Seeking copy of Hollywood Revuew of 1929

[ThelmaTodd]

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[ThelmaTodd]

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[gagman66]

Thelma, TCM programmer, Everyone,

 

STREET GIRL is new to me,. I have seen a handful of Betty Compson films, this is not one of them. ALAIS JIMMY VALENTINE is mostly a Silent hybrid. THE NAVIGATOR, and THE GENERAL again? Why can't TCM show Keaton's SEVEN CHANCES instead? It has never been broadcast by them at all!

 

I am not happy with THE MONSTER being scheduled again. This was just on not to long ago. How the devil do we get TCM to show Tod Browning's THE BLACK BIRD (1926) instead? It has only been shown on TCM Spain, not in America! I want to know the story on this matter? I am talking about the brand new 2005 restoration with Robert Israel score! Easily Chaney's most underrated film. I am getting very tired of waiting for the U. S. Television premier! Plus where is that new Tod Browning Documentary that was produced last year?

 

If this is the schedule for October than time is rapidly running out in 2008 for TCM debut's of films such as Colleen Moore's HER WILD OAT (1927) restored for Warner's by Eastman House in 2006, running at the San Francisco Silent film Festival this year. Also Marion Davies THE FAIR CO-ED, The American Television premier of Photo-play Productions new restoration of De Mille's THE GODLESS GIRL (1928) with the Carl Davis score. Etc.

 

And least I forget the brand new restoration of King Vidor's THE BIG PARADE completed in 2004! When are any of these films going to air on TCM? If the new score still isn't recorded yet, why can't they still show the Thames version from the 80's like they used to anyway? I don't need it, but I know gob's of Silent film fans who are frustrated because they have never been able to see THE BIG PARADE! Hey, TCM programmer is there Anything planned for a World War 1 Tribute? Sure doesn't look like it? We are fast approaching the 90th Anniversary of the Armistice!

 

Thelma,

 

Obviously, the modern reviewer of NOAH'S ARK has no idea what He is talking about. The Silent actors were actually coached by highly paid Broadway know-it-all's, and Delores Costello, was merely performing as She had been coached by them, no matter how awful it was. Many other Silent Star's were coached in this same fashion! Colleen Moore thought that these hired by the Studio's coach's were all goofy! The way Delores speaks in this film, probably didn't sound a thing like her?

 

Listen to Laura La Plante in the second half of William Wyler's THE LOVE TRAP (1929), which start's out as a highly entertaining, and briskly paced Silent with synchronized music track, and after about the first 35 minutes morphs into a very bad, and slow talkie! Laura's frew-frew- Broadway coached voice bares little resemblance to the way her voice sounded in her early to mid 1930's features.

 

I do agree that the dialogue was all 100% ill advised on this movie. It could have been one of the great Silent films ever produced. But poorly staged talking sequences ruined what should have been a very great film. The INTOLERANCE comparison is somewhat surprising, since Curtiz had already made another great Biblical Epic four years earlier in MOON OF ISRAEL (1924) which was the story of Moses.

[ThelmaTodd]

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[chrtbsh]

These are all good questions. Some of the films we're working on. Like you, I've been waiting for the restoration of "The Big Parade" to be ready since I saw it last year - we could play the shorter version but I've been holding out for the recent restoration. I honestly didn't know that TCM Spain played "The Black Bird," so I will try to figure it how we can get it. I spoke to Photoplay last week about "The Godless Girl" and I hope we will be able to license it from them. There are a lot of silent films that have been restored that play at festivals that - as you suggest - aren't available for television because they haven't been transferred to video or had a score recorded yet. I definitely appreciate the feedback.

[gagman66]

Tcmprogrammer,

 

Thanks very much for addressing these matters to us in this thread. It is greatly appreciated.

 

I knew full well that you had been holding out on THE BIG PARADE for quite some time. Not wishing to take away from what I fully expect to be a big prime-time debut of the newly restored version, by airing the Brownlow-Gill Version in the interim. This was fully understandable in 2005, and in 2006, but in 2008, the fact that no version of THE BIG PARADE has aired on TCM since May 2004 is wearing thin! I have patiently been awaiting the TCM Premier of the new restoration for the past three years. I know many, many, other people who are just as anxious to see this. As the new version was expected to be ready for broadcast, much sooner than this. Frustratingly enough, David Shepard informed us earlier this year on Silver Screen Oasis that the musical score had yet to even be recorded?

 

I know that Robert Israel's 19 piece Orchestra performed the original 1925 William Axt, David Mendoza score at a few live venues in 2005, including AMPAS in March of that year. I sure hope that they will be hired for the recorded score? It is rare that you have an entire original score, for a major, major, Silent film like this. So it simply must be retained at any and all cost. I am very surprised that Warner's did not hold the recording session back in 2005 yet?

 

A friend of mine Jack Theakston attended two of the live screenings in 2005. One with Israel conducting, his live Orchestra, and the other with Israel performing the exact same score on the Theater Organ. Incredibly He actually claimed that the Axt, Mendoza score was superior to the Carl Davis one on the Thames presentation. Although it did incorporate several of the same themes.

 

Having loved the Davis score, since I first saw the Thames version of THE BIG PARADE on TCM in 1999, and owning a copy of the MGM laser-disc release, it's hard to believe the score could conceivably be any better. But I will definitely be very disappointed if I never have the opportunity to judge for myself!

 

Jack also raved on the dramatic improvement in print quality over the previous master. Since the new print was struck from the original Camera Negative discovered at Eastman House in 1997. As I have mentioned numerous times on this forum, I hope that when the DVD collection of THE BIG PARADE is finally released it will also contain the Thames version of the film, re-mastered in the same way that Clarence Brown's FLESH AND THE DEVIL had been on the Garbo Silent's release in 2005.

 

It's very nice to hear that you are attempting to obtain the Photo-play Productions version of THE GODLESS GIRL. But what about WINGS and THE WEDDING MARCH?. I find it inexplicable that neither restoration has been broadcast in the United States? For that matter, it's to bad that TCM doesn't have the rights to all of the movies in the Thames/Photo-play-Film 4 Silents series.

 

I still can't believe that Paramount sent you an older transfer of WINGS for a Prime -Time debut, instead of the newer one, with the Carl Davis score? My friend Ed, and I, addressed this situation to Kevin Brownlow recently. It's our understanding that apparently TCM approached Paramount about broadcasting the Photo-play version, and were informed that there were "rights issues". However, Mister Brownlow expressed to us that He knew of No rights issues to speak of preventing the version that He produced and restored in the 90's from being shown on TCM? The only thing I can figure is it has to do with royalties to Photo-play, and to Composer Carl Davis for his score? Or again maybe the trouble is strictly with Paramount keeping this version from being seen? I can't understand why they would not want the best print and version appearing on TCM? This makes no sense whatsoever?

 

I find it surprising that you did not know about THE BLACK BIRD airing with the Robert Israel score on TCM Spain. This was already a couple years back. I have a copy of the broadcast. It has foreign translations under the English title-cards. So I would be wonderful to see an American premier minus these translations. The print is stunning, probably in the best condition of any of Chaney's MGM features. The Robert Israel score is right on the mark. I do not understand why this version is not slated to be a part of the second TCM Archives Lon Chaney Collection? Particularly, as it is a Tod Browning film, and a new documentary on the man will be included in the set?

 

There are a few other Silent's that have been aired on foreign TCM's, but not in the States. Among them are King Vidor's PEG 'O MY HEART (1922), The Silent version of ANNA CHRISTIE (19230 with Blanche Sweet, Henry King's THE WHITE SISTER (1923) with Lillian Gish, and Ronlad Coleman. Victor Seastrom's CONFESSIONS OF A QUEEN (1925) with Alice Terry, Louis Stone, and Jon Bowers. And it appears THE COSSACKS (1928). with John Gilbert, Renee Adoree, Ernest Torrence, and Nils Asther. I know all of these exist, because I managed to obtain copies of them off other TCM's. There may be several more films that I do not know about? For instance King Vidor's PROUD FLESH, or Gilbert's MAN WOMAN & SIN could be two of these?

 

Again thanks much for your responding. Hopefully, Colleen Moore's HER WILD OAT (1927) may be debuting very soon? It is running at the San Francisco Film Festival this year, so I am taking that as a good sign.

[ThelmaTodd]

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[ThelmaTodd]

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[lzcutter]

I find it surprising that you did not know about THE BLACK BIRD airing with the Robert Israel score on TCM Spain.>>

 

Jeffrey,

 

If my memory serves me correctly, there was a thread awhile back about TCM channels overseas. They are not programmed by the same team that programs for TCM North America.

 

I think Kyle in Hollywood posted a link to an article here on the website (Kyle is very good about hunting those down) about the differences in programming.

 

You might be able to find the thread in the message board archives by using the search function.

[gagman66]

Lynn,

 

I understand that the channel's are not programmed by the same folks. However, shouldn't THE BLACK BIRD, and some of these others been shown in the States first before shipped abroad?

 

Hey, I just sent you another PM a few minutes ago.

[LsDoorMat]

I received my double feature from vintagefilmbuff today, and I decided to view the 1928 talkie "Interference" first, since I was curious about the first all talking picture for both Paramount and William Powell. I don't know of any other surviving all-talking feature-length film from 1928 other than "Lights of New York".

 

The video was pretty clear, but the audio was understandably somewhat obscured. The funny thing is, you can almost HEAR the improvement in sound technology as the film progresses. I really had to strain to understand the conversation in the first fifteen minutes, but then things improved markedly and by the end of the film I had little trouble hearing the dialogue.

 

The film's credits actually have William Powell third billed, but he does the best job of anyone on the set and gets just as much screentime as the others. The story is that Powell plays a WWI veteran that was supposedly killed in action, but when he shows up at a memorial service for vets of that war he is spotted by his old lover. She follows him home , and after her visit with him she decides to start blackmailing the woman who took Powell away from her prior to the war. You see, that woman also happens to be the wife of a prominent physician, and with Powell's character alive, this makes her technically a bigamist. The whole blackmail scheme sets up a very interesting crime drama.

 

imdb has this film only receiving less than ten votes, and there is, believe it or not, one review of the film that tells a pretty humorous story about the director of this film. I think that reviewer is a bit overly critical of the acting though. If you compare it to other early talkies it is pretty sophisticated, rather interesting, and has very little of that static stagey feelng that most the earliest of the talkies have. It's interesting to see Powell basically playing his Thin Man persona, including his love of alcohol, six years before he becomes famous for the role. Also, the art direction is top-notch.I would compare it to anything Cedric Gibbons did in the 1930's MGM films.

 

The whole experience left me sad, though. It's a shame we have to seek out and find by accident the various Paramount precodes and early talkies that seem to be of very high quality for their time while the studio cares nothing for them.

 

I'm not spamming for vintagefilmbuff, but I said I would review my purchase when I got it. I just thought others might be interested in this little piece of 20's film history.

[gagman66]

Don't make the mistake of thinking the audio on these films was that poor in 1929. It wasn't. The tracks have just been degraded down through the years. Much like when you used to watch old TV shows in syndicated re-runs back in the 70's. They were copied, and copied again, from film stock to film stock, and the clarity as a result ended up going all to heck! I mean it wasn't Hi-Fi, but all of it was perfectly legible.

 

I have never seen INTERFERENCE before, but I have a copy of THE LIGHTS OF NEW YORK. I can't tell you the quality, because I haven't watched it.

 

Did you read the response from TCM programmer?

[hlywdkjk]

*"I think Kyle in Hollywood posted a link to an article here on the website (Kyle is very good about hunting those down) about the differences in programming."* - lzcutter

 

There isn't a web article about the various Intl. versions of TCM - just my own observations from hunting around and from helping Intl. viewers that have happened upon this place. (I think I last worte about it in the thread on "Request A Movie" when folks were wondering why people were asking to see contemporary movies.)

 

As to the absence of certain films from the TCM schedule, I can't add anything important to that already said by 'tcmprogrammr'.

 

But I look at these films - in their "restored" incarnations - as an asset of great value to the creative folks responsible for the film's enhanced condition. Yet for as much as these folks want their work seen, I am sure they are also going to be very protective of any exposure that would diminish the _value_ of that asset. I am sure there are people that believe allowing their "work" to be seen in 70 million homes in the US will make it less valuable in the long run. And to compensate for that "depreciation", they ask for ALOT of money to allow a channel like TCM access their asset.

 

I can also see TCM standing firm against what they might see a "shakedown" in the fees requested for such films. They have budget issues and need to justify their expenditures. "Do we pay alot for a showing of film "X" or do put the money into the (also unseen) multiple "Lost And Found" features? (Films which became a valuable asset of TCM.)

 

I am sure those are the types of decisions that have to be made. And sometimes quantitative concerns override qualitative. But I admire just how often TCM is able to choose "quality" with their programming decisions.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

[lzcutter]

As the new version was expected to be ready for broadcast, much sooner than this. Frustratingly enough, David Shepard informed us earlier this year on Silver Screen Oasis that the musical score had yet to even be recorded?

 

I know that Robert Israel's 19 piece Orchestra performed the original 1925 William Axt, David Mendoza score at a few live venues in 2005, including AMPAS in March of that year. I sure hope that they will be hired for the recorded score? It is rare that you have an entire original score, for a major, major, Silent film like this. So it simply must be retained at any and all cost. I am very surprised that Warner's did not hold the recording session back in 2005 yet?>>

 

Jeffrey,

 

I think it may just be that WBros has had a shift in priorities the last two years. Time-Warner, the parent company, saw a major drop in the price of their stock and they have been cutting back and belt tightening ever since. I would wager that the majority of Time-Warner companies are affected and have been adjusting as the pain usually travels downhill to the other companies and not uphill to the Board of Directors.

 

Why hasn't WBHV come out and said anything? Because it is bad company politics to throw other divisions and the parent company under the bus these days in business.

 

Add in a sputtering economy, a big drop off in DVD sales (from all time highs just three years ago)

while the format wars went on and a new emphasis on High Definition technology and it can cause major havoc within Home Video departments.

 

I think TCMProgrammr has indicated that the restored print of *The Big Parade* is not available yet to TCM or other broadcasters. The likely reason is the one David Shepard gave. The score has not been recorded.

 

George Feltenstein and crew used to do two large on-line chats a year with the hometheaterforums and people posted about them and logged in to ask questions and we got a lot of great information.

 

But that, too, seems to have gone by the way-side. And not likely because Feltenstein and crew didn't like doing them but because WBros/Time-Warner's priorities shifted away from their silent and not as well known titles to the titles that could be counted on to perform well in a market that saw a dramatic down-turn.

 

As much as we don't like the idea, the bottom line is we are a niche market and we have to fight harder to be heard over the belt tightening and the eye on the bottom line.

 

TCM does not control what WBHV restores or authors to DVD. Those decisions are made by WBros and to a lesser degree their parent company, Time Warner.

 

You want to be heard, I'd suggest starting there.

[gagman66]

Izcutter,

 

I am well aware of this. However, there is definitely no guarantee of any kind that we are going to hear Robert Israel reprising the original Axt-Mendoza score from 1925, once the scoring is recorded? We can only hope. I'm sure that they are not going to hire Carl Davis again either.

 

So are you excited about TCM attempting to get the Photo-play version of De Mille's THE GODLESS GIRL? No word on which versions of WINGS this month, but the write for up Silent Sunday Nights mentions some guy I have never heard of before with the music? It is not Gaylord Carter? Have you read the article?

[gagman66]

Film_Fatale,

 

I'm hoping TCM finally got their hands on the Photo-play Productions version with the Carl Davis score? However read the article. I should have written down the name. In any event, It's confusing.

[lzcutter]

Jeffrey,

 

Could you provide a link to the article?

[Film_Fatale]

> {quote:title=gagman66 wrote:}{quote}

>

> Blast! Now I can't find the link to Silent Sunday Nights in July?

 

I seem to have found it...

 

http://www.tcm.com/thismonth/article.jsp?cid=188845&mainArticleId=199526

[gagman66]

Film_Fatale,

 

Music: J.S. Zamecnik (original music uncredited)?

 

I think what they have reference too is this, Some prints of WINGS which was still running places in 1928, and 1929 had a synchronized track. Maybe this character is the dude who compiled the scoring for that track?

 

Actually, the original 1927 version was released in a version that had sound effects only, meant to be presented with the film as the Orchestra played live. Kevin Brownlow explained about this on Silver Screen Oasis a few months ago.

 

So I doubt if the listing has any bearing on what music we will hear on TCM? It's likely still the Gaylord Carter, version, until we can find out from TCM programmer otherwise?

[LsDoorMat]

gagman said:

"Don't make the mistake of thinking the audio on these films was that poor in 1929. It wasn't. The tracks have just been degraded down through the years. "

 

The informaton from the imdb review on the sound is as follows:

"I viewed an old MCA TV 16mm print (on tape) that had been transferred using the 1:16 Movietone matte. This matte normally obscures the soundtrack which intruded the left side of the picture until 1931."

 

I don't know if this is the issue with the sound or not.

[gagman66]

calvinnme,

 

I have not heard anything additional from TCMProgrammer thus far. Hopefully, I will get some kind of a response the first of the week from him? He gave me his own personal link yesterday morning. Like Karloff fan, have you already seen THE RACKET which airs tonight?

[LsDoorMat]

I've never seen The Racket before, but I was thrilled to see another one of the "Howard Hughes Silents" come up for viewing on Silent Sunday Nights. I've got plans to record it and view it tomorrow evening when I get home.

[gagman66]

calvinnme,

 

 

I'm very anxious for you to get to see this one too. THE RACKET was in some respects Paramount's follow-up to Josef' Von Sternberg's UNDERWORLD the year before. Robert Israel's score is right on the mark, and couldn't possibly have been any better. One of his very best efforts,

 

As Lewis Milestone's TWO ARABIAN KNIGHTS (1927) is one of my favorite films ever, I just had to comment on this thread again. In THE RACKET Louis Wolheim's Capone like mobster "Nick Scarsi", is a far less loveable character than "Sergeant Taxi Cab Pete O Gaffney" had been. But the role definitely, showcased this guy's remarkable range as an actor. Milestone hit another home run, as this film was nominated for Best picture of 1928.

 

Your Star receiving top billing is the handsome Irishmen Thomas Meighan. The bane of Scarsi's existence as the straight laced officer Captain James Mcquigg. A roll later handled in the 1950's remake by Robert Mitchum. The ever delightful Marie Prevost is a hoot as lounge singer Helen Hayes, That's Her name in the movie. Provost was one of the top comediennes in Hollywood during the 20's. Just naturally one of the funniest ladies around. For a few years she was a pretty big Star, and She steals many a sequence away here.

[ThelmaTodd]

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[nightwalker]

According to the book KARLOFF, by Denis Gifford, as well the IMDB, the name of the actor playing Charlie Chan in BEHIND THAT CURTAIN was E.L. Park.