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The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread


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Money has affected all the sports in some fashion. I'm not saying for the worse. What it has allowed the athletes to be is full time athletes. Back when I was young and interested in sports athletes had off season jobs. They worked like all the non-athletes. This cut into their ability to work out all year, as if they would, and keep in shape to play. Granted advances in training, diet and other things have led to players being bigger, faster and stronger. When I was a kid most offesive linemen in the NFL probably didn't weigh more than about 250 or so.

 

Basketball left me behind when it became, for me, moreof a play ground game. It was all about the dunk or fancy passing. I just don't like the attitudes but I haven't really watched it in several years.

 

Baseball is a complicated game for as simple as it is set up. You bring up an interesting thing about the nostalgia. I think part of it may be the almost anyone can play it. There is a broad appeal in that. However, I think it lost a lot of luster for people during the 1994 strike. People didn't have the stomach for athletes making that kind of money going out on strike no matter how justified it may have been to the athletes. Maybe it's that a lot of the fun is gone from sports. It's too much business. Maybe it's too much media. We didn't know a lot about players. We didn't get sound bites and endless highlights. Not every game was televised. Maybe we are so saturated it has lost some of its novelty.

 

Random thoughts from an old guy.

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Good morning, Baltimore Chris! -- At least you didn't say you stopped watching football after the Colts left town. That actually would be a pretty legit reason, too.

 

Money has affected all the sports in some fashion.

 

I think it affects most everything anymore.

 

I'm not saying for the worse. What it has allowed the athletes to be is full time athletes. Back when I was young and interested in sports athletes had off season jobs. They worked like all the non-athletes. This cut into their ability to work out all year, as if they would, and keep in shape to play. Granted advances in training, diet and other things have led to players being bigger, faster and stronger. When I was a kid most offesive linemen in the NFL probably didn't weigh more than about 250 or so.

 

All very true. Today's athlete has the luxury to focus on their craft all year long, if they desire to do so. Teams also look to keep their players on a perpetual program. This is why I believe today's sports are better as a whole in terms of physical ability.

 

As in the case of most everything, there's both good and bad involved with all-year training. The good is that athletes can become bigger, faster, and stronger. The bad is that they can become greedy.

 

Basketball left me behind when it became, for me, moreof a play ground game. It was all about the dunk or fancy passing. I just don't like the attitudes but I haven't really watched it in several years.

 

Now that's a very valid reason not to watch the game to me. The style of play and the attitudes have certainly changed in the past 20 years. This is what the NBA needs to address.

 

Baseball is a complicated game for as simple as it is set up. You bring up an interesting thing about the nostalgia. I think part of it may be the almost anyone can play it. There is a broad appeal in that.

 

Baseball tends to appeal to older men because they grew up playing it more than today's boys do. Today's boys look to play other sports a little more, particularly football and basketball. Baseball is one of the most difficult sports to play.

 

However, I think it lost a lot of luster for people during the 1994 strike. People didn't have the stomach for athletes making that kind of money going out on strike no matter how justified it may have been to the athletes.

 

All four major team sports in America have suffered through a strike or lockout in the past 20 years. Baseball is the sport that always gets the heat for it though. Why? I believe it's because those who cite the strike as being why they don't watch baseball anymore grew up with baseball back in the 50s and 60s; a time when baseball truly was "America's pastime." Again, I believe it is the nostalgia that is connected to baseball that brings out the disdain of the strike. There is far less nostalgia attached to the other team sports. Pro football is America's pastime of today.

 

Losing the World Series is what hurt me the most with the strike.

 

Maybe it's that a lot of the fun is gone from sports. It's too much business. Maybe it's too much media. We didn't know a lot about players. We didn't get sound bites and endless highlights. Not every game was televised. Maybe we are so saturated it has lost some of its novelty.

 

I believe this to be very true. We live an age of great access. Again, there is good and bad with this. The good is that we know more. The bad is that we know more. ;) Everyone and everything is wanting our attention... because of the money that it brings. There is only so much time in the day, so we have to make choices. What brings us joy and happiness? What relaxes us? If you are lucky, you have a who or whos to share the whats with.

 

Random thoughts from an old guy.

 

Your thoughts may be random but their meaning and value is anything but.

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*I believe Shaq wishes for Kobe to kiss his opus.*

 

I?m pretty sure Shaq also asked Kobe what his (Shaq?s) ?opus? tasted like. Classy ;). I have never liked either one of them so my opinion of neither has changed.

 

Baseball is definitely the sport most wrapped up in its past and I think that just adds another fun dimension to it. Thanks to all the stats, I can relive Lou Gehrig?s whole career (my all time fave player, even more than my Sugarbritches; otherwise known as Brad Ausmus to those of you not familiar with my crazy player nicknames :) ). Do y?all know that in his entire career, Lou only ground into 2 double plays during the regular season? Those were both in his last season where he only played 8 games. I think he also ground into one during a playoff game but then he hit two homers once in a World Series game so I guess it evens out ;). He?s also the Yankee?s all time hits leader with 2,614; 80 more than Ruth during his tenure with the club.

 

Okay, there?s your baseball history lesson for today. Tomorrow, how pitcher Charles ?Old Hoss? Radbourn got 59 wins in one season :).

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Bringing up Gehrig made me think whether people will look back with fondness and admiration for Cal Ripken (who broke Gehrig's consecutive game streak by a wide margin. 2632 to 2130.) that we look at Gehrig. If not will it be because of the nature of Gehrig's death. Cal is beloved in Baltimore as Brooks Robinson or Johnny Unitas but does he transcend this location with his accomplishment.

 

He got more press because of when he did it but does that same press availiblity also remove some of the luster because it we have so many other images to have replaced it.

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*"When I was a kid most offesive linemen in the NFL probably didn't weigh more than about 250 or so."* - movieman1957

 

So true. Do the two on the right look anything like today's Offensive Linemen?

 

hr.jpg

(Paul Hornung / Jerry Kramer / Fuzzy Thurston)

The one on the right is a Left Guard - and a friend of the family. (Hi Fuzzy!)

 

Kyle In Hollywood

 

Message was edited by: hlywdkjk

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Hey, Laffite, Chris, and Kyle. Do you think we are torturing the gals with all this sports talk? My one female cousin always used to make me laugh when she'd say to me, "you're still talking about sports?" :D

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That a good question about Ripken?s legacy. I don?t dislike Ripken, but I don?t like that he broke Lou?s record and like you said, did it by such a wide margin. I?m so curious how much longer Lou?s streak would have been if he could have kept on playing. After his death they did some x-rays on him and found that in just one of his hands he had a dozen fractures that he had sustained throughout his career. Now that?s one tough cookie to have a broken finger and keep playing. That would sideline most players. If I get a papercut I?ll whine about it for days ;).

 

I think it?s unfortunate too that b/c of the nature of Gehrig?s death, that possibly overshadows his fabulous career. He was undoubtedly one of the most talented guys who ever played the game and he is still tops or very near the top in many categories. Another one of his records is in danger though. He holds the record for career grand slams with 23. Manny Ramirez has 20. I will be absolutely sick if that jack**s beats Lou?s record. Lou was also one of the best men to ever play. He didn?t run around on his wife, stir up trouble in the clubhouse or anywhere else for that matter, and he was basically just a great guy. I wish we had more of those around nowadays, and not just in sports ;).

 

This is one of my fave pics of Lou. He had multiple surgeries in the offseason in 1930 to fix injuries suffered during the year. Not much could bring him down though and in nearly every picture I have of him, he had that million dollar smile.

 

1930aftersurgeries.jpg

 

prideoftheyankees15.jpg

 

Hey wait a minute, that?s not Lou! I don?t know who that guy is ;).

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*So are you going to ride your brand new red bike with your brand new red dress on? You could spin some heads while spinnin' your wheels.*

 

You know, I think I will. I will wear either Keds or black Chuck Taylors instead of heels and I will have a baguette and a bottle of wine in my bike basket and everyone who sees me will know my joie de vivre!

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>I think it?s unfortunate too that b/c of the nature of Gehrig?s death, that possibly overshadows his fabulous career. He was undoubtedly one of the most talented guys who ever played the game and he is still tops or very near the top in many categories

 

On the one hand Lou's illness makes you wonder how long he might have played on the other I think his illness is a reminder of how great a player he was. I rarely hear anyone mention Gehrig without talking about both his illness and his career. I think nonsports fans wouldn't know him from the man on the moon if he hadn't died of that illness.

 

Ripken may not enter the general public's thoughts because he has had a normal post playing life. In Baltimore he is well loved for being a family man and ambassador for Baltimore. A local guy who got to play for the local team and was good enough for the Hall of Fame. I'm not sure in 20 years they will talk about Ripken, regardless of his streak, the way we talk about Gehrig.

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Good morning, Biker Chick -- So are you going to ride your brand new red bike with your brand new red dress on? You could spin some heads while spinnin' your wheels.

 

You know, I think I will. I will wear either Keds or black Chuck Taylors instead of heels and I will have a baguette and a bottle of wine in my bike basket and everyone who sees me will know my joie de vivre!

 

I think that would be splendid. I actually do. A nice picnic ye shall have. So who's the sensitive ponytail man who is fortunate enough to share your wine?

 

Hey, Cowboy Chris -- On the one hand Lou's illness makes you wonder how long he might have played on the other I think his illness is a reminder of how great a player he was. I rarely hear anyone mention Gehrig without talking about both his illness and his career. I think nonsports fans wouldn't know him from the man on the moon if he hadn't died of that illness.

 

Excellent, excellent point.

 

Ripken may not enter the general public's thoughts because he has had a normal post playing life. In Baltimore he is well loved for being a family man and ambassador for Baltimore. A local guy who got to play for the local team and was good enough for the Hall of Fame. I'm not sure in 20 years they will talk about Ripken, regardless of his streak, the way we talk about Gehrig.

 

Ripken will be revered by baseball fans more and more in the coming years. Why? Steroids. Ripken represents the clean, untarnished ballplayer who played in both the pre-Steroids Era and the Steroids Era. I don't see many of the greats of the Steroids Era being revered like Ripken, which will greatly elevate his status.

 

I wouldn't consider it torture as much as maybe a minor interruption. Besides it might give them a chance to get some tea.

 

Oh, yes, their tea. I like it when they pour their own much better. :)

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Ripken and Craig Biggio sound like they are kinda in the same boat. They are big deals where they played and both hall of fame caliber players as well as ?good guys?. Biggio, even though he?s from New York state, has chosen to stay in Houston and that?s where his kids were born and have been raised so that?s where his family feels at home. He and his wife do a lot of charity stuff, especially for the Sunshine Kids, and everybody there just loves them. I can remember his rookie year when I was 11 and it just seems so strange that he?s not on the Astros this year. When (not if, but when :) ) he gets elected to the hall of fame, I?m gonna be there. There?s no one in the hall yet who has been inducted as an Astro and either he or Jeff Bagwell are our best chances in the next few years.

 

People, especially casual or non-sports fans do definitely remember Gehrig more b/c of the irony of the disease that brought down the ?Ironman?. I just don?t like the fact that some people may only know that about him and think he?s famous b/c of his tragic death instead of what he did during his life. To tie this back to classic movies, I wonder if James Dean would still be as famous today if he hadn?t died so young. I?ve seen two of the three movies he made and wasn?t overly impressed. He was a good actor but I just don?t think 3 movies is enough to warrant such iconic status. I do get that his image of the rebellious youth was very popular at the time and he tragically died young, but still, I just don?t get it. I remember how surprised I was to learn he only made 3 films. I was sure it had to be more than that since he was still such a big deal (I know he also did some tv work but that isn?t as accessible as his films so I doubt many people have seen it). Now it?s very likely that he would have had a long, successful career and be remembered b/c of that. Of course, that?s something we?ll never know. I think sometimes when people are cut down tragically young or early in their careers like he was, we have a tendency to over emphasize what they did. The same could be said for Janis Joplin. I like a few of her songs but would she be remembered if she hadn?t also died young? Keep in mind, she only had one hit, Me and Bobby McGee (which is my fave of hers), and it reached the top spot after her death.

 

Either I?ve brought up something interesting to contemplate, or just ticked off James Dean and Janis Joplin fans. I hope it?s the former :).

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coopsgirl, I'm typing this in a lightning storm lull; I also darted quickly into the shower during this time frame so as not to be fried to a crisp, so now I'm all fresh and clean. (well, for the time being)

 

You don't want to know about my Bela Lugosi dreams.

 

Or ones involving Moe of the Three Stooges.

 

Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

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Hello from the Lightning Capital of the United States.

 

No, my Chinese restaurant and outer space dreams are rather pleasant; the old clock women are the nightmares.

 

My wild Irish landlady (her name is Ashling; I think it means "blessing" In Gaelic) and I bonded so well that we were finishing each other's sentences. I expect an e-mail from her in a day or two. Can't wait to meet Fergal.

 

Mom is doing well (she's extremely pro-active about her health, but I worry anyway) and always has a positive outlook on life. Thanks much for your concern, Scott.

 

She has nerves of steel: she didn't think THE SPIRAL STAIRCASE was scary at all.

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Here?s the craziest Gary dream I?ve had so far. I was visiting my dad and stepmom and I was sitting on the couch flipping through the channels and I came across TCM and *Sgt. York* was on. Well, of course I got real excited and left it there and we watching it. I was eating peanuts and for some reason I was throwing the shells behind the couch (we have some restaurants here that put out little pails of peanuts on the tables and you can throw your shells on the floor so maybe that?s where that came from. I?m such a neat freak though I don?t like to do that so I?m not sure why I was doing it in the dream). So after several minutes of me throwing shells back there I hear somebody make a noise so I sit up on the couch and look behind it. To my great surprise, I see Gary sitting back there leaning up against the back of the couch. He was wearing a tight pair of Wrangler jeans and a nice button up dark green shirt and he looked the same age as in the movie. He also had peanut shells in his hair. Well I jumped up over the couch and kneeled down beside him and started picked the shells out while I was profusely apologizing. He just kinda glared at me and didn?t say a word. I finally picked them all out but it left his hair real messy so I was trying to fix it back. He had really soft hair :x.

 

Then all of the sudden he was gone and I was sitting back on the couch again and I noticed there were a lot of people in the kitchen which I could see from the livingroom. It was like we were having a bbq and everybody was in the kitchen getting food and stuff. Then I noticed Gary was in there, but this time he was real young and looked like he did in *Barbara Worth* from ?26. Of course I went in the kitchen and was trying to get his attention but his back was to me and there were a lot of people crammed in there so I just walked behind him where I would have to brush against him and he still didn?t notice me so I just went and sat back down on the couch.

 

Okay, now that I?ve shared my dementia you gotta give up your Lugosi/Moe dreams :).

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Young attractive member of prominent movie message board dreams of long dead handsome movie actor. A normal night's dream or a sign of deeper desires and heart filled wishes.

 

No one knows for sure nor can anyone know because we never know what is real and what is not real in....

 

twilight-zone.jpg

 

:)

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I would love to have had your Gary dream; it seemed beautiful to me, peanut shells and all. Hmmm, Coop in tight jeans with soft hair, sounds so good to me! I'll bet a nightmare for you would be anything involving Kevin Kostner. (supposedly a "Gary Cooper type". Yeah, right)

 

The only thing KK reminds me of is sleep. (see my jury duty posts, lol)

 

Okay, my Moe and Bela dreams....

 

Do I have to?

 

I must tell you that I had huge crushes on both of them when I was a teenager. When the Four Moptops appeared in the early sixties, I didn't give a fig for them because Moe had the hair FIRST. I only bought a Beatle wig because it reminded me of him.

 

As for Lugosi, I popped into my local candy/drug store back in the Bronx for a hamburger and while perusing the magazine rack, saw a Famous Monsters cover of him as Dracula. I was strangely fascinated.

 

In my dream, Bela is driving me around Los Angeles. (even though IRL he never learned how) We stop for hamburgers; he doesn't know what one is, accustomed to the Hungarian food he loves, like goulash and stuffed cabbage. I feed him the burgers and he likes them. He is wearing his shiny cape from A&C MEET FRANKENSTEIN and looks pretty old. His fourth wife Lillian (30 years his junior) joins us and she gets in the car; she's in the front seat and I get relegated to the back, but I don't mind, although I am a bit miffed at being treated like a child.

We then go to a fancy restaurant where it suddenly turns into a bedroom. I wake up.

 

Calling Dr, Freud.

 

Moe rescues me from falling in the snow. I'm very cold, so he carries me home and tucks me into bed, and stands guard as I'm getting warm under the covers.

 

I also had rescue dreams involving Paul Muni as a French-Canadian trapper from HUDSON'S BAY. (had a huge crush on him too) He as well would sit by my bedside as I recovered from some perilous situation.

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Boy, do I envy you guys and all the classic stars in your dreams! I never dream

of anybody pleasant except one time: Clark Gable. I only remember the fuzzy

outline of the dream but it basically was all about him wanting to marry me except

that he was burdened with a wife at the time. :P It all took place in the back of a

limousine. That part was exquisite. :D

 

But that is it. In fact, it may have been the only nice dream I have ever had. I

usually have nightmares or just plain weird dreams that I purposely try to

forget.

 

I'd even take Moe over what I usually get. :D

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pant....pant ..... pant....I've just finished reading the 14 PAGES you guys posted since I left on a mini-vacation six days ago.... pant.... pant.... pant, and I feel like I just climbed up about 400 flights of stairs to get here........aaahgh 'scuse me while I pass out from reading......gurgle......

 

Very interesting discussion of sports- By the way, I like tea AND Baseball.

 

You make me realize why I don't like basketball anymore. You are right, the grace has gone out of it.....I remember how exciting it used to be. Now I can only watch the last 2 minutes of a game. It's just no fun to watch. Sad. But you are right about individual athleticism being higher.

 

This will sound bad, but maybe Gehrig is lucky to have gone out when he did. He is revered because he left too soon rather than too late. He went out gracefully and on top. It doesn't happen as much any more, but I'm sure you can all think of players who just sort of petered out, or disappeared when they aged. Or worse, they played injured or in bad physical shape and blew a play that they will forever be remembered for.....In other words, I think I would rather be a James Dean than a Marlon Brando, ending quickly rather than having to listen to people discuss how fat you have gotten.

 

Baseball almost lost me when they created more divisions, ensuring a longer season of play. I may be a bit of an old codger here, but I didn't like the whole feel of the game after that. It's taken me awhile to adjust. I feel the same about the Olympics- Now that it's every two years, the specialness has gone out of it. But then again, I also thought it was special when The Grinch came on only at Christmas. With technology what it is now, you can watch The Grinch every day of the bleeping year, if you want to.....but it isn't as special anymore....That doesn't mean I don't like being able to see old movies any time I want to!

 

I want a boyfriend named Fergal....

 

I have dreams about John Barrymore and Leslie Howard.

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I think I can analyze your dream, but you have to pay me $500.00 first, lol. (you can do the same with my dreams)

 

When I say your dream is "beautiful", I meant that Gary was so handsome; obviously, his behavior disturbed you very much however.

 

I may even know what the peanuts mean.

 

I'll get back to you later in the evening.

 

If the storms don't kick up again.

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Were you Virginia Grey in your Gable dream?

 

Can you share one of your nightmares if you wouldn't mind?

 

My brother had a pip many years ago and he never forgot it. (and it sounds like a TZ episode) He was in the Bronx at our old neighborhood playground, and there were many parking meters surrounding the park.

They all started to HUM WEIRDLY.

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