think Stevens did a sensational job.

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*So it's not about blaming Mr. Adams, I see it as Kathy said, they all had weaknesses and unfortunately they were the kind of weaknesses that society in small and big towns alike prey on. The snobs will look down their noses, the boss will patronize and exploit his employees, the mothers will nag and the fathers will hide. It's a darned heavy movie to depict all that, if you ask me. I think Stevens did a sensational job.*

 

Wow! That was sensational. Yes! Oh, I totally feel that way about it. To me these are heavy issues dealt with in the most homely of settings. That's what makes it a favorite for me.

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*Alright. To be fair I admire that he was rather a pure soul, I do not believe he was aware of ANY of the effects of his choices and attitudes. And his meekness about life in general was one of his virtues, it's the blind adoration of the boss that was misplaced and the lack of interest in his home.*

 

And I think that's what I'm responding to. I'm seeing the wife just chewing out the husband over not making enough money so that their daughter can be like the other girls and snag a rich man. I would dislike a man who was berating a woman like that.

 

*The saddest moment to me in the whole movie sums up his relationship to reality and his relationship with his daughter:*

 

 

* "Alice, you don't care about going to parties and all that do you? Is it so important?"*

 

*And all Alice could do is run and cry. He probably saw Alice as still a little girl who didn't need finery and friends, and who looked up to him as her hero. But she was becoming a woman and it wasn't really fair to* *assume she was so unlike most other girls as to not want certain things to be a certain way. If he'd taken just a little more pride as you say, she might have felt more confident herself and less dependent on the idea of being popular. But her father was furtive and her mother was fretful...how do you get to be confident in an ambience like that (unless you're like her brother who just gets the heck out of the house as much he can and small blame to him).*

 

Look at you! That was wonderful. That was a good moment because it validated the mother's berating the father. The thing is, Alice really didn't need to change anything. She was being led to believe she needed to. But it was untrue. You women love to believe we men see some fancy girl and think she's great and that a plain girl won't do a thing for us. Not even close. Women create their own monsters. But they want to.

 

*So it's not about blaming Mr. Adams, I see it as Kathy said, they all had weaknesses and unfortunately they were the kind of weaknesses that society in small and big towns alike prey on. The snobs will look down their noses, the boss will patronize and exploit his employees, the mothers will nag and the fathers will hide. It's a darned heavy movie to depict all that, if you ask me. I think Stevens did a sensational job.*

 

That's an excellent point. There really is a lot going on in *Alice Adams*. There is real depth to the film.

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Look at you! That was wonderful. That was a good moment because it validated the mother's berating the father. The thing is, Alice really didn't need to change anything. She was being led to believe she needed to. But it was untrue. You women love to believe we men see some fancy girl and think she's great and that a plain girl won't do a thing for us. Not even close. Women create their own monsters. But they want to.

 

I'm not so sure. Boys love the vivacious, bubbly (and consequently, "popular") girls quite often. And as Jackie pointed out, in the book, the boy does not come back. Reinforcing that the code was strict. "You don't have? Then you stay on your own side of the tracks."

 

I"m afraid men are much more like this today, than even then. College educated men, that is. Sadly, the more educated they become, the more status conscious they become as well. Women have to "measure up" and be "worthy" of them, whereas it used to be the other way around. It's gone from one extreme to another, and girls like "Alice" still fall through the cracks.

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*I'm not so sure. Boys love the vivacious, bubbly (and consequently, "popular") girls quite often. And as Jackie pointed out, in the book, the boy does not come back. Reinforcing that the code was strict. "You don't have? Then you stay on your own side of the tracks."*

 

 

Then is that guy really worth all the trouble?

 

 

*I"m afraid men are much more like this today, than even then. College educated men, that is. Sadly, the more educated they become, the more status conscious they become as well. Women have to "measure up" and be "worthy" of them, whereas it used to be the other way around. It's gone from one extreme to another, and girls like "Alice" still fall through the cracks.*

 

 

Yes, the men of money need a trophy wife. But I know far more regular guys and gals. I guess it's all about what area you live in.

 

 

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*Did I make it seem like I DO want to keep up with the Joneses? Or that I was trying to teach my daughter to do so? I certainly hope not**.*

*That's how I took it! I thought you were saying the Mister doesn't wish to play that game and it frustrates you. I was actually surprised to hear you would want to keep up with the Joneses. That doesn't seem like your style.*

Wow. I can't believe you thought that of me.

No, I thought I was very clear in saying that running up and hiding in the study is no way to teach your kids. They certainly won't understand about why you should be happy with what you've got, if you're not even there to prove it to them. I was saying that the matter WILL come up, no matter how you try to put it off or blot it out, and no matter how you raise your kids. You could be the best parent in the world and they are still going to want things they can't have. It's going to come up over and over, as kids meet new people at school, as they see others with things they think they want, as the standard of living sets higher and higher levels for people, and as the middle class earns less and less. Running away, or just telling your kid to forget about it is not going to teach anything.

I find as a parent that no subject is ever closed - a lesson is not always learned the first time. The things you thought your kids had a good grasp of come around again when you least expect it. You won't be ready. It's very easy to turn a blind eye and conveniently forget about it or let somebody else do it. That's what someone is doing when they run to their studies.

This is what I was trying to say, in my own awkward way.

*I was trying (I guess not very well) to understand why a woman like Mrs. Adams would feel like her daughter did not have enough of the finer things in life, I was NOT condoning her behavior in any way. These are the kinds of things that I find fascinating in characters and relationships. How, over time, a woman and a man who are obviously nice people, who love one another, would end up doing things or feeling things that they might not realize are destructive to their whole family.*

*That was really nicely said. I also like seeing such relationships. I think the pressures of Society start to creep into a marriage and home over time because we become settled in life. But we must allow it to do so. Mrs. Adams has allowed this to happen.*


I think you mean musn't. and I completely agree with that... those pressures are hard to fight off in this day and age, and so you have to be hands on with your kids, not just expect them to know how to fight those pressures on their own.


*I would be all right if she wanted to make her house a little nicer or dress her daughter a little nicer but not for the reasons she does. That's where the problem lies.*


What were her reasons again? I haven't seen it in a long time.


*I just didn't want Mrs. Adams to be castigated as the only one who contributed to the Adams family (hee hee) problems.*


*And you and the other gals have succeeded! You've helped me to understand the situation better, especially from a woman's point of view. Mrs. Adams just happens to represent the kind of woman that really bothers me. But I do believe she's still a good woman. She's just lost her way.*


I understand. There are characters who rub me the wrong way too, and I have to battle within myself to decide if I am being fair.


*I am sorry if my last comment came off sounding snippy.*


*That's always good with me!*


You like snippy? I'll try it more often! :)


*I didn't mean it to, I meant it as a bit of a joke. Men are not the only ones who have a hard time dealing with issues like this. It comes up, and not just once, but over and over again, and we can't always run off to the study. We deal with it, and it doesn't always come at the time you want it to. You don't get the choice of when to deal and when not to. My last comment was not supposed to be a cut to you or to Mr. Favell.*


*Oh, I'm glad to hear it. What's funny about me is that I'd rather spoil my wife and children than not. I just don't like those who expect it or demand it. You'll never make those types happy. It also removes the special feeling a person gets when they get nice things if they are always getting them.*


It's great if you have the money to be able to spoil them.


I agree, if you don't have to wait, it's not anything special when you do get it.


*I guess the general fear that men have of "women's stuff" mystifies me.*


*It's not really a fear. I think it's more about us finding it to be silly. The kind of things girls and women worry about and fuss over is sometimes remarkable. And we men get all upset over the dumbest stuff, such as our sports teams losing. It plays both ways.*


Yes, it does.


*I hope I did not offend you?*


*Offend me? No! That was sweet of you to worry about that.*


I don't argue well. I either worry that I was too harsh, or I get emotional then feel guilty.





Edited by: JackFavell on Aug 3, 2011 9:35 PM
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*Wow. I can't believe you thought that of me.*

 

 

Actually, I didn't think that of you. That's why I was surprised when I thought you said you wanted to keep up with the Joneses.

 

 

*No, I thought I was very clear in saying that running up and hiding in the study is no way to teach your kids. They certainly won't understand about why you should be happy with what you've got, if you're not even there to prove it to them. I was saying that the matter WILL come up, no matter how you try to put it off or blot it out, and no matter how you raise your kids. You could be the best parent in the world and they are still going to want things they can't have. It's going to come up over and over, as kids meet new people at school, as they see others with things they think they want, as the standard of living sets higher and higher levels for people, and as the middle class earns less and less. Running away, or just telling your kid to forget about it is not going to teach anything.*

 

 

 

Oh! Yes, I completely agree with that. I believe you should always reinforce your feelings with your child. You should never run from that. As you say, if they don't come from the home, they are gonna come from someplace else. You must take an active role in your child's life. However, I do not believe a parent should dominate a child's life. I don't believe in crowding a child. Again, it's about balance.

 

*That was really nicely said. I also like seeing such relationships. I think the pressures of Society start to creep into a marriage and home over time because we become settled in life. But we must allow it to do so. Mrs. Adams has allowed this to happen.*

 

*I think you mean musn't. and I completely agree with that... those pressures are hard to fight off in this day and age, and so you have to be hands on with your kids, not just expect them to know how to fight those pressures on their own.*

 

 

I did mean to say "must" but I worded it horribly. What I was trying to say is that a couple decides how much power Society has within the home and marriage. They assign the weight. They are the ones who decide to allow Society to enter the home. I do know that Society just forces itself into the home, at times, but we still control how much sway Society will possess within.

 

*What were her reasons again? I haven't seen it in a long time.*

 

Mrs. Adams' primary reason is Alice's ability to compete with the other girls for men. She feels Alice and the family need to keep up with the Joneses. I do think Alice should have a new gown and Miss G is right about the house being improved some. Mr. Adams could certainly do a little more than he is.

 

*You like snippy? I'll try it more often! :)*

 

You'll need some skillets, too!

 

*It's great if you have the money to be able to spoil them.*

 

You can spoil within your means. Is it the major spoiling that the materialistic demand? No. But you can still spoil.

 

*I agree, if you don't have to wait, it's not anything special when you do get it.*

 

 

That's how I feel.

 

*I don't argue well. I either worry that I was too harsh, or I get emotional then feel guilty.*

 

I know. :) I think it's cute. You like to lash or you go real quiet and then you want to make up. The lash is better than the real quiet, especially when there is a make up. A real quiet woman is a woman a man should always worry about.

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*Oh! Yes, I completely agree with that. I believe you should always reinforce your feelings with your child. You should never run from that. As you say, if they don't come from the home, they are gonna come from someplace else. You must take an active role in your child's life. However, I do not believe a parent should dominate a child's life. I don't believe in crowding a child. Again, it's about balance.*

 

 

 

 

 

That's true.

 

 

*I did mean to say "must" but I worded it horribly. What I was trying to say is that a couple decides how much power Society has within the home and marriage. They assign the weight. They are the ones who decide to allow Society to enter the home. I do know that Society just forces itself into the home, at times, but we still control how much sway Society will possess within.*

 

 

 

 

 

ah I get it now.

 

 

*What were her reasons again? I haven't seen it in a long time.*

 

 

*Mrs. Adams' primary reason is Alice's ability to compete with the other girls for men. She feels Alice and the family need to keep up with the Joneses. I do think Alice should have a new gown and Miss G is right about the house being improved some. Mr. Adams could certainly do a little more than he is.*

 

 

She wants them to be high hat. To be above others in their neighborhood. I remember.

 

 

I know how it feels to be looked at as the poor relation. It's hard because other people looking down their nose at you has the effect of making you want to look down your nose at someone else. You don't feel like you are on the footing of the people who hurt you unless you are better than someone else. It's catching, and that is what is horrible about it. It also puts those who hurt you on a pedestal as something they are not, gives them power over *your* life. The bullied becomes the bully. I work hard in this area of the country to fight those mean spirited feelings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*You like snippy? I'll try it more often! :)*

 

 

*You'll need some skillets, too!*

 

 

 

With sauerkraut in them!

 

 

 

 

 

*You can spoil within your means. Is it the major spoiling that the materialistic demand? No. But you can still spoil.*

 

 

I like that. Can I use it to refer back to?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I know. :)I think it's cute. You like to lash or you go real quiet and then you want to make up. The lash is better than the real quiet, especially when there is a make up. A real quiet woman is a woman a man should always worry about.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are hilarious!

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Aug 3, 2011 10:59 PM

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*I discovered that wild store in Rome of all places! Then I was thrilled to find out they have them here! I just loooooooooove the smells and textures. It's like bathing in a banana split. :)*

 

Ha! Yes it is.... so far, I like the avocado one best.

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*She wants them to be high hat. To be above others in their neighborhood. I remember.*

 

Right. If she would say, "we need a new chair because this one is ruined," that would be good. But she's thinking, "everyone is going to see we're poor!" That's not good. Basically, she's saying, you become good people if you have money and possessions. And I do know those kind of people are out there. Thankfully, I'm not around any of them.

 

 

*I know how it feels to be looked at as the poor relation. It's hard because other people looking down their nose at you has the effect of making you want to look down your nose at someone else. You don't feel like you are on the footing of the people who hurt you unless you are better than someone else. It's catching, and that is what is horrible about it. It also puts those who hurt you on a pedestal as something they are not, gives them power over your life. The bullied becomes the bully. I work hard in this area of the country to fight those mean spirited feelings.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's excellent, Jackie. You're right about that. It really does take a strong person to handle being different than the rest, be it whatever those differences are. I'd say it's one of the most difficult things we have to deal with when confronting Society. Can we accept being different? Can we accept people possibly thinking less of us because we are different? It's a test of strength and courage.

 

*With sauerkraut in them!*

 

:D No, you can just toss that in the pot with the pork!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I like that. Can I use it to refer back to?*

 

Sure. I think it's very important to treat your loved ones throughout the year. Little surprises go a long way. And if you can speak your feelings with those surprises, you've got something.

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I need to trade up very badly...

 

This is for Mrs. Cooper. It's raining Gary and Rudy!

 

 

 

 

Did I tell you I thought UNDER CAPRICORN had "modern" themes? Can't imagine what I was thinking. UC is all about self-sacrifice, and that's pretty old-fashioned these days, and has been for quite some time.

 

 

I have writing ability? Thanks for the compliment!

 

 

MAVEN -- Hitch Cary vs. Hitch Jimmy? I agree to a "T" with Baby T -- Cary! He's got debonair mysterious elegance but also a sweetness, is (for the most part) in control, romantic, British, handsome, sexy, dark good looks and those lovely cow eyes -- plus, Cary seemed to be "in" on the Hitchcock jokes. I always feel terribly sorry for Stewart in a Hitchcock movie, his raw nerves are all exposed, and that makes me uncomfortable.

 

I can see the humor in FRENZY that you speak of. Hitchcock is never funnier than when he's being repulsive, lol.

 

 

Gregory Peck's Anthony Keane really bothers me because it's such a by-the-numbers (but NOT in a good, NORTH BY NORTHWEST way) character. Good men are often attracted to bad women. Yawn.

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Aug 4, 2011 9:00 PM

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Good men and good women are often attracted to the wrong people, there's nothing new under the sun.

 

I need to see THE PARADINE CASE again and get back to y'all. I don't think Anthony Keane wants to wallow in the mud, though, as the precocious Pat Hitchcock-substitute daughter of Coburn suggests.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jI0UtN2iVM

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}*I'm watching* *Sidewalks of London...I forgot how great a little film it is! So delightful!*

>

> It is. It really is. I was surprised by how much I ended up loving it.

 

 

I was really crying by the end. Laughton puts on quite a show, and anyone can see how he could be so taken by Vivvy's "Liberty". Funny, I watched *The Big Street* last night and the stories sort of remind me of each other.

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