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democracy, free speech, civility, protest?


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On 10/13/2018 at 6:06 PM, Princess of Tap said:

Far too many of these GOP representatives in Regional and federal government seem to think that once they get in their office it is their personal property.

It's never too much nor is it ever wrong to remind them that they represent all of their constituents, whether you voted for them or not.

These people need to be reminded that they are in a democracy; they are representing real life human beings. And they need to listen to what those people have to say to them. They don't have a choice in that. If they're going to be real public servants and not just corrupt grafters.

More so with GOPers, but some Dems are guilty as well.

The basic concern is that far too many local, state and federal offices are pretty much owned by the Dems. or the GOPers and therefore they know they only have to listen to the people who vote in their primaries.  They will pay lip service to others, but don't expect too much.

This still does not keep me from contacting my elected officials, but I only do it when I think they need to know there is another opinion in their area.  And I only do it for issues that are not on the extreme.  Case in point:  I contacted both GOP senators about Kavanaugh even though I knew they would vote for him.  I requested longer, more through investigations into many facets of his background.  Didn't help, but I figured it was a long shot, but a shot.

Remember:  Despite the signature on the letter, your issue was received by, investigated by and replied to by a staffer in the vast majority of cases.

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https://itsgoingdown.org/pipeline-fighter-locks-to-equipment-truck-at-mvp-pipe-yard-6-arrested-and-held-on-17k-total-bail/

Pipeline Fighter Locks to Equipment Truck at MVP Pipe Yard; 6 Arrested and Held on $17k Total Bail

October 23, 2018
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Appalachians Against Pipelines reports on a recent action that shut down a pipeline equipment yard.

BECKLEY, WV — On Monday morning, over a dozen protesters blocked traffic entering and exiting a Mountain Valley Pipeline (MVP) equipment yard outside of Beckley, WV. This location is a storage and staging area for hundreds of sections of the 42-inch-diameter pipe that MVP is using for its dangerous pipeline. The pipeline fighters on site today prevented MVP trucks from entering and exiting the yard, effectively shutting down work at this location 3 hours. One individual locked their body to a large truck carrying sections of pipe. The group held banners reading “MVP Is Hell,” “Water Is Life, We Won’t Back Down,” and “No Pipelines, No Compromise.”

The individual who was locked to the truck carrying pipe stated: “The UN says we have 12 years to save this planet. I take action today because nobody else will; because I want to have a tomorrow. I no longer have any other options.”

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More so with GOPers, but some Dems are guilty as well.

That's fair to say. (I've underscored this quote where I thought it needed it, the GOP has always been the party of favoritism and pork-barrel dipping, far ahead of the Dems).

What irks me is that the GOP never supports any causes that are actually good for the country. They only support ideas which enable ...more cronyism.

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The basic concern is that far too many local, state and federal offices are pretty much owned by the Dems.

Currently, the GOP predominates in the ownership of governors, state legislatures, federal branches, and the judiciary. Thanks, capitalism. (Source: already posted in another TCM off-topic chat thread).

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or the GOPers and therefore they know they only have to listen to the people who vote in their primaries. 

The primaries are the most important election cycle in the country. That's how the party slate gets chosen. If we dislike the leaders we're offered; the only chance to change them is in the primaries.

All the more ironic since America's turnout even in the loudest, most heavily-publicized national elections averages around half. For a developed, 'advanced' western nation we have one of the worst voting records possible. It's embarrassing. (one source of many reporting this: https://tinyurl.com/hgz5kpo ).

People mostly seem not to realize that a democracy takes effort on everyone's part. Increasingly hands-off, laziness-inducing technology is only making it worse. Don't just turn everything over to computer-geeks to run; that's how democratic institutions become even easier to steal.

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Trump’s Visit To Pittsburgh — A City That Didn’t Want Him

Thousands in Pittsburgh took to the streets to mourn and to protest a president they say is complicit in the massacre of 11 worshippers at Tree of Life synagogue.
 
..... Those who “would insert themselves on a national stage, into a city in mourning, before the dead are buried, is unacceptable,” she continued. “Those that would limit our neighbors’ vote, that would foment hate against the Jewish community, Muslim community, people of color, LGBTQ people, as well as wage a war on women’s bodies, are not welcome here!” ......

“These people can’t grieve! You’re causing them pain!”

“We welcome everybody here!” she continued, presumably referring to the Squirrel Hill Jewish community’s acceptance of immigrants and refugees. “You only care about you! You are not welcome on my street! These are my neighbors that were killed! You are not welcome in Squirrel Hill! Do you understand that?”

 

There were thousands of people mourning and marching through Squirrel Hill Tuesday who shared her sentiment....

“I think that Donald Trump represents white nationalism and white supremacy, and that has no place in the mourning lives lost to exactly those systems that his administration upholds,” ..........

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-pittsburgh-protest-mourning_us_5bd92a8de4b019a7ab5841c5

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Nobody Is Above the Law—Mueller Protection Rapid Response

Search 900+ events by zip code:
BREAKING: PROTESTS CALLED FOR THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 8, 5 PM LOCAL TIME
Donald Trump has installed a crony to oversee the special counsel's Trump-Russia investigation, crossing a red line set to protect the investigation. By replacing Rod Rosenstein with just-named Acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker as special counsel Robert Mueller's boss on the investigation, Trump has undercut the independence of the investigation. Whitaker has publicly outlined strategies to stifle the investigation and cannot be allowed to remain in charge of it. The Nobody Is Above the Law network demands that Whitaker immediately commit not to assume supervision of the investigation. Our hundreds of response events are being launched to demonstrate the public demand for action to correct this injustice. We will update this page as the situation develops.

Donald Trump just crossed a red line, violating the independence of the investigation pursuing criminal charges in the Trump-Russia scandal and cover-up.

Trump putting himself above the law is a threat to our democracy, and we’ve got to get Congress to stop him. .............

 

 

https://www.trumpisnotabovethelaw.org/event/mueller-firing-rapid-response/search/

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The Associated PressVerified account @AP 12m12 minutes ago

 
 

Washington police investigating a protest outside the home of Fox News host Tucker Carlson as a possible hate crime.

 

....officers were summoned to Carlson’s home Wednesday evening and found about 20 protesters and a commonly used anarchy symbol spray-painted on the driveway.

A brief video posted on social media by a group calling itself “Smash Racism DC” shows people standing outside a darkened home chanting “Tucker Carlson we will fight. We know where you sleep at night.”

The video was later removed from Twitter.

There were no arrests but police confiscated several signs. The report lists the incident as a “suspected hate crime” on the basis of “anti-political” bias....

https://apnews.com/5aa41068747f4e41b39947f761462f96?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP

===============================================================

Stephen ColbertVerified account @StephenAtHome 3h3 hours ago

 
 

Fighting Tucker Carlson’s ideas is an American right.

Targeting his home and terrorizing his family is an act of monstrous cowardice.

Obviously don’t do this, but also, take no pleasure in it happening.

 

Feeding monsters just makes more monsters.

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  • 2 weeks later...

NewsweekVerified account @Newsweek 6m6 minutes ago

 

Cab drivers refused to serve far-right protesters after Philadelphia rally

http://bit.ly/2DM0mqa 

".....about two dozen far-right demonstrators were outnumbered by hundreds of left wing counter-demonstrators for the heavily policed event, reported the Daily Beast.

According to the outlet, among those who attended were members of the Proud Boys, a male-only group set up by Vice News co-founder and right-wing provocateur Gavin McInnes.

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17 minutes ago, hamradio said:

Good ole modern democracy - only one side can protest.

THEY HAVE THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT - you don't have to AGREE with their message.

Nobody stopped the white supremacists from protesting.

Anybody in America who wants to demonstrate with the Klan or The Proud boys is free to do so.

Just as nobody stopped them from doing what they wanted to do in Charlottesville.

 On the other side of the coin, those who don't believe in white supremacy also have a right to protest.

The police are there to make sure everyone stays safe.

Unfortunately, that was not the case in Charlottesville where a young woman was murdered and  a white supremacist has been arrested for her murder.

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16 minutes ago, Princess of Tap said:

Nobody stopped the white supremacists from protesting.

Anybody in America who wants to demonstrate with the Klan or The Proud boys is free to do so.

Just as nobody stopped them from doing what they wanted to do in Charlottesville.

Glad you understand that, it just the small trends that are taking place I'm concerned about.

PayPal draws controversy for banning Antifa alongside far-right Proud Boys

https://thinkprogress.org/paypal-proud-boys-antifa-987d619f86b1/

They shouldn't ban EITHER!  Paypal or other institutions  banning any minority group whether if it's far left or right is against our principles period.

Like to emphasis this country is NOT a true democracy but a REPUBLIC. A majority can not stop or prevent a minority group from expressing opinions. 

 

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11 minutes ago, hamradio said:

 

Glad you understand that, it just the small trends that are taking place I'm concerned about.

PayPal draws controversy for banning Antifa alongside far-right Proud Boys

https://thinkprogress.org/paypal-proud-boys-antifa-987d619f86b1/

They shouldn't ban EITHER!  Paypal or other institutions  banning any minority group whether if it's far left or right is against our principles period.

Like to emphasis this country is NOT a true democracy but a REPUBLIC. A majority can not stop or prevent a minority group from expressing opinions. 

 

I definitely get what you're saying but they can (and should) ban anyone who calls for violence and murder. It's like what happened with Alex Jones when he said Sandy hook was fake and then released the personal info of the parents whose children died. That is really reckless behavior and the platform has no obligation to put up with it. As far as the Antifa and Proud Boys, both have been really violent and if the platform feels they may cause more violence in the future I think they have the right to ban them. That is just my opinion though. 

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1 hour ago, hamradio said:

What I do if came across a protest I don't like....walk away, don't give it another thought or them the time of day.

Would you feel the same way if the protesters were personally attacking you because of your race, ethnicity, religion, sexuality or gender?

Would you feel the same way if because of one of those identifications you were physically attacked by the protesters?

Would you feel the same way if you saw the protesters physically attacking another group of people because of their identification?

White supremacists have a history in the United States of terrorism.

 A history that I'm old enough to have witnessed on the evening news during the entire time I was in public school.

People have a good reason for not wanting to be associated with white supremacists.

I would say also that people have a choice as to who they want to be associated with.

 

 And I guess my last question is if you had been in Nazi Germany and you saw what Hitler was doing to the Jews, then you just would have walked away and done nothing?

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1 hour ago, cigarjoe said:

A quote that is a pertinent today as it was back then.

 

"I happen to think that the singular evil of our time is prejudice. It is from this evil that all other evils grow and multiply. In almost everything I've written there is a thread of this: a man's seemingly palpable need to dislike someone other than himself."

ROD SERLING, Los Angeles Times, 1967


 

For the record, the creator of " Twilight Zone " was a Jewish American man named Rod Serling,

who served in Asia during World War II.

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1 minute ago, Princess of Tap said:

Would you feel the same way if the protesters were personally attacking you because of your race, ethnicity, religion, sexuality or ge der?

Would you feel the same way if because of one of those identifications you were physically attacked by the protesters?

Would you feel the same way if you saw the protesters physically attacking another group of people because of their identification?

White supremacists have a history in the United States of terrorism.

 A history that I'm old enough to have witnessed on the evening news during the entire time I was in public school.

People have a good reason not wanting to be associated with white supremacists.

I would say also that people have a choice as to who they want to be associated with.

 

 And I guess my last question is if you had been in Nazi Germany and you saw what Hitler was doing to the Jews, then you just would have walked away and done nothing?

 

And EXACTLY what can I do without winding up in a Concentration Camp myself?? 

Complain, yeah right.

 

Knock, knock!

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" There are those in our country today, too, who speak of the "protection" of the country. Of "survival". The answer to that is: *survival as what*? A country isn't a rock. And it isn't an extension of one's self. *It's what it stands for, when standing for something is the most difficult!* Before the people of the world - let it now be noted in our decision here that this is what *we* stand for: *justice, truth... and the value of a single human being!*

---------------------------------

" What about those of us who knew better? We who knew the words were lies and worse than lies? Why did we sit silent? Why did we take part? Because we loved our country! What difference does it make if a few political extremists lose their rights? What difference does it make if a few racial minorities lose their rights? It is only a passing phase. It is only a stage we are going through. It will be discarded sooner or later. Hitler himself will be discarded... sooner or later. The country is in danger. .......

--------------------------------------------

-so, what you suggest may very well happen. It *is* logical, in view of the times in which we live.

*But to be logical is not to be right*, and *nothing* on God's earth could ever *make it* right! "

 

 

-from Judgment at Nuremberg (1961)

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What no post about the protest by Mexicans citizens in Tijuana of the caravan? 

E.g. Mexican citizen, Luis Mendoza,  'we demand respect! We demand that our laws be followed'.     

Or Rafael Armas,  a high school teacher;   Haitians came here to work,  they respected our laws.  Central Americans are our brothers.  But these Hondurans have come to cause a scandal'.

According to local officials as many as 10,000 caravan travelers could arrive in coming days and months.   

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On 11/19/2018 at 3:54 PM, jamesjazzguitar said:

What no post about the protest by Mexicans citizens in Tijuana of the caravan? 

E.g. Mexican citizen, Luis Mendoza,  'we demand respect! We demand that our laws be followed'.     

Or Rafael Armas,  a high school teacher;   Haitians came here to work,  they respected our laws.  Central Americans are our brothers.  But these Hondurans have come to cause a scandal'.

According to local officials as many as 10,000 caravan travelers could arrive in coming days and months.   

 

The Mexican citizens should ask their politicians why they allowed the caravan to cross the Guatemala border?  And it's much smaller than ours with Mexico.

3efb4d772e3002f644e12e0532c3aecf.jpg

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