The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread

JackFavell · April 23, 2013

kingrat -

Port of Shadows hit me like a ton of bricks too. It's just a great movie! I realize looking at my list today that I should have put it higher, but I was moving films up and down, and it kind of got forgotten in a spot lower than I wanted it. I'd probably put it in at number 7 or even higher. I just have great love for the top 7 movies on my list so it's hard to rank it above those old faves.

I can totally see how your ratings work. The movies you chose are probably ordered from best films to worst, at least in groups. You have great taste. I have a weird mix of old faves and new ones, and it makes my list rather scattered.

In the thirties, I tend to like comedies best, although there are some dramas too that really grab me. It's just that the list skews more toward comedy (usually with something important to say, but still comedy).

FrankGrimes · April 23, 2013

Good evening, Spunky -- *That actually bugs me too, so I totally understand. I am a more out-of-the-box thinker anyway, maybe because I am a classic film watcher. It's definitely not your run of the mill thing to do, and it defines me in a way that not much else does. Anyway, I think dreamers are looked down on, generally speaking, by the majority of people. They are 'weird' or 'different', so I get a lot of people, some of whom are nice in every other way, telling me that the things I think are 'weird'. This is about the only place I feel I can say what I think without getting told how to be different from who I am.*

I'd agree with you, dreamers are looked down upon. I can understand why. The world is about doing. Dreaming tends to be more of a private, personal thing. And what does dreaming really get you unless you apply it?

*Yes, but there is nothing I've done in my life that I can't talk about. I couldn't be blackmailed. I'm not proud of everything I've done, some of it was stupid, but I am not ashamed of anything I've done. I'm more ashamed of who I am inside (though less and less over the years). This is why I love Curse of the Cat People. I am Ann Carter. I don't understand others, and they don't understand me. Imagine her growing up different like that, still believing in imaginary friends... that's me, though I learned my lesson over time, don't reveal that softness.*

All of that is terribly interesting. Some people like to shove their "different" in people's faces. There's an insecurity to that. You look to secretly guard your different. You're very much an "interior" woman. You're protective and you don't like confrontation.

*Blanche Dubois is another character I can relate to strongly. I'm a tender person on the inside, I have nothing to hide but that tenderness.*

Now this is one I wouldn't expect. Blanche is someone who is holding onto the past, so she is living behind a serious facade. She's full of vanity. Blanche is a very fragile woman, for sure.

*same here. I've always felt we were alike. The ramblers here I can really feel a kinship to because I know you all won't hurt me.*

I feel we do share some similarities. I'm similar to everyone here in some shape or form. And I'm talking personality. But my overall view of life is probably closest with you.

*Only every once in a while do you put out the spikes! I think you are more about pushing to get me to fess up to my weirdness cause it's really not bad.*

I'd hope you'd know I wouldn't intentionally look to upset you. And I'd hope you'd feel comfortable to disagree with me.

*But on the other hand, they are alone together now. They need one another to talk to. And they have shared experience. Very powerful for bringing them together.*

You are right about that. But the key is wanting to come together and to do so with the idea of finding a togetherness. That needs to be the desire.

*Gosh, you could have just described me! Except for the big game. I do need quiet time, but maybe it's because I don't have the outlet of talking much anymore. None of my friends here are talkers.*

None? Really? That's tough. But I'm in a similar position. Much of it is my own doing, however. You and the other "Ramblers" have given me a wonderful outlet, and much more. I'm learning a lot because of you all. And not just about classic film.

*It can be romantic to take charge. Look at Lisa Fremont!*

I'm looking! I'm looking! I'm definitely a "Jeff."

*Being pursued is great. Pursuing can be great too. It's day to day living that's hard.*

You know what? You just solved a riddle with myself. It's the day-to-day where I would be good. It's the start that's my issue. And that definitely makes me more of a "Charles" than a "Rosy." Rosy is all about the start.

*Well.....maybe. I do like silents a lot. But I haven't seen nearly as many as most of the guys who hang out down in the silents forum.*

But isn't that their primary focus? You're watching all kinds of films.

*Wow! I'm so surprised that Robin Hood came in so high! I thought you didn't like it. Or is it that you hate the thirties a lot? *

I mostly liked *The Adventures of Robin Hood*. I just don't like it as much as others do.

*I think you will, but sporadically. He directed a lot, but only a few of his films really exhibit his personality. The others are either less well done, due to inferior actors and scripts, or they are just work jobs.*

Walsh is the adventure director, to me. I feel he's at his best doing such films.

*Me too! It's funny, he's so multi-dimensional when you really look at his work, very very.... vulnerable, actually. It's surprising.*

When John Wayne shows vulnerability, I feel he really does lift a picture to another level. And you are right, I've been surprised to see the variety of peformances and films by Duke.

*Yes, he's the ancestor of the modern day Donat. So it's a double role. In fact, he competes against his ancestor for the lady's heart.*

Hmmmmm, sounds interesting.

*You should take a look one more time. It's hilarious how he acts. But very different. I only noticed him in the film recently and was very surprised at what he does. It's very different from Yosemite Sam. *

I do remember his being very quiet, but I can't say that I remember much of the comedy with him.

*Maybe it was movieman who saw it or Molo? I distinctly remember you watching it though.*

What's going on around here?! You and Miss G are both distinctly remembering me watching films I've never seen!

*They've been faring a lot better with me lately. Probably because I am running out of movies that interest me, or maybe I am just old enough to understand that war movies aren't always about war... like westerns they can delve into other situations, like racism or love or power.*

I've been learning the same. The "rah rah" won't get me, but the ones that feature good emotion and psychological depth will usually register well with me.

*I'm actually reading the most interesting book right now about the Civil War, by Shelby Foote. He really captures the panache of all the different generals and commanders, their strengths and weaknesses. It's a pretty brilliant story of completely different individuals and what brings them down and what makes them stronger in battle than their opponent. It's not always brilliance or tactics that makes a man a leader, it can be something else, their spirit or fire, or often it's just a slow comfortable way of being with his men. It kind of reminds me sometimes of They Were Expendable, the war was a lot of sitting around waiting..*

That does sound like a very good read. It's that kind of depth that will pull me in. So how did you come to choose such a book?

*I didn't mind the happy ending at all, it was done well. But for me the music and something about the initial concept didn't work. If she had been a prostitute it would have seemed less contrived. It felt like they were trying to do everything to keep her from looking like she was bad. Then suddenly she gets a job? So what if she's a torch singer? I know the times were different, but her numbers didn't seem racy enough to warrant the reaction they got. Also I think the direction was a little slow? maybe. I'm not sure. How did you like it?*

I liked the first half of the film, but once the radio program becomes a plea by "Aunt Jenny" (Claudette Colbert), it loses me. I did think Claudette was quite good. It's clearly her film.

I didn't mind the shorthand for "morally-loose woman." I could see the shock of a torch singer being the star of children's program. And Sally (Claudette Colbert) was getting a big kick out of the irony. She was basically taunting the producers and even her audience.

*Why me, in particular? I'm just curious.*

You, more than anyone else, respond to the visual look of a film, and I felt you'd really like *Le Plaisir* for the camerawork. Also, you are more open to tales of "loose women," Denver. *Le Plaisir* is not a film for Quiet Gal, and probably not Movieman. Fordy Guns would like some of it, particularly the style, but not the entire film. The stories and themes are not "her."

*I've also recently read some de Maupassant stories. He's really brilliant at bringing out the true hypocritical nature of human beings, it's just the way we are. I swear, one of the stories I read was the basic idea of Stagecoach !*

I never heard of him until very recently. See how far ahead of me you are!

*The middle one is really a masterpiece. There is so much in it, it makes you want to go back and watch it again right away. The way the girls bring life to the community, and pretty much any place they are.. they are the vitality that beauty and most of all openness can bring to a place. Their very real emotion and feelings and basic kindliness were contagious... the entire community actually benefited from their presence, no matter what community. I also liked the unspoken things between Rosa and the father, Gabin, that remained unspoken. Very nicely done.*

But what they do isn't morally right. Would you like your husband to visit their place? That's why I found the story to be very interesting. On one hand, the ladies are exactly what you say. They bring life to the hum-drum town. The businessmen look forward to their encounters with these ladies. And once they leave, these men and the town are a wreck. They don't know what to do with themselves. They are worried these ladies are gone for good.

And then to see these ladies on their one-day holiday was wonderful. They are all at ease. They all seem to enjoy themselves being "one of many." Some experience the spiritual. It's completely ironic when you consider how these ladies would normally be received in such a place.

*They don't even realize their effect on people, which is so radical.*

That's a really good point. I'm not sure many people know their effect on others because we rarely verbalize it. How many people tell others, "you make me feel good"?

*That's very good, I never thought about that. To me it's the way Ophuls films emotion catching from one to another then all around the church, It's wonderful, I can't think of anyone else who could film something so ephemeral.*

You're so right. Ophuls' moving camera is perfect for capturing such feelings.

*I was a bit confused by the first story. It didn't really seem to go anywhere, but then, does it have to? It's really just another riff on the theme of Pleasure.*

I liked "Le Masque" the most. The fight with age, the seeking of past pleasure is such a universal feeling. The masked man (Jean Galland) still wishes he were young and could do the things he used to do. To him, youth is pleasure. Then there is his wife (Gaby Morlay). She is comfortable with who she is and where she is, yet she completely understands her husband's war. The story is such a stylish truth. It's a loving story.

*I loved the voice over by de Maupassant, who I thought was the artist friend in the last section of the film... was he? Or was the friend a different character altogether? I wasn't quite clear on that.*

Yes, Jean Servais plays the friend and is the voice of Guy in "Le Modele."

*I guess what I liked best was the way that pleasure was portrayed as multifaceted - it is both fleeting and something more deeply meaningful to us than we realize.*

That's lovely. I loved seeing the different takes on pleasure. The desiring of a past pleasure. A communal pleasure. Spiritual pleasure. The pleasure of being with a woman. The pleasure of a vacation, albeit a short one. The pleasure of finding love. And then there's the great pain that comes with the losing of such pleasures.

*I wonder if Ophuls was making a statement about film-making itself through this movie? that the people who bring pleasure are important to society?There is also the hint that the seeking of pleasure can be dangerous to the soul, as in the first and last sections. What's your take on them? I'm especially curious about the last one, how does that relate to pleasure? Is pain a pleasure?*

Oh, I'm sure Ophuls could relate to the pleasures and pains of filmmaking. Evidently the final story was to be a different one but the producer didn't allow for more funds, so Ophuls had to scrap the story and go with "Le Modele."

I do feel as if "Le Modele" is about pain being not that far behind pleasure. Is it a pleasure? For some, it is. But I don't feel as if the final story is about that. I feel it's about acquiring things only to find out they don't bring you the pleasure you thought it would. Very ironic.

Bronxgirl48 · April 23, 2013

You're on the right track with Tom Kennedy, Jackie, but no, and then I thought Harry Bellaver, but he's not it, either, so, my search continues...

Bronxgirl48 · April 23, 2013

>I get all those square-jawed "mugs" confused---but love them all! I think the idea of that TV series is great, Bronxie. Maybe Paul Douglas could be a regular guest star? And the Nortons and Cramdens their neighbors. >

Yes, I could see Paul dropping by! As well as Ralph and Alice and Ed and Trixie, lol. ("What the world needs now...")

Oh my gosh, Goddess, I cannot tell you how much I adored Dan in CHICAGO CALLING! Even the kid was (fairly) tolerable, considering how necessary he was to the narrative with its themes of redemption, second chances, the nature of morality, etc.

I did indeed see echos of neo-realism, specifically as you mentioned, THE BICYCLE THIEF. Not a false note in Duryea's performance, and he lifts the material above the usual cloying, moralising '50's Hollywood

fare. Think of it -- Dan Duryea acting alongside a young boy and a cute dog, but there's nary a sickeningly sweet moment between any of them!

I only got up to part 3 of THE BURGLAR but will watch the rest tonight.

Bronxgirl48 · April 23, 2013

I just found HEAVEN WITH A BARBED WIRE FENCE on YouTube and am so thrilled! I can't believe Ricardo Cortez is the director! Plus a young Glenn Ford and Richard Conte, oh, joy! I'll make it a double bill this evening with the rest of THE BURGLAR.

Mom was watching THE DELICATE DELINQUENT this afternoon (she enjoyed Pierre Etaix, by the way) and didn't care for Lewis solo. "He was better with Dean Martin". She asked me the inevitable question: "Are they alive?" and had to update her about Dean...

JackFavell · April 23, 2013

Richard Conte really does a GREAT job here. Wonderful.

Dang! I was hoping Tom Kennedy was the one. I'll have to see if I can think of any more mugs.

Bronxgirl48 · April 23, 2013

Can't wait! (even though Conte always leaves me feeling off kilter; like Charles Bickford, you never know when he's going to kiss you or bust you in the chops) I had my first exposure to Richard in I'LL CRY TOMORROW, so you can understand, lol.

Thanks for joining me on the mug hunt, Jackie! I've simply got to nail him down!

JackFavell · April 23, 2013

I never liked Conte precisely because that was my first movie introduction too. He's really good in this one though.

I'm checking my classic movie mug shots!

FrankGrimes · April 23, 2013

Hi, Kingrat -- *{font:Calibri}I haven’t seen that many of Frank’s 1938 films, and I always struggle with numbering a list, but here goes:{font}*

You listed 18 films. Is that how many you have seen from that list? I've seen 19. I would be surprised to find out I've actually seen more than you from the list, albeit just one.

I really liked how you categorized what films you've seen. That was great.

{font:Times New Roman} {font}

{font:Calibri} {font}*{font:Calibri}Candidate for all-time favorites list:{font}*