The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread

[MissGoddess]

i totally forgot about the african queen! i would have guessed it was in his top four or five, too.

[FrankGrimes]

*i totally forgot about the african queen! i would have guessed it was in his top four or five, too.*

Well, you only guessed nine, so that would make ten. It would also mean you guessed seven of my top eight, correctly. Way to go!

[JackFavell]

> Well, it's mighty, mighty close.

 

 

#5? YAY!

 

> I can see how you'd like the film. Why? It's a film that utilizes a good supporting cast. They are just as important to the picture as Bob. Maybe even more so.

>

 

I couldn't really say why I liked Lemon Drop Kid so much, it just has a really great sweet but not sticky vibe. I didn't even notice how many character actors there were in it, or that their roles were good sized. I'm a big Damon Runyon fan, and that's probably why - there are lots of great side characters in his stories, plus he always has a great redemptive ending. I like Cornell Woolrich too, he writes with lots of odd characters along the periphery too.

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Jan 22, 2013 6:39 PM

[FrankGrimes]

 

*#5? :DYAY!*

 

 

Uh-huh.

 

*I couldn't really say why I liked Lemon Drop Kid so much, it just has a really great +sweet< but not sticky vibe. I didn't even notice how many character actors there were in it, or that their roles were good sized. I'm a big Damon Runyon fan, and that's probably why - there are lots of great side characters in his stories, plus he always has a great redemptive ending. I like Cornell Woolrich too, he writes with lots of odd characters along the periphery too.*

 

All of that is right on the mark. The mixture of crime and charity ends up being a funny one. The supporting cast gives the film a ton of character.

 

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

>

*i totally forgot about the african queen! i would have guessed it was in his top four or five, too.*

>

> Well, you only guessed nine, so that would make ten. It would also mean you guessed seven of my top eight, correctly. Way to go!

 

 

good grief, i can't even count anymore.

 

 

the two of the ten i'm least sure you liked that much are *crime of passion* and *footsteps in the fog*.

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Jan 22, 2013 6:50 PM

[FrankGrimes]

 

*good grief, i can't even count anymore. *

 

 

You were distracted with your thinking of ways to get after Movieman and Molo!

 

*the two of the ten i'm least sure you liked that much are crime of passion and footsteps in the fog.*

 

Well, you're right, both are not in the top ten. But one is very close and one is far off.

[MissGoddess]

so what's your ranking?

[FrankGrimes]

I was giving Jackie a chance to comment on what she liked or didn't like. But here it is:

 

1. Detective Story

2. The Tall Target

3. The Lineup

4. Jubal

5. The African Queen

6. The Dawn Patrol (1938)

7. Grand Illusion

8. The Bridge on the River Kwai

9. The Adventures of Robin Hood

10. The Longest Day

11. The Lemon Drop Kid

12. I Love You Again

13. Footsteps in the Fog

14. 5 Against the House

15. Tomorrow Is Another Day

16. The Rose Tattoo

17. The Ghost Breakers

18. Death in the Garden

19. The Fly

20. Good Sam

21. Wichita

22. Brannigan

23. Marked Woman

24. Reckless

25. Nevada Smith

26. Ten Wanted Men

27. It Started in Naples

28. Move Over, Darling

29. The Left Hand of God

30. Cast a Giant Shadow

31. The Bottom of the Bottle

32. Crime of Passion

33. The Women

34. The Importance of Being Earnest

35. The Moving Image

36. You and Me

37. Hot Saturday

38. The Lion

39. Blonde Fever

40. We're Not Married!

 

[MissGoddess]

oops! i'm sorry, jackie!

 

something tells me the first twenty are where it's at.

[FrankGrimes]

*something tells me the first twenty are where it's at.*

 

I'd say the top 16 are films I liked quite a bit. From then on, I liked many of the films but they were more flawed. Even my least favorite films in this group have redeeming qualities. Although, Movieman is right, *We're Not Married!* is really bad. It's hard to find much to like in that one.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}*something tells me the first twenty are where it's at.*

>

> I'd say the top 16 are films I liked quite a bit. From then on, I liked many of the films but they were more flawed. Even my least favorite films in this group have redeeming qualities. Although, Movieman is right, *We're Not Married!* is really bad. It's hard to find much to like in that one.

only marilyn.

[FrankGrimes]

*only marilyn.*

 

Yes, Marilyn in a swimsuit.

[rohanaka]

 

It's a Quiet Gal suggestion. Do you think there is any way I'd like it

 

 

Wellllll... Will wonders never cease. NUMBER EIGHT!!! I will count that as a "slight' win.. ha. But in truth... I never know for sure HOW much you like the movies on your lists like these,ha.. because they are not necessarily "favorites" they are just the last round of films you've seen.. so if you are only listing them in order of how you like that BUNCH of movies.. ha.. "LIKE" may be a relative term.. ha.

 

 

So now.. Mr. Grey.. what DOES the number EIGHT out of 40 mean for you (in terms of "like") ??????????????? Inquiring minds wanna know.

 

 

(meanwhile.. I'll go fire up the 'hot box" for you.. just in case. After all.. this IS WAR... this not a game of CRICKET!)

 

 

I see you did end up liking Jubal. I thought that one might be to your liking.. based on what I recall. (but again.. ha.. IF I can trust that ranking it #4 MEANS that you LIKED it.. ha.. or does it just mean that you liked it that much more than the OTHER ones on the list.

 

 

(ha.. yes.. I am feeling onery.. ha... I confess. I have just been so cooped up lately w/ all the germs and such.. ha.. I needed to blow off some steam. HA)

 

 

So.. all kidding aside.. I am HOPING that the high ranking you have on these two mean that you DID find some things to like about them. I will look forward to hearing your thoughts on them both.. and on some of the others too.

 

 

(I only recently watched #11 myself... really enjoyed it (and was like Miss G in that I am not a big"Bob" fan.. but did enjoy this one a lot)

 

 

I have seen a few of the others in your list too.. but will have to look some of them up to say for sure how many.. a few of the titles seem familiar.. but I can't recall for sure. Still.. some are ones I have seen several times and a few I have enjoyed quite a bit.. so will look forward to hear what you have to say about them all.

 

 

Meanwhile.... am glad you did not at least appear to totally HATE at least ONE of your Christmas presents.. ha. (can't wait to hear what the other one was.. ha.. HEy.. maybe I only ruined HALF your Christmas)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[movieman1957]

Interesting listings for your preferences. Quite a few in the upper group, that I have seen, also would be among my favorites. I'm glad to see "Jubal" high on your list. And look at that for Ro, "Kwai" at number 9. "Be happy in your work." (Saw it on the big screen this past summer.)

 

The middle group works about the same. I'm a little surprised "Wichita" is as high as it is. And, for some reason I can't fathom other than the coincidence of it, "The Women" so low. Based on its reputation it would seem to come higher but with it being a two hour cat fight maybe it just wears out its welcome.

 

I haven't seen that many of the bottom part. Another fine list with a wide variety of things. More stuff for Netflix.

[FrankGrimes]

 

*Wellllll... Will wonders never cease. NUMBER EIGHT!!! I will count that as a "slight' win.. ha.*

 

 

Yeah, I'd say that's a win.

 

 

*So now.. Mr. Grey.. what DOES the number EIGHT out of 40 mean for you (in terms of "like") ??????????????? Inquiring minds wanna know.*

 

 

It's # 132 for the 50s (out of 300) and it's # 397 on my overall list (out of 1164). *The Maggie*, another film I really liked, ranked right in front of it for the decade and overall.

 

 

*(meanwhile.. I'll go fire up the 'hot box" for you.. just in case. After all.. this IS WAR... this not a game of CRICKET!) *

 

 

You just want me to build you a better bridge!

 

 

*I see you did end up liking Jubal. I thought that one might be to your liking.. based on what I recall. (but again.. ha.. IF I can trust that ranking it #4 MEANS that you LIKED it.. ha.. or does it just mean that you liked it that much more than the OTHER ones on the list. *

 

 

*Jubal* is # 93 for the 50s and is # 281 overall. I also have it # 38 on my westerns list.

 

*(I only recently watched #11 myself... really enjoyed it (and was like Miss G in that I am not a big"Bob" fan.. but did enjoy this one a lot)*

 

I really enjoyed *The Lemon Drop Kid*. What a nice little "Christmas" picture. The film had a lot of character and heart.

 

*Meanwhile.... am glad you did not at least appear to totally HATE at least ONE of your Christmas presents.. ha. (can't wait to hear what the other one was.. ha.. HEy.. maybe I only ruined HALF your Christmas) *

 

I will be watching your other flick in the next group. That will be a bigger challenge to win me over is my guess.

[FrankGrimes]

*Interesting listings for your preferences. Quite a few in the upper group, that I have seen, also would be among my favorites.*

I'd say the "masculine" films connected with me much more, this time. I'm not that big on war films but I liked the ones I watched in this group. I thought they were very good. Film noir is usually going to rank highly with me. I also like good westerns. *The African Queen* ranks highly on my list because of its romanticism.

*I'm glad to see "Jubal" high on your list.*


*And look at that for Ro, "Kwai" at number 9. "Be happy in your work." (Saw it on the big screen this past summer.)*


You couldn't pick too many films better to see on the big screen. It's a beautifully composed and shot film. The sounds of the film are great, too.


*The middle group works about the same. I'm a little surprised "Wichita" is as high as it is.*


It kind of felt like Joel McCrea's "*High Noon*." It's a much lesser film, though. And I have it # 92 on my westerns list (out of 157), so I do view it as rather average. Still, I found it mostly entertaining. Joel is very steely in this one.


*And, for some reason I can't fathom other than the coincidence of it, "The Women" so low. Based on its reputation it would seem to come higher but with it being a two hour cat fight maybe it just wears out its welcome.*


It's a very well-made film... it's just not my kind of film. It wore me out. I didn't like the story, either. But that's not where the value of the film lies. It's all about the dialogue.

[JackFavell]

Guessing bags my nylons.

 

The Women is too cutthroat for you. + it has a fashion show for goodness sake!

 

 

I like parts of *We're Not Married.* Not the Ginger part, but the Paul Douglas/Eve Arden part, the Marilyn/David Wayne part, and the Louis Calhern/Zsa Zsa part. I have no taste I guess, but I like short story movies.

 

I can't help but always watch the last scene in Bridge. "What have I done?", Alec Guinness always gets me, to the point of tears. And was there ever a better fall in the movies?

[movieman1957]

From what I remember of "We're Not Married" I didn't get the Douglas/Arden part. I don't remember much about it but I do remember being confused when it was over.

 

The only one I liked was the Calhern/Gabor part. How nice for the guy not be the one shafted.

[JackFavell]

I honestly can't remember what it's about, I think it's kind of distasteful - they decide to stay together out of boredom and no one else will have them.... but it has Paul Douglas and Eve Arden in it so I liked it.

 

The Zsa Zsa/Calhern part made me howl.

[FrankGrimes]

*The Women is too cutthroat for you.*

 

No, it's not that. I found it to be annoying. Roz is especially bothersome... and I like Roz. You know it's trouble when I like Norma Shearer the most.

 

*+ it has a fashion show for goodness sake!*

 

Painful! That couldn't end fast enough. But it dragged on and on!

 

*I like parts of We're Not Married. Not the Ginger part, but the Paul Douglas/Eve Arden part, the Marilyn/David Wayne part, and the Louis Calhern/Zsa Zsa part. I have no taste I guess, but I like short story movies.*

 

 

I like the idea of anthology, but this one did a poor job of tying it all together. Louis & ZsaZsa was the best one. I also liked Paul Douglas' daydream. I didn't go for the Marilyn story.

 

 

*I can't help but always watch the last scene in Bridge. "What have I done?", Alec Guinness always gets me, to the point of tears. And was there ever a better fall in the movies?*

 

 

Really? You cried for Nicholson (Alec Guinness)? I didn't have any feelings for him.

 

 

[rohanaka]

 

that's a win

 

 

Woo hoo!

 

 

It's # 132 for the 50s (out of 300) and it's # 397 on my overall list (out of 1164

 

 

Ha.. I get kick out of seeing your rankings like this. I think you must be one of the most "scientific' movie watchers I have ever known. I really admire how you know what you like well enough to be able to rank them all in order of HOW much you like them. (ha.. me.. I am lucky if I can even remember I SAW some movies.. ha. But the ones I DO remember, I still go back and forth trying to determine what I like better.. sometimes. I guess it really does sort of depend. (because the ones I LOVE, I know how I feel about them.. the others usually get jumbled up somehow and I might like one more sometimes than I do at others.. ha. I must be more "fickle' than I realized. ha. (no.. more likely.. just an unorganized movie watcher.... ha.. alas)

 

 

So how does BOTRK rank for you with other WAR movies??? That to me would be where I would look to see your higher rankings.. at least that is where I put this one higher than I might.. say if I were just comparing it to dramas. (and ps.. if I WERE a list maker.. hmmmmmmm.... I might say this one was.. hmm.. maybe #4 or 5 on my list of fave war films. (or at least films that are centered around "war" as the theme. There are a few I like better.. but this one ranks pretty high that way for me.

 

 

OH.. and ha.. remember way back when you once told me that you thought Ft Apache was "boring" but you did not mean that as a slight and you said it was still a good film.. and I told you that the QT uses "boring" that way too.. to describe certain movies that he really LIKES but that do not have a lot of action.. movies you have to sort of watch and get "into" to enjoy.. ha. THIS one would be probably one of his all time favorite "BORING" movies. ha.

 

 

(you two guys need a better dictionary.. HA)

 

 

*Jubal* is # 93 for the 50s and is # 281 overall. I also have it # 38 on my westerns list

 

 

It has been a good while since I saw this one.. but I do remember enough about it that I am not surprised to see you rank it that well. I was thinking this one would be to your liking just from what I recall of how it all comes together (especially near the end) I think this is one of my more fave GFords.. and maybe one of my fave Borgnines (in terms of performances) although I have to say.. he is not my fave Borgnine character.

 

 

What a nice little "Christmas" picture

 

 

It was a fun story.. sweet, even. Though I don't really think it was too "Christmas" though.. but it did take place AT Christmas.. ha. So I guess it is sort of a Christmas pic in that regard.

 

 

That will be a bigger challenge to win me over is my guess

 

 

Well NOW you have to tell me WHICH one it is.. ha. I think I can recall a couple I mentioned to you.. and ha.. some I am sure you will like more than others. (ha.. I just want to prepare myself for how badly you will hate me for making someone get you a crummy Christmas present)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[movieman1957]

I think Borgnine's character in "Jubal" is what drives the film. His 180 turn on his personality is a surprise but there is no movie without it.

 

The same guy who recues Ford, gives him a job, protects him from some of the others and welcomes him into his home is undone by jealousy and his mistrust put on the wrong person.

 

The feeling I have for Nicholson in "Kwai" is a sadness for him. What he does at the outset is certainly with the best intentions. But he gets caught up in it all. WHen he finally gets the upper hand on Hiyakawa it gets him and he loses perspective. Only too late does he realize it.

[MissGoddess]

Re: Bridge on the River Kwai

 

I admit I don't have any personal feelings or particular sympathy for Nicholson, just for the sad scenario and knowing how it can play out over and over and over. I felt for the men under him.

 

Re: The Women

 

Until *Picnic*, Roz was never so annoying. I liked Paulette, she was the only normal one to me. Norma was okay in a thankless role.

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Jan 23, 2013 11:43 AM

[FrankGrimes]

 

*Ha.. I get kick out of seeing your rankings like this. I think you must be one of the most "scientific' movie watchers I have ever known. I really admire how you know what you like well enough to be able to rank them all in order of HOW much you like them.*

 

I'm analytical. I come from sports, where everything is about determining who is the best. This also plays into my being a collector. It's my "checklist."

 

 

*(ha.. me.. I am lucky if I can even remember I SAW some movies.. ha. But the ones I DO remember, I still go back and forth trying to determine what I like better.. sometimes. I guess it really does sort of depend. (because the ones I LOVE, I know how I feel about them.. the others usually get jumbled up somehow and I might like one more sometimes than I do at others.. ha. I must be more "fickle' than I realized. ha. (no.. more likely.. just an unorganized movie watcher.... ha.. alas)*

 

 

You have far more important things in your life to focus on than I do. But I would definitely classify myself as "organized."

 

 

*So how does BOTRK rank for you with other WAR movies???*

 

 

I'm not sure. It's hard for me to classify war films. I like a few that have the motivations of war surrounding them, such as *Pickup on South Street*, *The Manchurian Candidate*, and *Casablanca*. The same with a few of Hitch's films. But I don't call any of those "war pics." Is *Gunga Din* a war pic? How about *The Americanization of Emily* ? That seems to be more of a comedy. I'd say, in terms of war pics to me, I'd go with:

 

 

1. The Sand Pebbles

2. Men in War

3. Bitter Victory

4. Grand Illusion

5. The Bridge on the River Kwai

 

 

And that would be all that would make up my top 400 films.

 

 

*That to me would be where I would look to see your higher rankings.. at least that is where I put this one higher than I might.. say if I were just comparing it to dramas. (and ps.. if I WERE a list maker.. hmmmmmmm.... I might say this one was.. hmm.. maybe #4 or 5 on my list of fave war films. (or at least films that are centered around "war" as the theme. There are a few I like better.. but this one ranks pretty high that way for me.*

 

 

So which ones rank higher?

 

 

*OH.. and ha.. remember way back when you once told me that you thought Ft Apache was "boring" but you did not mean that as a slight and you said it was still a good film.. and I told you that the QT uses "boring" that way too.. to describe certain movies that he really LIKES but that do not have a lot of action.. movies you have to sort of watch and get "into" to enjoy.. ha. THIS one would be probably one of his all time favorite "BORING" movies. ha. *

 

 

*(you two guys need a better dictionary.. HA)*

 

 

I think I know how he's using the word "boring." There's nothing going on in terms of action. It's the difference between baseball and football with many people. Baseball is for only certain kinds of people whereas football is for most.

 

 

I believe *Fort Apache* is boring for the first half in terms of what interests me. I only like the meeting of Thursday (Henry Fonda) and Collingwood (George O'Brien). I understand it's all about developing characters and a community, it's just I found it boring.

 

 

And it's interesting you bring that film up since Nicholson reminds me of Thursday. I didn't feel any sympathy for him, either.

 

*It has been a good while since I saw this one.. but I do remember enough about it that I am not surprised to see you rank it that well. I was thinking this one would be to your liking just from what I recall of how it all comes together (especially near the end) I think this is one of my more fave GFords.. and maybe one of my fave Borgnines (in terms of performances) although I have to say.. he is not my fave Borgnine character.*

 

The three principals: Glenn Ford, Ernest Borgnine, and Rod Steiger, are all terrific. They are playing characters that are right in each of their wheelhouses.

 

*It was a fun story.. sweet, even. Though I don't really think it was too "Christmas" though.. but it did take place AT Christmas.. ha. So I guess it is sort of a Christmas pic in that regard.*

 

The message is also very "Christmas."

 

*Well NOW you have to tell me WHICH one it is.. ha. I think I can recall a couple I mentioned to you.. and ha.. some I am sure you will like more than others. (ha.. I just want to prepare myself for how badly you will hate me for making someone get you a crummy Christmas present) *

 

That will be a surprise!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JackFavell]

> No, it's not that. I found it to be annoying. Roz is especially bothersome... and I like Roz. You know it's trouble when I like Norma Shearer the most.

 

For me it's Paulette, Mary Boland, and Joan Fontaine, in that order. Lately I've come to really love Joan Crawford in the film, she's so marvelously cast here, and she does a heck of a job. I like her so long scene. Good natured loser for a change. I also just LOVE Virginia Grey who I think is one of the prettiest starlets from that time. She's the other girl behind the counter, the one heckling Crystal when she's on the phone with Stephen.

 

> Painful! That couldn't end fast enough. But it dragged on and on!

 

I find the fashion show hilarious because I think they were using up leftover costumes from The Wizard of Oz. Munchkin hats were really in in '39.

 

> I like the idea of anthology, but this one did a poor job of tying it all together. Louis & ZsaZsa was the best one. I also liked Paul Douglas' daydream. I didn't go for the Marilyn story.

 

I'll go along with that I guess, I just like Marilyn and David Wayne together. It's a funny pairing to me.

 

> Really? You cried for Nicholson (Alec Guinness)? I didn't have any feelings for him.

 

Well, yes I feel for Nicholson, yes, in the same way I feel for any human being who is caught up in delusion or a lie. I feel that way about Nixon sometimes too. I feel for Nicholson at that moment of self awareness, his eyes are opened for that second as to how deluded he's been. it's a great movie moment. Guinness is brilliant at playing this role, the man is so wrongheaded, foolish and yes, mad as a hatter, but it's a national madness. It makes his realization sensational when it finally comes.

 

 

SPOILERS ON THE RIVER KWAI

 

Mainly I cry because it's just such a great moment in film. I get kind of mushy about certain movies or scenes in film.... there are only about 5 that can make me cry for the way they are handled by a director. When a scene is done perfectly, it chokes me up. This scene was done PERFECTLY. All this stuff is happening, Nicholson sees the wire, they are all breathlessly waiting for the moment and in comes this jackass,ON THEIR SIDE, pulling up the wire. I believe the boy goes to kill Nicholson and the commandant, but he gets shot instead, then Holden goes floundering across the river. You've come so far with them through the movie, you can't believe it will all be screwed up by Nicholson. And then Holden is shot, bullets are whizzing by and in the middle of it all is Guinness, having this moment of still (quiet) self revelation. And it happens! He's got it! He suddenly realizes what he's been doing.... he turns to act, to change the outcome, because he knows that what he's done is wrong, maybe even evil, but is shot in this moment of self awareness. His very last act, the very final thing he does, and he's dead already, before it happens, is to fall on that plunger. It's an accident, redeeming him, but it doesn't matter. It's beautifully illustrative of the madness of war. It's just plain beautiful.