The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread

[MissGoddess]

great conversations!

 

Jackie---i totally forgot about Gene Kelly in What a Way to Go!, too...and now I remember it's because he is sooo annoying and grating from the very start. All the other guys I could see what had Shirley interested, but not "Pinky" (even his name annoyed me).

 

And no need to apologize about *Doctor Z*, in fact I'm the one who has to apologize since the whole love story is just wrong on so many levels. I'm in love with the film itself and though I don't go for propaganda or political messages in movies, I thought Lean's commentary on private (individual) life vs. the communistic ideology sweeping the country was very powerfully done. Seeing it all through the eyes (Yuri's/Lean's) of an emotional poet is what gets me, I guess.

 

Another more problematic Lean film for me is *Ryan's Daughter*. At least in DZ there was the upheaval of an entire regime and way of life to make some "excuse" (though there is no excuse, only selfishness, really) for the upheaval in personal lives...in RD there is only boredom. Which makes it very modern in that respect. Plus, I really do not like Sarah Miles. She's utterly lacking in any humor, but then, so is her character. Mitchum and John Mills are excellent. So is Trevor Howard and, of course, the scenery. The story is almost identical to the love story in DZ except the genders are reversed. It's the wife that is straying.

 

I've seen *Vacation From Marriage* (and always thought by the title it was one of those Debbie Reynolds or Rock Hudson sex comedies of the 1960s) and agree it was extremely realistic. I was quite surprised by how thoroughly it tackles a subject rarely touched-upon in war times (the results of extended separation on a marriage). *The Best Years of Our Lives* does the same, but this movie was much grimmer, I thought, though I don't remember the ending.

 

I had forgotten about Barbara being locked in the sanatorium in *Witness to Murder*. The story fell short there, especially if you are casting anyone as sensible and believable as Stanwyck. Maybe Gary would have been more excusable to not to believe Gloria Grahame or Lucille Ball.

 

And I agree *Robin Hood* is one of those "perfect" films that just takes your breath away with how flawless it is start-to-finish.

[MissGoddess]

*this board is driving me nuts. i click on "quote" and all i get are thousands of miles of blank lines.*

 

> There is music in The Adventures of Robin Hood ?

 

very much so!

 

> David Hedison is bland but I love the flashback part since it's the entire story!

 

> And that was the problem!

 

it's a very meaningful message.

 

> It's very similar to The Road to Glory and Ceiling Zero (and Air Mail, et al).

 

> I haven't seen Ceiling Zero and Air Mail. I like your comparison to The Road to Glory. That's right on target.

 

I admit I prefer TRtG a little more. Maybe because there is a romance. But *The Dawn Patrol* is excellent.

 

> I didn't get anything deep from it at all. I just thought it was two greedy people.

 

> I thought Lily (Jean Simmons) loved Stephen (Stewart Granger). Stephen did not like that she "owned" him. This made the ending quite interesting.

 

I suppose two cobras have to be careful when they embrace.

 

 

> I've now reached 50 films with Coop. I may post my list on the "Coop" thread and ask for some guidance. I know which film you'd say I still need to see the most.

>

 

you do? i don't!

 

>

> And I did want to watch it because I knew John Ford worked on it. He also did the same with *Pinky*, a film I still need to watch.

>

 

oy! i think he may have been a poor choice to direct that one.

 

> I watched this because it was on Coop's list. I thought it was a below-average effort for Bob until the final third of the film. The wagon sequence and then the final shootout with the great cameos were very good. I liked seeing Ward Bond.

>

 

yes, the last part is the highlight of the film.

 

> When I saw John Huston directed it I thought, "it cannot be nearly as bad as everyone says it is." Well, I thought it was pretty bad. I kept waiting and waiting and waiting for something to happen, for some sort of emotions to stir, anything. But the film just sat there. It's a nice-looking pic, but the value stops there.

>

 

a real waste of time of performer, director and audience!

 

> Inexpressibly? I think the story is average but I liked the mystery and suspense of it all. I loved the set-up. You've got all these characters from different nations looking to help one another out. Or are they? I wish they didn't reveal the big twist until the very end. The film would have been even better, then. Instead, Jacques Tourneur decides to go Hitchcock's route and let's us know there is a "bomb ticking under table."

>

 

i'm hoping i just missed something when i saw it, since you and jackie both seem to appreciate it so much.

 

>

> *The Cat and the Canary (1939) - not as funny as the ghost breakers; bob is so young.*

>

>

> I loved it! You're right, it's not as funny of a film, but it plays very well as a horror flick. I thought it was very enjoyable. After watching it, I was craving to see another film like it.

>

 

really? i'm glad you enjoyed it at least. have you seen My Favorite Brunette?

 

>

> *The Cheat - Is this the DeMille movie? I have never seen it, and I feel...cheated. *

>

>

> No, this is a "Tallulah Bankhead" film. It's a strange one. Definitely fits the bill as "pre-code."

>

>

 

I'm not sure I've seen it. I do know *Faithless*, which Bankhead made with Robert Montgomery, it's also a pre-code.

 

> I wanted to like it but I found it to be mostly uninspiring. It was like another take on *Mildred Pierce*. "What if Mildred just left her family and went after what she wanted?"

>

 

Many times her movies play like re-workings of earlier films and scenarios. I wish she'd made a movie with Bob Hope! That would have been something to scare him!

 

>

> Yes! And she puts on a show! I thought the first half of the film was mostly dull, but once Linda takes a job as a secretary and she goes on a double date with her boss (Warren William) and her husband (Tyrone Power) and his secretary (Wendy Barrie) make up the other couple, it's hilarious. Linda really sticks it to Ty! It's one of my favorite Linda performances. I can't believe she was 15!

>

 

My goodness, I'm glad you liked it. I was disappointed by it.

 

> I'm very surprised you like this film. David Lean continues to work his magic with me, though. Great endings!

>

 

So what did you like about it?

 

> This one made Manhattan Melodrama seem thrilling! The best thing about the film is Myrna Loy. It was great to see her in trouble. But all of the courtroom stuff at the end of the film is quite ludicrous. Poor William Powell!

 

ha, for once we agree.

 

> Four Around a Woman - i've never heard of this one.

 

> It's one of Fritz Lang's silent films. It's part of the recent DVD collection that Kino released late last year.

 

what is it about? who are the four and who is the woman?

 

>The Great Escape - Love to know what you thought of it. A real adventure classic.

 

> I thought it was very good. All of it plays so well. From the immediate plotting to the undertaking to the actual escape to the conclusions for all the main characters. I was happy to see some emotional depth in the film.

 

which was your favorite character?

 

 

> It's not The Philadelphia Story, that's for sure. But what truly elevated the film for me was the songs and seeing Frank, Bing, and Satchmo together. I found all of that to be quite powerful. Grace Kelly was trying too hard to be like Katharine Hepburn. That was her downfall.

 

perhaps. she was definitely over the top. worst of all was pairing celeste holm with frank. poor frank!

 

 

> I can't say that I disagree with your quick assessment. James Stewart was good in the film, so I was into the opening. I also liked Gregory Peck. But from then on, the film drifts downward. George Peppard just cannot carry a film like this, for me. John Wayne is completely wasted. It was funny to see Henry Fonda as he was. I wasn't into the Richard Widmark segment.

 

I can't even remember Widmark's segment and you're right that Peppard was out of his league.

 

> I was bored to death with this one! Nothing seemed to be happening. I know they encountered some trials and tribulations during the journey but none of them captured me with the exception of the animal stampede. The ending is rather odd, too.

 

really? that's too bad. i thought you'd like deborah and stewart's relationship.

 

> I was into the film at the outset. I liked how mysterious everything was. I liked the setting. I liked seeing the distrust. But once they started to head back to the States, the film does become very anticlimactic. It could have been much better. Joseph H. Lewis loves to end up in the marshes!

 

very true!

 

> It's the best "horse movie" I ever saw, that's for sure. This was easily the most touching film in this group. It's full of great emotion. I just loved seeing how the new world kills the old world and how ironic it all is. Lots of allegory. This is my first exposure to Gena Rowlands. She was a doll.

 

It is one of my favorite films on a theme I hold dear. Who is really the "imprisoned"?

 

> My reaction was the other way. I enjoyed this little film. Clark Gable is playing my kind of guy. Ava Gardner is playing my kind of girl. Their scenes together are full of emotion and passion. You can just feel it.

 

Yikes, I sure didn't feel it. I mean they were pros and didn't sleepwalk through it but the movie itself really was flat and I can't even remember the plot despite having seen it twice.

 

> Yes it is. You know what happened to me? I had been missing the Marx Brothers, so this film really hit me at the right time. It's very much Harpo's film... which I love. It's certainly not one of their best efforts, namely because Groucho is an afterthought, but since I've grown to really love Harpo, I found the film to be charming.

 

Oh, that's good! And I completely get that. I like some really terrible movies (as you well know) for just that reason. They don't have to be great, if I like the people and their "vibe".

 

> You're very right about Helmut. He makes the film, without a doubt. I think it's a pretty good film with some great tension and some surprising violence. I also love the setting. Errol Flynn is once again spot on. He was made to play these heroic roles.

 

Jackie said it well when she described him as the best at these heroic with a touch of deviltry types. Coop is good at them, too, but he's much more gentle in the main. I think you will enjoy Flynn's westerns. He is very comfortable in them.

 

> I was very impressed by Danny Kaye's versatility. He has quite a bit of range. I hated the songs and the set pieces that came with them, but the actual story is pretty funny. I loved the raunchy ending between Danny and Gene Tierney. Woohoo!

 

I think you have merely been watching movies with the same titles as those I saw, but completely different plots!

 

> I definitely like the idea of the film, but the actual execution fell a bit short for me. I liked when the strangers are together in the first part of the film the most. After that, it's very hit or miss. Bette Davis' segment is the best. That was beautiful.

 

Yes, I like the Bette sequence, too. It is touching. And Wynn is so good at playing those annoying guys yet you feel sorry for him. The picture of Bette he carries is cute!

 

> There's something about Robert Taylor that usually holds me back. It seems like I find him less interesting when he's serious. This is a very serious role for him. I did like Janet Leigh and Anne Francis.

 

I think I understand. You can see him "acting". He's so earnest, trying so hard. His humor disappears. But I really enjoy this movie, and Taylor is just fine with me. I like him better as he aged. Nevertheless, you can see that he was never as at ease with the camera as say, Gable or Coop.

 

 

> I agree. This was the best performance I have seen from Gable. He couldn't just rely on his smile and eyes in this one. I wasn't sure how Gable and Lancaster would mix, but they are exceptional together. I loved the tension in the film. Once again, Robert Wise shows he knows how to make a really tight, thrilling film.

 

I was just as surprised that he and Burt could play so well off each other. It makes we wish Huston's longed-for casting of Gable and Bogart had happened for *The Man Who Would Be King*.

 

> That's in the Mitchum collection I'm looking to get this year. I'm trying to get it for $20. I keep hoping Costco gets it. They had it last year.

 

I hope you do.

 

> This one fell surprisingly short with me. I was expecting to really like it, but it just never pulled me in. The big issues for me were Bogie and William Holden. Bogie's character and his age got in the way. Holden can be hit or miss with me and romance. I prefer him in action. Audrey was darling. She fit perfectly. But there must be more to it. I am perfectly fine with Love in the Afternoon. In fact, I loved that film. Is it because Coop is better playing such roles than Bogie? Was it because I believed Coop to be such a man but not Bogie?

 

It's such a girly, Cinderella tale that I'm not at all surprised you're less than enthused.

 

> I think the film is all of the above. George Marshall made another Destry Rides Again. Fantastic! He sure knew how to mix up the genres in an entertaining way. I love Glenn Ford. He's so darn good. Most of the time, he is quiet but confident. Here, he's a tornado of confidence and he's not quiet at all. Shirley MacLaine reminds me of Gloria Grahame. It almost feels like she took up the mantle for Gloria.

 

She is quirky and has a great figure, I'll give her that. Glenn is very engaging and charismatic in this film.

 

> Paulette Goddard is adorable in the film. And Claudette Colbert almost always wins me over, even though I often enter her films with the feeling, "oh no, Claudette." Veronica Lake is surely outside of her comfort zone for characters!

 

I agree with Jackie and Chris about *Three Came Home*. It's a very grim movie, though, about POWs. Kind of the female version of *Bridge on the River Kwai*, ha. Sessue Hayakawa, once again, is brilliant and even more touching than ever as the Japanese officer.

 

> It seems like a lesser version of Test Pilot. When does Cary Grant play the unlikeable guy? He does here. Jean Harlow is sweet in the film and Franchot Tone is the noble one. I've been running into Franchot a lot in the past few months.

 

Nice man to run into.

 

> This proved to be too much for me. Was it you or Jackie who said Fox loved doing these "segmented" films? I really liked Dick Van Dyke's segment. That actually stole from his show. I did not like Paul Newman and Gene Kelly's segments. They wore me out. Robert Mitchum's was all right. Shirley was pretty good.

 

Jackie must have made that observation and it's spot on. Gene's segment is bad, and should have been edited out.

 

> I really liked it! I loved the relationship between Pat (Spence) and Jamie (Kate). Spence is hilarious during the film. His wisecracks kill me.

 

And I thought he was such a dud in this one! It was like he was trying to let Kate have the movie.

 

 

> I agree with your description of the performers. I liked all three of them. What bothered me was the story. We spend a lot of time listening to Lawrence (Gary Merrill) rebuke all of Cheryl's (Barbara Stanwyck) claims. The time in the asylum was really bad. George Sanders is where I found my most enjoyment.

 

I totally forgot how long the "I don't believe you" bit carried on. You have a point. And you don't cast Stanwyck as a hysterical crank. Yet, like *Rogue Cop*, it's a movie I can easily re-watch than many better films.

 

If you can remember it...what was the name of Mitchum's beloved Bull? I only recall how funny he sounded when he called out his name at that excruciating moment.

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}

> Jackie---i totally forgot about Gene Kelly in *What a Way to Go!*, too...and now I remember it's because he is sooo annoying and grating from the very start. All the other guys I could see what had Shirley interested, but not "Pinky" (even his name annoyed me).

 

I must have completely blocked him out of my mind, I simply couldn't remember him at all, and I think it's because he's just a big jerk right from the get go. Or maybe I used to go get a snack during his segment! I do remember the ending though, I thought that bed in the champagne glass was the height of cool when I was younger. You know, this would make a good double feature with *Penelope*.

 

> And no need to apologize about *Doctor Z*, in fact I'm the one who has to apologize since the whole love story is just wrong on so many levels. I'm in love with the film itself and though I don't go for propaganda or political messages in movies, I thought Lean's commentary on private (individual) life vs. the communistic ideology sweeping the country was very powerfully done. Seeing it all through the eyes (Yuri's/Lean's) of an emotional poet is what gets me, I guess.

 

Oh no, I am not against anyone else liking it! I just can't get past it personally. It's one of the rare movies that brings out the prude in me. I get too mad.

 

I should really like the idea of a poet's view of events. It's right up my alley. I do love the sweep of the picture, politically. It's really very very good at showing the personal take on ideological war, like you said... the fallout for each family during that time. I best like Tom Courtenay's acting and Richardson's. But the Courtenay character, he's so icy cold that it's almost impossible to believe him.

 

I really do love Omar and Julie, they are perfect and act very well. I like them together, but the storyline bothers me enough that I can't fall into it like I want to. Rod Steiger doesn't help, he just gives me the creeps, although at the end he does sort of redeem himself, if you can be redeemed for such a thing. And who wouldn't want that gorgeous little cabin out there in the daffodils? It always makes me laugh, how good a decorator Lara is with nothing on hand.

 

 

 

> Another more problematic Lean film for me is *Ryan's Daughter*. At least in DZ there was the upheaval of an entire regime and way of life to make some "excuse" (though there is no excuse, only selfishness, really) for the upheaval in personal lives...in RD there is only boredom. Which makes it very modern in that respect. Plus, I really do not like Sarah Miles. She's utterly lacking in any humor, but then, so is her character. Mitchum and John Mills are excellent. So is Trevor Howard and, of course, the scenery. The story is almost identical to the love story in DZ except the genders are reversed. It's the wife that is straying.

 

 

I have never seen Ryan's Daughter all the way through, but what I have seen of it, I really liked. I'll have to give it a try and see if I enjoy it any better that Dr.Z. I like Sarah Miles, probably because one of my favorite movies as a kid was *Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines*, another *Great Race* type episodic film with lots of characters thrown together to make one giant television stomping movie.

 

 

> I've seen *Vacation From Marriage* (and always thought by the title it was one of those Debbie Reynolds or Rock Hudson sex comedies of the 1960s) and agree it was extremely realistic. I was quite surprised by how thoroughly it tackles a subject rarely touched-upon in war times (the results of extended separation on a marriage). *The Best Years of Our Lives* does the same, but this movie was much grimmer, I thought, though I don't remember the ending.

 

Yes, the title is just so misleading! I would never have watched it had I been going by the title alone. It covers such a huge topic that absolutely no one else was dealing with. And the acting is superb. What I like is that it's funny and dramatic all in one film. I can't believe I'd never heard of it before, it's a hidden gem. The film does have a very serious dark side, but I think it then swings around deftly to the lighter again by the end. I really enjoyed it, it's one of my favorite discoveries.

 

> I had forgotten about Barbara being locked in the sanatorium in *Witness to Murder*. The story fell short there, especially if you are casting anyone as sensible and believable as Stanwyck. Maybe Gary would have been more excusable to not to believe Gloria Grahame or Lucille Ball.

 

Gloria Grahame would have been killer at this role, Barbara didn't really get that twinge of hysteria that might have really given this film more of a questioning attitude - did she see it or didn't she? That might have been a better angle to direct the film from, it's so straightforward that she really did see it that we are constantly irked by Merrill. But that did up the suspense quotient a lot, wondering how long it would take Sanders to decide to kill her...

 

I agree too about how one can watch these as a light snack, rather than going for the heavier meal movies many times. I expect I will watch it again and again.

 

And speaking of that, Frank, I am so glad you said you were missing the Marx Brothers! That's the greatest thing in the world to me, because so much of the fun of these great comedies is going back to them over time. I feel the same about Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin and Keaton, and to some extent Hope and Crosby and Abbott and Costello. I really do miss them when I haven't had a dose for a while. It's great to me to know you will go back and revisit them.

 

> And I agree *Robin Hood* is one of those "perfect" films that just takes your breath away with how flawless it is start-to-finish.

 

I get reeally goopy over some films, just how perfect they are. It literally chokes me up. Also knowing that war was looming just ahead, and that Hollywood would change so drastically after, makes a movie like Robin Hood or GWTW unattainable for me. These movies are my Twelve Oaks.... something we can only dream about now because they only exist in a dream world.

[movieman1957]

*And speaking of that, Frank, I am so glad you said you were missing the Marx Brothers! That's the greatest thing in the world to me, because so much of the fun of these great comedies is going back to them over time. I feel the same about Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin and Keaton, and to some extent Hope and Crosby and Abbott and Costello. I really do miss them when I haven't had a dose for a while.*

 

I get that way too. One of the things I leave and come back to is classical music. Sometimes I'll go months and not listen to it but when I get back to it I am surprised I let it get away. But I have to sit and listen to it. It's too long to play in the car so it gets away.

 

Like you I have those same things with the Marxes, L&H and Keaton. They are all familiar enough but it is nice to come back and visit. At times there is a nostalgia about them.

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}*And speaking of that, Frank, I am so glad you said you were missing the Marx Brothers! That's the greatest thing in the world to me, because so much of the fun of these great comedies is going back to them over time. I feel the same about Laurel and Hardy and Chaplin and Keaton, and to some extent Hope and Crosby and Abbott and Costello. I really do miss them when I haven't had a dose for a while.*

>

> I get that way too. One of the things I leave and come back to is classical music. Sometimes I'll go months and not listen to it but when I get back to it I am surprised I let it get away. But I have to sit and listen to it. It's too long to play in the car so it gets away.

>

> Like you I have those same things with the Marxes, L&H and Keaton. They are all familiar enough but it is nice to come back and visit. At times there is a nostalgia about them.

 

Gosh, if I couldn't go back and watch the Marxes, life would be a pretty empty and sad place. I have to tell you, after going back to watch Duck Soup recently, I realized that fully half the scenes I loved in Marx Bros. movies were from this film! I think it's one I watched so much, I had to let it rest for a while... I'm glad I did, it was soooo good coming back to it.

[movieman1957]

It is great t obe able to watch "Duck Soup" now. When I came to movies and to the Marx Brothers "Duck Soup" was in rights hell. Nobody had seen it in years. There was no idea when it would come out. The only thing I could get out of it was the book "Why A Duck?" which took stills of their films and printed the dialogue as a caption. ("Animal Crackers" was also out of sight and the author managed to devote an entire book to that film. "Hooray For Captain Spalding.")

 

In my senior high school class will someone left me a wish for screening of it. So, when it turned up on TV some years later that was a huge treat. That is about the only wish that came true out of high school. (There was The Bride but that is a different and later story.)

 

Edited by: movieman1957 on Feb 18, 2013 3:26 PM

[FrankGrimes]

Howdy, Denver! -- *Oh that's right, Dean is Dick's rival! I remember now.*

 

That's correct. Dean is looking to buy out Dick's business. He's the filthy rich "snake." Dick rather be out fishing than making money.

 

*I still don't remember the Gene Kelly part, I must not have liked it. I wonder if he's rather unpleasant in this section? I probably blocked it out. Sometimes I love Gene and then other times he seems.... not so nice, bitter and egotistical.*

 

 

It's the final marriage in the film, so the picture ends on a poor note, except for what happens in Bob Cummings' office.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Do you already have it? How did you do that????!!!*

 

 

TCM played *Vacation from Marriage* in March of 2009. I recorded it because of Deborah.

 

 

*This is one of my cries at how well done a movie is, not the story per se. I just love the way this movie goes so fast, and the directing and acting is just lovely. That fight scene is the best ever, except for maybe Prisoner of Zenda. No, even better than Zenda.*

 

 

I'll have to watch *The Prisoner of Zenda*. It has Maddy Carroll, so that excites me. Unless you are talking about the later version.

 

 

*He may grow on you later. He's one of those who many folks overlook.*

 

 

I think he's too "studio" for me. I haven't seen too much "personal" in his films.

 

 

*Well, I think you probably won't find anything that will change your mind,*

 

 

If I find some more "*The Breaking Point*," I'll start to like him more.

 

 

*but if you watch*

 

 

*Black Fury*

*The Walking Dead*

*The Sea Wolf*

*Dive Bomber*

*The Unsuspected*

*and*

*Flamingo Road*

 

 

*then maybe you will like him better, or maybe not. Those are some of his darker films. I won't make you watch Yankee Doodle Dandy or Elizabeth and Essex, but he was a VERY versatile director and one of my favorites.*

 

 

I'll have to check a couple of those out. I'm leery of the "star" vehicles with directors, especially with the "studio" guys.

 

 

*Errol is the only Robin Hood. It seems amazing to me that no one thought he was a good actor. He's sublimely perfect as Robin. There was never anyone who could touch him for this type of role, the hero with a touch of the devil. And he's so funny, you can't help but love him. It's so effective here.*

 

 

It's too early for me to judge him and his acting ability. I have found him very likeable, ala Clark Gable. It's their charisma and charm. Now *The Dawn Patrol* was a good, dramatic film for him. I also thought he handled the dramatic moments in *Northern Pursuit* quite well, too. *The Adventures of Robin Hood* is just a "swashbuckler," to me. And since I seem to think he's naturally charismatic and very athletic, it's hard to say he's really acting in such roles. It's why I thought Clark Gable was phenomenal in *Run Silent, Run Deep*. He wasn't playing a "Gable" character in that one.

 

 

*Errol was in love with her in real life. I think you can see a difference between their scenes together and any other woman he ever worked with. You can see he really loves her in every look, every gesture. I think because she was a real lady, and he respected her. I think she might have loved him too, but knew he was not the marrying kind. It's rather sad, their story.*

 

 

Sounds like my kind of romance: doomed. I think Olivia being a lady is probably my issue with her. She seems colder than Grace Kelly to me, my favorite "lady" actress. I think of Gene Tierney as a "lady" but she seems warmer than Olivia. Deborah Kerr is a "lady" that I do love. She can be hit or miss with the romance with me. I will say that I seem to like Olivia more when she was older. She's lovely in *Light in the Piazza*. I like her in *The Proud Rebel*.

 

 

*At the very end, King Richard comes home and they all fight against John's men. There's the big fight between Robin and Sir Guy (Basil Rathbone) who goes over the steps. Robin goes to rescue Maid Marian, and the band of merry men start to win against John. Robin lets Marian out of the dungeon cell, and they embrace. The next shot opens with swords being thrown down as the scene opens outward to reveal Richard standing there, and Robin's men dropping their weapons in front of him and kneeling before him. I don't know why I find the throwing down of swords moving.*

 

 

I remembered all of that. I guess the throwing down of the swords is just something I fully expected so I didn't view it as a big deal.

 

 

*Is it the costumes? *

 

 

No, not at all. I like super heroes! I just didn't think there was much to the story and the film lacked the emotion of *Gunga Din* and *The Lives of a Bengal Lancer*. That's what separates those two films from *The Adventures of Robin Hood*.

 

 

*Gunga Din is just as good. I can't really remember Bengal Lancer but I did like it when I was young. Robin Hood is the one from my childhood. I love best the joshing banter of the merry men, and the way they meet, and fight each other before joining the gang. I always liked the scene with Friar Tuck, when they make fun of him being rotund, but then he dunks Robin in the creek. Ditto Little John's scene on the log across the river.*

 

 

And, see, the silliness in the water is the stuff I didn't go for in the film. I was okay with the "Little John" intro. I guess some of the breeziness of the film works for me and some of it doesn't. The opening and closing battles are terrific, though. I think the difference would be that a "crowd pleaser" is a film that I like but I don't always love. If you add the emotion and conflict of the other two films to *The Adventures of Robin Hood*, it would go way up for me. And I think that could be the difference between those directors, too. I like Henry Hathaway and George Stevens more than Michael Curtiz for such reasons.

 

 

*Great! I have a feeling I know what you will say about Desperate Journey.*

 

 

All right! You're already predicting my feelings! I love that stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Those are all good ones. I am very fond of Errol, he's underrated, and always knew it. It bothered him that people only saw him as this guy in tights. I wish he hadn't been so willing to destroy himself.*

 

 

I was slow to reach Flynn because I thought he was an empty actor who starred in films that aren't my speed. It was the same feeling I had about Gable before I started to watch him. I like Gable's charisma and I like Errol's, too. They are fun to watch.

 

 

*Donald Pleasence is a far cry from his roles in Will Penny and the horror films. He's spectacularly, quietly good. He's so underplayed it makes me ache for him. I do cry here too, for him and for little Angus Lennie. And for the fifty. It's a true story.*

 

 

To have seen Donald in *Will Penny* and then see him in *The Great Escape* is remarkable. It's an impressive turnaround. And I can't believe it's based on a true story, too. Talk about amazing.

 

 

*I think the moonshine moment is to set up the drama of what happens right after it, the finding of the tunnels. It's full of unexpected moments. That's what makes it great.*

 

 

Excellent point. You are exactly right. It really does take you from great cheer and joy to fear and sadness.

 

 

*I swear the first time I saw it, I sat there stunned at the fifty scene. I couldn't believe that they got that far only to have that happen. And Charles Bronson, shaking, unable to even breathe with fear? Wow. It's my favorite of his performances. I had a crush on him when I first saw this one. He's so vulnerable.*

 

 

I was pleasantly surprised to see how much screen time Charles Bronson gets in the film. That had to have been his biggest moment to date in his career. How the entire film plays out at the end really took it to another level for me.

 

 

*You were captivated - well, it's one of those movies that everyone says, " I don't like war movies, but I like The Great Escape." It's The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance of war movies.*

 

 

I can definitely understand that. Although, I will say, POW films don't always feel like war films since there are no real attacks going on. Having said that, I do consider such films as war films, just a little different.

 

 

*I always turn it up when the little march comes on. It's humorous and sets the jaunty, almost rebellious tone of the film.*

 

 

That's the perfect description! It really does have a rebellious tone to it. "Jaunty." Very good!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Nope, he's only one of many. It works so well, to set him off from the others. He's seen to very good advantage here. But they all play off each other exceptionally well, each story hinges on the main one. I like Garner here tremendously too, but he's very different from McQueen the other American. I love his scenes with the German guard. I love the Germans here too. None of them is really evil, except for the scene towards the end with the fifty.*

 

 

I feel you are right, it was wise to have Steve McQueen be the "rebellious outsider." It fit him. I really liked James Garner in the film, more so than McQueen. His grand gesture is lovely.

 

 

THE GREAT ESCAPE SPOILED

 

 

I also liked seeing who makes it and who doesn't. It's not who you'd think gets away.

 

 

*Awesome! The student becomes the master, Grasshopper.*

 

 

 

 

*I almost thought I wasn't going to like Jimmy. He pulled it off for me, but I was mad at his reticence, though I understood it. I kind of wished it had been played by someone else.*

 

 

Jimmy's age was the issue for me, particularly with the love story. It called for a younger man. I loved his "honesty." He was telling Eve (Carroll Baker) that he was a guy who couldn't settle down. He had to go to the city to have his fun. But what's great is that he had been lying to himself. He was trying to convince himself that he didn't need to be with a woman. That can be a very difficult decision for some men.

 

 

*And the way they set up certain scenes, with deep deep background. Someone would be framed by the landscape, or the river, for instance, in that scene where the little group was attacked by the merchant's henchmen. You could see for miles, and the set ups for Jimmy sneaking up on them were beautiful. Man really was dwarfed by nature. I wish that it had had one vision, though, the film was a bit choppy, and would have been better had they stuck with that original viewpoint. One director I guess.*

 

 

That's a beautiful example of the wonderful framing in the film, Jackie. The frame was completely filled with the surroundings. The people are shown to be quite small, ala John Ford or *The Big Trail*.

 

 

*Oh I don't know, I really am liking Mutiny on the Bounty lately. Wait do you mean the 1935 one? I can't even get through the other.*

 

 

Yes, the Gable/Laughton one.

 

 

*It's definitely more compact a film than Bounty. Very tight, and I'm not talking about just the living quarters. The film is kind of spare. Right to the point. But of course that's Wise all the way.*

 

 

Yes, you are very right about that. That really is Robert Wise.

 

 

*I think Frank Lloyd, the director of Bounty was a little longwinded, but it works for me in Bounty. He tended to do specialized work in costume pictures, but I like the manliness in Bounty. It doesn't pull any punches and it's not frilly or anything. It's just a little bit long. But the shots of the ships and the rigging, are tremendously beautiful, and the wrecking of the boats is exciting.*

 

 

When they end up on the island, I just want to leave the picture. It seems like they are there forever. I also prefer the relationship between Gable and Lancaster. It's terrific.

 

 

*I can see that Canterbury Tale feeling totally. All those different people with different backgrounds working to do something good. I think it's the Tourneur-ism of the movie that I like, the feel.*

 

 

You've got it. These strangers are thrown together via the train and they end up getting together to figure out a mystery.

 

 

*In Brief Encounter they never succumb. They really are kept apart, by their own sense of nobility and goodness. they know they will absolutely destroy everyones lives. The voice over is just fantastic, and Celia Johnson is an overwhelmingly great actress. Plus there is this incredibly beautiful and TRUE script, which describes love and heartache so well.*

 

 

That's magnificent, Jackie. I do understand all of what you described. It rings true with *Brief Encounter*. *Doctor Zhivago* starts out this way. The first part is "*Brief Encounter*" in terms of how the two view each other and have burning desires inside of them. The second part is where it's different.

 

 

*I find none of this in Dr. Zhivago. I don't find any real passion between Sharif and Christie, and the script is not something I can relate to. There are no truisms in it that I can latch onto. I don't care. I don't even really care about Chaplin much either, and I find her more sympathetic. They all are awful in their own way. I find all the characters unpleasant. Sorry, MissG!*

 

 

I actually had the exact opposite reaction to Yuri (Omar Sharif), Lara (Julie Christie), and Tonya (Geraldine Chaplin). I felt for all of them. I cared about all of them. I understand the feelings of love for more than one. That is a "truism" to me.

 

 

Yuri really fell for Lara during the revolution. It wasn't about passion, but respect. He really liked her as a woman, he respected her as a woman. Lara had the exact same feelings for Yuri. But they both knew there was a wall between them.

 

 

Tonya is so lovely. She's the woman at home, patiently waiting for her husband, worrying about him. She's to be adored.

 

 

I believe Yuri did love both of them, it's just his love for Lara was stronger. I believe it's because he saw more of himself in her. Lara even tells him that his poems are about himself, not her. Yuri also seemed to be more protective of Lara because of what he saw of her when she was seventeen.

 

 

I loved how Tonya still worried about Yuri and cared about him. Her final gestures were noble and good, ala *Brief Encounter*.

 

 

*No. :DI agree with you pretty much on this film. I do almost always like Gary Merrill, but he was the agent of the whole rebuking part, which was a flaw in the script to me.*

 

 

You just want to slap the guy after a while. He finds every reason not to believe Cheryl (Barbara Stanwyck), yet he seemingly sees no reason to doubt Richter (George Sanders). Granted, Richter's lies are so believable. *Rear Window* does the police doubt much better since it doesn't dwell on it like *Witness to Murder* does. There are other things going on *Rear Window*, too. This helps to fill out the film. *Witness to Murder* shoves us in an insane asylum. It goes too far.

 

 

*Most definitely. And she's so gamine, so loving, so longing here. Here's a film that is filled with the truth of longing for someone completely unsuited for you. An image you made up in your mind of someone.*

 

 

That's another wonderful description. Sabrina (Audrey Hepburn) is clearly viewing love through young eyes. She wants to be the girl the "prince" chooses. That would make her "important." But then she starts to spend time with Linus (Humphrey Bogart) and she starts to like the man.

 

 

I always think the most important thing about a relationship is how the person makes you feel, particularly about yourself. Do they lift you up? The toughest part about that is understanding why a person lifts you up. David (William Holden) did help to lift Sabrina, but only in how she saw herself. So that's all about image. But who lifts you up emotionally?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I prefer Maurice Chevalier to John what's his name as the dad, but he's very good too.*

 

 

Oh, without a doubt. And I say that also liking John Williams.

 

 

*And Billy Wilder is just marvelous at getting that sort of upper class/lower class thing, and the European ambience of the film, the fashion of it.*

 

 

And I think Audrey is the perfect facilitator of this feeling.

 

 

*I do like Bogie, but he's a bit spotty here, one time too cold, one time too harsh... as in the olive scene with his dad, which is funny, but the one scene I cringe at, he seems too mean there. But he's such a pro, I do end up believing him in the end with Audrey.*

 

 

I just have a difficult time seeing Bogie in this kind of role, and his age is a big reason. But, like I said, I completely see an older Gary Cooper in *Love in the Afternoon*.

 

 

I liked the "olive" scene. Maybe because my impatience with that is similar. I thought Mr. Larrabee (Walter Hampden) was very funny in the picture. He was the funniest part of the film, for me, actually.

 

 

[FrankGrimes]

Hi there, Capuchin -- *Credit my dad. "The talk" consisted of telling me to save every letter from any woman, immediately write it down every time a woman mentioned liking or hating something, and flower shops would take standing orders for arrangements on birthdays and anniversaries and would ring you up a few days early to see if you wanted to spring for something special that year.*

 

That's wonderful advice! Did he have any advice for dealing with snippy women?

 

*It's easy to seem romantic if you get it down to a system. *

 

Who would have thought a system to be romantic?

 

*She'd view it as a challenge to get you to watch the rest.*

 

That's funny!

 

*The Borrowed Castle is Hungarian. We watched it with Russian subtitles. Since Cyrillic isn't my forte, she read it to me. It's the most paused, rewound, and replayed movie I've ever watched because she often broke down laughing and couldn't keep up.*

 

Now that's a great story. I love the shared moments with great laughter.

[MissGoddess]

Thanks for posting my favorite line in *Sabrina* by Bogart! I think he's sublime there. Looking so absurd, hating it and mad but still unable to deny the ridiculous picture he makes. I don't think Gary could have delivered the necessary irony. And Bogart was really only playing a man closest to his own rather tony background. It's a testament to his acting that he made the tough guys seem like the "real" Bogart.

 

I love what you wrote about Zhivago. Last night they actually played it on TCM! I had no idea. I watched about the last hour, I couldn't resist, and again I was "prostrate with grief" as Mammy would say, ha ha. I still think it's one of the most ravishing movies ever made. You could hang up frames from the movie on your wall, they're like paintings....or John Ford images. And call me crazy but I see so much of Ford in the cinematography and symbolism. How a flickering candle stands for the fragility of the human spirit in stormy icy (inhuman) conditions...looking into windows...the smallness of humans on the snowy landscape...the mowing down of the small boys from the military academy (lean playing for tragedy what Ford could only bring himself to film with satire in The Horse Soldiers). And Lean's wonderful visual "quote" from *Lawrence*...reversed: Omar rode into the screen slowly, a lone, heroic figure tracking toward us across the vast desert whereas in *Zhivago*, he tracks away from the camera, stumbling and defeated and almost out of his mind across the barren steppes. What a gut wrenching scene if you've seen Lawrence.

 

Then those moments at Varykino (sp?), the "summer place" turned into an icy tomb and the irony suddenly hit me. Not only had he spent his most idyllic years of his childhood their, but it was his and Tonya's refuge from Moscow. Only they stayed in the "humble" cottage whereas he is taking his other love, Lara, to the main house which looked eerily like the Taj Mahal with its frozen bulbous turrets...and The Taj Mahal is a tomb for a dead love. Inside, it's like a mausoleum, too. A thin veil of dust and ice over everything. Only the thin candle and a spot of red from the stove and Lara's golden hair seems alive. I love the scene where they are alone, sitting together watching Katja playing and Lara begins to speak of the mundane things lovers talk about. "If we'd had children, what would you want more, a boy or a girl?" Because she knows she's carrying his child and she's not going to tell him yet since everything is so uncertain. It's a beautiful shot just before Komarovsky enters, when she grabs Katja and holds her.

 

There is no denying the wrong that Yuri does Tonya, but Lean doesn't deny it and neither do Lara and Yuri. Yuri especially is tormented by his treachery. He's such a good man, really. In all that carnage he's the only man whose hands remain clean of blood. He won't take a life. He's not only a doctor, pledged to do no harm but he's a poet who looks for the "why" behind things and their spiritual, not just material, significance. I think Lean tries to, in his own way.

 

Honestly if Ford didn't already have my heart as a director, Lean would be next in line.

 

I had no idea until last night that it was Jack McGowran who played Petya, the servant at Varykino!

[FrankGrimes]

Howdy, Queen of the Furies! -- *I think that sounds like a GREAT way to spend a Saturday night.. bachelor or not. I bet it was fun to get to see your niece too.. good for you. I hope you had a good time. What sorts of games do you and the Grey Fam like?*

 

Our current game list:

 

Love Letter

Family Business

Guillotine

Fluxx (Martian, Zombie, Cthulhu, Wizard of Oz)

Clue (At Sea, Harry Potter, Discover the Secrets)

Alfred Hitchcock "Why"

13 Dead End Drive

Bang!

Kill Dr. Lucky

Killer Bunnies

 

*(We're big on Yahtzee around here.. ha. And also like Clue.. but lately the Wii is where all the action is at. I tend to be just a spectator on all THAT though, ha. As I am no "electronic wizard" but I WILL sometimes do the bowling on Wii sports.. and I also like to play Wheel of Fortune on the Wii too. ha. That is about the limit of my electronic game genious. (ha.. I just have NEVER been the same sinceny glory days way back in the 80's. ha.. at one time.. ha.. I was a wiz at Ms. Pac Man. Alas.. those days are likely at an end for me. My hand/eye coordination has.. well.. more or less bit the dust. (did I mentino alas??? )*

 

And I don't picture you being a wiz at Ms. Pac-Man! The only video game I play now is EA's NHL on the PlayStation 3. I used to play Atari and games on the Commodore 64 when I was a kid.

 

*Ha.. I have NO idea what you are talking about.. (oh who am I kidding?? Of COURSE I do. ha) It's true.. I do like a level of "conflict". But sometimes I confess it can be too much for some "love stories" If it is just fight, fight, fight all the time it can wear me down. (unless it is done well.. some movies handle the "fight" better than others... so it really just depends on a lot of things why I might or might not enjoy a "fiestier" romantic story sometimes)*

 

So are you telling me *Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?* isn't your favorite marital film of all?

 

*I suppose that is one way to look at it. I also thjnk it is an excellent example of the redemptive power a loving heart can have on someone else. And how to love someone even when they are being "un-loveble". It is a conscious choice... the wife remaining true.. despite the failures of her husband. And it shows how her love for him effects HIS heart.. and the way it brings him back to his "right mind" so to speak. He'd become a different person for a time.. but she was able to win him.. by her willingness to love him, even though he clearly deserved to lose her. It really is an amazing and beautiful story.*

 

I view it as a lovely cautionary tale. As for the "other side" of adultery, it's never an easy place to be and always a difficult decision. Can a relationship ever be the same?

 

*No.. Hondo is not necessarily a good "marriage' story.. but it does have a really good "romance factor" though I confess.. I struggle with it sometimes because I think (at the time of that one scene) her husband is still alive. I can't deny it has its "issues"but I think if things had NOT played out the way they did in the end.. that "moment" is as far as their relationship would ever have gone. In fact, I am sure of it. But because it DOES end up the way it does.. it makes me appreciate the earlier moment in the story a bit more, I guess.*

 

I'd agree with that. It's definitely a film where there is a line and it's almost crossed. It's only crossed emotionally.

 

*Another good western that might be a BETTER example of "marital"love would of course be Shane. The dad in that movie absolutely loved his wife.. and I think she loved him too. Yes.. Shane may well have been attracted to her..in fact I feel certain he was.. and it could be argued (and I think was argued by some a few years ago.. ha) that she has affections for him too that went beyond just caring what happened to him. I don't know if I would fall into that camp or not. I would really (really) have to think about it some more. But again.. I feel certain the "marriage" in that family was a loving one..and maybe a good example of how hard times might test a relationship.. but can be risen above, eventually.. if two people really do care for one another.*

 

That's an excellent example of a "marital" film. You can put me in the camp of Marian (Jean Arthur) falling for Shane (Alan Ladd). I believe she loved her husband (Van Heflin) more, but she was quite taken by Shane. He brought her to life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Ha.. well.. it is true, I NEVER have seen the movie.. but I DID (true confession time) used to own the soundtrack album. ha. (didn't everyone back in the 70's???) :DI actually still could say that I like some of the music.. but OH me.. leave the disco ball at home. ha. I have no use for it. *

 

What? What?! You actually had the album?! You're starting to surprise me!

 

*well I confess, generally speaking I am no huge "Audrey" fan. I would say listing those two would be me listing about my two most favorite movies for her. (though I am sure I could also list one or two more.. these two would be the most favorite) And I have NO idea why I even included My Fair Lady on a list of favorite "romances' ha. There is hardly a "romantic" moment in the whole movie. ha. But I do just like the way Henry Higgins finally realizes he DOES love her after all.. it is a "quiet" moment.. but I like how she comes back to him at the end too. No bells and whistles.. just affection. It is worth sitting all the way through the whole LONNNNGGG drawn out story just to get to that bit of "happiness" in the end of it all.*

 

Now that sounds more like the woman I thought I knew. And I do love your placing a great deal of value on the small moments and gestures of love. That's really sweet. Very Fordian.

 

How I have liked Audrey, thus far:

 

1. Love in the Afternoon

2. Charade

3. Roman Holiday

4. Breakfast at Tiffany's

5. Wait Until Dark

6. Sabrina

7. The Nun's Story

 

*He really enjoyed watching it with me. I have to say the beginning WAS much "soapier" than I remembered. ha. Almost BORDERING on "chick flick"*

 

That's right. And I was all right with the soap. I just wasn't sure if your husband would go for it or not.

 

*but it DID finally pick up speed and turn the corner.. not too long after Veronica shows up, actually. By the time it was over, I was remembering WHY I was so fond of it. It is very riveting in places. Those bombings really are quite startling. And ha.. I have to confess, a couple of times I just wanted to look away (and it reallly wasn't all that graphic.. just very intense)*

 

You're right, it's a very intense film. And the bombings feel realistic. You just feel the terror. It's a good film and a good suggestion by you. You succeeded!

 

*I also got a mental image of how great it would be to have watched They Were Expendable BEFORE you watch this one.. and watch them together. (because it could almost be like the "to be continued" version of Donna Reed's character from TWE. ha. She COULD have been one of those nurses and all those trials MIGHT have been what she was going through as the Duke and Robert Montgomery were leaving and he was just left to wonder what happens to her. And then (mini spoiler alert) to NOT know for sure what is going to happen to Claudette Colbert's husband at the end. Left me with a similar feeling for the romance between the Duke and Donna Reed too. ) Next time I decide to see either of these movies, I think I will try to remember to watch them both together and see if I still feel this way, but that is how it all played out for me this afternoon.*

 

That's a good comparison. The relationship between Rusty (John Wayne) and Sandy (Donna Reed) is very similar to the ones in *So Proudly We Hail!* .

 

*It is.. but she is young enough to not really view it as anything racier than say.. a loony toon character w/ his eys bulging out and a huge heart beating out of his chest. ha.( wish I knew which on to google.. but y ou know the sort of moment I mean) ha. So I hope her "racy-o-meter" is still in tact for the moment (thanfully) ha.. because at least the scene is not "graphic" in its raciness. She sees it more as a "love at first sight turning him into a total nutcase" kinda moment" ha.. like i described from the cartoons.. So for her.. it comes off more 'funny" than racy. (thankfully)*

 

And I think she actually sees it right. I do believe it was played to be "love at first sight" and nothing more. But whenever you see a man going crazy over seeing a woman undress, well...

 

 

*Basll Rathbone is playing the role of "Scrooge*

 

*Now THAT one is a bit of a stretch for me. ha.*

 

Why so? He's a mean man who cares about money above all else. He also controls the well-being of the "Cratchits" and he just doesn't care about them. He's worried about making money.

 

 

*Ha.. yes.. only the Ghosts of Christmas Past/ Present/Future are a bit nicer than his visitor is. I somehow think Adolphe is not very interested in helping him see the error of his ways. He's just there for a quick snack while he is "out and about" slithering by. *

 

Well, Adolphe is part of the "*Arsenic and Old Lace* equation in the story, not *A Christmas Carol*.

 

*I confess I had not had time to read through everything when I asked that. I'll go back in soon and take a closer look*

 

She wrote a lot in reply to me, so most of the films may end up being discussed.

[FrankGrimes]

*Thanks for posting my favorite line in Sabrina by Bogart!* *I think he's sublime there. Looking so absurd, hating it and mad but still unable to deny the ridiculous picture he makes.*

 

It is? I had no idea. You are welcome. That scene says a lot about how Linus feels about his feelings for Sabrina and himself.

 

*I don't think Gary could have delivered the necessary irony. And Bogart was really only playing a man closest to his own rather tony background. It's a testament to his acting that he made the tough guys seem like the "real" Bogart.*

 

Oh, I wasn't saying Coop could play "Linus." He wouldn't be good in such a role, either. I was saying I'm okay with Coop's age in *Love in the Afternoon* because I felt he fit that character. But in *Sabrina*, Bogie didn't seem to fit, to me.

 

*I love what you wrote about Zhivago.*

 

Wow! Thank you! That's high praise coming from you, since the film is a favorite of yours.

 

*Last night they actually played it on TCM! I had no idea.*

 

I had no idea, either.

 

*I watched about the last hour, I couldn't resist, and again I was "prostrate with grief" as Mammy would say, ha ha. I still think it's one of the most ravishing movies ever made. You could hang up frames from the movie on your wall, they're like paintings....or John Ford images. And call me crazy but I see so much of Ford in the cinematography and symbolism. How a flickering candle stands for the fragility of the human spirit in stormy icy (inhuman) conditions...looking into windows...the smallness of humans on the snowy landscape...the mowing down of the small boys from the military academy (lean playing for tragedy what Ford could only bring himself to film with satire in The Horse Soldiers).*

 

Now that was lovely. You know, I did think of Ford for two moments in the film. The one is definitely the one you mention, the "boy soldiers." The other is a small touch, like the ones you also mentioned above. It was smoke coming out of the chimney. It was a lovely shorthand of home and hearth, of a warm, loving place. Now juxtapose that to the ice palace of Yuri and Lara.

 

*And Lean's wonderful visual "quote" from Lawrence...reversed: Omar rode into the screen slowly, a lone, heroic figure tracking toward us across the vast desert whereas in Zhivago, he tracks away from the camera, stumbling and defeated and almost out of his mind across the barren steppes. What a gut wrenching scene if you've seen Lawrence.*

 

 

I've yet to watch *Lawrence of Arabia*, so I'm not sure how that all plays. But what you describe sounds dead on.

 

*Then those moments at Varykino (sp?), the "summer place" turned into an icy tomb and the irony suddenly hit me. Not only had he spent his most idyllic years of his childhood their, but it was his and Tonya's refuge from Moscow. Only they stayed in the "humble" cottage whereas he is taking his other love, Lara, to the main house which looked eerily like the Taj Mahal with its frozen bulbous turrets...and The Taj Mahal is a tomb for a dead love. Inside, it's like a mausoleum, too. A thin veil of dust and ice over everything. Only the thin candle and a spot of red from the stove and Lara's golden hair seems alive.*

 

Magnificent! That's a fantastic distinction between how Yuri and Tonya's existence was and how he and Lara end up. Yuri and Lara really are living a dead love, even though their love for each other is very alive.

 

*I love the scene where they are alone, sitting together watching Katja playing and Lara begins to speak of the mundane things lovers talk about. "If we'd had children, what would you want more, a boy or a girl?" Because she knows she's carrying his child and she's not going to tell him yet since everything is so uncertain. It's a beautiful shot just before Komarovsky enters, when she grabs Katja and holds her.*

 

 

That really is a nice moment. And all of the nice moments in *Doctor Zhivago* always end abruptly. The outside world forces its way in. Reality doesn't allow for the beautiful.

 

*There is no denying the wrong that Yuri does Tonya, but Lean doesn't deny it and neither do Lara and Yuri. Yuri especially is tormented by his treachery. He's such a good man, really. In all that carnage he's the only man whose hands remain clean of blood. He won't take a life. He's not only a doctor, pledged to do no harm but he's a poet who looks for the "why" behind things and their spiritual, not just material, significance. I think Lean tries to, in his own way.*

 

 

That was lovely. There is some irony with Yuri being a good and decent man who could not hurt anyone through violence since he ends up hurting Tonya, her father, and their two children.

 

*Honestly if Ford didn't already have my heart as a director, Lean would be next in line.*

 

Really? Now that surprises me. Are you saying "heart," meaning you like his romance? Or are you saying he would be your second favorite director, ahead of someone like Hitch? In terms of romance, I believe Lubitsch might be my favorite. Max Ophuls is probably second.

 

 

*I had no idea until last night that it was Jack McGowran who played Petya, the servant at Varykino!*

 

Who? I don't remember him.

[MissGoddess]

> Oh, I wasn't saying Coop could play "Linus." He wouldn't be good in such a role, either. I was saying I'm okay with Coop's age in *Love in the Afternoon* because I felt he fit that character. But in *Sabrina*, Bogie didn't seem to fit, to me.

>

 

He was not happy in the movie, nor, do I think, was Gary Cooper. Neither men seemed to click well with Wilder. Perhaps because he was throwing so much of both movies to Audrey. Bogart especially was, partly due to illness, irritated with how many takes she always needed in a scene.

 

>

> Now that was lovely. You know, I did think of Ford for two moments in the film. The one is definitely the one you mention, the "boy soldiers." The other is a small touch, like the ones you also mentioned above. It was smoke coming out of the chimney. It was a lovely shorthand of home and hearth, of a warm, loving place. Now juxtapose that to the ice palace of Yuri and Lara.

>

 

It's a fitting end to everything, really. When winter comes...

 

> I've yet to watch *Lawrence of Arabia*, so I'm not sure how that all plays. But what you describe sounds dead on.

>

 

I have to see LoA again---from start to finish---to really evaluate it fairly. It lacks a romance between man and woman, it's more a romance between a man and an idea.

 

>

> Magnificent! That's a fantastic distinction between how Yuri and Tonya's existence was and how he and Lara end up. Yuri and Lara really are living a dead love, even though their love for each other is very alive.

>

 

Exactly. It's as if it all had to come to this for it to really come alive. It's in the poems that their love actually lives. It's why it had to end as it does, so sadly. I hate seeing the last few scenes, the awful, wretched way Lara and Yuri end up and how young Tonya (their daughter...it's strange that Lara named her after Yuri's wife...) becomes lost. It's the most vile thing Komarovsky ever did.

 

It's like in Ford films where the love really comes alive after death. The way the men still speak to their wives' portraits and graves. Memory can be more powerful than reality.

 

> That really is a nice moment. And all of the nice moments in *Doctor Zhivago* always end abruptly. The outside world forces its way in. Reality doesn't allow for the beautiful.

>

 

So true! The inhuman and material is always savagely tearing at the human and spiritual. That man, the Red Guard leader, I forget his name---the one in the latter part of the film who captured Yuri and wouldn't let him go. He was no longer a human being. He was worse even than Strelnikov (Pascha), who after all, succumbed to being but a man in the end.

 

> That was lovely. There is some irony with Yuri being a good and decent man who could not hurt anyone through violence since he ends up hurting Tonya, her father, and their two children.

>

 

This is something Lean does so well. As in Ford, characters are not judged by him, they're presented with often disturbing weaknesses and flaws. After all, don't we love Ralph Richardson despite the fact that he contributed to maintaining a system that brutally deprived so many of the basics in life? He's such an adorable man it's hard to judge him, either.

 

> Really? Now that surprises me. Are you saying "heart," meaning you like his romance? Or are you saying he would be your second favorite director, ahead of someone like Hitch? In terms of romance, I believe Lubitsch might be my favorite. Max Ophuls is probably second.

>

 

I guess I mean in terms of his command of the screen and visual power. He can present grand themes visually and emotionally just as well as Ford can.

 

Hitch and Lubitsch are perfection but they rarely go beyond the individual characters to tackle universal themes other than sex.

 

>

> Who? I don't remember him.

>

 

I wish I had the movie on DVD to screencap. But Jack was "Feeney", Red Will Danagher's (Vic McLaglen) whipping boy in *The Quiet Man* and the poteen maker (moonshiner) in *Rising of the Moon*. He's also in *Young Cassidy*.

[FrankGrimes]

*He was not happy in the movie, nor, do I think, was Gary Cooper. Neither men seemed to click well with Wilder. Perhaps because he was throwing so much of both movies to Audrey. Bogart especially was, partly due to illness, irritated with how many takes she always needed in a scene.*

 

I can believe that in both of their cases. I'm sure they both had become impatient with age. They had been on so many sets, so they probably had their own idea of how a production should go.

 

I didn't know Audrey was that fussy.

 

*I have to see LoA again---from start to finish---to really evaluate it fairly. It lacks a romance between man and woman, it's more a romance between a man and an idea.*

 

 

I'll probably be all right with a man and his idea, especially since it's Lean's man and most likely his own idea. I may get the DVD this year. *Ryan's Daughter* is the next "Lean" film for me.

 

*Exactly. It's as if it all had to come to this for it to really come alive. It's in the poems that their love actually lives. It's why it had to end as it does, so sadly. I hate seeing the last few scenes, the awful, wretched way Lara and Yuri end up and how young Tonya (their daughter...it's strange that Lara named her after Yuri's wife...) becomes lost. It's the most vile thing Komarovsky ever did.*

 

 

I believe you are right. Yuri's entire idea of love and beauty is sparked by Lara, hence his poems about her.

 

I'm guessing Lara felt both guilty and thankful in regards to Tonya. She probably named the child after her because of that.

 

*It's like in Ford films where the love really comes alive after death. The way the men still speak to their wives' portraits and graves. Memory can be more powerful than reality.*

 

 

That's good! And I do believe love does carry a different kind of strength when it's remembered or even imagined. I feel Yuri's love for Lara is a mix of reality, remembrance, and imagination. He's projecting a lot with her.

 

*So true! The inhuman and material is always savagely tearing at the human and spiritual. That man, the Red Guard leader, I forget his name---the one in the latter part of the film who captured Yuri and wouldn't let him go. He was no longer a human being. He was worse even than Strelnikov (Pascha), who after all, succumbed to being but a man in the end.*

 

 

You make a very good point about how inhumanity and materialism really does come to threaten love and beauty. Pasha (Tom Courtenay) just lost his way. He fell in love with his ideals and abandoned any love for people. The machine was more beautiful to him. And I think David Lean does a wonderful job of mixing all of these themes in the film. How many political films are romances?

 

*This is something Lean does so well. As in Ford, characters are not judged by him, they're presented with often disturbing weaknesses and flaws. After all, don't we love Ralph Richardson despite the fact that he contributed to maintaining a system that brutally deprived so many of the basics in life? He's such an adorable man it's hard to judge him, either.*

 

 

I completely agree. And I think this is because both Ford and Lean made personal films. After hearing about Lean from you, he's clearly casting himself in his films.

 

*Hitch and Lubitsch are perfection but they rarely go beyond the individual characters to tackle universal themes other than sex.*

 

 

Hitch's universal theme would be fear. Lubitsch does make some commentaries about the classes. Sex is definitely a major component to both director's works. That definitely attracts me!

 

*I wish I had the movie on DVD to screencap. But Jack was "Feeney", Red Will Danagher's (Vic McLaglen) whipping boy in The Quiet Man and the poteen maker (moonshiner) in Rising of the Moon. He's also in Young Cassidy.*

 

I actually do know of him because of Ford. But I certainly didn't catch him in *Doctor Zhivago*.

 

And are you telling me you don't have *Doctor Zhivago* on DVD? That can't be possible.

[MissGoddess]

> I didn't know Audrey was that fussy.

>

 

I don't believe she was, she was just young and inexperienced and no doubt intimidated by these older professionals. Holden did his best to make up for it!

 

> I'll probably be all right with a man and his idea, especially since it's Lean's man and most likely his own idea. I may get the DVD this year. *Ryan's Daughter* is the next "Lean" film for me.

>

 

That is one I'm coming around to, though it bothers because I don't really like Sarah Miles or her character or the man she has an affair with. Mitchum is not the stuff of dreams, he's a simple, plain man. I was bored by him the first time I watched, ha. So immature.

 

> I believe you are right. Yuri's entire idea of love and beauty is sparked by Lara, hence his poems about her.

>

 

She's a mystery to him. I like the way he first sees her, just her hand, in the dark, then at the end of the film, it's Yuri who is filmed in the shadow and the light falls on Lara.

 

I also like how both women were filmed ironing. The sound the iron makes. It's soothing, strangely.

 

>

> I'm guessing Lara felt both guilty and thankful in regards to Tonya. She probably named the child after her because of that.

>

>

 

The women are quite admiring of one another. I know I wouldn't be!

 

> That's good! And I do believe love does carry a different kind of strength when it's remembered or even imagined. I feel Yuri's love for Lara is a mix of reality, remembrance, and imagination. He's projecting a lot with her.

>

 

He's so observant of her but I wonder if he really sees her as she is. Or anyone, he's a poet so he sees into people, many of their secrets, but he's putting those observations through a funnel of creativity, meaning and ideals.

 

 

DZ SPOILER

 

He starts out somewhat naive, but is curious and observant and in the end, is quite perceptive, but knowledge of what man is capable of changes him subtly. And of course, he really does die of a broken heart. Not just of Lara, but of everything lost.

 

>

>

> You make a very good point about how inhumanity and materialism really does come to threaten love and beauty. Pasha (Tom Courtenay) just lost his way. He fell in love with his ideals and abandoned any love for people. The machine was more beautiful to him. And I think David Lean does a wonderful job of mixing all of these themes in the film. How many political films are romances?

>

 

Exactly! It's amazing how both types of emotional appeals are so strongly presented. Yet I like the what you might call "humanism" of Lean's "politics". He really doesn't take sides. He shows that both tradition and ideology can be murderous.

 

>

> I completely agree. And I think this is because both Ford and Lean made personal films. After hearing about Lean from you, he's clearly casting himself in his films.

>

 

I think Lean was very much a man of ideas or creativity and passion. These were monumental films, they could have so easily fallen apart without a really strong and clear vision behind them.

 

> And are you telling me you don't have *Doctor Zhivago* on DVD? That can't be possible.

>

 

I just remembered I do! I haven't gone through my DVD-rs in a long time.

[FrankGrimes]

*I don't believe she was, she was just young and inexperienced and no doubt intimidated by these older professionals. Holden did his best to make up for it!*

 

Oh, boy. And I thought today was bad!

 

*That is one I'm coming around to, though it bothers because I don't really like Sarah Miles or her character or the man she has an affair with. Mitchum is not the stuff of dreams, he's a simple, plain man. I was bored by him the first time I watched, ha. So immature. *

 

You still don't like simple and plain! I'm rather surprised to hear Robert Mitchum is that guy. I can't see him being simple and plain.

 

 

*She's a mystery to him. I like the way he first sees her, just her hand, in the dark, then at the end of the film, it's Yuri who is filmed in the shadow and the light falls on Lara.*

 

I didn't catch the later shot you're talking about. The first shot was a great one. Lara really was a mystery to Yuri, and I feel that was certainly a great attraction for him. Some people love the comfort of knowing someone (I'm one of those) and others just get tired of knowing someone and find more appeal with the new.

 

 

*I also like how both women were filmed ironing. The sound the iron makes. It's soothing, strangely.*

 

This doesn't surprise me, Miss Clean! I actually didn't know they both used the iron in the film. Iron Curtain? The scenes of working in and around the home is another Fordian aspect. Uhhhhh, that would not be Hitchock and Lubitsch.

 

*The women are quite admiring of one another. I know I wouldn't be!*

 

I'm sure you wouldn't! And maybe this is Lean being guilty of idealizing. But love does end up being stronger than hate with Lara and Tonya.

 

 

*He's so observant of her but I wonder if he really sees her as she is. Or anyone, he's a poet so he sees into people, many of their secrets, but he's putting those observations through a funnel of creativity, meaning and ideals.*

 

That's rather deep. I'd say Tonya is more of a pure reality whereas Lara is some idealistic dream.

 

DZ SPOILER

 

*He starts out somewhat naive, but is curious and observant and in the end, is quite perceptive, but knowledge of what man is capable of changes him subtly. And of course, he really does die of a broken heart. Not just of Lara, but of everything lost.*

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, I like that. Yuri really is just as good and pure as Tonya but the hell he lives through starts to push him towards dreams. So, in a way, Tonya and Lara come to represent different views of the Russia he knew and wishes to know.

 

*Exactly! It's amazing how both types of emotional appeals are so strongly presented. Yet I like the what you might call "humanism" of Lean's "politics". He really doesn't take sides. He shows that both tradition and ideology can be murderous.*

 

 

That's quite right. Lean is very even-handed. And this is why I come away liking Yuri, Lara, and Tonya. Lean isn't playing one against the other. Pasha is shown to have two sides. Even Yevgraf (Alec Guinness) is this way. Komarovsky (Rod Steiger) is the one guy you just cannot trust. He usually knows the score and is always looking to win.

 

And I do feel Lean is very "humanist." All of the films I have seen of his are about human failings. I can't say that I have seen any other director make this their primary focus.

 

 

*I think Lean was very much a man of ideas or creativity and passion. These were monumental films, they could have so easily fallen apart without a really strong and clear vision behind them.*

 

 

From what I've seen, I'd agree with that. To see him go from *Brief Encounter* to *Doctor Zhivago* is quite an evolution. He's clearly an artist with strong feelings.

 

*I just remembered I do! I haven't gone through my DVD-rs in a long time.*

 

You don't have the commercial DVD? You?! It's not that expensive.

[FrankGrimes]

Bonjour, Fordy Guns -- *this board is driving me nuts. i click on "quote" and all i get are thousands of miles of blank lines.*

 

I haven't encountered that. Or maybe I just haven't noticed it.

 

*There is music in The Adventures of Robin Hood ? *

 

 

*very much so!*

 

 

Jackie agreed with you!

 

 

*it's a very meaningful message.*

 

 

Not to me! You would be telling your man, "serves you right," as you swat him!

 

 

*I admit I prefer TRtG a little more. Maybe because there is a romance. But The Dawn Patrol is excellent.*

 

 

I prefer *The Dawn Patrol*, but it's close. I like Errol Flynn and David Niven more than Fredric March and Warner Baxter. And I do like March and Baxter as actors. I believe *The Road to Glory* 's war scenes are better.

 

 

*I suppose two cobras have to be careful when they embrace.*

 

 

That's hilarious! A very apt (or asp) description of Stephen (Stewart Granger) and Lily (Jean Simmons) in *Footsteps in the Fog*.

 

 

*I've now reached 50 films with Coop. I may post my list on the "Coop" thread and ask for some guidance. I know which film you'd say I still need to see the most.*

 

 

*you do? i don't!*

 

 

It's a film you have suggested I watch, more than once. The reason I haven't is because it's in a box set that refuses to drop in price.

 

 

*yes, the last part is the highlight of the film.*

 

 

That's what I thought. The cameos in *Alias Jesse James* are wonderful to see.

 

 

*a real waste of time of performer, director and audience!*

 

 

Ouch! And I agree with you! Are there any Duke films you think are worse than *The Barbarian and the Geisha* ?

 

 

*i'm hoping i just missed something when i saw it, since you and jackie both seem to appreciate it so much.*

 

 

I don't believe *Berlin Express* is a great film. I just think it's slightly above average. But there are aspects of the film that really pulled me in. The mood is great. As Jackie pointed out, the lighting and shadows add a lot to the entire feel of the film. I also loved the twist and some of the danger in the film. There is a "*The Lady Vanishes*" feel to this one, although it doesn't all happen on the train.

 

 

*really? i'm glad you enjoyed it at least. have you seen My Favorite Brunette?*

 

 

I haven't seen that one, but that will be the next "Hope" film I'll watch.

 

 

*I'm not sure I've seen it. I do know Faithless, which Bankhead made with Robert Montgomery, it's also a pre-code.*

 

 

*The Cheat* is about a woman (Tallulah Bankhead) who likes to gamble who runs up a serious debt. She's afraid to tell her husband about this and a strange admirer of hers offers to pay the debt for her. This places her in a predicament.

 

 

 

 

*Many times her movies play like re-workings of earlier films and scenarios. I wish she'd made a movie with Bob Hope! That would have been something to scare him! *

 

 

That was funny! I'm sure Bob would have been scared! That's disappointing to hear Joan Crawford's films tend to run together.

 

 

*My goodness, I'm glad you liked it. I was disappointed by it.*

 

 

I fall for Linda Darnell rather easily. What's interesting to me is that this recent group is one where we struggled to find common ground.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*So what did you like about it?*

 

 

I liked Yuri (Omar Sharif), Tonya (Geraldine Chaplin), and Lara (Julie Christie) and their interactions the very most. I loved the look of the film, particularly the snow. I liked the stylish shots with items such as flowers. I thought the ending was very good, including the wrap-up.

 

 

*ha, for once we agree.*

 

 

That's rare for this group!

 

 

 

 

*what is it about? who are the four and who is the woman?*

 

 

It's a day in the life of Miss G!

 

 

It's a rather confusing film. You are introduced to characters and you're not quite sure who they are and what they are up to. Basically, there is a woman who is being pursued, watched, and threatened by a lost love, a husband, the lost love's brother, and a blackmailer.

 

 

*which was your favorite character?*

 

 

Hmmmm, that's a good question. I can't say that one stood way above the others. I liked Hendley (James Garner), Danny (Charles Bronson), Bartlett (Richard Attenborough), and Willie (John Leyton) the very most. If I had to pick one, it would be Hendley. But I can't say that any of them were my kind of guys.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*perhaps. she was definitely over the top. worst of all was pairing celeste holm with frank. poor frank!*

 

 

You just love Celeste! I actually had to look up Celeste's age after the film because she seemed so much older than Frank. He was actually two years older than her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*really? that's too bad. i thought you'd like deborah and stewart's relationship.*

 

 

I didn't think there was much to their relationship. I guess I was expecting more from both of them.

 

 

*It is one of my favorite films on a theme I hold dear. Who is really the "imprisoned"?*

 

 

That's right. The modernized world is stuck in its silly demands. We are slaves to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Yikes, I sure didn't feel it. I mean they were pros and didn't sleepwalk through it but the movie itself really was flat and I can't even remember the plot despite having seen it twice.*

 

 

The story is about Texas' decision to join the Union versus seeking its independence. You rebellious Texans! Burke (Clark Gable) is sent to deliver Sam Houston (Moroni Olsen) a message from Andrew Jackson (Lionel Barrymore). The message was to let Houston know the Union would back them in the conflict with Mexico so long as they joined the Union. If Houston was for Texas joining the Union, the rest of Texas would follow. Ava Gardner is a newspaper woman who is for Texas fighting for its independence because her sort of man, Craden (Broderick Crawford), is a staunch supporter of that cause. So Gable and Ava clash because they are on opposite sides of the track, yet they are completely drawn to each other. There's some good heat between them.

 

 

*Oh, that's good! And I completely get that. I like some really terrible movies (as you well know) for just that reason. They don't have to be great, if I like the people and their "vibe".*

 

 

*Love Happy* is terrible?! How cruel!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Jackie said it well when she described him as the best at these heroic with a touch of deviltry types. Coop is good at them, too, but he's much more gentle in the main. I think you will enjoy Flynn's westerns. He is very comfortable in them.*

 

 

I'm going to be watching some of his westerns in the coming months. I'm definitely watching one in the next group.

 

 

*I think you have merely been watching movies with the same titles as those I saw, but completely different plots!*

 

 

What do you mean?!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Yes, I like the Bette sequence, too. It is touching. And Wynn is so good at playing those annoying guys yet you feel sorry for him. The picture of Bette he carries is cute!*

 

 

I was not expecting the twist with Keenan and Bette. That was sweet. And like Franchot Tone, I've been running into Keenan a lot in the past two months.

 

 

 

 

*I think I understand. You can see him "acting". He's so earnest, trying so hard. His humor disappears. But I really enjoy this movie, and Taylor is just fine with me. I like him better as he aged. Nevertheless, you can see that he was never as at ease with the camera as say, Gable or Coop.*

 

 

I think you may have hit on it. It's that he's humorless. I see him as a jerk. He isn't too likeable in *Rogue Cop*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I was just as surprised that he and Burt could play so well off each other. It makes we wish Huston's longed-for casting of Gable and Bogart had happened for The Man Who Would Be King.*

 

 

That would have been an interesting pairing. I don't know if it would work or not.

 

 

*It's such a girly, Cinderella tale that I'm not at all surprised you're less than enthused.*

 

 

It really is. Kind of a mix of *Beauty and the Beast* and *Cinderella*.

 

 

*She is quirky and has a great figure, I'll give her that. Glenn is very engaging and charismatic in this film.*

 

 

A great figure? How did that sneak into here?! I don't think I've ever seen Glenn so engaging and charismatic, as you wisely point out. He's hilarious, right from the start. I love how George Marshall teases the western conventions. It's really funny. And, yet, there's still a serious tone to it. It's rather genius.

 

 

*I agree with Jackie and Chris about Three Came Home. It's a very grim movie, though, about POWs. Kind of the female version of Bridge on the River Kwai, ha. Sessue Hayakawa, once again, is brilliant and even more touching than ever as the Japanese officer.*

 

 

I'm really getting stuck in the muck with these war films! What the hey happened?!

 

 

*Jackie must have made that observation and it's spot on. Gene's segment is bad, and should have been edited out.*

 

 

I just wanted to get out of the Paul Newman and Gene Kelly segments. They were painful.

 

 

*If you can remember it...what was the name of Mitchum's beloved Bull? I only recall how funny he sounded when he called out his name at that excruciating moment.*

 

 

 

 

*And I thought he was such a dud in this one! It was like he was trying to let Kate have the movie.*

 

 

No! I thought Spencer Tracy was very funny in this one. I also thought it was the most loving of their films. The dialogue in the film is quite good. It's sharp. The play was written by Philip Barry, who also wrote *The Philadelphia Story* and *Holiday*. The film has a similar feel to both of those films. And I actually thought the film was Spence's more so than Kate's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I totally forgot how long the "I don't believe you" bit carried on. You have a point. And you don't cast Stanwyck as a hysterical crank. Yet, like Rogue Cop, it's a movie I can easily re-watch than many better films. *

 

 

And I watched both of those films because you suggested them when I asked what films noir from my list of "unwatched" I should look to check out. *A Lady Without Passport* was also suggested by you.

[Capuchin]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> Did he have any advice for dealing with snippy women?

 

Always have 472 reasons why you have to leave immediately.

 

>> She'd view it as a challenge to get you to watch the rest.

> That's funny!

 

She'll make a game of it at first, but once you know she's serious, it's best just to do whatever she says. You're going to eventually anyway, and you'll save yourself a world of grief by caving in quickly.

 

For some reason, I'm reminded of a cat's poem.

 

I Lick Your Nose

I lick your nose.

I lick your nose again.

I drag my claws down your eyelids.

Oh, you're up? Feed me.

- Francesco Marciulano

 

> How I have liked Audrey, thus far:

> 1. Love in the Afternoon

> 2. Charade

> 3. Roman Holiday

 

Have you seen Funny Face? It's one of our favorites. It shares a lot with Roman Holiday (chance meeting, different worlds, restraint to maintain the proprieties, and love growing out of mutual admiration and respect).

[movieman1957]

 

Your stills from "Love Happy" points out what I find wrong with it. Jokes that don't go anywhere or have no real punch line. It was unfortunate enough that Groucho didn't appear with the brothers but his stuff feels so "dropped in" to me. "A Night In Casablanca" is much better late Marxes.

 

Seeing the boys in anything is good but it could have been so much better.

 

"Without Love" is an odd film for me. Some fun stuff but the premise is off the wall. Still Tracy and Hepburn in anything (well maybe not "The Sea of Grass" so much) is always a treat. I like them best in "Adam's Rib." "State of The Union" is a good one too.

 

 

[MissGoddess]

> *There is music in The Adventures of Robin Hood ? *

>

>

> *very much so!*

>

>

> Jackie agreed with you!

>

 

you seem to expect a lot from just "entertaining" pictures, unless they're some dorky film from the 80s.

 

 

> I prefer *The Dawn Patrol*, but it's close. I like Errol Flynn and David Niven more than Fredric March and Warner Baxter. And I do like March and Baxter as actors. I believe *The Road to Glory* 's war scenes are better.

>

 

I prefer the actors in TDP, too.

 

 

> Ouch! And I agree with you! Are there any Duke films you think are worse than *The Barbarian and the Geisha* ?

>

 

I don't think so. I have never seen *The Conqueror* but it gets many bad mentions.

 

> I don't believe *Berlin Express* is a great film. I just think it's slightly above average. But there are aspects of the film that really pulled me in. The mood is great. As Jackie pointed out, the lighting and shadows add a lot to the entire feel of the film. I also loved the twist and some of the danger in the film. There is a "*The Lady Vanishes*" feel to this one, although it doesn't all happen on the train.

>

 

I remember wanting that kind of feeling from the movie and not finding it.

 

> *The Cheat* is about a woman (Tallulah Bankhead) who likes to gamble who runs up a serious debt. She's afraid to tell her husband about this and a strange admirer of hers offers to pay the debt for her. This places her in a predicament.

>

>

>

>

 

It looks like she's wearing one of Garbo's costumes! Who is the male lead?

 

> That was funny! I'm sure Bob would have been scared! That's disappointing to hear Joan Crawford's films tend to run together.

>

 

They veer into schlock and horror in the 60s.

 

> I fall for Linda Darnell rather easily. What's interesting to me is that this recent group is one where we struggled to find common ground.

>

 

At least you didn't hate Zhivago or Robin Hood.

 

Great screencaps, as always! Linda looks like a child, she still has her baby fat.

 

>

> I liked Yuri (Omar Sharif), Tonya (Geraldine Chaplin), and Lara (Julie Christie) and their interactions the very most. I loved the look of the film, particularly the snow. I liked the stylish shots with items such as flowers. I thought the ending was very good, including the wrap-up.

>

 

The ending is heartbreaking.

 

> It's a rather confusing film. You are introduced to characters and you're not quite sure who they are and what they are up to. Basically, there is a woman who is being pursued, watched, and threatened by a lost love, a husband, the lost love's brother, and a blackmailer.

>

 

too complicated.

 

>

> You just love Celeste! I actually had to look up Celeste's age after the film because she seemed so much older than Frank. He was actually two years older than her.

>

 

she looks and acts like a matron.

 

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that picture of the horse are so sad!

 

> The story is about Texas' decision to join the Union versus seeking its independence. You rebellious Texans! Burke (Clark Gable) is sent to deliver Sam Houston (Moroni Olsen) a message from Andrew Jackson (Lionel Barrymore). The message was to let Houston know the Union would back them in the conflict with Mexico so long as they joined the Union. If Houston was for Texas joining the Union, the rest of Texas would follow. Ava Gardner is a newspaper woman who is for Texas fighting for its independence because her sort of man, Craden (Broderick Crawford), is a staunch supporter of that cause. So Gable and Ava clash because they are on opposite sides of the track, yet they are completely drawn to each other. There's some good heat between them.

>

 

i don't even remember lionel being in it.

 

>

> *Love Happy* is terrible?! How cruel!

>

 

those caps are cute. i don't remember the movie really except for marilyn's scene you showed.

 

> What do you mean?!

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that's funny about the pill.

 

> I think you may have hit on it. It's that he's humorless. I see him as a jerk. He isn't too likeable in *Rogue Cop*.

>

 

it's not supposed to be a likeable character in *rogue cop*.

 

> That would have been an interesting pairing. I don't know if it would work or not.

>

 

with huston directing i think it would.

 

> A great figure? How did that sneak into here?! I don't think I've ever seen Glenn so engaging and charismatic, as you wisely point out. He's hilarious, right from the start. I love how George Marshall teases the western conventions. It's really funny. And, yet, there's still a serious tone to it. It's rather genius.

>

 

i thought you'd like it. you should see *Cowboy* next for Ford.

 

> No! I thought Spencer Tracy was very funny in this one. I also thought it was the most loving of their films. The dialogue in the film is quite good. It's sharp. The play was written by Philip Barry, who also wrote *The Philadelphia Story* and *Holiday*. The film has a similar feel to both of those films. And I actually thought the film was Spence's more so than Kate's.

>

 

i find it dry as dust.

[JackFavell]

You two make me ashamed of myself for not giving Dr. Z. more of a try. I am loving the discussion of it! Goodness, you both found so much in it! I especially enjoyed the discussion of Lean, that he makes movies about flaws, and also the description of the "Taj Majal".

 

I don't remember what Rod Steiger does at the end of Dr.Z. I remember him coming in to warn them, like he was saving Lara and Yuri, but I cannot remember what actually happened in the end. I guess because I don't really like the movie, and don't watch it often, I don't remember that final betrayal? Something to do with the daughter? Did he send someone to a work camp or something? I just don't remember.

[MissGoddess]

RUSSIAN SPOILER!!

 

> I don't remember what Rod Steiger does at the end of Dr.Z. I remember him coming in to warn them, like he was saving Lara and Yuri, but I cannot remember what actually happened in the end. I guess because I don't really like the movie, and don't watch it often, I don't remember that final betrayal? Something to do with the daughter? Did he send someone to a work camp or something? I just don't remember.

 

his agenda in getting lara and yuri out was purely selfish from the start, but it was their only option if they wanted to escape. lara knew yuri would never consent though he pretended to. lara also knew she was going to have yuri's child and told komarovsky, who we learn later through the girl (rita tushingham) let go of her hand, causing her to be lost to them forever, when he was taking them out of Mongolia after the revolution broke out there. it's understood komarovsky did this deliberately (he would have hated the child since it was yuri's).

[JackFavell]

Thank you! I've only seen it one time through from beginning to end. and I couldn't remember. I think I was trying to figure out how two such beautiful people could have Rita Tushingham for a daughter and I wasn't paying attention to what she said very closely in that last scene.

 

Did I mention I have an absolute phobia about Rita Tushingham? I can't even look at her, something about her bothers me.

[rohanaka]

 

Wowsa, All this Russian talk must be splling out of my computer and into the weather.. ha. Its a WHITE OUT out there!!

 

 

Meanwhile.. just a few words for Mr. Grey,

 

 

Our current game list

 

 

I bet you all have a lot of fun. Ha.. but now I must be VERY out of it, because I have only heard of ONE of those games (Clue) and only the "basic' game version of that. ha. I have never even heard of the others, but I must say (judging from the titles) that YOU must have been the guy picking out the games.. some very "Noir-ish" sounding titles there in some of them. ha. (KILLER BUNNIES???????) ha. But it sounds like you are not alone. you must have a family "tradition" of "Greyness" going on ha.

 

 

And I don't picture you being a wiz at Ms. Pac-Man

 

 

Oh picture it ha. At one time.. I was very nearly ruthless. ha. One of my younger brothers used to work at a bowling alley when he was a senior in high school, and I used to have to pick him up from work sometimes (because he did not have a car yet) so I would play while i waited for him. ha. Now i am sure there were many others out there better than me.. and I never became champ of the WORLD or anything.. ha. I don't think I ever even got highest score.. but I did get close a few times. Ahhh.. those were the days.. loooooooonnnnnnnnggggg agao. (way so very long ago.. alas)

 

 

So are you telling me *Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?* isn't your favorite marital film of all

 

 

UGH!!!! That movie makes me almost sick to my stomach (and I have only seen the last 40 minutes of it or so, ha) That is not (even close to) "fiesty" ha. More like gut wrenching.

 

 

That's an excellent example of a "marital" film. You can put me in the camp of Marian (Jean Arthur) falling for Shane (Alan Ladd). I believe she loved her husband (Van Heflin) more, but she was quite taken by Shane. He brought her to life

 

 

I think you may be right.. and yet I just never am sure (for SURE) that she really 'falls" for him. At least not "in love" More like she knows she MIGHT.. if she let herself. Or more like she knows she COULD.. in another time or place under different circumstances) I think attraction IS a part of it.. but I think it is because for the first time in a long time.. she begins to feel "attractive" and she remembers what it was like when she and her husband were younger. And I think maybe she is worried that she likes feeling that way again.. and knows it is because of what someone else sees in her.. rather than her husband. And that would be a worrisome thing. (at least to her) So.. I don't know. I get hung up on the "l" word with this one.. because I think THAT is where she really does lean more to her husband. Because I do believe she loves HIM. It just may have been a long time since they were both as affectionate and appreciative of their relationship as they should be. And I love the clip you showed.. because I think it does show this.. but I also do think her concern is for her son too. It is hard to see an "idol" fall.. and she knows he is beginning to idolize a person who clearly cannot be a large part of their lives forever. Someday, Shane was going to leave.. and she didn't want her son to get hurt.

 

 

It really is a complex story on a lot of levels, once you start to peel back some of the layers.

 

 

How I have liked Audrey, thus far

 

 

Of the list, I have only seen

2. Charade

3. Roman Holiday

6. Sabrina

and part of 5. Wait Until Dark.. though I confess.. it has been a long time.

 

 

But then it has been a LONNNGG time since I have seen any of these, years.. some more like decades.

 

 

I like #3 well enough.. but I like Sabrina better.. and again.. I like My Fair Lady.. I just am not really too huge on her.. never have been able to say why, exactly.

 

 

She wrote a lot in reply to me, so most of the films may end up being discussed

 

 

I have been gradually trying to catch up. Some good reading!!!

 

 

[MissGoddess]

Jackie, I have never liked Tushingham, either. "Irksome" is the best I can say about her. And she is the same in every movie I've seen her in: whiney.

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}Jackie, I have never liked Tushingham, either. "Irksome" is the best I can say about her. And she is the same in every movie I've seen her in: whiney.

 

That's exactly it! I just can't enjoy her acting, for those very reasons. Although she barely says a word in Dr. Z. as I recall. Needless to say, I was distracted at the end of the story enough to miss the most critical part.

 

I like what you both said about Shane, Ro and Frank. What I like best about it is that it's never spelled out for you by Stevens, he simply lets it be. I can see that either of you could be right, it's not even really an either/or thing. It just gets you thinking and dreaming about what they really felt and thought.

 

Speaking of Stevens, his son, George Jr. is receiving a lifetime achievement award at this year's Oscars ceremony for his commitment to showing the importance of the arts and especially film in the service of one's country. His son Michael is also following in the family footsteps, having worked on The Kennedy Center Honors with his dad. George Jr. has said that he was always pretty much on track to become the 'second greatest filmmaker in our family.'