Movie Rambles

[rohanaka]

I've botched up a perfectly good conversation

 

Maybe sometime, somewhere... but not here now, young'un. :-) (And PS.... FINALLY... a movie you've seen that I have too. Ha)

 

Dame May Whitty...not her usual ditsy self a la "Gaslight." She was a cold imperious old lady. She excellently played the scene when she was left alone in the house. I totally put aside my editing and was glued to the screen. How could this be, I've never wanted to see this movie. I freaked when she got out of the chair.

 

Really?? See I remember watching this thing the first time... and I kept HOPING she would get out of that chair... I remembered the passing comment from the cook about her..."If SHE"S an invalid..something something blah blah blah" (I can't remember the end part of her comment) and all I could do from that moment on was sit and wonder and wait to see if she really was able to get up and just used that chair and her "palpitations" for manipulative purposes and to "get sympathy"... or maybe better... to "give guilt" to anyone who might think of leaving her or consider holding her accountable for any rude or outlandish thing she might say. Whe she stood up to go get her chocolates... I wanted to say... AH HAH!! Got you know you old buzzard". Ha.

 

In fact... I kept waiting for him to try and bait her by doing something like putting the chocolates out of reach and then sitting back and watching to see if she would take the bait. THAT would have been a fun twist in the story... but I digress.

 

Abnormal Psychology

 

THAT could be a "subtitle" for this film... It is a VERY interesting study. I like how you really seem to get an insight everybody's "true self"... in little way sometimes... but in loud screaming ways as well.

 

When Roz is standing by the window and tells the detective about her thoughts on what might be out in the woods... you get your first glimpse of the "real" her. And at first it wasn't as creepy (I am starting to love that word) to me as it probably should have been. I have often heard news stories about bodies that have been found for some time after they went missing and I get "poetic thoughts" about how the world around that scene bore silent witness to the crime as everyone else went about their daily lives... (but before you move one seat over to get further away from me.. I never went so far as picturing a bird resting on anybody's body's high heeled shoe. Ha)

 

Still, her very thorough description of the thoughts that were passing through her mind were a really good glimpse to the fact that she was possibly looking for some sort of excitement (as Miss G said)

 

And your comments about "Danny-boy" Montgomery and the cat are great. He told Roz that he could more or less have that old lady eating out of his hand and then he proceeded to show her. And it was only a matter of seconds until he knew what bait to use... and then the old girl was had... "hook, line, and sinker". And then so was Roz in a way. (but not the SAME way.)

 

And for a while, I think he liked that she saw through him... but not in a transparent way... He never really was "transparent" for her until the very end... maybe he was more "translucent". But it was enough of a glimpse for her to be able to see him for what he was and he liked the "private show" that he put on for her the whole time he was playing for the old woman and all the others too. (When she catches the price tag on the shawl... and then lets him "off the hook"... he realizes for sure that he has her on a bit of a hook now instead)

 

Miss Goddess wrote:

I thought the scene in the kitchen was one of the best. He was so smart, he could

read her like a book. The interesting thing is it really took Danny to show Rosalind

her true self. She is rather a superior prig and prideful at first. He makes her confront the fact

that she has somewhat baser desires like anyone else. And it really sticks in her craw!

 

That's exactly it... that was the attraction for her but it was also the "confusion" in her life as well... "WHY am I acting this way?? Is this really ME?" It took her getting to that "hat box moment' I think for her to really see how far she'd let herself go in this fantasy game... (Just the thought of her carrying that box in her hand across the room and putting it in her own room... No wonder Montgomery fainted... I almost did too) But I think that this is what it took for her to really take stock and see... Ok.. not just a fantasy anymore. Time to get out.

 

And yet... I am really wondering about her reason for leaving and coming back that night. I really do think she left because she just couldn't take it anymore.. she just could not stand herself being so caught up in the whole thing... but did she come back for the reason SHE said.. or the reason HE said... I just don't know. It was so late last night, and I was so tired by that time (and it's been so long since I saw it the first time), I may have missed some of what was being said... I need to watch the ending again to be sure.

 

But can I take being CREEPED out again??????? And so soon after all the creepiness of watching it last night?? I still need to watch London at Night... I don't know if my system can handle that much Creep in one week. Maybe I will just have to wonder about it and watch again later.

 

PS: Miss Goddess wrote:

After all, she already had an admirer, someone nice and steady so her life wasn't that awful, though she seemed to chafe under it. I know the old lady was a terrible drain to work for---I wonder if secretly Rosalind longed for her to be the next victim, lol!

 

April.. you are making a joke... and yet... I think maybe secretly... she might have wished for it. But maybe in more of a "I didn't really mean it" sort of way... I think she was needing to break out of the "mold' she was in... but I don' t really think she had any evil intentions. I think she was just willing to let herself be seduced by that "dark side" of things for a while. She needed to feel the excitement. But she DID have issues with that old bird... so maybe...

 

And everytime the dashing lawyer kept saying "come with me... I want to take you away from all of this" I kept yelling at the tv.. "SAY YES you idgit!" But... I guess she had a few things to work out first. :-)

[JackFavell]

Come back! I love what you wrote so far - so go find those notes, and ramble some more!

 

Re: Night Must Fall -

 

*SPOILERS*

I've never liked Roz in her "English" phase either - pronounced "eye-thuh"........But she was so good here at playing uptight, English, bored and super-smart. Obviously, there had been no one around Olivia for years (including Alan Marshall) who really challenged her mind, or saw what a brilliant woman she was. There was something attracting Roz to Bobby - excitement, absolutely, but also there was something familiar - she RECOGNIZED something in him....that was also in herself..... what was it? I can't quite put it down in words. A sense of being on the outside, looking in? A brilliance, albeit a sick one? Being too smart for your surroundings? The fire staring and rabbit/snake metaphors are dead on....Did anyone else notice that at least 2 times after Dora found the body, Roz used the expression, "I lost my head"?

 

I LOVED the way the hatbox took the screen in bigger and bigger ways as the movie progressed..... It was such a wonderfully designed hatbox too, oddly shaped, with just the right off kilter, roll-ey, weight to it and the feminine ribbon wrapped around it like a scarf....

 

I love the way the old Dame freaked out.Throughout the movie, she was just awful, with NO redeeming qualities. But then, when she started to get scared, you still felt sorry for her. It was silly and kind of heartwrenching at the same time. I was comparing her performance here to her performance in The Lady Vanishes, myself. Couldn't be two more different performances...or this one and Lassie Come Home, sniff.

 

I love the way this movie was directed, though I am hard pressed to tell you what Richard Thorpe did specifically. I did notice that the old lady's big scene seemed to last FOREVER..... he really took his time with it, which made me happily uncomfortable and squirmy, waiting for someone to pop out and go BOO! I think that's what I liked the most about Thorpe's direction - he took his time.

 

I love that knowing the ending did not ruin the movie in any way, in fact, it made it better.

 

I also liked that the movie did not really go where you expected it to - for instance, I was waiting for that cat to show up dead. I must say I am happy about that one not going as expected! In movies of this type I am quite OK watching humans get offed, but if an animal gets killed it destroys me. Rear Window is the prime example, and quite upsetting to me.

 

I loved the interplay between Kathleen Harrison as Cook, and Merle Tottenham as Dora, the maid. Very Upstairs, Downstairs. I have always loved Kathleen Harrison, especially her voice, and if I ever played Mistress Quickly, describing the death of Falstaff, I would shamelessly copy her voice and manner.....

 

Anyhow, I enjoyed my hot tea and the movie so much, I popped in Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (1931) But I fell asleep shortly after it started. What I really should have done was put in Night Must Fall AGAIN.....

[MissGoddess]

Yes, come back little Maven, come back and finish your ramble....I'm especially grinning

big and hard at your Bobby Montgomery "conversion"

 

Ladies Wendy & Kathy---MARVELOUS rambles on Night Must Fall! Larry, FrankGrimes,

anyone else see it? Frank this movie is especially up your creepy dark alley.

 

"Oh...Danny Boy...."

 

By the way, was Danny Irish or not? If so.... Ha!!

[rohanaka]

but did she come back for the reason SHE said.. or the reason HE said...

 

Ok... Went back and looked at the ending again... and creeped myself out all over again!!

 

SHE DID come back for the reason he said.. and he tells her... "you don't know me"... and she admits... "I am seeing you now for the first time"... (going back to what I was saying about the whole translucent/transparent thing...)

 

Oh me... I may have to leave the hall light on tonight at bedtime! The QT sleeps like a rock.. He'd never wake up in time if Danny boy showed up with his hatbox!!! :-)

[JackFavell]

Oh, of course! Irish! I loved his accent, but that puts a little spin on the plot doesn't it?

 

Whatever he was, I thought he did it great. He was sooo disarming. and I loved what Ro said - how he liked it that Roz knew his game..... He was just as excited by her as she was by him.... he needed someone to know what he did - he was proud of it.

[MissGoddess]

He was just as excited by her as she was by him.... he needed someone to know what he did - he was proud of it.

 

Wendy you brought up precisely what I was going to mention---his need to have someone

know what he had "accomplished". He had a clear streak of "meglomania" in him---he believed

he was infinitely cleverer than anyone else (which wasn't too far from the truth) and his ego

had to have that acknowleged. Didn't he even mention something about the newpapers---I seem

to recall he wanted them to write about him. This is a character trait common to many sorts

of scheming individuals---half their fun is in making sure people DO find out what they are

doing.

 

Even the way he fainted was different to anyone I'd ever seen, ha haaa! It's like he froze

in his tracks and then just keeled over.

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

 

> Wendy you brought up precisely what I was going to mention---his need to have someone

> know what he had "accomplished". He had a clear streak of "meglomania" in him---he believed

> he was infinitely cleverer than anyone else (which wasn't too far from the truth) and his ego

> had to have that acknowleged. Didn't he even mention something about the newpapers---I seem

> to recall he wanted them to write about him. This is a character trait common to many sorts

> of scheming individuals---half their fun is in making sure people DO find out what they are

> doing.

> Even the way he fainted was different to anyone I'd ever seen, ha haaa! It's like he froze

> in his tracks and then just keeled over.

 

*Another SPOILER*

 

The thing that's amazing to me about Montgomery's performance is that we are taken for the same ride that Roz/Olivia is on.... I was totally enraptured by him. Even though I knew he was the killer, his fainting spell had me wanting to "mother" him, just like Dame May. Weird. So Montgomery is not only playing to the people IN the film, he is also wooing us - the audience, at the same time. And he was preternaturally good at it. He probably got a lot of women that way in real life....

 

I find it hard to reconcile this Robert Montgomery with the one who played Brick in TWE.....it's like he was a completely different person. I know, I know. It's called ACTING

[MissGoddess]

SPOILED ROTTEN!

 

Yes! Danny sure played me like a violin. I think it may be

the only time I have ever felt attracted to a serial killer, ha!!

 

You can see yet another side of Bobby in the movie Ride the Pink Horse.

This time he's a WWII vet who's surly, cynical and misanthropic.

 

Let's see: comic playboy and dilettante, New Yawk boxer, Irish serial killer,

Chicago gangster, stalwart military commander, disaffected veteran as well as

successful director, presidential speech writer and television producer.

Quite a parley for a former silver spoon boy from upstate!

 

Oh, and father of a beautiful and talented star in her own right. Perhaps his

greatest accomplishment of all.

[rohanaka]

I find it hard to reconcile this Robert Montgomery with the one who played Brick in TWE.....it's like he was a completely different person. I know, I know. It's called ACTING

 

Ha. Miss Favell, you are so right... it is like they are polar opposites... Danny is only interested in what he wants for himself.. and of course Brick is after the common good in almost every moment we see him on screen.

 

It is really interesting getting to see NMF from a modern perspective... We get to see movies and even news reports about all the "clever young" psychos who are out there being made "famous" by the inner workings of their twisted and dangerous minds almost as a regular thing in the society we live in now... But I imagine in the day and age this film was made... it was WAY more shocking to see someone so cleverly insane and evil.

 

YET... even as jaded as we (or at least I) sometimes may feel about the latest homicidal nutjob movie... THIS one is far superior to many if not most of the modern day films I have seen or heard of. He really does draw you in a bit along with all the other "victims" he has in his site... (but Jackie.. I don't think I felt as Mom-ish toward him as you did.. Ha)

 

At one point he tells Roz something about how he is a "watcher". I think he really knew how to look for weakness and make it work for him. At the very least he knew how to give the people what they wanted... and I bet what he says at the end about putting on a show during his trial was no exaggeration. Wouldn't you like to have been in that courtroom? Now THAT could be a whole other movie in itself.

[texanna]

oooooh everybody seems to be talking about 'night must fall', i must make sure to watch it soon, i just taped it yesterday but didn't get around to watching it. but like most eveyone here, i'll watch ANYTHING with Roz, she's super talented and a joy to watch, always!

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=rohanaka wrote:}{quote}

>But I imagine in the day and age this film was made... it was WAY more shocking to see someone so cleverly insane and evil.

 

I agree. And if you think about watching it on a BIG screen, it would have been so much scarier!

 

> YET... even as jaded as we (or at least I) sometimes may feel about the latest homicidal nutjob movie... THIS one is far superior to many if not most of the modern day films I have seen or heard of. He really does draw you in a bit along with all the other "victims" he has in his site... (but Jackie.. I don't think I felt as Mom-ish toward him as you did.. Ha)

 

I felt it went far deeper than any other movie of its type. To draw a parallel like that between the "good" female star and the "bad" killer was very brave for the time, and I would say even now if it were new it would be a bit of a shock. The twist of the story is that we all can identify with dear Danny. And the sexual tension and overtones were so overt for the time, I am wondering how audiences reacted back in 37. It is a pretty superior movie - for me to like that kind of creep out movie it has to be.

 

I wanted to bring up Mrs. Bramson's wheelchair for a moment. Do you think that they had her get up and walk so we would not feel as bad when she got killed? I mean, to show that Danny is sort of "right" when he talks about how two faced his victims are? It would be too awful for us to watch him murder a woman who was absolutely unable to get away.....and it also shows how lulled she was by him.... she basically let him kill her......and we sit and watch as he does it, fascinated. Man, I wish I had seen this when the voyeurism thread was going on.

 

>

> At one point he tells Roz something about how he is a "watcher". I think he really knew how to look for weakness and make it work for him. At the very least he knew how to give the people what they wanted... and I bet what he says at the end about putting on a show during his trial was no exaggeration. Wouldn't you like to have been in that courtroom? Now THAT could be a whole other movie in itself.

 

We are still interested in the mesmerizing Danny even after the movie is over.....

[rohanaka]

I wanted to bring up Mrs. Bramson's wheelchair for a moment. Do you think that they had her get up and walk so we would not feel as bad when she got killed? I mean, to show that Danny is sort of "right" when he talks about how two faced his victims are? It would be too awful for us to watch him murder a woman who was absolutely unable to get away.....and it also shows how lulled she was by him.... she basically let him kill her......and we sit and watch as he does it, fascinated

 

I think it may have been a part of the equation... I do think there is less sympathy for her plight in knowing how REALLY awful she was before she gets knocked off. (Sort of a deeper glimpse into ALL the ugly that was Mrs. But I think... even if she had truly been disabled... she displayed enough ugly for at least my satisfaction that she was not as "pitiful' a vicitm as she might have seemed. She seemed to DESERVE what she got... though I never really think anyone deserves to be MURDERED. Still... I don't mind seeing 'nasty folks" get their comeuppance.

 

I wonder... do you think he KNEW about her all along??? Even if he doesn't catch her walking around... do you think he knew she was faking? He seemed to know everything about her... But still.... I am not sure. He did not acknowledge either way if he wondered how she was on the couch... or even noticed or not that she'd gotten "from the chair to there". And HE put the chocolates on the mantle... be he never acknowledges that they somehow made it to the table.... I wonder if he knew... OR if he was so intent on doing her in... he just either didn't notice or didn't care.

[JackFavell]

> I wonder... do you think he KNEW about her all along??? Even if he doesn't catch her walking around... do you think he knew she was faking? He seemed to know everything about her... But still.... I am not sure. He did not acknowledge either way if he wondered how she was on the couch... or even noticed or not that she'd gotten "from the chair to there". And HE put the chocolates on the mantle... be he never acknowledges that they somehow made it to the table.... I wonder if he knew... OR if he was so intent on doing her in... he just either didn't notice or didn't care.

 

That's really interesting.... I think I have to go back and watch again.... Dora probably blabbed all about Mrs. Bramson to him before he ever got there......and he certainly kept his ears open, so even if Dora hadnot known, Cook would have most likely said something - because her vice was gossip!

 

Is it possible that he would not have killed her if she had been really sweet? I mean, he thought of himself as an avenger of sorts......or do you think he just couldn't help himself and eventually HAD to kill someone? Maybe he would have found something wrong in anyone, no matter how nice they were, because we all have our bad side. I think that is almost the point of the movie, that we all have a dark side.... and whether that comes out in faking an illness (like Mrs. Bramson), or in wanting what we don't have while stringing along a boyfriend (like Olivia), or in murder (like Danny) is anyone's guess....

[MissGoddess]

A SPOILING WE WILL GO....

 

Golly, I really will have to watch this movie again. You guys bring up several nuances I should

like to have in mind next time.

 

Wendy, I think you may be right about Dora spilling everything to Danny beforehand.

 

As for the character of Mrs. Bramson, or her lack thereof, maybe the playwright wanted

to really twist the whole concept of the "dear, sweet, white-haired old lady" being terrorized.

Not only is she NOT dear or sweet, she's vain and sadistic to her neice (Olivia is her neice,

right? Or just a paid companion?)

 

I believe Danny wanted the old lady's money but he was also probably just plain ol' psychotic

and "had" to kill. Look at the way he clutched at and kept that strange "memento" of his

last killing in the hatbox. Montgomery conveyed the sense of compulsion very well.

Or, as attorney "Paul Biegler" would say, "He had an irrisistible impulse!"

[rohanaka]

I only think he would kill for one of two reasons... to get back at someone he felt "owed him" something... OR... to keep from being found out. And the cook did at least imply early on that the old gal wasn't really an invalid... I still say it would have been a "fun" twist for him to have caught her stretching or dancing a jig or something earlier on in the film... He could have even made it a game and set her up by placing her chair a little further out from the bed or something... just to see what happened... when he came back in a room later.. Ok.. now I"M starting to sound "coniving" ha.

 

You are right though... we do all have our own little "things". I imagine he was just extremely clever about finding the advantage in any situation and playing it for all it was worth.

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=MissGoddess wrote:}{quote}

> A SPOILING WE WILL GO....

 

 

> As for the character of Mrs. Bramson, or her lack thereof, maybe the playwright wanted

> to really twist the whole concept of the "dear, sweet, white-haired old lady" being terrorized.

> Not only is she NOT dear or sweet, she's vain and sadistic to her neice (Olivia is her neice,

> right? Or just a paid companion?)

 

I think you are totally right here - the whole movie rings the changes on trite plot contrivances. Is that redundant?

 

> I believe Danny wanted the old lady's money but he was also probably just plain ol' psychotic

> and "had" to kill. Look at the way he clutched at and kept that strange "memento" of his

> last killing in the hatbox. Montgomery conveyed the sense of compulsion very well.

> Or, as attorney "Paul Biegler" would say, "He had an irrisistible impulse!"

 

Maybe killing helped him to blot out the "cold staring eyes" he saw in his head..... hee hee! I said "head".....

[MissGoddess]

Maybe killing helped him to blot out the "cold staring eyes" he saw in his head..... hee hee! I said "head".....

 

Now you see there, I had forgotten about that! I think I will watch this again this weekend.

 

With my doors securely locked!

[bansi4]

When I watch "NIGHT MUST FALL" I'm mesmerized by the performances of Robert Montgomery and Dame May Whitty. They both deserved their Oscar nominations.

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=rohanaka wrote:}{quote}

> I only think he would kill for one of two reasons... to get back at someone he felt "owed him" something... OR... to keep from being found out. And the cook did at least imply early on that the old gal wasn't really an invalid... I still say it would have been a "fun" twist for him to have caught her stretching or dancing a jig or something earlier on in the film... He could have even made it a game and set her up by placing her chair a little further out from the bed or something... just to see what happened... when he came back in a room later.. Ok.. now I"M starting to sound "coniving" ha.

 

In that scenario, Kathy, it could have also been something that brought him closer to her - if he let her know he knew - but wasn't going to tell..... just like the scene with Olivia and the price tag on the shawl.... it would be "their little secret"..... ewww. I'm starting to creep MYSELF out!

 

And you are as far from conniving as anyone I know.... but you sure are good at plotting out scenario's. Have you thought of going to Hollywood?

[JackFavell]

> {quote:title=mongo wrote:}{quote}

> When I watch "NIGHT MUST FALL" I'm mesmerized by the performances of Robert Montgomery and Dame May Whitty. They both deserved their Oscar nominations.

 

Hi, Mongo! Don't tell me that neither one even got a nomination..... ?

[route66]

> Don't tell me that neither one even got a nomination..... ?

 

No, I think he was simply pointing out that they both got nominated:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0029310/awards

[JackFavell]

ooops, It's getting late - I misread....

 

Nighty night, all.

[rohanaka]

if he let her know he knew - but wasn't going to tell..... just like the scene with Olivia and the price tag on the shawl.... it would be "their little secret"..... ewww. I'm starting to creep MYSELF out!

 

We should BOTH go to Hollywood. Ha.

 

And PS.. I am on SERIOUS creep out overload now.. After all this chat... and after watching this thing last night and the ending again this afternoon... I told the QT all about it how good a film it was... and then... we watched it again this evening!!!

 

The kidling came in from playing in her room just as one of us said something about "the head" and she said "What head?" and I said... "A head of lettuce is in that box"... and she looked at me like I had TWO heads and said in this dry little voice... "You're funny mom". HA!

 

After all this CREEPINESS I am going to go make a huge pot of coffee and find myself a baseball bat... I have a feeling every little leaf rustling in the wind is going to get my ear tonight!! April... If you stay up to watch this tonight... I'll be here for moral support! Ha!

 

(PSS.. I may NEVER be able to watch London at Night now. Ladies... what's the creep factor on that one compared to Night Must Fall??????????)

[MissGoddess]

After all this CREEPINESS I am going to go make a huge pot of coffee and find myself a baseball bat... I have a feeling every little leaf rustling in the wind is going to get my ear tonight!! April... If you stay up to watch this tonight... I'll be here for moral support! Ha!

 

Lol, I may need to call on you if I watch it tonight.

 

(PSS.. I may NEVER be able to watch London at Night now. Ladies... what's the creep factor on that one compared to Night Must Fall??????????)

 

Compared to NMF? Very low. It's even comical in spots. And Jonesy will protect you!

 

Although...George Murphy ALSO puts on an Irish accent...but no, he's not as creepy

as Bobby. Nor as cute.

[rohanaka]

Compared to NMF? Very low. It's even comical in spots. And Jonesy will protect you!

 

Whewww... I may be able to handle it then.. I could use a smile in the midst of all the death and mayhem...

 

but no, he's not as creepy as Bobby. Nor as cute.

 

Creepy and Cute... two words that defy all the laws of nature by having to be used in the same sentence in description of the same person. And yet.. both SPOT ON in the case of our sweet DannyBob for sure. :-)