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> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> *The Americanization of Emily* is on tonight at 3:00 a.m. (EST), one of my favorite

> movies of the 1960s. I just love Jim Garner's character and the marvelous "speeches"

> Paddy Chayevsky wrote for him. Great, great movie and I encourage everyone to watch

> or record it. I haven't seen it in ages, and I'm not sure I can stay up that late but I will

> record it.


You mean speeches like his great European put-down? I love it :x

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Thank you! You're so kind. I'm glad you enjoyed my heartfelt comments, Miss Goddess. And you're so absolutely right about Gaston.


It's just I'm on the shallow side and Robert Taylor's looks are blinding, pre-mustache days. Poor boy. D'ya think he ever recovered from Marguerite? I think he's still mourning, one hundred and sixty years later.

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CM- that was beautiful!


You say Garbo's Marguerite is "not very nice" to take money from the Baron to finance her tryst with Armand, and I agree to some extent, but this was the only way a woman of that time could get money. Women were not able to work, except as courtesans; or own anything, except through their relationships with men. Marguerite's relationship with the Baron is just more overtly horrible than what women went through in their everyday lives back then. So she is trapped. And the implication is that men like the Baron are sort of to blame for creating the trap in the first place.

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Oh this is awesome. I'll admit yesterday made me a Garbo fan. I'd never seen Camille. At least not all of it. I'd seen the end. I knew it was a three hankie number, but the thing that got me was the humor. I hadn't expected the movie to be so funny. I love the grotesque caricatures of her demi-monde friends. I want to go to that party where the ladies wear outrageous dress, dance the can can till they literally fall over and smoke cigars. I love that they ignore dying Camille. And she wouldn't have it any other way. She says she's no better than them and the audience knows that's wrong, that its all part of her feeling she doesn't deserve love. But I think there is a part of her that would be out there partying if she could and she wouldn't want them to all stand at her bedside wringing their hands. That's just how she rolls. She doesn't give a d@mn when the guests roll out the door with all of the food (I love that!).


I agree that Gaston is the unrecognized prince of the thing. I thought he was funny and charming throughout. He is as loyal as Armand in his way and I think he has a far more realistic idea of Margeurite than Armand. Armand is a bit clueless and naive. He knows what Marguerite is. Jack Favell is dead on. She couldn't do anything other than ask the baron for the money. She had no other means and she knew Armand couldn't afford to finance their summer of love.


I love the scene with Lionel Barrymore, the way she drops to her knees suddenly when she makes up her mind to do what she's going to do. The scene afterward when she drives the knife home as CD said, is amazing. She is wearing the same outfit from the beginning of the movie, but there is a hardness to her. Her make-up is heavier. Her curls are tighter. It's a subtle thing, but it changes the whole mood. She is artificial.


I was blown away by the way that Garbo acts in Camille. I'd always thought of her as a great face actress, one who was made for close-ups. But she uses her whole body in Camille. She looses twenty pounds by the end just in how she angles her body. When she wants to show exhaustion she does it with just a slight slump of the shoulders and a droopy eye. It says more than words ever could about how she feels about the Baron. It's not personal. It's just business.


I agree that pre-moustache Robert taylor is tha bomb. He's so pretty and young. And you are so right, CM, that he is the chick in this chickflic!

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> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> You mean speeches like his great European put-down? I love it


> Yes, it's one of the best come-backs ever. I also love his speeches about "cowardice".


I know. I keep waiting to run into a very obnoxious or stuck-up European just to repeat that whole speech. But so far, they've always been very nice to me. B-)

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Oh one more thing. When you quoted the speech from the Casino. I hadn't realized that he said "grave." I thought he said "brain." Grave makes way more sense and is far better.


I had a hard time understanding both Taylor and Garbo at times. In many ways Taylor was worse. They don't always enunciate all that well.

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Your description of CAMILLE is mesmerizing; I loved reading it.


Garbo is great here.


Robert Taylor -- not just another pretty face.


I love Daniell and Marguerite at the piano, cynically laughing, laughing.....


Wish TCM ran a better print, though.

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Jack, MissGoddess, Bronxgirl..."Beautifully described." "That was beautiful." "Mesmerizing."


Geeeez, I have not been able to pull my tee-shirt over my (now swelled) head because of your kind kind comments on my writing on a great motion picture. Your words are very encouraging to me as a fledgling screenwriter. More than you'll ever know.


I humbly thank you.


BTW Jack, I note and agree that this was the way things were done back then with women not being allowed to have their own bonafide economic power. I understand.

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Yes Jack, sad but true, of women of that period. Part of Anna Karenina's trouble too, since her hubby has all the money and power. I like both Garbo Anna K performances, silent and talking. But despite being mercenary, Camille is generous with her friends, one of her more charming qualities such as when she pays for the friend's wedding dress and party in the country or when she buys the horses along with the old coachman. There is a vulnerability about her which makes her courtesan status almost appealing. She once was a country girl, so her glittery life in the city is far removed from her humble roots a long, tough road.

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Maven: I love what you wrote...beautiful. Thanks.


GBF Gaston, Armand and her personal maid are her only true friends which is part of her tragedy. Laura Hope Crews gives a chilling performance as the greedy dressmaker. IMHO she is worse than Camille. Prudance overcharges her customers, shows up at odd moments in the guise of "friendship"...pretty creepy. If Gaston was not such a doll, he would have thrown her out! I find that scene where she comes for money while Camille is dying upsetting. The woman is a vulture.

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> {quote:title=AnnieLaurie wrote:}{quote}

> Yes Jack, sad but true, of women of that period. Part of Anna Karenina's trouble too, since her hubby has all the money and power. I like both Garbo Anna K performances, silent and talking. But despite being mercenary, Camille is generous with her friends, one of her more charming qualities such as when she pays for the friend's wedding dress and party in the country or when she buys the horses along with the old coachman. There is a vulnerability about her which makes her courtesan status almost appealing. She once was a country girl, so her glittery life in the city is far removed from her humble roots a long, tough road.


Hi Annie! It makes it doubly touching to me when I remember that this woman was

a real person. The story Alexander Dumas, fils wrote was based on a real courtesan. And

did you know that surviving members of the family of the real "Camille" sent Garbo some

mementos of her and told her in a letter that they thought very highly of her interpretation.

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I have been searching for a place to ask this query and this seems to be the best one, I found.


My question concerns the TCM running of Fred MacMurray films today-08/09/08. I have never and still am not a fan of Fred MacMurray. I am sure he was a wonderful son, father, grandfather, husband, uncle, etc. I just have never felt comfortable watching any of his films.


In Double Indemnity, I think he fails miserable as believable. Edward G and Barbara are excellent, but Fred is not. I have watched that film numerous times and just don't get why he was cast in that part over many actors, who at that time. would have done a better acting job?.


His comedies are okay, think he did better in his TV series. If anyone can convince me I am wrong, I welcome their answers. Thanks.

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I just watched, thanks to Jeffrey, Raoul Walsh's silent What Price Glory? It may be "silent"

but it's noisy with humanity, really some of the most natural behavior (it's not even acting,

it's more real) and situations to do with men away from home at war that I've ever seen. Victor

McLaglen, Edmnd Lowe and Dolores Del Rio star. I've never seen Vic so attractive, if I loved

him before now I adore him, or Dolores so earthy and charming. She's not yet the somewhat

aloof but exquisitely beautiful creature she would become in a few short years in movies like

Flying Down to Rio; I wouldn't have even recognized her. She plays "Charmaine", a shall

we say "free French" country girl, one of the many "ladies" Vic and Lowe fight over (Lowe

always stealing away his girl in front after front around the world from Peking to France). There

really isn't any plot, it's all situations of soldierly life, the **** and drinking of course but

it's so natural and free you can see the attraction to it some men must have had, in spite

of it's realistic deptiotion of the hardwhips---it doesn't glamorize war (far from it) and it is not

about officers, it's about the real _soldier_. Most of these men acting in it were the real thing

who had lived rugged enough lives before making pictures and you can feel it. I think Walshie

may have been the best of the action directors who could get men on the screen behaving in the

most natural way. Not even Hawks is as good at that, maybe Wellman is closer. The movie has

a wonderful looseness to it, and an "off the cuff" feel. This and it's overall muscularity and vigor

make it a truly American classic. I recommend it to anyone exploring silents for the first time,

I like it even better than *Wings* and that's saying a great deal. You could NOT make this movie

today, I don't even think Ford's remake even compares. It is a moment in time yet the end result

is timeless (at least so long as there are wars and men who go off from home to fight).


Why are silents about the war so much better to me than the sound movies in general. I

wonder. I usually avoid "war movies" like the plague. This one was fun, funny and very

touching, full of sweat and blood and tears (of joy and sadness).


You guys have to see *Dolores*, she's indescribable. So natural and free of any of the

affectation of Hollywood---you could have knocked me down. I always liked her, but

now she's become a favorite. Seems like only directors like Walsh and Ford really knew what

to do with her north of the border.


Oh, by the way, Walsh said in an interview this movie got so many letters from lip readers

who could tell that the words between MacLaglen and Lowe were NOT so polite as the

titles would have you believe and such a fuss was kicked up---that the movie made more

than doubled it's box office. Listen, I can't read lips but even I can tell that what those

two were saying was, well, unfit for a mixed audience. ;)


This is now my favorite Walsh movie, along with *High Sierra*, and, oh, so many others.


Director Walsh (L) and cast...



Edmund Lowe and Dolores del Rio



An improvised tableau with actors from What Price Glory?, photographed by the famous Edward

Steichen, which I think captures the naturalism and grittiness of the film:


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Hey, I'm so glad that you finally watched WHAT PRICE GLORY? I am so pleased after all these months. While I love the film myself, I must tell you that some of the people I know just hated this movie after their having seen King Vidor's THE BIG PARADE before-hand. I don't kniow why, but they just did not like it at all by comparrison?


In this case, you have actually seen WHAT PRICE GLORY?, first, so I will be quite interested to see what you think of THE BIG PARADE afterward? WHAT PRICE GLORY?, is definitely not as good as THE BIG PARADE, but than very few films are.


So now, When do you think you might be able to fit THE BIG PARADE into your busy schedule??? Anytime soon?



*The following Moved over here from another thread I started a few weeks ago.*


Just a little taste of Raoul Walsh Classic World War 1 drama WHAT PRICE GLORY? Some capture still's from my DVD-R of the film. It's a shame you can't hear the Erno-Rapee-Lew Pollack Fox-Movie-tone score with the images. Just fabulous! Including "Charmaine"!


King Vidor had actually planned to make WHAT PRICE GLORY?, in late 1924 at MGM. When He discovered that Fox had already snapped up the rights. So Vidor produced THE BIG PARADE instead. Ironically, By the time WHAT PRICE GLORY? was finally released in late 1926, it had become Fox's attempt to try an top THE BIG PARADE.


WHAT PRICE GLORY? was not able to match the THE BIG PARADE'S unprecedented level of success. However, it was still one of the biggest, and most popular films of the second half of the 1920's. Making Major Stars of both Victor McLaglen, and Delores Del Rio. Edmund Lowe was already a well established Star by this time.


WHAT PRICE GLORY is an awesome film! One of my favorite Silent's. Very different from THE BIG PARADE, even though the story was written by the same guy, one "Lawrence Stallings"! It is not as good as THE BIG PARADE, but then what is? WHAT PRICE GLORY? had been a huge hit on the Stage in 1923-24.


McLaglen and Lowe in the rolls of "Captain Flagg" and "Sergeant Quirt" are both hilarious, as they constantly bicker back and forth among each other. In the early part of the picture, Quirt repeatedly steals all of Flagg's Woman, including a saucy Phyllis Haver in a guest part as the shameless seductress "Shanghai Mabel". She of the much ogled backside. Picking up stray Marines at the drop of a handbag! Haver is always funny and is a genuine hoot here! She should have been in more of the picture though. There was plenty of room for her to stick around for awhile.


The beauteous melody "Charmaine" written expressly for the films original release score, by the prolific composing duo of Erno Rapee', and Lew Pollack, went on to become a number one hit record, with lyrics added for Guy Lombardo, & His Royal Canadians in 1927.




























































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Hi Jeff! Wow, thanks for those marvelous screencaps.


I actually have seen *The Big Parade* before and I like it very much, though I prefer *The Crowd*. However, it's like I said, the silent movies that dealt with war somehow appeal to me more than many of the sound films later on. They seem to be more emotional. I couldn't really compare What Price Glory? to The Big Parade---they are both so different to each other in tone and all. TBP is more like an artist's vision, WPG is more like a soldier's, that's the best way I can put it from my own point of view.

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