The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread

[rohanaka]

 

1933 film with Robert Montgomery and Helen Hayes, *Another Language*. It's one of the rare times in that period that Montgomery does not play a charming playboy or rogue, but rather an ordinary working man and husband married to a woman very different from him and his family

 

 

I would LOVE to see that.. I will have to keep an eye out. I like an "ordinary" Bobby. ha (or at least a less "formal" one.) Wow.. 1933. I bet he was a pup in this one

 

 

[rohanaka]

 

i'm so impressed that you all did "how the west was won"! I swear i would not have known what it was from until years later

 

 

Ha.. well, I guess I was the lucky one because I actually got to see that movie when I was in the 7th grade (believe it or not.. they showed it at school. It took like a week and a half for us to see it all, a little at a time, ha) So I did know the movie.. and the music. I think it is a great movie theme, by the way.

 

 

Mountain Greenery"? Cool! I love that little song. though not a band orchestration, this is my favorite rendition of it

 

 

HA!!! Petrie minds think alike!! I KNEW that was the link you were going to post before I ever even clicked on it. HA. I had never (ever) even heard of that song until we played it in band, and that very summer when we were just beginning to learn it, I was at home and that episode of The DVD Show came on and I jumped up out of my chair and yelled at my mom.. "HEY, that is one of our marching band songs.. and it has WORDS!!) ha.

 

 

Silly me.

 

 

[FrankGrimes]

*Frank...Match Game was so loose it was almost scandalous! Very witty as well. I used to love the banter and Gene Rayburn. They always seemed like they just came from a party and were continuing it for the TV audience.*

 

You're definitely right about that. They were loaded on that show! I liked Gene Rayburn. He was the perfect host for that motley crew. Loved the banter, too.

 

*So Joker's Wild and Tic Tac Dough? You must be a gambler at heart!*

 

More like I loved seeing the devils and the dragon come up as a kid!

 

 

*Lamb doesn't taste like any other meat. But it's similar to pork in structure and texture. It can be gamey, which is why I prefer a leg to any other of the portions... it's a little milder.*

 

I'd never order lamb at a restaurant, but I'd sample it from someone else. I just couldn't commit to a dinner with it until I tried a bite behorehand. I'm far from adventurous.

 

 

 

 

 

*Do you like 1970's commercials? "Try it, you'll like it." *

 

Not asparagus! I do love commercials from the late-70s and early-80s. I love the pop culture of my childhood.

 

 

*I'm sorry, my computer keeps crashing, so I am going to turn it off again for the night and try to get it working better tomorrow morning.*

 

 

What causes it to crash?

 

*It's been wonderful talking tonight! I've missed you all. Take care and hope to see you tomorrow.*

 

It was fun tonight! It's always fun to chat with you and everyone else. After a March that saw my time taken from me, I should be around more in April.

[rohanaka]

 

She's darling! She's a loyal wife who loves her husband despite his major issues and what those issues have done to her as a woman and their marriage. But I will say that some of what Bernie (William Holden) says about Georgie (Grace Kelly) and how she treats her husband (Bing Crosby) ring true

 

 

What??? Bing Crosby is in this one??????????? Does he sing White Christmas or drink Orange Juice.. or play golf or something?? ha. I am beginning to think I have NO idea what this movie is going to be about now. ha. I will have to check it out now, if only to see how this all fits together.

 

 

It's just that when you say you like Little River Band or Kansas or Dan Fogelberg, I'm not surprised. But when Herb Alpert shows up, I wonder what is going on

 

 

Ha.. then my work here is done.

 

 

I mostly like Little River Band. The have a mellow, melancholy sound. They sometimes sound like the Eagles, sometimes Bob Seger, sometimes Chicago. My favorite of theirs is "Reminiscing," which is very "Chicago." And, actually, it has a "Bee Gees" feel

 

 

Hmmm.. you had me right up to the Bee Gee's ha. Well.. maybe. In their post Saturday Night Fever stuff.. perhaps. Or maybe now that I think of it.. SNF might be more like LRB than their other songs. ha. OH good gravy. I go back to what I said first.. I was with you all the way.. until you got to the BeeGee's ha. I don't see that as much. But I do see your other references. (and I like all three by the way.. especially Chicago and Eagles.. not as huge on Segar.. but I do like a lot of his music, overall)

 

 

The Bee Gees may be my favorite group of the 70s. It's either them, Fleetwood Mac or K.C. & the Sunshine Band

 

 

Not really any of those three would end up high on my list.. overall.. but I do like some songs from each group.. so not a total write off. ha. I would likely lean more toward Fleetwood Mac out of the three you have listed here.

 

 

Kool & the Gang, Kenny Rogers, Foreigner, Olivia Newton-John, Hall & Oates, The Cars, Blondie, Ohio Players, Marvin Gaye, Commodores, Billy Joel, ELO, Styx, ABBA, Hot Chocolate, Wings, England Dan and John Ford Coley, Steely Dan, Heart, Rod Stewart, and Crystal Gayle

 

 

Wow.. talking about mixing it up. You have a little bit of everything going on there.

 

 

Of your list my MOST favorite would be.. Styx. I had several of their albums in fact (at one time) I really (really) liked Pieces of Eight (the album). I do also like Billy Joel, ELO, ABBA, Wings, and Steely Dan. I have songs that I like from some of the others on your list.. the only one I think I can't say much about is Hot Chocolate.. that does not even ring any bells at all for me, (so I don't even know if I like any of their songs or not, ha)

 

 

My MOST (absolutely TOP favorites from the 70's and early 80's.. The Police (and Sting) Dan Fogelberg, The Eagles, Styx, Kansas, The Doobie Bros. Chicago, and Little River Band, and possibly Queen (though I do confess, I like some of their songs better than others). Those would be the bands I listened to the most (and the ones I tended to buy albums from.. even if I only had "Greatest Hits"for a few of them. Later in the 80's I gravitated to more "classic" rock.. and also got more into the Beatles, CCR, and a few other older groups. But it hsa been so long since I really spent much time listening to all that sort of music.. I might be forgetting some of them.

 

 

My favorite of theirs is "Reminiscing... My second favorite of the Little River Band would be "Lady," followed by "Lonesome Loser." What are your favorites of theirs

 

 

I think Reminiscing is my tippy top fave.. just because it is so sweet that.. and I like the "big band" feel that it has to it (in places) too. I also like Night Owl.. and Lonesome Loser. But really, that whole album (their Greatest hits) is the one I used to have on an LP.. and really is terrific. I don't think there is a bad song in it. I have a newer CD that has some of their greatest hits "live" on it.. I don't like it as much as the older one, because they have re-done some of the songs, ha.. and I miss the "old" ones. We got to see them in concert here in the KC area about 7 yrs ago.. they came to a big festival near here and played a free concert. (or at least I remember it being free.. ha.. otherwise I doubt we'd have gone.. we are so budget conscious in our old age, ha) The QT enjoyed it almost as much as I did.. he's not as big a fan overall, but he does like their music. The kidling was a tiny tot back then.. she really had a good time. It was an outdoor show and it was a lot of fun, as I recall.

 

 

It's not your typical Cary Grant film. It mixes the light and dark very well. The ending is pretty tense. And the very end that you speak of could have gone either way and I would have liked it. I'm with Jackie in that I do like how it ends. I guess I really wanted the happy ending with it. But, who knows, if it would have ended the other way, maybe I would have liked it even more

 

 

It really caught me by surprise.. I did not know for sure what it was until I was watching it a while and then I gave up and looked up the title. I wish I had caught it from the very beginning. I'll keep a look out for it and maybe can catch it again.

 

 

[FrankGrimes]

I'll reply to you tomorrow, Quiet Gal. I'm off to bed. Have a good night!

[rohanaka]

 

I'm about to hit the hay myself. Sleep well.. ha. I WOULD tell you to have "sweet dreams" but well.. you know.. all that Saur Kraut is BOUND to affect you somehow, even in your sleep. Night Night, Grey Dude.

 

 

[MissGoddess]

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}*no wonder i didn't recognize it.*

>

> You mean you didn't watch The Dukes of Hazzard ? I'm shocked! *Dallas* was on after it on Friday nights.

>

 

I used to visit a school friend who loved to watch that show. It made me gag.

 

> The views are breathtaking, but I always get a cold feel with that environment. It just looks chilly to me.

>

 

Yes, it is...cold and wet.

 

> Exactly. That's where David Lean really does play with us. I completely understand Rosy's longing for passion and a physical love. I felt sorry for Doryan's situation with his body and the townsfolk.

>

 

Though it could be seen as kind of a "trick" to make him disabled, as if to force us to view him more sympathetically.

 

>

> I like the irony of Doryan being the physical lover with the disability while the vibrant Charles has no passion for lovemaking.

>

 

Charles seemed tired to me.

 

> I think women are the adventurous sex, the romantic sex, the idealistic sex. Men tend to be grounded in reality and routine. In the past, I feel women just repressed their nature.

>

 

In some ways, yes.

 

>

> But you are right, Lean gives us the male ( *Doctor Zhivago* ) and the female ( *Ryan's Daughter* ) sides of the same coin.

>

>

> *What does growth encompass?*

>

>

> *good question!*

>

>

> Get to answerin' that!

>

 

I certainly don't have it.

 

> Oh, I have a hard time with casting. I wouldn't know what kind of Irishman is best for the role. I don't see Trevor Howard splitting wood with his shirt off.

>

 

ha, i can't even remember that scene, that proves Mitchum played his part well!

[MissGoddess]

> Ha.. well, I guess I was the lucky one because I actually got to see that movie when I was in the 7th grade (believe it or not.. they showed it at school. It took like a week and a half for us to see it all, a little at a time, ha) So I did know the movie.. and the music. I think it is a great movie theme, by the way.

>

 

It is! You guys had an impressive repertoire!

 

>

> HA!!! Petrie minds think alike!! I KNEW that was the link you were going to post before I ever even clicked on it. HA. I had never (ever) even heard of that song until we played it in band, and that very summer when we were just beginning to learn it, I was at home and that episode of The DVD Show came on and I jumped up out of my chair and yelled at my mom.. "HEY, that is one of our marching band songs.. and it has WORDS!!) ha.

>

 

How funny! THe DVD Show is the only place I had heard it (and it's one of my favorite scenes in all of television so I couldn't resist posting it! ), then I listened to a Bing Crosby recording but never have I heard a band play it! You guys also played "I Love Paris"? That's terrific, you played some classy stuff. I'm sure none of those standards made it to Waxahachie High.

[MissGoddess]

> FrankGrimes: Now that really interests me. It really can be difficult to make a marriage a successful one when the outlooks of each spouse are different. Their love for each other has to win out to make it work.

>

 

Helen's character, Stella, is very artistic and loves beauty, while her

husband (Montgomery) is very prosaic and clueless. He's even rather

a jerk to her at times, usually when he's feeling the influence from his

family. Along comes one of his cousins or a nephew, I forget which,

who's just like Helen and of course they hit it off and it becomes about

acceptance of people who feel differently, trusting your spouse and

how young couples need to draw the line between family loyalty and

loyalty to their spouse. It's not a perfect movie but interesting and

sincere, thanks to the convincing performances of the leads.

 

>>> rohanaka: I would LOVE to see that.. I will have to keep an eye out. I like an "ordinary" Bobby. ha (or at least a less "formal" one.) Wow.. 1933. I bet he was a pup in this one

 

He is young but I have to warn you, most of his usual charm is absent

this time. He's downright mean at times, though he doesn't seem to

realize it. When you see his mother and sisters you'll understand why!

 

I'd like to have that sculpture! (since I can't have the

original. )

[rohanaka]

He is young but I have to warn you, most of his usual charm is absent this time. He's downright mean at times, though he doesn't seem to realize it. When you see his mother and sisters you'll understand why

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well... now you have me very curious. ha. I am having a HARD time imagining a "non-charming" Bobby. The closest I can come is maybe TWE.. but even then once in a while.. a little of that charm would sneak out. ha. I will make a point of keeping an eye out for this one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to have that sculpture! (since I can't have the original

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ha.. I took one look at that and said.. WOW, I wonder who that is?? It looks just like BOBBY. (duh.. and then I realized it WAS him.. ha. and the sculpture even has the same EXPRESSION on its face that RM does. ha. did I menition DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

RE: the marching band music.. ha. Don't be too impressed. We did have quite the repertoire.. but we were a very small band compared to other schools around us.. and depending on the year we were a bit of a motley crew.. ha. Overall we did ok (we always took awards in concert band competitions.. but we were way too small to be effective in marching competions.. ha. And I am sure too that since we were a school on an army post.. we had kids transferring in and out every year.. so some years we likely sounded better than others. ha. So when it came to what we played or did not play.. lets just say we had a lot of "selections" to choose from, but we did not get too many requests for an encore!! ha. Oh those were the days. ha.

 

Edited by: rohanaka on Apr 1, 2013 1:34 PM

[movieman1957]

My kids did marching band. They loved it. I hated it. I'm glad they did it. I love music and am glad I was abe to pass that on. I hated going to all the competitions because it was generally always the same schools doing the same routines week after week. I had enough. I told them to go have a good time and they could tell me all about it when they got home.

 

I'll give them credit for doing it though. Ian played in the orchestra too. Sax, clarinet there and drums in the marching band. He was good. He didn't stay with any instrument though. Maureen still messes with the piano a bit. She played in the pit in the marching band.

[rohanaka]

Hiya Mr. Movieman... I bet you had a time juggling all those schedules. My poor mom and dad had to do it x4 and I don't think we were ANYWHERE near as busy as kids today are. We don't really over commit (only involved in just a couple of extra things) with the kidling.. and she is only ONE kid, and still I manage to almost meet myself coming and going sometimes. ha Hats off to you parents who have to do it w/ more than one kid, for sure.

[FrankGrimes]

*I used to visit a school friend who loved to watch that show. It made me gag.*

And now that's my job!

*Yes, it is...cold and wet.*

And I don't like that combination!

*Though it could be seen as kind of a "trick" to make him disabled, as if to force us to view him more sympathetically.*

That's why I was saying Lean was playing with us. He certainly didn't waste any time with Rosy! I'm clearly the boring Charles.

*Charles seemed tired to me.*

That could be. I just saw him more into his work and chores and he didn't know how to make love. What he was good at doing is being dedicated and loyal. When he came home from his trip to London, he stopped off at his wife's grave.

*ha, i can't even remember that scene, that proves Mitchum played his part well!*

It's when Charles comes in for lunch, he does so without his shirt. He wants to put a shirt on since it would be poor manners to sit at the table without a shirt. Rosy wants him to keep it off because she'd rather he come in and make love to her.

[FrankGrimes]

 

*What??? Bing Crosby is in this one??????????? Does he sing White Christmas or drink Orange Juice.. or play golf or something?? ha. I am beginning to think I have NO idea what this movie is going to be about now. ha. I will have to check it out now, if only to see how this all fits together.*

 

 

Yes he's in it! So is Bob Hope. They are on the street or highway or some place and they both have eyes for Grace Kelly.

 

*Hmmm.. you had me right up to the Bee Gee's ha. Well.. maybe. In their post Saturday Night Fever stuff.. perhaps. Or maybe now that I think of it.. SNF might be more like LRB than their other songs. ha. OH good gravy. I go back to what I said first.. I was with you all the way.. until you got to the BeeGee's ha. I don't see that as much. But I do see your other references. (and I like all three by the way.. especially Chicago and Eagles.. not as huge on Segar.. but I do like a lot of his music, overall)*

 

It was just with the song "Reminiscing" that I heard the "Bee Gees." And it was with the track, at the chorus, not the style of singing. But overall, I certainly would not compare Little River Band to the Bee Gees.

 

*Not really any of those three would end up high on my list.. overall.. but I do like some songs from each group.. so not a total write off. ha. I would likely lean more toward Fleetwood Mac out of the three you have listed here.*

 

No surprise there! The Bee Gees and KC & the Sunshine Band are disco groups, mainly.

 

*Of your list my MOST favorite would be.. Styx. I had several of their albums in fact (at one time) I really (really) liked Pieces of Eight (the album).*

 

And that doesn't surprise me, either.

 

*I do also like Billy Joel, ELO, ABBA, Wings, and Steely Dan. I have songs that I like from some of the others on your list..*

 

Now your liking ABBA is a surprise to me!

 

*the only one I think I can't say much about is Hot Chocolate.. that does not even ring any bells at all for me, (so I don't even know if I like any of their songs or not, ha)*

 

Hot Chocolate has three songs that I really like:

 

 

This is their most famous song:

 

 

 

 

 

This is my favorite song of theirs:

 

 

 

 

 

And this would be my second favorite:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2eMwevm1HU

 

*My MOST (absolutely TOP favorites from the 70's and early 80's.. The Police (and Sting) Dan Fogelberg, The Eagles, Styx, Kansas, The Doobie Bros. Chicago, and Little River Band, and possibly Queen (though I do confess, I like some of their songs better than others). Those would be the bands I listened to the most (and the ones I tended to buy albums from.. even if I only had "Greatest Hits"for a few of them. Later in the 80's I gravitated to more "classic" rock.. and also got more into the Beatles, CCR, and a few other older groups. But it hsa been so long since I really spent much time listening to all that sort of music.. I might be forgetting some of them.*

 

I forgot The Doobie Brothers on my list. They would have made the cut for me. I really like Michael McDonald. I'm not that crazy for The Police in the 70s.

 

*I think Reminiscing is my tippy top fave.. just because it is so sweet that.. and I like the "big band" feel that it has to it (in places) too. I also like Night Owl.. and Lonesome Loser. But really, that whole album (their Greatest hits) is the one I used to have on an LP.. and really is terrific. I don't think there is a bad song in it. I have a newer CD that has some of their greatest hits "live" on it.. I don't like it as much as the older one, because they have re-done some of the songs, ha.. and I miss the "old" ones. We got to see them in concert here in the KC area about 7 yrs ago.. they came to a big festival near here and played a free concert. (or at least I remember it being free.. ha.. otherwise I doubt we'd have gone.. we are so budget conscious in our old age, ha) The QT enjoyed it almost as much as I did.. he's not as big a fan overall, but he does like their music. The kidling was a tiny tot back then.. she really had a good time. It was an outdoor show and it was a lot of fun, as I recall.*

 

That's terrific! I've never been one to like going to concerts or music events. It just isn't me. In fact, I've only been to one concert in my life. I saw Huey Lewis & the News, my favorite 80s group, perform in Pittsburgh in the late-90s.

 

 

[movieman1957]

I would disagree about the Bee Gees being mainly a disco group. No doubt their biggest successes were in the middle 70s but their popularity has extended since the mid 60s. After Maurice died it certainly slowed down.

 

I think there have been few groups that have reinvented themselves more often and more successfully than the Bee Gees.

 

I do like Michael McDonald though his solo work more than the Doobie Brothers. "Take It To Heart" is a particular favorite.

 

ELO is a favorite through about 1980. Lynne is a huge talent but I think they kind of lost their way. His album titled "Zoom" back around 2001 or so feels like mid 70s.

[FrankGrimes]

*I would disagree about the Bee Gees being mainly a disco group. No doubt their biggest successes were in the middle 70s but their popularity has extended since the mid 60s. After Maurice died it certainly slowed down.*

 

Oh, yes, you're definitely right about that. I was wrong to say they were primarily a disco group. That's the era I liked them most and what they are usually identified as. I don't like their folk era prior to the mid-70s. I do like some of their 80s work. I mostly like the songs they wrote then, such as "Islands in the Stream" and "Heartbreaker."

 

*I think there have been few groups that have reinvented themselves more often and more successfully than the Bee Gees.*

 

You're right. To go from folk to disco is simply amazing. Folk is my very least favorite genre of music in the 70s and disco is my very favorite.

 

*I do like Michael McDonald though his solo work more than the Doobie Brothers. "Take It To Heart" is a particular favorite.*

 

I just love his voice. It's one of my favorite male voices. His songs with The Doobie Brothers are my favorite of theirs. "What a Fool Believes" and "Takin' It to the Streets" are the ones I like most. I'm not as keen on "Black Water." The sound is different.

 

I also like Michael McDonald as a solo artist. His "Sweet Freedom" and "I Keep Forgettin' " are songs that I really like.

 

*ELO is a favorite through about 1980. Lynne is a huge talent but I think they kind of lost their way. His album titled "Zoom" back around 2001 or so feels like mid 70s.*

 

I was working on my favorite songs of the 70s about three years ago but I stopped. It's a decade I'm not as familiar with, mainly because I was born in 1971. But I know one of the songs that would be in the running for the top spot for the entire decade is "Don't Bring Me Down." I absolutely love that song. I loved it when it came out.

[movieman1957]

I really like ELO's "Out of The Blue" and "Eldorado" albums. "Out of The Blue" is really broad in scope and style and everyone on that double album is good. Great arrangements and I think very interesting chord changes.

 

Fogelberg's double album "The Innocent Age" is very much the same epic venture.

[MissGoddess]

>

> That could be. I just saw him more into his work and chores and he didn't know how to make love. What he was good at doing is being dedicated and loyal. When he came home from his trip to London, he stopped off at his wife's grave.

>

 

He's a decent man, a simple one.

 

for a different kind of man there is Boyer in *Hold Back The Dawn*. How did you like that one?

[MissGoddess]

> But actually my favorite performance was from Leo McKern as Ryan. Wow! What a sad, heartbreaking thing. God certainly took his vengeance out on him for playing both sides against the middle. I can't think of a worse fate for a man. His life was over from the moment he made his decision not to speak up, or maybe from the minute he was weak enough to say yes to the Brits. I don't think he did it out of some sense that it was right, I think he did it out of fear. He was the very opposite of what he was posing as... and how sad! This is what delusion can do to you. Pretending to be something you are not can be deadly, because there will be a reckoning. He may have deflected the reckoning he should have had, at the hands of the townspeople, but he would live with this cancer of his own making all his life. I could see him drinking himself into oblivion. And Rosy knew deep in her heart he was the informer. I think I'd rather die than carry that shame and guilt around with me, that I let my daughter, my 'princess' go through something like that to save my own neck. Very human, though. And she forgave him. But would he forgive himself? I don't think he would be able to.

>

 

That's wonderfully said, Jackie and now I know I have to see the movie again because I remember almost nothing about McKern's character.

 

 

> I thought that Mills' role was quite interesting. A little touch of king Lear, a little touch of Hunchback of Notre Dame.... this is the main problem with the movie, I didn't feel it was quite it's own self . Still absorbing though.

>

 

Good point. It can seem derivative of many literary and film predecessors.

 

> Anyway, back to Mills, as the fool.... he was fascinating to me because his role was to mimic. We don't know it at the beginning, but he was a doppelganger for the villagers.... He breaks apart the living lobster, remember? right at the beginning? And Trevor Howard runs over to him and says, " It's one of GOD'S LIVING CREATURES! How many times do I have to tell you?" ...well, that to me was a portent. The villagers were so willing to break one another, to fixate on the ones who are 'other' or different or don't go with the crowd. The dreamers. They would break them in a heartbeat, for no real reason... just as Michael broke the lobster for no real reason - and as they do with Rosy at the end. They don't even know why they do it. It's a harsh life, and any tentative outreach from one person to another is food for them...something to latch onto and to destroy.

>

 

That was the most wrenching scene for me to watch, with the lobster. But I didn't get as much out of it at the time. I love your analogy and I bet that is exactly what was intended. There is a lot of irony and who knows how hard Howard must have tried to teach and influence his people to know these things ("How many times do I have to tell you?").

 

> But Michael is not only a doppelganger or symbol of the village, he's also Doryan's doppelganger. There's an amazing sequence where Michael is following Doryan, it's slightly comic, they are walking over the dunes, leaving their tracks in the sand.... and I suddenly realized that the tracks that Charles saw in the sand (which led to his knowledge of the affair) were perhaps not Doryan's at all, but Michaels. And of course, then Michael leads Doryan right to the stash of dynamite, his treasure because he has no idea what it is.

>

 

Brilliant! I thought of him in a more general sense but I see what you're saying, how he literally shadows Doryan (from what I remember).

 

> Michael's body is also a prison to him, is also a wracked with health problems. He's broken, but he's actually less broken than Doryan. He doesn't walk straight either, and of course, I think we all fear the kind of all encompassing disability that Michael represents. Doryan couldn't live with his outer disability because it was a symbol of an inner disability far more terrible than even Michael's. The knowledge of one's own lack.

>

> It makes Michael a sort of John the Baptist. A seer of coming disaster. Where Michael is, trouble follows. Not of his own volition, it just works that way. He leads the way, he shows the way, if you know what I mean. Its a gift from god, and a curse. He's so sweet, and so repulsive at the same time....he holds dynamite in his hand, but is untouched by it. He sees all, and is tortured in some ways by that knowledge, because he can't comprehend. But he also has the gift of knowledge without judgment. it was a brilliant performance.

>

 

And that is exactly how I remember seeing his character. He's really got all intellectual gifts and pretenses stripped from him so he lives by nature, is guided by his intuition and heart. And about as helpless as that little lobster.

 

I'm so glad you gave the movie a chance, it's worth having seen even if it is not a movie to warm oneself against.

[MissGoddess]

I'm going to mention this movie here since we're watching and commenting on a variety of films at the moment anyway. I think the "Ramblers" would enjoy it---even Jackie, although it stars Glenn Ford ----it took me by surprise.

 

It's *Heaven With a Barbed Wire Fence* from 1939. it was written by

Dalton Trumbo and directed by the splendid cinematographer, Ricardo

Cortez. yet it's a very sweet, simple little "road" movie, about

friendship, the "American dream" and what that is about. You cannot

believe what pups Glenn Ford and Richard Conte are...two future

noiristas (you'd never guess by how shave-tail they look) together

in a movie long before they adopted their respective tough guy

images. I think you can even see Glenn Ford's Adam's Apple, lol.

 

The female lead is played by Jean Rogers, who I'm not familiar with. She was in a few "B" movies and *Brigham Young* looks like the one big movie I have seen from her credits.

 

 

 

[FrankGrimes]

I thought you drank the same potion Sweet T has!

 

I'll watch *Heaven With a Barbed Wire Fence* tonight... hopefully. And I'll reply to Jackie's wonderful post about *Ryan's Daughter*. She saw more than me! Like usual.

 

*He's a decent man, a simple one.*

 

And that's not for all women. The tough part is you make a commitment to someone. Does that count for anything?

 

*for a different kind of man there is Boyer in Hold Back The Dawn. How did you like that one?*

 

I was disappointed in it. I liked a lot of the elements in the film, but something just did not click with me. I usually love Charles Boyer, but he didn't pull me in with this one. I liked the character Olivia de Havilland plays. I thought it was sweet to see her fall in love. I loved Paulette Goddard. But the story just didn't reach me, didn't win me over. I know I'm in the minority on this one, too.

[JackFavell]

Oh my gosh, look at those two smooth faced young'uns!

 

Sounds good, I've never even heard of it!

 

I meant to mention *Another Language* after your post, Goddess... it's actually my favorite Helen Hayes movie and a great choice for Frank. I really like the film a lot, it isn't great, but you can still learn from it in this day and age. When Margaret Hamilton is the most sympathetic family member, you KNOW it's rough going!

 

> That's wonderfully said, Jackie and now I know I have to see the movie again because I remember almost nothing about McKern's character.

 

 

I didn't remember him at all either. It's funny how when you come back to a movie different things hit you. Especially if you never really saw the whole thing to begin with.

 

> Good point. It can seem derivative of many literary and film predecessors.

 

I didn't mind it, it certainly didn't interfere with my enjoyment of it, but it just didn't quite do it for me. I can't say why. I liked Sarah Miles quite a bit, I don't think she did anything wrong, but I kept imagining the depth Julie Christie might have lent to the role. Miles is good, but Christie would have given added gravitas, or something, made it a more universal story, or more complex perhaps.

 

>That was the most wrenching scene for me to watch, with the lobster. But I didn't get as much out of it at the time. I love your analogy and I bet that is exactly what was intended. There is a lot of irony and who knows how hard Howard must have tried to teach and influence his people to know these things ("How many times do I have to tell you?").

 

It happened so fast, I was lucky. I turned my head for just a moment right before so all I heard was the sound, and then saw him holding up the lobster. Howard was always rushing in trying to bash them over the head with whatever they were too dopey to understand. The town was more foolish than the fool.

 

>Brilliant! I thought of him in a more general sense but I see what you're saying, how he literally shadows Doryan (from what I remember).

 

He does. At first he mimics him, because he is jealous and thinks Rosy will like him if he's just like Doryan, but this makes the townspeople laugh at him even more. Then he starts to follow Doryan and Rosy, then finally, just Doryan, I think because Doryan doesn't make fun of him...and also because he senses something about Doryan... again he's able to sense things that no one else there can...but he can't really understand what he is sensing.

 

>And that is exactly how I remember seeing his character. He's really got all intellectual gifts and pretenses stripped from him so he lives by nature, is guided by his intuition and heart. And about as helpless as that little lobster.

 

That's the word, intuition.

 

>I'm so glad you gave the movie a chance, it's worth having seen even if it is not a movie to warm oneself against.

 

Ultimately it's a cold movie, yes, but I found it rewarding. I love those kind of settings, but man, the people were awful. I'm not sure if I thought Christopher Jones was good or bad, as Doryan. He seemed lifeless, and yet, that's exactly what was called for in the end. And I think you are right, Lean's version of Ireland is pretty cold and thin. But it did make me want to paint all my window sills yellow, like in Charles' little cottage! It was sweet! and the wild areas away from town were so beautiful. Sometimes we don't know it when we have everything we could want right at home.

 

I'd love to know Frank's thoughts on HBTD.

 

I've been trying to see Le Plaisir for two or three weeks. My disc I recorded wouldn't play, Netflix stopped streaming it, The other site I was going to watch it at didn't work, and I finally got the disc from Netflx yesterday and it was cracked right down the middle. I should get a replacement disc on Thursday. If it works....

[MissGoddess]

>

> I was disappointed in it. I liked a lot of the elements in the film, but something just did not click with me. I usually love Charles Boyer, but he didn't pull me in with this one. I liked the character Olivia de Havilland plays. I thought it was sweet to see her fall in love. I loved Paulette Goddard. But the story just didn't reach me, didn't win me over. I know I'm in the minority on this one, too.

>

 

that's too bad, i thought you might like it. it captures a kind of seedy desperation that i imagine could be found in that place and time. the side story with some of the other inhabitants were a little distracting (the child being born, etc) but i think it's a marvelous movie. suspenseful because you are on the edge of your seat whether she will get hurt, when she will find out about him and how and her reactions are not what you might expect. paulette is terrific, not a very nice person but true to her nature and feelings and boyer is no better, for the most part. the way the story is "told" is unique, and rather makes you believe that's what wilder himself might have done when he came to the states and played the waiting game in Mexico.

[MissGoddess]

> I meant to mention *Another Language* after your post, Goddess... it's actually my favorite Helen Hayes movie and a great choice for Frank. I really like the film a lot, it isn't great, but you can still learn from it in this day and age. When Margaret Hamilton is the most sympathetic family member, you KNOW it's rough going!

>

 

tell me about it!

 

 

>>> I didn't mind it, it certainly didn't interfere with my enjoyment of it, but it just didn't quite do it for me. I can't say why. I liked Sarah Miles quite a bit, I don't think she did anything wrong, but I kept imagining the depth Julie Christie might have lent to the role. Miles is good, but Christie would have given added gravitas, or something, made it a more universal story, or more complex perhaps.

>

 

I get more of a sense of earthiness and an almost childish strong will from Julie than Sarah. Julie is the kind that you believe men will ruin themselves over. Sarah is believable as a dreamer, she's more ethereal.

 

>> Howard was always rushing in trying to bash them over the head with whatever they were too dopey to understand. The town was more foolish than the fool.

>

 

so true! and it was probably a lifelong sense of failure for Howard that he never really could reach them, since he was sincere about his feeling of responsibility toward them, toward their souls, as it were. It's not like he could afford to remove himself emotionally or spiritually. Yet I remember feeling he understood how harsh their life was.

 

>>> Ultimately it's a cold movie, yes, but I found it rewarding. I love those kind of settings, but man, the people were awful. I'm not sure if I thought Christopher Jones was good or bad, as Doryan. He seemed lifeless, and yet, that's exactly what was called for in the end. And I think you are right, Lean's version of Ireland is pretty cold and thin. But it did make me want to paint all my window sills yellow, like in Charles' little cottage! It was sweet! and the wild areas away from town were so beautiful. Sometimes we don't know it when we have everything we could want right at home.

>

I thought the same. I wondered if Rosy were a little more in tune with the natural beauty around her, she might have found more out of life. instead, she seemed blinded by the human ugliness surrounding her. she thought it all must come in a pretty pink package, like her parasol.

 

> I've been trying to see Le Plaisir for two or three weeks. My disc I recorded wouldn't play, Netflix stopped streaming it, The other site I was going to watch it at didn't work, and I finally got the disc from Netflx yesterday and it was cracked right down the middle. I should get a replacement disc on Thursday. If it works....

 

i've never seen it, that I recall, but one day i hope to.

[JackFavell]

I think it was interesting that Charles was the one who instilled, or at least understood the wish for a better life in Rosy, he taught her to dream, or that it was OK to dream, then withdrew, and kind of stifled her need to get into the world. I loved what you and Frank had to say about those who are comfortable, and those who are artistic, or imaginative, restless.

 

And Rosy was mirrored by the little girl in his class, the one who followed him to the cave on the beach and hung on his every word.

 

As for Howard, I totally see what you say, it's a continual sense of frustration with him.

 

Edited by: JackFavell on Apr 3, 2013 8:49 PM