The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread

rohanaka · February 9, 2013

OH and PS: I MEANT to include this in my post and forgot.. ha..

heck if I know what "ecru" is

Well.. if you "ask Sherwin Williams.. they will tell you:

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/color/find-and-explore-colors/paint-colors-by-family/SW6135-ecru/

But as a former shoe store manager.. I would have leaned about two spaces to the left of that (what they are calling "Muslin") ha.

But to be honest.. I think that Ecru (and Ivory too) are among the more subjective colors out there.. so I do confess they very hard to "define" sometimes. ha. HENCE all the "fighting"

FrankGrimes · February 9, 2013

*But as a former shoe store manager.. I would have leaned about two spaces to the left of that (what they are calling "Muslin") ha.*

*But to be honest.. I think that Ecru (and Ivory too) are among the more subjective colors out there.. so I do confess they very hard to "define" sometimes. ha. HENCE all the "fighting" *

Such interior designing! 50 shades, indeed. I'm lucky to know the basic colors.

*We've had a bit of a roller coaster ride. It goes way cold.. and then bounces back for a few days and goes WAY to the other end of the spectrum (we even had upper 60's not long ago) and then it does another nose dive. We have had some snow but not as much as usual. And thankfully.. we did get some rain this past week (2-3 inches) so that was VERY welcome. It has been a bit of a weird einter to be sure.*

Our weather has been similar to yours, just delayed a day. We had a warm spell (reached 60... with rain) and then it immediately returned to 30 degrees. January was mostly mild. February has been on the cold side. Our average temp should be about 37, right now. The good news, it's now going to start going up. Woohoo!!

But like I said earlier, if our temps would have been colder, we would have received much more snow.

*I think you are right in that Lean was taking the long way to show us Nicholson... really I think it was BOTH men he was showing. Because the captive surpassed the captor.. and in the end becomes the captor himself. .even if the two men are the only ones who ever know it. The further Nicholson was puffed up.. the smaller Saito became. (at least in their own opinions of one another.) And really.. that is where the rubber met the road for both of them. To the outside world.. everyone MIGHT have thought that it looked like Saito was the one holding all the cards.. he held Nicholsons life in his hands..but really it was the other way around. (Saito had even told him if the bridge was not built on time.. he'd have to kill himself) and the line that Nicholson says at one point (when Saito asks him what would you do if you were me) really was the beginning of the end (as far as Saito's authority over Nicholson)*

That's correct. Nicholson had won Saito's trust. Saito wasn't nearly as confident and authoratative as he first projected. This is why he started to ring a little hollow to me. He started to resemble more of a comical figure, cartoonish.

*Nicholson says.. "I think I'd have to kill myself" ha.. and he said it in such a proper cool matter of fact "British" sort of way. And that was like a slap in the face. The balance of power had shifted. (even if they were the only two who knew it) Saito WOULD have killed himself out of shame. but only because it was expected by his culture.*

*But by the way Nicholson answers.. you can tell it was as if he was saying to him. "Well.. if I were as big a failure as YOU are.. I'd just have to kill myself" (with no cultural expectations involved) That is a huge difference.*

You're absolutely right. Lean is showing the differences in men and culture.

*Ha.. did I ever mention you are a movie watching machine!!!!!!!! :pI can't wait to see the list. I wonder if I have seen more than 2 of them?? ha.*

I'm pretty sure you have seen five of them. The rest is iffy.

*Ha.. good. I feel better now that I was not TOTALLY clueless about this movie. Now I wil l have to watch it for sure.. if only to see how it can have such a "marriage" theme without any "sweetheart" attatched. Hmmmmm....*

I'm associating "sweethearts" to the "stars and moon in your eyes" of dating and courtship. That's not marriage. If you're getting married with the idea it's going to be like dating and not the daily routine of life, you're in for a rude awakening. Most love stories are about the "stars and moon in your eyes." A film like *Summertime* is one with Kate. *The African Queen* is not this.

*Ha!!!!!!!!!! FAT chance. < <img class="jive-emoticon" src="http://forums.tcm.com/images/emoticons/silly.gif" border="0" alt=":p"/>I have two words for you.. ha... JANE AUSTEN! *

Those are love stories?! They seem like prissy woman tales about decorum and societal expectations!

*But having said THAT.. ha. I do confess that I tend to not get too interested in "sappy" or soggy love stories. .ha And I also do not always use the same dictionary to define the "L" word as some.. ha. so I might have a different opinion on some movies that are supposed to be "LOVE stories" but to me. .really are NOT.. but ha.. I freely admit. .others may not agree. So in THAT vein you may be right.. you may like some "love" stories more than I do.. ha. but then again.. *

Something does tell me I like love stories more than you, Mushy. But I believe *The African Queen* is your kind of love story. It's not about passions roaring, it's much deeper.

*HA! Oh great.. now I am going to have to wait to hear how awful you thought poor Gene was leaping and jumping and swordfighting around. ha. What.. do you have another 83 movies to watch first or something. :p *

Probably 8 more.

*Ha.. no need to crush HER... You just crushed ME!! Oh say it isn't SO!! < <img class="jive-emoticon" src="http://forums.tcm.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border="0" alt=":)"/>(though I do confess.. ha.. at least in that movie he DOES look a bit "toupee-ish" *

I never noticed such things prior to this board. So all of this is a new phenomenon to me. I had no idea John Wayne and Jimmy Stewart were wearing rugs until I got here. And I was 35 when I joined this board.

*OH for pizza sake. His DANCING is what I like MOST about him.. I can take or leave his singing. You really MUST see Singing in the Rain.. it is a total MASTERPIECE of dancing.. not just for him but for Donald and even Debbie too. (really!) Bur hey.. don't take it from me.. the KIDLING gives it two thumbs WAY up. ha. *

It's funny how I've gone from thinking I'd like Gene more than Fred to now the opposite. Gene is very physical and acrobatic. But Jackie was right, Fred is a lovemaker. That has won me over.

*Ha.. no worries there. < <img class="jive-emoticon" src="http://forums.tcm.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif" border="0" alt=":)"/>Oh someday we may watch it.. but NOT for a few years more at least. She only just turned 10. I want her to be old enough to have her own ideas and opinions firmly in place on certain topics (and not just rely on Mama and Daddy) to fill in the details before she tackles a story of that nature for the first time. She is gettint there gradually.. but she is not ready for something like a story of tis nature yet.*

I usually think a person doesn't develop their own critical thinking, they just look to follow in their family teachings. Now there are some who like to rebel, like myself. But I rebel with lots of things. But most just follow what their family taught them. And what I now tell myself is that I'd want my child to think for themselves, not just because I think one way or their mother thinks one way. My way isn't the right way, it's just my way. But most people believe their way is the right way. Lots of vanity. The only thing I would look to enforce with my child is respect for self, family, and others. That's the most important thing to me.

Homer Simpson said it best:

*I do know though that you are not alone in your fondness for this story.. it tends to be very revered in certain threads I have seen on this site over the years.. (hence another rason I just try to not go down that road.. I don't want to end up with any ROCKS hidden in the mud that is bound to fly should some people disagree with what I may or may not say) HA. *

I don't think I've ever seen it discussed, really. I believe I may have discussed it some on the board. What I love about Hornbeck (Gene Kelly) is that he's the funniest guy in the film. He's also the most cruel, which makes him the worst of people in the film. Still, he cracks me up. Henry Drummond (Spencer Tracy) is one of my film heroes. It is he and Juror # 8 (Henry Fonda) where you will find a lot of "me."

*Oh I do agree.. and she tends to have some very specific favorites for her "social" circle of girls her age.. ha. Though these are books an dnot movies. she is VERY into Nancy Drew.. (and that is something she stumbled into almost compltely on her own.. ha. because though I do like my "detective" stories.. Mama was no big "nancy" fan as a kid) But some of her friends like Nancy too.. so she is enjoying that.*

I'm surprised you didn't like "Nancy Drew." You're quite the detective. It seems like you would play her part!

*And gettng back to movies. she also likes some of the Disney Pixar movies (Cars and Cars 2 would likely be at the top for those) and.. sigh.. I guess we have sort of given up the "princess" Disney stories. Ha.. its the end of the era on that I guess. ha.*

She is you! I can also tell Jackie's daughter is very similar to her. I think it's wonderful because it shows how much your daughters love and trust you both. Come on teen years!

*Well it is in one way.. ha.. but not in another.. they do tend to snort and huff and puff.. and again. I have to say that it can be hard to watch.. but I think to them. .if they are well cared for horses.. they seem to like the challenge. (but I confess that may be my innocent naive way of looking at it)*

Oh, I'm sure they are all right. It's just one of those things that I'd probably struggle with.

*Ha. and HE was loving every minute of it. ha Did you see the look on his face!! ha. He didn't just "like the challenge" ha.. He didn't want it to END. .ha. He was ready to pick that tractor up and walk it to keep going. "Struggling" indeed.*

It felt like he was under the microscope and didn't know what the heck was going on!

rohanaka · February 9, 2013

I'm lucky to know the basic colors

Ha.. don't even get me STARTED on RED. (when does it stop being red.. and turn to orange.. or pink!) SO many choices!!!!!!!!!

We had a warm spell (reached 60... with rain) and then it immediately returned to 30 degrees

30's are tolerable.. if you have to have winter temps.. and we've had a spell of 30-ish weather.. but I think we have had MORE of teens and lo 20's.. and then BOOM up to the 40's and 50's again.. and then slam.. back down to the freezer. The week it was so awful (that I mentioned to you a few posts ago) we were all the way down to low single digits (for actual temps.. plus LOWER with a windchill) for several days in fact. Bah. Winter.

Ha.. have you noticed "Bah" is my new favorite word. Must be all the talk you had earlier this winter w/ ACC and Scrooge. ha. }

If you're getting married with the idea it's going to be like dating and not the daily routine of life, you're in for a rude awakening. Most love stories are about the "stars and moon in your eyes

ha.. yes.. you are right.. if you are talking strictly movies like that.. then yes.. you likely DO like them more than me..... especially "Summertime" and ha.. Now Voyager.. and oh me.. lets just not GO down those love-laden roads. right now.. ha. :)And that is not to say that I do not like these movies.. because I do.. at least in part. But NOT for the "love" story aspect.. because ha.. if I have to call them "love" stories.. my eyes are begging me to roll any second now. HA (Kinda like getting hung up on the difference between ivory.. and ECRU ha. But there IS a difference.. at least for me)

Though I do confess that they are likely "love stories.. at least in the most basic definition of the word that gets used for purposes of defining genre in film and story telling.

They seem like prissy woman tales about decorum and societal expectations

Well yeah.. there is level of that sometimes too.. ha. But HEY.. the "love" story angel makes up for it!

Gene is very physical and acrobatic. But Jackie was right, Fred is a lovemaker. That has won me over

Ha.. ok. fair enough YOU win.. I pass the "mushy love story lover" title over to you.. hands down.

I had no idea John Wayne and Jimmy Stewart were wearing rugs until I got here

AAAGGH. What?????????? First Gene Kelly and NOW the Duke and Jimmy too!!!!!!!!!!!! (no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ha. OH I am so disillusioned. ha.

Ok.. I confess I HAVE heard that about the Duke.. but I just assumed he was doing that so his cowboy hat would fit better.. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!) Kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!! But JIMMY?????????? I had no idea.. oh the shock.. oh the surpise.. who KNEW????????

I usually think a person doesn't develop their own critical thinking, they just look to follow in their family teachings

I have to disagree with you.. I think family IS an important influence.. and some people never go beyond that teaching. But I DO think that many others do go beyond it.. because of what you say right here: there are some who like to rebel, like myself. But I rebel with lots of things

Because I can tell you too that I also "rebelled" but not in the way you might think I tend to be far more conservative than most members of my family.. including and perhaps especially my parents) I have MUCH different ideas and ideals from them on many subjects. And don't get me wrong.. they are very nice people.. but we just think very differently on a lot of topics.. especially regarding children and family and behaviors, etc.

I think more people rebel than don't. You can't blame (or even credit) your parents for the way you end up as an adult forever. Sooner or later you become YOU because of choices Y OU choose to make. And yes.. family DOES have a LOT to do with it. But it is not the only teacher.

And I base that off of how influential our culture is. Especially in THIS era we live in.. where information is EVERYWHERE and kids have greater and greater access to all SORTS OF ideas and philosophies and social forms of expressoin.

It is a VERY hard thing for a parent (at least THIS parent) to release their child into "the world" and let them be exposed to ideas and morals that may or may not (usaually in my case may not) reflect the ideas and morals that have been instilled at home. And I think the reason it is hard is because if it were true that most folks just rely on family teaching for critical thinking.. I don't think we would have such a "culture war" going on in our society right now.

Despite all the hard work a parent might do.. there is a LOT to be said for the influence of all the "rebels" out there.. for good or for bad, ha.. though I do have to quote Tom Petty here.. ha. because I think MANY of them are "Rebels without a CLUE"

But then.. that would be only my opinion.. ha.

At any rate.. and with all joking aside.. having said that.. despite how hard it is to turn her loose.. it is for these reasons (all the rebellion, etc) that I DO understand how important it is that she learn to think for herself.

And yes.. I do confess we influence her.. and yes.. ha.. she IS very "like' us in how she thinks along certain subjects to be certain (especially since she is still young). But as she grows.. we have also begun asking her questions.. as in WHY do you like this or that.. and what do you think about what that person did or said.. and why. And it has been interesting to hear some of her answers as she is discovering that we are giving her the freedom to like or not like things for herself. I can tell she already is a bit of a deep thinker about some things even for a 10 yr old. So I may have my work cut out for me.. ha when she gets to that "rebel' age. Ha.. but I am enjoying getting to watch her "grow" into the person she will be someday. She is a work in progress.. ha.. but hey.. aren't we all.

I would look to enforce with my child is respect for self, family, and others

Well even coming from our different points of view on many subjects, I see that we have a lot in common.. that is a foundational principle in our home for sure.. one that is not always as easy as it sounds.. but one I hope we have tried to instill in her for sure.

I don't think I've ever seen it discussed, really. I believe I may have discussed it some on the board

I don't remember exactly where I saw it.. but a year or two ago.. maybe longer I remember a very specific thread on it.. I don't know if you posted in it or not. Lets just say I had a LOT to say.. but I don't remember saying it. ha. (I don't THINK I did anyway.. I wanted to.. but I remember thinking at the time that I likely would need to just keep my own thoughts to myself. If I did speak up.. ha.. I hope it was respectful.)

What I love about Hornbeck (Gene Kelly) is that he's the funniest guy in the film. He's also the most cruel which makes him the worst of people in the film

He is portrayed that way.. yes, I agree. Ha.. and that is all I will say... except for mayb just: lalalalalalallalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala. (that is me sticking my fingers in my ears and singing so I won't get bogged down in discussing this movie.. I can feel the rocks hitting me with all the mud already.. ha.

You're quite the detective. It seems like you would play her part

Ha.. welll I think when I was the right age to appreciate her.. I was busy with other "stuff" and just did not get interested.. but by the time I MIGHT have gotten interested in her books.. I was too old. Alas. Maybe I should go and read them now.. if only to see what the kidling likes about them all. ha.

Come on teen years

Nooooooooooo!!!!!

It felt like he was under the microscope and didn't know what the heck was going on

OH good gravy.. go back and watch it again.. ha.

FrankGrimes · February 9, 2013

*Ha.. don't even get me STARTED on RED. (when does it stop being red.. and turn to orange.. or pink!) SO many choices!!!!!!!!! *

If it has anything to do with decisions about colors, I'm probably one of the last people to ask.

*30's are tolerable.. if you have to have winter temps.. and we've had a spell of 30-ish weather.. but I think we have had MORE of teens and lo 20's.. and then BOOM up to the 40's and 50's again.. and then slam.. back down to the freezer. The week it was so awful (that I mentioned to you a few posts ago) we were all the way down to low single digits (for actual temps.. plus LOWER with a windchill) for several days in fact. Bah. Winter.*

Wow! You've had a much colder winter than us. I'd say the last three weeks or so have been on the colder side. But we only had a day or two of in the teens.

*Ha.. have you noticed "Bah" is my new favorite word. Must be all the talk you had earlier this winter w/ ACC and Scrooge. ha. }*

*ha.. yes.. you are right.. if you are talking strictly movies like that.. then yes.. you likely DO like them more than me..... especially "Summertime" and ha.. Now Voyager.. and oh me.. lets just not GO down those love-laden roads. right now.. ha. :)And that is not to say that I do not like these movies.. because I do.. at least in part. But NOT for the "love" story aspect.. because ha.. if I have to call them "love" stories.. my eyes are begging me to roll any second now. HA (Kinda like getting hung up on the difference between ivory.. and ECRU ha. But there IS a difference.. at least for me)*

*Though I do confess that they are likely "love stories.. at least in the most basic definition of the word that gets used for purposes of defining genre in film and story telling. *

I'm guessing you are speaking moralistic because there are married men involved in those two films. I feel love is an emotion, not a defined rule. We try to force love into a box when it doesn't always fit.

*Ha.. ok. fair enough YOU win.. I pass the "mushy love story lover" title over to you.. hands down. *

That made me laugh!

*AAAGGH. What?????????? First Gene Kelly and NOW the Duke and Jimmy too!!!!!!!!!!!! (no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ha. OH I am so disillusioned. ha. *

*Ok.. I confess I HAVE heard that about the Duke.. but I just assumed he was doing that so his cowboy hat would fit better.. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!) :DKidding!!!!!!!!!!!!! But JIMMY?????????? I had no idea.. oh the shock.. oh the surpise.. who KNEW???????? *

And I didn't know any of that when I arrived here. I'm a very naive person. I'm very much a boy.

*Because I can tell you too that I also "rebelled" but not in the way you might think I tend to be far more conservative than most members of my family.. including and perhaps especially my parents) I have MUCH different ideas and ideals from them on many subjects. And don't get me wrong.. they are very nice people.. but we just think very differently on a lot of topics.. especially regarding children and family and behaviors, etc.*

That sounds fascinating! I would have thought you just followed in your father's footsteps because I sense a lot of your dad with you. I'm most like my father in terms of my shyness and the want to avoid the spotlight and confrontation. But in terms of beliefs and interests, I'm not like him. It's funny how people in my area always assume you are like them. I just let them live with their delusions. The ones who actually ask my opinion are surprised to find I'm much different than them.

*I think more people rebel than don't. You can't blame (or even credit) your parents for the way you end up as an adult forever. Sooner or later you become YOU because of choices Y OU choose to make. And yes.. family DOES have a LOT to do with it. But it is not the only teacher.*

That depends on what you consider important in life and how deeply you care about things. I can tell you most people I know just carry their parents' beliefs and teachings with them. That's not to say they don't like different things when it comes to entertainment, foods, etc. I'm talking core beliefs. Most just carry it over. To actually believe different than your parents takes some nerve.

*And I base that off of how influential our culture is. Especially in THIS era we live in.. where information is EVERYWHERE and kids have greater and greater access to all SORTS OF ideas and philosophies and social forms of expressoin.*

To me, that's a great positive about today's world. The broader, the better. What I don't like is the selfishness.

But don't worry, I'm often told I'm wrong as wrong can be by someone who is snippy.

*It is a VERY hard thing for a parent (at least THIS parent) to release their child into "the world" and let them be exposed to ideas and morals that may or may not (usaually in my case may not) reflect the ideas and morals that have been instilled at home. And I think the reason it is hard is because if it were true that most folks just rely on family teaching for critical thinking.. I don't think we would have such a "culture war" going on in our society right now.*

But isn't that saying your child needs to be like you and that you are right? I would want my child to be exposed to different ideas and cultures. And if I've done a good job with parenting, my child should be able to stand up for who they are and not worry about being pressured into "fitting in."

*Despite all the hard work a parent might do.. there is a LOT to be said for the influence of all the "rebels" out there.. for good or for bad, ha.. though I do have to quote Tom Petty here.. ha. because I think MANY of them are "Rebels without a CLUE" *

But your child should be able to handle all of that. Once they are taught what is right or wrong, then it's up to them to carry that through.

One of the biggest failings of parents is truly knowing who their kids are. Many parents think their kids are how they wish to see them, not how they really are. They can't get past their own egos to know the truth. Or they just aren't that perceptive. You are not this.

One of my little "tests" with parents is to see how they handle a critique of their child. I'm talking an honest one, not a false one. If they can't handle a simple critique, you know they've got blinders on and they probably have no idea how their child really is. And I'd say many parents are this way. Why? Because they take a critique of their child as a critique of them. "How dare you say that about me!" Very selfish and ego-driven.

*At any rate.. and with all joking aside.. having said that.. despite how hard it is to turn her loose.. it is for these reasons (all the rebellion, etc) that I DO understand how important it is that she learn to think for herself.*

Absolutely. I don't think you have anything to worry about with your daughter. She seems to be a lot like you.

*And yes.. I do confess we influence her.. and yes.. ha.. she IS very "like' us in how she thinks along certain subjects to be certain (especially since she is still young). But as she grows.. we have also begun asking her questions.. as in WHY do you like this or that.. and what do you think about what that person did or said.. and why. And it has been interesting to hear some of her answers as she is discovering that we are giving her the freedom to like or not like things for herself. I can tell she already is a bit of a deep thinker about some things even for a 10 yr old. So I may have my work cut out for me.. ha when she gets to that "rebel' age. Ha.. but I am enjoying getting to watch her "grow" into the person she will be someday. She is a work in progress.. ha.. but hey.. aren't we all.*

That's fantastic! I like asking questions. You learn so much by doing so. Not only in the answers you get, but in how the answers are given.

All parents are influential with their children. Some of it is direct, a lot is indirect. How parents react to different things within the home rubs off. The interaction between parents or lackthereof rubs off.

And I've seen similar parenting produce different results. The Catholic family in my family has a strict (feared) patriarch and all of them grew up just exactly how their parents wished them to be. There was zero rebellion. I've seen others completely rebel against such strict control. My cousin's ex-husband grew up in a cold family that preached great responsibility. He's precisely that. My cousin grew up in a fairly frugal family and she is rebelling against her upbringing. She spends like crazy. Her younger brother is frugal.

*Well even coming from our different points of view on many subjects, I see that we have a lot in common.. that is a foundational principle in our home for sure.. one that is not always as easy as it sounds.. but one I hope we have tried to instill in her for sure.*

Respect is becoming a lost value in our society. Self-respect is the hardest thing to instill in a person. It's something that I feel is extremely valuable, especially with young girls. Love can really reach another level, a true level, when respect is involved. How you treat others has a lot to do with respect. But it seems today that everyone feels they are in the right. It's about self.

*I don't remember exactly where I saw it.. but a year or two ago.. maybe longer I remember a very specific thread on it.. I don't know if you posted in it or not. Lets just say I had a LOT to say.. but I don't remember saying it. ha. (I don't THINK I did anyway.. I wanted to.. but I remember thinking at the time that I likely would need to just keep my own thoughts to myself. If I did speak up.. ha.. I hope it was respectful.) *

And that's you being the respectful person that you are.

*Ha.. welll I think when I was the right age to appreciate her.. I was busy with other "stuff" and just did not get interested.. but by the time I MIGHT have gotten interested in her books.. I was too old. Alas. Maybe I should go and read them now.. if only to see what the kidling likes about them all. ha.*

You probably should! Have you asked her what she likes about them?

* Come on teen years*

*Nooooooooooo!!!!! *

My cousin's daughter turns 13 in March. She is now starting to show great interest in boys and she has her first real crush. She's also constantly texting and using Instagram and the like. That's the dangers of today. The good news about her is that she's not one to do things she doesn't want to do. She's very self-conscious and worried to do wrong and feel embarrassed. I know all of this, personally. Now if she were flirtatious and looking to be accepted, I would be worried. My sister-in-law's oldest daughter is more of this. She just turned 11. I worry about her in the future.

rohanaka · February 10, 2013

If it has anything to do with decisions about colors, I'm probably one of the last people to ask

Ha.. and I am likely right behind you. I like to give "relevant" descriptions for colors.. ha. As in.. if I say something like "Sprite Bottle Green" you will know EXACTLY the color I mean. But alas.. not all colors FIT into a shopping cart. ha. So I have to look for OTHER ways to describe them. That is probably why the walls on my house are all likely the most boring shade of "cream" or "off white" ha.. I USED to just go with WHITE (because I figured it was safer) but then I decided hmm.. Cream.. yeah, let's take a walk on the wild side. Oh yeah.. we live on the edge around here. HA.

The kidling would LOVE to have a "purple" room. (that is her LATEST favorite color..she used to just be a "PINK" kinda gal. (and I confess.. I may have been just because that is the color I usually chose for her as a baby) but for whatever reason, purple is the new PINK for her lately ha. I am still trying to wrap my mind around how PURPLE she can go if we do decide to paint her room that color.. but I think we are going to end up there.. someday. ha. (Hey.. maybe by the time I make up my mind to let her do it.. and she picks out a shade she likes.. ha.. she'll have moved on to some OTHER color and maybe purple won't matter anymore. HA.)

I'm guessing you are speaking moralistic because there are married men involved in those two films

Well yes.. if we are sticking with just those two titles, I guess morals do come into play. (because I really do have a thing about movies or stories that appear to "glorify" adultery) But it goes beyond just "morals". To me, I think it is more about understanding what it means to truly love a person in a "life long" and lasting sort of way. I think a lot of time people confuse "passion" with love. And they burn brightly maybe even for a very long time.. but really only have a "concept" of what a deeper LOVE for someone ought to look like. They are more or less basing their happiness on a lesser "imitation" of love, without any real foundation under it. (and that is why so often "love stories" end in heartbreak)

But ha.. I know you know that I have already blabbed on all this on here before, ha. so I won't drag you down that road again. Its getting bumpy and muddy enough already.

I feel love is an emotion, not a defined rule. We try to force love into a box when it doesn't always fit

Hmm.. yes, I can see that there is a level of "emotion" attached to that word.. but to me.. lasting and abiding love is more. Emotions change and can wax and wane... a lot. But it takes something deeper to weather the harder moments of "life" together (ha.. another "L" word)

That sounds fascinating! I would have thought you just followed in your father's footsteps because I sense a lot of your dad with you

Oh you would be right. At least partially. I DO have a lot of his "personality" but that is not the same thing. Because again.. he and I have very different opinions about a LOT of issues that we both feel very strongly about. (ha.. for example, he and you have a lot in common when it comes to.. hmm.. say the "Hell's Hinges" sort of topics. ha.) But you are right.. we are similar in (at least some ways) with regards to our personality.

He is a debater.. and a talker.. and a VERY long winded "explainer" ha.. so maybe those are the things I have most in common with him.

And for the record, I also have a lot of my mom in me too, (but again, we are talking more "personality" rather than "critical thinking skills" for life issues.

She is very "tenderhearted" and will often go above and beyond to try and find the "bright side' even if there is no brightside to be found. ha. And she only wants to see the "good" in people. And this is likely where I am both the most AND the least like her.. all at the same time. ha. Because I can understand why she feels that way.. but I also am honest enough to know she is fooling herself a lot of the time. She doesn't want to believe that the people she cares for could do anything bad. (only BAD people do bad things and no one she loves is a bad person).

But the reality is... we have had a few "black sheep" moments in our family.. (especially extended family) and while I DO have compassion for those who make mistakes..and end up in rough circumstances because of it.. I also get pretty agitated when I see someone I care for headed down a road I know is going to lead to disaster.. and they refuse to "get a clue" that they need to stop and go the other way.

The difference is.. she would never TELL them that.. I will.. if they ask me.

Which is where my DAD starts to comes out in me again.. ha.(but ha.. I am nicer than he is.. ha. (again.. my mother's side) I don't go about spouting to them what I think they should do.. and telling them they are stupid if they don't listen.. ha. That rarely seems to go over well.And yet.. ha.. sometimes he still does it.)

I always say.. I am a mix of both. I can tell you whatever it is I think you need to hear.. and then give you a hug when I am finished. ha.

That depends on what you consider important in life and how deeply you care about things. I can tell you most people I know just carry their parents' beliefs and teachings with them. That's not to say they don't like different things when it comes to entertainment, foods, etc. I'm talking core beliefs. Most just carry it over. To actually believe different than your parents takes some nerve

Well, nerve is all in your perspective. To me I think it can often be easy to just forget what you don't want to remember (about how you were raised) if it suits the moment. But it takes MORE nerve to hold on to what you know is right.. when everyone around you has chosen a different path. And that can either happen BECAUSE your parents taught you well.. or despite the fact they didn't. It really is up to each person to stand (or fall) on his own, eventually. No matter what their parents did or didn't teach them. But having said that.. again.. I DO concede that many are as you say... simply following their parent's way of teaching.. some blindly, because it is all they know.. but I think many others do so out of a conscious choice because they truly believe (after looking at life) that it is the right way to choose. They MIGHT have chosen a different path.. but kept what their parents taught them because they feel it is the best way to go.

To me, that's a great positive about today's world. The broader, the better. What I don't like is the selfishness

HA. we seem to have a different dictionary

Because again.. it all depends on how you view things. Because I tend to look at the whole "broad is the way that leads to destruction" thing in the Bible and take it seriously. ha. (so that is where the Black and White of life creeps in on me) I think that sometimes it is a-ok to choose whatever path you want and make up your own mind.. as long as it is an "optional" path. (hey.. I admit it... some things in life really ARE gray.. I mean GREY ha) But there are "rights and wrongs" in life too (the black and white) And to me.. by definition, selfishness is in chosing a path just because you want it.. without regard for how anyone else may feel or think about it no matter if it is right or wrong. But having said all that.. I will admit to you that I can see how some might think it was a "brave" or a "good" thing for some to just make their own choice and find their own way.. it can be a fine line sometimes. (It really does depend a lot on what "world view" you may be coming from)

But your child should be able to handle all of that. Once they are taught what is right or wrong, then it's up to them to carry that through

Ha.. now that sounds like something I would say. So you do think it is important for parents to teach their children to follow good and guiding principles of right and wrong. (and reinforce them in a way that will help the child to learn from them enough to "carry that through" into adulthood.) Hmm.. I think our dictionaries are closer than you may think.

One of my little "tests" with parents is to see how they handle a critique of their child. I'm talking an honest one, not a false one. If they can't handle a simple critique, you know they've got blinders on and they probably have no idea how their child really is. And I'd say many parents are this way. Why? Because they take a critique of their child as a critique of them. "How dare you say that about me!" Very selfish and ego-driven

OH absolutely. I have seen it many times, having worked with and around children (in a variety of capacities) off and on for many years. A lot of parents only want to hear the GOOD and never the bad.. but every kid has something sometime that needs to be dealt with. I have yet to meet one yet that did not. And it is very telling when you get parents who will or won't work with you on that.. just what they think about themselves.. you are right. It really does seem to be a matter of pride. (and sometimes it is just an easier thing to blame others than deal with problems for yourself.. as in, "if my Johnny is having a problem it must be because of something YOU are doing wrong... he is an angel at home." Blah blah blah. Oh yeah.. it is a very telling thing indeed.)

We always tell people (who come into leadership roles with the kidling) that we want to hear the bad and the good. We are very mindful of her shortcomings.. ha. (did I mention she is a work in progress, afterall?? Ha) But she is a very bright and enthusiastic child, all the same. So it can be a fine line when it comes time to decide.. is she being willfully disruptive or disobedient.. or is she just "over enthusiastic" and needs to calme down. We will never make excuses for her behavior.. but having said that.. we also know HER (both her strenghths and her weaknesses) and we rarely ever see her being mean or harsh.. so if she "gets into it" with some other kid.. there is usually something more going on. She has spent her fair share in trouble.. ha. But we do try to balance it with love and not be overbearing when we explain why she could (and should) have chosen a better path for herself.

Her latest enemy is her "mouth" ha. And really, it is nothing new. ha. She has always been a bit strong willed (sometimes in a good way.. sometimes not so good) but lately.. I think we are getting WAY too close to that whole "teen" thing.. ha.. because she will sometimes argue back to me (sometimes quite rudely) when I tell her to do (or not do) something.

I have found that getting into a debate with her over her bad attitude only makes BOTH our attitudes worse.. ha So lately we have taken to discussing Prov 15:1 instead, and what it means to have a "soft (or quiet) answer" and how her "angry words" will only make things worse for her in the end. ha. And I have found this actually works even far better than giving her some sort of consequence or punishment.. or raising my own voice to her. (believe it or not)

And while I can almost SEE you rolling your eyes already... ha.. and I do confess that sometimes she responds to this approach better than others.. at least it it HAS seemed to make her more mindful of her tone.. and how she addresses me.

Pretty much, all I have to do now is say.. "Excuse me, was that a "soft answer" or was that "angry words" I just heard come out of your mouth right now?"

OH me.. she does hate it sometimes when I do that.. ha.. but she gets the message and it will usually stop whatever "flare up" she is having dead in its tracks. She NEVER likes to get in trouble.. ha.. but even more.. she really does not like these sorts of reminders that "make her think" or make her "explain" a bad choice she has made. OH me she really HATES it when I ask her to do THAT. ha

Sometimes she will even say to me.. "You are only asking me this so I will just THINK about it more" (ha.. and she is RIGHT)

So I will say, YES..... so now what sort of word WAS it that just came out of your mouth anyway a soft one or an angry one?" ha..

Oh yes.. .she REALLY hates that too ha.. but she will usually give me an answer.. and then we can move on.

She may not LIKE to think about how she is acting but at this age, that is more important to me than controling her behavior. It is the NEXT step to getting her to control herself. ha. (and THEN I hope things will be easier for her to figure out on her own!)

SO even if she hates it.. I am going to keep making her "think" ha. Its how I roll. (OH what a mean old mom I am)

All parents are influential with their children. Some of it is direct, a lot is indirect. How parents react to different things within the home rubs off. The interaction between parents or lackthereof rubs off

HA.. again you are saying something I would say myself. I think that it is important for kids to SEE what it is you want them to learn as much as hear it. If you don't want them to lie.. do you lie?? If you want them to be respectful, even when angry.. is that how you act.. or do you just bellow out of control at the drop of a hat? If you want them to be kind to others who are "weaker" do you show them how?? Or do you just "side step" those life model moments. As much as I still stand by what I said earlier (about rebellion and culture wars) in many ways.. we DO create our own 'monsters" for good or for bad.. I guess it is a two sided coin sometimes. ha.

And I've seen similar parenting produce different results. The Catholic family in my family has a strict (feared) patriarch and all of them grew up just exactly how their parents wished them to be. There was zero rebellion. I've seen others completely rebel against such strict control. My cousin's ex-husband grew up in a cold family that preached great responsibility. He's precisely that. My cousin grew up in a fairly frugal family and she is rebelling against her upbringing. She spends like crazy. Her younger brother is frugal

And that takes us back to our original conversation. I really do think eventually.. you choose who you are and your parents influence only has "so much" to do with it. (but it does admittedly play a part, I do agree)

Respect is becoming a lost value in our society. Self-respect is the hardest thing to instill in a person. It's something that I feel is extremely valuable, especially with young girls. Love can really reach another level, a true level, when respect is involved. How you treat others has a lot to do with respect. But it seems today that everyone feels they are in the right. It's about self

Ha.. you are just channeling your inner "peacemaker" now, arent' you?? Because I have often said the very same sorts of things.

Have you asked her what she likes about them

Oh yes.. she is a "detective" at heart. (what was that you said about a chip off the old block??) ha. She likes a good "mystery" for sure. She likes to try and solve it before Nancy does.

My cousin's daughter turns 13 in March. She is now starting to show great interest in boys and she has her first real crush. She's also constantly texting and using Instagram and the like. That's the dangers of today. The good news about her is that she's not one to do things she doesn't want to do. She's very self-conscious and worried to do wrong and feel embarrassed. I know all of this, personally. Now if she were flirtatious and looking to be accepted, I would be worried. My sister-in-law's oldest daughter is more of this. She just turned 11. I worry about her in the future

UGH.. I am so very NOT looking forward to those coming "moments". I don't even want to THINK about it. ha. I have already been asked A) "When can I wear makeup. And when can I get my own cell phone." ha.. What is she trying to do?? Ask me questions that make ME have to "think"?????????????????????? ha.

rohanaka · February 10, 2013

Well thank you for saying all that, my dear (ha... or is it DEAR) sir. I appreciate your kindness.. and I will look forward to your reply whenever you are ready.

I enjoy getting a chance to share opinions with you (and others too) and I like (and appreciate) the fact that even though we come from (sometimes) completely different points of view and ideas about things.. we often end up finding common ground in spite of ourselves. ha. (and even when we don't.. I am very grateful to you for your kindness and respect)

To be honest I almost just backspaced my whole post and deleted it.. ha.. because I knew it was getting very longwinded.. ha.. and I kept thinking SOMEWHERE in the middle of this I THINK we were talking about some movie.. but doggone if I can figure out what one now. ha.

(did I mention that I likely inherited all my "over-explaining gab and blab" skills from my dad????????)

But the topic we were on really is near and dear to my heart.. I am no "super mom" and I make mistakes all the time.. but I do have some very specific opinions about certain subjects. So thanks for putting up with me "expounding" on it all. I realize that not everyone will agree or see things the way I do.. so again.. so I thank you for your patience... and thanks for letting me share a little (ha.. ok a LOT) of blabbage now and then.

MEANWHILE.. remember when I told you that we ordered The Three Musketeers online for the kidling by using her Walmart b-day gift card?? Well, (brainstorm!) ha... yesterday I had some errands to run and I stopped by the store to get some stuff.. and i bought my OWN gift card.. ha.. just for ME so I could come home and order a movie for MOM for a change (oh.. how very UN-tightfisted and frivolous of me.. gasp!

I am just so excited to have figured out a way that I can order online now and then and not have do the "debit" card thing. Ha. It puts my mind more at ease to do it this way.. ha.see.. even though technophobia can be a very debilitating condition, I CAN work around it sometimes.. if I try. ha. (Can I get a WOO HOO everybody??)

So whenver you are ready to chat SPWH.. (and tell me how much you HATE it.. ha) I hope to have had a chance to re-watch it all again.. if only so I can sling more mud at you.

MissGoddess · February 11, 2013

>

> I like grumpy comedy.

>

i would say fred and ethel mertz are the more pessimistic (realistic?) side of marriage on "i love lucy", ha. fred is probably the original grumpy husband of TV comedy, ha!

>

> I didn't know The Dick Van Dyke Show was being played on the network. Do they play them in order? I still have the final season to watch.

>

Yes, they air them in order. And they are also being shown on TV Land, only they are much more edited down to fit in far more commercials than on "Me".

> Cary found out about Randy Scott being her "Tarzan" and he took great pleasure in catching Irene in her lie about him. It's the same in *Move Over, Darling*, it's just the scene in that film is over in a blink. We see much more of this in *My Favorite Wife*. Cary is really enjoying the switch of fortunes.

>

Oh, yes, now I remember what you mean. They were really getting at each other, much more so than in the later version. And I do think *My Favorite Wife* is better in many ways than the remake. It's classier, the script is infinitely wittier. But I grew up watching *Move Over, Darling* and I really like the performers a lot.

> Her shrieks are one of the most annoying things I have experienced in classic film.

>

ha! I know the feeling. Rosalind Russell had a similar effect on me in *Picnic*. Oy!

> But I don't think "Bianca" is to be played for laughs. She's the straightest character in the film. Gail Patrick is super icy. I think Cyd could play that. Polly Bergen plays the character "wacky."

>

I like her played for laughs and I like Gail's cool approach. Two very different tones. LIke I said, the former movie is very classy, the 1960s tended to be super "broad" in their comedy. Tastes were, admittedly, becoming less refined and you can see it in comedy particularly.

> I'll say! The stories about Marilyn and Dean not being around would frustrate and anger any director.

>

And George was a super patient man, he had been through this once with Marilyn in *Let's Make Love* but she had been better then. It was a similar story with Billy Wilder. He adored her on *The Seven Year Itch* and wanted to kill her on *Some Like it Hot*.

MissGoddess · February 11, 2013

what a wonderful conversation, may i say! ro, you really are to be commended for all the care and attention (and patience) you exercise in raising your girl. even from a distance, i can see how well it's paying off already. i can especially see an example of that in how patiently you explain things to FrankGrimes.

FrankGrimes · February 11, 2013

*i can especially see an example of that in how patiently you explain things to FrankGrimes. *

You just like seeing me put in my place! You're an expert at it!

MissGoddess · February 11, 2013

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}*i can especially see an example of that in how patiently you explain things to FrankGrimes. *

>

> You just like seeing me put in my place! You're an expert at it!

no, i'd say Ro-han has that honor, Mr. Drummond!

rohanaka · February 12, 2013

Thanks for the words of encouragment Miss G.. but alas.. I know that I too am a "work in progress" and have a good ways to go to get where I'd like to be as a mom. Some days are easier than others.. and then there are SOME days I would love to just pull out my hair and run screaming from the house. ha. (HEY..then they might lock me up and I could get that "relaxing" vacation I've been dreaming of for years!! ha. hmmm. Iwonder if they get TCM in the rec room at the loony bin???) ha.

(and PS: re Mr. Grimes.. well... I can't say that I have EVER put him in his "place".. except for maybe once or twice when we've had him swinging at the end of a frozen rope.. ha. (ah yes.. now THERE's a good place for him)

JackFavell · February 12, 2013

Just wanted to say that, like MissG, it's been very entertaining reading the thread lately! I enjoyed your conversations.

Watching The Lost Patrol again yesterday morning, I couldn't help but think about BOTRK. The movies aren't really alike, but I just couldn't help but be struck at how similar the feel is. "We have seen the enemy and he is us."

FrankGrimes · February 13, 2013

*i would say fred and ethel mertz are the more pessimistic (realistic?) side of marriage on "i love lucy", ha. fred is probably the original grumpy husband of TV comedy, ha!*

Realistic? Now, now. Well, maybe if a guy was married to someone snippy. Something tells me I'll eventually find my way to I Love Lucy in time.

*Yes, they air them in order. And they are also being shown on TV Land, only they are much more edited down to fit in far more commercials than on "Me".*

Oh, I'd hate that. Thank goodness for DVDs.

*Oh, yes, now I remember what you mean. They were really getting at each other, much more so than in the later version. And I do think My Favorite Wife is better in many ways than the remake. It's classier, the script is infinitely wittier. But I grew up watching Move Over, Darling and I really like the performers a lot.*

I think you've hit on it, it's about when you saw *Move Over, Darling* compared to *My Favorite Wife*. I have seen both at an older age and I saw *My Favorite Wife* first.

*ha! I know the feeling. Rosalind Russell had a similar effect on me in Picnic. Oy!*

And you can stand her in *The Women* ?! I think she's way worse in that one.

*I like her played for laughs and I like Gail's cool approach. Two very different tones. LIke I said, the former movie is very classy, the 1960s tended to be super "broad" in their comedy. Tastes were, admittedly, becoming less refined and you can see it in comedy particularly.*

That's a great observation. And who would have thought I would come down on the "classy" side of the aisle. I'm an 80s guy who loves *Top Secret!*, for goodness sake!

*And George was a super patient man, he had been through this once with Marilyn in Let's Make Love but she had been better then. It was a similar story with Billy Wilder. He adored her on The Seven Year Itch and wanted to kill her on Some Like it Hot.*

That's why I pity directors!

By the way, I was reminded of you with this:

http://www.hersheytheatre.com/performances_events/details.php?id=12983

FrankGrimes · February 13, 2013

*Just wanted to say that, like MissG, it's been very entertaining reading the thread lately! I enjoyed your conversations.*

Ha! You just want to see my face shoved into the mud! Now I know why Quiet Gal loves *McLintock!* . She is that movie! Her poor husband!

*Watching The Lost Patrol again yesterday morning, I couldn't help but think about BOTRK. The movies aren't really alike, but I just couldn't help but be struck at how similar the feel is. "We have seen the enemy and he is us."*

I think that's a really good comparison. You really hit on it: it's sometimes about self. We humans and our egos, our need to be "right."

MissGoddess · February 13, 2013

> Realistic? Now, now. Well, maybe if a guy was married to someone snippy. Something tells me I'll eventually find my way to I Love Lucy in time.

>

i hope so.

> *Yes, they air them in order. And they are also being shown on TV Land, only they are much more edited down to fit in far more commercials than on "Me".*

>

> Oh, I'd hate that. Thank goodness for DVDs.

>

definitely.

>

> I think you've hit on it, it's about when you saw *Move Over, Darling* compared to *My Favorite Wife*. I have seen both at an older age and I saw *My Favorite Wife* first.

>

And you're more a Cary Grant fan.

> *ha! I know the feeling. Rosalind Russell had a similar effect on me in Picnic. Oy!*

>

> And you can stand her in *The Women* ?! I think she's way worse in that one.

>

No! She's untakeable in that one, too. Most of the movie is, for me! The title alone is enough to make me avoid it.

> That's a great observation. And who would have thought I would come down on the "classy" side of the aisle. I'm an 80s guy who loves *Top Secret!*, for goodness sake!

>

And you prefer Fred to Gene! Something tells me you've been fooling us.

> By the way, I was reminded of you with this:

>

> http://www.hersheytheatre.com/performances_events/details.php?id=12983

>

Did you go? Wow, a movie and a concert for $7. They'd never have anything affordable like that here unless you're stuck sitting on the grass next to a weirdo in Bryant Park.

FrankGrimes · February 13, 2013

*And you're more a Cary Grant fan.*

This is very true. Cary is hard to top, in my eyes.

*No! She's untakeable in that one, too. Most of the movie is, for me! The title alone is enough to make me avoid it. *

I can't see you not liking a movie without a single guy, you hussy!

*And you prefer Fred to Gene! Something tells me you've been fooling us.*

Not at all! It's more like this:

*Did you go?*

It's this Sunday, Silly Goose.

*Wow, a movie and a concert for $7. They'd never have anything affordable like that here unless you're stuck sitting on the grass next to a weirdo in Bryant Park.*

But I would be the weirdo at the concert! It's all the same!

FrankGrimes · February 13, 2013

*The kidling would LOVE to have a "purple" room. (that is her LATEST favorite color..she used to just be a "PINK" kinda gal. (and I confess.. I may have been just because that is the color I usually chose for her as a baby) but for whatever reason, purple is the new PINK for her lately ha. I am still trying to wrap my mind around how PURPLE she can go if we do decide to paint her room that color.. but I think we are going to end up there.. someday. ha. (Hey.. maybe by the time I make up my mind to let her do it.. and she picks out a shade she likes.. ha.. she'll have moved on to some OTHER color and maybe purple won't matter anymore. HA.)*

My brother and his wife painted a room purple in their old apartment. It was for her child from a previous marriage. She was nine, at the time. I believe the color was more lavender. They have since moved, so the next tenant had a fun room or a quick paint job to do.

*Well yes.. if we are sticking with just those two titles, I guess morals do come into play. (because I really do have a thing about movies or stories that appear to "glorify" adultery) But it goes beyond just "morals". To me, I think it is more about understanding what it means to truly love a person in a "life long" and lasting sort of way. I think a lot of time people confuse "passion" with love. And they burn brightly maybe even for a very long time.. but really only have a "concept" of what a deeper LOVE for someone ought to look like. They are more or less basing their happiness on a lesser "imitation" of love, without any real foundation under it. (and that is why so often "love stories" end in heartbreak)*

My definition of love is the same as yours. But the love you speak of has its passion, too. So just because we see passion on the screen, it doesn't mean it's not true love. I think passion does play a major role in love. I feel a woman needs to know they are desired. Sexually-desired is only a part of the equation. Desire is much broader.

*The African Queen* is clearly your kind of love story, by the way. Depending on how you like the stars, you may end up loving it.

*Hmm.. yes, I can see that there is a level of "emotion" attached to that word.. but to me.. lasting and abiding love is more. Emotions change and can wax and wane... a lot. But it takes something deeper to weather the harder moments of "life" together (ha.. another "L" word)*

Love is too strong of a feeling to control like that. It really does make you do crazy things. It can drive you crazy, too.

*Oh you would be right. At least partially. I DO have a lot of his "personality" but that is not the same thing. Because again.. he and I have very different opinions about a LOT of issues that we both feel very strongly about. (ha.. for example, he and you have a lot in common when it comes to.. hmm.. say the "Hell's Hinges" sort of topics. ha.) But you are right.. we are similar in (at least some ways) with regards to our personality.*

What?! Your dad is more similar to me with religious stuff? Now that's the biggest upset of all! I could have sworn differently. And this is why I like people and being wrong. You learn that way. If you're always right, you ain't learning a thing.

*He is a debater.. and a talker.. and a VERY long winded "explainer" ha.. so maybe those are the things I have most in common with him. *

I'm a talker and a debater with those I care to debate with. I try not to be long-winded, though.

*She is very "tenderhearted" and will often go above and beyond to try and find the "bright side' even if there is no brightside to be found. ha. And she only wants to see the "good" in people. And this is likely where I am both the most AND the least like her.. all at the same time. ha. Because I can understand why she feels that way.. but I also am honest enough to know she is fooling herself a lot of the time. She doesn't want to believe that the people she cares for could do anything bad. (only BAD people do bad things and no one she loves is a bad person).*

I share some of your mom's qualities, too. I'm very forgiving. But I'm also like you in that I often acknowledge the negatives in a person. I feel the best way to love a person is to be honest about who they are.

*But the reality is... we have had a few "black sheep" moments in our family.. (especially extended family) and while I DO have compassion for those who make mistakes..and end up in rough circumstances because of it.. I also get pretty agitated when I see someone I care for headed down a road I know is going to lead to disaster.. and they refuse to "get a clue" that they need to stop and go the other way.*

I completely understand that. They lack the self-control that you do. That is always frustrating to deal with.

*The difference is.. she would never TELL them that.. I will.. if they ask me.*

Don't I know it!

*Which is where my DAD starts to comes out in me again.. ha.(but ha.. I am nicer than he is.. ha. (again.. my mother's side) I don't go about spouting to them what I think they should do.. and telling them they are stupid if they don't listen.. ha. That rarely seems to go over well.And yet.. ha.. sometimes he still does it.) *

We guys like to hear ourselves talk with issues of control.

*I always say.. I am a mix of both. I can tell you whatever it is I think you need to hear.. and then give you a hug when I am finished. ha.*

That's the best way, but it's a difficult way because most people don't want a hug from someone who tells them they are idiots.

*Well, nerve is all in your perspective. To me I think it can often be easy to just forget what you don't want to remember (about how you were raised) if it suits the moment. But it takes MORE nerve to hold on to what you know is right.. when everyone around you has chosen a different path. And that can either happen BECAUSE your parents taught you well.. or despite the fact they didn't. It really is up to each person to stand (or fall) on his own, eventually. No matter what their parents did or didn't teach them. But having said that.. again.. I DO concede that many are as you say... simply following their parent's way of teaching.. some blindly, because it is all they know.. but I think many others do so out of a conscious choice because they truly believe (after looking at life) that it is the right way to choose. They MIGHT have chosen a different path.. but kept what their parents taught them because they feel it is the best way to go.*

Most people don't look into life too deeply. They do what pleases them while attempting to maintain an image that they feel is accepted by their family and society. Self-pleasure is usually atop the list for most everyone. What comes next is image, which is the means to conceal guilt and deficiency. Selfishness is what's really destroying families. I feel it's the greatest disease of all.

*Because again.. it all depends on how you view things. Because I tend to look at the whole "broad is the way that leads to destruction" thing in the Bible and take it seriously. ha. (so that is where the Black and White of life creeps in on me) I think that sometimes it is a-ok to choose whatever path you want and make up your own mind.. as long as it is an "optional" path. (hey.. I admit it... some things in life really ARE gray.. I mean GREY ha) But there are "rights and wrongs" in life too (the black and white) And to me.. by definition, selfishness is in chosing a path just because you want it.. without regard for how anyone else may feel or think about it no matter if it is right or wrong. But having said all that.. I will admit to you that I can see how some might think it was a "brave" or a "good" thing for some to just make their own choice and find their own way.. it can be a fine line sometimes. (It really does depend a lot on what "world view" you may be coming from)*

I feel more empowered by knowledge, hence my thinking that broader is better. And I say this being an unadventurous person. If we're to live in a sheltered life for the rest of our life, then narrow can work. But if you are to spend your life with others on the "outside," you're going to be exposed to different things and be confronted with opposing thoughts and ways of life. If we are to be narrow, we will quickly "damn" those who are not like us, thus closing many doors on not just them, but ourselves.

Those who fear to lose control over others fear outside influences, for they fear that person will actually choose differently than them. And it's not always about who's right or who's wrong, just different viewpoints. But for some, there is only one right to them, so choosing against them is choosing wrong. I don't think of myself as right. I don't mind if everyone thinks I'm wrong. It's no big deal. But for some, being right is everything.

*Ha.. now that sounds like something I would say. :DSo you do think it is important for parents to teach their children to follow good and guiding principles of right and wrong. (and reinforce them in a way that will help the child to learn from them enough to "carry that through" into adulthood.) Hmm.. I think our dictionaries are closer than you may think. *

Absolutely! A parent is to instill as many good qualities in their child as they can. We all have our different ideas on what those good qualities are and how to instill them. We are to instill what we feel are the rights and wrongs of life. Again, there are different ideas with that and means of doing it.

I would be the kind of parent who would give my child freedom to choose, for I feel that is important in the growth of a child. But there is a price for that freedom. The price is respect. Once you disrespect that freedom, there will be consequences. Trust is so very important in life. We need to trust our spouse and we need to trust our child. How do we get to trusting both? By trusting ourselves in doing right by ourselves. The problem with this for so many people is vanity. The thinking is, "Not my husband! Not my child!" Translation: anything that is attached to me cannot be bad or wrong.

*OH absolutely. I have seen it many times, having worked with and around children (in a variety of capacities) off and on for many years. A lot of parents only want to hear the GOOD and never the bad.. but every kid has something sometime that needs to be dealt with. I have yet to meet one yet that did not. And it is very telling when you get parents who will or won't work with you on that.. just what they think about themselves.. you are right. It really does seem to be a matter of pride. (and sometimes it is just an easier thing to blame others than deal with problems for yourself.. as in, "if my Johnny is having a problem it must be because of something YOU are doing wrong... he is an angel at home." Blah blah blah. Oh yeah.. it is a very telling thing indeed.)*

You've got it. If you cannot come to understand the failings of your child, you are failing them.

And I just love how parents always think the "other" parents are raising the bad kids. Again, lots and lots of vanity.

< <strong>We always tell people (who come into leadership roles with the kidling) that we want to hear the bad and the good. We are very mindful of her shortcomings.. ha. (did I mention she is a work in progress, afterall?? Ha) But she is a very bright and enthusiastic child, all the same. So it can be a fine line when it comes time to decide.. is she being willfully disruptive or disobedient.. or is she just "over enthusiastic" and needs to calme down. We will never make excuses for her behavior.. but having said that.. we also know HER (both her strenghths and her weaknesses) and we rarely ever see her being mean or harsh.. so if she "gets into it" with some other kid.. there is usually something more going on. She has spent her fair share in trouble.. ha. But we do try to balance it with love and not be overbearing when we explain why she could (and should) have chosen a better path for herself.*

Terrific! That all sounds excellent. I'm very impressed.

It's important to take a real interest in your child. I know some parents who love their child and will do anything for them but they don't take a real interest in them. Mothers are usually far better at this than fathers. Dads just seem to go with the flow and do their thing. I'm the inquisitive-type.

*Her latest enemy is her "mouth" ha. And really, it is nothing new. ha. She has always been a bit strong willed (sometimes in a good way.. sometimes not so good) but lately.. I think we are getting WAY too close to that whole "teen" thing.. ha.. because she will sometimes argue back to me (sometimes quite rudely) when I tell her to do (or not do) something.*

*I have found that getting into a debate with her over her bad attitude only makes BOTH our attitudes worse.. ha So lately we have taken to discussing Prov 15:1 instead, and what it means to have a "soft (or quiet) answer" and how her "angry words" will only make things worse for her in the end. ha. And I have found this actually works even far better than giving her some sort of consequence or punishment.. or raising my own voice to her. (believe it or not) *

You're a very observant mother. And one who seems to parent to the situation. I like that. It sounds like you may have a typical mother/daughter relationship in that it can be love/hate for a few years. Since your daughter is an only child, is terribly close to you, and is very similar to you, it's only natural. Ohhhhh, I can't wait until she has a boyfriend!

*And while I can almost SEE you rolling your eyes already... ha.. and I do confess that sometimes she responds to this approach better than others.. at least it it HAS seemed to make her more mindful of her tone.. and how she addresses me.*

No rolling eyes from me! I hate yellers. I feel they are either too emotional or looking to intimidate or both. Lots or irrationality comes from yelling. I am for tonal changes, though.

*Pretty much, all I have to do now is say.. "Excuse me, was that a "soft answer" or was that "angry words" I just heard come out of your mouth right now?"*

How entertaining!

*OH me.. she does hate it sometimes when I do that.. ha.. but she gets the message and it will usually stop whatever "flare up" she is having dead in its tracks. She NEVER likes to get in trouble.. ha.. but even more.. she really does not like these sorts of reminders that "make her think" or make her "explain" a bad choice she has made. OH me she really HATES it when I ask her to do THAT. ha*

That's hilarious! Nobody wants to admit they are guilty or wrong. And I'll take honest emotions over lies all the time. So I like that she shows anger.

*Sometimes she will even say to me.. "You are only asking me this so I will just THINK about it more" (ha.. and she is RIGHT) *

She's smart!

*She may not LIKE to think about how she is acting but at this age, that is more important to me than controling her behavior. It is the NEXT step to getting her to control herself. ha. (and THEN I hope things will be easier for her to figure out on her own!)*

Perfect! That's great parenting! Self-control is very hard to instill. It's becoming impossible today because the parents have zero idea about self-control. It's all about "do what you like," today.

*HA.. again you are saying something I would say myself. I think that it is important for kids to SEE what it is you want them to learn as much as hear it. If you don't want them to lie.. do you lie?? If you want them to be respectful, even when angry.. is that how you act.. or do you just bellow out of control at the drop of a hat? If you want them to be kind to others who are "weaker" do you show them how?? Or do you just "side step" those life model moments. As much as I still stand by what I said earlier (about rebellion and culture wars) in many ways.. we DO create our own 'monsters" for good or for bad.. I guess it is a two sided coin sometimes. ha.*

You're exactly right. I firmly believe that children learn more from how they see their parents act within the home above anything else. And I'm talking from the very early days of their childhood. How parents interact is absorbed. How parents are with their family and friends is absorbed. How a parent talks in the home, works in the home, behaves in the home, etc.

*And that takes us back to our original conversation. I really do think eventually.. you choose who you are and your parents influence only has "so much" to do with it. (but it does admittedly play a part, I do agree)*

There are some things we choose and others that we have no choice with at all. A child's personality and emotional make-up are often the product of those early days in their childhood where they had no power to choose at all. So a person could have relationship problems because of who they are, not their choices. A lot people make the mistake of thinking, "I didn't have a problem with that, so you shouldn't, either." Well, we're all wired so differently. What makes one person warm and another cold? It's rarely choices.

*Oh yes.. she is a "detective" at heart. (what was that you said about a chip off the old block??) ha. She likes a good "mystery" for sure. She likes to try and solve it before Nancy does. *

Yep, love/hate, all the way.

*UGH.. I am so very NOT looking forward to those coming "moments". I don't even want to THINK about it. ha. I have already been asked A) "When can I wear makeup. And when can I get my own cell phone." ha.. What is she trying to do?? Ask me questions that make ME have to "think"?????????????????????? ha.*

That cracked me up! The make-up question is always a fascinating one. Lots of interesting questions to be found with that one. The cell phone is the worrisome one. And if a kid doesn't have one today, they really feel like they're a nobody.

My cousin's daughter is 12 and she's all about texting and using Instagram. I'd say all of this happened in the past six months or so. A year ago, she wasn't into all of that. If there is one thing that hasn't changed through the years, it's girls gossipping about boys.

FrankGrimes · February 13, 2013

Here's the most recent group of films I have watched:

Abbott and Costello Go to Mars

The Adventures of Marco Polo

Alias Jesse James

The Barbarian and the Geisha

Berlin Express

The Bridges at Toko-Ri

The Cat and the Canary (1939)

The Cheat

The Damned Don't Cry

Day-Time Wife

Diary of a Chambermaid (1964)

Doctor Zhivago

Elena and Her Men

Evelyn Prentice

Four Around a Woman

The Great Escape

High Society

How the West Was Won

I Shot Jesse James

King Solomon's Mines (1950)

A Lady Without Passport

Lonely Are the Brave

Lone Star (1952)

Love Happy

Monte Carlo

Northern Pursuit

On the Riviera

Phone Call from a Stranger

Rogue Cop

Run Silent, Run Deep

Sabrina

The Sheepman

So Proudly We Hail!

Suzy

The Three Musketeers (1948)

We're No Angels

What a Way to Go!

Wings

Without Love

Witness to Murder

So how do you (or anyone) like these films? Any favorites? Are you cold on any of these?

SansFin · February 14, 2013

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> Doctor Zhivago

I love very much the scenery and composition of the scenes.

> The Great Escape

It is wonderful that you have watched this! Now you will have a greater appreciation when you watch *Chicken Run* (2000).

> Sabrina

I love this movie. It is so very innocent in many ways. It is a pure delight.

> The Three Musketeers (1948)

It is sad to say that I have never found any movie based on a work by Dumas that is in any manner satisfying. The books are rich and meaningful. The movies are shallow and stuttery..

> We're No Angels

This is one of my favorite of all time movies. It is so telling that a character who is never seen is one of the most fun characters in any movie. It is as if Basil Rathbone returned to his roots of being a villain which he mastered in his early career.

> What a Way to Go!

I found this to be a fun romp. I am very happy to have watched it but I believe I will not feel the need to watch it again for many years.

MissGoddess · February 14, 2013

well, before i jump into the new list, i'll just squeeze in a few parting comments on the last one, for some of those listed, anyway:

*The Adventures of Robin Hood* - if you liked Flynn as RH then you seem to be okay with him. Love Basil AND Claude Raines as the villains. Doesn't get much better.

*The Fly* - I love this sci-fi movie, and i rarely "love" anything in this genre though I do find it fun. This movie is very serious in its message, I feel, though it's kind of over-the-top at times. It's interesting seeing Vincent Price in the "neutral" role for a change. Two scenes bother me: The cat scene and the one where Helene has to do what she has to do; it is one of the most harrowing things from a classic movie. I know I could never do such a thing. But I like how it kind of reinforces the seriousness of the consequences of recklessness in experimenting with living creatures.

The Dawn Patrol (1938) - all these heavy war films, i didn't realize you saw so many in a row. This is one of the best and I favor this version for some reason, over Hawks' original (the remake includes some aerial footage from the earlier film, I believe). Everyone is great.

*The Bottom of the Bottle* - I admit I like the "look" of the film more than anything. The colors, setting, etc. I do think Van Johnson was good in certain dramatic roles. He gives his screen partners something solid to play off of, and sincere emotions.

*Footsteps in the Fog* - I like and don't like this movie. I think what I don't like is Jean's character. That is what makes it unique, of course. It slightly reminds me in tone of *Under Capricorn*.

*Jubal* - I do see some "Othello" with this movie myself.

MissGoddess · February 14, 2013

this is a list of what forty different people watched, not one person!

oy!

*Abbott and Costello Go to Mars* - never seen

*The Adventures of Marco Polo* - i guess you can add that to both your coop and ford lists...ford directed the sand dune sequence

*Alias Jesse James* - not Bob's funniest western spoof, but it's loaded with great cameos.

*The Barbarian and the Geisha* - oy! the less said, the better. although to be honest, i saw it only once and a very, very long time ago.

*Berlin Express* - this movie disappointed inexpressibly. i had such high hopes since i love ryan and merle. i found it rather dull and i still don't know how that is possible.

*The Bridges at Toko-Ri* - not a favorite of mine, though i like holden and kelly together. very handsome, 'blonde' couple.

*The Cat and the Canary* (1939) - not as funny as *the ghost breakers*; bob is so young.

*The Cheat* - Is this the DeMille movie? I have never seen it, and I feel...cheated.

*The Damned Don't Cry* - I really enjoyed this one. Very "Joan" of the late forties, early fifties period.

*Day-Time Wife* - isn't this the movie linda darnell lied about her age to get the contract with Fox? She's jail bait!

*Diary of a Chambermaid* (1964) - never seen.

*Doctor Zhivago* - :x i am not happy with the story (adultery glorified) but the execution of it and the performances...and yes, the music...always sweep me up. plus, this movie and *gone with the wind* were must-see events in my childhood when they came on tv once a year.

*Elena and Her Men* - never seen.

*Evelyn Prentice* - interesting drama, but staid. i had higher hopes for it and was rather disappointed.

*Four Around a Woman* - i've never heard of this one.

*The Great Escape* - Love to know what you thought of it. A real adventure classic.

*High Society* - I always wanted to LOVE this movie and instead, I find it irritating. Frank, Bing and Satchmo are the only things I can stand about it. I don't like any of the other cast members in their roles, and I like most of them so much...elsewhere. Even Grace annoys me, she comes of amateurish to me. I blame it all on the director, who made it extremely stage bound. Having seen *The Philadelphia Story* first also poisons my opinion.

On the plus side, Frank's song "Mind If I Make Love to You" with Grace is very erotic...Grace looks STUNNING and luminous...and it's marvelous to see such great musical personalities working together.

*How the West Was Won* - I honestly find it too long to watch ever again. Some scenes are okay, many are dull or annoying.

*I Shot Jesse James* - i had to look up which "jesse james" movie this was (you seemed to be fascinated this round with jesse). it's the Fuller entry. Very provocative.

*King Solomon's Mines* (1950) - along with *The Great Escape*, a true adventure classic. I really enjoy the "Bickersons" routine between Deborah and Stewart. She is such a pain through half of Africa.

*A Lady Without Passport* - I like this "B" movie. Hedy decidedly seems to be slumming, but I thought she was rather good. I like the scenario, the desperate people trying to get to America any way they can and the leeches that prey on them. The ending, in fact the last third of the movie, is anticlimactic, but it's enjoyable while they are in Cuba (and many scenes are actually shot in Havana). It doesn't hurt that I also like John Hodiak.

*Lonely Are the Brave* - my favorite Kirk Douglas movie. a very elegiac film in the style of *The Misfits* and *The Lusty Men*. Gene Rowlands is good, but the real star is the absolutely stunning Palomino. If you choose to look at it that way, it's the best "horse movie" ever made.

*Lone Star* (1952) - i was so disappointed at this film when i saw it ages ago. Clark and Ava---how could it be bad? Thank goodness they had a better one coming around the corner.

*Love Happy* - is this the Marx brothers movie with Marilyn? Very routine.

*Monte Carlo* - A pleasant Lubitsch romp, similar to his other Ruritanian musicals. It's difficult for me to separate them sometimes.

*Northern Pursuit* - I enjoyed this movie with Errol Flynn a trifle more than some of his other wartime adventures films. Helmut Dantine is so convincing as a Nazi.

*On the Riviera* - the scenery---Gene---is gorgeous but I am not overly fond of Danny Kaye. I do think he was brilliant, though.

*Phone Call from a Stranger* - I like the Shelley Winters segment best.

*Rogue Cop* - One of my very favorite Robert Taylor movies. I dont' even think of it as an RT movie. They could have cast someone else and I'd probably like it the same.

*Run Silent, Run Deep* - serious Gable and super serious Burt. i have to sit and watch it all the way through again but i do remember it's one of Gable's finer hours, drama wise. And Wise-wise. He didn't work often enough with truly great actors' directors, I feel. Whenever he did...whenever...he was unbeatable.

This movie makes me think of *The Enemy Below*, which I like a little better for the story. I recommend it highly. One of Mitchum's best. How wonderful if Gable and Mitchum could have done a movie together.

*Sabrina* - How dearly I adored this movie once upon a time. It came close to Charade and Breakfast at Tiffany's for the number of times I watched it. I even bought a copy of the movie script, and the original play. I couldn't believe Margaret Sullavan originated the part, it seemed positive made for Audrey. And though many thought Bogart miscast, I think he's perfect. However, I can see that he and Audrey don't have much chemistry on screen. Nevertheless, it's my favorite Billy Wilder comedy along with *Love in the Afternoon*. Audrey softened his cynicism and brought out his romanticism.

*The Sheepman* - This movie confuses me sometimes as to whether it's a comedy, spoof or serious western, but it's still fun. Shirley and Glenn are very cute in the beginning. I like Glenn's character. He reminds me of "Harry O", lol. He's just not going to go along with the crowd. It's an off-beat western. Leslie Neilsen makes me want to laugh, I can't take his character seriously enough.

So Proudly We Hail! - I do like the actresses and especially Veronica's character.

*Suzy* - I was disappointed by this movie. I thought Grant and Jean would be good together but as Frenchies? I didn't buy it.

*The Three Musketeers* (1948) - Lovely Lana! And Angela looks gorgeous, too. A very handsome production. Though I have to agree with Sansfin, I've yet to see a Dumas movie I really enjoyed through and through. But I've never finished any of his books, either! I just like the stories, I think.

*We're No Angels* - Adolphe!

What a Way to Go! - This movie has some of the funniest (to me) moments. Two Shirley movies for you this time. My favorite parts: The first scene with Margaret Dumont and Shirley narrating. The bits at home with the "mottoes" on the wall and her father shrinking into the chair are sooooooo funny to me! Seeing Dean's face superimposed by a snake; I don't find Paul Newman a funny guy like I do Dick Van Dyke or Dean, but I like the satire of pretentious modern artists; Shirley's ridiculous costumes; Robert Mitchum and his bull. The whole "theme" about money and how it changes people is pretty funny.

*Wings* - the aerial stunts and Gary's exit are the stand out moments for me.

*Without Love* - Kind of dull Tracy and Hepburn movie. At least there's Lucy.

*Witness to Murder* - I liked this Barbara Stanwyck thriller. It's nothing special, but Gary Merrill is attractive, George is his dependably evil and superior self and Barbara is always a pro.

FrankGrimes · February 14, 2013

My goodness, you are fast and efficient. What took you about a half hour to write would take me four hours.

What are your top ten films from that list? You don't have to rank them in order. What do you think my top ten are?

FrankGrimes · February 14, 2013

Thanks for commenting, SansFin!

How many films on my list have you seen?

MissGoddess · February 14, 2013

*mine*

8. The Damned Don't Cry

1. Doctor Zhivago

5. King Solomon's Mines (1950)

9. A Lady Without Passport

2. Lonely Are the Brave

3. Rogue Cop

4. Sabrina

10. We're No Angels

6. What a Way to Go!

7. Witness to Murder

*yours*

1. Diary of a Chambermaid (1964)

2. Elena and Her Men

3. Four Around a Woman

4. The Great Escape

5. The Sheepman

6. Run Silent, Run Deep

7. We're No Angels

8. Lonely Are the Brave

9. Berlin Express

10. King Solomon's Mines (1950)

FrankGrimes · February 14, 2013

You know me pretty darn well. You correctly guessed six of my top ten. And you correctly guessed that your top ten and mine would be drastically different.

The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread

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