The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread

[FrankGrimes]

What's the word, Madhat? -- *Another good mix of films.*

 

The mix continues to be rather wild, I'll say that.

 

*Autumn Leaves I thought this was good. I like the character Joan plays. She's lonely and she takes a chance, a risk. She knows it too. I like sympathetic Joan. The film can be a little disturbing. I will come close to agreeing with Miss G, in that this is one of Joan's best performances.*

 

I also liked Joan's character in this one. Her Millicent makes a huge decision, going against her own better judgment, only to end up in something far deeper than she could have ever imagined. Ahhh, love. Is it ever simple?

 

*There really isn't anything special here but it's not a bad film. The one thing here is that Young may be a little "badder" than usual.*

 

I'll say! She's really naughty. She's "paying off" the doctor!

 

*Both actors made better films during this period. Young in Employee's Entrance, Man's Castle, Life Begins, Taxi, and Heroes For Sale to name five. I'd just as well see the "non Grant" Grant being seduced by Mae West.*

 

I'll have to check out a couple of those. I've only seen *Man's Castle*, which I liked.

 

*A Christmas Carol (1938) Hey I just watched this one. It's become a Christmas staple for me. Charming, sentimental, quickly paced and to the point. It has enough syrup to make it stick. I get the "warm and cozy" vibe from it and it's perfect to put you in the holiday spirit without making you ponder it too much.*

 

"Charming, sentimental, and quick." Yeah, that's pretty much it, right there.

 

*Dark Victory I watched this not too long ago and I just didn't like it as much as I remember liking it originally. Not bad, Davis is always interesting to watch but I'll take Now, Voyager or The Letter over this one any day. Davis is just so noble and brave, I don't know. Again a good film but not as good as other Davis films, to me anyway.*

 

So you don't go for her transformation and the ending that much?

 

*Houseboat I thought this was pretty fun. I really liked Sophia in this and it's a favorite Loren performance for me. I liked the houseboat too. Grant is enjoyable and it's a charming little romantic comedy with a family angle.*

 

I'm in full agreement.

 

*Light in the Piazza I watched this a long time ago but I remember being slowly swept up by the story. I'm in sync with Miss G again on this one, except not as bowled over by Brazzi. *

 

Yes, I wasn't wooed by Brazzi, either.

 

*Love Crazy This is my favorite Powell/Loy pairing. It's just a lot of fun and has a great supporting cast, with Jack Carson very amusing as "Willoughby...Ward Willoughby". I love the battle between Loy and Powell here, and the look on her face as she's exasperated by his antics is classic.*

 

I give you credit for liking this film as much as you do. It's clearly "screwball." It's a mess. Myrna's reactions are adorable, you're right.

 

*Road to Utopia I mentioned earlier that this is probably my favorite of the Road pictures. Lot's of funny bits and everything just seems to come together nicely. One of my favorite Hope pictures in general and I like a lot of his films.*

 

What are your favorite Bob Hope films? How about five of them? *Road to Utopia* is my favorite of the "Roads." I still have the last three to watch, though.

 

*Swing Time Hmm, What will Frank think of this one? It's one of the best of their pairings. There are a number of memorable moments, great music, great dance, some comedy. Pretty much everything you could want from an Astaire/Rogers film.*

 

I'm in agreement, again. This is my second favorite "Fred & Ginger" pic. I like *Carefree* more for its comedy, but in terms of music, I like *Swing Time* the best. I'd have to think about the dancing, though. It wouldn't be either of those two films.

 

*Theodora Goes Wild I liked this one better the second time I saw it. Dunne was a great comedienne and I think she fed off the energy of her leading men. Douglas is no slouch, and I agree with Movieman that he is underrated a bit in doing all these romantic and screwball comedies. It doesn't quite reach the magic she attained in her comedies opposite Grant but it's still very enjoyable.*

 

I just struggled with the second half of this film. It just took me out. I thought the first half was pretty good.

 

*Torrid Zone Another favorite of mine. A good hard boiled Warner product. O'Brien is a bigger blowhard than usual in some parts but there is a lot of witty back and forth and a fast paced story. Cagney is great to watch and Sheridan gets some of the best lines of her career. I only wish she had done a few more of these.*

 

I thought Ann was hilarious. I've never seen her better. She was the whole show for me.

 

*Union Depot A good pre-code drama with lots of interesting things going on. A great cast. I always liked Fairbanks Jr. in these early roles and Blondell is always worth seeing.*

 

Once again, these early-30s flicks are strange creatures. The pacing for the film, at the beginning, is amazing. It's moving at a brisk clip. I also liked Fairbanks, Jr. and Blondell.

 

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

>

 

I admit when I found out Jannsen was in the picture I suddenly became interested. I think he's such a wonderful actor. A real character actor.

 

> It's a slow watch but at least the love is slowly burning, too. I feel it's Yul's film more so than Ingrid's.

>

 

The love story is wonderful the way it develops and changes the General. I laugh when Ingrid calls him "Vodka! Pure vodka!" Just when she finds herself, she realizes it's someone else she wants: the General. I thought that made for an interesting love story. I would not have been nearly as interested if the focus of the story had just been "is she really the Princess"?

 

> I'm surprised by your liking it that much. What's the draw for you?

>

 

Which movie were we talking about here?

 

> There is definitely a commentary on America and the American male, the really pushing for excellence and doing so without much care. The jealousies that guys sit on, too. And the medication is what brings all of this out of Ed (James Mason). It's in him, though. That "winning at all costs" mentality.

>

 

I must admit to not having any sympathy for that mentality. So do you think the movie is about both drugs and the commentary on society or is the drug just a device, almost like a "truth serum" that brings out in exaggerated form what lies beneath?

 

> I just thought the film was aimless. It seemed to be about big personalities, more than anything.

>

 

I guess that's enough for me sometimes! It's definitely an embarrassment in terms of quality material for such a cast (more like TV plot), but I enjoyed it the way that you enjoyed *The War Wagon*. Popcorn.

 

> I couldn't believe how Malcolm (Cary Grant) suddenly dumps his wife for Letty (Loretta Young). It was very strange. I'm finding many of these early-30s films are very strange.

>

 

Yes, that was strange, though the early 30s was all about turning marriage and sexual mores upside down (in a more innocent way than now).

 

> Your very favorite Bette film? Wow!

>

 

It's a tie pretty much between *Dark Victory* and *Now, Voyager*.

 

> Here's my Bette list:

>

> 1. Hush... Hush, Sweet Charlotte

> 2. The Man Who Came to Dinner

> 3. Now, Voyager

> 4. The Petrified Forest

> 5. The Letter

> 6. What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?

> 7. Dark Victory

> 8. All About Eve

> 9. The Bride Came C.O.D.

> 10. All This, and Heaven Too

> 11. The Little Foxes

>

 

You should watch some more early Davis, just for fun. She's super rotten in some of them, sweet in others. Definitely more variety in her early work. She's cute in *Cabin in the Cotton*, from what I remember. A terrible southern accent.

 

> Von Stroheim really does have a built-in decency. He's a commanding performer. Everything seems so serious with him, though.

>

 

I find a sadness in him, that is best put to use in *Grande Illusion*. What a sad movie. A great, great performance by him. You really should watch it. I don't like war movies, but this one feels anti-war, or at least, pro-humanity. And when I think of Von Stroheim, I think of that character. Unfortunately, I have not seen his "masterpieces" that he directed. Their length have put me off, though I'm sure they are visually stunning.

 

> Gloria was mostly annoying in the film, but less so than in *The Bad and the Beautiful*. That's a film that gets on my nerves. The ending to *The Good Die Young* is what makes the film for me. I was not prepared for any of that.

>

 

I guess because I know how low Harvey can go, his character was just another in a rogue's gallery for me. So the movie was not surprising at all and rather dull.

 

> Cinzia (Sophia Loren) loved to knock Tom (Cary Grant) down a hundred pegs! It's no wonder you thought she was funny!

>

 

She's marvelous at it. My favorite line (I've used it myself!): "I spit on charming!"

 

And Harry Giardino is funny, too, with his reactions. This is the only comedy role I've seen him do, he's very funny!

 

>

> Olivia is at her very best. She's really in a spot. Yvette is darling. It is rather funny how Society defines "normalcy" and everything else.

>

 

Oh, isn't it? I would feel very proud to have a daughter like Yvette in many ways. She may be "lacking" in the eyes of many, but to me she has the true way of seeing life. It's beautiful.

 

What did you think of Barry? Did he seem overly harsh? I thought he was, yet there was a point where I sympathized with his possibly feeling sidelined. A child like that can take up so much of a mother's time and attention, that a husband (or even other children) could feel neglected.

 

> This is one of the few times I felt William Powell was doing too much. I do like Myrna being stuck up and bothered by him. That always entertains me. Does anyone play such a character any better?

>

 

I suppose, but I prefer her much looser and saucier. I love Powell in anything, but I admit the whole movie just seemed as you say: trying too hard.

 

> I can't believe you'd watch a baseball bio many times.

>

 

Because TCM has played it so much! I admit I'm burned out on it now. Didn't you think Coop was really good?

 

> It's a good ending!

>

 

No! I insist he needed to stay with them, if only to protect them. They still had a long way to go.

 

> Those two films cerainly come to mind with *The Tarnished Angels*. Dorothy Malone is very good in the film. She's wanting to be appreciated but she also loves her husband. Jack Carson is wonderful in the film. It's a role I've never seen him play. He's usually obnoxious. The setting gives the film a very odd feeling.

>

 

I think Molo finally saw it so hopefully he liked Jack, too. I agree it's one of his best, if not his very best. I liked the little business with the book, at the end. I am not a huge fan of Hudson, but he was very attractive in this movie.

[FrankGrimes]

Hey there, Jacqueline -- *Alright, Tanglefoot, here's how I liked the movies you recently watched:*

 

Somebody has a sense of humor.

 

*The Maggie - I just loved this movie! It's a discussion of tradition versus modern ways all wrapped up in a charming different package. It says such a lot about the world today, too, while retaining it's relaxed gait. I love every character. It has an exceptionally fine performance from Paul Douglas, my favorite actor from the fifties. You wouldn't know it until the end of the movie, but he's actually the protagonist. This has all my favorite classic movie requirements - a sense of wry humor, a great and varied supporting cast, a fascinating backdrop (the river life in this part of England is truly fascinating) and a message that is set before you, gently, and with great humor. The direction by Alexander MacKendrick (Sweet Smell of Success) is masterful, and it was his pet project. Brilliant!*

 

 

That was beautifully expressed. Your suggestion ended up being a lovely one.

 

 

*Swing Time - There is really nothing better than this (except for Top Hat) It's my second favorite A and R movie. It's probably more refined than the other movie, and this one has a wistful dark part at the middle that makes it very special as an Astaire Rogers vehicle. Their breakup, told in the song Never Gonna Dance is just heartbreaking. Probably the best dance they ever did. Love the music. HATE the pants bit, but that's all.*

 

 

I loved the romance in this one. Like I mentioned earlier, Ginger is the one who is really longing and wishing to chase. The songs really do match the feelings of the film. Well, all but the "Bojangles." Such a distraction.

 

 

*Little Women (1933) - Lovely.*

 

 

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

 

*A Christmas card.*

 

 

Hey, I like that! That's a lovely little description.

 

 

*I love this version of Little Women best, though the others are all good in their own ways too. Vukor really makes all the right choices here. First of all, there's the house. It really exists, it's Louisa May Alcott's home and I have visited there every so often since I moved to New England. The first time I walked into Orchard House, I gasped.... here was the exact same room in which the girls in the movie performed their play..."Roderigo... Roderigo.... ahhhh!" - the curtains are there, and the settee... it's stunning how accurate the 1933 movie is. It's no accident, and because Cukor chose a small set, it makes the movie that much warmer, more homey. And it forces him to block the movement in a certain way which reinforces the intimacy.*

 

 

What a cool little factoid. I had no idea the house was Louisa May's. That's great! And you're right, the film is very "homey."

 

 

*In other words, It's beautiful looking. Second, Cukor took a large page out of D.W. Griffith's playbook. I became very aware this time of Griffith's influence. The movement, the framing, it's all Griffith. The shots of the home, the use of doors and entryways as a framing device, the minimal use of closeups, it's all there, and done even better than Griffith, if that's possible. And Cukor leads us forward into the sound era as if there had never been a break in continuity from one era to the next. Entire scenes are framed with one character's back to the audience, and even the skirts are used to pleasing effect, making for the most beautiful tableaux. If you doubt the Griffith/Cukor connection, check out the scenes when Father comes home, and the last scene, when Prof. Baer is welcomed into the March household - compare to Birth of a Nation - the return of the Colonel to his home. You'll see it too,*

 

 

You are far and away ahead of me! I believe you. And I do see the film as being well-directed for the kind of film it is.

 

 

*Cukor just lets the girls do their thing, he lets them each have their personalities. Underlying each character is a deeper one, some don't have as much to do, but they still retain their importance to the storyline. Frances Dee as Meg has a lovely scene where she confronts Aunt March (the formidable Edna Mae Oliver) and then covers her mouth after the volcanic tirade has come out. Jean Parker, who is closer to the age that the real Beth was when she died does an admirable job, especially thanks to Cukor, who films her death scene in such a wistful manner that you can't help being moved. Amy is always a delight in this story, and one really sees how Laurie would grow to love her in this film, Joan Bennett really rocks the later scenes in Europe. And of course there is Kate, goofy and tomboyish, but so full of life and wit, too big really for her small home. She's a whirlwind who excels at gymnastics and fence jumping, but I love the quieter scenes, like the ones with Professor Baer. She really IS Jo, I can't think of another actress who fit the part as well. She really would give up everything for her work. Paul Lukas is one of my favorites, his Professor is so tender, he wants so badly for Jo to be Jo, rather than the Shakespeare she aspires to be, that we can forgive his anger at her stories, and his bumbling later on. His longing is felt but not overplayed at all, we just see a glimpse here and there. He is smitten from the first, and I think we are too, with this whole family.*

 

 

That was superb, Jackie. You really have a grasp on the story and characters. Jo really is a "whirlwind." That's the perfect word for her. Paul Lukas is wonderful in the film. He's a good actor.

 

 

*Union Depot - I love Doug Jr. and this is one of his best, long before he became British, lol (like Vincent Price is British, uh huh.) This one has the huge benefit of Joan Blondell as the leading lady, and some absolutely DAZZLING direction on the part of Alfred E. Green. The supporting cast is amazing - most of the time, supporting characters are why I watch classic films. This one has Frank McHugh, Alan Hale, Guy Kibbee and David Landau as a wonderfully starchy but sweet cop. Irving Bacon even shows up! Tricky and suspensful, with some twists and turns, and a lot of threads all running at the same time. Don't miss it.*

 

 

A very nice synopsis of the film. It's a highly unique film and one I'd point to for showing the early-30s. I like how both the man and woman are hiding from each other. Eventually, she comes forward. And he gives it to her. How awful, since he's hiding even more than she is! All of this makes it a rather "Hitchcockian" romance.

 

 

*Dark Victory - Oh I love this one, for years it was my favorite of Bette's soapers.*

 

 

Wow! So we've got another vote for "favorite."

 

 

*Bette is most beautiful in this film, and also fiery as Judith Traherne, she nails both the brat and the calm end of the storm feeling.*

 

 

She is rather lovely in the film. Although, I prefer her more in *The Bride Came C.O.D.* and *The Petrified Forest*. I also like her look in *All This, and Heaven Too*.

 

 

*I like the supporting cast, hey Bogie as black Irish Michael is worth the price of admission alone! A very beautiful film.*

 

 

It is a loving film. But poor Bogie!

 

 

*Anastasia - I really like it, everything, the staginess of it, the backstory about Berrgman, and as Bronxie said, it really leaves you the audience hanging about Anna Anderson. Sometimes I think it's a shame we have DNA testing, I like the mystery surrounding here and not knowing whether she was or she wasn't the Grand Duchess. The romance? sublime, and Martita Hunt, pure gossipy deliciousness.*

 

 

And you didn't mention Yul! I think he's the film. My eyes always went to him.

 

 

*Torrid Zone - Oh this one is SO much fun, ridiculous at times but you couldn't care less. Annie at her best and that's all that you need to know to enjoy this movie.*

 

 

I completely agree with your last statement. She was a pistol!

 

 

*The Fan - I enjoyed this one a great deal, despite some purists thinking that the bookends of the aged characters didn't really work.*

 

 

That doesn't work? Huh? Why? I love that Mrs. Erlynne (Madeleine Carroll) pesters Lord Darlington (George Sanders). It's great. I particularly like when she walks in on him in the back.

 

 

*I felt it was very true to Wilde, even though the script is slightly different.*

 

 

Now that's something I don't know about. I really don't know Wilde's works.

 

 

*Madeleine Carroll is just awesome, in a role one wouldn't have ever thought her capable of. She's marvelous.*

 

 

I'm a big fan of Maddy and I was amazed by her performance. She was really alive. It was like she was Claire Trevor, all of a sudden.

 

 

*Georgie plays an old man, and very well I might add. The way he delivers Wilde's lines - heaven.*

 

 

He's always razor sharp.

 

 

*Theodora Goes Wild - I ADORE this movie, at least the first half. The scenes in CT. are HILARIOUS to me, especially once Melvyn shows up on her doorstep, the mongrel. I love the aunts, and the book club, and the newspaper man. The premise of the writer of salacious stories who is really a maiden spinster just cracks me up, even though it slows almost killing the story in the second half. Luckily, it picks up again. It's just a great and for me relatively new screwball.*

 

 

I thought the first half of the film was quite good and funny. Even though I usually prefer Irene Dunne on the prowl versus being repressed. Melvyn Douglas does well as a scoundrel on the hunt. That's how I like him. When he starts to play "bug-eyed," he loses me.

 

 

*The Naked City - I really really like this one! It so surprised me, because I usually don't like Police procedurals. Maybe it's because Barry Fitzgerald is so good.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow! I would not have guessed you'd like it that much. Barry Fitzgerald is a big reason for the film being as good as it is. I love the entire framework of the film. The look of the film is remarkable.

 

 

*Love Crazy - I used to think that the non Nick and Nora's were not as good, but I've changed my mind recently, I like this one just a little bit less than Double Wedding. I like their little romantic rituals, her mother in law, and the way the courtroom scene ends up. Powell is always good, it just doesn't matter what he's in, I love him, and Loy is the only woman who can keep up with him. They are each at the top in my favorite actor/actress category. She's the gin to his fizz.*

 

 

"Gin to his fizz." Very good! I liked the rug in front of the door that is insisted by the mother-in-law. I thought that was a funny bit. The entire asylum stuff drove me crazy. And the "drag" finish wasn't the best for me, either. I greatly prefer *Double Wedding*.

 

 

*A Christmas Carol (1938) - This is the one I grew up with, so it rates well for me, even with the schmaltz, and knowing that there are other better versions. Hey if you can't have schmaltz at Christmas, when can you? And I like the fact that Gene Lockhart's whole family is in it. Was Ann Rutherford ever more beautiful?*

 

 

I agree with you about the "schmaltz" at Christmas. I'm all for the syrup that Molo speaks of. I liked the "feel" of the film. I liked the little outdoor scenes. I liked the overzealous reactions to the food by the children. A good "feel good" movie.

 

 

*Bigger Than Life - Very high on my list, I thought this film was very well done. James Mason is phenomenal. I was NOT expecting to like it, it's truly terrifying.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm actually amazed by your liking it. Can you elaborate on it?

 

 

*Will Penny - Another surprise, high on my list, thanks to Ben Johnson and Goddess for convincing me to watch this film. I could throw the TV through a wondow though at the ending.*

 

 

The ending is great! You just want to see us men die a million deaths as we see the love of our life meet up with her husband! Talk about suicide! Your Ben has been absolutely phenomenal in the last few films I've seen him in. Have you watched *Terror Train*, yet?

 

 

*Mildred Pierce - I have never really warmed up to this one, (I know! I know!)*

 

 

Wow! You are full of surprises!

 

 

*but I admit that Joan gives a heck of a performance here. Jack Carson and Eve Arden are my main reasons for watching, poor Jack. I just love him here, it always makes my stomach sink seeing him go up to the house. Plus the set design is wonderful. It's a great looking movie.*

 

 

So what holds this back for you? Mildred and Veda?

 

 

*Fives Graves to Cairo - It took me a long long time to be able to watch this one all the way through, but I'm glad I did. It's a slow starter but becomes very very tense, .this is my favorite of Anne Baxter's performances. I love what Goddess said about Von Stroheim, he makes you think black is white in this film, he's very convincing, he makes the film for me.*

 

 

I will get to your more-detailed writings on the film in the next day or two. What you wrote was impressive. You put a lot of your energy into it, which I loved.

 

 

*Road to Utopia - Hope and Crosby are not my always my favorites but if they all moved like this one, I'd love them.*

 

 

I can see how the two of them wouldn't be favorites with you and others. I really like Bob, and I do like how the two play off of each other. I like how the two of them are usually playing lazy shysters. Perfect. The stories usually aren't the best, though.

 

 

*The Pride of the Yankees - I always liked Pride of the Yankees, but for me it's one that I've seen so many times I now take it for granted. Plus it's one of my sister's favorites. She can be extremely sentimental, but also very stubborn about her opinions, so I kind of rebelled against the movie for a while. Still, when it's on, I always end up watching it.*

 

 

It's funny how I'm so cold on this film and I'm a big sports fan. Maybe that's part of the issue with me.

 

 

*O. Henry's Full House - The Last Leaf.... sob*

 

 

 

 

*Houseboat - much much better than I would ever have thought it would be, in fact I resisted watching it for years because of the plot synopsis.*

 

 

The kids are why I'd resist it.

 

 

*Unconquered -DeMille. It has it's moments, and Paulette is always good, but oy, C.B. wears me out.*

 

 

We're in agreement. I do like Paulette, but I was wanting her to be a crazed Indian girl in this one.

 

 

*Autumn Leaves - I think Joanie is very good, but the whole thing disturbs me, lol.*

 

 

Very funny! Again, we're probably on the same page.

 

 

*I have never seen all of The Green Berets, I just remember it was the first I ever heard of John Wayne, because this was a movie that young people when I was growing up hated. I was too little to understand it, but it left an impression on me, all those younger generation types, hating on John Wayne. I remember trying to watch it a few years back, but I couldn't get into it, it made me groan at that blowhard image that I disliked... however, I'd love to see it now that I am a fan, I wonder if I would still hate it, or if I could find something in it to latch onto.*

 

 

I think you would be okay with it, actually. You like Jim Hutton, so there's that selling point for you. The message of the film won't sit well with you but the action is pretty good. And there is some heart to be found, too. Would I recommend you watch it? No. Ultimately, you're not missing much.

 

 

*I have seen bits of Light in the Piazza, but I always seem to be walking out the door when it comes on. I think George Hamilton is a much better Italian than Warren beatty, lol. I like Mimieux and de Havilland very much, they seem particularly right for their roles.*

 

 

I'm guessing you would be all right with the film. It's an interesting "mother" film, so that could hit on some emotions for you.

[CineMaven]

*Veda and Mildred, what a pair. Maybe Bert is partly to blame, too. He needed to be more of a participant in that household, instead he sort of slinked away from responsibility like the plague.*

 

He certainly was the absent father probably long before he actually left the house. But that meant he'd probably have to get a handle on Mildred first b'4 he could deal with Veda. He didn't like the way Veda high-hatted him, but Mildred wouldn't let Bert slug her. I daresay the spectre Mildred let come between her and Bert, was Veda.

 

*I always wonder what life might have been if Mildred had married Jack.*

 

Yeah, you know the answer to THAT already. As soon as Wally tasted Mildred's...pies, he'd have high-tailed it outta town with the first traveling saleslady who was selling vacuum cleaners.

[CineMaven]

Good Day, Grimesy Me Boy - ...But when people play on your emotions, it's really tough. Some of us carry some heavy guilt.

 

You're so right. Guilt is a powerful controller.

 

I liked how Reagan played drunk throughout the film and his little character came to stand for an entire lifestyle. I thought he played it so well. All we had to do was see him and we "got it."

 

You're so right here. Using Ronnie like this is a great shorthand, but not too too stereotypical. I felt he had a heart for Judith.

 

...You make a good point about Bette's tonal change being more drastic in Dark Victory. She really is playing both ends in that one. Although, I must say, it's rather amazing to see Bette playing "mousey." Bette Davis?! Talk about sitting on yourself.

 

She's swell. Have you ever see Bette in "A Stolen Life" with Glenn Ford. She's very very nice in this one. Or in "All This & Heaven Too"?

 

I like both. Many of my favorites play aggressive women, such as Carole Lombard, Joan Bennett, Rita Hayworth, Ava Gardner, Gloria Grahame, Barbara Stanwyck, Katharine Hepburn, etc.. I also like my share of passive women, such as Deborah Kerr, Grace Kelly, Gail Russell, Cathy O'Donnell, Gene Tierney, Ingrid Bergman, etc.. I think it just boils down to the character and the actress with that character.

 

Oh wow!! I love your passive-aggressive list of actresses. You know, you've named all the actresses I like. I think Tierney and Kerr have some cross-over tendencies; I've seen them cross over to the aggressive side in "Leave Her to Heaven"[/b] and "Black Narcissus." ( Whew! Deborah was a tough cookie in "...Narcissus." Pretty judgmental in her righteousness. ) Hmmmm...aggressive. Do you mean assertive? Are aggressive and assertive inter-changeable?

 

Bette Davis' aggressiveness is usually not attached to romance, but power. That can be a turn-off for me. This is why I tend to like the "softer," romantic Bette...

 

Speaking of Barbara Stanwyck, ( no, no one was talking of her, but you mentioned power and I thought of Stanwyck ) did you ever see "Crimes of Passion"? Here she plays a woman who is not allowed to be ambitious and the repercussions that has.

 

( "Strange Cargo" ) It's mostly a religious film, but I do like the characters and performances. Joan really gives it to Gable. And you know Gable is going to give it right back.

 

Ahhhhh, the battle of the sexes. In a jungle no less.

 

How I have liked "Joan's" films:

 

1. Johnny Guitar

2. Sudden Fear

3. Grand Hotel

4. Strange Cargo

5. What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?

6. Daisy Kenyon

7. Mildred Pierce

8. The Unknown

9. Autumn Leaves

10. Possessed

 

Whoa!! ( Applause! Applause! ) Nice list, man. And with this list you've covered Joanie from the 30's to the 60's. Might I suggest "Rain" and of course, "The Women." But be forewarned...Joan is not soft in either of these two movies.

 

MILDRED PIERCE

 

A more successful child makes us feel like a great success. The child is the "bottom line." If the "company" turns a major profit, the Chief Executive Parent gets the accolades. Also, I think there is a repressed bitterness with some mothers who look to spoil their kids, especially daughters. They wish they were spoiled and they hold it against their parents and/or husband. So they look to "lash out" by spoiling their kid. What they often fail to see are the future consequences of their child and how they will value life and others.

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly. With some parents, their child's success ( doctor, lawyer, Indian Chief ) becomes their success. And yes, I think spoiling a child can be a misguided way of displacing anger for a spouse or a parent. Or the parent is selfish and doesn't know any better. There are consequences in any event.

 

A child in my family has an iPhone. She was given this as a "divorce" gift from her mother. Uh-huh. But now the child badmouths the phone since it's now "outdated." Where's the appreciation for what we have? It's not that, anymore. It's all about appreciating what we don't have. Now think of what a future relationship with a guy could be like with such an attitude. Is this just a child wanting everything or have the seeds been sown for something deeper-rooted?

 

I see. The child with the iPhone will hopefully be made to work for or earn an upgraded phone. With today's technology, there's no way of "Keeping Up With the Joneses" or the Steve Jobses. But if it?s a "divorce" gift, it goes back full circle to what you wrote in the beginning...guilt.

 

Mildred may not have put that there, but she didn't remove it, either. She let it grow and grow and grow. She even watered it! That's not good parenting. Veda's actions are that of a spoiled little girl, not even a teenager. And the trouble is, it's tough to parent a girl her age after allowing the behavior to blossom. The parenting needed to occur much earlier. But since Mildred was so down on herself, she couldn't parent.

 

I concur Dr. Spock. No sense closing the barn door after the horse has run away. Mildred does not have a green thumb when it came to parenting.

 

I didn't like who did the shooting and for the reasons they did it. It felt like a letdown. 'All this for that?' It was 'Who Shot Mr. Burns?' "

 

Oh. It made sense to me. The Monster Child finally finally didn?t get what she wanted.

 

Mildred Pierce, both the character and the movie don't have an exactly glowing view of men.

 

MOLO responds - Boy, ain't that the truth.

 

Hey hey hey...do you boys think "Mildred Pierce" is an anti-men film?

 

When you're given everything, can you value anything?

 

Wow. You can build mountains on what you've just said.

 

Very much so. But what I've learned is that people only see what they want to see. It's always someone else, never them. And our society is at its very worst with this thinking.

 

Amen to that Grimesy.

[CineMaven]

HELLO MOLO. HOW ART THEE? ...The ending didn't bother me either. I don't think Mildred and Bert are going to reconcile. Veda got what was coming to her. Mildred will have to deal with that for a long time.

 

I actually thought Bert & Mildred would reconcile. No one walks off into the sunset together ( or the sunrise ) in the 40?s without getting together. They?ve lost both their daughters. Mildred has lost her business. They can start from painful scratch now with some hard lessons learned. What a depressing story for a film made during the war years. I LOVE Warner Bros.

 

Joan waited two years for the right part to come along. She was brilliant at assessing her own career. She knew this film was the one that would put her back on top. Not only is Mildred a great part, the film was the right choice. The story is a winner and was adapted well for the big screen.

 

I wonder what parts Crawford turned down during her two year wait? I think Joan recognized a Crawford vehicle when she read it.

 

She had a lot of great support here too. Jack Carson is just suburb.This role confirms every thought I've always had about just how great an actor he was. Wally Fay has a lot of angles and Jack brought them all out. He hits all the right notes here.

 

Oh boy, he was wonderful. He?s the light and the dark. His Wally Fay was a realist with a healthy dose of cynicism and id. I love him in this. I could see him getting an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor. But Hollywood didn?t take his talent seriously. Molo, have you seen him in ?The Tattered Dresss?? You ought to if you haven?t. He was also good with Rosalind Russell in ?Roughly Speaking? which I see will be on later this week. They're two peas in a pod; fast talkin' rabble rousers.

 

The movie gets a lot of it's spunk from Arden's Ida. She provides a running commentary, dripping with sarcasm. Nobody does that quite like Eve Arden.

 

Ahhh Eve. Oh how I wish TCM would feature -- ?ALL ABOUT EVE: A NITE WITH EVE ARDEN.? Show some films where she really shines in a big supporting part: ?Mildred Pierce? ?My Dream Is Yours.? She?s a great pal for a gal to have. She?ll give it to you straight, with a dose of humor and Scotch on the rocks.

 

That leaves us with Bruce Bennett as Bert. He's the character with the least to do really. Maybe that is why he doesn't stand out in my mind like the others.

 

Uh-huh. Bert is a tangential issue in this whole sordid proceeding. The triangle is Mildred - Monty and Veda. We don?t pay much attention to him. See....WE are just like Mildred. Holy cow...we ARE Mildred!!!

 

Of course we have to give credit to Michael Curtiz for putting it all together too. I haven't read much about the actual making of the film but what a fascinating set that must have been.

 

My hat?s off to Mr. Curtiz for masterfully pulling all the elements together in a way that makes most people remember this film fondly after sixty-eight years. He did as well with ?Charge of the Light Brigade? ?Four Daughters? ?Angels With Dirty Faces? ?Elizabeth & Essex? ?Sante Fe Trail? ?Casablanca? ?Yankee Doodle Dandy? [/b] and a whole slew of films. He?s a good solid filmmaker.

 

Frank Grimes writes - I took it that Mildred (Joan Crawford) helped to create Veda (Ann Blyth) and Veda became a monster she didn't anticipate. Very "Dr. Frankenstein.?...

 

Frank I really like the "Dr. Frankenstein" analogy...?

 

I like it too. But I?m torn. Remember, Frankenstein?s monster did get the wrong brain; an Abby Normal one.

 

So Mildred knows, or at least think she knows, that to make it in this world you have to look out for yourself. You have to be selfish. So it's natural to pass that line of thinking on to Veda. Now Mildred has almost given up on any personal happiness. Everything she does focuses on Veda. It drives her whole life. Mildred lost herself at some point,...

 

You said a keyboardfull. Mildred certainly was mis-guided. I?ve come to like movies about a person who makes bad decisions. We watch them fall down ev?ry cover-less manhole in their path. I used to yell at them, now I marvel at them. And you put it wonderfully succinctly: The Severely and Sincerely Wrongheaded.? Ha!!

 

and I think it's clear she holds a grudge, but now she lives for Veda.

 

A grudge? A grudge against who? A grudge against whom? I think she responded pretty naturally to Monty. When she was making out with Monty at his beach house, I think she said, ?VEDA WHO??

 

 

I loved your "two minds of Veda" comments. We are really picking up these characters in the middle of the story. Veda is already who she is. Mildred too, and Bert and Mildred have already soured before we get started. We get some good hints, a bit of insight, in the way they all interact and by the comments they make. There is still a lot we have to fill in. That's the fun part in a lot of ways.

 

Thank you.

 

I sometimes like taking movies at face value; you know, just work with the facts they give us. Of course, we can fill in the blanks, but we?re never really given all the backstory in ?Mildred Pierce.?

 

So Mildred, confronted by Veda's crime in the beach house, decides to make Wally the fall guy. I always thought that was pretty cold of her. It's a big problem for me as far as Mildred's overall character is concerned. Sure she has to do something, anything to protect Veda. We all know that just has to be the top priority as far as Mildred is concerned, but I don't think Wally deserved that from her. He wasn't really her enemy. He was a man though. I guess that was enough for Mildred. :-)

 

They say ?payback is a b*tch.? Wally looked like he was in cahoots with Veda:

 

* Helping her extort money from poor - dumb - love struck Ted who thought he was going to be a father

 

* Giving Veda a job at his dive.

 

* Stealing her business out from under her.

 

Seems like Wally was the logical fall - guy. But like Jack Favell has said, I do feel bad for Wally when he goes up to the house.

 

Molo, I really liked your parting thoughts on ?Mildred Pierce.? Very nice summation, Counselor. And I really liked all the good qualities you listed for Mildred. If only she used her determination for good. Sheesh, the girl had a helluva franchise going.

[rohanaka]

 

I ended up watching 355

 

 

GOOD gravy, man. That's almost a movie a day. ha. I like how you set yourself a goal and went for it. Wowsa.

 

 

Here's my top 25 for the year (And the Oscar goes to

 

 

OH me.. some surprises for sure.. that is quite a mixed bag. I was especially surprised to see #5.. #7.. and maybe 10 up there so high.. though you DID say you liked them.. so I am not sure why they suprise me..ha.

 

 

But oh me.. what's THIS I see.. the big green guy sliding in at 25????????????????????????? Ok.. I quit. ha. I have NO idea how to peg you now and forever more. ha. You are quite the man of mystery. ha. I never would have supspected you would have rated himTHAT high on a list of 355 other movies. wowsa.

 

 

Ok so.. now that you have listed your top 25.. I have to ask.. (because inquiring minds wanna know.. ha) what makes you rate the TOP FIVE the way you did. I mean.. lets face it... you watched a LOT of movies this past year. Some were terrific choices.. and some likely less terrific ones... ha. So what is it about these five movies that edges them out over the other 350 for you?? I guess I am saying.. what made THESE five films stand out so much more than the others. (and where would you put these same films on your list of overall favorites ever??) ha.

 

 

And ps.. ha.. YES.. I know I am asking a lot.. who do I think I am.. the NON-list maker asking such a question as that. ha But I am just so impressed at how you were able to even WATCH that many films.. let alone pick out 25 faves in order.. and I KNOW you have a list of all time faves.. so I just was curious how they all mix together for you. ha. (did I mention inquiring minds wanna know???)

 

 

Dark Victory What do you like about it

 

 

Oh the repentance angle, for sure. I like the way she did not wallow and stay down when she learned of her fate. She went out well.. a much better person than she likely would have if she had lived to a ripe old age, for sure.

 

 

You had it as one of your all-time favorites

 

 

Ha.. I did. And you are a good friend to let yourself be subjected to it.. ha. Because.. all issues of your known wrong headedness" aside. ha, despite how much I like it.. I KNOW it was likley not at all your "cup-o-tea. "

 

 

The story does have a Dickensian feel to it, just not as colorful. The professor is certainly the most Dickensian of them all

 

 

Actually.. I think I was only refering to Dickens in that we were saying how you thought the STORY was good but you weren't fond of the movie.. ha. I feel that way about some of his "movies" too. (though most of the ones we've discussed here, I do like)

 

 

Will Penny Why isn't it a huge favorite for you

 

 

Ha.. oh sure.. ask me a specific question like that afer I make a general off hand remark because I haven't seen the film a good long while. HA! I don't think I can give you TOO specific an answer w/ out watching it again, but I just don't have a "fond" feeling over my memories of it, overall. ha. (does that make sense?) I don't have a BAD feeling either.. but it just doesn't stand out for me in my memory as being a movie that I watched and thought.. "HEY.. I like that one.. I need to see it again sometime" I might feel different if I see it again.. but that is how I am remembering it. Not "bad" but just "ok" I guess.

 

 

[JackFavell]

>That's because this group of folks is all over the place! You had earlier asked me to rank all of the films I watched in 2012. That would be rather daunting, even for me. I ended up watching 355. Here's my top 25 for the year (And the Oscar goes to... ):

>

>1. *Deadline at Dawn*

>2. A Tree Grows in Brooklyn

>3. Laugh, Clown, Laugh

>4. I Know Where I'm Going!

>5. Gunga Din

>6. Picnic at Hanging Rock

>7. Remember the Night

>8. The Naked City

>9. Love on a Pillow

>10. Dear Heart

>11. He Walked by Night

>12. The River

>13. None But the Lonely Heart

>14. Black Narcissus

>15. The Breaking Point

>16. Witness for the Prosecution

>17. Ace in the Hole

>18. Warlock

>19. A Night in Casablanca

>20. The Passionate Friends

>21. A Streetcar Named Desire

>22. The Big Steal

>23. The Roaring Twenties

>24. Bitter Victory

>25. Godzilla

 

 

I WIN!!!!!

 

Hahahhaha! Just kidding folks. oops. was that really awful of me? I was just excited to see a movie I picked up at the top. It won't happen again. Cause I will probably never pick one he likes again!

 

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> > {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}*The Green Berets* is definitely not for you, even though your " Harry O" is in the pic.>

> I admit when I found out Jannsen was in the picture I suddenly became interested. I think he's such a wonderful actor. A real character actor.

 

WHAAAAT????

 

David Janssen is in it? Well, why didn't you say so!

 

I re-watched *Dark Victory* today. Oh my gosh, what a really amazing film! Now I remember why it was my favorite. I had forgotten how light it was, for such a heavy theme. It practically floated on air, and Bette was tremendously, tremendously great. How Edmund Goulding ever put this over I don't know, but every scene rings with truth ... it was surprising to me watching it again, how it all played out so effortlessly.

 

Bette was superb, so fragile, really. I loved her energy at the beginning of the film, I totally believed she was a horsewoman and a sporty type. Her fear was palpable from the first scene, but it played out like a mystery because you didn't really know why she was doing all that gadding about. You think she's just a spoiled rich girl, but there is more to it than that.

 

Then there was the key scene, the one where calm George Brent was testing her, looking in her eyes, checking her reflexes and her perceptions... he was really wonderful here, I don't mind saying he was as good in this film as he could be. Perfect for the role. Anyway, she's talking and her voice goes up into this higher, but gentle, questioning register, which she used throughout the film, like a child and it broke my heart. And OK, so I am shallow, I love her wardrobe and hair here, plus the sets are great as well. It's nice to look at, but there is so much more here. It's a life lesson all wrapped up in a beautiful package. Her search for meaning as opposed to mindlessly fleeing from one thing to the next was very spiritual to me, without any of the trappings that usually go along with 'spiritual' movies.

 

I have to say that after watching again after so many years, this one is still my favorite Bette Davis performance. And that is saying one heck of a lot. She was able to completely transcend the material, and along with Goulding turned it into one of the best movies ever made. You can't take your eyes off Bette. The light touch was perfect for this film, and it made what could have been ridiculous and heavy handed something of hope and of beauty.

 

And you know what? I thought Bogie was great! His chemistry with her for that one scene in the stable room was like lightning. So sue me! I liked him and the way he and Bette batted the ball back and forth, acting wise. There was a flash of brilliance in his scenes that made me sit up in my chair. Made me wish they'd done another movie where they actually had scenes alone together. It could have been like a battle between the gods.

 

So yeah, I cried a bucketful, and not of Cliff Robertsons.

 

 

> > I can't believe you'd watch a baseball bio many times. Because TCM has played it so much! I admit I'm burned out on it now. Didn't you think Coop was really good?

 

NO one could have played this role any better than Coop did, and make you forget he wasn't the real life Lou Gehrig.

 

> Will Penny Why isn't it a huge favorite for you

>

>Ha.. oh sure.. ask me a specific question like that afer I make a general off hand remark because I haven't seen the film a good long while. HA! I don't think I can give you TOO specific an answer w/ out watching it again, but I just don't have a "fond" feeling over my memories of it, overall. ha. (does that make sense?) I don't have a BAD feeling either.. but it just doesn't stand out for me in my memory as being a movie that I watched and thought.. "HEY.. I like that one.. I need to see it again sometime" I might feel different if I see it again.. but that is how I am remembering it. Not "bad" but just "ok" I guess.

>

> > It's a good ending! No! I insist he needed to stay with them, if only to protect them. They still had a long way to go.

 

I'm totally with Goddess! Why the heck get them through all of that hell if he was just going to abandon them at the end? It makes no sense.

 

But the movie itself, well I like it because it's unabashedly romantic.

[MissGoddess]

Bogie's scene in *Dark Victory* is one of my favorite Bogart scenes ever! I think he and Bette are very exciting together and I love his character.

[JackFavell]

I must be getting open minded because I thought it was a tremendously great scene, and I saw none of that leftover Bogart-can't play-Irish-thing that I thought I remembered. I thought he was pitch perfect.

 

Not only that but the two together really struck sparks, because they were each as unpredictable as the other, as actors and as characters. You didn't know what either of them was going to do. I loved watching her thought processes with him, seeing how far she could push him, doubting that she wanted him at all and yet maybe she could just drown herself in physical passion and then she just fell apart in his arms. He didn't behave at all like you would expect him to, there was sexual threat early in the scene but he was so stunned by what she said, he was so saddened, it fell to him to comfort her. They are alike, very animal, very close to nature so it was only right that she should go to him and then find something unexpected there. Just like her, there was more to him than met the eye. I loved his speech about being the kind of man they didn't make anymore, that he dreamed of great things, and wasn't ashamed to say he was a MAN. I could watch a whole movie of him in this character. Wish they had gone ahead and written one.

[MissGoddess]

Love what you've written and yes, it is a scene that is filled with electricity and unpredictability. I wasn't sure when I first saw it where it was going. I've never seen either Davis or Bogart like they are together there in that stable. I found it all believable and you bet I'd love to have seen a whole movie about his character...High Sierra comes close to being that movie.

[JackFavell]

I never thought about it, but yes, it could be Roy Earle. I was thinking Michael was of a different century, more of a man's man of the 1800's or even earlier, as he says, but now you say it, Roy is very much that kind of man as well, trapped in a world out of time, fforced to do business with men who are 'less than', who basically have no clue.

[JamesJazGuitar]

Funny that the stable scene is being discussed. I admit that I have jumped on the bandwagon and said the Bogie was miscast and this was a weak performance for him, but secretly I didn't really know what to think!

 

Maybe I just focused too much on the accent to see what was really going on there. That and the fact Davis is SO ON, that it doesn't matter much what anyone else is doing in the picture.

 

Would it have changed the story much if Bogie's character wasn't Irish? I don't think so.

[JackFavell]

I'm trying to remember when I first saw this movie, did I really think Bogie was terrible? I can't imagine it watching now. I totally loved him, this time, he added some fire and maleness to the proceedings, that's for sure and personally, I thought the accent was extremely good except for the novelty of it coming out in his voice.

 

I think more than likely I read something about this movie and didn't really make up my own mind about his performance, I just latched onto the oddness of an Irish accent coming out of Bogie's mouth.... I mean did folks back tin 39 think it was weird, or have we simply decided more recently that Bogie can only be Bogie in noir or quietly boozing himself to death in Casablanca? Is it that we have an image of him that is iconic and this character role doesn't fit that narrow perception? I find it no more odd than Bogie in naval uniform as Captain Queeg.

 

The lines in *Dark Victory* where he starts talking about how much he longs for something more, that he's trapped in a world that he doesn't fit into just explode out of him, like it's been pent up in him for so long, and there's the total ring of truth in it. It surprised me how good it was. The real Bogie, the one we know, the intense man flashed out here. He, like Judy, has this secret life he's been hiding, and unfortunately, he bares his soul because he thinks she might possibly care for him. It's scary and almost deluded, this opening of himself, but then when he finds out her secret it all goes back inside and then Michael is the warm fellow we've seen all along. I almost would say it's brilliant. It's got that edge that he used so well throughout his career, and the frustration that comes out of him is real... It works completely for me. It is just a bit unexpected, maybe that's why folks seem to have a hard time with it.

[JackFavell]

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

 

ha! I think that's my favorite version of Mildred.

 

my empathy is all with actors who take on accents. they are always going to be laughed at by someone (especially by those of the native country). yet we can always laugh when they try to speak Shakespeare's dialogue with an Irish (or whatever) brogue.

[rohanaka]

 

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

 

 

THANKS for the smile, Jackie!!

 

 

(and to think.. all the blabbing I did about where Mildred went wrong.. ha.. and Vickie's Veda said it best.... "I didn't spoil me rotten, YOU did" ) HA.

 

 

[JamesJazGuitar]

 

Well I did read something negative about Bogie in Dark Victory BEFORE seeing the film and I believe that tainted me. I got into classic movies because of Bogie films. It wasn't until a few years later I got into studio era actresses like Davis. So I made a point to watch Dark Victory because Bogie was in it.

 

But I see now that the performance has merit.

 

 

[CineMaven]

*I re-watched Dark Victory today. Oh my gosh, what a really amazing film! Now I remember why it was my favorite. I had forgotten how light it was, for such a heavy theme. It practically floated on air, and Bette was tremendously, tremendously great. How Edmund Goulding ever put this over I don't know, but every scene rings with truth ... it was surprising to me watching it again, how it all played out so effortlessly.*

 

Light. That's it. It was light. Sad but light...airy. Not a lot of sturm und drang. Or heaviness of set design.

 

* Bette was superb, so fragile, really. I loved her energy at the beginning of the film, I totally believed she was a horsewoman and a sporty type. Her fear was palpable from the first scene, but it played out like a mystery because you didn't really know why she was doing all that gadding about. You think she's just a spoiled rich girl, but there is more to it than that.*

 

 

Fragility...excellent description. And wow, I hadn't thought of it as a bit of a mystery and it was, in the beginning ( What's going on? ) To me the movie also played out like Suspense - different people knowing things others did not know. And we, the audience, are privy to it all.

 

 

I loved watching her. She played the role like Heifetz played his violin. She definitively delineated denial, grief and acceptance seamlessly. Even her body language was different as Judith. You know Bette; she can sling those hips with that gait of hers and punctuate.each.word. with that clipped upper upper class accent of hers. Here she's just an American girl. A rich one but American.

 

 

* Then there was the key scene, the one where calm George Brent was testing her, looking in her eyes, checking her reflexes and her perceptions... he was really wonderful here, I don't mind saying he was as good in this film as he could be. Perfect for the role. Anyway, she's talking and her voice goes up into this higher, but gentle, questioning register, which she used throughout the film, like a child and it broke my heart. *

 

 

I really like the examination scene too. I felt the thrust and parry between them as though I was watching a fencing or tennis match. Brent had a good steady hand here. He was like the calm eye in the center of the hurricane that swirled around the room. Brent's stolidness is used to advantage here. He needs to be the steady hand to calm down Bette's coltishness. She was ready to bolt at the drop of a hat. She wanted his help desperately but was too scared to ask.

 

 

*And OK, so I am shallow, I love her wardrobe and hair here, plus the sets are great as well. It's nice to look at, but there is so much more here. It's a life lesson all wrapped up in a beautiful package. Her search for meaning as opposed to mindlessly fleeing from one thing to the next was very spiritual to me, without any of the trappings that usually go along with 'spiritual' movies.*

 

 

Color me shallow too b'cuz her outfits were great ( love the riding habit ); but I did think she flit from clubbing to drinking too much to a blase attitude ( friends were sore at her ) to her horse trainer. I felt and related to her wanting to feel; To Feel Alive.

 

 

*I have to say that after watching again after so many years, this one is still my favorite Bette Davis performance. And that is saying one heck of a lot. She was able to completely transcend the material, and along with Goulding turned it into one of the best movies ever made. You can't take your eyes off Bette. The light touch was perfect for this film, and it made what could have been ridiculous and heavy handed something of hope and of beauty.*

 

 

What Bette Davis films do you like Jax*x*on? This would be in the top five of my favorites of hers.

 

 

*And you know what? I thought Bogie was great! His chemistry with her for that one scene in the stable room was like lightning. So sue me! I liked him and the way he and Bette batted the ball back and forth, acting wise. There was a flash of brilliance in his scenes that made me sit up in my chair. Made me wish they'd done another movie where they actually had scenes alone together. It could have been like a battle between the gods.*

 

 

Ahhh yes. Bogie. I won't sue you. But I might send you a subpoena. Bette and Bogie are cut from the same fiery cloth. I liked the emotion of the scene. She did "Marked Woman" "The Petrified Forest" with Bogie, but I'd have liked to see them on equal cinematic footing and really go toe-to-toe at it, when they both had the same measure of stardom. He was still two years away from his real break-out role.

 

 

* So yeah, I cried a bucketful, and not of Cliff Robertsons.*

 

 

Oh man. L0L! :^0

 

 

*I must be getting open minded because I thought it was a tremendously great scene, and I saw none of that leftover Bogart-can't play-Irish-thing that I thought I remembered. I thought he was pitch perfect.*

 

 

The accent doesn't work for me, and I tried. ( Put down that pitchfork! ) Look, I still can't get used to Stanwyck's wig in *"Double Indemnity."*

 

 

* I'm trying to remember when I first saw this movie, did I really think Bogie was terrible? I can't imagine it watching now. I totally loved him, this time, he added some fire and maleness to the proceedings, that's for sure and personally, I thought the accent was extremely good except for the novelty of it coming out in his voice.*

 

 

* I think more than likely I read something about this movie and didn't really make up my own mind about his performance, I just latched onto the oddness of an Irish accent coming out of Bogie's mouth.... I mean did folks back tin 39 think it was weird, or have we simply decided more recently that Bogie can only be Bogie in noir or quietly boozing himself to death in Casablanca? Is it that we have an image of him that is iconic and this character role doesn't fit that narrow perception? I find it no more odd than Bogie in naval uniform as Captain Queeg.*

 

 

You really *do* have a point there and that might very well be my issue. I totally get the point of the scene, and the class difference, and Judith wanting to feel alive. ( D'ya think the scene would have played differently if she had pursued him+?+ ) "Bogie can't do Irish": The learned stereotypical conventional wisdom, ey? That's one of the traps in liking classic films; not seeing a star's or director's films in chronological order. We come in to their earlier films with preconceived opinions formed after seeing their later work first. "Harlow was mis-cast in 'Platinum Blonde'." Really? She was? I totally believed she was to the manor born. I am probably guilty of the Monday morning quarterbacking, 20/20 hindsight thing where Bogie was concerned in "Dark Victory." I will have to work on that. There are other things in it for me to concentrate on.

 

 

I hadn't seen "Dark Victory" in the longest time myself. I was touched and moved by Judith's story. And I think it's one of the finest performances Bette Davis gave. You're right. You can't take your eyes off her. Or Bogie as Queeg. Now where are those strawberries?

 

 

[JamesJazGuitar]

I agree that while Bogie and Davis did many movies together (more than just the 2 listed as I'm sure you know), it would of been great if they were together in a movie after Bogie had the same status as Bette. e.g. a production done after Calablanca.

 

 

[FrankGrimes]

*I admit when I found out Jannsen was in the picture I suddenly became interested. I think he's such a wonderful actor. A real character actor.*

 

He's playing a pawn in *The Green Berets*. He's the doubting media with the Vietnam War who is challenged by the soldiers.

 

*The love story is wonderful the way it develops and changes the General. I laugh when Ingrid calls him "Vodka! Pure vodka!" Just when she finds herself, she realizes it's someone else she wants: the General. I thought that made for an interesting love story. I would not have been nearly as interested if the focus of the story had just been "is she really the Princess"?*

 

It's a very restrained kind of love affair, but thanks to Yul, you feel the burning underneath. Yul knows how to convey a burning passion. Ingrid is usually very outward with her feelings and passion. Well, at the least the younger Ingrid. The older Ingrid becomes more repressed.

 

*I'm surprised by your liking it that much. What's the draw for you?*

 

*Which movie were we talking about here?*

 

Autumn Leaves.

 

*I must admit to not having any sympathy for that mentality. So do you think the movie is about both drugs and the commentary on society or is the drug just a device, almost like a "truth serum" that brings out in exaggerated form what lies beneath?*

 

I believe it's both. It's an interesting combination since you can forgive the behavior because of the drug. But I believe Nicholas Ray is going after the mentality that your "truth serum" reveals. The entire idea of greatness but at all costs ends up being truly destructive. And there's a lot of self-delusion involved. A lot of inferiority complex. Again, all mirrors are removed.

 

*I guess that's enough for me sometimes! It's definitely an embarrassment in terms of quality material for such a cast (more like TV plot), but I enjoyed it the way that you enjoyed The War Wagon. Popcorn.*

 

It seemed like everyone was playing their roles but it all doesn't mesh together. Gary Cooper is floating along. Barbara Stanwyck is stewing. Anthony Quinn is gregariously chewing up scenery. This is how they usually are, but their characters have no real meaning or depth. It's basically a cartoon.

 

*Yes, that was strange, though the early 30s was all about turning marriage and sexual mores upside down (in a more innocent way than now).*

 

I do agree with that. But it seems like many early-30s scripts have an idea and then attempt to make a half-hearted story out of it. "I've got an idea. Loretta is a bad girl! Great! Let's shoot it!"

 

*It's a tie pretty much between Dark Victory and Now, Voyager.*

 

I'm very surprised by that. What are your next three favorite "Bette" films?

 

*You should watch some more early Davis, just for fun. She's super rotten in some of them, sweet in others. Definitely more variety in her early work. She's cute in Cabin in the Cotton, from what I remember. A terrible southern accent. *

 

So what are your suggestions?

 

*I find a sadness in him, that is best put to use in Grande Illusion.*

 

Hey, that's really good! There is a sadness to him. It's his eyes and stony expression. Although, I thought he was downright giddy in *Five Graves to Cairo*.

 

*What a sad movie. A great, great performance by him. You really should watch it. I don't like war movies, but this one feels anti-war, or at least, pro-humanity. And when I think of Von Stroheim, I think of that character. Unfortunately, I have not seen his "masterpieces" that he directed. Their length have put me off, though I'm sure they are visually stunning.*

 

I did record it when TCM aired it last week, but I'd rather get the Criterion DVD. The only problem is, it's OOP. So I have to either pay full price for it new or get it used. I'm also looking to watch the other Renoir films before it.

 

I've yet to watch a film directed by von Stroheim.

 

*I guess because I know how low Harvey can go, his character was just another in a rogue's gallery for me. So the movie was not surprising at all and rather dull.*

 

It's what Rave (Laurence Harvey) does in *The Good Die Young* that stunned me. It was rather amazing to see.

 

*She's marvelous at it. My favorite line (I've used it myself!): "I spit on charming!"*

 

So that's why you spit on me so much!

 

*And Harry Giardino is funny, too, with his reactions. This is the only comedy role I've seen him do, he's very funny!*

 

I never heard of the guy until now. He liked the idea of marriage.

 

*Oh, isn't it? I would feel very proud to have a daughter like Yvette in many ways. She may be "lacking" in the eyes of many, but to me she has the true way of seeing life. It's beautiful.*

 

Yes, we do poison ourselves with Society as we become "adults." Blech! So many rules. And you have the biggest mulebook around!

 

*What did you think of Barry? Did he seem overly harsh? I thought he was, yet there was a point where I sympathized with his possibly feeling sidelined. A child like that can take up so much of a mother's time and attention, that a husband (or even other children) could feel neglected.*

 

I thought his character was overdone. He was too easy to hate. This made it too easy for us to side with Meg (Olivia de Havilland). I'd prefer a more even-handed presentation of Noel (Barry Sullivan). But, I will say, I'm sure many men who love their business and money more than their wife and family would be like him and are still like him.

 

*I suppose, but I prefer her much looser and saucier. I love Powell in anything, but I admit the whole movie just seemed as you say: trying too hard.*

 

Myrna is one of the best "scolders" of all time. She's great when she's disapproving.

 

*Because TCM has played it so much! I admit I'm burned out on it now. Didn't you think Coop was really good?*

 

I just thought he was Coop, really. The film seems to be mostly "domestic." That's no good for me and sports. Conversely, take *The Set-Up*. That film features a serious domestic issue but it sure feels like a boxing flick. It's superb. A film like *The Hustler* gives you the entire feel of high stakes, back-room pool. *The Pride of the Yankees* doesn't feel like a baseball film to me. Heck, I think *The Naked Gun* feels more like baseball! And I watch a ton of baseball. It's been my favorite sport since I was about six.

 

*No! I insist he needed to stay with them, if only to protect them. They still had a long way to go.*

 

She's married! And then he would have had to see her with her husband! You might as well just stick a knife in his gut, right now!

 

*I think Molo finally saw it so hopefully he liked Jack, too. I agree it's one of his best, if not his very best. I liked the little business with the book, at the end. I am not a huge fan of Hudson, but he was very attractive in this movie.*

 

I can't remember the book! What's the book all about?

 

Rock always gives me a weird vibe. I mostly like him. I find him appealing. But he always seems drugged or dubbed or both. He has one the flattest of deliveries.

[FrankGrimes]

*I agree that while Bogie and Davis did many movies together (more than just the 2 listed as I'm sure you know), it would of been great if they were together in a movie after Bogie had the same status as Bette. e.g. a production done after Calablanca.*

 

And that's my issue with Bogie in *Dark Victory*. I loved the character and I think he does a terrific job with him, but it feels very strange to me that Bogie is Bette's stable boy. It feels like the "penalty box."

 

The film you are seeking with Bogie and Bette is *The African Queen*.

[MissGoddess]

> He's playing a pawn in *The Green Berets*. He's the doubting media with the Vietnam War who is challenged by the soldiers.

>

 

I think I know what you mean.

 

> It's a very restrained kind of love affair, but thanks to Yul, you feel the burning underneath. Yul knows how to convey a burning passion. Ingrid is usually very outward with her feelings and passion. Well, at the least the younger Ingrid. The older Ingrid becomes more repressed.

>

 

Really? I find her all over the place, emotionally. She goes to pieces quite a bit in *Anastasia*.

 

>

> *I'm surprised by your liking it that much. What's the draw for you?*

>

> *Which movie were we talking about here?*

>

 

I think it's an unusual story very well told. It's uncomfortable, but due I guess to when it was made, it doesn't cross the line. I can imagine this same story being unwatchable if made just a few years later. They'd have to show everything.

 

This way, it's Joan's emotional reaction to everything that's the focus and I like that. She does a great job playing someone who's veering between all dried up and given up, to boiling over with love she hasn't had the chance to give until now.

 

> I believe it's both. It's an interesting combination since you can forgive the behavior because of the drug. But I believe Nicholas Ray is going after the mentality that your "truth serum" reveals. The entire idea of greatness but at all costs ends up being truly destructive. And there's a lot of self-delusion involved. A lot of inferiority complex. Again, all mirrors are removed.

>

 

Oy, what Ray would have made of today's self-obessiveness.

 

> It seemed like everyone was playing their roles but it all doesn't mesh together. Gary Cooper is floating along. Barbara Stanwyck is stewing. Anthony Quinn is gregariously chewing up scenery. This is how they usually are, but their characters have no real meaning or depth. It's basically a cartoon.

>

 

I agree, it's a matinee film and I guess I'm the perfect audience!

 

I wonder if you'd like *King Solomon's Mines*. That has a stronger story and relationship. I do like these adventure films set in rather primitive surroundings.

 

> I do agree with that. But it seems like many early-30s scripts have an idea and then attempt to make a half-hearted story out of it. "I've got an idea. Loretta is a bad girl! Great! Let's shoot it!"

>

 

Ha! They certainly did crank them out. I do believe, though, they also produced a number of very fine, detailed films that show care even though they are not ponderous or "epic", as say, in the 1950s and 60s.

 

> I'm very surprised by that. What are your next three favorite "Bette" films?

>

 

1. Now, Voyager

2. Dark Victory

3. All This, And Heaven, Too

4. All About Eve

5. The Petrified Forest

 

>

> *You should watch some more early Davis, just for fun. She's super rotten in some of them, sweet in others. Definitely more variety in her early work. She's cute in Cabin in the Cotton, from what I remember. A terrible southern accent. *

>

> So what are your suggestions?

>

 

*Fog Over Frisco, Marked Woman, Dangerous, Bordertown*. Then there's *Of Human Bondage* if you want to see her behaving really awful. It's a depressing movie but you might like the story (based on a classic by Somerset Maugham. Kim Novak played Bette's character in a 60s remake).

 

 

>

> *I find a sadness in him, that is best put to use in Grande Illusion.*

>

> Hey, that's really good! There is a sadness to him. It's his eyes and stony expression. Although, I thought he was downright giddy in *Five Graves to Cairo*.

>

 

Giddy? I remember him being sarcastic, in bed.

 

> I did record it when TCM aired it last week, but I'd rather get the Criterion DVD. The only problem is, it's OOP. So I have to either pay full price for it new or get it used. I'm also looking to watch the other Renoir films before it.

>

 

Saving the best for last?

 

> It's what Rave (Laurence Harvey) does in *The Good Die Young* that stunned me. It was rather amazing to see.

>

 

I knew he was going to do it. He's such a knave. The ultimate knave or swine. He's very good at that. See *Room at the Top* where he's the same, yet quasi-sympathetic.

 

> I never heard of the guy until now. He liked the idea of marriage.

>

 

Ha! Harry is familiar to me from lots of 60s and 70s TV appearances. I used to confuse him with Ben Gazzara and Tony Franciosa.

 

> I thought his character was overdone. He was too easy to hate. This made it too easy for us to side with Meg (Olivia de Havilland). I'd prefer a more even-handed presentation of Noel (Barry Sullivan). But, I will say, I'm sure many men who love their business and money more than their wife and family would be like him and are still like him.

>

 

I feel both ways, too. But yes, it would have been more interesting had he cared more.

 

> I just thought he was Coop, really. The film seems to be mostly "domestic." That's no good for me and sports. Conversely, take *The Set-Up*. That film features a serious domestic issue but it sure feels like a boxing flick. It's superb. A film like *The Hustler* gives you the entire feel of high stakes, back-room pool. *The Pride of the Yankees* doesn't feel like a baseball film to me. Heck, I think *The Naked Gun* feels more like baseball! And I watch a ton of baseball. It's been my favorite sport since I was about six.

>

 

I think it's meant to be more a personal drama (or tale of heroism, if you will) than a sports film.

 

> She's married! And then he would have had to see her with her husband! You might as well just stick a knife in his gut, right now!

>

 

That's no 'scuse for turning a woman and child out in the wildnerness, alone!

 

> I can't remember the book! What's the book all about?

>

 

I forgot.

 

> Rock always gives me a weird vibe. I mostly like him. I find him appealing. But he always seems drugged or dubbed or both. He has one the flattest of deliveries.

>

 

That's mostly how I react to him, too, but maybe because he was the calm in the midst of this storm in *Angels*, he appealed to me more. He's at his best when he's funny.

[FrankGrimes]

*Really? I find her all over the place, emotionally. She goes to pieces quite a bit in Anastasia.*

 

And that's how I usually see Ingrid. She's one to go to pieces. She's very outward. Yul is very inward.

 

 

*This way, it's Joan's emotional reaction to everything that's the focus and I like that. She does a great job playing someone who's veering between all dried up and given up, to boiling over with love she hasn't had the chance to give until now.*

 

 

"All dried up to boiling over." That's good! Joan is very good at showing these emotions, too. I definitely liked her hesitancy. She was really tough on Burt (Cliff Robertson) at the start, trying to push him away as hard as possible.

 

 

*Oy, what Ray would have made of today's self-obessiveness.*

 

 

I'm pretty sure he'd love to make a film about today's society. It's truly a horror flick. A dying person on the side of the road will be filmed by a cell phone and then uploaded to be "Liked" more so than helped. It's amazing how if it's "you," help is expected and demanded. If it's not "you," it doesn't register a blip. *2001: A Space Odyssey* is now a reality.

 

*I agree, it's a matinee film and I guess I'm the perfect audience! *

 

 

I'll say!

 

 

*I wonder if you'd like King Solomon's Mines. That has a stronger story and relationship. I do like these adventure films set in rather primitive surroundings.*

 

 

The one with Deborah Kerr?

 

 

*Ha! They certainly did crank them out. I do believe, though, they also produced a number of very fine, detailed films that show care even though they are not ponderous or "epic", as say, in the 1950s and 60s.*

 

 

Oh, there are some wonderfully-done films in the early-30s. I'm just amazed by how some of these films are simply stretched scenarios.

 

 

*1. Now, Voyager*

*2. Dark Victory*

*3. All This, And Heaven, Too*

*4. All About Eve*

*5. The Petrified Forest*

 

 

I've seen all of Bette's best?

 

 

*Fog Over Frisco, Marked Woman, Dangerous, Bordertown. Then there's Of Human Bondage if you want to see her behaving really awful. It's a depressing movie but you might like the story (based on a classic by Somerset Maugham. Kim Novak played Bette's character in a 60s remake).*

 

 

Those I have not seen. *Marked Woman* seems like a good starting point.

 

 

*Giddy? I remember him being sarcastic, in bed.*

 

 

The scene with "20 questions" is where I sensed Rommel (Erich von Stroheim) being rather giddy. All of that attention.

 

 

*Saving the best for last?*

 

 

Well, I broke down and ordered a used copy of *Grand Illusion*. I've got a lot of Jean Renoir to watch, coming up.

 

 

*I knew he was going to do it. He's such a knave. The ultimate knave or swine. He's very good at that. See Room at the Top where he's the same, yet quasi-sympathetic.*

 

 

But how he does it is stunning! I haven't seen such "knives in the back"!

 

 

*Ha! Harry is familiar to me from lots of 60s and 70s TV appearances. I used to confuse him with Ben Gazzara and Tony Franciosa.*

 

 

And those are two more performers I know by name, mostly. The 60s and early-70s are "dead zones" for me.

 

 

*I feel both ways, too. But yes, it would have been more interesting had he cared more.*

 

 

I believe so. I usually dislike when a director or writer chooses the easy way out with characters. The spoonfeeding of hate or dislike rubs me the wrong way. And that's how Noel Johnson (Barry Sullivan) is shown to us in *Light in the Piazza*. It's the weakest part of the film.

 

 

*I think it's meant to be more a personal drama (or tale of heroism, if you will) than a sports film.*

 

 

I believe you're right. And that falls way short with me since I'm such a huge baseball fan. It makes the film far more accessible to the non-sports fan, though. And I think that was its goal.

 

 

*That's no 'scuse for turning a woman and child out in the wildnerness, alone!*

 

 

Blame her husband!

 

 

*That's mostly how I react to him, too, but maybe because he was the calm in the midst of this storm in Angels, he appealed to me more. He's at his best when he's funny.*

 

 

Rock almost seems surreal. He's idyllic yet this makes him seem cold, like a statue. I do like it when he's playing the obnoxious or misguided male in comedies.

[JackFavell]

May I butt in and ask which Bette films you've seen?

 

Also, what Renoir you are going to watch?

 

Also I'd like to leave a recommendation for King Solomon's Mines. And I don't even like Stewart Granger but it's a pip of a movie.