The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread

[FrankGrimes]

*I think Borgnine's character in "Jubal" is what drives the film. His 180 turn on his personality is a surprise but there is no movie without it.*

 

*The same guy who recues Ford, gives him a job, protects him from some of the others and welcomes him into his home is undone by jealousy and his mistrust put on the wrong person.*

 

 

Shep (Ernest Borgnine) was a good-hearted man who wasn't the sharpest tack in the box. And Pinky (Rod Steiger) knew this and used it to his advantage. Jealousy and fear is what drives *Jubal*... which is why I loved the film. It's a great sociological western. It can also be seen as a "McCarthy Era" western. "He smells of sheep."

 

*The feeling I have for Nicholson in "Kwai" is a sadness for him. What he does at the outset is certainly with the best intentions. But he gets caught up in it all. WHen he finally gets the upper hand on Hiyakawa it gets him and he loses perspective. Only too late does he realize it.*

 

Pride run amok. I love the sign on the completed bridge. That was the perfect touch. Nicholson cannot just carry his pride within, he must be acknowledged. He needs his "medal."

[MissGoddess]

wonderful description of the scene with Nicholson. yes, it's an amazing moment. when you can capture so much inner AND outer emotion, conflict and story with such dexterity and eloquence, that is a masterpiece.

[FrankGrimes]

*Re: Bridge on the River Kwai*

 

*I admit I don't have any personal feelings or particular sympathy for Nicholson, just for the sad scenario and knowing how it can play out over and over and over. I felt for the men under him.*

 

It seemed like the men under Nicholson didn't have an issue with it except for Major Clipton (James Donald). He knew what was going on.

 

*Re: The Women*

 

*Until Picnic, Roz was never so annoying. I liked Paulette, she was the only normal one to me. Norma was okay in a thankless role.*

 

I was bothered more by Roz in *The Women*. Probably because she was on the screen more. Do you mean Joan or Paulette? Paulette is a vamp! But I guess that could be seen as normal.

[FrankGrimes]

*For me it's Paulette, Mary Boland, and Joan Fontaine, in that order.*

 

I would not have guessed that. Why them? I can guess why with Mary.

 

I liked Norma, Lucile Watson, Joan, and Phyllis Povah, who plays "Edith." Roz, Joan, and Mary are too much for me.

 

*Lately I've come to really love Joan Crawford in the film, she's so marvelously cast here, and she does a heck of a job. I like her so long scene. Good natured loser for a change.*

 

I thought she was very good. It's a role she can really run with.

 

*I also just LOVE Virginia Grey who I think is one of the prettiest starlets from that time. She's the other girl behind the counter, the one heckling Crystal when she's on the phone with Stephen.*

 

I know the scene but I don't remember her look. So many Virginias!

 

*I find the fashion show hilarious because I think they were using up leftover costumes from The Wizard of Oz. Munchkin hats were really in in '39.*

 

That's funny!

 

 

*I'll go along with that I guess, I just like Marilyn and David Wayne together. It's a funny pairing to me.*

 

It's a very odd pairing!

 

 

*Well, yes I feel for Nicholson, yes, in the same way I feel for any human being who is caught up in delusion or a lie. I feel that way about Nixon sometimes too. I feel for Nicholson at that moment of self awareness, his eyes are opened for that second as to how deluded he's been. it's a great movie moment. Guinness is brilliant at playing this role, the man is so wrongheaded, foolish and yes, mad as a hatter, but it's a national madness. It makes his realization sensational when it finally comes.*

 

You're a better person than me! I have a very difficult time with the rigid who cling to rules. I really have an issue with the overly prideful. This is the "black and white" region that gets me.

 

*SPOILERS ON THE RIVER KWAI*

 

*Mainly I cry because it's just such a great moment in film. I get kind of mushy about certain movies or scenes in film.... there are only about 5 that can make me cry for the way they are handled by a director. When a scene is done perfectly, it chokes me up. This scene was done PERFECTLY. All this stuff is happening, Nicholson sees the wire, they are all breathlessly waiting for the moment and in comes this jackass,ON THEIR SIDE, pulling up the wire. I believe the boy goes to kill Nicholson and the commandant, but he gets shot instead, then Holden goes floundering across the river. You've come so far with them through the movie, you can't believe it will all be screwed up by Nicholson. And then Holden is shot, bullets are whizzing by and in the middle of it all is Guinness, having this moment of still (quiet) self revelation. And it happens! He's got it! He suddenly realizes what he's been doing.... he turns to act, to change the outcome, because he knows that what he's done is wrong, maybe even evil, but is shot in this moment of self awareness. His very last act, the very final thing he does, and he's dead already, before it happens, is to fall on that plunger. It's an accident, redeeming him, but it doesn't matter. It's beautifully illustrative of the madness of war. It's just plain beautiful.*

 

 

And that is just plain beautiful. Nicely done!

 

 

I felt more for Shears (William Holden) at the end. The guy escapes Hell only to "volunteer" to go back. There's no way he wanted to be there, yet he gets caught up in the moment and does the right thing. And he ends up getting it in the end. Amazing.

 

 

The tension in the final scene is spectacular. Talk about utilizing drama to its fullest. And I love that Lean just leaves us there.

 

 

I'm glad I watched *Grand Illusion* before *The Bridge on the River Kwai*, because they are fairly similar.

[Bronxgirl48]

To make my doctor happy, I got a flu shot for the very first time two months ago. Since I'm probably not going to take the statins he will no doubt recommend when I see him in February, the flu shot was the least I could do, lol.

 

You, Sans and Cap all need a dose of Yakov's Golden Elixir.

 

Edited by: Bronxgirl48 on Jan 23, 2013 1:13 PM

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}*For me it's Paulette, Mary Boland, and Joan Fontaine, in that order.*

>

> I would not have guessed that. Why them? I can guess why with Mary.

 

Mary's just out and out hilarious! Her timing is impeccable, love the way she drops some lines and wails others. It's the ones she drops that really crack me up.

 

Paulette is golden in this movie. The voice of reason, albeit a golddigger's reason. She's the best she ever was here. I just like her complete disregard of what other people think of her. Shes a gem.

 

And Joan Fontaine is this sweet thing! She's silly, too easily swayed by others, but it's hard to carry that off, really hard, so I like her very much for playing the hardest role in the whole movie and doing it well. And she's actually funny.

 

> I liked Norma, Lucile Watson, Joan, and Phyllis Povah, who plays "Edith." Roz, Joan, and Mary are too much for me.

 

I like Edith a lot.

 

 

> *Well, yes I feel for Nicholson, yes, in the same way I feel for any human being who is caught up in delusion or a lie. I feel that way about Nixon sometimes too. I feel for Nicholson at that moment of self awareness, his eyes are opened for that second as to how deluded he's been. it's a great movie moment. Guinness is brilliant at playing this role, the man is so wrongheaded, foolish and yes, mad as a hatter, but it's a national madness. It makes his realization sensational when it finally comes.*

>

>

> You're a better person than me! I have a very difficult time with the rigid who cling to rules. I really have an issue with the overly prideful. This is the "black and white" region that gets me.

 

That's funny! I can't get over that you have a black and white side.

 

> *SPOILERS ON THE RIVER KWAI*

>

>

> *Mainly I cry because it's just such a great moment in film. I get kind of mushy about certain movies or scenes in film.... there are only about 5 that can make me cry for the way they are handled by a director. When a scene is done perfectly, it chokes me up. This scene was done PERFECTLY. All this stuff is happening, Nicholson sees the wire, they are all breathlessly waiting for the moment and in comes this jackass,ON THEIR SIDE, pulling up the wire. I believe the boy goes to kill Nicholson and the commandant, but he gets shot instead, then Holden goes floundering across the river. You've come so far with them through the movie, you can't believe it will all be screwed up by Nicholson. And then Holden is shot, bullets are whizzing by and in the middle of it all is Guinness, having this moment of still (quiet) self revelation. And it happens! He's got it! He suddenly realizes what he's been doing.... he turns to act, to change the outcome, because he knows that what he's done is wrong, maybe even evil, but is shot in this moment of self awareness. His very last act, the very final thing he does, and he's dead already, before it happens, is to fall on that plunger. It's an accident, redeeming him, but it doesn't matter. It's beautifully illustrative of the madness of war. It's just plain beautiful.*

>

>

> And that is just plain beautiful. Nicely done!

 

Thank you. blush. I meant at the end that none of it matters, the bridge doesn't matter, the attempt to blow it doesn't matter, and Nocholson's change of heart doesn't matter. He's dead, they are all dead. Kind of like the end of THE TRAIN... does any of it matter when everyone is dead at the end? But the way Lean gets all this across, so much at stake, and nothing at stake is BRILLIANT.

 

It took me years to really understand this movie. I didn't like it at all when I first saw it. It opens up the way only a few other films do on each subsequent viewing. Lawrence of Arabia does too, but not as much. They are kind of like twin films to me.

 

> I felt more for Shears (William Holden) at the end. The guy escapes Hell only to "volunteer" to go back. There's no way he wanted to be there, yet he gets caught up in the moment and does the right thing. And he ends up getting it in the end. Amazing.

 

Yes, that's the mess of it all, isn't it? The guy who doesn't want to be there ends up being the hero, etc etc etc. It's all so twisted. My favorite character is Jack Hawkins. I don't particularly like Holden's character. James Donald is the character I am most like. I really like him as an actor as well.

 

> The tension in the final scene is spectacular. Talk about utilizing drama to its fullest. And I love that Lean just leaves us there.

 

Yes, that's the best part, because where are you going to go? Best use of music for an ending as well, the music just quietly fades up.... into this military march that just gets louder and louder. I always love ironic use of music.

 

> I'm glad I watched *Grand Illusion* before *The Bridge on the River Kwai*, because they are fairly similar.

 

 

It's true! I never think of them together but you are completely right. I'm quite sure Lean must have been influenced by it at least politically.

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Jan 23, 2013 1:40 PM

[FrankGrimes]

*Mary's just out and out hilarious! Her timing is impeccable, love the way she drops some lines and wails others. It's the ones she drops that really crack me up.*

 

I figured that you liked her audacity. She seems the happiest of the bunch, actually. Well, until the end.

 

*Paulette is golden in this movie. The voice of reason, albeit a golddigger's reason. She's the best she ever was here. I just like her complete disregard of what other people think of her. Shes a gem.*

 

She wanted to take off, initially. Was that fear or guilt? I wasn't sure.

 

*And Joan Fontaine is this sweet thing! She's silly, too easily swayed by others, but it's hard to carry that off, really hard, so I like her very much for playing the hardest role in the whole movie and doing it well. And she's actually funny.*

 

She really doesn't fit with that group. But there's always a tag-along like that. The sweet one.

 

*I like Edith a lot.*

 

She really didn't go along with what everyone was saying. You could see she thought it was all foolish. Yet, there she still is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*That's funny! I can't get over that you have a black and white side.*

 

No, no. What I'm saying is that Nicholson is too "black and white" for me. It's those types I have issues with. Those who have their rules (and their pride attached to them) and choose those rules over people. Both Nicholson and Thursday are such characters. I hardly ever have any sympathy for them.

 

*Thank you. blush. I meant at the end that none of it matters, the bridge doesn't matter, the attempt to blow it doesn't matter, and Nocholson's change of heart doesn't matter. He's dead, they are all dead.*

 

Something always matters to someone. The blowing up of the bridge did matter just as building it mattered, too. It's the people who died during the process that ultimately don't matter. That's the madness.

 

*It took me years to really understand this movie. I didn't like it at all when I first saw it. It opens up the way only a few other films do on each subsequent viewing. Lawrence of Arabia does too, but not as much. They are kind of like twin films to me.*

 

That's another I've yet to watch. I'm sure I'll eventually get to it. I have greater worries with that one. But I do like David Lean.

 

*Yes, that's the mess of it all, isn't it? The guy who doesn't want to be there ends up being the hero, etc etc etc. It's all so twisted. My favorite character is Jack Hawkins. I don't particularly like Holden's character. James Donald is the character I am most like. I really like him as an actor as well.*

 

What don't you like about Shears (William Holden)? He seems so "American." And I really liked that. Lean seemed to favor him to the British.

 

I definitely liked Major Clipton (James Donald). He's the voice of the reason in the film.

 

Why do you like Major Warden (Jack Hawkins) the most? I have issues with him.

 

*Yes, that's the best part, because where are you going to go? Best use of music for an ending as well, the music just quietly fades up.... into this military march that just gets louder and louder. I always love ironic use of music.*

 

You're very right about that. The irony is powerful.

 

*It's true! I never think of them together but you are completely right. I'm quite sure Lean must have been influenced by it at least politically.*

 

Nicholson (Alec Guinness) and Saito (Sessue Hayakawa) are rather similar to Boeldieu (Pierre Fresnay) and Rauffenstein (Erich von Stroheim). Shears is similar to Marechal (Jean Gabin).

[JackFavell]

We have a chorus concert tonight and I have to get everyone ready, but I really want to respond to you. I'll try afterward if I'm not too wiped out. I've spent far too much time on the boards today, and should have been getting things done. But I loved every minute of it! If I don't get back tonight, I'll be on tomorrow.

[FrankGrimes]

Sounds fun! I hope you have a good time. And don't worry about getting back on the board if you are tired. Rest is best!

 

 

[MissGoddess]

I thought Paulette was definitely a gold-digger, but I got the feeling she'd never betray a friend or be phony, that's why I liked her. I also liked the little "lamb", Joan Fontaine. Like Jackie said, it's a tough part but she comes off genuinely sweet and truly a lamb among she-wolves.

 

I love von Stroheim in *Grand Illusion*. It has been a long while since I saw the movie, but I never forgot how he was with the little flower. That was the touch that finished me.

 

[FrankGrimes]

*I thought Paulette was definitely a gold-digger, but I got the feeling she'd never betray a friend or be phony, that's why I liked her.*

 

That's a good way of putting it. She really did seem less two-faced.

 

*I also liked the little "lamb", Joan Fontaine. Like Jackie said, it's a tough part but she comes off genuinely sweet and truly a lamb among she-wolves. *

 

And Joan could play such a girl in her sleep. I liked Mary because she was a family woman who really didn't go for the gossip. It was tougher to see her hurt. I also liked how the generations are represented with her. Her mother and her daughter play prominent roles. But, again, the point of the film is the dialogue.

 

*I love von Stroheim in Grand Illusion. It has been a long while since I saw the movie, but I never forgot how he was with the little flower. That was the touch that finished me.*

 

It's a beautiful moment; the best in the film. He had such a great respect for the opposing officers of standing, such as Boeldieu. You can see the influence the film had on future films, such as *The Journey*. *Mister Roberts* went the opposite way of von Rauffenstein and his rose.

 

 

*The Bridge on the River Kwai* has a similar moment, which is my favorite moment in the film. It's when Saito breaks down and cries.

[MissGoddess]

> It's a beautiful moment; the best in the film. He had such a great respect for the opposing officers of standing, such as Boeldieu. You can see the influence the film had on future films, such as *The Journey*. *Mister Roberts* went the opposite way of von Rauffenstein and his rose.

>

 

*Mister Roberts* is more like Bligh, or Thursday run amok, a commander with a streak of sadism. I don't believe Nicholson was a sadist, though perhaps a bit of a masochist.

 

At some point, you should also see *All Quiet on the Western Front*, which I believe belongs up there with these films. It's extremely poignant and even-handed...and has a beautiful message.

 

>

> *The Bridge on the River Kwai* has a similar moment, which is my favorite moment in the film. It's when Saito breaks down and cries.

>

 

I don't remember that one as clearly.

[JackFavell]

Ah yes, All Quiet on the Western Front is a beautiful film.

 

I do believe that Nicholson was a masochist, and that there is a streak of that in many military men of his type. There are hints in Lawrence of Arabia too, of a perverse sense of pleasure in pain.

[movieman1957]

I don't think Nicholson is a masochist either. I think he is a perfectionist. When he is asked if the men are maybe doing too good a job on the bridge he dismisses the implication immediately. It never occurs to him that he may really be helping the enemy. He is so concerned about the bridge because he has taken responsibility for it. To him that means doing it right and not about the bigger picture of it.

[MissGoddess]

it can be a fine line between the two. sitting in that sweatbox past the point of reason to me was was where he crossed that line.

[JackFavell]

> I love von Stroheim in *Grand Illusion*. It has been a long while since I saw the movie, but I never forgot how he was with the little flower. That was the touch that finished me.

>

>

>

 

I was very moved by von Stroheim in this film, he's outstanding. Between him and Fresnay.... :_|

 

>*"You can't see borders. They are man-made. Nature couldn't care less."*

 

Were it not for some borders painted on a map, *von Stroheim* and *Fresnay* would be friends. These lost men, they always get to me. The ones who are out of step with their times or their duty. *Fresnay* is marvelous, the type of man to thrust you away, make you believe it isn't personal... he's really something. I can't put my finger on what it is about him. I've liked every movie I've ever seen him in. He's a brilliantly quiet, ascetic actor, not always likable, but infinitely deep. I think he could do anything, make you believe anything at all, within his thoughtful range. He's superb at complex emotion, hidden things, things you never would dream of as an actor. I think he underplays more than any other actor I've ever seen. Quite the contrary from most actors, it almost makes you wonder why he is an actor. He's very similar to Alec Guinness, I think even more refined. I can see the connection.

 

I really enjoyed *Gabin* here, he's marvelous. He draws your eye. I haven't liked him much except in *Gueule d'Amour.* But here, you can feel the nerve endings jumping, he's so pent up and crazy to get out. He's a man, a real man with a real man's wants and needs. This was so rare in movies, I think that he stands out. I really liked him, as much as you can like a man who is a survivor. He's strong, too strong to take any prisoners, so to speak. He's mistrustful and yet, look here, borders become unimportant to him as well, we see from his close friendship forged through trial with Dalio. Do you suppose this is the one good product of war?

 

*Dalio* reminds me how GREAT an actor he was, so expressive, every flicker on his face registers with me strongly. I absolutely LOVE him. He can deliver a line with such panache, not even trying. He's incredibly relaxed on camera. I imagine him being exactly the same off the set. He deserved a much better career, as did Von Stroheim. Both men ended up in these nothing roles, when they were capable of this? Oh it is a messed up world. The scene in the snow, when Dalio and Gabin fight, Dalio brought me to tears. I felt his pain, heartache. What it must have been to be a jew in France during the war, I cannot possible imagine. Thank GOODNESS we have his films! It's remarkable that he had these few wonderful roles to showcase his immense talent. He could have so easily been one of the casualties of the movies. His Rosenthal was the character I liked best.

 

But *von Stroheim* gets all the props in the end. He's incredible... his sadness, deep as the metal that holds his body together. The way he holds himself, literally to keep himself from falling apart. He will never recover from the inner wounds suffered through war, the killing of his best friend, the only man who was like him. Though the outer wounds still haven't finished him, as they should have, he now carries emotional scars that are far deeper than anything he's ever known. He's the walking embodiment of what war does to a man, and it's heartbreaking. He's the last flower, or perhaps the last plant, with no flower to ease his pain. Alone.

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Jan 24, 2013 1:51 PM

[MissGoddess]

That was so moving, Jackie. You really brought the movie back to me. I have to watch it again! I'm blanking out on Fresney and his character. I remember Dalio and Gabin better. But most of all, I remember von Stroheim, it was the first I'd seen of the real actor, not just a Nazi caricature or Gloria Swanson's major-domo. Thanks for writing so well.

[JackFavell]

Thanks for letting me ramble on. I wish I could send you a copy, but alas it's only available for streaming and tomorrow it will disappear. I guess it really is a 'Grand Illusion'.

 

I remember being very taken with Von Stroheim as well, and now I see why. He's terribly good as an actor here. It's a wonderful fit, the role is filled with emotion, and it fits him better than anything else I've ever seen.

[MissGoddess]

"If I could save only one movie, it would be Grand Illusion." Orson Welles.

 

I had recorded it from the 15th Anniversary special because one of the guest programmers had chosen it for their selection, but the disc is missing, I have no idea what I did with it. Rats.

 

by the way, what is "the grand illusion" in the movie?

 

Edited by: MissGoddess on Jan 24, 2013 6:16 PM

[JackFavell]

I don't actually know.

 

I personally take it to mean that it's an illusion that there are boundaries and distinctions between men... by class, by race or by any other demarcation. but that's simply my opinion.

 

This might help:

 

[SansFin]

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> "If I could save only one movie, it would be *Grand Illusion.*" Orson Welles.

 

That quote reminds me of the reviewer who said: "If you see only one movie this year ... you should get out more."

 

> by the way, what is "the grand illusion" in the movie?

 

It was popular at the time to believe that it was an illusion that a war could be won in real terms. There was a book of similar title on economic theory that showed how the winners would always also lose.

 

The growing sentiment in the world just prior to World War I was that there would be fewer wars in the future and they would be small ones because it no longer made sense to have wars.

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=SansFin wrote:}{quote}

> > by the way, what is "the grand illusion" in the movie? It was popular at the time to believe that it was an illusion that a war could be won in real terms. There was a book of similar title on economic theory that showed how the winners would always also lose.

>

> The growing sentiment in the world just prior to World War I was that there would be fewer wars in the future and they would be small ones because it no longer made sense to have wars.

 

Thanks, Sansfin. I figured it was something like that. It really is a timeless film in that aspect.

[FrankGrimes]

*Mister Roberts is more like Bligh, or Thursday run amok, a commander with a streak of sadism. I don't believe Nicholson was a sadist, though perhaps a bit of a masochist.*

 

I was comparing Captain Morton (James Cagney) and his plant with von Rauffenstein (Erich von Stroheim) and his rose. Each plant comes to represent something bigger.

 

*At some point, you should also see All Quiet on the Western Front, which I believe belongs up there with these films. It's extremely poignant and even-handed...and has a beautiful message.*

 

I'll look to record it on TCM next month or possibly buy the DVD.

 

*I don't remember that one as clearly.*

 

When Saito triumphs over Nicholson, Nicholson is greeted by all his comrades with cheers. Lean then cuts to Saito, who is crying in loneliness. Even though he's the one who made the defeat possible, he is deeply wounded by his decision. It's my favorite moment in the film. From that point on, Saito becomes the human warrior and Nicholson becomes the self-absorbed dictator.

[FrankGrimes]

*I was very moved by von Stroheim in this film, he's outstanding. Between him and Fresnay.... :_|*

 

von Stroheim is at his very best. He's such a gentleman. One that is full of sadness. The respect and love he has for Boeldieu is beautiful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I love about the above "rose" cap is seeing the snow in the background. The harsh world is just right outside the window from the cared-for flower.

 

 

*Were it not for some borders painted on a map, von Stroheim and Fresnay would be friends.*

 

 

Absolutely. It's the humanist view compared to the tribal.

 

 

*These lost men, they always get to me. The ones who are out of step with their times or their duty. Fresnay is marvelous, the type of man to thrust you away, make you believe it isn't personal... he's really something.*

 

 

He's very dignified in *Grand Illusion*. And I really liked the commentary on class and standing in the film. Boeldieu (Pierre Fresnay) is the aristocratic one whose view on war and life is that of a decency. You win in the same manner as you lose: chin up.

 

 

*I can't put my finger on what it is about him. I've liked every movie I've ever seen him in. He's a brilliantly quiet, ascetic actor, not always likable, but infinitely deep. I think he could do anything, make you believe anything at all, within his thoughtful range. He's superb at complex emotion, hidden things, things you never would dream of as an actor. I think he underplays more than any other actor I've ever seen. Quite the contrary from most actors, it almost makes you wonder why he is an actor. He's very similar to Alec Guinness, I think even more refined. I can see the connection.*

 

 

I've only seen him in two other films, so I'm very unfamiliar with him as an actor.

 

 

*I really enjoyed Gabin here, he's marvelous. He draws your eye. I haven't liked him much except in Gueule d'Amour. But here, you can feel the nerve endings jumping, he's so pent up and crazy to get out. He's a man, a real man with a real man's wants and needs. This was so rare in movies, I think that he stands out. I really liked him, as much as you can like a man who is a survivor. He's strong, too strong to take any prisoners, so to speak. He's mistrustful and yet, look here, borders become unimportant to him as well, we see from his close friendship forged through trial with Dalio. Do you suppose this is the one good product of war?*

 

 

I really like Gabin. I've liked him in everything that I've seen. He reminds me a lot of Spencer Tracy in the 30s. He's the "dock worker." There's some "Burt Lancaster" with him, too.

 

 

You raise a good point about the coming together of people from different walks of life via the military. It's much different than going to school, where it's all localized, for the most part.

 

 

*Dalio reminds me how GREAT an actor he was, so expressive, every flicker on his face registers with me strongly. I absolutely LOVE him. He can deliver a line with such panache, not even trying. He's incredibly relaxed on camera. I imagine him being exactly the same off the set. He deserved a much better career, as did Von Stroheim. Both men ended up in these nothing roles, when they were capable of this? Oh it is a messed up world. The scene in the snow, when Dalio and Gabin fight, Dalio brought me to tears. I felt his pain, heartache. What it must have been to be a jew in France during the war, I cannot possible imagine. Thank GOODNESS we have his films! It's remarkable that he had these few wonderful roles to showcase his immense talent. He could have so easily been one of the casualties of the movies. His Rosenthal was the character I liked best.*

 

 

The scenes between he and Marechal (Jean Gabin) in the final part of the film is nothing but lovely. They are both frustrated and angered by their existence and by each other but they cannot leave the other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*But von Stroheim gets all the props in the end. He's incredible... his sadness, deep as the metal that holds his body together. The way he holds himself, literally to keep himself from falling apart. He will never recover from the inner wounds suffered through war, the killing of his best friend, the only man who was like him. Though the outer wounds still haven't finished him, as they should have, he now carries emotional scars that are far deeper than anything he's ever known. He's the walking embodiment of what war does to a man, and it's heartbreaking. He's the last flower, or perhaps the last plant, with no flower to ease his pain. Alone.*

 

 

Now that was lovely. You captured it all so perfectly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MissGoddess]

Oh, I see now what you mean about the plants. Good catch!

 

The moment you mention with Saito is coming back to me. It was shattering. Leadership. It can seem so inspiring, only to lead to tragedy since we're all too human.