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I probably have watched way too many films that things like this bother me, but after seeing a classic many times then you start noticing background stuff more. For example, in the movie "The Maltese Falcon" it came to my attention a few years ago that when they finally get the falcon in Spade's apartment, all swathed in material and Greenstreet starts unwrapping it, that one hears a voice say something like "It's a fake, it's phony, it's lead!"

Now this is when he starts trying to carve on the finish with a knife or something. What is odd though, is that the voice sounds not like Greenstreet, or Lorre or Bogart and definitely not Astor. So...whose voice is it?

There is no lip movement either as this occurs from any of the characters. I think in olden days I just assumed it was Greenstreet but really started noticing after viewing the film many times, that it sounds nothing like him.

I think maybe they added this bit after the film was finished just to make sure the audience is clued in, though the result that it is not the real falcon seems obvious. Check it out on Youtube at the below spot at around 1:32 maybe:

And any other movie mysteries that are puzzling you, please submit here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xuw-XKP1sI

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3 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

I always assumed it was Greenstreet.

Now you know what they say when one assumes, Nip!

But you need to relisten now and really put on your thinking cap, and see if it really sounds like old Sydney.

Thanks for your thoughts though!

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I think CG has a point. the quote: "Its a fake, its phony, its lead" or so does sound a bit off. Maybe is was done post production. I think its Sidney's voice though. He might have been out of breath while cutting at the statue and that may have made his voice sound weird.

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41 minutes ago, GGGGerald said:

I think CG has a point. the quote: "Its a fake, its phony, its lead" or so does sound a bit off. Maybe is was done post production. I think its Sidney's voice though. He might have been out of breath while cutting at the statue and that may have made his voice sound weird.

I always assumed it was a voice over especially after I saw the film on the big screen sitting in the 4th or 5th row.   Sidney either was out of breath,  said the line too low, or flubbed the line and so Huston had him do a voice over.

 

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The script has Greenstreet uttering the words "off camera" or CLOSEUP of the Bird.

576260974_ScreenShot2018-05-28at12_49_10AM.png.934d6d79eed902097c1ebff3200d0578.png

IMG_5620.thumb.jpg.1a4f617f807e75f54c6428299924f755.jpg

The line,"it's a fake" shows Greenstreet uttering it on camera

but it's a shot which doesn't last long.

I agree, it does not sound like the "fatman", but keep in mind that he was very frustrated.

IMG_5622.thumb.jpg.e62bab000d9f39b7dfceb19fd1cfac47.jpg

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Interesting. I think see where you want to go with this thread. There are many "mysteries" surrounding movies. One famous one is whether or not Shame slumps in the saddle and dies at the end. Another one is how did Doc Holiday (Val Kilmer) get out of his sick bed and beat Wyatt Earp (Kurt Russell) to the showdown with Johnny Ringo in Tombstone. Another thing that's always bothered me was that in The Untouchables (with Kevin Costner and Sean Connery) they killed Frank Nitti during the trial of Capone. History reveals that Nitti actually outlived Capone and ran his organization long after Capone was imprisoned as shown in the 60s TV show The Untouchables. I'm sure there are many more out there. I plan to give this some thought to see how many I can find.

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7 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

If it actually was lead I doubt they would be able lift and cart it around as easily as they seem to do. One cubic inch of lead weighs 1.713 pounds.

You are right. According to the link I posted below, the original lead Falcon weighs 45 pounds.

humphrey-bogart-maltese-falcon-steve-wynn.jpg.3e038a283a9fd32349b6aad1c51bd80a.jpg

As John Huston’s script supervisor on The Maltese Falcon, Meta Wilde (Warner Bros.) was responsible for props “continuity”—that is, making sure everything looked exactly the same in each shot, especially if actors and props had been moved. That made her the de facto keeper of the Falcon. She recalled that they had used four Falcons during the filming, three of plaster and one of metal—but not heavy lead.

Was a heavy lead bird ever used on the set? Risan asked at one point.

“Absolutely not,” Wilde replied, according to Risan. “I could never carry that around. Neither could Humphrey Bogart.”

(Excerpt from this link below)

The Mystery of the Maltese Falcon, One of the Most Valuable Movie ...

 

BTW: In 1977, I worked for Jack Warner at his Beverly Hills estate.

I was able to hold in my hands one of his Oscar statues, and they were a bit on the heavy side.

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It's Greenstreet. It was looped in studio as a "wild" insert.

Now, if you want oddball voices, watch some Universal films of the 1930's. Whenever a voice insert was needed, they would have one of the technicians (probably Bernard Brown himself - who else would have the gall) to dub in the line. This practice was rampant in the serials. The insert would sound NOTHING like the on-screen actor's voice (Lugosi was often victim to this heinous practice).

In HOLD THAT GHOST, Don Terry's voice is dubbed (only one line - "Wait a minute, we know our way around") by a virtual soundalike for Cliff Clark. Was it Cliff? He was shooting MOB TOWN on the lot.

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It sounds to me like a different proximity effect, as in Greenstreet may be closer to the mic in the overdub session.  Or maybe a different mic with a different frequency response altogether.  His voice has more "presence" on the overdubbed part.  (I've done audio work, so I know what it sounds like I am hearing, here.)  Today in Hollywood there are people who obsess over issues like this and have more technical luxuries, so you don't notice inconsistencies like this very often.  They are spoiled though, and most of them can't find their way out of a wet paper bag to make a movie like they did during the classic era.

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37 minutes ago, MovieCollectorOH said:

It sounds to me like a different proximity effect, as in Greenstreet may be closer to the mic in the overdub session.  Or maybe a different mic with a different frequency response altogether.  His voice has more "presence" on the overdubbed part.  (I've done audio work, so I know what it sounds like I am hearing, here.)  Today in Hollywood there are people who obsess over issues like this and have more technical luxuries, so you don't notice inconsistencies like this very often.  They are spoiled though, and most of them can't find their way out of a wet paper bag to make a movie like they did during the classic era.

Another thing that people often forget is that many films were only released to theaters for a fairly short time and most people only saw a film once.    I.e. they didn't 'rewind' the film and play a scene over and over again.    

As most people know,  The Maltese Falcon was Huston's initial effort as a director,  and since WB had done the material twice before, with only limited success,  the production wasn't a 'A' type one.   E.g. Raft turned down the role of Spade because he didn't wish to be associated with a film with a first time director, hat was likely to be only an after though to the general viewing public.     Oh,  man was that misguided.

So I chalk this up to 'yea,  that sounds funky,,,, but no one will notice,,, its a rap'.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Another thing that people often forget is that many films were only released to theaters for a fairly short time and most people only saw a film once.    I.e. they didn't 'rewind' the film and play a scene over and over again.    

As most people know,  The Maltese Falcon was Huston's initial effort as a director,  and since WB had done the material twice before, with only limited success,  the production wasn't a 'A' type one.   E.g. Raft turned down the role of Spade because he didn't wish to be associated with a film with a first time director, hat was likely to be only an after though to the general viewing public.     Oh,  man was that misguided.

So I chalk this up to 'yea,  that sounds funky,,,, but no one will notice,,, its a rap'.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, good point.  Ordinarily I don't rewind scenes over and over like that either.

I don't know when the practice of sitting in a theater for more than one showing began.  We used to do it in the 70s, still do it today if the movie's good enough or we came in late.

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52 minutes ago, Sundance said:

Bogart in "The Big Sleep"...

while driving the sister home, for a moment Bogart looks directly at the camera as if annoyed that we are looking in on him.

I know it's nit-picking but except for Ollie & Jack Benny, I can't recall anyone else doing it.:P

 

Isn't this scene of Marlowe driving Carmen home only shown in the initial 1945 release?; I.e. the one shown overseas before Bogie and Bacall where married and Hawks was asked to add more B&B scenes for PR purposes (the version shown to U.S. audiences and the one most commonly shown).

In the latter version the scene starts with the butler opening the door. 

 

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3 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Isn't this scene of Marlowe driving Carmen home only shown in the initial 1945 release?; I.e. the one shown overseas before Bogie and Bacall where married and Hawks was asked to add more B&B scenes for PR purposes (the version shown to U.S. audiences and the one most commonly shown).

In the latter version the scene starts with the butler opening the door. 

 

Yes it is.

Marlowe would be proud of you. If ever I get stuck on movies of

this sort, I hope I can count on you to solve it. You have a knack

For details,

Thanks !

 

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13 hours ago, Sundance said:

Yes it is.

Marlowe would be proud of you. If ever I get stuck on movies of

this sort, I hope I can count on you to solve it. You have a knack

For details,

Thanks !

 

As for the scene;  Bogie does look right into the camera but to me that was his way of showing how much contempt Marlowe had for Carmen.    Thanks for posting this since I can never get too much of Martha Vickers (Mickey Rooney's 3rd wife,  with his first being Ava Gardner).    

Image result for martha vickers

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This isn't really a mystery but more of a goof;   In Meet Boston Black-i-e, (which TCM showed as part of their serial series),   Boston (Chester Morris) places Rochelle Hudson in a folding wall bed to ensure she stays put and uses a chair to secure the door of the wall bed.

The chair Boston uses has a round back.    When the police arrive at the room and hear her the chair securing the door has a square back.     

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6 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

As for the scene;  Bogie does look right into the camera but to me that was his way of show how much contempt Marlowe had for Carmen.    Thanks for posting this since I can never get too much of Martha Vickers (Mickey Rooney's 3rd wife,  with his first being Ava Gardner).    

Image result for martha vickers

She was known as Martha MacVicar in The Falcon in Mexico.

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On 5/26/2018 at 2:07 PM, jimmymac71 said:

According to the script, it is Sydney.

http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/Maltese_Falcon.pdf

Page 142 in the script or page 147 in the PDF.

 

That's nice, but I don't think it is.

Maybe it was in the script to use Sydney, but it surely does not sound like him.

I would guess it was also in the script for "Giant" that lines for Jett Rink would be done by James Dean, but after his untimely death, it was Dennis Hopper as I recall who actually had to do some of the lines for the film in the banquet scene.

Sydney has a very memorable voice and accent, which does not sound at all like the voice used in the film.

But thanks for your research, which I still appreciate.

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37 minutes ago, CaveGirl said:

That's nice, but I don't think it is.

Maybe it was in the script to use Sydney, but it surely does not sound like him.

I would guess it was also in the script for "Giant" that lines for Jett Rink would be done by James Dean, but after his untimely death, it was Dennis Hopper as I recall who actually had to do some of the lines for the film in the banquet scene.

Sydney has a very memorable voice and accent, which does not sound at all like the voice used in the film.

But thanks for your research, which I still appreciate.

It was my understanding that the voice-overs were made by his friend,Nick Adams, who appeared with Dean in "Rebel Without  a Cause".

1ad6b34a000fa4a706a5fa5c7dfb516f.png.86bcec9fb32f801761ccce1eb71b8d89.png

 

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3 minutes ago, Sundance said:

It was my understanding that the voice-overs were made by his friend,Nick Adams, who appeared with Dean in "Rebel Withoout  a Cause".

Yeah, sorry...I just got up, and am still groggy [don't ask!] and those guys always remind me of each other, but you are right. It was Nick who did the bits after filming had ended, since Dean was dead and had mumbled his way through the scene as I recall.

Thanks for the correction!

 

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