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AFI's Top Ten In Ten Genres


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Well, things are perfectly timed for me tonight as I can catch *Bad Day At Black Rock* and then catch the newest AFI special.

 

Does anyone know what the Ten Genres the AFI is going to include in this special? I assume there will be "Musical", "Romance", "Adventure" and "Comedy". And I think I saw "Animation" in a promo for the special this weekend. All worthy topics. Just curious what the others might be.

 

And consider this a thread for Discussion of the special too.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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*"You could not pay me to watch this!"* - gagman66

 

You're sentiments are shared by a large number of folks. But they do take their methodology seriously when preparing these specials.

 

As for me, you couldn't pay me to watch *Tea House Of The August Moon* again (not enough Paul Ford) - but I'll try to catch the intro.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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While they may not be the serious film buff's love fest that they once were back in the early 1970s, they do try to spotlight classic films for today's audience and they do try to create interest in those films.

 

While I still lament and miss those early love fests (the tribute dinner to John Ford, Jimmy Cagney, Orson Welles, Hitch, etc) and I wish they had the clout and the desire to appeal to both the die-hard fan like many of us and the newbies. They do create interest in classic films and in today's world of many technologies and many distractions, they at least deserve recognition for that.

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Lynn,

 

I guess i just got ticked off at the AFI several years ago, and still hold a bit of a grudge? It just angers me that the same few films, and Stars are routinely emphasized.

 

It's just like the guest programmers? Haven't these people seen any other movies? In my view there are plenty of other films out there that just do not get the degree of recognition and exposure that they deserve to receive.

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hlywdkjk,

 

Fairbanks! Are you kidding me? Where did THE THIEF OF BAGDAD rank? Did they list Silent films? Or was that under the Fantasy Movies category? I was under the impresion that Silents were being ommited again???

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*"Where did THE THIEF OF BAGDAD rank? Did they list Silent films? Or was that under the Fantasy Movies category?"*

 

You're right. It was in the "Fantasy Genre" Top Ten. And it ranked #9 or #8.

Perhaps not surprisingly, Leonard Maltin was (I think) the only person asked to talk about it.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

 

(and *City Lights* was just listed as the #1 Romantic Comedy - above *Annie Hall* and *It Happened One Night*.)

 

Message was edited by: hlywdkjk

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I thought the AFI top 100 movie list was OK, but the next year it was the best dramas and then the best comedys and now this.......

 

As Ernie Kovacs once said about television, the motto is, If It Works, Beat It To Death.

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Every time AFI releases these lists, I'm always left with mixed feelings. This year, I felt they didn't select the 10 best genres. They left out big ones such as Musicals, War Movies, basic Comedy, Drama, Horror, etc... This is their list, incase you didn't get to see it yet. Personally, I was disappointed in the romantic comedies list mainly because it's one of my favorite genres. I felt they left out very good romantic comedies such as Bringing Up Baby, Pillow Talk, What's Up, Doc?, The Shop Around the Corner, Father Goose... I know all of these can't be on the list, but I feel that some are much better quality than the ones selected. That's just my personal opinion; check out the list and then post your thoughts!

*Animation*

1. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs 1937

2. Pinocchio 1940

3. Bambi 1942

4. The Lion King 1994

5. Fantasia 1940

6. Toy Story 1995

7. Beauty and the Beast 1991

8. Shrek 2001

9. Cinderella 1950

10. Finding Nemo 2003

*Fantasy*

1. The Wizard of Oz 1939

2. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring 2001

3. It's a Wonderful Life 1946

4. King Kong 1933

5. Miracle on 34th Street 1947

6. Field of Dreams 1989

7. Harvey 1950

8. Groundhog Day 1993

9. The Thief of Bagdad 1924

10. Big 1988

*Sci-fi*

1. 2001: A Space Odyssey 1968

2. Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope 1977

3. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial 1982

4. A Clockwork Orange 1971

5. The Day the Earth Stood Still 1951

6. Blade Runner 1982

7. Alien 1979

8. Terminator 2: Judgment Day 1991

9. Invasion of the Body Snatchers 1956

10. Back to the Future 1985

*Sports*

1. Raging Bull 1980

2. Rocky 1976

3. The Pride of the Yankees 1942

4. Hoosiers 1986

5. Bull Durham 1988

6. The Hustler 1961

7. Caddyshack 1980

8. Breaking Away 1979

9. National Velvet 1944

10. Jerry Maguire 1996

*Western*

1. The Searchers 1956

2. High Noon 1952

3. Shane 1953

4. Unforgiven 1992

5. Red River 1948

6. The Wild Bunch 1969

7. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 1969

8. McCabe and Mrs. Miller 1971

9. Stagecoach 1939

10. Cat Ballou 1965

*Gangster*

1. The Godfather 1972

2. Goodfellas 1990

3. The Godfather Part II 1974

4. White Heat 1949

5. Bonnie and Clyde 1967

6. Scarface: The Shame of the Nation 1932

7. Pulp Fiction 1994

8. The Public Enemy 1931

9. Little Caesar 1931

10. Scarface 1983

*Mystery*

1. Vertigo 1958

2. Chinatown 1974

3. Rear Window 1954

4. Laura 1944

5. The Third Man 1949

6. The Maltese Falcon 1941

7. North by Northwest 1959

8. Blue Velvet 1986

9. Dial M for Murder 1954

10. The Usual Suspects 1995

*Romantic Comedies*

1. City Lights 1931

2. Annie Hall 1977

3. It Happened One Night 1934

4. Roman Holiday 1953

5. The Philadelphia Story 1940

6. When Harry Met Sally... 1989

7. Adam's Rib 1949

8. Moonstruck 1987

9. Harold and Maude 1971

10. Sleepless in Seattle 1993

*Courtroom Drama*

1. To Kill a Mockingbird 1962

2. 12 Angry Men 1957

3. Kramer vs. Kramer 1979

4. The Verdict 1982

5. A Few Good Men 1992

6. Witness for the Prosecution 1957

7. Anatomy of a Murder 1959

8. In Cold Blood 1967

9. A Cry in the Dark 1988

10. Judgment at Nuremberg 1961

*Epic*

1. Lawrence of Arabia 1962

2. Ben-Hur 1959

3. Schindler's List 1993

4. Gone with the Wind 1939

5. Spartacus 1960

6. Titanic 1997

7. All Quiet on the Western Front 1930

8. Saving Private Ryan 1998

9. Reds 1981

10. The Ten Commandments 1956

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I think the AFI was quite fair to classic Hollywood films: Fantasy had 6 of the 10 from that era, with all other genres well infused with older films as well. Even a modern genre like Science Fiction spread the timeline as well.

 

I think they avoided musicals since they already dedicated one of their 100 years shows to that genre. Likewise, straight dramatic films are too broad a category and they've certainly honored the likes of Citizen Kane and Casablanca often enough. I do think that some genres they did select, such as Courtroom Drama and Sports made it difficult to come up with 50 quality finalists each,

 

I guess my biggest head-scratcher was Cat Ballou over My Darling Clementine, The Oxbow Incident or a dozen other finalists. Maybe it was the only way they could get Jane Fonda to appear on the show.

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This year, I felt they didn't select the 10 best genres. They left out big ones such as Musicals, War Movies, basic Comedy, Drama, Horror, etc.>>

 

Starstruck,

 

They may be going with this format for the next few years and rather than try to cover all genres last night, they wanted to spread them out over two (or possibly three) years so that they could focus more on the films chosen rather than trying to do too much within the confines of three hours.

 

I don't know that for a fact but it does make sense to me.

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CITY LIGHTS has some of the finest moments in movies. It's hilarious, heart-breaking and poetic. But some bits appear forced, and not as funny as they might be. I also prefer ANNIE HALL. My favorite romantic comedy is THE APARTMENT. You could just as easily call it drama. But it has wit, quirk and misunderstanding, like classic comedy. One of the very best movies I've seen.

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The biggest problem with these lists (apart from the obvious fact that they're popularity contests, and not chosen according to any even remotely objective criteria) is that many of the genres selected are mis-characterized. Sometimes this is because a film can clearly belong to two or more genres (in which case one must step back and decide to which it most strongly conforms), but in others it's just sloppiness (i.e. STAR WARS is a fantasy film; just because characters fly around in spaceships doesn't make it science fiction, whose definition has always been that it mae at least some kind of nods to actual scientific principles. By contrast, Star Trek is science fiction).

 

Other misplaced films:

 

FIELD OF DREAMS. Yes, it certainly is a fantasy, but it really belongs with sports movies.

E.T.. Fantasy, not SF.

BLADE RUNNER. Definitely belongs in Mysteries category. A futuristic mystery is still a mystery.

ALIEN and THE INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS are, first and foremost, horror films.

BACK TO THE FUTURE is a comedy (and an especially odd choice, since the general consensus is that BTtF II is the best film in the trilogy).

CAT BALLOU is a comedy (and a decidedly dated, stale, forced and unfunny one, at that. Of all the films on these lists, it's the most undeserving entry of all).

SCHINDLER'S LIST is a hard film to classify, but it certainly doesn't belong among the Epics.

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You know, I had seen the commercials for AFI show on Tuesday night.....but completely forgot about it! Thank you to "starstruck" for posting the list here in this thread, and now I know what I missed.

 

I would also put E.T as "Fantasy" - Alien would be in "Horror".....liked the "Romantic Comedies" list though. And of course...."The Godfather" rules wherever and whenever.....!

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*"The biggest problem with these lists (snip) is that many of the genres selected are mis-characterized."* - CSjr.

 

I agree. More than once last evening I was going "No! That's not right!" in regard to mis-placement of films in the genres selected.

 

While I consider *Back To The Future* a nice comedy, I think it is first and foremost a Fantasy film. But *Miracle On 34^th^ Street* isn't all that much of a Fantasy to me. (I also think *Here Comes Mr. Jordan* is a better Fantasy film than either of the two mentioned.)

 

I also never think of *Harold and Maude* as a Romantic Comedy - simply because they share a bed and get engaged. Their's wasn't a Romantic relationship in my mind. I don't think Maude was in love - or even lust - with Harold. She was just his "life coach". But the neglected *The Awful Truth* ? Now _that's_ a Romantic Comedy.

 

Same for *In Cold Blood* as a courtroom drama. I'd no more think of that film as a courtroom film than I would *A Place In The Sun* - a pre- "Perry Mason" Raymond Burr not withstanding.

 

I was also surprised at the inclusion of *Dial M For Murder* in the mystery Top Ten. This over the truly mysterious *Rebecca* ? It must be the result of that "Grace Kelly in a nightgown" thing that it has going for it.

 

That said, all in all I enjoyed the program. Only *City Lights* as a #1 took me by surprise. All the other #1s were easy to guess - if one had seen any of the previous AFI specials.

 

And is there no movie that Amy Madigan hasn't seen? She was all over the show last night. And good for her for being that well acquainted with the best of Amreican films. I think she would be a great Guest Programmer for TCM.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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*"I just don't understand how they could leave "Inherit the Wind" out of the top ten courtroom dramas."* - filmlover

 

Me either. I was half expecting it to come in at #1 when it still wasn't seen by the time *12 Angry Men* was named #2.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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The problem with these list is that sometimes they have more to do with contemporary taste than actual quality-and some of the choices were bizarre " Dial M For Murder" is not a mystery movie- its a thriller. But let's look on the bright side if these list make people want to watch classic movies its not a bad thing.

 

Message was edited by: joefilmone

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If CITY LIGHTS is the Number 1 Romantic Comedy, and I personally feel that it is deserving, why hasn't this film been shown on TCM in years??? I have said before it should have been the very first Silent on the Essentails, and it still hasn't been featured yet! The first was Keaton's STEAMBOAT BILL JUNIOR a few years back.

 

My top 10 would have included at least two more Silent's in this same catogory Ernst Lubitsch OLD HEIDELBERG (1927), and Harold Lloyd's GIRL SHY (1924). Both among the great romantic comedies ever produced.

 

I have no trouble with the four Hitchcock pictures being included overall.

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Yeah, I guessed some number ones right!!!

 

(Mainly the easy ones like "To Kill A Mocking Bird", "Wizard Of Oz", "Godfather".......)

 

 

I was very sad to see this thread because I forgot to watch the special, which I really wanted to watch! I was instead watching the VERY depressing game between the Lakers (my favs) and the Celtics.

 

I was also VERY surprised about the romantic comedy choice! I expected "It Happened One Night" to win. For me that is one of the DEFINITIVE "romantic comedies"! (Along with "The Awful Truth", "His Girl Friday", and "Pillow Talk")

 

Also, how did "Roman Holiday" ,make it so high on the list? That is not what I consider a Comedy! It ends rather sadly! (I can say that because I count it as one of my all-time favorite films!)

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*"If CITY LIGHTS is the Number 1 Romantic Comedy, and I personally feel that it is deserving, why hasn't this film been shown on TCM in years???"* - gagman66

 

Maybe it's a conspiracy? Or cause they just wanted to torture ya?

(Kidding ya, gagman!)

 

In case you've missed it -

_Summer Under The Stars_ 2008

*Charlie Chaplin* - Saturday August 2^nd^

 

Films include -

Knockout, The (1914)

Rounders, The (1914)

Dog's Life, A (1918)

Shoulder Arms (1918)

Sunnyside (1919)

Day's Pleasure, A (1919)

Kid, The (1921)

Idle Class, The (1921)

Pay Day (1922)

Pilgrim, The (1923)

Woman of Paris, A (1923)

Gold Rush, The (1925)

Circus, The (1928)

*City Lights* (1931)

Charlie: The Life and Art of Charles Chaplin (2003)

Modern Times (1936)

Great Dictator, The (1940)

Monsieur Verdoux (1947)

Limelight (1952)

King in New York, A (1957)

 

Don't know why *City Lights* has been overlooked as part of "The Essentials" in the past but at least *Modern Times* gets included in the series this year.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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Also, how did "Roman Holiday" ,make it so high on the list? That is not what I consider a Comedy! It ends rather sadly! (I can say that because I count it as one of my all-time favorite films!)

 

ROMAN HOLIDAY is a romantic comedy; there's simply no other way to characterize it. And the ending isn't sad, merely melancholy, but the point the film tries to make is that love is only proved through sacrifice. That said, for all its pleasures (and they are many) the film certainly isn't perfect: it's perhaps ten of fifteen minutes too long, and Gregory Peck is terribly miscast. The very fact that he is Gregory Peck means that he'll always do the right thing (when Ann asks that Joe remain in his car and not follow her as she returns to her country's embassy, the audience knows that Joe will comply because he's, well, Gregory Peck. That tied director William Wyer's hands dramatically, since it placed the entire dramatic burden of keeping the audience guessing on Audrey Hepburn's shoulders. Had William Holden, and actor who excelled at morally ambiguous roles, played Joe, it would have allowed for greater dramatic choices on Wyler's part, and resulted in a better movie).

 

Then there's the matter of the scene at the fountain where Joe tries to talk the schoolgirl (Judy Wyler, Willy Wyler's younger daughter) out of her camera. If it had been Holden lifting the camera strap off her neck as she protests meekly, it might've worked if conducted as a con-job you can imagine Holden trying to pull off; with Peck doing it it's as though he were trying to put his hand up the girl's skirt, and is just plain creepy).

 

While I consider Back To The Future a nice comedy, I think it is first and foremost a Fantasy film. But Miracle On 34th Street isn't all that much of a Fantasy to me. (I also think Here Comes Mr. Jordan is a better Fantasy film than either of the two mentioned.)

 

And THE GHOST AND MRS MUIR and Powell & Pressburger's A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH are better fantasies than any of them. The latter also qualifies as a courtroom drama (even if the trial takes place in Heaven's celestial courtroom). And where was Lubitsch's HEAVEN CAN WAIT (not to be confused with the Warren Beatty film, which is a re-make of HERE COMES MR JORDAN.

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