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>Cine wrote: Conservatives are for maintaining the status quo (the very definition of "reactionary"), especially if it serves their interests.

 

 

Nothing could be further from the truth. Conservatives welcome prudent change and realize change must take place in all vibrant societies.

 

Conservatives rely upon their ancestors to mold the past with the present.

 

"A State without the means of some change is without the means of its conservation."

Edmund Burke

 

Liberty...

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> {quote:title=mickeeteeze wrote:}{quote}

> "There you go again with Liberal hyperbole...

>

> Conservatives are not for the above..."

>

> Thats exactly what you're for.

> Far right economics brought us to just that 100 years ago.

> You run around this board baiting people with your political slime since the day you came here. I wouldn't even be surprised if your one of those 'paid posters from AOL.

> "Socialism=Oppression." You been screaming it from a mountaintop like some kind of "Rushbot" since you came here.

> Do you know why there is so much govt regulation of business? Because your greedy heroes have proved time and time again that their only loyalty is to a buck. They don't give a crap about you, me, the church, or this country, Captain Patriotism.

> Their first "religion" is the dollar.

> Right now it suits them to beholden a "religious right", be Republican. Would you believe they were "secular progressive" Democrats when they stole Federal Reserve?

> You talk about sheep. Obviously you don't have any mirrors at home.

 

Bravo! Why not put him on "ignore"? I did.

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Bravo! Why not put him on "ignore"? I did.

 

Sure, why not? The Republicans have put climate change, the exploding deficit, U.S. service personnel's need for body armor and effective rolling armor, need for new auto fleet fuel-economy standards, and the lack of any connection between al-Qua'ida and Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi civil war (to cite just a few examples) on "ignore," and look at how well things are going.

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"Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls" takes place in 1950s and explores among other things- atomic bombs, the Red scare, and yes the villains are Russians. As far as communism is concern- I actually lived under a communist regime so I know first hand what that like. I'm against any form of government LEFT or RIGHT that denies its people basic human rights. This thread started because someone notice a pro communist agenda in some of the films from the past. Films have always been used to persuade . There is a very funny documentary about musicals produced by the Soviets and their allies during the cold war. The wonderful thing about TCM is that it allows us to see how the society has changed and in other ways remained the same. Films reflect society-we might not all agree but I rather have a chance to see them.

 

Message was edited by: joefilmone

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> {quote:title=joefilmone wrote:}{quote}

> ...There is a very funny documentary about musicals produced by the Soviets and their allies during the cold war...

 

Do you remember the name of the documentary? It sounds interesting.

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*"East Side Story" (1997) is the name of the documentary on Soviet and East German propaganda musicals."* - joefilmone

 

So, have ya seen *West Bank Story* too? Loved the "Hummus" / "Hamas" bit.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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*See what I mean..... When 'jr gets going on his soap box, ya almost feel like you should be paying admission to see the show...... So why not sit up here on a big rock and have a piece of fry bread with FredCDobbs and myself*

Sort of makes you think of the old days before tv, movies and radio, when politicians and preachers actually knew how to orate, doesn't it?

You and Fred are making me envious. Not to mention hungry.

btw, CineSage, your post that he was referring to was unworthy of you (the part directed to WhyaDuck, not the part directed to Jake), even though it did contain some good points. But wth, Jake's had plenty of posts unworthy of him too.

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"This thread should have been named 'Left, Right, Left - Part II'

I prefer 'Son Of Left Right Left.'. Adds a.........human touch"

 

Okay, this is a question of parentage. I need to know where to send the bill for damages.

If Shaneequa is considered the mother, I'm blaming the dad.

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"and wrote: ...'high infant mortality'

Conservatives are not for the above..."

 

They're not? Well, I'll be damned. Another misconception corrected. (No, no pun intended, believe me).

 

*But, what they do believe is our people must be freed to create and keep the fruits of their labors without the manacle of government keeping them enslaved.*

Now that sounds dangerously close to Communist thought there, Jake.

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*One can easily substitute "god" for "market forces" in the above, helping to make the argument that to conservatives, serving god and mammon, or making god and mammon interchangeable, is at the core of their most deeply-cherished beliefs.*

 

And that sounds dangerously close to Christian thought, time to destroy the golden calf in righteous indignation for a true morality.

Here all this time I thought you and Jake were polar opposites.

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*Conservatives rely upon their ancestors to mold the past with the present.*

 

 

Please do not speak of my ancestors and mold in the same sentence. I'm sensitive about such things. Any further discussion on this should be in the Horror forum.

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This thread started so innocently, with the gracious Shaneequa pondering a Communist and anti-Christian influence in older movies.

My first thought was the same as joefilmone's: examples. It was very dangerous to your career in Hollywood in the 50's to seem left-leaning.

Your first example seems to be *The Farmer's Daughter* (1947), in which a Swedish girl who had been working as a maid ends up running for public office, This starred Loretta Young, Joseph Cotten and Ethel Barrymore. As far as I know, no one involved ever attracted the attention of HUAC (I haven't checked). It's considered a classic statement of pro-Americana as is *Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.* (More on that some other time, heh heh). Extremely patriotic, etc. etc. I suppose I can see how someone could see it as pro-Communist, but I'm not sure just how.

The other one, about the painting the town red, reminds me of *High Plains Drifter* (1973), starring Clint Eastwood.

Jake, I need your help on this one, if you're reading, as it's been 35 years since I've seen it. Seems like I saw you say somewhere this one of your favorite westerns. I absolutely hated it, but it probably deserves another viewing by now. I'd liked everything Eastwood had done before, the Man with No Name westerns, and especially *Dirty Harry* (now that isn't exactly pro-Christian) and his first directorial effort, *Play Misty for Me.*

In spite of my respect for the man, I quit seeing most of his movies after this one. I'm supposed to have rooting interest in a rapist? What? She was supposed to have asked for it?

But like I say, correct me here, it's been 35 years.

btw, from IMDb trivia :

 

"Shortly after the film's release, Clint Eastwood wrote to John Wayne, suggesting that they make a western together. Wayne sent back an angry letter in reply, in which he denounced this film for its violence and revisionist portrayal of the Old West. Eastwood did not bother to answer his criticisms, and consequently they did not work together."

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>tobitz wrote: But, what they do believe is our people must be freed to create and keep the fruits of their labors without the manacle of government keeping them enslaved.

>Now that sounds dangerously close to Communist thought there, Jake

 

What are you talking about?

 

Close to communism? Communism believes in government running people's lives.

 

Read the sentence where I state and let the people, you and me and not the State, have the fruits of their labor by not having government tax and steal it from them.

 

Conservatives believe in small government, low taxes, less regulation, closed borders, no redistribution of wealth and liberty for its citizens.

 

Right now the average American works 4 to 5 months just to pay taxes to the government. That's enslavement. Check it out.

 

Your remark is typical Left spin. When you can't make a cogent argument, you spin it.

 

I question your reading comprehension...

 

*Liberty*

 

Message was edited by: JakeHolman

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>tobitz wrote: Please do not speak of my ancestors and mold in the same sentence. I'm sensitive about such things. Any further discussion on this should be in the Horror forum.

 

You are right...

 

Your ancestors probably belong in a horror movie...

 

If they were to run this country, like you, this country would *really* be scary...

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>tobitz wrote: I'd liked everything Eastwood had done before, the Man with No Name westerns, and especially Dirty Harry (now that isn't exactly pro-Christian) and his first directorial effort, Play Misty for Me.

 

Dirty Harry enforced the law and protected innocent citizens in a Lefty town called San Francisco. I support that.

 

>and wrote: Seems like I saw you say somewhere this one of your favorite westerns. I absolutely hated it, but it probably deserves another viewing by now. I'd liked everything Eastwood

 

Not sure if I said it was one my favorites but I did say I enjoyed the movie. It's not in my Top 10. The so-called rape scene is open to interpretation. Remember, he never was a real man.

 

He exposed the entire town to its hypocrisy...

 

Ponder it tobitz...

 

Message was edited by: JakeHolman

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Jake Holman wrote: *But, what they do believe is our people must be freed to create and keep the fruits of their labors without the manacle of government keeping them enslaved.*

I called that as sounding dangerously close to Communism because it sounds exactly like what some Communist radical would say in advocating the overthrow of an existing government. Maybe you have more in common with radical leftists than you'd like to believe.

Actually, I'd wouldn't doubt some Communist radical has said it at one time or another.

 

*Communism believes in government running people's lives.*

I think a communist would argue that they believe in people running the government rather than the government running people's lives too. Overthrow of oppressive governments and the return of control to the citizens was pretty much the mainstay of their rhetoric. Personally, I'd say that that whole rhetoric is a load of hogwash.

Communism is a form of economics, not a form of government. I suppose in some dreamworld the ideal form of government for communism would be a form of democracy with all concerned agreeing for the common good. I think this was how the early Christians tried to operate. Dream on.

The unworkability of communism is well demonstrated by the fact it's traditionally been supported by despotic, totalitarian governments, with opposition feelings from the populace being rigorously suppressed. I don't particularly like to think of myself as pro- this or anti- that, but it's my fervent belief that capitalism reflects the natural state of things, as it recognizes individual initiative as a mainspring in the system. To deny the power of the individual is completely unrealistic, and we have many individuals through history, both good and bad, that demonstrate that fact.

 

*closed borders* Are you referring to immigration policy or economic policy?

 

*Your remark is typical Left spin. When you can't make a cogent argument, you spin it*

Boy is that ever the pot calling the kettle black, Jake. I suppose I'd say I consider it typical Right spin.

 

*Liberty*

If you think I'm going to object to liberty, you just don't know me at all.

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Once upon a time back on the reservation, (NE Oklahoma to be exact), I remember my grandfather commenting to my two uncles (US Army 1942-1946 - walking tour of various parts of Africa and Europe) and myself (USMC grunt) and my cousin (US Army 101st - he visited beautiful Indochina shortly after I returned for 2nd time) Grandpa noted that the way things were going, the US and Russia would pass each other politically before too long going in the opposite direction..... Let's see..... If I want to take my wife to a beach resort in Mexico, or the mountain resorts in Canada, we need passports.... I need my driver's license to fit a "national standard format" in the name of national security. An older neighbor, (who doesn't trust banks), had his pickup and $20K in cash he had confisticated by the feds because regulations state that because it was "probably" a result of drug dealing. Before he can get his property back, he has to prove that he is innocent of such criminal activity.... Recently a US senator commented about a young service man accused of a crime in Iraq that *"he would have plenty of chances to prove his innocence in court"..* In the last month the local paper has covered stories of local police attacking civilians, abusing people being detained, and/ or shooting unarmed civilians because "They (the police) felt threatened".... A senior government official, when told that an overwhelming majority of the public was against certain policies, sneered *"So"*....... Next time I see grandpa, I'll ask what he meant...............................

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